@@killerking2346 i am tp incarnate i live and breath and think about midna i mean twilight princess every day its what makes me.. me BUT i might have to agree with that overall botw and tp both represent different parts of my life for me so its hard to choose 🤷
Majora's Mask has always been my favorite. OoT is incredible, but MM is just clearly the superior game. Not only was the time mechanic interesting and rare, so was the mask system. The transformation masks and even some of the lesser effect ones were such an innovative, fresh, and game changing mechanic. It had great dungeons, the best side quests in the series yet (as a whole at least), and a beautifully executed tone/world. I just don't have any complaints about it all these years later (though I don't love the 3DS remake, the N64 version is the correct one). Also, I had the same exact thought on the next 3d Zelda. A spiritual successor to Wind Waker with proper dungeons. I feel they could bring some building back so you can modify your ship.
OoT/MM at the top, as it should be. Seeing this list, it does make me sad that we'll probably never get a 3D game blending all the best elements of the N64 era with the open-world exploration of BotW, since Nintendo apparently can't see any value in the old design. I feel like I've been waiting for them to make that game for my entire life and now idk if it will happen v_v
People cared about the lore before Botw, the thing is that from Botw Nintendo stopped caring about telling the lore. We needed youtubers to put it together for the first time. Just like all souls games, where Vaati (and more) is great at telling Fromsofts story.
Several comments and long opinions on this one. I will space it so it should be fairly readable. Quick version: Rata's list is fine, for what it is. He covers his bases by saying they are all S tier, the only question being in what order of quality. Acceptable. *Mostly.* Section afterwards about Demise. First, a point that obliges me to dispute it. At 1:42:20, Rata says that he is Skyward Sword's strongest defender. **I disagree.** *I am.* Skyward Sword is not a normal Zelda game, not an ordinary installment in the series. Properly understood, it is a 25th Anniversary set piece. It that sense, it is intended to be a monument of the series to itself, and I brush aside any issues with its linearity and similar problems on that basis. The codification of the lore, the story of this first Hero forging the Master Sword, coming to embody the virtues the of Power wielded with Wisdom and Courage, the well-loved dungeons, the spectacle of the world, the adventure Link goes on, is all meant to be a distillation of everything Zelda is as a series into an elemental form. That is Skyward Sword, and it is the **greatest** of the 3D Zelda games. Now, it is NOT the **most important** Zelda game. That must go to Ocarina of Time, as is proper. 3D Zelda does not exist without it. Neither of these, though, is **the best** 3D Zelda. In how these games play, in how the puzzles are devised, in how the dungeons are built, in how we explore the world, and in how the combat feels, **best** 3D Zelda overall must go to Wind Waker. For the combat especially, in no game has it felt better for me than when sparring with Orca. For the 2D Zelda games, I have less to say. Putting Phantom Hourglass at he bottom is nothing short of criminal. The Temple of the Ocean King is a fine dungeon, especially in how it is returned to, going deeper each time. Also, Linebeck is a bro, and needs more love. Beyond any of that, this stream is perhaps the only time so far I have found any reason to have any doubt in Rata's taste. Putting BoTW as highly as he does, in spite of the game it might have been being a lie, is purposeful, willful rejection of the truth. He knows its issues. He knows it was empty. He knows what he loves about Zelda is not present. "It was real to me," he says at 42:18. No. It wasn't. But he wants to believe. He wants them to bring it back. They might. But how these two most recent "Zelda" games have gone shows that they do not care in the ways we do, about the same things as we do. *Ganondorf and the Demon King* I disagree with the points made after 1:29:00 against the Demon King as he is in Skyward Sword. While Rata says (and he is partly correct) that he doesn't do anything Ganondorf wasn't doing, this is not **entirely** true. The running distinction prior to Skyward Sword was that there existed Ganon and Ganondorf. Ganon is the monster, the hatred of the Demon King made manifest. Ganondorf is a man possessed by that hatred. Wind Waker is notable for having no Beast Ganon. The closest it comes is the form of Puppet Ganon that resembles it, but this is symbolic for Ganondorf the man being in control of the hatred that might otherwise dominate his actions. The way that the Demon King is made a character in Skyward Sword, independent of Ganondorf, fits with a point I wrote down in my comment below yesterday's stream. Zelda, in large part, is about the natural peace and order of the world being disturbed and put in peril by human vices, which is then thwarted by a reassertion of human virtues. The Demon King being a character in his own right is important for that reason. He comes from deep beneath the earth, deep inside the nature of the world and humanity itself, fundamental in what he represents. While particular instances of it can be stopped, his hatred, and human vices, will continue to haunt Hyrule. Ganondorf being a man, one possessed by the Demon King's hatred is meaningful in that he need not be that way. When he is overcome by that hatred, he transforms into a beast who knows only destruction. When he is in control, however, he is far more thoughtful and at times even sympathetic, as he can be in Wind Waker.
13:21 RE the MM 3DS remake, i also feel they ruined a lot of the art direction by making everything super bright, and i don't really like a lot of the texture work either. I'm glad it's stuck on 3DS because even with it stuck there i still see a lot of people use footage from it when talking about MM instead of the original and it kind of drives me crazy lmao. another L for remakes imo... Also loved your OoT analysis... completely agree about that Saria cutscene and the rest
I somewhat like MM 3D just because its generally still MM but portable, but yeah, the art direction misses the mark a bit. Some of it I think is just a symptom of higher fidelity graphics having less inherent uncanniness, but some of the inferior art direction was due to deliberate choices. The main one I don't like is the change to the final night sky. In the original, it had a beautiful, subtle glow on the horizon as kind of an ominous reminder of the coming morning. In MM 3D, the sky of the final night is just completely blasted with ultra saturated red. Far less subtle and interesting with its ominous atmosphere. The final day sky was changed too, but I don't mind it. The cloudless blue sky with a green hue on the horizon keeps the off-factor without being too in your face.
@@brandonbernard1570 yeah, it's definitely not all loss or anything, and there are things i can appreciate about it. but generally speaking it's just that it doesn't have the same cohesiveness
BotW somehow above WW and in 3rd yet somehow TotK (which is literally just BotW but better) is reluctantly not placed in last. Holy moly what a switch-up and awful take.
Nah Zelda II is a top 10 Zelda game and I'm tired of pretending it's not. Granted, it's only barely 10, but still. SMH Rat draws the line at NES Zelda games for being old despite releasing only 4 years before ALTTP. Imagine if someone said the same thing to OOT saying it was too old but then praising Wind Waker.
How have you not seen at least the cutscenes from the CDI games?? It needs to be its own designated stream I'm begging you, they are meme history!
@@Zoombeanie132 I'm seconding this
Same
Fourthing this
I’m Fithing
Yes
Bro calls himself a fan, hasn’t even played the 3 CD-i games in totality. Fake fan.
And he's never even heard of Arzette: The Jewel Of Faramore! What's up with that?
If twilight princess isnt on the top its over for you, you frickin squirrel thing
It's below BoTW lol Rata is an agent of chaos
@@killerking2346 i am tp incarnate i live and breath and think about midna i mean twilight princess every day its what makes me.. me BUT i might have to agree with that overall botw and tp both represent different parts of my life for me so its hard to choose 🤷
"Frickin squirrel thing." 😂😂😂
Majoras mask is easily the best Zelda game
Majora's Mask has always been my favorite. OoT is incredible, but MM is just clearly the superior game. Not only was the time mechanic interesting and rare, so was the mask system. The transformation masks and even some of the lesser effect ones were such an innovative, fresh, and game changing mechanic. It had great dungeons, the best side quests in the series yet (as a whole at least), and a beautifully executed tone/world. I just don't have any complaints about it all these years later (though I don't love the 3DS remake, the N64 version is the correct one).
Also, I had the same exact thought on the next 3d Zelda. A spiritual successor to Wind Waker with proper dungeons. I feel they could bring some building back so you can modify your ship.
Ocarina and Majora are the perfect duology. Easily peak Zelda. Nice tier list.
OoT/MM at the top, as it should be. Seeing this list, it does make me sad that we'll probably never get a 3D game blending all the best elements of the N64 era with the open-world exploration of BotW, since Nintendo apparently can't see any value in the old design. I feel like I've been waiting for them to make that game for my entire life and now idk if it will happen v_v
People cared about the lore before Botw, the thing is that from Botw Nintendo stopped caring about telling the lore. We needed youtubers to put it together for the first time. Just like all souls games, where Vaati (and more) is great at telling Fromsofts story.
Zelda needs more genuinely scary fellas
the last 5 seconds of this stream are the best part
OG BOTW hater here. But for the record I don’t think it’s a bad game just disappointing. Same for TOTK
Several comments and long opinions on this one. I will space it so it should be fairly readable.
Quick version: Rata's list is fine, for what it is. He covers his bases by saying they are all S tier, the only question being in what order of quality. Acceptable. *Mostly.* Section afterwards about Demise.
First, a point that obliges me to dispute it. At 1:42:20, Rata says that he is Skyward Sword's strongest defender. **I disagree.** *I am.*
Skyward Sword is not a normal Zelda game, not an ordinary installment in the series. Properly understood, it is a 25th Anniversary set piece. It that sense, it is intended to be a monument of the series to itself, and I brush aside any issues with its linearity and similar problems on that basis.
The codification of the lore, the story of this first Hero forging the Master Sword, coming to embody the virtues the of Power wielded with Wisdom and Courage, the well-loved dungeons, the spectacle of the world, the adventure Link goes on, is all meant to be a distillation of everything Zelda is as a series into an elemental form. That is Skyward Sword, and it is the **greatest** of the 3D Zelda games.
Now, it is NOT the **most important** Zelda game. That must go to Ocarina of Time, as is proper. 3D Zelda does not exist without it.
Neither of these, though, is **the best** 3D Zelda. In how these games play, in how the puzzles are devised, in how the dungeons are built, in how we explore the world, and in how the combat feels, **best** 3D Zelda overall must go to Wind Waker. For the combat especially, in no game has it felt better for me than when sparring with Orca.
For the 2D Zelda games, I have less to say. Putting Phantom Hourglass at he bottom is nothing short of criminal. The Temple of the Ocean King is a fine dungeon, especially in how it is returned to, going deeper each time. Also, Linebeck is a bro, and needs more love.
Beyond any of that, this stream is perhaps the only time so far I have found any reason to have any doubt in Rata's taste. Putting BoTW as highly as he does, in spite of the game it might have been being a lie, is purposeful, willful rejection of the truth. He knows its issues. He knows it was empty. He knows what he loves about Zelda is not present. "It was real to me," he says at 42:18. No. It wasn't.
But he wants to believe. He wants them to bring it back. They might. But how these two most recent "Zelda" games have gone shows that they do not care in the ways we do, about the same things as we do.
*Ganondorf and the Demon King*
I disagree with the points made after 1:29:00 against the Demon King as he is in Skyward Sword. While Rata says (and he is partly correct) that he doesn't do anything Ganondorf wasn't doing, this is not **entirely** true.
The running distinction prior to Skyward Sword was that there existed Ganon and Ganondorf. Ganon is the monster, the hatred of the Demon King made manifest. Ganondorf is a man possessed by that hatred. Wind Waker is notable for having no Beast Ganon. The closest it comes is the form of Puppet Ganon that resembles it, but this is symbolic for Ganondorf the man being in control of the hatred that might otherwise dominate his actions.
The way that the Demon King is made a character in Skyward Sword, independent of Ganondorf, fits with a point I wrote down in my comment below yesterday's stream. Zelda, in large part, is about the natural peace and order of the world being disturbed and put in peril by human vices, which is then thwarted by a reassertion of human virtues. The Demon King being a character in his own right is important for that reason. He comes from deep beneath the earth, deep inside the nature of the world and humanity itself, fundamental in what he represents. While particular instances of it can be stopped, his hatred, and human vices, will continue to haunt Hyrule.
Ganondorf being a man, one possessed by the Demon King's hatred is meaningful in that he need not be that way. When he is overcome by that hatred, he transforms into a beast who knows only destruction. When he is in control, however, he is far more thoughtful and at times even sympathetic, as he can be in Wind Waker.
Came to the stream right as it ended 💀
13:21 RE the MM 3DS remake, i also feel they ruined a lot of the art direction by making everything super bright, and i don't really like a lot of the texture work either. I'm glad it's stuck on 3DS because even with it stuck there i still see a lot of people use footage from it when talking about MM instead of the original and it kind of drives me crazy lmao. another L for remakes imo...
Also loved your OoT analysis... completely agree about that Saria cutscene and the rest
I somewhat like MM 3D just because its generally still MM but portable, but yeah, the art direction misses the mark a bit. Some of it I think is just a symptom of higher fidelity graphics having less inherent uncanniness, but some of the inferior art direction was due to deliberate choices.
The main one I don't like is the change to the final night sky. In the original, it had a beautiful, subtle glow on the horizon as kind of an ominous reminder of the coming morning. In MM 3D, the sky of the final night is just completely blasted with ultra saturated red. Far less subtle and interesting with its ominous atmosphere. The final day sky was changed too, but I don't mind it. The cloudless blue sky with a green hue on the horizon keeps the off-factor without being too in your face.
@@brandonbernard1570 yeah, it's definitely not all loss or anything, and there are things i can appreciate about it. but generally speaking it's just that it doesn't have the same cohesiveness
BotW somehow above WW and in 3rd yet somehow TotK (which is literally just BotW but better) is reluctantly not placed in last. Holy moly what a switch-up and awful take.
Majoras Mask is the GOAT. Followed by Ocarina.
Botw does not make the top 10, Totk probably just makes top 10
Nah Zelda II is a top 10 Zelda game and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
Granted, it's only barely 10, but still.
SMH Rat draws the line at NES Zelda games for being old despite releasing only 4 years before ALTTP. Imagine if someone said the same thing to OOT saying it was too old but then praising Wind Waker.
I'd like to re-iterate that Paya is sexier than Purah. Debate me on that.
No need to debate facts brother
zelda 2 is peak
First
Are you drunk ?
All Zelda games are S tier 😂😂😂
Clearly you didn't watch the video
Are you getting the PS5 Pro??
he said no in a previous stream
It's a waste of cash bro
Should've waited for the new game.