Armin Shimerman as Quark is AMAZING in this episode. Just look at the emotion on his face. It's one of his very best performances and he was frankly one of the best actors on the show.
Despite the controversy of the dominion war arc. Star Trek handled it quite gracefully. The war was never glorified and the victories were mostly hollow and humble. It shows how exactly war is treated in a galaxy where it is mostly frowned upon.
What's the controversy around it? I love this whole arc, i also love how the jem hadar are shown as another victim in the dominion war, specially in the episode where they know their Vorta will betray them, but they still go on to battle, cus they were engineered to obey. So sad.
@@sat.chid.ananda True, the Federation brass considers the Jem'Hadar to be as bad as the Borg, but like the Borg they're all manipulated to do what their overseers command.
The thing I *loved* about that part of this whole scene is how Quark had previously been talking about how humans can, in a dangerous environment, turn into pretty much *the* most dangerous creature in the galaxy and that the Ferengi wouldn't have let things get that far. Only for him to literally guard his nephew with his body (see how his arm was stretched out?) and shot the Jem'Hadar out of anger.
Truly this was one of hte best Star Trek episodes of all time and it encapsulates what made DS9 so great. Sure Rodenberry's vision of a perfect world was all well and good but it was so interesting to watch the tension between those ideals and the reality of war in this episode and others like it in DS9
shootybaking Well I think TOS had already said this using some other species as example. Vulcans do not born with logic，they achieved it through intense training and Kolinahr. Even then all it takes is for the once per 7 years Pon farr to take all these truth away. The federation is still rock solid，it‘s just that DS9 remind us how hard reality really is，because TNG era people started to took all the things federation could offer for granted，not realizing that it took hardwork and endurance to preserve all these wonderful environment.
once in 100 years major war happens. ENT Romulans TOS Klingons TNG\DS9 Dominion * Post TNG - Pakleds (I couldn`t resist lol) 26-th century Sphere builders or whatever they`re called, Xindi friends kind of
why would one want to see war in a utopian society? DS9 showed Starfleet not giving a shit about lives lost due to their massively false tactical decisions. ON DS9 Roddenberry's utopia ended. It waa a very religious-based, war-hungry series.
This episode really shows how grousome the battle with the dominion was... and on this day Nog showed his true colors... he's more federation than most humans are, and in my heart i know Nog one day became a captain. Sisko would be proud. Hell even Quark showed a heart on this one
Quark by this point has some serious Klingon street cred. Not only did he save a Klingon house from dishonor, but he's killed 3 Jem'Hadar in personal combat. Two while breaking his brother out of prison on DS9, and this one here. At this point Quark has a modest but impressive string of personal victories under his belt. if he went back into the Empire he'd be hailed as a great warrior.
DS9 presented a grittier side to the Star Trek universe. Whether it be the Cardassian/Bajoran conflict or this as we see here with the Jem'Hadar. It went a long way toward giving us a story that many of us can relate to. All of the Trek series had a way of communicating something important and relevant to situations going on in our lives. DS9 will always be my favorite, followed by TNG and then Voyager.
Man, how many battles was Bashir involved in? He was fighting the Jem'hadar here, and there was at least one other where he was involved in a battle against the Klingons. Although he wasn't fighting in that one, he volunteered to go to a planet under attack and endured artillery fire to retrieve equipment from a shuttle. He was also recruited to spy on the Romulans by Section 31. Maybe its just me, but I think he should've been given a medal, especially given he isn't an actual soldier.
@@jkeelsnc Worf had long since abandoned the idea that humans couldn't be brave and honorable. Both Picard and Sisko had Klingon honor as far as he was conerned. Bashir as a softspoken healer who could kill when he had to, would have had Bashir's respect almost immediately.
Quark bags himself a Jemhadar. Quarks kill count 1 Jemhadar after Cisco throws him a phaser in the reveal of the dominion. 2 Jemhadar when freeing the DS9 resistance to stop the minfield from being taken down. 1 Jemhadar in the video above. Led a mission resulting in 2 Jemhadar killed and 1 Vorta Captured. Patricipated in a mission disabling a Dominion shipyard as Son of Keldar. I think Quark can make most Klingons jealous with his record, defiantly earned the title Son of Keldar.
I don't know where this idea that Qaurk can't fight comes from really. He, like Garak, prefers a more indirect route, but also like Garak, can definitely kill when he needs to.
Its the dramatic episodes like this one that really show the true talent of these actors. Quark (and the whole Ferengi race) are the token comic relief characters, but Armin really shone in this episode. Through all of the prosthetics, he and Rene could portray such deep emotion.
Sisko : (overlooking the field of battle, littered with the dead of both sides) "We held" Reese : (deadpan answer) "Those were our orders sir" an incredible episode summed up in that scene right there.
This is probably one of the darkest episodes of all of Star Trek, but is undoubtedly one of the best. There is so much that happens to both Nog and Quark.
Yeah yeah, I know, Roddenberry, peaceful vision of the future, whatever, but this was great. It was great, because of the utopian ideals of the federation. You liked the Federation and Starfleet, you knew they were good institutions with good men, you knew who they were fighting and why, and then seeing Starfleet personnel so battered was tragic, as well as the sacrifice of the "greedy ferengi" who we'd seen grow up from being a kid with Jake-O, now losing his leg in a war! Powerful stuff.
Every time the military, or even Starfleet, has gained power in the Federation it has attempted a coup. The Federation's relationship with its own military is incredibly rocky.
You can dream for a perfect world an hope that the universe is all nice and sweet, but it does not work that way. There will always be someone or something out there that has a different point of view than you. Someone willing to fight and kill. So while you can create a "Perfect Society" always remember the Latin phrase Si vis pacem, para bellum. If you want peace, prepare for war.
That slow motion shot of the Jem Hadar about to finish off Sisko looks so cool. Even as a kid I thought it was so badass. I loved every season of DS9, especially the latter ones focused on the Dominion War
Quark always an important character in any episode he is in because he is a realist unlike most of the other characters who are positive or negative about things
That's not a "nice video". That's the most violent and dark scene in Star Trek history- and it's brilliant. I love the bit where Quark blasts the Jem'Hadar which breaks into sickbay.
These are the episodes that caused Rick Berman concern saying this wasn't roddenberry version of star trek. i.e. death seen from afar not up close and personal. But i think these episodes shows life can be the same now as in the 24th Century. which i think makes it more real.
Resident Evil Wiki The Jem'Hadar dampening field meant they were restricted in what settings they could use. If you watch earlier in the episode this is explained.
+Stefan Ritter (StahlRitter) apparently star fleet calibrated the weapons to penetrate those personal shields so they weren't as powerful in the first episodes with them. Personally, I think the writers forgot.
In the original series they had Photon Grenade Mortar during the battle with the Gorn on Cestus III so I'd assume the Federation arsenal probably has some heavier weapons for defensive purposes.
Quark has Klingon honor! He killed at least 3 Jem"Hadar in open battle to save his kinsmen. Two to save Rom, one to save Nog. While not naturally courageous he could rise to the occasion when it truly matters. Klingons respect that level of bravery all the more when it comes in a small, easily intimidated package. I could imagine Klingon nobles from Grilka's house coming up with a tasteful way to work Quark's heroism into their symbology. After all, the man faced down D'Ghor for them, then killed 3 Jem'Hadar in personal combat during the war. Few Klingon warriors could claim to have done as well. He may not be married to Grilka anymore but he's still a member of their House (or at least, he was never formally expelled from it!) and his victories brought them great honor..
QUARK BECAME A HERO!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D This episode was perhaps the scariest dominion war episode to me. ;( The fact that it was ALL OUT BATTLEFIELD COMBAT made it seem like ANY cast members could die!
This is why they need MACOs. Having no specialised military in a galaxy where it is proven that the Federation will continually get butthurt is just stupid. MACO detachments on board Federation vessels could have stopped almost all ship take-overs that are seen in the shows and would have saved thousands, if not millions of lives in the wars. The idea of the Federation being a solely peaceful faction is just stupid.
You make a great point though the MACOs were introduced after DS9 in Enterprise. But clearly this episode and the entire Dominion story arc showed that the Federation badly needed professional soldiers.
There's more than enough tech available to stop a boarding action, the writers just rarely used it because there would be no drama in easy victories. Going by the tech manuals, every part of the ship can be isolated from any other with security force fields at the push of a button. any part can be flooded with knock-out gas, and the transporters can be extremely effective as well. Boarding a ship should only stand a chance in hell when it's so blown to shit that nothing works anymore and by then it's not worth capturing anyway.
Ehh, the problem with that from the Federation's perspective is that Starfleet has already attempted multiple coups. There's a huge power imbalance right now in the Federation, Starfleet has way too much power, and the Federation Council far too little. Giving Starfleet even more power would just make the coups come thicker and faster as individual admirals amass enough power to make moves One of the reasons Starfleet has never abandoned its pseudocivilian trappings is the Federation Council is afraid of them If there were MACOs, they would pretty much have to be their own thing. A Federation ground forces unit answerable to the Council and the President, but not necessarily Starfleet. Basically rebuilding the Army and Airforce to prevent the Navy from holding all the cards.
I can't help but think that a modern machine gun could have completely suppressed this attack. It would have turned that narrow canyon into an absolute meat grinder.
I was just thinking that. Or even a Gatling. I love the portability factor and the need of one charger for phaser rifle over carrying multiple ammo clips. But there's no question even with submachine guns like the P90 would've handled that entire attack force useless.
The music, the lack of talking, and of course Armin's emotional expressions...this part was just gorgeous, and you didn't see things like this on TV in the 90s. I could never understand the hate DS9 got, cause it was a brilliant show. Probably the best Trek in a long time.
@@hisdudeness8328 Kinda wish they'd shown a scene after the battle with Quark standing there, no jacket, drenched with sweat, shirt torn, still between Nog and the door, breathing hard, eyes wide, panicking, you know, at his high strung best, and then the camera pans out to like 15-20 dead Jem'Hadar in that hallway.
Someone once asked me why Starfleet doesn't use wide angle settings in these situations. The explanation is simple enough, wide angle does not do as much damage, requires a moment to reset if you don't need it anymore, and in close quarters you don't want to hit allies. If you are fighting Jem'Hadar then focused damage is needed, and it will almost always get to close quarters. And most phasers, at least the ones I know can only be set for wide angle stun.
Set 2-3 to wide, use one after another to give them reload. The rest takes care of anyone who survived with focused shots. It's rather simple to counter all the disadvantage widespread has if you leave it to only a few ones. That being g said, I think it would have been bad storewise. This episode wanted to portray the horrors of war in a difficult situation, and that it is well with focused fire.
The Jem'hadar have natural armor underneath an armored weave (some have been shown with even more than that). These Phasers are firing tight beam with a high power output. Jem'hadar were resistant to all but the highest phaser settings. Because of this, the idea of rapid firing weapons was out of the question, seeing as the Phasers drew power from a power pack. The faster you shot, usually the lower the damage output. You could overcharge it for medium/high power pulses and/or a wide beam, and usually lacked the punch required to fight the Jem'hadar. Doing either option also eats through power packs, and in this episode, the unit had been stuck on the planet for 5 months, and were vey low on everything, including power packs. They did what they could with what they had.
I think the vic song that was playing before the charge would have made this even more painful. That shit is haunting as to waht was about to take place!
it's basically Stormtroopers vs Clone Troopers. Although in this case, the clones have no armor or mechanized force, so the battle would be extremely one sided.
You know, this was just a strait-up fight. A squad of Vietnam era soldiers with M-16s could have fought this just as well. And while we're at it, a few damn grenades might have been helpful. WHEN YOUR ENEMY IS BUNCHED UP - USE GRENADES!
You know, the episode was directed by a Vietnam vet, and it shows, bigtime. The whole fighting over a patch of nothing concept came from his own experiences in the war.
Nostripe361 Actually, the producers limited what Starfleet could and could not do in order to make it clear they're not an actual military (to keep with Roddenberry's vision). It might make it somewhat more dramatic - that their loathing of being seen as a military means they only supply people with rifles as a standard. As a side note, the producers wouldn't even let characters beam into a room crouching; that made it seem like they were expecting combat. It wasn't until the MACOs arrived in 'Enterprise' that it was allowed and even then they might have only done it once.
You’d think the Federation would invest in some machine gun-esqe weapons, or perhaps even bring out some old LMGs into battle. Look at that wide area of fire just waiting to be covered
He was a cook on a Ferengi ship, and he kept a disruptor pistol handy because of the crew itself. When he went to grab it in Way of the Warrior, Rom had dismantled it and used the parts to fix the replicators. The exchange that follows that revelation always cracks me up. "I will kill him!" - Quark "With what?" - Odo
Ferengi might be greedy oppotunists, but they are not warlike warriors or killers.... And it shows. Quark just wants to run his little bar in peace, he never signed up for any of this.
I couldn't agree more, a couple of squads of modern INF would have torn them apart. Yeah It's nice not having to reload every 30 shots (and ammo is heavy) but the phaser rifle is definitely not a INF weapon. Hell an a couple of American WW2 INF squads would have put them is serious jeopardy. Discounting the ship in orbit, purely on a INF level, the piece of non medical equipment I covet the most is the tri-corder.
@djslapdash Funny thing is, I just saw this episode and thought it was fantastic. Having sat through the awfulness of the whole of Voyager before seeing DS9, I have to say I am really impressed with the latter as a show, Trek or otherwise. I have a great nostalgia for TNG, but the whole Trek 'humans are so awesome' line never really sold to me. DS9 is the first Trek outside the movies that IMO portrays a believable universe.
@BanjoOz I had the same feeling. I saw DS9 years after it went off the air. Before I saw DS9, I was under the delusion that Voyager was a good Trek show. Now the episodes are almost unwatchable.
Hmmm it is just an imagination but how about a DS9 relaunch in a GoT-quality? This would be awesome, an it is possible to avoid some logical issues like no fullx automatic phasers, no Photontorpedo airstrikes or else.
Phasers, yes, photon torpedoes no. The torpedoes are entirely too powerful to be used that way. Each one is a 64 megaton explosive, more powerful than any nuke ever detonated on Earth. You launch one at a ground target you vaporize everything between 50-100 miles of ground zero, and destroy or massively damage another 200 miles of blast radius. They're WMDs, not tactical weapons.
Get rid of phasers. the battle would have been fought far better and more deadlier if the Federation used old style machine guns like the Germans did during the Normandy Invasion. Set up several fortified pill boxes with three machine guns each surrounding the compound the the enemy would never have gotten close. The only reason the Americans won and didn't pull back, despite their own superior numbers, was that the Germans ran out of ammunition. Had they an unlimited supply, then the Omaha Beach invasion at least would have failed.
Too bad they forgot about the wide field settings on their phaser rifles. Or the concept of long range snipers. Or artillery. Or air support. Or tanks.
This is why I never bought the idea that starfleet doesn't have an army because it is not needed, most fans will say something along the lines of, if you have ships that can bomb everything from space you don't need an army. The problem with that line of thinking is, what if you don't want to bomb from space, what if you want to capture territory or in this case hold it. What if you want to keep the cities and infrastructure intact, and its people alive. Will starfleet just kindly ask the Jem'hadar to leave after defeating their ships protecting a planet. What if they refuse what do you do now. Asking a bunch of button pushers to defend or take a position is silly and stupid. You need real ground troops trained in ground warfare to do so. You need a freaking army with futuristic tanks and assault vehicles maybe something along the lines of the Argo buggy from Nemesis just with more armor. You need soldiers trained in properly defending a position with multiple lines of defense and not wear stupidly coloured uniforms that make you stand out like a disco ball. And for crying out loud SPREAD OUT MORE.
Ever see the TOS episode A Piece of the Action? In it, Kirk Spock and McCoy are in a building completely surrounded by gangsters armed with fully automatic submachine guns. Kirk calls up the Enterprise and has them hit them all with a phaser strike using the ship phasers set to stun. Yes, they can do that! It works perfectly, all the gangsters surrounding the building drop unconscious instantly. Done. You're using outdated thinking revolving around modern day weapons and tactics. With starships, that all goes out the window. Control of orbit IS control of the ground. When you can precision stun entire groups of enemies using starship weapons, when you can target their weapons and equipment with your transporter beam and leave them completely disarmed in seconds, when you can do the same thing to fortifications and heavy weapons emplacements... sorry but ground troops are useless and helpless. Step one, their weapons and equipment vanish. Step two, they fall unconscious. Step three, they wake up in a holding cell. All done in less than a minute by a guy sitting high above pressing buttons on a control panel.
Funfact: This episode is actually rated 16 in Germany along with a few other episodes in Star Trek's history such as Patterns of Force, The Killing Game and Living Witness
I guess with more time and money they would have used such concepts like suppressve fire, snipers, artillery, flanking, Orbital bombings (1 photon torpedo=50 megatons TNT) in the show, but for one Episode it was not enough. In modern Star Trek it would perhaps be possible. So imagine simply it happens like that and enjoy Deep Space Nine for its good plot!
Melt the rock beneath their feet (we see phasers can do this) to halt the advance, then blast the rocks above to bury them. Starfleet are not known for their tactical brilliance. Hence why the "Picard Maneuver" is considered so radical...get close quickly and fire. What a concept!
even though the federation mostly fight enemies who favour melee combat (dominion jem'hadars and klingons), they have yet to provide their troops with any form of armor... a 12th century soldier would be able to withstand much more with only a bit of chainmail heck, why don't they equip their phaser rifles with bayonets??
It is ridiculous to think that people of the future has not invented laser/phaser weapons that can penetrate through something as simple as rocks, or weapons that are solely dependent on hand movements rather than auto-aim/toogle ability to hit opponents with one shot. The writers of the story just happen to take advantage of the emotional outcome of the scene and utilize the tactics and similar weapon effectiveness of a 20th century battle.
in this case the normally versitile phaser rifle was reduced to a trench warfare weapon due to the Jem H'dar being so heavily resistant to lower energy levels. In order for the rifles to take them down, they had to be on a very high setting and tuned for narrow beams to penetrate their natural armor. They were also low on supplies and not getting any backup, so expending the rifle's power packs with heavy use of wide emitters would have been both ineffective and wasteful. Lastly, the rifle's can auto target things using their built in sensor systems and IFF discriminators, but the Jem H'dar are also able to be invisible to sensors, and even beam in through shields, making it impossible to do more than point and shoot.
According to the tech manuals, a hand phaser can most certainly penetrate rocks. In fact, on higher settings they can create "explosive decoupling" of large amounts of solid rock or even metals with detonation more powerful than most field artillery. That is never shown on screen, and later writers seemed to forget all sorts of capabilities of future weapons shown and written in older works in favor of nerfing weapons to a more familiar 20th century level. This was so they could write battle scenes in a way they understood rather than actually thinking through what future tactics using such powerful weapons would actually be.
Is it me, or does it seem like the Federation needs some less advanced, more effective weapons? A couple of light machine guns set up on the perimeter would have been pretty dang effective at stopping the Jem'Hadar charge here. They also could have used mortar support. It's odd to me that the Federation has regressed to semi-automatic weapons that can be stopped from working in a dampening field instead of more effective, if older, weapons.
@@ff3player If Jem'Hadar can be stabbed with knives and swords, which they can, it's safe to assume that a bullet would penetrate it. There are ways around it even if their skin is tough, like using tritanium tipped rounds or something.
Armin Shimerman as Quark is AMAZING in this episode. Just look at the emotion on his face. It's one of his very best performances and he was frankly one of the best actors on the show.
And he conveyed all that nuance through two inches of facial prosthetics
Despite the controversy of the dominion war arc. Star Trek handled it quite gracefully. The war was never glorified and the victories were mostly hollow and humble. It shows how exactly war is treated in a galaxy where it is mostly frowned upon.
What's the controversy around it? I love this whole arc, i also love how the jem hadar are shown as another victim in the dominion war, specially in the episode where they know their Vorta will betray them, but they still go on to battle, cus they were engineered to obey. So sad.
@@sat.chid.ananda True, the Federation brass considers the Jem'Hadar to be as bad as the Borg, but like the Borg they're all manipulated to do what their overseers command.
@@sat.chid.ananda Man that episode was cold that ending charge did show exactly what you stated
You can't sneak up on a Ferengi; not with those ears.
Them satellite dishes are no joke
worse, with is superior hearing he can hear the fight outside fully, including all people dieing.
This is why I love Quark, despite his shortcomings he put himself in front of his nephew and did what was necessary to defend him.
The thing I *loved* about that part of this whole scene is how Quark had previously been talking about how humans can, in a dangerous environment, turn into pretty much *the* most dangerous creature in the galaxy and that the Ferengi wouldn't have let things get that far. Only for him to literally guard his nephew with his body (see how his arm was stretched out?) and shot the Jem'Hadar out of anger.
Truly this was one of hte best Star Trek episodes of all time and it encapsulates what made DS9 so great. Sure Rodenberry's vision of a perfect world was all well and good but it was so interesting to watch the tension between those ideals and the reality of war in this episode and others like it in DS9
It made it dark and dirty, and so memorable. To watch these Federation people have to be down there fighting in a place that wasn't "The Federation"
shootybaking Well I think TOS had already said this using some other species as example. Vulcans do not born with logic，they achieved it through intense training and Kolinahr. Even then all it takes is for the once per 7 years Pon farr to take all these truth away. The federation is still rock solid，it‘s just that DS9 remind us how hard reality really is，because TNG era people started to took all the things federation could offer for granted，not realizing that it took hardwork and endurance to preserve all these wonderful environment.
once in 100 years major war happens.
ENT Romulans
TOS Klingons
TNG\DS9 Dominion
* Post TNG - Pakleds (I couldn`t resist lol)
26-th century Sphere builders or whatever they`re called, Xindi friends kind of
I think Gene would have liked this. It`s not sappy or too dark, probably just right.
why would one want to see war in a utopian society? DS9 showed Starfleet not giving a shit about lives lost due to their massively false tactical decisions. ON DS9 Roddenberry's utopia ended. It waa a very religious-based, war-hungry series.
and now you see why Quark is son of Keldon! His victories over the Jem H'dar bring honor to the great Klingon House!
Grilka wanted to hit that
Keldar
Didnt they get a divorce
@@davidhernendezd yes but they still hook up
Slaying an enemy in defense of the heir to your house is greatly honorable, and slaying a Jem'Hadar warrior is always a plus.
This episode really shows how grousome the battle with the dominion was... and on this day Nog showed his true colors... he's more federation than most humans are, and in my heart i know Nog one day became a captain. Sisko would be proud. Hell even Quark showed a heart on this one
He actually did became a captain in Star Trek Online
Quark by this point has some serious Klingon street cred. Not only did he save a Klingon house from dishonor, but he's killed 3 Jem'Hadar in personal combat. Two while breaking his brother out of prison on DS9, and this one here.
At this point Quark has a modest but impressive string of personal victories under his belt. if he went back into the Empire he'd be hailed as a great warrior.
DS9 presented a grittier side to the Star Trek universe. Whether it be the Cardassian/Bajoran conflict or this as we see here with the Jem'Hadar. It went a long way toward giving us a story that many of us can relate to. All of the Trek series had a way of communicating something important and relevant to situations going on in our lives. DS9 will always be my favorite, followed by TNG and then Voyager.
Ande it did it in great way. Not like Discovery.
@@mirracze or Picard. I even like Enterprise more than discovery or Picard and it took me so long to convince myself to watch that
this was a great episode for Armin Shimerman
Yes it was
Amazing who he conveys such emotion through layers of latex and without dialogue. Shimerman was just a next level actor.
Man, how many battles was Bashir involved in? He was fighting the Jem'hadar here, and there was at least one other where he was involved in a battle against the Klingons. Although he wasn't fighting in that one, he volunteered to go to a planet under attack and endured artillery fire to retrieve equipment from a shuttle. He was also recruited to spy on the Romulans by Section 31. Maybe its just me, but I think he should've been given a medal, especially given he isn't an actual soldier.
@@jkeelsnc Worf had long since abandoned the idea that humans couldn't be brave and honorable. Both Picard and Sisko had Klingon honor as far as he was conerned. Bashir as a softspoken healer who could kill when he had to, would have had Bashir's respect almost immediately.
Quark shooting the Jem'Hadar while protecting Nog will always be one of my favorite moments of his
Quark bags himself a Jemhadar. Quarks kill count
1 Jemhadar after Cisco throws him a phaser in the reveal of the dominion.
2 Jemhadar when freeing the DS9 resistance to stop the minfield from being taken down.
1 Jemhadar in the video above.
Led a mission resulting in 2 Jemhadar killed and 1 Vorta Captured.
Patricipated in a mission disabling a Dominion shipyard as Son of Keldar.
I think Quark can make most Klingons jealous with his record, defiantly earned the title Son of Keldar.
There is also that drunk Klingon he accidentally killed.v
I don't know where this idea that Qaurk can't fight comes from really. He, like Garak, prefers a more indirect route, but also like Garak, can definitely kill when he needs to.
1:58
Say what you will about Quark, he sure has one hell of a quick draw.
I think Quark already should have had his weapon drawn under the circumstances IMHO and he should have been facing points of attack.
Its the dramatic episodes like this one that really show the true talent of these actors. Quark (and the whole Ferengi race) are the token comic relief characters, but Armin really shone in this episode. Through all of the prosthetics, he and Rene could portray such deep emotion.
Agreed. Armin and Rene were next level actors.
Sisko : (overlooking the field of battle, littered with the dead of both sides) "We held"
Reese : (deadpan answer) "Those were our orders sir"
an incredible episode summed up in that scene right there.
They should have put Reese in charge of training a new generation of Starfleet MACOs
M.A.C.O. Really needs to make a comeback for Star Fleet if it plans to survive.
they did come back in STO... not surprising, given all the shit that comes down in that game that's fallout from everything else.
It's never gonna happen in Alpha canon. Starfleet would sooner develop its own marine corps than bring back M.A.C.O.
Or at the very least bring back Body Armour for Starfleet Security…
I had a complete meltdown watching this scene.
Amazing use of of music.
Amazing use of everything.
Brilliant.
This is probably one of the darkest episodes of all of Star Trek, but is undoubtedly one of the best. There is so much that happens to both Nog and Quark.
Yeah yeah, I know, Roddenberry, peaceful vision of the future, whatever, but this was great. It was great, because of the utopian ideals of the federation. You liked the Federation and Starfleet, you knew they were good institutions with good men, you knew who they were fighting and why, and then seeing Starfleet personnel so battered was tragic, as well as the sacrifice of the "greedy ferengi" who we'd seen grow up from being a kid with Jake-O, now losing his leg in a war! Powerful stuff.
Every time the military, or even Starfleet, has gained power in the Federation it has attempted a coup. The Federation's relationship with its own military is incredibly rocky.
Still get chills watching Quark protect Nog from that Jem Ha’dar. It was his finest moment.
You can dream for a perfect world an hope that the universe is all nice and sweet, but it does not work that way. There will always be someone or something out there that has a different point of view than you. Someone willing to fight and kill. So while you can create a "Perfect Society" always remember the Latin phrase Si vis pacem, para bellum. If you want peace, prepare for war.
Preach it
Foolish Jem'Hadar, getting in range of the mighty Sisko fist
That slow motion shot of the Jem Hadar about to finish off Sisko looks so cool. Even as a kid I thought it was so badass. I loved every season of DS9, especially the latter ones focused on the Dominion War
I never looked at this episode the same way after I came home from Iraq!
Quark always an important character in any episode he is in because he is a realist unlike most of the other characters who are positive or negative about things
Imagine hearing all of suffering in perfect clarity. The screams, the shots.
*The fact they're getting ever so closer.*
Ah, the Jem'Hadar use the classic battle strategy that we humans know as ZERG RUSH!
"This was a great victory. Worthy of story and song."
That's not a "nice video". That's the most violent and dark scene in Star Trek history- and it's brilliant. I love the bit where Quark blasts the Jem'Hadar which breaks into sickbay.
These are the episodes that caused Rick Berman concern saying this wasn't roddenberry version of star trek. i.e. death seen from afar not up close and personal.
But i think these episodes shows life can be the same now as in the 24th Century. which i think makes it more real.
Too bad they didn't have phaser machine guns.
They could always set their standard-issue Phasers to "level 16, wide-field" ;)
Resident Evil Wiki The Jem'Hadar dampening field meant they were restricted in what settings they could use. If you watch earlier in the episode this is explained.
+Stefan Ritter (StahlRitter) apparently star fleet calibrated the weapons to penetrate those personal shields so they weren't as powerful in the first episodes with them.
Personally, I think the writers forgot.
In the original series they had Photon Grenade Mortar during the battle with the Gorn on Cestus III so I'd assume the Federation arsenal probably has some heavier weapons for defensive purposes.
If I remember correctly the director of the episode was actually at the Siege of Ka San and used his memory of it when directing the episode.
Quark has Klingon honor! He killed at least 3 Jem"Hadar in open battle to save his kinsmen. Two to save Rom, one to save Nog. While not naturally courageous he could rise to the occasion when it truly matters. Klingons respect that level of bravery all the more when it comes in a small, easily intimidated package.
I could imagine Klingon nobles from Grilka's house coming up with a tasteful way to work Quark's heroism into their symbology. After all, the man faced down D'Ghor for them, then killed 3 Jem'Hadar in personal combat during the war. Few Klingon warriors could claim to have done as well. He may not be married to Grilka anymore but he's still a member of their House (or at least, he was never formally expelled from it!) and his victories brought them great honor..
the music and acting were amazing
RIP Aron Eisenberg
An army of Jem’ Hadar against Sisko and Quark. They stood no chance.
One of the best DS9 episodes ever
this is one of my favourite episodes in 7 years of the show. if anyone out there is posting whole episodes, please let me know . xxx
Tuco from Breaking Bad got stabbed in the back
The Federation really needs to upgrade on their warfare parameters,
QUARK BECAME A HERO!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D This episode was perhaps the scariest dominion war episode to me. ;( The fact that it was ALL OUT BATTLEFIELD COMBAT made it seem like ANY cast members could die!
This is why they need MACOs. Having no specialised military in a galaxy where it is proven that the Federation will continually get butthurt is just stupid. MACO detachments on board Federation vessels could have stopped almost all ship take-overs that are seen in the shows and would have saved thousands, if not millions of lives in the wars. The idea of the Federation being a solely peaceful faction is just stupid.
You make a great point though the MACOs were introduced after DS9 in Enterprise. But clearly this episode and the entire Dominion story arc showed that the Federation badly needed professional soldiers.
There's more than enough tech available to stop a boarding action, the writers just rarely used it because there would be no drama in easy victories. Going by the tech manuals, every part of the ship can be isolated from any other with security force fields at the push of a button. any part can be flooded with knock-out gas, and the transporters can be extremely effective as well. Boarding a ship should only stand a chance in hell when it's so blown to shit that nothing works anymore and by then it's not worth capturing anyway.
Ehh, the problem with that from the Federation's perspective is that Starfleet has already attempted multiple coups. There's a huge power imbalance right now in the Federation, Starfleet has way too much power, and the Federation Council far too little. Giving Starfleet even more power would just make the coups come thicker and faster as individual admirals amass enough power to make moves
One of the reasons Starfleet has never abandoned its pseudocivilian trappings is the Federation Council is afraid of them
If there were MACOs, they would pretty much have to be their own thing. A Federation ground forces unit answerable to the Council and the President, but not necessarily Starfleet. Basically rebuilding the Army and Airforce to prevent the Navy from holding all the cards.
I can't help but think that a modern machine gun could have completely suppressed this attack. It would have turned that narrow canyon into an absolute meat grinder.
Minigun for the win, baby! (T-800 grins with joy)
I was just thinking that. Or even a Gatling. I love the portability factor and the need of one charger for phaser rifle over carrying multiple ammo clips. But there's no question even with submachine guns like the P90 would've handled that entire attack force useless.
The music, the lack of talking, and of course Armin's emotional expressions...this part was just gorgeous, and you didn't see things like this on TV in the 90s.
I could never understand the hate DS9 got, cause it was a brilliant show. Probably the best Trek in a long time.
This has to be one of the best fight scenes in ds9 from my point of view
Damn Quarks got one hell of a quick draw
He works in a bar. Self defense is an occupationally necessary skill
Everyone he made food for on a Ferengi freighter thought they were a food critic. I'm sure that involved more than just a few harsh words.
@@hisdudeness8328 Kinda wish they'd shown a scene after the battle with Quark standing there, no jacket, drenched with sweat, shirt torn, still between Nog and the door, breathing hard, eyes wide, panicking, you know, at his high strung best, and then the camera pans out to like 15-20 dead Jem'Hadar in that hallway.
Excellent, Memorable episode, superb performance by the actors.
@TheAle89515 Nog lost a leg in this episode. There was an entire story arc about his recovery. He didn't turn out so safe and sound...
For ever has not seen war; THIS IS IT!
The Redshirts are dying one by one
Hurrah Hurrah
The Redshirts are dying one by one
Hurrah Hurrah
My beautiful Jem Hader did me proud. ❤️
Someone once asked me why Starfleet doesn't use wide angle settings in these situations. The explanation is simple enough, wide angle does not do as much damage, requires a moment to reset if you don't need it anymore, and in close quarters you don't want to hit allies. If you are fighting Jem'Hadar then focused damage is needed, and it will almost always get to close quarters. And most phasers, at least the ones I know can only be set for wide angle stun.
Set 2-3 to wide, use one after another to give them reload. The rest takes care of anyone who survived with focused shots.
It's rather simple to counter all the disadvantage widespread has if you leave it to only a few ones.
That being g said, I think it would have been bad storewise. This episode wanted to portray the horrors of war in a difficult situation, and that it is well with focused fire.
The Jem'hadar have natural armor underneath an armored weave (some have been shown with even more than that). These Phasers are firing tight beam with a high power output. Jem'hadar were resistant to all but the highest phaser settings. Because of this, the idea of rapid firing weapons was out of the question, seeing as the Phasers drew power from a power pack. The faster you shot, usually the lower the damage output. You could overcharge it for medium/high power pulses and/or a wide beam, and usually lacked the punch required to fight the Jem'hadar. Doing either option also eats through power packs, and in this episode, the unit had been stuck on the planet for 5 months, and were vey low on everything, including power packs. They did what they could with what they had.
I think the vic song that was playing before the charge would have made this even more painful. That shit is haunting as to waht was about to take place!
When the Sisko gets angry he stops shooting his rifle and starts beating the enemy with it.
Even the final frontier has its own costs
Bellargeon's score really killed this episode.
Storm Troopers versus Jem'Hadar! Who would win? I'm betting on the Jem'Hadar winning!
it's basically Stormtroopers vs Clone Troopers. Although in this case, the clones have no armor or mechanized force, so the battle would be extremely one sided.
You know, this was just a strait-up fight. A squad of Vietnam era soldiers with M-16s could have fought this just as well. And while we're at it, a few damn grenades might have been helpful. WHEN YOUR ENEMY IS BUNCHED UP - USE GRENADES!
You know, the episode was directed by a Vietnam vet, and it shows, bigtime. The whole fighting over a patch of nothing concept came from his own experiences in the war.
Cheaptastic Productions It's one of the most brutal trek battles
Star trek seems to have largely forgotten the gernade. like when they have battles in the hallways of the ships during boarding assualts.
Nostripe361 Actually, the producers limited what Starfleet could and could not do in order to make it clear they're not an actual military (to keep with Roddenberry's vision). It might make it somewhat more dramatic - that their loathing of being seen as a military means they only supply people with rifles as a standard.
As a side note, the producers wouldn't even let characters beam into a room crouching; that made it seem like they were expecting combat. It wasn't until the MACOs arrived in 'Enterprise' that it was allowed and even then they might have only done it once.
+sunnchilde A WWI unit would have done as well. Assuming JemHadar armor isn't bullet proof as bunched up as they are a Maxim gun would wipe them out.
Danger Will Robinson danger......!!!
*Jem hadar runs into the room where quark and nog are*
Jem hadar*: oops, wrong room!
Quark*:AHHHHHH!
*Quark shoots the Jem hadar*
Very emotional episode
You’d think the Federation would invest in some machine gun-esqe weapons, or perhaps even bring out some old LMGs into battle. Look at that wide area of fire just waiting to be covered
This frontal attack was absolutely stupid by the Jem Hadar.
Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not sure, but isn't this the only time Quark ever killed someone?
Nope there was the time he hit two Jem hadar in sacrifice of angels while breaking Rom and the others out of jail he was just as devastated then too
He was actually the ship's chef, and Ferengi are apparently all food critics.
He was a cook on a Ferengi ship, and he kept a disruptor pistol handy because of the crew itself.
When he went to grab it in Way of the Warrior, Rom had dismantled it and used the parts to fix the replicators. The exchange that follows that revelation always cracks me up.
"I will kill him!" - Quark
"With what?" - Odo
He also killed a kligon though that was an accident
They had to attack before Kellin's Chuck Norris beard could reach full maturity
Man the Federation's lack of military training and specialised fighting forces becomes very apparent.
Ferengi might be greedy oppotunists, but they are not warlike warriors or killers.... And it shows. Quark just wants to run his little bar in peace, he never signed up for any of this.
This is pretty good for a t.v. show.
One of my fave episodes
Congratulations,Quark. You're now human.
I couldn't agree more, a couple of squads of modern INF would have torn them apart. Yeah It's nice not having to reload every 30 shots (and ammo is heavy) but the phaser rifle is definitely not a INF weapon. Hell an a couple of American WW2 INF squads would have put them is serious jeopardy. Discounting the ship in orbit, purely on a INF level, the piece of non medical equipment I covet the most is the tri-corder.
@djslapdash Funny thing is, I just saw this episode and thought it was fantastic. Having sat through the awfulness of the whole of Voyager before seeing DS9, I have to say I am really impressed with the latter as a show, Trek or otherwise. I have a great nostalgia for TNG, but the whole Trek 'humans are so awesome' line never really sold to me. DS9 is the first Trek outside the movies that IMO portrays a believable universe.
everyone had amazing plot armour that battle as is tradition
That's why Nog lost his leg
@BanjoOz I had the same feeling. I saw DS9 years after it went off the air. Before I saw DS9, I was under the delusion that Voyager was a good Trek show. Now the episodes are almost unwatchable.
Not even the Sisko can take on more than a dozen or so genetically engineered super-soldiers before he is overwhelmed.
This scene is like the battle of the Alamo only differnt is the good guys wins
Hmmm it is just an imagination but how about a DS9 relaunch in a GoT-quality? This would be awesome, an it is possible to avoid some logical issues like no fullx automatic phasers, no Photontorpedo airstrikes or else.
Phasers, yes, photon torpedoes no. The torpedoes are entirely too powerful to be used that way. Each one is a 64 megaton explosive, more powerful than any nuke ever detonated on Earth. You launch one at a ground target you vaporize everything between 50-100 miles of ground zero, and destroy or massively damage another 200 miles of blast radius. They're WMDs, not tactical weapons.
if the MACOs were not disbanded, this would have been a lot easier for stafleet
I'm just saying, if this was the same battle but instead of Federation soldiers it was Guardsmen from 40k... This would have been a very short battle
Get rid of phasers. the battle would have been fought far better and more deadlier if the Federation used old style machine guns like the Germans did during the Normandy Invasion. Set up several fortified pill boxes with three machine guns each surrounding the compound the the enemy would never have gotten close. The only reason the Americans won and didn't pull back, despite their own superior numbers, was that the Germans ran out of ammunition. Had they an unlimited supply, then the Omaha Beach invasion at least would have failed.
Too bad they forgot about the wide field settings on their phaser rifles. Or the concept of long range snipers. Or artillery. Or air support. Or tanks.
This is why I never bought the idea that starfleet doesn't have an army because it is not needed, most fans will say something along the lines of, if you have ships that can bomb everything from space you don't need an army. The problem with that line of thinking is, what if you don't want to bomb from space, what if you want to capture territory or in this case hold it. What if you want to keep the cities and infrastructure intact, and its people alive. Will starfleet just kindly ask the Jem'hadar to leave after defeating their ships protecting a planet. What if they refuse what do you do now.
Asking a bunch of button pushers to defend or take a position is silly and stupid. You need real ground troops trained in ground warfare to do so. You need a freaking army with futuristic tanks and assault vehicles maybe something along the lines of the Argo buggy from Nemesis just with more armor. You need soldiers trained in properly defending a position with multiple lines of defense and not wear stupidly coloured uniforms that make you stand out like a disco ball. And for crying out loud SPREAD OUT MORE.
Ever see the TOS episode A Piece of the Action? In it, Kirk Spock and McCoy are in a building completely surrounded by gangsters armed with fully automatic submachine guns. Kirk calls up the Enterprise and has them hit them all with a phaser strike using the ship phasers set to stun. Yes, they can do that! It works perfectly, all the gangsters surrounding the building drop unconscious instantly. Done.
You're using outdated thinking revolving around modern day weapons and tactics. With starships, that all goes out the window. Control of orbit IS control of the ground. When you can precision stun entire groups of enemies using starship weapons, when you can target their weapons and equipment with your transporter beam and leave them completely disarmed in seconds, when you can do the same thing to fortifications and heavy weapons emplacements... sorry but ground troops are useless and helpless. Step one, their weapons and equipment vanish. Step two, they fall unconscious. Step three, they wake up in a holding cell. All done in less than a minute by a guy sitting high above pressing buttons on a control panel.
"We hold"
Would have made a superb DS9 movie. Rated 18! ;)
Funfact: This episode is actually rated 16 in Germany along with a few other episodes in Star Trek's history such as Patterns of Force, The Killing Game and Living Witness
And quark is the video miniature...
I think someone wanted to recreate the battle of Rorkes Drift
I guess with more time and money they would have used such concepts like suppressve fire, snipers, artillery, flanking, Orbital bombings (1 photon torpedo=50 megatons TNT) in the show, but for one Episode it was not enough. In modern Star Trek it would perhaps be possible. So imagine simply it happens like that and enjoy Deep Space Nine for its good plot!
those phaser rifles suck. I'd take the one Nog had when they went to Empok Nor. Now that looked like an up to date tool of badassery.
perfect video!!!
Melt the rock beneath their feet (we see phasers can do this) to halt the advance, then blast the rocks above to bury them. Starfleet are not known for their tactical brilliance. Hence why the "Picard Maneuver" is considered so radical...get close quickly and fire. What a concept!
Wasn't Vargas a member of the Hazard Team on the Enterprise-E?
@PanzerDivisionBOM They did line the path with mines.
even though the federation mostly fight enemies who favour melee combat (dominion jem'hadars and klingons), they have yet to provide their troops with any form of armor... a 12th century soldier would be able to withstand much more with only a bit of chainmail
heck, why don't they equip their phaser rifles with bayonets??
The defiant should have attacked the jemhadar based camps before it left
It is ridiculous to think that people of the future has not invented laser/phaser weapons that can penetrate through something as simple as rocks, or weapons that are solely dependent on hand movements rather than auto-aim/toogle ability to hit opponents with one shot. The writers of the story just happen to take advantage of the emotional outcome of the scene and utilize the tactics and similar weapon effectiveness of a 20th century battle.
+techracer2003 More like 19th century zulus vs british.
in this case the normally versitile phaser rifle was reduced to a trench warfare weapon due to the Jem H'dar being so heavily resistant to lower energy levels. In order for the rifles to take them down, they had to be on a very high setting and tuned for narrow beams to penetrate their natural armor.
They were also low on supplies and not getting any backup, so expending the rifle's power packs with heavy use of wide emitters would have been both ineffective and wasteful.
Lastly, the rifle's can auto target things using their built in sensor systems and IFF discriminators, but the Jem H'dar are also able to be invisible to sensors, and even beam in through shields, making it impossible to do more than point and shoot.
According to the tech manuals, a hand phaser can most certainly penetrate rocks. In fact, on higher settings they can create "explosive decoupling" of large amounts of solid rock or even metals with detonation more powerful than most field artillery. That is never shown on screen, and later writers seemed to forget all sorts of capabilities of future weapons shown and written in older works in favor of nerfing weapons to a more familiar 20th century level. This was so they could write battle scenes in a way they understood rather than actually thinking through what future tactics using such powerful weapons would actually be.
Where are the Klingons when you need them?
They should have sent Chuck Norris in with a pair of nun-chucks. The battle would have lasted 9 minutes.
Federation-logic I guess.
A team from Stargate Command would take out half of these troops.
Is it me, or does it seem like the Federation needs some less advanced, more effective weapons? A couple of light machine guns set up on the perimeter would have been pretty dang effective at stopping the Jem'Hadar charge here. They also could have used mortar support. It's odd to me that the Federation has regressed to semi-automatic weapons that can be stopped from working in a dampening field instead of more effective, if older, weapons.
There is a problem with that theory you're assuming that Jem'Hadar skin is like Human skin
@@ff3player If Jem'Hadar can be stabbed with knives and swords, which they can, it's safe to assume that a bullet would penetrate it. There are ways around it even if their skin is tough, like using tritanium tipped rounds or something.
Pity they hadn't miniguns in the 24th century.