Definitely option 2 for the bearings. Option 3 seems way too risky, option 4 gives the same levels of risk but with insane levels of expenditure even if nothing is damaged and I know you'd never be happy with option 1. Would it be possible to get the grease hot enough to be liquid without ruining it? Loving the aircraft anecdotes, please keep them coming!
I vote the same way --- same reasons too. If only you could jerry rig up a parts washer with a filter... with a solvent warmer, Id use diesel for high flashpoint, high detergent and while submerged would prevent flash rust
@@RotarySMP I mean, I get your position, but I bet that one of the supermarkets near you has one of those marketing gigs running where you collect those stickers, and if you get enough, you can buy stuff at a discount. Also, as you may have seen, I would prefer if you use an IV cannula instead of a metal syringe, as I really don't want you to scratch up your bearings, and maybe needing to replace them) (FYI that's the reason you'll see it as a single comment as well as part of a reply)
Stories like that 737 towing one are the reason I love checklists so much. Slightly different in the EMS world, but it doesn't matter how many times I've done something, I'll still go through a checklist for it
Option 2. you can easily run enough rounds of cleaning with solvent over a few days to make sure 100% all the old grease has gone and just do what you can with running them in once refilled....either in or out of the lathe.
Schaublin 125 manual says: 1) put the bearings in 111 trichloroethane for about 2 hours 2) in a new container with new/unused 111 trichloroethane, rinse (or flush? ) the bearings without moving the outer bearing race against the inner one. 3) give the clleaned bearings in a third container, filled with a mixture of 70% 111 trichloroethane and 30% KLÜBER ISOFLEX LDS 18 Special A. The diluted grease will soak into the smallest gap, when the 111 trichloroethane evaporates, a thin but equally distributed film of grease will remain in the bearings. ________ From the 1995 Schaublin 125 manual, available at passion usinages.
@@RotarySMP sure, just wondered about the "ohne dabei die Kugellagerringe nicht gegeneinander zu verdrehen" in the manual... So clening them seems to be critical. Don't know what to think about compressed air
@@georgcaminada3315They clean them unmounted, so the bearings are not rigid. Mine are staying mounted. I need the air to blow out the old grease and solvent.
Best disassembly background music ever. So relaxing. My vote which probably should be thrown out as I’m certainly not qualified is Option 1. Option 2 would be my second choice if I could vote twice. Now that you have a nice spindle puller and it didn’t look like it took too much time to remove once the dance was figured out, Option 1 has the least cons with the highest success of building a cool lathe that will produce high quality parts. Whatever you do, I’m sure it will be the right decision 👍👍😎👍👍
Yeah those welds came up great. I’ve been arch welding at work for few year but recently we upgraded to a mig and it’s great. It’s been great to be able to watch these videos thanks!
I've got the same machine ! Yours is probably slightly younger, and in a very good state compared to mine ! I retrofitted it 10 years ago . I'm impressed you seem to understand so easily how the machine is built . Thank you for the video .
@@RotarySMP There is a belt on the Y axis as on yours. And pinions on the X axis. My machine looks very similar to yours, but have unfortunately been damaged by the last owners. The X axis ballscrew has been pained by a too long screw, and I have not been able to remove the spindle as a notched nut is broken. But the machine runs, the turret works fine . I kept the steppers, the power supplies are always there , and the power amplification boards also ! I had to change the transistors on them, but kept the boards. I designed a very simple board to replace the old TTL boards which distribute the pulses to the amp boards. If you are interested I can share this with you, if you decide to not change completely the drivers of course. This machine is very reliable. All parts are beautifully made of hardened steel, really nice machine...
@@RotarySMP I choosed the option 1 : I kept the spindle as it was . It was in 2005. The machine has been running since , I use it professionally, but it does not run every day ( perhaps 3 to 4 hours a week) . As your machine seems in far better state than mine when I got it, and as I guess you will not use it 12 hours a day, it looks like your spindle would be able to run as it is for a very long time, perhaps decades of a hobbyist use. Be carefull to protect the spindle from dust during the time you think about it.
Love the stories. My Nkki Lauda story: I studied German in the summer of 1984 at the Uni in Vienna. The country was going nuts about the championship competition. I hadn't paid attention to Formula One before then growing up in the US but after that I started watching and following the races.
Loved that first French translation :-) As a few other have said, I would submerge the whole spindle assembly in diesel and move the bearings every now and then for a few days - that should remove the old grease completely. Then, to avoid contamination of the new grease with diesel, I would probably wash it with brake cleaner or similar, until it's completely dry. There are syringes for applying flux in electronics (SMD soldering) that are cheap and easy to find and should be adequate to apply the new lube deep into the bearings.
Carefully selecting the syringe and tip is a good advice. Depending on the viscosity of the grease, you can use an aforementioned plastic tip (used in industry and by dentists) instead of a thin needle. Or preheat the grease to lower its viscosity.
it's always funny to hear your aviation maintenance stories, great video, and give Nico a cookie for me. As far as the bearing options go, have you considered asking our french buddy about it? I'm personally an option 2 guy, but if I had someone who had designed the thing talking to me, I'd ask them what to do.
i vote for 2. Perhaps u could check out a big truck repair company for cleaning. They mostly have those big parts washing machines. We had one of those 5 digit expensive ones in my apprenticeship, they REALLY cleaned up everything.
I totally agree about the welding! I went and built the structure of my backyard deck out of 1/8" 1 x 2" steel with 3 x 3" steel posts. To date it's my favorite home reno project. In fact, my better 3/4 says that I did it jut so I could justify having bought a welder. Which, of course, is totally untrue. I don't need any justification to buy a tool. An excuse, certainly, but no justification :D
Pull a dab of the old grease out of the bearing and let it soak in solvent to check that the grease really dissolves without agitation. That way you know that soaking the whole spindle in solvent will clean it completely. Even in the hard to reach spots.
If you decide to clean and relube, just make sure the cleaning solution is compatible with the cage material. In the odd chance things go sideways and you end up needing some bearings, I have a few dozen sets of new old stock RHP spindle bearings I have been hoarding on the shelf. From rebuilding a few Hardinge spindles, a trick I picked up is using a 75-100 watt incandescent lightbulb to warm the headstock casting for a few hours before reinstalling. The heat given off expands the bores slightly making it more of a slip fit. Pressing and pulling on a new bearing stack always makes me nervous.
My employer used to have a site in Genk. It was not unusual for someone to book travel from the UK to Ghent and then wonder why they couldn't find the plant.
@@neonalon Speaking from Australia, My boss booked for a job in Canterbury Rd Canterbury, Victoria, unfortunatly we didn't check the state and i was sent to Canterbury Rd Canterbury, New South Wales, had to call the customer and postpone 2 weeks, then drive 10 hours to do the job anyway
@@stuartlaing4544 Oh, there were so many Anthem screw-ups when Germany was still divided into two. It all happened: Sing the first two verses of the West-German anthem (while not forbidden, those are NEVER sung), playing the West-German anthem for the West-German Delegation, you name it
The more videos of yours I watch, the more you sound like the rock dude off Taika Waititi's first Thor movie. Uncanny. Loving the videos, so jealous of the machine availability over there.
Regarding the bearings: I think option two is the best as well. You have more than enough time to let the spindle soak in solvent, and you can run it in for days, as it is CNC. But if I may ask for one thing: Don't use syringe needles, use infusion cannulas. They also have a metal thingy so that you can get it through the skin, but you can pull it out. That way, you don't scratch bearing surfaces with the needle, and if you pull out only a bit, you still have a rigid canulla that can push against stuff
Option 5: Heat 5 liter engine oil to 100C, wash out the bearings in it, heat up the bearings and pack them with grease. When grease is hot it flows into hard to reach places. Use gravity as your advantage.
"What did you do at your first day of work honey?" "Oh, not much. I just nearly destroyed several millions dollars worth of aircraft." "What?!?" "Well, you know how brakes in old cars are sometimes a bit spongy."
Had to face the same spindle issue on a Weiler lathe some days ago. I gave the whole spindle cartridge several hours in the ultrasonic cleaner at around 60°C water with lot of dish soap. Came out nice and clean. Applied some NBU15. Runs really smooth now. Weiterhin noch alles Gute. Hab die Maho Story im Linuxcnc Forum schon damals verfolgt.
Like button smashed, thanks for the great content. I agree with you and everyone else, option 2 is the way to go. Worst case scenario is that you don't quite get all the old grease out and have some level of contamination. I could live with that.
Hi, very interesting restoration! Regarding the V marking on the bearings, that is usually to indicate the direction of trust in case of an angular contact bearing! Bye!
For angular contact spindle bearings I clean and repack them about 50% with Kluber Isoflex 15. You can buy it in small syringes that make packing in situ easy. My second job was working as a ramp agent at DTW, some of the things you see happening on the ramp boggle the mind. It's a wonder how air travel is as safe as it is when the ground crew can be so careless.
@@RotarySMP For removing the old grease I submerge the spindle in a plastic tub with PSC1000 parts cleaner (it's a low evap low flammability stoddard solvent) but fresh mineral spirits will work as well. Let it sit overnight, blow everything you can out with air, put it back in and rinse it, repeat until you no longer get grease being blown out. The solvent really gets in there without needing disassembly. If your seals are silicone you'll need to find another solvent solution, though, stoddard solvents will destroy them
@@forrestcarroll9350 I am not sure if you can get Stoddard here. I will start with Diesel for it's low volitility, and then switch to Schaublins recommended pure benzin once the worst is out. Need to get a fitting container. There are only two O-Rings and I need to replace them anyway.
Interesting tidbit about Nikki. I worked for TAG/McLaren as my first job out of college back in 1990. I never met Nikki, RIP, but I did have the opportunity to be sitting at my desk when lots of famous racing types were being given a tour of our facilities. I did interact with Ayrton Senna once at the company cafeteria as he opened the door for me and apologized for being in my way. It was only afterwards several steps on my way back to the office across the road did I realize who that was - RIP, I guess like Nikki he hoped in his jet right after "work" and never had to come to the "office" very often :) It was the coolest job ever. What I do now is wholly pedestrian.
I met Lauda a number of times. Mostly when I was managing the GE90', and we had an AOG, and he wanted to know when we would be back flying. The guy had an pretty amazing effect on everyone around him.
Schaeffler puplished the TPI 176 with loads of information about greasing bearings. Its written in German and I don't know whether it contains Information about removing old grease or not but at least its free.
That apprintist vice is Nice. I made one the first year aswell. I Will see if i can dig some of My old apprintist stuff out from the loft for a video. 😁
Good idea. We had to do this in "basic engineering". Three months of filing with blunt worn out files. After that we had 8 month aircaft mechanics course. The trade test peices there are more eviation sheet metal related.
#2 all days of the week. Soak the whole spindle in diesel for several days, rotate now and then and I am sure you will get out all old grease. Cheers Bengt
For the bearings! First a solvent wash with kerosene or anything you choose. Then soak with lots of Würth 2000 spray grease. Würth 2000 is a very thin liquid and very runny, at first acts like a solvent but after it gets dry, turns into very sticky grease, more sticky than regular grease. Sweep würth 2000 with high pressure air also mix solvent to air gun. Sticky würth 2000 will help collect all residue. It will be a very messy job.
Nice to see that your spindle came out without trouble. Mine was definitely not that easy. Personally I'd say option 2 would be the best for the circumstances, you get to keep the precision alignment but it'll just take time to clean out and re-pack.
@@RotarySMP yeah, but it seems like they're a good fit with that. One thing I don't remember seeing and would recommend is having a very stiff rubber mat on the ends of the arms of the puller you made for getting the spindle back into the headstock.
Love the apologies to Flanders, part of France :D (I actually live close to the French border, and there is a big part in the north of France called Frans-Vlaanderen / French-Flanders) Also great to see that Jean-Claude got to see this machine again.
When you look at the castings of the Schaublin you get an instant answer why the minilatha isn't rigid enough.Also the same applies for the prices.I think it's not fair to expect high quality from an item that costs X amount of money with an other that costs XXXX amount of money.Some times "polishing a turd" it's the only way when someone has a restricted budget.
Just change from the usual comments. When undoing a screw on chuck be careful. The voice of experience,learned at school 50+years ago, when you get to the end of the thread the chuck can drop and if your fingers are below it hurts . Apparently the last kid to do it fainted. Told to hold chuck from above and turn the shaft to unscrew so you are not caught out with fingers in the way. Never forgot that.😢
Already learned that lesson. I always lift enough from below to take the weight, so it doesnt drop on my fingers again. Looking forward to that camlock nose of the Schaublin.
looking at the situation, the grease in its current state it is not providing the lubrication that is desired, but the bearings are fine (no runout and no noise). So go for Option 2. Anything involving removing the bearings means that getting the bearing preload set to spec could end up be something that I don't think you want to take on. At the end of the day the old grease is not going to harm the bearing if there is a little bit left over. The new grease will distribute itself sufficiently with your plan.
Thanks a lot for the mention but I wonder how many are going to get the pun with "On-time Machining", but it gave me a chuckle. And red earth wires were actually standard, at least here in Sweden, up until the early seventies. Oscar from Off-Hours Engineering.
Thanks Oscar. Wonder if anyone will actually build it. It is not really the full chracter building experience without the blunt files, worn out hack saws, and dead drills though.
You're on the right track; but I would use a plastic injector needle for the new grease though not a metal one. I can imagine working a stainless steel needle around that second bearing and suddenly have the steel needle separate from the syringe and drop down in between the rollers. Murphy's Law it will always go to the most inaccessible place.
SMASHED that like button. Now I have a hole in my display :-( Option 2 gets my vote. Hopefully by the end of the series (episode 41...?) that name plate will be clean. 😉
As for your question, I would disassemble and lubricate (option 3), that way you are absolutely sure what is going on in there, perhaps you also find more gold.. XD I mean at best you have it lubed up. At worst it wont bust on you later if it is already busted somehow.. Less work is more work, that is what I learned.
I like your airplane stories, i have a few myself, and don't worry about the "torque multiplier" issue, especially when the bolt was installed 40+ years ago, they seem like they where born like that, some times you need the biggest rusty "torque multiplier" just to intimidate it into... "compliance" 😁
Thanks. You can tell that everyting on this lathe was originally installed with a torque wrench has never been undone. Sure beats working on a rusty old car. :)
I'd also suggest option 2, but my only concern is, as you said, any old grease not coming out of the bearings, would cause problems. If you can get a way of flushing the bearings with solvents at "high pressure", it might work.. Soaking the bearings, the whole spindle, would be ideal. I'd also not go down the route of option 4 as the current bearings look good. Once you have started clearing out the old grease you will be able to better tell how successful option 2 would be. once the exposed bearings are cleaner, you would be able to better judge how difficult it would be to get new grease into the un-exposed bearings. At this stage you might have to revisit option 3... It would also be safe to assume that the machine will not be seeing much heavy use, so you might be able to get away with sub-optimal re-greasing of the bearings. Oh, and I would suggest using plastic syringe needles instead of metal ones, to avoid marking any of the bearing surfaces while poking around in there.... I'd also hate to hear a metallic tube snapping off somewhere inside one of the bearings.. :) Regarding heating grease, I'm no expert here, but I think that might not be a good idea as it could break down the chemical structure of the grease, which could completely destroy the properties of the lubricant. Grease is designed to maintain it's structure within it's operating temperature range...
All good points. I will look for a plastic canister big enough to soak the whole spindle, and strt with diesel, finishing with minieral spirits. Also like you suggestion of a plastic needle. Have to look for something.
I agree option 2. I would suspect Schaublin intended that the bearings only went on once, if they need replacing you crack the races to get them off and press on new bearings.
@@RotarySMP Just watched the video back again and I realise I missed that point, as you said strange that they don't give any instructions for removal.
Option 2 for sure! Loving the channel by the way, got hooked after the Mini Lathe CNC build series. Ever thought of investing in a descent TIG welder?! Everytime I see the stickwelder, I die a little inside... 😉
I'd definitely choose either option 2 or 4. When pulling off the bearings replacing them would be the safest thing to do. However, I would contact someone like Ruemema and ask how he would proceed. If you choose option 2 make sure to use a solvent that is compatible with the bearing cage material (although that should be most :) ). And for the last few cycles use something that evaporates so there are no residues contaminating the new grease.
Good idea. I have diesel, and was thinking of using it for the initial cleaning, but moving to mineral spirits and then brake clean for the final clean sound like a good idea.
Removing the bearings won't (probably) screw up the preload as the preload isn't necessarily adjustable on those sets of angular contact ball bearings. They appear to be matched pairs that have correct preload when squeezed completely together. However, the bearings can get damaged while pulling them out.
That, and the fact that there is no good way to pull them except through the belt pully (rear) and labrynthe seal (FWD). I hve nightmares about that labrynthe seal going ping, and breaking.
I have been so confused at where you live even after watching so many of your videos. For some reason I thought you were in NZ, but a bunch of times I was caused to doubt myself... now I hear from your own words that you're in Austria :) Ahh well! A Kiwi in Austria? Or? LOL! Oh, and I pick (3) remove all the bearings, clean and reinstall :)
Kero melts wax, so there must be some solvent that melts dried grease. Then machine a L-shaped ring with a grease nipple that seals the open end of the bearing, and clamp it. Then pump grease under pressure through the bearing. Basically the same as those grease repacking kits you buy.
You dont really pack a spindle bearing like you would a wheel bearing. Spindle bearings are normally only filled about 25%. If you pack them, it will take a lot of run in till they will run without overheating.
I would inject a few drops of oil into the bearings and reassemble. Grease tends to dry out with age. I do this to all my bearings, Good enough for Australia. Thanks Dave
No need worrying about being wrong from time to time, that’s what we are here for, to make sure to point out your mistake 523 times in the comment section... 😂 I think if I ever had something interesting enough to make videos about, all I would have are comments about what I was doing wrong.
I'm a photography student trying to learn more about how to make things, an apprenticeship project with nothing but drills and a file that actually makes something useful seems like a perfect way to start! p.s. reminds me, I started watching because of your polaroid hacks, any more progress with those?
Sorry no. It is spring, and getting brighter, so I need to use it more often. I have some ideas for further hacks, but the Mini-Lathe and now Schaublin projects are consuming the time (and YT).
Mechanics pulled the c/b for the brakes (so the pump doesn't cycle while they were updating databases). This was after my initial checks and I was already inside waiting on passengers. Didn't even know they've been in the plane. Hopped in, overlooked the antiskid caution light amongst the others, "set" the brakes, fired up the 1st engine, looked up to find us rolling and the line guy waving his heart out to where the wands were a blur. Luckily nothing was in the way. About got me good on that one though. Leaving the dump valve manually closed was another good one too.
When you have to do up/undo fasteners on something that can spin try to keep the acting force on the implement used going through the centre of the rotation. That way your force will have zero torque about the centre. One simple way of achieving this is to point the lever of your tool (in your case the tail of that allen key) at the centre of rotation. You can undo flywheel bolts on engines, wheel nuts with the wheel up in the air, pretty much anything no matter how tight this way. Amazing you will say but Physics actually works. Regarding the bearings, why not put the whole thing in an ultrasonic bath and leave it there for a while? I would use some sort of liquid that doesn't dissolve the grease to take advantage of it being crusty already hence more likely to fall off. There is of course the opposite argument, use a solvent that can dissolve the grease so it will penetrate better in the ultrasonic bath. Maybe try option one first and then give it another session with a good solvent to finish it off.
Option 2 is the safest, but I'd be tempted to remove the bearings from the shaft with a puller, clean and inspect them, lubricate and then reinstall. But that's just me.
Excellent video again this week. Very much enjoying your Schaublin lathe journey. Would love to find one of those here in the States! Just curious about the spindle insertion once the bearings are clean and greased, have you thought of putting a mild preheat into the head casting to make the press slightly easier? Spindle bearings are sensitive to press loading. I am currently working on my Parker Majestic No. 2 surface grinder spindle and have found the bearings prefer preheat over “force”.
Yes, I will blow warm air through the head stock to warm it up. Given we only measured about 4µm interference, that is only about +4°C. In practice I will probably heat it up about 40°C. They should alomost fall in.
I would clean out the bearings, repack them, and then run it at slow speed to mix up the grease and then clean them out again. Maybe a couple more times.
@@RotarySMP Ultrasonic not a good option IMHO. I'd go with a solvent bath. Diesel is slow and messy but does the job. In a politically incorrect way Petrol will do the job faster and cleaner. As for re-lubrication perhaps you can rig up something like a traditional bearing greaser to inject the new grease. th-cam.com/video/VbRaFnbkrH0/w-d-xo.html
I wonder what Robin would recommend, he seems like a practical guy so would probably give a decent realistic answer. Option 2 seems worth a try, if it doesn't work then 3 or 4 would still be on the cards
Getting the preload just right is gonna be a right pain in the nads. Could make a bench thingy with V or U blocks the spindle sits in, with a belt drive to spin the thing very gingerly. I think I have a file of the book Rob Renz references in the spindle rebuild, I can send it to you if you like. Not sure where I have it though, I tend to put the super interesting books in a special place, and then immediately forget where that is.
Oh! I forgot, there's also this guy on here that does jet engine rebuilds, he surely knows his way around precision bearings. He probably has some ideas.
@@MF175mp I guess if you do a spindle repair for a customer, you have to warranty it. You have no incentive to try and rescue old bearings. The are considered consumables.
Watch out that Kluber doesn’t come into contact with mineral oil or grease. It turns into chewing gum. At least that’s happened to me on a couple of ballscrew and mill spindles. Love the vids.
20:05 Be glad that you even have a ground wire. My polish lathe from the 70s uses the neutral as ground. If something broke it could have 240V connected to the body with a transformer in series.
@@RotarySMP Not really an afternoon, because I have to buy a new 5 wire cable and with the COVID, I can't just go to a shop, then I will have to dive behind the lathe to rewire a few things, but I'll do it. Also, thanks for the idea with using the puller with the rod through the spindle bore. I recently changed the spindle bearings and had pound on it with a hammer like a caveman.
Great video and the nameplate stories are certainly a feature now. It's late here, but my Sunday is not complete without a dose of Rotary SMP (technically it's Monday already) Option 2 seems to be favourite at the time of writing. I see you intend a diesel soak to start off the cleaning, but I'm concerned that exotic Kluber grease might gum up and be harder to completely remove with regards to the mixing with mineral oil warnings. Perhaps test the method on a drop of the new stuff first? Good luck mate.
Option 2 seems best. How expensive would it be to create a vacuum setup to help pull out the old nasty grease, and to help pull your new grease down? Prolly would just need a pair of half-rings that have some silicone against the bearing and the shaft. (dunno if it would even go the extra inch towards helping you) Awesome episode, have a good one.
I think it should mostly disolve out with first a diesel bath, and then a petrol bath. With air blast in between. You dont need to get much grease back in. About 5g according to the spec. Precision spindle bearings are not "packed".
@@RotarySMP Oh, am only familiar with either packed or the ones with grease nipples. Have a good one m8, love your stuff, sorry i am a dummy, suggesting massive overkill.
Hey i live in Switzerland, and i would like to help you with the Tailstock. The problem at the time is i never shipd or Maild a package like this. And in which Country would it go?
Option 5. Actualy, it's option "0" from the manual :) Bit late unfortunatly. Trichloroethylene is not available any more (nothing to do with ozone, it's carcinogen). But... it is replaced with perchloroethylene (or tetrachloroethylene or tetrachloroethene, just different names for the same stuf). You know this specific smell you feel in chemical wardrobe cleaning shop? That is perchloroethylene. Usualy they will sold or even give you liter or two.
I would say option 2, or even option 1. I would not touch the integrity of that factory assembled block, specially without the detailed procedure specified by the manufacturer...
Although baiting belgians is a historically popular european pastime, it seldom ends well for all involved. I'd go with option 2, find the right solvent and flush 'em out. there's no good reason to break down a perfectly good assembly like that, it was assembled by some of the best people on the planet at that sort of thing, and it's still in great condition.
I am of the view if this is not a production machine, and you can get a safe and useable result with Option 2, then go that route. There will be other expenditure on this machine those saved funds will be better suited to.
Nice! I would go with option 2 too - messing something up on those is really easy. If you start with option 3 you might end up with option 4 easily. Going with option 1: That’s not an option :D and do me a favor: Don’t assemble and grease them in your basement, try to get everything as clean as possible. Robenz‘s machine shop was probably clean as it gets when he did it :) last: Watch out which solvent you are going to use, the bronze/ brass ball bearing carrier doesn’t like all of them.. this could bring you to option 4 again
FYI: for spindle bearings there are manufacturer instruction for the amount and distribution of the grease as well as the temp cycles.. the rpm is not too high so it shouldn’t be that crazy, for 10k rpm + such a cycle can take hours - as you said: time is not an issue :)
The recommendation is 4.6g in the 7011s and 5.4g in the 7013's. Kluber LDS 7013. My machine shop is clean. The garage is where all the dirt dusty grinding etc occurs. Thanks for you inputs.
I say, option 5 Put a vacuum bag over one side of bearings, seal it with tape on the bearing, and apply grease to other side and suck your way to your satisfaction.
I'd lean towards option #2 since as you say you have all the time in the world to dissolve out the old stuff. The only thing that gives me pause is whether you'd be able to lube the bearing further from the injection points. So I guess option 2. Option #3 would be preferable. I have a Brown and Sharpe grinder in my garage that I have all the paperwork for from 1962? I found a company that carries the bearings - they wanted $420 each for the two bearings which is almost as much as I paid for the grinder! It's funny, as soon as you mentioned lubing bearings ROBRENZ flashed into my head :)
Definitely option 2 for the bearings. Option 3 seems way too risky, option 4 gives the same levels of risk but with insane levels of expenditure even if nothing is damaged and I know you'd never be happy with option 1. Would it be possible to get the grease hot enough to be liquid without ruining it?
Loving the aircraft anecdotes, please keep them coming!
Thanks for your thoughts on that.
I vote the same way --- same reasons too. If only you could jerry rig up a parts washer with a filter... with a solvent warmer, Id use diesel for high flashpoint, high detergent and while submerged would prevent flash rust
Yep, 2 EDIT: Yeah, use those solder paste needles (not a stick in your skin type of needle) they come in various sized and fit a normal syringes end.
I say option 2 too. It's the option that can't make things worse, and should make them better.
Exactly the option 2 is the best from my point of view.
It is so cool that the original engineer also watches this stuff.
I was really happy to be contacted by him.
Maybe he can offer a way to grease the spindle bearings !!!
That is indeed a great coincidence.. :D
Very cool! I also ask about the "provenance" of my machines from the previous owners.
Haha yup thats soo cool
honestly it's amazing that the same guy that signed the little black book actually found your videos/pictures and commented
I agree. What were the odds!
love the wifey reading ... pure gold
She channels our #1 fan Nico well :)
I think she has finally forgiven him after what he did to her mixer. IIRC she didn't appear on video ever since that happened
@@vincentguttmann2231 Spring time brings good casting weather. Time to borrow the mixer again.
@@RotarySMP I mean, I get your position, but I bet that one of the supermarkets near you has one of those marketing gigs running where you collect those stickers, and if you get enough, you can buy stuff at a discount.
Also, as you may have seen, I would prefer if you use an IV cannula instead of a metal syringe, as I really don't want you to scratch up your bearings, and maybe needing to replace them)
(FYI that's the reason you'll see it as a single comment as well as part of a reply)
Stories like that 737 towing one are the reason I love checklists so much. Slightly different in the EMS world, but it doesn't matter how many times I've done something, I'll still go through a checklist for it
Yeah, our mistake was not checking what the young guy already knew, and not briefing him properly.
Option 2. you can easily run enough rounds of cleaning with solvent over a few days to make sure 100% all the old grease has gone and just do what you can with running them in once refilled....either in or out of the lathe.
Thanks, I am no hurry, so I can let solvents work.
Schaublin 125 manual says:
1) put the bearings in 111 trichloroethane for about 2 hours
2) in a new container with new/unused 111 trichloroethane, rinse (or flush? ) the bearings without moving the outer bearing race against the inner one.
3) give the clleaned bearings in a third container, filled with a mixture of 70% 111 trichloroethane and 30% KLÜBER ISOFLEX LDS 18 Special A. The diluted grease will soak into the smallest gap, when the 111 trichloroethane evaporates, a thin but equally distributed film of grease will remain in the bearings.
________
From the 1995 Schaublin 125 manual, available at passion usinages.
@@georgcaminada3315 I have the manual, but Trich is a banned ozone depletant, so that method is no longer a thing.
@@RotarySMP sure, just wondered about the "ohne dabei die Kugellagerringe nicht gegeneinander zu verdrehen" in the manual... So clening them seems to be critical. Don't know what to think about compressed air
@@georgcaminada3315They clean them unmounted, so the bearings are not rigid. Mine are staying mounted. I need the air to blow out the old grease and solvent.
"This old bench is a temporary solution", in my shop temporary solutions always become permanent lol.
Mine tend to as well. :)
Sounds a bit like a farmer ?
Fixing something temporary and saying he will get to it later, LOL.
@@weldmachine exactly, if the temporary fix doesn't break it becomes the permanent one
Five years is still later, so time never proves you wrong :)
That is so cool that Jean Claude saw this and reached out to you. Such a small world.
Really.
"smashed" the like button. I like this video alot. Amazing that the guy involved in building the machine is here watching. Got to love this community
Yeah, what were the odds of that. Very cool.
Nice video here 👌 Wish you luck with this rebuild and looking forward to a new video.
Cheers,
AS
Thanks. I have been a bit distracted with other pojects recently, but they are winding down, so I can get back to the Schaublin.
Love the new pipes! Go option 2, you’ve got the right grease. Options 3 & 4 are a can of worms!
Thanks for that vote of appreciation for my torque multiplier collection.
Yeah, I am not thrilled at the idea of pulling them off the spindle.
I came for the machine project, and am staying for the entertainment value!
Best,
Reuben
Thanks for the kind words.
Best disassembly background music ever. So relaxing. My vote which probably should be thrown out as I’m certainly not qualified is Option 1. Option 2 would be my second choice if I could vote twice. Now that you have a nice spindle puller and it didn’t look like it took too much time to remove once the dance was figured out, Option 1 has the least cons with the highest success of building a cool lathe that will produce high quality parts. Whatever you do, I’m sure it will be the right decision 👍👍😎👍👍
Thanks for the feedback.
Yeah those welds came up great. I’ve been arch welding at work for few year but recently we upgraded to a mig and it’s great. It’s been great to be able to watch these videos thanks!
I like Arc welding. Not sure why. That machine can also do TIG, but I never got around to getting a gas bottle for it.
Thanks for the feedback.
I've got the same machine ! Yours is probably slightly younger, and in a very good state compared to mine ! I retrofitted it 10 years ago . I'm impressed you seem to understand so easily how the machine is built . Thank you for the video .
Cool. They are really machines aren't they. Did yours have the belt driven axis or the geared drives?
@@RotarySMP There is a belt on the Y axis as on yours. And pinions on the X axis. My machine looks very similar to yours, but have unfortunately been damaged by the last owners. The X axis ballscrew has been pained by a too long screw, and I have not been able to remove the spindle as a notched nut is broken. But the machine runs, the turret works fine . I kept the steppers, the power supplies are always there , and the power amplification boards also ! I had to change the transistors on them, but kept the boards. I designed a very simple board to replace the old TTL boards which distribute the pulses to the amp boards. If you are interested I can share this with you, if you decide to not change completely the drivers of course. This machine is very reliable. All parts are beautifully made of hardened steel, really nice machine...
@@RotarySMP I choosed the option 1 : I kept the spindle as it was . It was in 2005. The machine has been running since , I use it professionally, but it does not run every day ( perhaps 3 to 4 hours a week) . As your machine seems in far better state than mine when I got it, and as I guess you will not use it 12 hours a day, it looks like your spindle would be able to run as it is for a very long time, perhaps decades of a hobbyist use. Be carefull to protect the spindle from dust during the time you think about it.
Love the stories. My Nkki Lauda story: I studied German in the summer of 1984 at the Uni in Vienna. The country was going nuts about the championship competition. I hadn't paid attention to Formula One before then growing up in the US but after that I started watching and following the races.
He sure was a hero over here. But even more so in Brazil. I was once there with he and a delegation, and the Brazilians went nuts over him.
Number 3, a result you can be even more proud of and good experience for all projects into the future!
It is tempting, but using the labrynth seal to press of the forward bearings worries me.
Loved that first French translation :-) As a few other have said, I would submerge the whole spindle assembly in diesel and move the bearings every now and then for a few days - that should remove the old grease completely. Then, to avoid contamination of the new grease with diesel, I would probably wash it with brake cleaner or similar, until it's completely dry. There are syringes for applying flux in electronics (SMD soldering) that are cheap and easy to find and should be adequate to apply the new lube deep into the bearings.
Thanks. That is pretty much exactly what I am coming to see as the plan.
@@RotarySMP Pleased to know you agree :-)
Carefully selecting the syringe and tip is a good advice. Depending on the viscosity of the grease, you can use an aforementioned plastic tip (used in industry and by dentists) instead of a thin needle. Or preheat the grease to lower its viscosity.
@@besenyeim Thanks. I wonder if my dentist has something like that. Then again it would probably cost me €1600 in dentistry to ask her.
Good to see your thought process. I’m pretty sure we’d all opt for option 2.
Seems to be the concensus. Thanks for your feedback.
Wow, so fun. I wish I was a machinist.
I am not one either. I just play one on the internet. :)
it's always funny to hear your aviation maintenance stories, great video, and give Nico a cookie for me. As far as the bearing options go, have you considered asking our french buddy about it? I'm personally an option 2 guy, but if I had someone who had designed the thing talking to me, I'd ask them what to do.
Jean Claude was from the electrical team.
i vote for 2. Perhaps u could check out a big truck repair company for cleaning. They mostly have those big parts washing machines. We had one of those 5 digit expensive ones in my apprenticeship, they REALLY cleaned up everything.
We have a huge tank like that in the Airforce. I threw in a whole bike frame and it came out clear of paint and grease.
24 seconds in and I like it already 👍
Enjoy.
Loving your videos mate, making me realize how drastically un-prepared I am to assemble my own spindle for my diy cnc; I think I'll buy one...
Thanks. There are some pretty nice 30 Taper ones on Aliexpress.
I totally agree about the welding! I went and built the structure of my backyard deck out of 1/8" 1 x 2" steel with 3 x 3" steel posts. To date it's my favorite home reno project. In fact, my better 3/4 says that I did it jut so I could justify having bought a welder. Which, of course, is totally untrue. I don't need any justification to buy a tool. An excuse, certainly, but no justification :D
I think ARC welding is underrated these days. Very cool.
Pull a dab of the old grease out of the bearing and let it soak in solvent to check that the grease really dissolves without agitation. That way you know that soaking the whole spindle in solvent will clean it completely. Even in the hard to reach spots.
Too late for that. It is already soaking. Would have been a good idea though.
very good job rotary SMP..thanks for your time
Thanks for watching as always.
If you decide to clean and relube, just make sure the cleaning solution is compatible with the cage material. In the odd chance things go sideways and you end up needing some bearings, I have a few dozen sets of new old stock RHP spindle bearings I have been hoarding on the shelf.
From rebuilding a few Hardinge spindles, a trick I picked up is using a 75-100 watt incandescent lightbulb to warm the headstock casting for a few hours before reinstalling. The heat given off expands the bores slightly making it more of a slip fit. Pressing and pulling on a new bearing stack always makes me nervous.
Thanks. Good idea on warming up the headstock casting. I will also be warming the tooth belt pulley before putting it back on. It was really tight.
My employer used to have a site in Genk. It was not unusual for someone to book travel from the UK to Ghent and then wonder why they couldn't find the plant.
I have heard of people heading for Oakland arriving at Auckland airport?
@@RotarySMP Austria - Australia? Would that have happened?
@@neonalon Speaking from Australia, My boss booked for a job in Canterbury Rd Canterbury, Victoria, unfortunatly we didn't check the state and i was sent to Canterbury Rd Canterbury, New South Wales, had to call the customer and postpone 2 weeks, then drive 10 hours to do the job anyway
@@neonalon First time Alan Jones won a Grand Prix for Williams in the late '70s the band struck up the Austrian Anthem
@@stuartlaing4544 Oh, there were so many Anthem screw-ups when Germany was still divided into two. It all happened: Sing the first two verses of the West-German anthem (while not forbidden, those are NEVER sung), playing the West-German anthem for the West-German Delegation, you name it
The more videos of yours I watch, the more you sound like the rock dude off Taika Waititi's first Thor movie. Uncanny. Loving the videos, so jealous of the machine availability over there.
Thanks. Guess that is our common kiwi accent.
Regarding the bearings: I think option two is the best as well. You have more than enough time to let the spindle soak in solvent, and you can run it in for days, as it is CNC.
But if I may ask for one thing: Don't use syringe needles, use infusion cannulas. They also have a metal thingy so that you can get it through the skin, but you can pull it out. That way, you don't scratch bearing surfaces with the needle, and if you pull out only a bit, you still have a rigid canulla that can push against stuff
Option 5: Heat 5 liter engine oil to 100C, wash out the bearings in it, heat up the bearings and pack them with grease. When grease is hot it flows into hard to reach places. Use gravity as your advantage.
Also a good idea.
The Synthetic Klüber grease should not get contaminated with engine oil !
@@taunusmechanics3121 The oil is easier to wash out with solvents like aceton, aceton also evaporate not contaminating the grease.
"What did you do at your first day of work honey?"
"Oh, not much. I just nearly destroyed several millions dollars worth of aircraft."
"What?!?"
"Well, you know how brakes in old cars are sometimes a bit spongy."
Why did Niki fire you?....Its complicated :)
Had to face the same spindle issue on a Weiler lathe some days ago.
I gave the whole spindle cartridge several hours in the ultrasonic cleaner at around 60°C water with lot of dish soap. Came out nice and clean. Applied some NBU15. Runs really smooth now.
Weiterhin noch alles Gute. Hab die Maho Story im Linuxcnc Forum schon damals verfolgt.
Thanks. I think I'll start by washing out the old grease in diesel.
Like button smashed, thanks for the great content. I agree with you and everyone else, option 2 is the way to go. Worst case scenario is that you don't quite get all the old grease out and have some level of contamination. I could live with that.
Good point. I am soaking, and blowing out the old grease
Hi, very interesting restoration!
Regarding the V marking on the bearings, that is usually to indicate the direction of trust in case of an angular contact bearing!
Bye!
Yeah, I forgot to mention that.
For angular contact spindle bearings I clean and repack them about 50% with Kluber Isoflex 15. You can buy it in small syringes that make packing in situ easy.
My second job was working as a ramp agent at DTW, some of the things you see happening on the ramp boggle the mind. It's a wonder how air travel is as safe as it is when the ground crew can be so careless.
Good point there. Schaublin specified Kluber LDS 18, so I will have to order some. The NBU 15 is used on the Maho.
@@RotarySMP For removing the old grease I submerge the spindle in a plastic tub with PSC1000 parts cleaner (it's a low evap low flammability stoddard solvent) but fresh mineral spirits will work as well. Let it sit overnight, blow everything you can out with air, put it back in and rinse it, repeat until you no longer get grease being blown out. The solvent really gets in there without needing disassembly. If your seals are silicone you'll need to find another solvent solution, though, stoddard solvents will destroy them
@@forrestcarroll9350 I am not sure if you can get Stoddard here. I will start with Diesel for it's low volitility, and then switch to Schaublins recommended pure benzin once the worst is out. Need to get a fitting container. There are only two O-Rings and I need to replace them anyway.
Interesting tidbit about Nikki. I worked for TAG/McLaren as my first job out of college back in 1990. I never met Nikki, RIP, but I did have the opportunity to be sitting at my desk when lots of famous racing types were being given a tour of our facilities. I did interact with Ayrton Senna once at the company cafeteria as he opened the door for me and apologized for being in my way. It was only afterwards several steps on my way back to the office across the road did I realize who that was - RIP, I guess like Nikki he hoped in his jet right after "work" and never had to come to the "office" very often :) It was the coolest job ever. What I do now is wholly pedestrian.
I met Lauda a number of times. Mostly when I was managing the GE90', and we had an AOG, and he wanted to know when we would be back flying. The guy had an pretty amazing effect on everyone around him.
Schaeffler puplished the TPI 176 with loads of information about greasing bearings. Its written in German and I don't know whether it contains Information about removing old grease or not but at least its free.
Thanks. I can read german.
That apprintist vice is Nice. I made one the first year aswell. I Will see if i can dig some of My old apprintist stuff out from the loft for a video. 😁
Good idea. We had to do this in "basic engineering". Three months of filing with blunt worn out files. After that we had 8 month aircaft mechanics course. The trade test peices there are more eviation sheet metal related.
#2 all days of the week. Soak the whole spindle in diesel for several days, rotate now and then and I am sure you will get out all old grease.
Cheers Bengt
I even have diesel on stock. Thanks.
@@RotarySMP One of my goto solution to degrease old parts, so far never let me down.
I would stick to Schaublin`s recommendation in the manual to use "Reinbenzin"
@@taunusmechanics3121 I will finish with that, but diesel is safer with its much lower flash point.
For the bearings! First a solvent wash with kerosene or anything you choose. Then soak with lots of Würth 2000 spray grease. Würth 2000 is a very thin liquid and very runny, at first acts like a solvent but after it gets dry, turns into very sticky grease, more sticky than regular grease. Sweep würth 2000 with high pressure air also mix solvent to air gun.
Sticky würth 2000 will help collect all residue. It will be a very messy job.
Thanks.
Nice to see that your spindle came out without trouble. Mine was definitely not that easy. Personally I'd say option 2 would be the best for the circumstances, you get to keep the precision alignment but it'll just take time to clean out and re-pack.
I was surprised how little interference there was on the outer races to housing. ~4µm rear and 1µm fwd.
@@RotarySMP yeah, but it seems like they're a good fit with that.
One thing I don't remember seeing and would recommend is having a very stiff rubber mat on the ends of the arms of the puller you made for getting the spindle back into the headstock.
@@cavemaneca Yeah. I though about putting some cushining under there.
@@RotarySMP also, if that's actually gold shavings it's probably worth saving. Though I'm not sure exactly how much was there.
Great video, thanks, hope you keep them coming!
Thanks for the feedback.
Love the apologies to Flanders, part of France :D
(I actually live close to the French border, and there is a big part in the north of France called Frans-Vlaanderen / French-Flanders)
Also great to see that Jean-Claude got to see this machine again.
;)
Need to get Nico involved in apologies more often.
Hello,
I can understand your logic for picking option 2. Pleased to see the Schaublin nameplate making a return appearance… See you next week…
Paul,,
Thanks Paul.
While I'd definitely go for option 2 myself, I would love to see the process of option 3 too, 1 and 4 are out of the question though.
Thanks.
When you look at the castings of the Schaublin you get an instant answer why the minilatha isn't rigid enough.Also the same applies for the prices.I think it's not fair to expect high quality from an item that costs X amount of money with an other that costs XXXX amount of money.Some times "polishing a turd" it's the only way when someone has a restricted budget.
You are right, but it helps to start with a rigid turd :)
@@RotarySMP I agree,but my wallet has thin walls.Not rigid enough to withstand the vibrations of a heavy...price lol
Just change from the usual comments. When undoing a screw on chuck be careful. The voice of experience,learned at school 50+years ago, when you get to the end of the thread the chuck can drop and if your fingers are below it hurts . Apparently the last kid to do it fainted. Told to hold chuck from above and turn the shaft to unscrew so you are not caught out with fingers in the way. Never forgot that.😢
Already learned that lesson. I always lift enough from below to take the weight, so it doesnt drop on my fingers again. Looking forward to that camlock nose of the Schaublin.
looking at the situation, the grease in its current state it is not providing the lubrication that is desired, but the bearings are fine (no runout and no noise).
So go for Option 2. Anything involving removing the bearings means that getting the bearing preload set to spec could end up be something that I don't think you want to take on.
At the end of the day the old grease is not going to harm the bearing if there is a little bit left over. The new grease will distribute itself sufficiently with your plan.
Thanks. Soaking out the old grease now.
Thanks a lot for the mention but I wonder how many are going to get the pun with "On-time Machining", but it gave me a chuckle.
And red earth wires were actually standard, at least here in Sweden, up until the early seventies.
Oscar from Off-Hours Engineering.
Thanks Oscar. Wonder if anyone will actually build it. It is not really the full chracter building experience without the blunt files, worn out hack saws, and dead drills though.
@@RotarySMP well there are a lot of weirdos out there, I'm sure some of them need to build their character a bit 😄.
WOW.
Beautiful Lathe.
It is in amazing condition considering it is 40 this year.
You're on the right track; but I would use a plastic injector needle for the new grease though not a metal one. I can imagine working a stainless steel needle around that second bearing and suddenly have the steel needle separate from the syringe and drop down in between the rollers. Murphy's Law it will always go to the most inaccessible place.
Good point. (bad pun) :)
SMASHED that like button. Now I have a hole in my display :-(
Option 2 gets my vote.
Hopefully by the end of the series (episode 41...?) that name plate will be clean. 😉
You and me both. That Swiss gunk is some tenacious stuff.
As for your question, I would disassemble and lubricate (option 3), that way you are absolutely sure what is going on in there, perhaps you also find more gold.. XD
I mean at best you have it lubed up.
At worst it wont bust on you later if it is already busted somehow..
Less work is more work, that is what I learned.
It is the pulling the bearings which worries me most.
@@RotarySMP I get your point and it is an absolutely valid one, however sooner or later you will have to.. better now when it is in pieces anyway.
@@RotarySMP these bearings can't be pulled down, they will be damaged for almost sure.
Number 2 for sure, thanks for sharing.
Tanks for your input.
I like your airplane stories, i have a few myself, and don't worry about the "torque multiplier" issue, especially when the bolt was installed 40+ years ago, they seem like they where born like that, some times you need the biggest rusty "torque multiplier" just to intimidate it into... "compliance" 😁
Thanks. You can tell that everyting on this lathe was originally installed with a torque wrench has never been undone. Sure beats working on a rusty old car. :)
I'd also suggest option 2, but my only concern is, as you said, any old grease not coming out of the bearings, would cause problems. If you can get a way of flushing the bearings with solvents at "high pressure", it might work.. Soaking the bearings, the whole spindle, would be ideal.
I'd also not go down the route of option 4 as the current bearings look good.
Once you have started clearing out the old grease you will be able to better tell how successful option 2 would be. once the exposed bearings are cleaner, you would be able to better judge how difficult it would be to get new grease into the un-exposed bearings.
At this stage you might have to revisit option 3...
It would also be safe to assume that the machine will not be seeing much heavy use, so you might be able to get away with sub-optimal re-greasing of the bearings.
Oh, and I would suggest using plastic syringe needles instead of metal ones, to avoid marking any of the bearing surfaces while poking around in there.... I'd also hate to hear a metallic tube snapping off somewhere inside one of the bearings.. :)
Regarding heating grease, I'm no expert here, but I think that might not be a good idea as it could break down the chemical structure of the grease, which could completely destroy the properties of the lubricant. Grease is designed to maintain it's structure within it's operating temperature range...
All good points. I will look for a plastic canister big enough to soak the whole spindle, and strt with diesel, finishing with minieral spirits. Also like you suggestion of a plastic needle. Have to look for something.
I agree option 2. I would suspect Schaublin intended that the bearings only went on once, if they need replacing you crack the races to get them off and press on new bearings.
Weird theat they recommend pulling them to relube them ever 5Y.
@@RotarySMP Just watched the video back again and I realise I missed that point, as you said strange that they don't give any instructions for removal.
Option 2 for sure!
Loving the channel by the way, got hooked after the Mini Lathe CNC build series.
Ever thought of investing in a descent TIG welder?! Everytime I see the stickwelder, I die a little inside... 😉
That welder can also TIG, but I never got around to getting a gas bottle. I like stick welding. Just switch on, set the amperage and go.
I vote for option 2. After watching An Engineers Findings, spindle preload scares me.
These should have the preload ground in, but stil...
I'd definitely choose either option 2 or 4. When pulling off the bearings replacing them would be the safest thing to do. However, I would contact someone like Ruemema and ask how he would proceed.
If you choose option 2 make sure to use a solvent that is compatible with the bearing cage material (although that should be most :) ). And for the last few cycles use something that evaporates so there are no residues contaminating the new grease.
Good idea. I have diesel, and was thinking of using it for the initial cleaning, but moving to mineral spirits and then brake clean for the final clean sound like a good idea.
Removing the bearings won't (probably) screw up the preload as the preload isn't necessarily adjustable on those sets of angular contact ball bearings. They appear to be matched pairs that have correct preload when squeezed completely together. However, the bearings can get damaged while pulling them out.
That, and the fact that there is no good way to pull them except through the belt pully (rear) and labrynthe seal (FWD). I hve nightmares about that labrynthe seal going ping, and breaking.
I have been so confused at where you live even after watching so many of your videos. For some reason I thought you were in NZ, but a bunch of times I was caused to doubt myself... now I hear from your own words that you're in Austria :) Ahh well! A Kiwi in Austria? Or? LOL! Oh, and I pick (3) remove all the bearings, clean and reinstall :)
Thanks. Yeah I have been here a couple of decades.
Kero melts wax, so there must be some solvent that melts dried grease. Then machine a L-shaped ring with a grease nipple that seals the open end of the bearing, and clamp it. Then pump grease under pressure through the bearing. Basically the same as those grease repacking kits you buy.
You dont really pack a spindle bearing like you would a wheel bearing. Spindle bearings are normally only filled about 25%. If you pack them, it will take a lot of run in till they will run without overheating.
Like button smashed, keep up the progress.
Thanks. Lets train that TH-cam algorythm to show Schaublin videos to all :)
I would inject a few drops of oil into the bearings and reassemble. Grease tends to dry out with age. I do this to all my bearings, Good enough for Australia. Thanks Dave
Thanks for that input. Kluber is a kind of weird grease (and super expensive) and seems to keep providing oil for years.
Not a good Idea !
The Klüber grease is based on synthetic oil and can possibly turn into a sticky mess with mineral oil.
@@taunusmechanics3121 Good point.
YES another video! :)
Thanks fo watching.
Flander is actually the Dutch speaking part of Belgium😉
I'll sort out Nico for that :)
No need worrying about being wrong from time to time, that’s what we are here for, to make sure to point out your mistake 523 times in the comment section... 😂 I think if I ever had something interesting enough to make videos about, all I would have are comments about what I was doing wrong.
Good call :) I asked for it!
I'm a photography student trying to learn more about how to make things, an apprenticeship project with nothing but drills and a file that actually makes something useful seems like a perfect way to start!
p.s. reminds me, I started watching because of your polaroid hacks, any more progress with those?
Sorry no. It is spring, and getting brighter, so I need to use it more often. I have some ideas for further hacks, but the Mini-Lathe and now Schaublin projects are consuming the time (and YT).
Mechanics pulled the c/b for the brakes (so the pump doesn't cycle while they were updating databases). This was after my initial checks and I was already inside waiting on passengers. Didn't even know they've been in the plane. Hopped in, overlooked the antiskid caution light amongst the others, "set" the brakes, fired up the 1st engine, looked up to find us rolling and the line guy waving his heart out to where the wands were a blur. Luckily nothing was in the way. About got me good on that one though. Leaving the dump valve manually closed was another good one too.
Auch. pulling C/B's like that can be deadly. a number of MD-80 flapless take offs attest to that.
When you have to do up/undo fasteners on something that can spin try to keep the acting force on the implement used going through the centre of the rotation. That way your force will have zero torque about the centre. One simple way of achieving this is to point the lever of your tool (in your case the tail of that allen key) at the centre of rotation. You can undo flywheel bolts on engines, wheel nuts with the wheel up in the air, pretty much anything no matter how tight this way. Amazing you will say but Physics actually works.
Regarding the bearings, why not put the whole thing in an ultrasonic bath and leave it there for a while? I would use some sort of liquid that doesn't dissolve the grease to take advantage of it being crusty already hence more likely to fall off. There is of course the opposite argument, use a solvent that can dissolve the grease so it will penetrate better in the ultrasonic bath. Maybe try option one first and then give it another session with a good solvent to finish it off.
Thanks.
Option 2 is the safest, but I'd be tempted to remove the bearings from the shaft with a puller, clean and inspect them, lubricate and then reinstall. But that's just me.
The Puller is the issue. I think you have to pull the front bearing with the Lab seal, and it is cast iron. I could see this going Ping!
Excellent video again this week. Very much enjoying your Schaublin lathe journey. Would love to find one of those here in the States! Just curious about the spindle insertion once the bearings are clean and greased, have you thought of putting a mild preheat into the head casting to make the press slightly easier? Spindle bearings are sensitive to press loading. I am currently working on my Parker Majestic No. 2 surface grinder spindle and have found the bearings prefer preheat over “force”.
Yes, I will blow warm air through the head stock to warm it up. Given we only measured about 4µm interference, that is only about +4°C. In practice I will probably heat it up about 40°C. They should alomost fall in.
I would clean out the bearings, repack them, and then run it at slow speed to mix up the grease and then clean them out again. Maybe a couple more times.
Probably a good idea. Wonder if I will still feel like doing that by the time I get drive to the spindle.
Option 2 but id clean it out in a hot ultrasonic tank that will get all the snot out. Have done this a few times with roller bearing crankshafts.
I read a long thread on PR about the risk to bearings from ultrasonics, and am cautious about that.
@@RotarySMP Ultrasonic not a good option IMHO. I'd go with a solvent bath. Diesel is slow and messy but does the job. In a politically incorrect way Petrol will do the job faster and cleaner. As for re-lubrication perhaps you can rig up something like a traditional bearing greaser to inject the new grease. th-cam.com/video/VbRaFnbkrH0/w-d-xo.html
@@RobB_VK6ES I have a canister of diesel for the furnace, so I think I'll start by soaking in it.
@@RotarySMP What's PR? (first guess is it's a typo from PM, but checking in case I'm missing out on something.)
@@rodfrey Oops you are right. Practical Machininist.
I wonder what Robin would recommend, he seems like a practical guy so would probably give a decent realistic answer. Option 2 seems worth a try, if it doesn't work then 3 or 4 would still be on the cards
That is also what am thinking. Not a lot to loose, but if it works, it is low risk.
That is also what am thinking. Not a lot to loose, but if it works, it is low risk.
I'm not sure if I missed a joke or something but we definitely do not speak French in Flanders. Flanders is the Dutch speaking half of Belgium.
This is what I got for listen to Nico, who's french. :)
Getting the preload just right is gonna be a right pain in the nads. Could make a bench thingy with V or U blocks the spindle sits in, with a belt drive to spin the thing very gingerly. I think I have a file of the book Rob Renz references in the spindle rebuild, I can send it to you if you like. Not sure where I have it though, I tend to put the super interesting books in a special place, and then immediately forget where that is.
Oh! I forgot, there's also this guy on here that does jet engine rebuilds, he surely knows his way around precision bearings. He probably has some ideas.
I decided not to pull the bearings. Just flush and relubricate.
I woud ask Robrenz - but I lean to #3.
Kudos to JC!
Robin being no cheapskate would probably be ordering brand new super precision angular contact bearings right away 😁 just my guess of course.
@@MF175mp I guess if you do a spindle repair for a customer, you have to warranty it. You have no incentive to try and rescue old bearings. The are considered consumables.
Ha, Vienna, one of the nicest towns of Germany if you ask me ;) :D
If you had said “Bavaria” it would have been right :-)
@@dermozart80 I like that!
Watch out that Kluber doesn’t come into contact with mineral oil or grease. It turns into chewing gum. At least that’s happened to me on a couple of ballscrew and mill spindles. Love the vids.
Thanks. Noted.
Isnt better Kluber LDS 18 Special A?
Happy to see a very good work, congratulations and thanks!
Yes you are right. I have ordered some.
20:05 Be glad that you even have a ground wire. My polish lathe from the 70s uses the neutral as ground. If something broke it could have 240V connected to the body with a transformer in series.
Scary.
@@RotarySMP Yeah, now that I think about It, I'll have to change it sometime, because it is really dangerous
@@kswiorek Go for it. Should only take an afternooon.
@@RotarySMP Not really an afternoon, because I have to buy a new 5 wire cable and with the COVID, I can't just go to a shop, then I will have to dive behind the lathe to rewire a few things, but I'll do it. Also, thanks for the idea with using the puller with the rod through the spindle bore. I recently changed the spindle bearings and had pound on it with a hammer like a caveman.
@@kswiorek Yeah, same here. I need to get some cleaning benzin from the hardware store. Closed due lockdown!
Great video and the nameplate stories are certainly a feature now. It's late here, but my Sunday is not complete without a dose of Rotary SMP (technically it's Monday already)
Option 2 seems to be favourite at the time of writing. I see you intend a diesel soak to start off the cleaning, but I'm concerned that exotic Kluber grease might gum up and be harder to completely remove with regards to the mixing with mineral oil warnings. Perhaps test the method on a drop of the new stuff first? Good luck mate.
Schaublin recommended cleaning out the old grease with Benzin, so I will use that.
3-phase motors: there is a 50% chance it will turn the right way and a 100% chance it will turn the wrong way...
I like that!!!
Option 2 seems best.
How expensive would it be to create a vacuum setup to help pull out the old nasty grease, and to help pull your new grease down?
Prolly would just need a pair of half-rings that have some silicone against the bearing and the shaft. (dunno if it would even go the extra inch towards helping you)
Awesome episode, have a good one.
I think it should mostly disolve out with first a diesel bath, and then a petrol bath. With air blast in between. You dont need to get much grease back in. About 5g according to the spec. Precision spindle bearings are not "packed".
@@RotarySMP Oh, am only familiar with either packed or the ones with grease nipples. Have a good one m8, love your stuff, sorry i am a dummy, suggesting massive overkill.
@@B0BBYL33J0RD4N Thanks for contributing.
Hey i live in Switzerland, and i would like to help you with the Tailstock. The problem at the time is i never shipd or Maild a package like this. And in which Country would it go?
Thanks for the offer Yamato. It will go to Vienna, Austria. Please drop me a mail (email address on the about page of my channel).
Option 5. Actualy, it's option "0" from the manual :)
Bit late unfortunatly.
Trichloroethylene is not available any more (nothing to do with ozone, it's carcinogen).
But... it is replaced with perchloroethylene (or tetrachloroethylene or tetrachloroethene, just different names for the same stuf).
You know this specific smell you feel in chemical wardrobe cleaning shop?
That is perchloroethylene.
Usualy they will sold or even give you liter or two.
Good to know. Thanks.
I would say option 2, or even option 1. I would not touch the integrity of that factory assembled block, specially without the detailed procedure specified by the manufacturer...
Thanks for your vote.
Old video but i have heated grease until its liquid, then just poured it inside bearings and whatnot that were othervise difficult to grease
Good idea. What temp did you heat it up to?
@@RotarySMP Didint measure, just when it turned liquid but not so hot that it starts smoking
21:35 Have you not got external jaws for the chuck you were using ?
I do, but since I have two near identical chucks, it is easier to just keep one loaded with inside and one with outside jaws and switch them.
@@RotarySMP An interesting alternative - achievesthe same thing and is probably less of a faff !
Option 2. It sounds less risky and you have the time to spare.
Thanks,
Although baiting belgians is a historically popular european pastime, it seldom ends well for all involved.
I'd go with option 2, find the right solvent and flush 'em out. there's no good reason to break down a perfectly good assembly like that, it was assembled by some of the best people on the planet at that sort of thing, and it's still in great condition.
I have informed Nico. THanks for the feedback :)
I am of the view if this is not a production machine, and you can get a safe and useable result with Option 2, then go that route. There will be other expenditure on this machine those saved funds will be better suited to.
Yeah, it is going to be a pretty pricy build. Thanks for your vote.
Nice! I would go with option 2 too - messing something up on those is really easy. If you start with option 3 you might end up with option 4 easily. Going with option 1: That’s not an option :D and do me a favor: Don’t assemble and grease them in your basement, try to get everything as clean as possible. Robenz‘s machine shop was probably clean as it gets when he did it :) last: Watch out which solvent you are going to use, the bronze/ brass ball bearing carrier doesn’t like all of them.. this could bring you to option 4 again
FYI: for spindle bearings there are manufacturer instruction for the amount and distribution of the grease as well as the temp cycles.. the rpm is not too high so it shouldn’t be that crazy, for 10k rpm + such a cycle can take hours - as you said: time is not an issue :)
The recommendation is 4.6g in the 7011s and 5.4g in the 7013's. Kluber LDS 7013. My machine shop is clean. The garage is where all the dirt dusty grinding etc occurs. Thanks for you inputs.
I say, option 5 Put a vacuum bag over one side of bearings, seal it with tape on the bearing, and apply grease to other side and suck your way to your satisfaction.
Precision spindle bearings are not packed with grease. They only need 5g of grease.
I'd lean towards option #2 since as you say you have all the time in the world to dissolve out the old stuff. The only thing that gives me pause is whether you'd be able to lube the bearing further from the injection points. So I guess option 2. Option #3 would be preferable. I have a Brown and Sharpe grinder in my garage that I have all the paperwork for from 1962? I found a company that carries the bearings - they wanted $420 each for the two bearings which is almost as much as I paid for the grinder! It's funny, as soon as you mentioned lubing bearings ROBRENZ flashed into my head :)
I have seen quotes on these for bearings up around €900, so I would rather take some risk with the ones I have. If I kill them, I am no worse off.
Option 3 or 4. I tried several times to clean those type of bearing assemblies with air and solvent. You never fully clean it this way.
Not what I want to hear, but it is good to hear.
Could depend on how persistent you are and of course enough time ie not commercial but home use.
@@chrisstephens6673 Thanks. Time is not critical. There are another 30 videos before this runs :)