BMC 9X - The Mini Replacement That Never Was
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2022
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In the long list of British Leyland missed opportunities, the BMC 9X, and its axing by the new management in 1971, is often considered the worst of them all, as this incredibly practical and nippy little car, which didn't stray too far from the styling of the original Mini, while also presenting it with superb features such as a hatchback, an improved engine, a better ride and a more spacious interior, was shot down right before it could have entered production, leaving the original Mini to soldier on in production throughout the 1970s, 80s and 90s, while British Leyland itself would fall terribly behind the competition in providing practical family machines.
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Just when I think I've heard every story of BMC/BL incompetence, a fresh one comes out of the woodwork!
It's a rabbit hole
I'd have said British Leyland management incompetence, hamstrung by lack of cash and foresight as just seen in the video.
I think now for a change, we out to be treated to similar tales of Ford incompetence, who remembers the weld on inner wing kits from your local parts shop you soon had to buy as they all rotted away, the 1200 cc engine from the Cortina that would only last 40000 miles, the anti roll bar they left off the Escort for cost reasons, the Mk 3 Cortina estate that broke its back if a decent load was put in it , Ford's folly, the mk 4 Zodiac and later, the Scorpio, leaf springs and RWD years after BL had progressed on...
I could go on and on , but one thing they were very good at was marketing and product placement.
So come on Rudy, one on Ford is long overdue.
Ooooooh there’s more 🤣
At least the labor union escaped blame for this one! ; )
“Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory” is the mantra of British manufacturing :D
Almost no one has heard about this instalment of BL's parlous lack of management. Instead, they waited 10 years and eventually came up with the totally outclassed Mini Metro.
I worked in a BL dealership and the utter disbelief when the first metro was unloaded and it was a 4 speed A+ series that would prove to be worse than the engine it replaced
"this car is much better than the Mini, and will actually make money."
"Yes, we know the Mini is losing money, but it is selling well. Never change a winning horse!"
That's BL management for you.
Exactly. Let’s cut down on all investments in future products and just sell what we have already.
Spunking a load of money on design and development, then failing to bring the resultant design to production thereby wasting all that money is the British Leyland way.
Skeet, skeet!
💸,💸!
If it fell into the hands of the Japanese, for example, it could have been near fatal for BL, such was its potential. In fact, this characterised the post-war British car industry. It could have had a death grip on the world, but they dallied while Germany, France and Japan rose from the ashes.
I’m glad it didn’t go into production, yikes!
Thanks for this. Great to get more detail on this amazing car. BL just didn't have the finances for a brand new car at this time, what with trying to make a raft of other new cars. Such a shame. I wonder if using the A series engine & some Mini running gear could have made it cheap enough to introduce (a la Innocenti Mini). We'll never know.
Andy the biggest reason why 9X never got the A series is , it wouldnt fit believe it or not!! the packaging was so clever you would have had to extend the nose and raise the height ( like they did with Allegro, to squeeze the Maxi's huge E series lump in) The 9X is tiny,, yet its neat proportions are like Delorean DMC 12 Its much smaller than it looks in shot or on film.. As for the innoccenti,,, it was the production cost that stopped to being built at Longbridge and it wasn't a refined design,, it still had the bus like driving position the seating was tiny and the fuel tank was exposed inside the tailgate opening hatchback area... Again it was making a production ready car.. If BL in the UK had done an Innoccenti they could have used the Van/estate floorpan and stretched it to a 5 door,, there giving it more room and putting the fuel tank under the floor..
Let these steutzels pour their money into these English oil leakers and German luxo-boats that turn into the worst money pits imaginable. Give me my 1990 Cadillac Brougham d' Elegance and my F-150 Coyote, that's all I need in the transportation department. I owned two RR Silver Shadows and I called them my "Englandershizewagons" and when I parked my '88 M-B 420 SEL next to them she would spool her engine down with a sigh that sort of said: "Oh, back here again are we with the 'rabblestrasza' (I gather is street people)"? It helps to know German when you own a Mercedes.
@@dennischallinor8497 it’s scheiss or scheiß, not shize ;)
@@kaitlyn__L Thank you, I took German in grade 10 which was 62 yrs ago. My problem is I had no one to practise with after grade 10, so you lose it.
@@dennischallinor8497 understandable! Plus, I was never taught the swears in my language classes anyway!
The 9X was a nice looking design but another wasted Leyland opportunity.
Thank you Ruairidh - another well produced video that I enjoyed very much!
5:31 That van still parks by the Royal Scottish Academy, Edinburgh, in July 2022!
Instead they snatched defeat from the jaws victory, and ruined marques such as Jaguar, Rover and Triumph along the way. Excellent.
Such a sad mess. Lyons should have gone with Leyland Standard Triumph, waited for BMC to go pop, then they would have cleaned up.
@@user-kd1md9sd2i perhaps
jag wasn't ruined
@@Deltic55-mw4bo hardly went from strength to strength really.
Good Saturday Morning Everyone
Good morning
After 5pm Saturday in Australia, so good afternoon
good (LATE) morning! :D
When I was a kid I drove a Mini once and it was a blast, like an MG Midget (sorry, 'little person') they could turn on a dime and ran all day and the needle hardly moved. You know you are in a 'jaws of life' car when a cement mixer pulls up behind you at a red light and his front bumper is looking into your back window!
Great vid. The transfer gear was added because the engine was initially designed with the carburettor/exhaust at the front. The carb iced up so they had to turn the engine round. The leaks were caused by the front floorpan pressing meeting the bulkhead pressing in the engine bay. Water ran down and onto the floor. These pressings were reversed.
Like the A Series engine, the gears already existed: in the Austin A40. There was too much inertia, driving them directly from primary gear, causing excessive synchromesh wear. The intermediate transfer gear reduced the inertia, but required turning the engine round as it reversed the direction of rotation.
There are other factors, like putting the exhaust manifold behind the engine so the exhaust didn't have to fit past the gearbox and putting the distributor, spark plugs, starter motor & generator all at the front for easier servicing & better space utilisation. It certainly had nothing to do with carb icing.
@@ethelmini "Like the A Series engine, the gears already existed: in the Austin A40." ?? Austin A40 was a 1 2 3 layout. Sorry for appearing dumb but can you explain this, please?
@@georgerogers5954 The gearset, not gearbox.
The more I hear about British Leyland, the more I think it wasn't a good idea.
Great video, I never knew much about the 9x, despite having seen it at Gaydon 😅 Can you also make one on the Innocenti Mini from 1974 onwards?
To me this looks very much like the Mini Innocenti that was produced and manufactured in Italy with the front and rear subframes including engine and transmission carried over from the Mini. I knew a guy who imported two or three in the early 70's and converted them to right hand drive.
I just wrote something similar to your post! I believe I spotted them on visits to Italy in 1973. I think there where a 1100/1200 Italian version also by Innocenti but that must have been earlier because I spotted it in Cuba and most imports stopped in 1959.'
could they have done without the subframes?
Innocenti built a mini 90 on a British mini platform,later models had daihatsu running gear and a 3 cylinder engine. They also did innocenti regent which was basically an allegro rebadged.
@@bokhans en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocenti_Mini
Not to be confused with the Italian Mini made in Milan and badged as "Innocenti" with different grille and dashboard intrumentation which was totally different.
@@Bulletguy07
Interesting enough, de Tomaso states that after the change from BL to Daihatsu engines, warranty claims dropped 70%!
Always good to see a new video pop up
Another history of what iff. Great work. Thank you for your hard work.
Fortunately , however , the Austin Allegro became a massive success ! 🤣🤣
It did ok. It was about as popular as other similar sized cars in its day.
The leaking water problem was caused by the stupid idea of the design engineers to have the lower section of the firewall/footwell panel lap-welded on top of the floor-pan pressing, which caused water to be forced into any gaps in the weld as the vehicle drove forward (especially through puddles)!
The issue was never fully rectified, they just had to spend more time applying copious amounts of sealant along the weld, inside & out.
Unfortunately if you managed to scrape the underneath of your Mini (easily done with its low clearance), & if any damage to the panel/s & sealant weren't repaired in a reasonable time, your feet would start dropping through the floor!
was sure i'd read - or heard in an interview - that most of the problem was due to them putting the floor beneath the bulkhead before welding, meaning water ran in to the joint, and they changed that to having the bulkhead beneath the floor so the water ran across it. They still rotted like fruit, but the majority of the leaking went away then
The British motor industry of the ‘70s, brilliant in it’s ability at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!
How about the Italian development of the Mini, the Innocenti. They first made Mini’s in Italy and later a pretty similar locking car to the 9x but better a bit better looking in my opinion.
One of the most underrated channels on youtube.
Wow really surprised to see a picture of my Carlton grey 1800 with the number plate hidden. An excellent video
OMG that was such a sleek design , the perfect replacement for Mini Metro. Best compliments for the author of this footage, warm greets from Argentina
BMC's tagline should've been: Snatching Defeat From the Jaws of Victory.
Mergers & acquisitions rarely go well, and are sunk by hubris on the part of the acquirers.
This is because their own employees' instincts dismiss those parts of the acquiree's operation that are more efficient & advanced than their own. It's a job security thing. The spoils of victory are that, for example, a second-tier IT or marketing or engineering operation will prevail over its equivalent in the target company. The gold in the mine goes ignored by clueless executive teams.
Chrysler being relegated second fiddle to Daimler comes to mind…
Wow! A very profound and accurate assessment of reality.
Enjoyed this very much. When I got my DL in early 1979 my father helped me buy my first car, a Leyland Marina. And a good reliable car it was too.
Can`t wait for this new model , with the price of fuel so high a small runabout like this will be very popular :-)
A channel that easily deserves 100k subs
Fascinating as always.
Innocenti in Italy put this version into production. They had the licence to manufacture BMC cars there.
It wasn't quite a 9X as I'm quite sure the engine & sub-frames were adapted from the Morris Mini.
It was not this model. It was a fresh project designed by Bertone. It came in two versions: Mini 90 (1.0l) and Mini 120 (1.3l). A few years later, Innocenti dropped the ageing A-series engines and installed a frisky 1.0l 53HP 3-cylinder engined by Daihatsu.
I can compare all versions as I took my first driving lessons in my grandpa's Innocenti Mini 1000 (the license-built Italian version of Issigonis's Mini), then my family bought a new Mini 90 and after a while a Daihatsu-engined Mini "3 cilindri".
Bertone-designed Minis where fantastically spacious, even compared to the already space-efficient original. And the 3-cyl. model was a rocket, compared to the A-series, despite having only 5HP more than the Italian-tuned A-series.
Finally, comparing the Mini to the Golf (even the smaller original one) is a bit of a stretch. Why not saying that the real competitor was the Fiat 127, the best selling small hatchback of those years?
Great vlog as always! Yes, I agree that it has a lot of Peugeot 104, Renault 5, Golf 1, Simca (the front) and Mazda 1300 side rear windows. Lots of windows, not a lot of blind spots. To get a 60hp engine at that time, wow! I love small cars. I have driven Fiat all my life.
Have you owned a 127?
The R5 was radically different, with the longitudinal engine set behind the front wheels and torsion bars keeping the weight down low. But it too had its faults.
wow i did not know that the 9x even existed what a great video
Interesting.
I knew nothing of the 9X.
Thank you for this.
☮
Great video. Thanks! 👍
What an interesting story. Other companies failed to compete in time and lost on a super lucrative new market.
Imagine a parallel universe where the 9X was produced, the Allegro was introduced with a hatchback and a shorter engine so it actually looked like Harris Mann's sketches, and the Princess with a hatchback. Also, the Pininfarina MG Midget then the Austin Apache and Aquila to replace the Maxi also being produced.
Back when cars in other countries looked different. Today the cars are mostly the same.
With good reasons: the need for safety features and ownership of brands by multinational companies.
@@Sacto1654 that doesn't excuse how much everything looks like bunch of bad photocopying, and has done for a long time. Once you start to notice the basic shape of the Audi grill on everything, you can't un-notice it. Hyundai are by far the worst for it.
I think it’s all down to more models nowadays that sell all over the world instead of just one or two markets. But otherwise, it’s always been pretty normal for cars of the same era to all look more or less the same. The reason we always think current cars are the worst in that respect is just because we see more of them than older cars. But if you look at any old photo of a busy city or highway from any time in the last 80 years, you’ll see the cars all look pretty much the same as each other.
The front view of that reminds me of the Simca 1100
It reminds me of a Hillman Imp, sorry BMC fans - if there is such a thing, if you ignore the square side and indicator lights
Never knew about that car. Thanks for that.
05:30 That Tasttee Maid ice cream van should be in a museum, if it still exists. Amazing. They don't design and make them like this any more.
Of course the innocenti mini seemed to take a lot of the Vision of this car - maybe a piece on that vehicle would be interesting ? I thought they were super little cars and really stood out!
I've seen this car at Gaydon. It really is a neat little package, well ahead of its time. Shame it never made it into production.
thanks god, innocenti comes and introduce another Mini in 1974, stylish, modern and good all arounder... never hear about from UK people, i doubt it's well knowed outside italy...
My dad had a mini van, through his work, and our family would pile in the back sitting on cushions and head out for the day.
It got well abused as vans do, with heavy flanges carried in the back to take to worksites.
I remember five of us cramming into our commanding officers mini; to go to some event ( I was a cadet in the ATC), we were a bit like sardines in it.
If you needed more luggage capacity, and you could afford it, there was the Wolseley version which had a larger boot than the regular mini (it had a vertical radiator grill).
One of the problems with the mini was if you went through a deep puddle and splashed water into the engine bay, the engine cut out…
There was a cheap and effective solution for that - take a rubber glove, marigolds were ideal, cut a hole in the end of the fingers and thread the spark plug leads through them, and the coil lead through the thumb and slip over the distributor. You could then splash as much as you liked!
Name was BMC Mini. Austin Mini was just one of the makes it was available as. Even then the Austin version started as the Austin Seven.
Austin Mini was unknown in Australia, being from the start the Morris Mini Minor.
As per lots of the colour film clips you used showing the Australian Morris versions.
The Morris 'version' was also available in the UK and Europe/ROW. It was exclusively sold in Finland as the Morris Mascot. The Morris versions were mainly built at Cowley although some (particularly the Cooper and S variants) were built at Longbridge. Austin UK production was all at Longbridge. At launch in 1959 only the factories in Cowley and Longbridge were making Minis, the Australian (starting in 1961) and other world wide production sites would come later. The Morris Minis in the video are all UK built as far as I can see.
Rear looks like a Yugo. This would have saved BL, but the management were so out of touch.
I'd rather have the Yugo 😅 this is ugly in comparison 🤮
It's very well styled. Crisp clean lines. It could pass for a Japanese Kei car of a decade later. A shame it wasn't put into production. As long as the quality control was kept to a high standard I'm sure it would've been just as successful as the original mini.
It looks ugly 😂 one knock at the front = game over 🤷
I need to make an important point here. This car was made and sold in low numbers until the mid/late 1980's, primarily by FIAT as the Mini Innocenti, and popular around southern France, Italy area.
I rented a Seat badged Mini in Portugal in about 1982. I also saw a few Innocenti (looked like a Mk1 Fiesta from the front) minis on holiday in southern France and the odd one in London too.
No it was not this car. Innocenti did produce a similarly looking car, but that was basically a reskinned Mini. Same engines and chassis as the Mini not the more modern design of the 9X
Thank you 😊
with all the things the brits canceled during the middle of the 20th century its amazing they still exist
………with the amount of mass immigration and “cultural enrichment “ being forced on us I’m sure it won’t be long before Brits don’t exist !
This states there is only one 9X left, in Gaydon. However I believe there is also one at the Atwell Wilson museum at Calne in Wiltshire - I’ve seen it at a couple of (pre-covid !) car shows.
Does anyone else see Stellantis starting to mimic the same management style as BL?
Yes but with a twist .....This time around it won't be about inept contemptful bad coopted management that think they know best ....But rather about inept contemptful horrid European politicians ordering the management teams to sell their Russian factories to Russia for a symbolic euro , and shut down lines of thermic cars that costed zillions in engineering ....
There are many flavours of bankruptcy .....
According to what I understand, Ford of England conducted a cost analysis of the Mini and concluded BMC was making a mere $5 US profit on each car sold. This was insufficient to cover the cost of a replacement.
The Ford analysis seems to be where the loss making figure came from.
Have heard others say it was bad analysis.
Would like to know the real figures correctly done.
Maybe Ford were right, being a rare survivor can company so far.
@@johnd8892 The story goes that Ford bought a Mini... and then stripped it down to every single component which was costed. They concluded that the Mini was a loss leader. Every model sold made a loss.
@@Darwinion It possibly was, but that didn't mean it wasn't financially viable. 5 million Minis had 5 million A Series engines, all also with carburettors, distributors etc common with Sprites, Midgets, Moggy 1000s, & Marinas and gearboxes common with 1100 & 1300s, then Allegros.
That's a lot of fixed cost rationalisation. Then there was the servicing business for the dealerships and all those rust replacement parts.
@@ethelmini It does sound however like the common problem of not pricing quite high enough to cover future investment cost as well as operating costs, thus not reaping the full cost benefits of standardisation. Plus British factories tended to be overmanned with relatively low wages. This made them particularly vulnerable in the oil crisis and inflation of the early 1970s.
In the end, the BMC 9X became a victim of the tumultuous changes in management of the change from BMC to British Leyland. It wasn't until the late 1970's that BL finally started work on what became the Austin Metro.
Work started in '74 on what would become the Metro.
@@ethelmini And the Metro ultimately failed and did not outlive the Mini. Its last incarnation was the Rover Metro.
This could have been the saviour of BL. It's a shame they never took it in production.
George Turnbull who was mentioned in the video went off to Korea where he oversaw the start of the Hyundai success story, building and developing their own cars rather than assembling Ford cars and trucks.
Fascinating. It was clearly technically good and well designed, but would the boxy appearance have caught on compared to the cheeky curves of the Mini? It's reminiscent of the early Ford Fiesta or Fiat Panda. Could the aluminium cylinder head on a cast iron block have caused problems? Aluminium heads gave problems in the Triumph Stag/Dolomite, though partly because they were set at an angle.
a crying shame for such a genius
A lovely looking little car that could have turned the industry around for a bit, should have gone ahead.
Thankfully.
Way better then a Mini. And better looking.
Would love to own that 9x
It's crazy that they made the allegro and princess whilst not backing the BMC 9X.
If I've got this right, the 850cc mini engine/gearbox lump was the same weight as the 3.5 rover V8.
It would be interesting to compare the costs of production, sleeving down an engine would be a faff.
An opportunity we were lucky to miss-it was hideous.
I owned a new Mini from 1966 to 1970, when I bought a new BMW 2002! It was an absolute productional disaster with hardly anything really functioning, leaking in water from the front screen (!) and doors. Paint peeling off by the outside hinges and a distributor which couldn't function when driving behind another car, in rain! You had to keep a distance and then fast up before the engine cut from the water. It became my only English car. And my grandfathers first Morris Minor, could only be locked from the passenger side, I think to remember?
The Mini later got a plate in front of the distributor, but not mine.
The water in the distributor problem which also badly affected the A series in the Metro was easy to solve. The trick was to put a rubber washing up glove (Marigold type) over the distributor located at the front of the engine. One HT lead through each finger tip with a rubber band over the ends !
@@bigvinny333 I love it! That is my kind of fix 😊. Cheap, cheerful and effective!
@@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188 It took BL about 30 years to work that one out!
@bigvinny333 its was a glovely idea at the time 😂
“Such cute little Buzz-Bombs…”
BMC already had a fully developed replacement for the mini when they bought out innocenti mini in 1972, a three door hatchback built on mini mechanicals
Now I'm imagining Mr. Bean driving a 9X instead of a Mini.
What about a honda n360 aswell
I love the engineering that’s gone into this, but think it would need a restyle at the front and sides before having real showroom appeal even by the standards of the time. It just doesn’t look like a production-ready, million-selling car to me.
I agree. It looks like a squashed Renault 5 😅
It reminds me of the first Ford Fiesta that came to America in the mid seventies.
Front reminds me of a mk1 XR2!
This model went into production in the 1970s in Italy. It was frequently seen around Italy and I think France no doubt as an alternative to the Metro
That car was similar in many ways, but was a new body clothing (at least at first - the mechanicals later diverged) the running gear of the Mini. 9X was a complete replacement for the Mini, and a wholly new design by Issigonis. The two cars were strikingly similar though, so Innocenti’s designers and Issigonis were obviously thinking along the same lines.
Thank God that Horror never got the Nod.
Hindsight is a wonderful word armchair critics can use... You have to look at the frightening situation British Motor Holdings found itself in 1967-1968.. BMC had invested heavily in a new plant in Rhodesia and Iain Smith's nationalist government promptly nationalised it.. This caused a run on BMH's shares and there was no money in the pot anymore.. The truth of the Mini's unprofitability was staring them in the face.. Only traditional RWD models made money for BMC,, The transverse models crippled them on warranty costs,, of which I may say an awful lot of "fiddle" was going on with independent dealers which lead to Donald Stoke's cull in 1970.and developing the Marina.(But we are jumping ahead of ourselves) The simple reason why 9X never went ahead was ADO 61 (3 litre) and ADO 14 (Maxi) BMC. where absolutely hopeless at marketing advertising. and market research.. ADO 61 was announced at the 67 Motor show,,, but didn't arrive in the showrooms until nearly a year later,,, now you simply cant do that in the Motor industry,,, By which time the sparkle had died off and Zephyrs looked far more tempting out of the showrooms, this leads into the late 60's where Brand loyalty was also starting to fade and badges where all important ADO 6I should have carried the VP badge with suitable grill treatments... But never did.. As for ADO14 well the competitors cars to the ADO 16 (BMC 1100) where getting larger and in a rare move at BMC showing future market research, George Harman stormed into the CAB 1 drawing office in 1965 demanding them make a car to fit between the 1100 and 1800...Management then signed off construction of a totally new factory to assemble this new models new engine.. the E series,,, at Crofton Hackett (Without actually a car for it to go in yet!) This huge expense was why ADO14 shared the doors and sills with the 1800.. ADO 61 & 14 where worked on in parallel at CAB 1 with very little input from Issigonis himself,, though he liked to take the credit,, With this approach both models could fit easily into the ADO 17'S (1800) Production lines facilities at Cowley. Early on it was clear the short run off at the rear of 14 would mean it have a rear hinged tailgate and be an estate styled car, though a sedan was considered ,,, which lead Issigonis's team at much expense it appeared to design a really compact low slung independent hydrolastic rear system for it. When the Wilson's government (at the hand of Tony Benn) forced the shotgun merger of BMH and Leyland in 1968 George Turnbull wanted to can both the ADO 14 and 9X But ADO 14 was ready for production,, and was signed off and it could slide nicely into the 1800's production lines at Cowley despite the engines being brought in from Crofton,, this was why 9X was sadly shelved... a totally new floor pan needs a totally new production line facility, with hindsight an extended version of this platform could have been used on ADO 16's replacement... but the management didn't see that, the money simply wasn't there ... When it came to the chop upon merger what could be put into production quickly without huge financial risk got the green light,.... Turnbull did succeed in canning the ADO14 sedan (which was probably going to be called the "Morris 1500") and instead got work started on the ADO 28 (Marina) which from onset was a productionise quick high profit model.. Though of course he really got to build "his" Marina when he resigned from BL and went to work for Hyundai...
Which 'Sir' oversaw this project at BMC / BL?
BL could have gotten out of the boxes years ahead of VW and Renault as far as mini hatchbacks were concerned. Sir Alex must have been really miffed that they knocked him back!
Truly sad that the BMC 9X never got made, but marketing (and foreign production) came up with all these different marques with tiny differences between them. The mad years of British car production when there was so much consumer choice about the name and badge yet none about the quality.
Look, here's a revolutionary new car.
Ok I'll buy one.
Which would you prefer.
The new car.
No, you haven't understood. You must decide between a Morris Mini Minor and an Austin Seven
What's the difference?
One is a Morris Mini Minor and the other is an Austin Seven.
Which is better?
They're exactly the same .
The later contenders:
ARO Mini
Austin 850
Rover Mini
Austin Cooper
Austin Mini
Austin Partner
Austin Seven
Innocenti Mini
Leyland Mini
Morris 850
Morris Mascot
Morris Mini
Riley Elf
Wolseley 1000
Wolseley Horne
It's also worth pointing out that the mini went through six different Marks as improvements were made.
Me: I went for the Riley Elf, by far the more superior car!
I ❤️ My Mini
The Mini, in its own pudgy, cute way, was about as good looking as a small, boxy car could get. The 9X and Metro, like the early Golfs, were only tolerable for those who didn't care at all about looks. They looked like the display cases out of which they sometimes sell ice cream. Maybe if some of the innovations Issigonis had planned for the 9X had been gradually added to the Mini, BL could have kept it competitive without giving up its iconic status.
Looks like the front of a Reliant Robin and the back of a Yugo Zastava with the shape of a Ford Fiesta. with Mini wheels.
If I was the head of BMC, I’d most likely copy what was coming out of America at the time. If I was doing something like a Austin Mini, I’d most likely copy the Ford Falcon, Plymouth Valiant or Chevy Corvair. Mind you, I’d love to see a flat 8 or V8 version of the A or B-Series mills.
I think I'd have a look at what fiat was making at the time.
The Mini cars were so popular and they still are today. Never heard of the BMC. What is BMC stands for if they made cars back in those days.
British Motor Corporation. It was a merger of Austin/Morris/Rover/Jaguar/Daimler/Wolseley and others🇬🇧
No reversing lights?
My first Ford Fiesta didn't have reversing lights either, and that was made in 1982. My current one does but it's an obvious afterthought in the middle of the rear valance.
Peoples comments basically slag the design off, but think Honda E, it's not that far away
Blueprint for the Polo and Fiesta and 127 ect
Only British Leyland could say, no, we don't want to sell this newer better profitable car while we can still sell an older crapper non-profit making car.
By the time BL was created the industry was already in a terminal spiral - its problems could only be solved by massive investment in new product lines and infrastructure...and it didn't have the capital to do that. The 9X was a brilliant design that should have been a huge success, and answered nearly all the technical and commercial criticisms of the Mini. But it was an entirely new product (platform, body, drivetrain, engine) that would also have needed gutting whichever factory it would be built in, installing new and cutting edge production equipment and training workers with hitherto unknown skills - one of the big issues with the 9X engine (and why it was never adopted as an A-Series replacement) was that its design required assembly to tolerances that BL factories simply couldn't manage (see the Triumph V8 and Sprint engines as an example of how that can go wrong!)
BL was hugely undercapitalised - compares to Renault it had less than half the capital, had more than double the employees, 2/3 the fixed assets per employee, less than half the output per employee and made just over half as many cars. That's not a BL-specific problem; BMC was also hugely starved of capital investment and that is the big uniting issue of all British manufacturing industry in the 20th century - trying to do too much with too little.
BL simply didn't have the money to build the 9X, even if it (and its 10X and 11X spinoffs) could well have been the saviour of the company and the industry in the long term. In the short term the money wasn't there.
In an ideal world that's exactly where the government should have stepped in with a funding arrangement to get BL out of its hole and the 9X family into production. But, just like the management in the industry, the governments of the time lacked that long-term vision too.
@@jozg44 Thanks for the reply. I didn't know many of the things you say here.
@@jozg44 perfect final paragraph
@@kaitlyn__L I think the comparison with Renault is always interesting when it comes to British Leyland; the French government nationalised (expropriated, more accurately) Renault in the 1940s and it was then run and funded with the long-term vision of building Renault into a globally competitive car maker. The French state poured a fortune into Renault with new factories (in France and abroad), new tooling, new R&D facilities and subsidies/support that effectively amounted to 'buying' Renault a share in key markets. When rationalisation and redundancies were made the government basically paid off the workforce with generous settlement packages. Renault was grown on a 25-year plan..and it worked. Renault became one of Europe's Big Three and a global force, while being more productive and successful than BMC or BL ever was. When you tot up the various bailouts and support packages given to BL and the decades of losses and written off costs, it cost much less for the French state to turn Renault into a success than it cost the British state to turn BL into a failure.
And that's because the British government always saw itself as a rescuer, not a manager. The funding was always just enough to stop the company collapsing and (a cynical person might say...) prevent job losses before the next election. But the amounts given were never enough to actually solve the root problems and the plans never looked far enough into the future or had a goal of what BL was going to look like in 10, 15 or 20 years. And so the industry staggered from crisis to crisis, always being shocked back to life but never actually cured. In France Renault benefited from 25 years of sustained political and financial support towards one goal - with a successful result.
The 9X could have been BL's 'Renault 4' moment in that regard, but it was never going to be.
If BMC remained independent and focused solely on Austin, Morris and MG they'd probably still be around and flourishing today
Correct, badge engineering doesn't work. The old pre war manufacturers were gone, as you say they should have kept to a few names and concentrated on quality.
So THAT's the missing link between the Mini and the Metro!
except it isnt. the metro and mini hand independent suspension all around (be it hydrolastic/ rubber/springs) front and rear subframes. this carried all through to the k-seires metros and mgf-tf. the BMC 9X was a macferson strut and beam axle car, think vauxhall nova, renault 5, fiat panda. This was obviously the smart way to go in a small economy car. the mini, and metro (a-series and k-series) were imho waaay to complicated for their intended market. Full disclosure I own a turbo k-series classic mini. so love them, but no doubt British layland really missed the mark by not following the 9x through.
No, it's the mini with all the bad bits replaced, the metro was all the bad bits of the mini, but in a new shell.
Thought it was like a prototype Metro with Simca front at first.
Can see all the Metro lines even rear lights, gimmee a 6R4.
Still a good car in 1980 my mom had the 1300 HLS and MG Metro in 82, nippy round town.
Not quite. Check out ADO74 and ADO88.
When they began trying to productionise the 9X engine they discovered that it wasn't possible to have any tolerances in too many measurements and it basically couldn't be mass-produced without a significant redesign.
One really has to wonder how Britain ever got an empire together with such massive incompetence among every single toff.
"Without modification... holding on to the same outward appearance as when it was new when introduced (in 1959)"? Estate car (Traveller and Countryman, 1960), Riley Elf and Wolseley Hornet (1961), Moke (1964), Clubman front (1969), larger rear window and rear lights (1967), 12" and later 13" wheels ...
Maybe it would have been better put as “the Mini at the end of 41 years of production being recognisably the same car as the original”? That would have allowed for the numerous variations in that 41 year span.
Good point well made
I wish he had learned to pronounce Sir Alex's Surname properly Go Nis not Gone Is...
@@BungleBare Plenty of commonality between a 1999 MPI & a 1959 850 - and everything in between.
Engineers: “Let’s innovate!”
Accountants: “Sounds too expensive.”
Also accountants: “BTW, we’re losing money on every unit we sell.”
Management: “Excellent 😈”
The workers: “WTF?!”
Never quite got the argument for the mini engine since the Morris Minor was using pretty much the same engine and was always frugal. That was the OHV rather than the Morris side valve which made sense given the Austin Morris Merger. But I think with hindsight given the amounts of money involved, though miniscule today, were substantial then it's unfair to criticise management. Mini never made money, Minor did, so the question has to be why?
You could say this car was a prototype for the Austin Metro launched in 1980.
I think it's fair to say that the 1970's was a pretty disastrous decade for the UK, and it's no wonder the reputation of British car manufacturers went through the floor, and British industry in general started to collapse across the board.
I hope we don't repeat the mistakes of the 70's in the 2020's......but so far the signs are not encouraging.
There are beginning to be eerie parallels between the 1970's and the 2020's. It's like the clock has come full circle. It's all starting to feel abit '1976'.
Yers, no thanks in the least to decimalisation.
@@leoroverman4541 ....ok god here we go again. Next you'll say we should still be using Imperial measurements!
It had nothing to do with decimalisation, and everything to do with the fact we sat on our laurels for too long after WW2 - basking in our victory and knee deep in navel gazing.
While Japan, and Germany frantically worked at building back all their industries - and America went into overdrive, Britain sat back admiring itself, getting caught up in Beatlemania, and getting way too giddy over England's World Cup triumph. Then generally destroying any nice old building in any city in the UK that the Luftwaffe didn't destroy.
We completely destroyed our railways in the he 60's and 70's and we'll.and truly trashed a fine legacy the Victorians had left us.
In addition, all this time we could have invested much more heavily in our main industries in order to maintain competitiveness with Germany and Japan - like our car industry.
But we were too deluded to do any of this, due to our misplaced view that we were the best and didn't need to improve in any way.
By the time we did start putting money in our car industry (early 70's just before the oil crisis) and other key industries, it was already too late to safe it.
Then 1976 happened and the writing was on the wall for a tough new leader to emerge later that decade.....who would take Britain into a completely different direction.
Our complacency during the 60's and 70's ensured Thatcher would happen, and the 1980's being like they were. Had we looked after our industries better during the 60's and 70's, the 80's would not have been as brutal as it was here in the UK.
@@robtyman4281 TBF do you actually remember decimalisation, we didn't dispense with imperial, we kept the penny and the pound. The only bit we got rid of was in between. and reduced the 240 to 100, and that caused inflation, reduced demand etc.
@@robtyman4281 Good morning. You did not respond to my question were you there when decimalisation happened? It is fashionable to say that it had nothing to do with it. In fact it was closely linked to the sudden avalanche of cars we could import as part of the accession in 1973. Part of the problem was the state of the pound was over priced for export purposes. The other factor was the state of European manufacturing after the last war and the other was restrictive practices used by the Unions for their own ends.
The problem was this if the pound had 240 pence it was uncompliant with the EEC standard currencies of 100 units. One concept was a pound of 1000 pence which might have helped given the unit price of production was the penny. What in effect happened was that all prices roughly became 2.4 times more expensive so what could be sold sub 10/- (50 p) these days had to be sold for a pound and demand reduced accordingly.
If you are not in your 70's you won't get that. The average salary in the early seventies was iro £4,500 or so and foreign cars were more expensive. It became the norm that if you had the cash it was a foreign car you bought out of the sheer novelty.
As to your point about Japan and Germany don't forget that we exported our tech to Japan to aide them and R.Engineers pulled together Wolfsburg for VW.
In short by making our cars uncompetitive, we opened the door to European product-which subsequently killed our car market.
@@leoroverman4541 ....the world changes - get over it. I suppose you voted for Brexit did you? .....and 'assumed' we could just pick up where we left off in 1973. Thought that by leaving the EU we could have our Empire back did you? (eye roll).
It's mainly Boomers like you who are responsible for the utter mess the UK is in right now. And don't tell me you not only support Boris, but think he's been hard done by.
The current government have done the bare minimum for us since coming out of the pandemic. They have used any excuse under the sun to deflect from their incompetence.
Europe was always going to come together after WW2 - this was a given.....so it was inevitable that we would join the EU (then the EEC).
The fact that by doing so killed our car industry as you seem to think, says more about the UK government of the day than being 'undercut'.
We couldn't complete with BMW, Mercedes, and Audi back then, and instead came up with the Austin Allegro, and the Morris Marina - neither of which were ever going to frighten BMW or give the (then) new 3 series a run for its money. Or VW, with the (then) new Golf, and Polo. Or even Renault, with the 5.
The government weren't prepared to properly invest in our car industry, so that we COULD turn out cars that would make BMW sweat - and thus is why our car industry withered and died.
In answer to your question about whether I was around at the time the UK switched to decimalisation - no I wasn't. I was born in 1973 - the year we joined the EEC. But I know enough about history to have a reasonable idea as to what I"m talking about - even if I didn't live that time of change.
Blaming the EU is so lazy, but typical of the Boomer generation. Why not look closer to home, because you will find that's where alot of our problems over the decades come from.
Mostly from Tory governments who are utterly self serving, obsessed with privatising everything so they can benefit personally in some way, while punishing ordinary people. It's the story of the Tories. It was like this 50 years ago, and it's like this today. It will never change.
Oh boy, a whole new OHC engine, I bet the teething pains of that new driveline would have damn near sunk this model. It's sad that England's auto industry were so often taken down with good designs put into production poorly enough that they reach legendary status as the worst engine made, and in most cases just a bit more development would have fixed that. Take the Stag V8 and Rover 3500, which was made on GM tooling, both capable engines, but the stag being prone to all sorts of problems which if developed further would have been solved.
The Maxi engine was a disappointment as well, in what was otherwise a rather ingenious and practical car. I had the 1750 and it had loads of torque but couldn't be revved.
The English answer to the French Citroen 2CV.
I thought the replacement for the mini was the metro? Same engine ect
There were half a dozen other projects started with the aim to replace the mini before the Metro finally came out.
6:43 knockers