Brian, all good points. As an owner of many vintage "flex" pens I will add another reason they are not "mass produced". Many who want them will not be able to use them. People love how the writing looks, but to produce that requires special skills & lots of training. The pen, like most instruments, requires skill to use. A soft flex nib responds to any input, to use effectively requires unique motor skills. Owning a Stradivarius does not make one a great violinist. Many want a Ferrari, but few would drive one every day. With all market driven systems, if there was profit in making "vintage flex" pens, they would be made. The modern soft nibs are very good, some are relatively low cost. Look at how few of them there are. The standard fine, medium, etc are the ones that sell.
Bingo. That said, the rise of the Internet and social media has increased interest in flex writing, and companies have started to offer more flex options in the last 3-5 years as a result. -Brian
@@Gouletpens love your optimism but I'm writing from 7 years in the future: Over this time less than 50 000 people have asked TH-cam this question. How many would have spent $500 on a modern flexy boi? 😅
Sounds a lot like why they don't make elegant, lightweight cast-iron skillets like they did a hundred years ago and we're stuck with these heavy, bulky rough-cast iron pans instead, and why many opt instead for more common modern steel pans. To make them the way they used to would cost $100 per pan just to manufacture assuming optimal economy of scale. Add in wholesale and then retail mark-ups ($200+) and you're looking at something impractically expensive and a demand too low to justify the volume needed just to manufacture them at $100 per pan.
I know, that's what I was referring to ;) They couldn't do it the old way, so they found a new way to get similar results. But cooking pans are something that never became obsolete as a mass consumer product, and likely never will; fountain pens, sadly, have become obsolete, being relegated to enthusiasts and collectors like us. There isn't enough demand to drive forward a new manufacturing method that would make wet noodle nibs cost-effective to produce and economical to purchase.
The thing that keeps us asking is that while it would be very expensive to start from zero and come up with everything for a noodle nib, it's still not clear why it would cost more than doing the same for any other nib, and those are introduced "all the time" (tm). The same would seem to go for nib material. If one needs 14kt but with a slightly different alloy, there are many companies who already do that for jewelers. We know the dimensions for these nibs, or can pop one on a 3D laser modeler and get the numbers in minutes, in an AutoCAD or SolidWorks format. With modern EDM machines, that program can give a blank or cut a shaped blank to 1/10000th of an inch, including the slot. Again, it would be expensive for someone to do from square 1, but some of these companies already have the right kind of machines and material sources. And if they can charge $3k for a pen without blushing, why not $300 extra for a real wet noodle? At that point, you're 1000% right, it requires demand from people who can spend the extra. There must be dozens of us.
This is the same problem I have with steel flex pen nibs. After about 2 months of using them, they just start dumping ink all over the page. No amount of squeezing the tines together to reduce the slit does anything, its like...they reach a point where the metallic composition of the nib just gives out and can't hold back ink any longer. Then it just leaks all over the page no matter what you do...the only solution is to replace the nib.
I've been wanting to try a Noodler's flex nib one from FPR for a while now. When I decided to try flex, I started with an Esterbrook and an old Osmiroid sketch nib. The nib flexed a bit, but not enough for me and took quite a bit of pressure, from what I recall (can't seem to locate it atm). From there I got a 2048 nib (which I've also misplaced), which flexed more easily and I liked it well enough until I saw the opportunity to get a Waterman 12 1/2 with a what the seller described as a flexy nib. It wasn't a wet noodle (and I do still have it) but it made that 2048 seem like a nail. I think it was after that that I found out about the Esterbrook 9128 and just had to get one of those.Based on what I've read about the 9128 it seems like the amount of flex varied from nib to nib. I must have lucked out, because mine flexes a good amount with not much pressure. Not as much as the Waterman, but much more than the 2048 and the Osmiroid. Esterbrook should have left instructions describing how they made those nibs. *sigh*
I purchased some Zebra G nibs. Very inexpensive. Use them in an inexpensive Jinhao fountain pen. These are incredibly flexible nibs and fit on standard #6 nib pens. They work really well for practicing Copperplate lettering. I also did a bit of digging and found a website that described a method of altering a Noodlers Flex Nib by just grinding out a bit of metal behind the wings. Just got them today but I saw the results from the author (I wish I remembered who it was. FPN forum) I will try to alter one of these nibs to get more flex.
Perhaps it's more a case of updating manufacturing methods, - materials development, laser cutting and whatnot, which has come a long way in the last 20 years, but the result would likely be the same in that they'd be expensive for the size of the market. When those technologies become commonplace, there might be a possibility.
After I bought my Pilot Falcon with the FA nib, I realized I prefer jist a little flex. Too flexible feels too doughy to me, but I dont like really stiff either. A nice nib grind on a medium flex is my favorite
This set me thinking: what would it take to give this hobby a real boost? The answer I keep coming back to is the modern always-connected "influencer". Either if some A-list celebrities started pulling out FPs and making a big deal of them, maybe if they were front and centre in some highly fashionable movies, there could be quite an impact. Not sure if that would create enough force to "bring back" vintage flex, but it would be interesting to observe. There seems to be a fairly sizeable sector of society that hangs on every word uttered and every piece of fabric worn by the celeb-of-the-moment. I doubt that's a new thing but everything is much more immediate nowadays. If that did happen, if the right product placement was in the right place at the right time, maybe demand would outstrip supply.
When you get your hands on a true vintage flexible nib, there really is no equivalent. Not only are they more flexible, they seem more resilient, graceful, nuonced. It's hard to explain in words how much more satisfying a good vintage flexible nib is. The tipping, the shape, and the intricate bevel cuts shout a craftsmanship and skill set which we have lost. Just the fact that no one can really nail down the answer, I think says we just don't know. It would be interesting to research a company like Waterman to see if they have any records of nib making SOPs from like the 1920s. This topic I feel is like the white whale of FP hobby.
I think you can get similar performance, but you have to feed them. A serious flex nib requires lots of ink. At some point if you want extreme line variation, a dip pen is the answer. The best one I’ve used is the Fountain Pen Revolution gold Super Flex. It is a standard size #6. The feed is also important. It can’t be a converter.
To add to this there are a very small select pen makers that have recreated the vintage wet noodle. Look into the hand-made romillo nibs (yes, hand made nibs) but these pens start at over $1,000. It's possible but not economical for any large company like Pel or MB
I also think it might be the alloy they used to mix the gold back in the day. 14 and 18 karat gold have other metals in them to give them characteristics that the gold lacks. it may be that they had a specialized alloy created for these Flex nibs, and because we don't make them anymore in mass quantities, they don't have a special alloy that they use because making the alloy in those quantities would be cost prohibitive.
You know, I have a theory on this. Many years ago before steel was a commonly-used thing (before the technology to make it and shape it easily was refined) gold was just the only sensible option for making fountain pen nibs with. It flexed because gold is soft. It was an accident, but many people clearly enjoyed it. It also meant they could be damaged. Now, a gold nib is for show and for prestige. Steel nibs can be made to flex, the technology and technique is available. I think this nostalgia for vintage flex assumes, wrongly, that pens were just better made back then. It's like the "back in my day" way of looking at the world.
I don't understand much about pens, but I suppose nib customisation also has its limits; I mean, it's not only about the softness of the nib, but about the capability of the feed, which provides constant and adequate ink flow. If the feed can't keep up, it's of no use to have your nib customised, is it?
This is exactly what I'm learning. Flex nibs are not feasible daily use items. They wear out too fast and require replacement as during their use, the metal flexing changes the composition of the nib...causing it to perform worse and worse until it needs replacement. This change takes place 10x faster with steel nibs. For everyday use...stick to a stub or italic nib.
+jmmacb03 That's a really good idea. I'm not sure if that has been a purpose yet, but a company that starts with that process could really do well! - Colin
Brian, People think they want flex nibs, what they really want is better handwriting. I design and make my own notebooks, I've found that very small changes in the height of the faint gray lines I print radically change the quality of my handwriting. I've also found that the Nemosine .6mm stub goes a long way towards cleaning up my wretched scrawl. So... people say they want flex nibs, what they really want is better handwriting. I think some kind of 'italics' nib will help. I wonder why .6mm is the narrowest stub? But that just means I'm like everybody else, I think I want something because it will make my handwriting more legible and prettier, but like everybody else I want better handwriting, but I'm asking for a specific type of nib... Manufacturing nibs is not a big deal. A nib is a stamped piece of metal. Everything about a fountain pen nib, except the nubbin at the end, can be stamped in one step. Carbon steel can flex and snap back anyway you can possibly imagine. When I look at replacement nibs what I think I'm seeing is the same nibs with slightly different patterns made by a very tiny number of companies or maybe just one. The exceptions are India, China and the large Japanese corporations (Pilot for example who cannot make a bad nib, or Platinum who makes amazing $3 pens). []Download: My paper line dimensions .2354 inches height, .1727 inch gap, gives me 25 lines per page. I used to use a height of .2131" with space between of .09" This gave me 35 lines and unreadable handwriting. The other thing about nibs. First think of what you want the line to do. Then design the nib, then make the nib. I have no doubt that if you wanted a horizontal line F-thin and a vertical line that was B-bold, with BBB-bold with just a bit more pressure, and a horizontal line that goes from F to BB and back to F.... it is not only possible, it wouldn't be that difficult to make. A bold claim but it could be done.
Just take the narcissism to the next level and carry around pilot parallels w/ the cartridges for daily writing. Sign the credit card receipt with it, in Apache Sunset, 6.0 parallel nib. I jest; flex is fun. I'm not going to carry around a vintage pocket-hazard though, with some cricket's gall bladder for an ink dispenser...
Well, I'm not sure if that's the exact process, but there's definitely more flex or soft nibs coming out since this slice. Karas Kustoms Titanium nibs are really soft. I know Stipula & Aurora are having flex nibs coming out in a few months as well. - Colin
It's not that simple. Steel is garbage at flexing compared to gold and wears out MUCH faster just from the friggin "Flexing" that they are built to do. It's unavoidable... 1. Steel will not work and will FAIL within months of usage. 2. Gold is too "Expensive" to manufacture nibs with in large amounts 3. The only solution is to pay out the ass for a one-off custom GOLD FLEX NIB. (IE: Montblanc 149 Calligraphy Pen or another expensive equivalent.)
@@Detman101 please educate yourself on the topic of fatigue limits. There is no reason a steel nib cannot flex exactly the same amount as gold. Different geometry is needed, but that is what engineers are for. If you were willing to pay me, I am more than capable of doing this myself. You send me a gold nib, I could design one in steel that bends the same. I do stiffness analysis quite frequently at work for other applications.
Also, since wear is mostly a function of hardness and lubrication, please explain where you are finding gold that is harder than steel. You can't even use the same hardness scales to measure them because the difference is so great. Many companies make shitty steel nibs and care more about the gold ones, but that does not mean anything about steel being poor.
News flash: dip pens aren't easy to transport and require some time of the day, a stable survace to put the inkwell on, a glass of water (if you're using permanent ink)... If you just plan on writing on your desk, I agree, but if you plan on writing in a train or drawing/sketching on the go, a flexible fountainpen seems like it'd be an awesome thing to have (still looking for one of my own).
does the Zebra G nib fit on that feed? I've been looking into a "Franken Pen" experiment like this. Did you have to do any other mods, or just drop it in?
you move your hands alot, are you italian? and also good points, but as someone already said it need skills to use certain type of pens, even a baby can use a ball pen, but give him a fountain pen and it will destroy the nib immediately, so unfortunately the "writing" lost the importance it had once upon a time, hence why we have only 3 colours for the 90% of the writing we do daily, we lost the personalized ink and pen, my grandfather have a mont blanc with his name engraved on it and filled with gold, and it has more then 40 years and still works, so the whole concept of hand writing is changed
Brian, all good points. As an owner of many vintage "flex" pens I will add another reason they are not "mass produced". Many who want them will not be able to use them. People love how the writing looks, but to produce that requires special skills & lots of training. The pen, like most instruments, requires skill to use. A soft flex nib responds to any input, to use effectively requires unique motor skills. Owning a Stradivarius does not make one a great violinist. Many want a Ferrari, but few would drive one every day. With all market driven systems, if there was profit in making "vintage flex" pens, they would be made. The modern soft nibs are very good, some are relatively low cost. Look at how few of them there are. The standard fine, medium, etc are the ones that sell.
Bingo. That said, the rise of the Internet and social media has increased interest in flex writing, and companies have started to offer more flex options in the last 3-5 years as a result. -Brian
in the modern pens now... what would you recommend as an average priced modern flex nib
Noodlers! Pilot falcon has a really soft nib, not a wet noodle though but they’re quite good.
@@Gouletpens love your optimism but I'm writing from 7 years in the future: Over this time less than 50 000 people have asked TH-cam this question. How many would have spent $500 on a modern flexy boi? 😅
For those with short attention spans, he answers the question in the title of the video at 4:12.
Austin Cottrell thanks.
answer in 1000,000 words or more
“Cost”
Sounds a lot like why they don't make elegant, lightweight cast-iron skillets like they did a hundred years ago and we're stuck with these heavy, bulky rough-cast iron pans instead, and why many opt instead for more common modern steel pans. To make them the way they used to would cost $100 per pan just to manufacture assuming optimal economy of scale. Add in wholesale and then retail mark-ups ($200+) and you're looking at something impractically expensive and a demand too low to justify the volume needed just to manufacture them at $100 per pan.
+waffle911 Check out www.kickstarter.com/projects/field-company/the-field-skillet-lighter-smoother-cast-iron
I know, that's what I was referring to ;)
They couldn't do it the old way, so they found a new way to get similar results. But cooking pans are something that never became obsolete as a mass consumer product, and likely never will; fountain pens, sadly, have become obsolete, being relegated to enthusiasts and collectors like us. There isn't enough demand to drive forward a new manufacturing method that would make wet noodle nibs cost-effective to produce and economical to purchase.
The thing that keeps us asking is that while it would be very expensive to start from zero and come up with everything for a noodle nib, it's still not clear why it would cost more than doing the same for any other nib, and those are introduced "all the time" (tm). The same would seem to go for nib material. If one needs 14kt but with a slightly different alloy, there are many companies who already do that for jewelers. We know the dimensions for these nibs, or can pop one on a 3D laser modeler and get the numbers in minutes, in an AutoCAD or SolidWorks format. With modern EDM machines, that program can give a blank or cut a shaped blank to 1/10000th of an inch, including the slot. Again, it would be expensive for someone to do from square 1, but some of these companies already have the right kind of machines and material sources. And if they can charge $3k for a pen without blushing, why not $300 extra for a real wet noodle? At that point, you're 1000% right, it requires demand from people who can spend the extra. There must be dozens of us.
This is the same problem I have with steel flex pen nibs. After about 2 months of using them, they just start dumping ink all over the page. No amount of squeezing the tines together to reduce the slit does anything, its like...they reach a point where the metallic composition of the nib just gives out and can't hold back ink any longer.
Then it just leaks all over the page no matter what you do...the only solution is to replace the nib.
I've been wanting to try a Noodler's flex nib one from FPR for a while now. When I decided to try flex, I started with an Esterbrook and an old Osmiroid sketch nib. The nib flexed a bit, but not enough for me and took quite a bit of pressure, from what I recall (can't seem to locate it atm).
From there I got a 2048 nib (which I've also misplaced), which flexed more easily and I liked it well enough until I saw the opportunity to get a Waterman 12 1/2 with a what the seller described as a flexy nib. It wasn't a wet noodle (and I do still have it) but it made that 2048 seem like a nail.
I think it was after that that I found out about the Esterbrook 9128 and just had to get one of those.Based on what I've read about the 9128 it seems like the amount of flex varied from nib to nib. I must have lucked out, because mine flexes a good amount with not much pressure. Not as much as the Waterman, but much more than the 2048 and the Osmiroid.
Esterbrook should have left instructions describing how they made those nibs. *sigh*
I purchased some Zebra G nibs. Very inexpensive. Use them in an inexpensive Jinhao fountain pen. These are incredibly flexible nibs and fit on standard #6 nib pens. They work really well for practicing Copperplate lettering. I also did a bit of digging and found a website that described a method of altering a Noodlers Flex Nib by just grinding out a bit of metal behind the wings. Just got them today but I saw the results from the author (I wish I remembered who it was. FPN forum) I will try to alter one of these nibs to get more flex.
Perhaps it's more a case of updating manufacturing methods, - materials development, laser cutting and whatnot, which has come a long way in the last 20 years, but the result would likely be the same in that they'd be expensive for the size of the market. When those technologies become commonplace, there might be a possibility.
Yeah, that's a good point. Technology does dictate the market to an extent. - Colin
I love how he says "anyway" cracked me up love your videos keep them coming! :)
After I bought my Pilot Falcon with the FA nib, I realized I prefer jist a little flex. Too flexible feels too doughy to me, but I dont like really stiff either. A nice nib grind on a medium flex is my favorite
This set me thinking: what would it take to give this hobby a real boost? The answer I keep coming back to is the modern always-connected "influencer". Either if some A-list celebrities started pulling out FPs and making a big deal of them, maybe if they were front and centre in some highly fashionable movies, there could be quite an impact. Not sure if that would create enough force to "bring back" vintage flex, but it would be interesting to observe. There seems to be a fairly sizeable sector of society that hangs on every word uttered and every piece of fabric worn by the celeb-of-the-moment. I doubt that's a new thing but everything is much more immediate nowadays. If that did happen, if the right product placement was in the right place at the right time, maybe demand would outstrip supply.
When you get your hands on a true vintage flexible nib, there really is no equivalent. Not only are they more flexible, they seem more resilient, graceful, nuonced. It's hard to explain in words how much more satisfying a good vintage flexible nib is. The tipping, the shape, and the intricate bevel cuts shout a craftsmanship and skill set which we have lost. Just the fact that no one can really nail down the answer, I think says we just don't know. It would be interesting to research a company like Waterman to see if they have any records of nib making SOPs from like the 1920s. This topic I feel is like the white whale of FP hobby.
o.o I thought somebody else was speaking at the beginning of the video
It does sound a bit too monotoned for it to be Brian! - Colin
I think you can get similar performance, but you have to feed them. A serious flex nib requires lots of ink. At some point if you want extreme line variation, a dip pen is the answer.
The best one I’ve used is the Fountain Pen Revolution gold Super Flex. It is a standard size #6.
The feed is also important. It can’t be a converter.
To add to this there are a very small select pen makers that have recreated the vintage wet noodle. Look into the hand-made romillo nibs (yes, hand made nibs) but these pens start at over $1,000. It's possible but not economical for any large company like Pel or MB
cound it be possible to stamp a fountain pen nib from flex steel then electro plate it? (gold for corrosion protection)
I also think it might be the alloy they used to mix the gold back in the day. 14 and 18 karat gold have other metals in them to give them characteristics that the gold lacks. it may be that they had a specialized alloy created for these Flex nibs, and because we don't make them anymore in mass quantities, they don't have a special alloy that they use because making the alloy in those quantities would be cost prohibitive.
With OMAS no longer around... Where to go?
You know, I have a theory on this. Many years ago before steel was a commonly-used thing (before the technology to make it and shape it easily was refined) gold was just the only sensible option for making fountain pen nibs with. It flexed because gold is soft. It was an accident, but many people clearly enjoyed it. It also meant they could be damaged. Now, a gold nib is for show and for prestige. Steel nibs can be made to flex, the technology and technique is available. I think this nostalgia for vintage flex assumes, wrongly, that pens were just better made back then. It's like the "back in my day" way of looking at the world.
I don't understand much about pens, but I suppose nib customisation also has its limits; I mean, it's not only about the softness of the nib, but about the capability of the feed, which provides constant and adequate ink flow. If the feed can't keep up, it's of no use to have your nib customised, is it?
Very good points. As a fountain pen user who really "use" fountain pens and do not play with them, I have to say don't want a flex nib.
This is exactly what I'm learning. Flex nibs are not feasible daily use items. They wear out too fast and require replacement as during their use, the metal flexing changes the composition of the nib...causing it to perform worse and worse until it needs replacement. This change takes place 10x faster with steel nibs.
For everyday use...stick to a stub or italic nib.
What is this pen called at 3:11? the amisa diogiva extra flexible?
+Sincee1809 Brian mentions the Pilot Falcon and the Ogiva Extra-Flexible. - Colin
Maybe advances in 3D printing will change things and bring costs down!
+jmmacb03 That's a really good idea. I'm not sure if that has been a purpose yet, but a company that starts with that process could really do well! - Colin
Probably will make it less quality though. I know there are some metal 3d printers but, it probably isn’t very economical or great quality either
It will be years till we see anything that could even produce a crude dip pen nib with 3D printing.
Pjotrpens.com has managed to create titanium 3D printed nibs.
Brian, People think they want flex nibs, what they really want is better handwriting. I design and make my own notebooks, I've found that very small changes in the height of the faint gray lines I print radically change the quality of my handwriting. I've also found that the Nemosine .6mm stub goes a long way towards cleaning up my wretched scrawl. So... people say they want flex nibs, what they really want is better handwriting. I think some kind of 'italics' nib will help. I wonder why .6mm is the narrowest stub? But that just means I'm like everybody else, I think I want something because it will make my handwriting more legible and prettier, but like everybody else I want better handwriting, but I'm asking for a specific type of nib...
Manufacturing nibs is not a big deal. A nib is a stamped piece of metal. Everything about a fountain pen nib, except the nubbin at the end, can be stamped in one step. Carbon steel can flex and snap back anyway you can possibly imagine. When I look at replacement nibs what I think I'm seeing is the same nibs with slightly different patterns made by a very tiny number of companies or maybe just one. The exceptions are India, China and the large Japanese corporations (Pilot for example who cannot make a bad nib, or Platinum who makes amazing $3 pens). []Download: My paper line dimensions .2354 inches height, .1727 inch gap, gives me 25 lines per page. I used to use a height of .2131" with space between of .09" This gave me 35 lines and unreadable handwriting.
The other thing about nibs. First think of what you want the line to do. Then design the nib, then make the nib. I have no doubt that if you wanted a horizontal line F-thin and a vertical line that was B-bold, with BBB-bold with just a bit more pressure, and a horizontal line that goes from F to BB and back to F.... it is not only possible, it wouldn't be that difficult to make. A bold claim but it could be done.
Just take the narcissism to the next level and carry around pilot parallels w/ the cartridges for daily writing. Sign the credit card receipt with it, in Apache Sunset, 6.0 parallel nib. I jest; flex is fun. I'm not going to carry around a vintage pocket-hazard though, with some cricket's gall bladder for an ink dispenser...
no reason they can't make them today. Sheet steel, heat treat, laser cut, bend with die. No problem.
Well, I'm not sure if that's the exact process, but there's definitely more flex or soft nibs coming out since this slice. Karas Kustoms Titanium nibs are really soft. I know Stipula & Aurora are having flex nibs coming out in a few months as well. - Colin
It's not that simple. Steel is garbage at flexing compared to gold and wears out MUCH faster just from the friggin "Flexing" that they are built to do. It's unavoidable...
1. Steel will not work and will FAIL within months of usage.
2. Gold is too "Expensive" to manufacture nibs with in large amounts
3. The only solution is to pay out the ass for a one-off custom GOLD FLEX NIB. (IE: Montblanc 149 Calligraphy Pen or another expensive equivalent.)
@@Detman101 please educate yourself on the topic of fatigue limits. There is no reason a steel nib cannot flex exactly the same amount as gold. Different geometry is needed, but that is what engineers are for. If you were willing to pay me, I am more than capable of doing this myself. You send me a gold nib, I could design one in steel that bends the same. I do stiffness analysis quite frequently at work for other applications.
Also, since wear is mostly a function of hardness and lubrication, please explain where you are finding gold that is harder than steel. You can't even use the same hardness scales to measure them because the difference is so great. Many companies make shitty steel nibs and care more about the gold ones, but that does not mean anything about steel being poor.
if you want flex, use a dip pen.
That was my thought, but I started with dip and still prefer it.
Yeah, sure, let me just put a whole bottle of ink, and a dip pen in my pocket.
Dip pens aren't portable, which is the main function of fountain pens.
matt lam if you want flex, use FLEX TAPE!
News flash: dip pens aren't easy to transport and require some time of the day, a stable survace to put the inkwell on, a glass of water (if you're using permanent ink)...
If you just plan on writing on your desk, I agree, but if you plan on writing in a train or drawing/sketching on the go, a flexible fountainpen seems like it'd be an awesome thing to have (still looking for one of my own).
does the Zebra G nib fit on that feed? I've been looking into a "Franken Pen" experiment like this. Did you have to do any other mods, or just drop it in?
you move your hands alot, are you italian? and also good points, but as someone already said it need skills to use certain type of pens, even a baby can use a ball pen, but give him a fountain pen and it will destroy the nib immediately, so unfortunately the "writing" lost the importance it had once upon a time, hence why we have only 3 colours for the 90% of the writing we do daily, we lost the personalized ink and pen, my grandfather have a mont blanc with his name engraved on it and filled with gold, and it has more then 40 years and still works, so the whole concept of hand writing is changed
First person to like
+Jack Halstead Woo Hoo! -Margaret