Pad sensitivity test Part 2 (for finger drummers)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.พ. 2019
- Update Feb 2021 [kit.com no longer exists] /// New video and blog post with my latest gear recommendations: • What pad controller to... and questforgroove.com/gear-recom...
- The issue I mention with cc notes on the Boppad is no longer there so that's great!
- Keith McMillen informed me about The QuNeo's new MPE support (for example for use with Ableton Live 11). Might be interesting for more experimental ways of playing. For finger drumming the way I do on this channel (hitting multiple pads at the same time with the same hand) I still wouldn't recommend it.
Check out my up to date recommendations here (the blog is actually better than the kit.com page nowadays):
I tested:
- Ableton Push 2
- Novation Launchpad
- Novation Launchpad Pro
- Keith McMillen QuNeo
- Keith McMillen BopPad
- IK Multimedia iRig Pads
- Roger Linn Design Linnstrument
- Akai LPD8
- Korg Nanopad 2
- Arturia Beatstep
And compared with winners of last video:
- Maschine Mk3
- MPC Live
- Maschine Mikro mk3
- Presonus Atom - เพลง
Update Feb 2021: New video out with my latest gear recommendations: th-cam.com/video/yO27H_Cq7bM/w-d-xo.html and in this blog post: questforgroove.com/gear-recommendations/
- The issue I mention with cc notes on the Boppad is no longer there so that's great!
- Keith McMillen informed me about The QuNeo's upcoming new MPE support and MPE editor (for example for use with Ableton Live 11). Might be interesting for more experimental ways of playing. For finger drumming the way I do on this channel (hitting multiple pads at the same time with the same hand) I still wouldn't recommend it.
Thanks for this video! I’ve got a BopPad and was burned by the CC issue when I first got it as well. When I contacted KMI’s support at the time, they told me that getting the Note On out first (i.e. before any CC messages) was a top priority for them my only option was to use the Zones app, or MAX/pd, etc. which I found a little too fiddly. Can you say more about how you managed to resolve that issue?
@@arthurthefourth Hey Arthur, sorry missed this comment. I think I did a reset on all the sensitivity settings in the editor and then adjusted everything one by one, each time checking if the CC issue occurred. And it did not. No idea exactly what happened, but a reset worked. Maybe there was a firmware update too by the way, but I cannot remember.
@@robertmathijs No worries. I got in touch with KMI support in the meantime, and they said nothing in the firmware would have changed this behavior since I last contacted them. It's strange because it worked the way I wanted it to when I first got it, but started behaving differently the next day. I'll have to try your "reset everything" technique and report back. Thanks for replying!
This is a fantastic reference video. The ONLY video anywhere that gets into any description of the BobPad for starters. Excellent job and thank you for this.
Hello, I've found out your first review pt1 for finger drummer a few days ago. I love your truly review very well. Thank your for the pt2 also
thank you for this two videos. Really helps us!!
ATOM does not support changing the notes of every pad. You'll need to use midi learn to assign sounds to pads. More about this on my blog and in my beginner course.
Up to date recommendations: questforgroove.com/gear-recommendations/
So disappointing that the Atom doesn't support note change on each pad.... 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
I agree. I don't understand it because it seems like such an easy feature to implement.
Looks like you should just save up for the top products, as they are music production controllers and obviously much more capable devices vs the cheaper pads
Dang, just found your channel after I bought an mpd218 off of ebay last week. I wasn't lucky and got a pretty bad quality one, thankfully I can return it. I'll definitely be getting an atom or maschine mikro mk3! Thanks for the recommendations man, really really loving your channel. I want to see you play through more songs!
Launchpad x might be an option too by the way!
I'm inclined to agree with you homie! Even going back to the earliest of Roger Linn devices, it has always been about step sequencing rather than finger drumming (yes, I know Akai and Roger Linn designed the first MPC together, but I am referring to non-collaberation R.L devices). If you look at the OG Linn Drum machine, you can see that it was meant for sequencing rather than live drumming. You can even see this reflected in the design philosophy of the controller you have there. It's still a really cool device though, and I can see it has purpose. I would relate it closer to an Akai Fire than an MPC- a Fire can act as an MPC, but it's design is geared more towards FL's channel rack and step sequencer. If you don't use FL Studio, it may be a really good alternative to the Fire!
amazingly useful comparison. thankyou.
You're welcome!
thanks man. appreciate your insight
Great advice! I think I will start off with the PreSonus rather than the MPD218
Very helpfull video! Thanks !
Thanks for all those info! I would be really keen to get your opinion on the joué board!
Joue board has to fix its latency before it's good for finger drumming. Right now its 8ms which should be 2ms or 3ms or something.
Thanks for your honest review! Are you familiar with the Sensel Morph? I would be really interested in how it compares with the best, if you ever have a chance to test one out 🙂
I might in the future. Right now I know this: The sensel morph has a low latency mode that cannot be activated when using music production overlay (with 16 pads). With that overlay the latency is 7 ms or something which is too high! I let sensel know over a year ago but it seems they have not changed this as of yet...
I have the Push 2 and love that you can customize the pads to 64 and gives plenty of combos. But I miss the larger pads and was wanting to get a 4x4 with the larger pads. If I can afford, I like the idea of the stand alone MPC Live. Just in case my Ableton takes a dump.
The best Midi Drum Pad review (part 2)!
Best I've tried is the MPC X. Had it briefly and the pad sensitivity is similar to the Maschine MK3, but the material feels nicer. Has a texture to it that feels more reassuring than the purely smooth Maschine MK3. Obviously though, you don't spend that kind of money only for pad drumming.
BTW did you ever think of contacting Keith Mcmillen about the Boppad issue you described? As it was designed for use by drummers as well, it seems like something that should be addressed.
Thanks! Yeah I should actually talk to them and help them fix the issue. Bop pad is great in many ways.
Finally i had just bought a Launchpad pro MK3 ^^ I 'll say you how it is good for finger drumming since you don't have reviewed ;)
Hi! Your finger drumming technique is genius, Thank you for sharing it! I just got addicted to it! :-) Have you ever tried the M-Audio code series pads? Do you consider them much worse than maschine mikro mk3 for finger drumming? And what about the Sensel Morph with music production overlay? Thank you in advance for your opinions!
M audio I've never tried unfortunately but the sensel I did play and while it's a wonderful piece of tech it seems to have some problems with my technique which has a lot of hits with one hand that creates multiple pressure points at exactly the same time. The morph gets confused when that happens and inaccurately translates the velocity.
@@TheQuestforGroove great! Thank you!
Hey Matthijs, I'm really eager to start into finger drumming (also signed up on your website) but I kind of want to ask a few things first:
1) I have an Akai LPD18 but really like your 16 pad layout, should I skip learning on the LPD18 and buy a 16 pad device immediately?
2) My main setup will be based around a Synthstrom Deluge instead of a DAW. Considering I won't have any use for the DAW functions on the Presonus (or the Maschine for that matter), should I still try and hunt for a properly functioning Akai MPD218?
3) I like customizability and aftertouch, which are functions of the QuNeo. What do you think of the pad sensitivity of that device (regardless of price)?
4) For my setup I am also considering pads that are part of a keyboard, like the Akai MPK249 or the M-Audio Code49. Do you have any experience with those products / are you planning to review these?
P.S, Tof kanaal en ik hoop binnenkort een van je online courses te kunnen volgen ;)
Hey man thanks for the kind words! I'll answer your questions in a short and sweet way. Feel free to ask for details if you want.
1. I would get a 16 pad device. It doesnt have to be expensive and itll just be a better start overall.
2. I think for a budget device that will allow you to change notes, maybe even an old white korg pad kontrol would be a smart buy in your situation. That said, heard this rumor that controller editor might become available for the maschine mikro mk3. In which case the notes can be edited and in that case the mikro mk3 is the best budget midi controller out there by far. Problem is that I'm not sure this will happen. I heard people mention this from conversations on the NI forums.
3. The quneo really doesn't cut it in terms of pad responsiveness and sensitivity for the stuff that I play and teach. Sorry :-(
4. I've not yet encountered a keyboard with good pads. Neither did some people in the comments who tried. I might review some, but it's hard to know where to begin. Theres soooooo many models.
Ps super leuk om nog een nederlander aan boord te hebben:-)
Another great vid honestly,
I guess what lead to your channel,was the fact I was looking to an alternative to my drum kit At very small and intimate gigs,, but I really wanted something I could trigger a kick drum with my foot.. As I don't think I could develop that level of technic with my fingers in a short time span.
I actually have a mk 1 maschine,, back when I thought I was going to sequence stuff, but later discovered that , that wasn't for me,, I was going to buy something else for the job, but now I take it out of the closet and dust it off!!
But I have an older version of maschine on my old Uni body Mac ,, which also has had very little use in years.
Just wondering how it would go?
Yes making it sound natural is the challenge,,
Have ever tried jamming with another guitarist and bass player,, like actually doing a full gig ?
You should if you have not,, it would work seriously 👍👍
That Roger Linn looks interesting! Not so much for myself for a couple years, but always interested in out of the box thinking musical engineering! Did you make a video of that? I’ll go look :)
I use it in a couple of videos I think. The "Making an epic themesong" video, and the "Gameboy" song video from the top of my head.
Thank you for these nice videos! Have you ever played on a Roland Handsonic HPD20? If so, how does it compare to the square-pads devices?
No I haven't! It looks cool. Maybe I'll try it when I want to get into playing percussion some more.
Grabbed a white Korg padKontrol that popped up on Reverb.com for a very nice price. Really nice pads. Really easy to program. Thanks for the recommendation!
I have it to :) The best pads!
Thank you for the info. I’m looking at getting a Native Instruments Mashine in the near future. Maybe MK3 Micro or if I can rationalize the full sized MK3. I was thinking also of either a Roland TR8-s $729 or used TR8 $300. Or more likely first device the Native Instrumnets Mashine Jam for $300. Sort of a hybrid step sequencer pad? Have you used one? All of these devices are alien to me, but I have started to invest in the Native Instruments eco system with their M32 Keyboard (great for $129) and moved up to Komplete Select for the Summer Sale. What do you think of the Maschine Jam and Roland TR8/TR8’s? I can imagine having Jam or Roland TR8s and still have getting a Maschine MK3 since they get to similar places but through different means. Have you used them? Do you like them?
Hey Alex, unfortunately I haven't played the devices you mention. My guess is that since they're both meant for step sequencing that not a lot of attention will have been given to accurate pad sensitivity. This is a hard thing to get right even for controllers who actually are meant to be played with dynamics. This is just a guess though since I have not played the devices. Will put them on my list for maybe a future test!
I want to see a video of you putting a Launchpad Mini through it's paces. I got one and man it's rough!
very informative, thanks
You're welcome! Theres lots more on this channel and questforgroove.com if you're interested in finger drumming!
I’ve got a question about the Machine Mikro mk3 hoping you might have some insight on.
I was about to pull the trigger on buying this one, but I started reading more reviews about how it’s great with its proprietary software but severely lacking in anything other than 16 trigger pads in many other daws. Of course that’s what your reviews are about - finger drumming on 16 pads - so I wouldn’t expect any issues with ability to change/control parameters from the controller, but still .. it might make a break a deal if it can become that limiting when compared to other controllers. My concern is how well it will work with REASON, although it’s not a main concern... these reviews could be typical user end issues as well.
Hey, I think I sort of answered this in another thread you created, but just to be sure: The maschine mikro mk3 used to be an "incomplete" midi controller, but with the latest firmware updates and the latest version of "controller editor" you can just set it in midi mode and then change everry pad, every knob, every parameter. It'll be a fully functional midi device.
The Amazon returns department is going to busy again :) well done. Great summary. How well do you find your playing style adapts to the smaller pads on the launch and the push?
I like the bigger pads more but I think you can just get used to the smaller ones. You might need to set up some extra pads for the Tom's because two fingers in one pad becomes difficult. Other than that, not much of a problem!
I've got an AKAI LPD8 few years ago. I used to finger-drum on a table and whatever around, so I've bought it as a something cheap to try. But when I've tried, is was really no go. You'd need to hit pads hard to make any sound. So I've googled a bit, and found an suggestion to open it and add 2-3 layers of tape between the pad and the board. After like 20-30 tries, and after I've figured out that screws tension matters too, I've find out a way to tune it. It's now starts from a gentliest touch. Corners of pads had a bit less sensitivity, which is really useful for ghost notes. It even triggers when you drop it from like 3cm, or triggers hats when you hit kick really hard - which feels natural for the thing that make sound when you hit it.
Don't get me wrong - I don't advertise LPD8. I won't suggest to do the same exersice for everyone, 8 pads are not enought, knobs are useless, and tuning was a really frustrating experience. But it could be interesting for entusiasts short on budget. Probably it's a better way than ordering several MPDs and pick one. I can share more details if needed.
That's some great advice man, thank you! I hope it helps some people out :-)
I've been working on my Akai MPD218 tonight. Please do share more details -- I'm curious!
The new ones come with the MPC Thick Fat pads but mine was still having the issue of having to slam it as hard as I could with my fingers to get the sounds to trigger at 100%. Not good. It still double triggers, but oddly, it only seems to do that in Full Level mode. Moving on:
Currently I have 3 strips of tape on every pad, except for 2 strips on the ride and crash cymbals, which tend to be a bit louder on the samples I'm using. I may even go back to 1 strip for those pads. The nice thing with the tape method is you can customize which pads you want to be more sensitive, and even change the pattern that the tape is laid out on certain pads if you want to have less sensitive edges on some notes.
What's your method/pattern for taping? I'm curious. My Akai MPD218 has LEDs in the center of the pad, so I had to do two horizontal strips of tape above and below it. Originally I had vertical strips right in the middle, going over the LED. Not having the LED is not a huge deal, and that did give me access to those ghost notes you mentioned, as the edges are not as sensitive as the center. I liked that a lot and may go back to that
Of course things get a little more complicated when it comes to EQ'ing your actual drum sounds in whatever sampler you're using. I feel like setting up a pad controller is always going to be a balance between hardware and software.
But the tape method definitely goes a very long way in setting these things up. I was not happy with my MPD218 and got pretty upset, until I, like you, did some research and tried the tape method.
I'm still trying to dial in my setup on my MPD218, so I'd be very curious to know what other insights you have to offer.
Once I get good enough, perhaps I'll be able to justify buying a Push or a Maschine, and then I won't have to worry about stuff like this anymore. But I've only been playing a week, so for now, it's time to bust out the screwdrivers.
Goodness what a great video!!!! I hope I can do great content like this some day.
Thanks! Funny you should say that. I'm planning on doing a video about how my 'skills' in making videos have grown in 1 year (I started in January 2018). Its truly amazing what 1 year of consistent work can do. I want to motivate others to also give it a shot :-)
This might sound like I'm trolling, but for the past couple years my primary pads have been the Casio Trackformer. I've got an MPC Live & Touch, MPC4000, Tempest, Push 2 etc and a bunch of midi pad controllers. Every day I use the Casio Trackformer in MIDI mode hooked up to the MPC Live. On top of having my favorite feeling pads, it has 16 banks of pads! And standalone, whilst limited in samples that can be loaded in, it runs on AA batteries and has its own speaker - I'm not aware of anything else in the drum pad world with both of these features - or with so many banks available, but I would like to know of any others.
Hey man, this is not trolling at all. Very useful info actually! I looked up the casio tranckformer and it seems I can only buy a different model here in amsterdam that doesnt have 16 pads, but some sort of turntable ring.
But it sounds promising since you own all the other controllers and like the trackformer so much!
They are a very surprising little unit. People often sell these XW-PD1's second hand because on first use they seem like a toy that has all these bad design / UX problems - but put it in MIDI mode for finger drumming and they are awesome. I've brought 3 just because they've been so cheap - the most I've paid is $60AUD ($45US). That other product (the black turntable Trackformer thing) does, however, look like a very bad product!
Hey this is really helpful thanks a lot, if you ever have the chance to try the beatstep pro I would really like to see your opinión about it
I'm thinking about buying the beatstep pro for my synths. Would it make an okay finger drumming device for like vst drums?
I was interested to also hear about those devices you discarded from the start :) and how their sensitivity compares to the previous devices, but I get that the point of this video was to see whether your previous recommendations will change or not. I was recently able to compare Akai MPD218 (a bad one unfortunately) vs Quneo vs Irig Pads vs Maschine Mikro vs Maschine MK3. The Maschine MK3 indeed is the best there is so far (I haven't tested the Akai MPC Live yet though) and in my opinion the Maschine Mikro is not worth the money compared to the Irig Pads, even though the Irig Pads is a bit less sensitive. I was disappointed to see the difference between the MK3 pads and the Mikro one, what the hell? :) did not expect the difference to be so obvious. Quneo and Irig Pads are pretty good for finger drumming in my opinion. It is true, the plasticky feel of the Quneo pads take a while to get used to and yes, you need to hit the Irig Pads a bit harder, but I found the pads feel great and it takes little time to adjust to hitting them a bit harder. I have not yet tested the Presonus Atom, but from what I heard the pad notes layout can only be configured within Presonus Studio One DAW (can you please confirm? thanks!). Anyway, thanks for the video!
Thanks for your two cents! I actually don't seem to be able to change the notes on the Atom. Just like with the maschine mikro mk3 the device seems to be relying on a nice midi learn function inside the software it's controlling. It might be possible but it's obviously not one of it's core features because then it's hard to find. Maschine mk3 seems to have it all in terms of great pads and also flexibility in adjusting notes in controller editor.
All other devices either have crappy pads or they cannot be easily edited and will rely on the software drumkit to remap the notes. Honestly I think its ridiculous from both sides. That pad controllers notes cannot be edited is insane, but that drum software cannot be easily remapped is also insane. All controllers should have something like controller editor (maschine mk3) and all software should have midi learn (like addictive drums)
About the mikro mk3 vs Quneo and iRig... was it a mikro mk3 that you tested or an older model?
There might be something with quality control because honestly, both my QuNeo and iRig pads sucked. Just as hard as a crappy mpd218. Not only did I have to hit them hard, the pads responded differently. So the left top corner pad was more sensitive than the one next to it... I honestly did not like them. But maybe just like with mpd218 you have good ones and bad ones.
The mikro mk3 played great. Every pad was exactly as sensitive as every other pad... only a little less sensitive than the big mk3. But not that much. Just a great device for the money. I did go into maschine software in the beginning and set it to the most sensitive level... that might have been an issue maybe?
Thanks for sharing!
Oh and about the difference between the crappy devices:
- QuNeo and iRig pads felt about the same. Sort of like a very bad MPD218, 226
- From the small controllers I liked the Akai LPD8 the most. Arturia Beatstep and Korg Nanopad were a little worse, but it did not really make a big difference. I felt like they were all not sensitive enough for me to play anything I wanted to play. I had to do the David Haynes two finger style technique which works, but it's so much more difficult than playing on a nice sensitive pad controller with my own layout and my easy technique :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove Hey man, thanks for replying and telling me more about the other devices! About the Atom, I saw you recommend it as the best budget controller, but how do you use with your technique if you cannot change the notes? You have a custom pad layout, how do you recreate that on the Atom? I agree about the fact that it is ridiculous that in 2019 there are still controllers and software that don't allow full customization of the pad notes. About the Mikro, it was indeed a Mikro MK3 I tested, but it was in a music shop and I admit it might have been used a lot there, it was the showroom display model, but so was the big Maschine MK3 there, and the big one had flawless pads, they registered acurately 100% of my hits, even the softest repeated 32nd duration ghost notes. I also agree quality control might be an issue with several brands of controllers because it seems different people report different sensitivities with the same devices. Or maybe different playing styles require different pad sensitivities/finger strength and that may also contribute to the confusion? Who knows. All I know for me personally the Quneo feels almost as sensitive as the Maschine MK3, but because the pads are plasticky, I find the rubbery Irig Pads easier and more confortable to play, even if I have to hit them a bit harder to register the ghost notes. The fact that you say the Quneo and Irig Pads felt almost the same to you sounds like maybe indeed you had different quality products than mine. Also, that issue you mention, that the pads respond differently on the same device, I have not seen that personally on the models I tested, but I have heard other people say that about some controllers, the Akai MPD series in particular, so there is also that, you are right. I also agree about the David Haynes 2-finger technique that works even with crappier devices, but we shouldn't have to do that, right? We should have good quality controllers to use whatever technique we want with them. I personally use the Xpresspads mirrored technique and I need good sensitive pads for 4 fingers on each hand :) is that too much to ask for in 2019? Apparently it is! Hopefully TH-cam channels like yours will make finger drumming more known and controller manufacturers will step up their game and release better products for us. Have a nice day!
Thank you for your kind words! So, the way I set up something like the atom is to use Midi Learn ik addictive drums. I'm an addictive drums fanboy because of sound and usability. In Addictive drums, you just go to the mapping page, click on the kick, click learn, hit a pad on your controller and bam... the kick is now mapped to that pad. I can map any layout in 1 minute like that. Afterwards save it and you can recall any controller In 1 second.
I'm going to test out this plugin called note remapper which might be handy for other software that does not work that fast. That plugin should be able to 'route' the notes. That way you can turn note c into note d on the fly and remap your drums that way.
Still silly that we need to use hacks like that though...
@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks a lot for this tip, I didn't know I could do that in Addictive Drums :) looking forward to hearing more about the note remapper. Peace
Hi Rob, I hope everything is going well!
First at all, thank you so much for all this information, it is really amazing for us and personally I really appreciate your dedication. I have a suggestion, just if you can or if you want to make it, can you make a comparison (velocity, sensitivity) among Launchpad Pro, Ableton Push 2, Maschichine MK3 (bigger and Mikro), just if you can because I feel a bit curious to see something as the video that you did between AKAI MPD218 and the Maschine MK3 and I am looking for to move to a 64 pad controller for the Ableton's Drum Rack.
Thank you so much in advance, and thank you again for this video.
I wish you an amazing day and have fun with your new controllers!
I can rank them for you right now!
From least sensitive to most sensitive on a scale.
- Launchpad pro
-
- Maschine mikro mk3
- Ableton push 2
- Maschine mk3
So the launchpad is further away from the rest. Maschine is best, closely followed by push 2, closely followed by maschine mikro mk3.
@@TheQuestforGroove wow, that will be nice too! Okay go ahead :)
I did, TH-cam might hide the second part of the message!
@@TheQuestforGroove Ohhh yes, I just saw the complete comment. Wow I have to say a more money. I was expecting more from the Launchpad Pro at least less sensitive than the Push 2. but its okay.
Thank you so much, that is very helpful I will be waiting for your next video.!
Hi, great video. By the way, How would the MPC one fit in the list?
Its hard to get here in the Netherlands so I haven't played it, but my guess is it'll be close to the mpc live. But it has smaller pads!
Nice video. I have Maschine MK1, and it works for me. I also have the Maschine Jam, but I do not recomend it for finger drumming. I have been thinking over if I should upgrade to Maschine MK3, but I just don't feel the need to spend the money right now. I'll wait untill my MK1 dies on me. But you have given me some seriously great confindence on the PUSH2. If you say pads are almost as good as Maschine MK3, then I am sold. I was worried they might be too small, but I guess I have to get used to it. Was the size of the pads of the PUSH2 ever an issue? What software did you use it with? Because I think with maschine software, only using NI controllers make sense, since they seem to block certain functions, like note repeat and arppegiator.
Push 2 pads are small but not super small. I personally like to add one extra row to my 'normal' layout so that the stretch between my thumb and middle finger is the same when playing kick and hihat with one hand.
I would be happy stranded on a deserted island with push2. I could make it work and make some nice music with it.
I used the controller with addictive drums to test it but honestly, its built for ableton live and I think you actually get ableton live with the push so... yeah I would recommend using it with ableton live. Very powerful combo.
@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you so much for the reply. It is very nice to have the point of view of a good finger drummer about it. Cheers!
You ever played on the og Akais? I have maschine mk2 and mk3 also got Push and an mpc 500... Nothing beats my MPC2000xl though. Just wondering how you got on with the original tech if you've ever used it?
I started finger drumming when realistic sounding acoustic kits came out for the computer so I basically started with midi controllers instead of samplers! The mpc2000xl is a sampler right? My guess is I never played it because at the time I just wanted to play drums on the computer :-)
From the look of the BopPad I'd say it's possibly intended for drummers who use sticks - it very closely resembles the kind of rubber practice pads drummers often use. Or possibly it might be intended for people who use a more bongo-drum kind of hand drumming style..?
Yeah for both I guess!
Hi thanks for the comparison. Did you ever have the chance to test the pads in any of the Arturia's midi keyboards (Essentials line or the Minilab MkII)? They seem a bit stiff to me but I don't have that much experience with any other dedicated drum pad controllers. I wanted to know how they compare to the more budget controllers (for example MPD 218 or Presonus Atom etc) and if the difference is worth upgrading. (to be honest i think Arturia's keyboards are great but, for me at least, the drum pads are not suitable for serious use, because you need to hit them a bit hard. You can use them as buttons for DAW functions though so it's not that big of a deal).
Hey Bernard, I have not checked out those keyboards. I realised that testing pads on keyboards is opening up a huge amount of possibilities that I cannot really deal with, since I'm just one guy :-) So I decided to basically stick with just pad controllers and sometimes test a keyboard thing if the manufacturer sends it to me. I'm sorry I cannot be of more help.
Hey man! Loving this channel! Just went through a bunch of your videos. I was wondering if you’ve ever tried the Sensel Morph? It uses newer quantum dot tech, and you can swap out different pad layouts on it, even 3D print your own. Comes with Bluetooth too!
Hey, thanks Salik!
I have not tried the sensel morph for this reason:
They have a drum overlay that reduces the latency of the device to 2ms which would be acceptable for drumming. The problem is that their other overlays, including the music production overlay, do not reduce latency and keep it at 8ms or something.
For finger drumming that is too much latency. 8ms round trip would probably be too much already but 8ms from just the device, then going into the computer, into soundcard, and back to your ears would probably be more than 10ms which is just too much to comfortably play percussive sounds.
So if sensel fixes that with a firmware update or something I will order a morph and test it out. I told their customer support about this last year and they said they would look into it.
The Quest for Groove so I did the run around and there doesn’t seem to be any clarity on whether you can modify it for less latency. Oh well.
While I have your ear, I see how your channel is very heavily weighed towards velocity sensitive pads and the like, and I get the value proposition of finger drumming vs studio time or jamming/recording/mixing with a real kit. Or even for live performance. Have you ever thought of diversifying with a workflow for something like an SP404? They aren’t velocity sensitive and there are people using it for full on production, granted that it’s a lofi sound and more suited to certain genres as opposed to what you do which is more universal? Given how informative and approachable you’ve made everything here, and since there’s a significant overlap in the hip hop/beat music community with these controllers, have you considered doing a finger drumming for SP type samplers series? Complete with separate volumes on different pads to be able to have dynamics and the like, and the workflow for it?
I can’t help but think it would help people trying to learn the ropes for production on an SP and so on, and that sound isn’t going away any time soon. What’s more there’s a case to be made for something like the SP being your primary way to perform live shows since it’s unlikely to crash on you as often as say a laptop, and it’s much cheaper than say a maschine which doesn’t come with that characteristic sound.
I’d say there’s a similar case to be made for apps on the iPad, like beatmaker, but those are accessible enough that people should be able to follow your videos already and then change the velocity etc after the fact.
Yeah you make a good point. I could elaborate a bit on how to translate my way of playing to a mode fighter or an sp404. It should not be too hard actually since there are a lot of double pads already.
I’m gonna be the proud owner of an SP404SX come Monday. Do itttttttttt. Edit: Check this out th-cam.com/video/9EvybyCAZwA/w-d-xo.html
I have just received the Atom ! Thanks to your video ! i don't see how to change the Pad sensitivity but it's great out of the box ! Do you think it's interesting to order a MPD 232 or 226 to test ? or they are exactly like the MP218 in terms of Pad sensitivity ? A last question... i have a good opportunity to buy a fresh 2nd hand Mikro MK2. should i go for this MK2 Mikro and send back the Atom? In terms of DAW control the Atom seems to be better than the Mikro MK 3 and really mouse-less ! it's a really plus for me ! but the MK2 Mikro attracts me ! i don't know why.... lol maybe its style and its legendary maschine workflow.... (never tested...) ^^
I think right now the atom is just great value for money. I recently tested an mpd226 and it didn't even come close! A machine mikro mk2 might come close to the atom and the mikro mk3 is a little better than the atom.
If you like how the atom plays, just keep it. You can always switch a year from now or two years from now and then get the best thing available. There are new devices coming out constantly, just like with smartphones. So yeah... if you like the atom, just stick with that is my advice.
@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you again ! ;)
Thank you so much for these informative videos! I wonder what do you think about playing drums live through a MIDI keyboard? Do you think it can create as good results as playing a drum machine/pad?
I personally think that pads will give a little more of a 'percussive' feedback. Like tapping with your hands on the table and stuff like that, where a keyboard will have this "pressing down of a button" feel, which does feel less percussive to me. So I prefer pads, but I've seen people do some crazy drumming on a keyboard so it can be done for sure!
@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks a lot for sharing your opinion with me! You have such a great channel! If possible, can I also learn some of the examples/names you've seen with crazy drumming on a keyboard? Thank you!
@@Bati_ I do not remember a specific video. I just remember people sending me them sometimes to ask which one I like more :-)
How much have you *spent* on all this stuff?! :) Props to you for providing this service!
I spent quite a lot, but sometimes if I really dislike a device and know I will never use it I do return it to get my money back :-) So... yeah, I don't "eat" all my losses.
i asked this in your other video as well, but I was wondering how the Akai studio black fits in? Also how did you like the younger brother of the MK3, the micro?
I answered your question about the mpc studio black in the other vid just now! ** Mikro mk3 is a great buy. The pads are almost as sensitive as the big maschine. I'm also very pleased with the launchpad x by the way. 8x8 controller but probably the most sensitive pads I ever played!
did they ever fix that "one tap afterwards" thing on the bop-pad? Im glad I watched this video as that is a deal breaker! do you have any recommendations for me on this one - I love love love my hand sonic for multiple 3 finger fast taps per pad but id like something more portable. The Roli block was promising but doesn't have the dynamic range velocity wise. Id like some large pads but in a compact unit if you can think of anything? I have the atom which is great but the fact that when holding down a pad and not allowing other strikes to send midi data is a deal breaker for the way I use my 3 fingers to roll a quick 16th hit (or whatever the word is for that)
I tested another Boppad a month or two ago and the issue I describe in the video could not be reproduced. So I have no idea what happened but I would not talk about this issue if I recorded the video today.
Thanks a lot for the reviews. Great job. What I am looking for is pad controller with din-Midi (ie old school midi) so that I can hook it up with my drum modules / drum machines. I have the Machine Studio, but its footprint is too large.
So, which SMALL controller WITH 5pinMIDI-OUT would You recommend?
For a 4x4 controller I would actually say try to get a korg pad kontrol (preferably an old white one)
Other idea would be to find some sort of usb to midi din converter box that can also power the device. That way you can just get any controller with midi.
The launchpad pro actually has a midi out cable but its 8x8 and pretty big!
Hope this helps!
@@TheQuestforGroove Thx for the swift reply. I'm an oldschool musician, been working semi/fullpro with music (both live & studio) since 1983, so my studio is quite filled up with synths & drum machines. I am not a finger drummer specialist, so complex live finger drumming is not really my thing. My intention is to use a pad controller with at least 10pads connected mostly to a Vermona DRM1 mk3 (as it has 10 sounds mapped out). These days all my hw goes to a Sequentix Cirklon - so I can do different takes (ie no need to play all rythmic parts simoultaneously). For more feeling I've got a Nord Drum 3p (but that only has 6 pads and can not fully and easily control the Vermona).
Anyway. Thanks again for the reply. I'll get myself a Korg PadKontrol & a regular Beatstep (as I do not need the sequencer part due to Cirklon)
Hello, I just purchased an Arturia Beatstep to use mainly as a controller for NI Battery 4. I have never owned a drum machine type controller before. While I was impressed by the overall build quality (it had a nice heft to it), I was a bit surprised by the feel of the pads themselves. They seemed to have no "give", if you understand my meaning. I felt myself having to really hammer on the pads to trigger the sounds. I am considering returning the item and grabbing myself a Maschine Mikro mk3. My question is, how are the pads of the Beatstep as compared to other drum controllers in general? I expected them to have more of a button type feel. Instead, it was like finger tapping on the triggers of my E-Drums kit. Is it me, or the beatstep? Can I expect a different "feel" to the pads of the Mikro mk3? Any insight you could provide would be greatly appreciated, and thank you for the tutorial.
Hey Philip,
The conference between the pads of the beatstep and the maschine (mikro) is night and day. They're much much better on the maschine!
They're not buttons though! They will still feel like rubber pads. The only button thing that i know of is the midi fighter. This device has no velocity sensitivity though...
How can I change my sensitivity on my akai 226? Really nice video
On Maschine MK3, has anyone noticed that the velocity curve is very different in midi mode compared to regular? Both set to Linear. There is definitely a significant difference on mine. Also a very small difference in the curve on pad mode vs keyboard mode.
I personally only play in midi mode and I adjust the velocity curves inside addictive drums to give me te best response per sound.
But yeah... that's not what you asked. I have no idea! :-)
Have you tried the Launchpad Mini Mk3? If so, what were your thoughts? (I know it won't compare to any of the more expensive ones) Unfortunately, I'm in a country where I can't physically try gear before buying, so I need to rely on this kind of review before ordering internationally, and basically I'm stuck with whatever I get. Thanks for the videos! PD: I should specify, I will use the device to play realistic-sounding congas/Latin sounds (so I need different sounds of the same drum on different pads), and always realistic sort of drums.
The launchpad mini does not have velocity sensitivity. Its more like a real buttons that you can press. So you probably don't want that for any realistic sounding playing. The launchpad pro mk3 is the best 8x8 you can get right now.
@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you!!
You're welcome. I hope you find a good controller for your needs!
Hello (again :D), did you ever try novation mini mk2? And if yes, what do you think about it? Should I buy it if I want to play the launchpad?
Did not try mini. But if it's cheaper than the big mk2 my guess is that you just have to go for the launchpad pro.
The big mk2 pads were not sensitive enough for finger drumming, the pro was nice!
@@TheQuestforGroove thank you so much!!
Ha ha ha
I thought you tryed the IGOG app.
It has that Hi Hat features that likes you from that circled pad.
A quick question: do you see band's using Finger Drummers, beside Belafleck?
Hey i did try it, but its a little bit complicated to give solid advice on drumming via touchscreens. All phones are different and if I tell people to go and get IGOG it might work great for some people but it might have too much latency for other people. I think apps and mobile operating systems have to evolve some more before this can be done in a reliable way.
You seem to do a great job though... I cannot deny that! It just does not work for me and my ipad and samsung phone.
The only finger drummer that i see playing with band is David Haynes: th-cam.com/video/HozKqPtAFI8/w-d-xo.html
He plays a Korg Nanopad here I think.. which is crazy because korg nanopad has pretty bad pads... David just has an insane technique that makes it work.
@@TheQuestforGroove ,😀
i have a question about the linnstrument vs launchpadpro please. Have you played the launchpad in chromatic mode? Is the note layout the same as the linnstrument/deluge isomorphic row of 4ths? How playable for melodic leads is the launchpad? I know that scales don’t light up, only velocity & 1axis aftertouch on the lpPro... but it’s a 10th of the price! thanks for the very clear video..
Yeah it has the same layout in rows of 4.
The thing is, 8x8 pads is different from 8x25. It's more of a puzzle on the launchpad because you have not that much room to go up an down... that makes it a little less intuitive than linnstrument for me.
So... is the linnstrument 10 times as good? No... I would say its 5 times as good, so the launchpad pro is still a bargain for what you get :-)
Maybe get one and see if you like playing scales and chords on it. If you can make it work on launchpad, you can switch to linnstrument later on and you'll feel like you can fly! :-)
The Quest for Groove (i like my circuit for chords, and i’ve learnt some tunes/scales on the deluge so yep the lpPro might be a good fix.. but the linn looks like soo much fun!) thanks for your insight...
DOPE!! I needed this video!!
1. i was curious about the sensitivity of the LPD8 because i kind of need another mobile setup with my laptop.
2. i was curious about the sensitivity of the launchpad mk2 vs the launchpad pro also.
while you are correct about the sensitivity not being great on the launchpad mk2, i find it to have much better sensitivity then even my mpd26 with the thick pads and sensor pads added. i like 64 pads for auditioning sounds.
Thank you for your kind words!
I think the launchpad mk2 might have quality that differs a bit per device. Mine was pretty terrible... it makes sense though, having better quality control for the "pro" production line.
@@TheQuestforGroove also not sure if i mentioned i tested sensitivity side by side of my maschine mk3 and my alesis vi25 and they are very close with the mk3 having the slight edge. not really a finger drumming only instrument but in case anyone asks you... its great for someone who needs pads and a keyboard. but would love your take if you do a part 3 and need another machine to test. =)
I'll write it down!! Thank you!
Can the Presonus Atom just be used as a midi controller? I just want to use it to control Addictive Drums in Reaper. Thanks
Yes! But there's one weird thing where you cannot change the note values inside the atom. So you can only make a drum map by using midi learn inside addictive drums and not by changing the notes of the pads themselves in atom.
I just discovered your channel and your great free courses! Any advice for a pad controller optimized for iOS and usable with with Beatmaker 3 that doesn’t need external power? I love to work with just one usb cable connected to the lightning camera kit of my iPad or iPhone. It would be also very portable. Thanks
Thanks for the kind words! My guess is any class compliant pad controller with a lightning adapter should work. So the presonus atom for example. Maybe in you case just to be sure get an mpd218 since you can change the notes the pads send out.
The Quest for Groove thanks Robert, I think the notes are not a problem as Beatmaker 3 has midi learn and so you can map any phisical pad to any virtual pad. My only concern remains the power that sometimes is not enough for midi devices. Do you have a chance to test the Atom with an iPad or iPhone and make sure it doesn’t say “this device needs too much power”?
My quest for groove is also a quest for a sensitive controller and my Roli Lightpad M is not very good for drums so I guess I would be disappointed also with the MPD218 :)
My android phone powers the atom with no problems. Dont gave a lightning to USB connector so I have to wait before I can test that.
The Quest for Groove thanks so much! I will give it a try!
Thanks!
For somebody who doesn't want the Maschine software... I.e. are not after the workflow, but simply "pads" to control drums in their DAW with or some such, would you consider a used Maschine for that? Are the pads much better than something more basic? Personally, I'd like some really good pads, but I don't want a "music production device", just a bunch of pads with midi. I'm considering the used Korg PadKontrol for that reason, but I don't want to spend money on something I'll just replace shortly.
The Maschine pads are still my favourite. With the Maschine mikro mk3 in midi mode you mostly have pads and not much else and it's just better than the Pad Control so I'd still recommend it. If you're ok with smaller pads maybe the ESI Xjam is something for you.
So what pad would you buy if suddenly you had no pads and only had around 100$ or less to spend? A pad for jam out drum set type midi drumming
For $100 I would probably get a second hand white korg pad kontrol. And otherwise a launchkey mini mk3.
Thank you very much)
You're welcome!!
Can you please let me know your thoughts on the hercules p32 DJ for my first finger drumming and sequencing kit? Should I just go with mikro mk3 instead? Many thanks, nick
I haven't had the opportunity to play a Hercules p32 so I cant say anything about it. All I know is that from the devices I tested, the maschine mikro is a very good device!
@@TheQuestforGroove thanks a lot for the reply - much appreciated!
Can someone enlighten me about the pads' differences between the Quneo and the Atom, sensitivity wise?
Quneo has 4 "sub pads" on each pad apparently. But the atom is more sensitive. I think the 'problem' with the QuNeo becomes most obvious when I hit multiple pads at the same time with the same hand which is sort of the core of my finger drumming style. The controller seems to have problems accurately calculating the velocity of the hits in that situation.
Hello ! thank you for your videos ! can you say me which product come with the best bundle for hip hop sound (drum kit and synth).... ? don't know if i must go with the Atom bundle, the Mikro MK3 bundle, or the akai MPD226 bundle ( or akai Studio and its bundle) ?
I dont know that much about great hip hop sounds but my guess is mikro mk3. Maschine software has a lot of nice hip hop sounds.
Ok ! thank you ! @@TheQuestforGroove . And supa nice finger drumming on your previous videos ! and futur i think too ;)
You bet!
hey man, would you know if the Presonus Atom works well with something like Garageband or Logic? I'm sort of just starting out here 😅 but all I need right now is just to play drums with pads and record directly into the DAW, nothing too fancy I hope. I have a separate keyboard, so I won't be using any notes. I'm also open to any other budget range drum controller suggestions!
It will work! You just need to find a way to map the correct sounds to the correct pads. If you use a plugin like addictive drums in logic it will work for sure. I used it that way myself :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove addictive drums it is then! quick sidenote, I really appreciate how you seemingly go through each comment even though it's been well over a year lol, it helps a lot
Ah thanks! I do my best. This channel is not too 'popular' (yet) so I can actually reply to everything without it costing me too much time :-)
It's funny, in all of the comparison videos I see people talk about the choice being "budget buyer" or "entry level". Personally, I'm neither. I'm looking for the "best compact pad controller" for travel or pairing with other rigs in a live context. At any given point I may have 3-5 different rigs set up for shows, tours, travel or session work. Form factor, weight and reliability become very important. Finding small GREAT quality, reliable pads (at any price point) has been a ridiculously tedious quest. - Thanks for your reviews!
Ah happy to read this! Yes it's really hard to find a good one. Especially because the focus doesn't seem to be accuracy of the pads in a lot of cases and also apparently reviewers dont care because nobody talks about it :-) anyways, I can also recommend the new Launchpad X. A very nice 8x8 device!
Hi there. Could you pls explain the differences between velocity curves and which is yr optimum curve please? Also I thought you recommended the old style white korg padkontrol as best for budget buyers in last vid??
No not really. I used it to illustrate that sometimes the same type of device can have good versions and bad versions.
My old white korg pad control is a very nice device but the new black ones are not that good.
That said, right now you can get quality new devices for fair prices so buying used stuff is not what I would recommend. That's always a bit of a treasure hunt... if somebody dumped coffee on ther 6 years ago it won't be that great and you will never know until you receive it.
Thanks for reply. (which hasn't appeared fro some reason??) yr vids are v helpful.
Maybe refresh the page?
Hey, I just found your channel. It's great, thanks for sharing the knowledge.
I'm surprised you gave such a bad review to QuNeo. It broke my heart that was the first one you took out. I've had one for several years. Personally I think it's great for FD. Not to mention the flexibility it has as a MIDI controller, portability and beer proofability. I don't know many other equipments. I had a Midi Fighter 3D and a LaunchPad before. I had the opportunity to play a little with the Machine. Very good pads but I did not find anything exceptional compared to the QuNeo. I thought they were of the same rank but now I see that maybe not. I respect your opinion. I'll try to find another one to play and see if it's so good. Best.
Hello, thank you for your story! Sometimes devices go down in quality over the years. So they start out with good pads and then the manufacturer changes something that makes future devices less good.
So you might have a very good quneo.
That said, I give finger drumming lessons. I play a certain way that makes pretty advanced drum parts possible on a pad controller. I basically tested these devices for that.
The quneo is just not the device to buy if you want to learn my style of playing. That's all. It's not "bad" on all fronts. Beer proof is a good thing, just not something that I reward in this review.
Pad sensitivity and responsiveness only! :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove Hey, just an update. Long story short. I love my QuNeo but I felt it wasn't at the best yet. So recently I was playing with the parameters. Adjusting the sensitivity of the pads to the maximum and the threshold to the minimum with a Full Level velocity selected (other options don't work well), improves the experience a lot. Also remove x, y and pressure send data, can be confuse for some gears. Just in case you want to try. Cheers!
Hey! Thank you so much for the update and glad to hear you've improved your experience on the quneo. Have you seen my recent videos on the new launchpad X? That thing might be the best controller I ever played for only 200 bucks! So might be worth a try :-) cheers
@@TheQuestforGroove I just saw it. By the way, nice video, I like the quality of the image. About the LaunchPad X looks very good machine, but will it stand the test of beer? ... just kidding. It looks good equipment and versatile too. Novation makes very good gears, no doubt. I don't know if I would choose it for specific finger drumming, but it sure gives good service (the price is also very good). Personally I prefer the 4x4 layout. In fact lately I specialize only in the first line 4 pads: kick drum, snare, cymbals and crash. Simple but effective as the classic drummers hehe. Would be nice that some one make a more focus finger drumming gear, like the midi fighter but with rubber pads. Thanks again for sharing. Best!
@@TheQuestforGroove I'm curious if you used the Quneo with default settings only or also played around with the configuration settings?
Like, you can make the on/off threshold super low and it becomes extremely responsive. The default velocity curve table is quite low too so needs a bit more of a thump, but the profile can be changed across the pads to mirror Maschine/Korg feel instead of the default AKAI.
Just wondering because I thought the Quneo had excellent sensitivity... but now I'm thinking about buying a Launchpad X to experience what a good pad feels like!
And thanks for your content, really learned a lot from you :)
Hi! I have the chance of buying a virtually new Irig Pad at the price of the KorgNanopad, would you say it's a decent pad controller for a beginer? I'm mostly into keys but I want something to get some drums and clips going, thanks in advance!
I think the presonys atom is better and the maschind mikro mk3 is much, much better but they're both more expensive. If its all the money you have you can get the irig pads but its an "expensive" buy because you will want to switch to a better controller as soon as you can. If you resell the original pads for the same price as soon as you're ready to buy a better one it'll be fine obviously :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you for the detailed answer, that was really helpful!
@@TheQuestforGroove Does the iRig let you edit the notes assignments? That's kind of a big deal if it does.
@@AlekVila its too long ago that i tested it and because of the bad pads i didnt give it that much attention since it was unuseable to me anyways. Best way ro find out ua find the irig manual and search for "edit notes" and if tgeyvdont mention it anywhere in the manual you cannot do it.
get yourself a like, favorite and subscription buddy, you did all the work, we are so thankful.
You're welcome!!
And thanks for the love!
I discovered your channel and it's amazing, I'm starting all these music production and I want to start doing beatmaker but my budget is low I wanted to recommend me to start beats ..... I bought an audio keystation 49 and it is very complicated do beats, so I'm a little desperate I do not know which product is very efficient to start. Thank you and sorry for the inconvenience 🙏🙏
For my way of finger drumming a presonus atom is the best product to get on a budget. Still $150. If your budget is very low usually it's better to borrow something from a friend? An old maschine mikro mk3 might be laying around somewhere. That's a good one.
@@TheQuestforGroove Oh thank you friend for answering, although my problem is not the budget, I could make a good investment there, my problem is that my country is very expensive to bring these products the prices are so high, it would cost twice the product if I bought a mashine mikro Mk3, I wanted to know what cheap product I would recommend .... Sorry for the stress I'm giving you. Thanks
Ah right. The best budget controller is maschine mikro mk3. That's $250.
The best controller overall is the big maschine mk3, $600
Atom is also good for the money but not as good as the two above.
@@TheQuestforGroove Oh clear friend my problem is in my country it would cost twice the product I am from Ecuador, if I buy a MK3 $ 250 mashine mashine would cost me $ 500, I will see a way to buy it. Thanks friend
That sucks dude. Very annoying!
Is the new launchpad x as good as a maschine mk3 micro for finger drumming jazz etc
Yes! The smaller pads make playing more difficult but the sensitivity is great!
What's the best choice for hard hitting in cooperation with FL Studio? I was thinking about new MPD but... if the quality sux maybe it's a better idea to look for older MPD versions or Maschine MK1/2? Not considering MK3/MPC Live, I'm looking for second hand device but strong construction. I had PADKONTROL a couple of years ago - it was good :) maybe I'll buy it again. Thx 4 help ✌
I'd say a pad kontrol might be your best bet again! Maschine mikro mk3 is best value for money right now btw and has great midi functionality. So you can just use it in fl studio
@@TheQuestforGroove What do you think about Padkontrol vs old MPD18?
Just checked auctions and it's funny but used MPD18, even MPD218 is cheaper than Padkontrol 😁
I prefer the mpd218 (a good one) over the pad kontrol. I personally switched to the mpd218 from my pad kontrol before switching to maschine.
@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks for reply, I'll try to find old MPD in good condition, never had Akai pads before and want to try them, I don't use knobs/faders anyway. Greetings!
What's the rational behind the design flaw you mentioned for the Boppad? That seems like a glaring flaw that could easily not be there so I'm assuming there's some reason for it.
Yeah no idea. My guess is it has to do with the sensor and how it determines positions.
Feb 2021: I couldn't reproduce the error with a new Boppad I got. So my guess is it's fixed!
Great info. Hope these companies start sending you gear to review (and maybe give away).
i got 400-500euro im looking for a used push 2 hard to find for a good price - i could get a used machine mk3 or new Maschine Mikro/studio mk3 what would u recomend me, im a new finger drummer, and i use ableton to make music allready.
Im not sure if I replied already elsewhere (i think i did) but just to be sure: I would recommend a push 2 if you're a heavy ableton user. Otherwise i think I would just go for the maschine mikro mk3. It's almost as good as the big one now!
Can't agree with your dismissal of Beatstep. 16 user presets, 17 mappable encoders (one big one, 16 small ones)... 16 assignable pads (midi channel, note, or midi CC# momentary/toggle)... assignable play/stop buttons which can easily be assigned to transport in any DAW... for the money, it's hard to find a more useful pad controller. I think it's the underdog of ALL these pads. Bonus-- it's a pretty damn fun step-sequencer. But as a midi controller... it's pretty dope! :)
Yeah just to be clear: whenever I dismiss a controller its just because you cannot use it comfortably to do finger drumming the way I teach on this channel. I don't dismiss the controller because its a bad device over all. Its just not practical and comfortable for my type of playing. :-)
Do you have any experience with trigger finger of m-audio or mpd18? Because I found some of them at really cheap price and I am not sure to buy if presonus atom have a better sensetivity
The mpd18 needs a mod from mpc stuff is what i heard. Without it the pads are not that good. The m-audio trigger finger is not for sale anymore and actually wasnt available at anymore when I started finger drumming. So i dont think i can help you that well with this decision :-(
@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you anyway. I found a good second hand trigger finger for 50€ and I wasn't sure whether buy it or not...
It looks like a PreSonus Atom with a KOMPLETE KONTROL M32 bundled with Komplete 13 Select ($149 + $139) with Maschine Essentials and Abelton Live 10 Lite might be the best value and combo?
Sounds like a great package! The mikro mk3 does have much better pads though, so I always recommend spending extra if you have it. If not, this sounds like a lot of value for the money!
@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks for the info! I'll consider the mikro mk3 $100 more than what my budget wants. I use to own an MPC-1000 and I've heard it had better pads for some people. I don't remember them missing a hit and the sensitivity was fine for my style of drumming.
Thoughts on the Nord Drum 3?
Haven't played it! Looks like a more traditional drum computer to be played with sticks. Nord makes quality stuff so cannot imagine that it's bad :-) Pads are a little large for finger drumming from what I can see.
Hi... Currently launchpad x on sale at usd 150, same price with presonus atom. Which one do you think is better? I use studio one as my daw...
I still thing the X is better, even with studio one!
@@TheQuestforGroove oww. Okay.. I think I will order the X.... Thanks
How does the iRig Pad hold up in comparison to the Presonus Atom given the major setback the Atom has (the inability to assign notes to the pad)? You initially disqualified the iRig because you said the Atom was "a better value", but the fact that you *can* assign notes to the iRig's pads gives it a major advantage over it. I've read and seen some reviews noting the iRig's velocity sensitivity not being 100% great, but I don't know if these reviewers messed with the velocity curve and I have no way to demo one without buying it.
I tried all velocity curves and it really wasn't up to snuff... basically not useable for my way of playing. Maschine mikro mk3 now has the option to change notes for its midi mode as well with the controller editor software, and it's not that much more expensive and has wayyy better pads. So yeah... if you want to do some of the lessons on this channel and you want to not get frustrated, I would skip irig pads and try a maschine mikro mk3 then.
@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you for your insight! The $270 price tag is a bit rich for my blood (especially because I'm largely planning to use it strictly as a controller for other plugins) so I'm going to pick up a Korg Padkontrol, but on the off-chance I have some kind of setup issues and can't get it to work then the Mikro will be my 2nd choice for sure.
I am also interested in Zendrum ZIP, however it's very expensive and shipping takes a month or so. I had Zendrum ZAP2. It has the most sensitive pads I've ever tried playing on, including maschine mk3, however the curve seems to be very quick. (even though it's adjustable.)
Wow interesting. Is that one of those wooden things?
@@TheQuestforGroove Type of wood can be chosen. I had Zendrum ZAP with zebrawood, which had no crosstalk issues. It uses microphones under each pad, which makes it extremely sensitive. It senses the lightest touch when threshold is at around 0. More sensitive than Maschine mk3, however no pressure sensitivity. Each pad can be adjustable separately (curve, sentivity, midi channel, etc.) Pads are made of very hard material, which I like, but takes a little time to get use to. They are all hand made, which prolongs the shipping time. The controls are pretty easy to get use to, but the screen is extremely simple, without menus.
Ah wow yeah... I saw one of those things. I obviously would love to test one if they would send me one but honestly: It's a bit like testing a Ferrari. No normal person will buy one :-) That's why I have not tested the MPCX either... I borrowed the MPClive from a friend, otherwise I might not even have tested that one. Anything above $1000 will be off limits for 90% of my audience I think...
Why did you get rid of your Zap2???
The Quest for Groove I actually still have to it, but I messed up the power connection. It needs to be resoldered. That’s my fault. They are high quality units.
Yeah, my studio has a rule(s).. max. 150 Euro per piece of equipment. .. better below 100 or below 50 and broken.. since i can fix it..
I love my old stuff.. but biggest trouble is the drivers actually... if its a unit that needs a computer to work... could be problematic.. or you have to fiddle around with Win95 or such...😅
A question the Keith mcmillen is polyphone or not? so how can you compare it to the presonus atom? or you mean just the pad sensitivity?
What do you mean with Polyphone? The Keith mc millen has MPE capabilities and also has some other cool features like assigning 4 notes per pad in each corner. The problem is that it does not respond as reliably when drumming on it in my style. It 'drops' notes basically. So you hit a pad and it does not trigger. That's the most important thing to me so I cannot recommend it, no matter what other stuff it does.
@@TheQuestforGroove yeah i meant mpe not polyphonie sorry! ^^ ah okay ya thats all i wanted to know! thanks for your fast answer :))
Just a quick tip - if you're using Studio One as your DAW, do NOT get the Atom for finer drumming. It's an awful experience, and only 13 out of the 16 pads are available for use. Even if you map all the correct notes to the correct pads, it is still way too limited to use for finger drumming. With other DAWs or stand-alone drum plugs, it is ok.
Thanks for this! I had no idea.
@@TheQuestforGroove When using Atom with 3rd party plugins in Studio One, it goes into something called "keyboard mode", where only 1 octave is available to be played, while one pad is inactive, and 2 function as octave up/down buttons. Honestly, I had the mpd232 and it had the double note issue, now I got Atom and its hard to set up/use, and you have to use many silly workarounds for things that should not be an issue at all. I feel like the current cheap finger drumming controllers lineup is very poor and low quality. I saw some older Korg PadKontrols available, and I might try getting one.
I loved the feel of the Mpd pads, so I may try getting a few mpd 218s and hopefully find a decent one.
@@qkimat I'm pretty happy with the LaunchKey Mini Mk3 though it's not my main controller.
So the presonus device doesn’t work well for finger drumming with presonus recording software? Makes sense if it’s wanting to prioritize a layout it was built to control.
I was interested in buying the Atom to use with Studio One so after some googling i found this workaround/fix on the Presonus' site. Can anyone confirm if it's working?
"There is a workaround for this in Studio One.
- Make sure that track with the VST loaded into it is selected.
- Click on Edit at the bottom right hand of corner of the screen. This will bring up the midi event editor panel for the track.
- Click on the Drum Mode icon. It's the snare drum icon located directly below the Listen Tool icon in the editor's toolbar. This button, along with the Keyboard Mode button next to it, toggles both the keyboard roll layout in the editor window and the orientation of the ATOM's pads."
If you had to choose those small ones, what would it b? I only need it for some fun with drums so...
I think the akai lpd8!
The Quest for Groove i read that you cannot hear the ghost notes with akai lpd 8 is it true?
@@DeejayRach0 that depends. If you set your samples to full velocity only you will hear every ghost note really loud. When using a drum kit with multiple velocity layers you might not really hear them.
All of this stuff including Presonus Atom is tightly connected with specific software. I'm looking for something agnostic I can use with my iPad. Could you give any recommendations?
Roli blocks can be connected with ipad and has a dedicated app. That might be a good one to try.
That said, for playing and just churning out the midi data all the controllers I recommend are good. Also whe using other software. I use the presonus atom with cubase for example. Works fine.
@@TheQuestforGroove Thnks. Question is if I can change pads layout in Atom (it can be done in Quneo)? And you probably don't get any visual feedback out of device when used in other DAWs/Apps?
I would love to hear more about Roli then. What about its sensitivity. Programming layout (Or i've just missed sth).
Regarding Machine - I would love to only take pads out of this device ;)
- Roli lightpad block m sensitivity is not great. Its playable. Did a video recently called "creating a song with the odds stacked against me" in which I use it. All the pad controllers i recommend have better sensitivity though.
- You cannot change the notes on the atom or maschine mikro mk3. No visual feedback either. Very stupid limitation. I have no problems with this since I use midi learn inside my drum software to assign pads to sounds and not the other way around. But with something like EZ drummer this will suck. I truly do not understand why this cannot be done.
@@TheQuestforGroove can you use the masculine micro mk3 with an iPad
Have you reviewed the nektar aura??
Yup! th-cam.com/video/y_ofeNrOTwM/w-d-xo.html
@@TheQuestforGroove thanks, man! Had a mk2 and love the pads quality/sensitivity but didn't like the size of the big one. As soon as I heard you saying mk3 mikro pads are different than the regular version I stopped looking. I tried mpc live but the sensitivity sucks. 3 different units and all of them sucked. NI pads sensitivity are the best I have tried but If you say this aura pads are awesome then I'm going for it. Thanks so much!
I love atom. It's really good pad controller It's such a shame that lack of prestige killed it...
It used to be my main budget recommendation but that's the ESI Xjam now. The pads respond even better!
What about the M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro & Akai MPC Studio Black?
I'll add the Midi Fighter 3D too. I guess there is also a bunch of other DJ controllers that aren't dedicated pads for finger drumming but probably could be midi mapped to work. Reloop Neon, Numark Orbit, Pioneer DDJ-XP1, DDJSP1 DJS1000, Toraiz SP16, DJMS9, Rane 72, Native Instruments Traktor Kontrol range, etc
I'll write them down in case I do another big test!
I know that the original Mpc studio kinda sucked. The silver one. Pads were super unresponsive. I think the black improved this although I never played one.
hi, I found new korg pad kontrol in my country local store around 150, do you think should I get kord pad kontrol / presonus atom? thanks
The white korg pad kontrol is probably a little better than atom! If its a black one it might not be that good.
@@TheQuestforGroove ow... it is the black one... so.. atom is better?
In my experience those two come pretty close. The atom is less customizable though... I think you should get the cheapest of the two since they're so close.
@@TheQuestforGroove ok. thank you
How do you change sensitivity in the MK3?
I wrote extensive setup guides for many devices including the mk3. Please check out my 100% free beginner course! Setup guide link: (login first) - questforgroove.com/course/beginnercourse/device-specific-setup-guides/maschine-mikro-mk3/
You tossed out the format I was looking into because of my space requirements, but I'm wondering about the velocity tracking. I've seen demos of the Korg Nano Pad that show it clearly sucks. What about the AKAI 8 pad controller? By the way, I read in your blog that the Presonus ATOM doesn't let you edit the notes. That's just terrible drum VIs don't all agree on where to put their drum sounds.
The akai 8 pad is not good either. Right now the cheapest controller with actually good pads is the launchpad x... 64 pads(!!). Maschine mikro is also very nice, as are launchpad pro and nektar aura. Those cheaper devices and especially the small ones are more fir tapping out something simple but not nuch else.
@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks for your reply. Alas, I'm not sure I see a solution. I have limited space, and the nano/akai form factor looks ideal. I also really like the Korg Nano Studio assortment of controllers and feature set. I wonder if I can use those keys for finger drumming. I just use my synth weight keyboard right now for drums. I just don't want the pads to "miss" notes like I've seen in some videos of the Korg Nano Pad.
That sucks man. Sorry i dont have a better solution at the momeny.
@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks again!
My PUSH 2 does not feel sensitive enough, What are your pad settings?
The pads on my M-Audio Axiom 49 are much more sensitive.
I borrowed mine from a friend. Did not change the settings so honestly I dont know. I just plugged it in and it worked very well. I just used it as a midi controller with addictive drums, so I completely bypassed ableton. But I also played it at my friends place through ableton. Both methods were fine and the thing responded very well.
You should be able to change the sensitivity settings somewhere and the thing should then respond well. If not, ableton support should provide you with a new unit or fix yours. Because the pads should be good.
Thanks for the quick response.
What sensitivity / Threshhold settings do you recommend for finger drumming on the mpc live?
I set it a little above the lightest settings. If I put it all the way down to 1 it started triggering by itself. But one or 2 stops above that it was stable!
Thresold always to the minimum value then you decrease the sensibility, Mine is set to 1 and 4 on sensitivity so you need to pull hard for max value (not so hard) and the lightest touch is available ;) If you put threshold on max value you 'll see only the high value works not a soft touch; so thresshold on mini and decreasing the sensibility, because it's uncontrolable with too much sensitivity...
@@phosphore7991 ok thanks
@@frontbattles8090 you're welcome i hope my english was ok :p
Great guide, thanks. But having investigated a bit, it seems your favourites don't use standard midi over usb, so they can't be used with an iPad
I tried the launchpad pro with my ipad and that works actually. You do need to plug in the external power. My guess is that it will also work with the atom and the (mikro) mk3 as long as theyre set to midi mode and theres external power available. So far haven't found something good that works with iPad and no external power at all.
@@TheQuestforGroove thanks for the reply. Oh cool, if the Maschine mk3 mikro can be switched to be a class compliant midi device, that'd be ideal. It seems the larger models can't, but maybe the mikro is the solution
Yes its possible with newer firmware! Beware though. All of these devices have one annoying flaw in midi standalone mode. Did a video about it >> th-cam.com/video/vXICPd7UbVw/w-d-xo.html
@@TheQuestforGroove thanks again. Are there any of these devices that can change the midi channel on the fly without needing to launch some configuration software?
The old white pad kontrol can do this. Only available on Ebay and such, but if you get a good one that isn't used too much it's a great option.
What do you mean "the Mikro MK3 pads are less sensitive than the ones from the classic MK3"?? They are supposed to be exactly the same, i compared them in a shop.
Same size, same feel, but the big mk3 responded to softer hits where the mikro mk3 just ignored them. I tested 2 mikro's and I think they're at 90% of the big one. So if you want value for money, get a mikro because it's more than half the price for almost the same sensitivity.
And one more thing: for the difference to be noticeable the pads have to be set into most sensitive setting in maschine software settings! Otherwise no difference!
are mikro mk3's pads (sensivity) really better than atom ?
What about Korg PADKONTROL compared to them?
I compared them side by side and yes, I think the mikro mk3 responds better. Only problem with this way of testing is that NI might start to produce crappier maschine mk3s over time. That's what happened with the akai mpd218. But as far as I know the atom is good and the mikro mk3 is even better.
My old, white korg pad kontrol is somewhere in between the atom and the mikro mk3.
Note that the new, black pad kontrol models are not that good.
@@TheQuestforGroove I've red that black pad are not worse but come with very different sensivity settings out of the box and can be configured the same way. Do you think it's a myth?
@@przemekchoody495 I doubt it because as far as I know you can only set velocity curves not trigger sensitivity... I'd have to check though.
@@przemekchoody495 there is stuff online like this: www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26144&sid=97e3f9508a6332f99ba6fca8fca8b497
Where people complain about pads being inconsistent. I experienced this more with the black pad kontrol than the white. The white still has this problem but it seemed to be worse with the black one.
Oh wow... I found this little gem: this is about making the pad kontrol Less sensitive but it might be worth trying with the black one.
====
Pad calibration:
I have learned that the Factory has a hidden setup for calibrating the pads. It is currently set to the most sensitive/expressive because we feel that it plays the best in this setting. But it can be "de-sensitized" if desired.
So to try this do the following when powering on the PadKONTROL:
a. Current settings hold both the[VELOCITY]& [SCENE]keys
b. Slightly less hold both the [VELOCITY]& [MESSAGE]keys
c. Even less hold both the[VELOCITY]& [FIXED.VELOCITY]keys
d. Least sensitive hold both the [VELOCITY]& [PROG CHANGE]keys
These settings will be remembered with no other action taken.
Regards,
Jerry
have you heard of the zendrum?
Yeah I played one at the house of the man who makes them! Great guy, the zendrum feels nice and is very responsive but I wasnt 100% convinced about the latency it produces in order to translate the sounds into midi. If I had the money i would just order one and extensively test it but its custom made so... im a real bitch about latency. Starting st 4 ms i really hear it.
Could you review older Maschines? (Maschine MK2 and Maschine Mikro MK2, maybe also the Studio and Jam) It seems like older mikros have a much better feature set, what with standard MIDI and a proper screen. Also, the Maschine MK2 is cheaper than a Mikro MK3, despite being way more powerful. The only reason I'm getting a Mikro MK3 instead of buying a Maschine MK2 is because I'm not sure about the pads.
I would love to help you out with that but at the moment I'm not planning on doing that. It's too much of a hassle to get second hand units that are also good quality and not broken or anything here in the Netherlands. Somehow folks who are selling theirs sell them for over 200 euros and you cannot return a second hand item so I would have to invest like 600 euros just to do those reviews. :-(
@@TheQuestforGroove Alright, fair enough. Thanks for responding!
I'm applying for a cushy job in television so if I make the big bucks I'll just buy the units and help out out! :-)