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I've seen many friends leave the church. People who even helped me come to faith. It has been one of the hardest things to see. Sometimes I think to myself "how will I last to the end?" But I am reminded that the change in my life, this salvation that I cling to, is all the work of Christ. I have faith, not in my own ability to carry on til the end, but that he who began the work of regeneration, will complete the work of sanctification. And no one can take me away from Him. Praise God for that truth.
The fact is, those who leave the church are more righteous than are those who remain. The entire church is 100% apostate and anyone who remains in the church cannot be a Christian.
Romans 3 KJV 🩸 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Well said. I personally have not struggled with this issue too badly. I can certainly see where it could creep in. Many of my brothers and sisters have made it known to me that they deal with this more profoundly than I. Your words I'm sure are helpful to anyone facing that fear. Let me simply ad that yes, God can be working in you the man or woman in order to use you to benefit His sheep and you not be one of His own. The hand of God can be layed upon you and you NOT be saved. However I think with Him working on the non believer....the untrue professor of false faith....I do NOT feel they will understand the Spirits convictions. They wouldn't experience the steady process of purifying. That Spirit likely doesn't grip them and cause them to grieve as it does the believer. When God's hand comes into the life of a person whom He sent His Son to gather...I'm quite sure He handles them differently than one condemned to their disbelief and disobedience. If that pulling and fighting and struggling over sin is happening in your life. Rest assured this is a good thing happening to you. The Spirit purifies what it will desire to make pure. This is His own.
@@robertknight3354 🤔 Do you believe the gospel? ✝️🩸 1 Corinthians 15 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
@@robertknight3354 ♥️ Feels good to be pure. Titus 1 KJV 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Romans 4 KJV ♥️ 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 🤔 Faith in what? Romans 3 KJV 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Through my many years of walking with Christ, many scriptural revelations were given to me. I never even knew they aligned with Calvin's teachings until a friend of mine started asking me questions concerning my fundamental beliefs. He didn't know where I stood theologically. As we talked and fellowshipped and he told me about the tenants of Calvinism it aligned exactly with the revelations that the Lord had shown me throughout the years. As a side note it's important to know that I was raised in the Christian faith, but my parents were extremely legalistic and works oriented. They held the belief that one had to earn their way into heaven through obedience and works of righteousness! I also thought that way for many years as well. But God over the years broke all of that down, some of it through people I met in the Air Force that were believers. Some through self-study of the world and the revelation by the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 4 talks about entering into a Sabbath Rest, which we enter by grace through faith, and that faith isn't even our own but a free gift from God! Hebrews 4:9 "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his."
Romans 4 KJV ♥️ 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 🤔 Faith in what? Romans 3 KJV 🩸 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 1 John 5 KJV 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Thanks Jeff! Love the word nebulous! John chapter 6 is my favorite chapter in the Bible. Every time I hear Christians and tell others that they are truly saved because they accepted Jesus in their heart. I always try to tell them to read John chapter 6. Jesus chose not the creature.
At age 23 I “rededicated” my life to Christ. I thought I made a choice, changed my mind and then changed my mind again. Knowing now that I was never really regenerated until that age. God saved me by his own doing and he will complete the good work in me. So thankful for the clarity of reformed theology.
If you have anything to do with anything known as the church, then you have not become saved. If you think the guys in this video are Christians, you have not become saved.
Happened to me at 22 thinking I was saved and regenerate at 18 and a good friend of mine at 26 thinking he was saved since childhood, but we were both steeped in unrepentant sin until our true grief of our sins and thanks for Gods grace at 22 and 26! Praise God!
I had a close friend who professed belief in Christ later say, "I don't believe in that s*** anymore." It was heartbreaking. We were all wandering and when I pleaded with him to come back, he refused. I haven't talked to him since...
The fact is, if anyone is in or a part of any church they are not believers in the Bible or in the Bibles Christianity. If anyone actually understood and believed the Bible, they will not be found in anything known as the/a church.
The freedom I felt when I understood the doctrines of grace, I cant communicate. I'd grown up thinking I can lose my salvation. Even as a teenager and young adult, I was racked with guilt and doubt and true terror that I may be fallen in sin for a time and then die and I would go to hell! Also, when I wasn't getting the "visions" and dreams and "prophecies" that others were getting, it also made me feel like I wasn't loved by God, that maybe I wasn't a child of God and again causing true terror of not having salvation in Jesus. God is so gracious that He called me to Himself, He is the operator in salvation. It's like when God caused Abraham to sleep, then walked between the sacrifice to show God's covenant with Abraham and his seed. Abraham had no power in making the covenant. He was completely debilitated in sleep, and God did this! I also don't understand why it's hard for some to understand why God will choose those who He will save. We've seen this in the character of God in the Old Testament when he called the Israelites to be His chosen people. To the detriment of other people's. I'm not sure my reasoning is truly sound, I'm still learning, but these are some of the things that I think through in relation to the doctrines of Grace.
I go out and evangelize and I can say to the person: "God loves you... In the sense that he sent me, an evangelical christian, on your way so you can hear the gospel"
What part of tulip the Gospel? 🤔 1 Corinthians 15 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Romans 3 KJV 🩸 23-25 1 John 5 KJV 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
@@colepriceguitar1153 because the Gospel is the Power of God for Salvation. And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. (Acts 13:48, ESV)
Hi guys, you said you would do a session covering the chestnuts regularly raised against Calvinism, I've been looking out for it but can't find it anywhere. Have you done it yet or is it still in the pipeline?
I've never understood how a non-Calvinist could affirm "eternal security." After all, if it's your decision that saved you, why can't you change your mind? Therefore, before I was a Calvinist, I believed it was possible to lose--or rather, "give up"--your salvation. But it necessarily follows, if God chose in eternity past whom he would save, that he isn't going to change his mind, and I won't be able to undo his election. As to Perseverance vs. Preservation of the Saints, both are true. The Saints will persevere, because God will preserve them.
More importantly, if it was your decision that saved you as the freewill gospel teaches, then salvation is of the will and works of mankind, and it is not by the grace of God as the Bible clearly tells us it is. The freewill gospel instantly destroys the Bibles gospel. It is the false manmade gospel of the spiritually dead and blind, and of the accursed of God as is easily understood by any who God has saved by his grace and who are spiritually alive and have eyes to see what an absolute manmade Godless fraud the churches freewill gospel is.
@apologia you should invite Dr. Flowers on the show to discuss this topic. The debate last night was helpful, but at certain points it seemed the personal animosity between Flowers and White took the front seat. Invite him on to discuss these issues as disagreeing brothers
The fact is, neither flowers nor any of the people at apologia are Christians. All these ungodly, useless debates are nothing more than satan casting out satan.
What do we say when they turn to all the verses about God blotting peoples name out of the book of life? I struggle to debate this text, I think where I get hung up is how do we reconcile them to the rest of scripture. Im not understanding that aspect. Video please?
Im so confused if we do not have free will to choose then what is faith. Isnt faith choosing to believe something. How does god choose who to save. Wouldnt that make people boast that god has saved them and not others like they are special . So everyone does not have the equal opportunity to be saved its just whoever is lucky enough to be a chosen one. Hoe does the verse whosever shall believe in me shall have eternal life. I just cant wrap my head around this and its really bothering me.
I want yuns to do a side by side on peter ruckmans sermon on the heresies of calvanism. I watched both open minded and trying to make my mind up. I'm leaning toward ruckman. All your points didn't seem to contradict or go against his points of free will being mentioned in the bible and how God can know who's gonna accept christ before we were born and he only saved the called but everyone is called. It makes sense when he says it's a backwards salvation. Your saved then you accept Christ instead of accepting Christ and being saved. I bought into calvanism until I heard that sermon of his. It truly made a lot of sense and I would love for you to speak in it, point by point when he starts defending his views without misrepresenting it, not say you will just saying in general. But after I fully watched his open minded none of the verse you mentioned seemed to contradict what he said he used the same verses then added even more to show free will being biblical and how it runs side by side with God without touching is sovereignty. He is all the stuff you say but the way he represents your verses it it doesn't contradict himself, I'd like yuns to represent the verses in your belief of calvanism he used to represent free will. Lile he done with the verses yuns use
I find calvinism a interesting topic to learn. Cant understand the hatred between the the sides of this argument. I think most of it is peoples neeed to be tribalized and they want to root for their “team"
@@Nyagrafalls10 ,...Repent from your wrong and lack of Biblical understanding. You appear to be mocking the Bibles gospel that the spiritually dead and blind call "Calvinism". What the lost call "Calvinism" it the truth, the gospel, and the Christianity of the Bible. Anything else is a false manmade gospel and is the gospel of the accursed. The apostate churches freewill gospel is a 100% false manmade fraud. If you do not understand that what Calvin laid out is the gospel of the Bible, then you must have a change of mind and learn what the Bibles real gospel is. You must repent!
@@Nyagrafalls10It’s not a change of mind, it’s a change of heart, brother. Not the same. Only Gods grace softens hearts, turning them from stone to flesh.
*Jeff why don't you invite Flowers on your show? You have a standing invitation to go on his show... So stop slandering him and do the Christ like thing and speak with him... Maybe you can restore him to the faith*
*Jeff stop being hypocritical (**12:45**) Where in the Gospels did Jesus or the Apostles teach, Jesus only died for a few people, or that only a few people have been chosen, or that God irresistibly draws people... Where ???*
@@Flickerwink yeah he was in the ER like the day before. He’s wore down.. I feel like he was consistent like he always was but was struggling health wise.. he said he probably felt 70% for that debate. And still battling it. I don’t know how he got thru all these debates, he’s been sickly for over a month seems like.
Great discussion. I’ve never understood how many do not understand the basic concept of God’s total sovereignty. It must be pride. To everyone crying about Calvinism …sorry not sorry to burst your prideful bubble…but yes God chose those who would believe ..and He did so before the creation of the universe. Done. Then …shocker…all of those people…believed. Nothing has ever happened that God didn’t ordain to happen. Ever. But in our puny minds it may FEEL like we struck out on our own…made up our own mind and chose to believe. lol Ok fine..run with that. But it was God who chose you to believe in the first place…gave you the Spirit, faith, and ability to believe…which you could never spark up on your own. (Spiritually dead) And Philippians 1:6 brings it home. What God starts…He finishes. Period. (And if someone does not finish? He was never a chosen Christian to begin with. Read John) Thanks again for a wonderful discussion of Biblical truth fellas! Love this podcast. God bless. :)
God did not choose those he knew would believe. I hope you understand this. Those few who actually believe only believe because God has made them spiritually alive. Thier belief only comes after they are born again, it is a result/fruit of them already being saved. Now, as to a universe that you mention. Where does the Bible state that God made a universe? The fact is, he didnt. The idea of a universe only comes from Godless mankind and their 100% fake manmade religion of scientism that is the real religion of the entire church. Anyone who believes in/thinks there is, a universe is not and cannot be a Christian.
@@exposingfakechristianity5556 literally wrong on everything you just said. Everything. I am walking into an appointment right now…but have a lot to respond to this. Lol. You really are lost on all of this. Will continue this later today
@@jplifesong ,...Sorry but no, I am not wrong and have provided you with the truth. Everything I stated is correct. It is only in opposition to your/the churches, counterfeit (antichrist) christianity. I will be waiting for your response and to you showing me where the Bible tells us that God made a universe.
Christ died for ALL humanity, Jesus said He does not want anyone to perish. I believe all humanity will receive the Gospel and will choose for themselves before He returns, but to say He only died for the elect?No! Those who accept Christ and are born again ARE the elect. I can't think that millions of people are born and destined for hell. Eventhough i believe God already knows who His children are, He knows His sheep. He gives everyone a choice. I believe God draws ALL, and He died for ALL, eventhough not everyone will come to Him. Don't know why it's called calvanism, like Mormonism, they look at the bible through the eyes of Joseph Smith. I know mormonism is way of in their false beliefs. Just say your a follower of Christ, Gospel being God came in the flesh(Jesus) to die for our sins(humanity) and Jesus rose on the third day and now sits on the right hand of the Father. Christ is coming to draw us to Him in the rapture and then He will return for judgment after the tribulation period. I think Jesus must just return now to sort all this out, to many twistings of His word. I'm not a calvanist or a this or that...i'm a follower of Christ, saved by grace through faith.
God predetmined that whoever believed in Him would be saved and whoever rejected Him would perish. God does not predetmine who would believe. Yes, man is totally depraved and unable to save himself. But God endured the cross to redeem us. God offers the gift of salvation to all people. Timothy 2:3-6 - *all* John 3:16 - *whoever* Titus 2:11 - *all* 2 Peter 3:9 - *all* God draws us *all* to Him! John 12:32- And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw *all* peoples to Myself God offers the gift of salvation to those who believe in Him! John 6:47 - he who believes in Me has everlasting life. No one perishes because God rejected them or witheld some necessary grace needed to compel them to come to Jesus. They perish for refusing to believe in God and accept His gift of salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 - they perish because they refuse to love the truth and so be saved. God gives us free will to accept or reject His gift of salvation. Yes, man is totally depraved and unable to save himself, but man is able to respond to the gospel/Holy Spirit and put their faith in Jesus Christ. Read Ephesians 2, faith is not a work.
Beautifully stated. If it was all pre-determined then there would be no free will, which would mean Jesus' sacrifice for us would be meaningless, since no one could actually choose to accept His gift of salvation. Just because God knows what's going to happen does not mean that He controls us like puppets to make it happen. Free will is one of the many things that God gave us to set us apart from animals, and which makes us made in His image.
@@ogmakefirefiregood God did all the work in my salvation. Jesus died on the cross to offer the gift of salvation to whoever would put their faith in Him. Read Ephesians 2, putting your faith in God is not a work.
@@demo4444 I did not save myself. God saved me. God did all the work in my salvation. Jesus died on the cross to offer the gift of salvation to whoever would put their faith in Him. Read Ephesians 2, putting your faith in God is not a work.
Honestly the debate between Calvinists and Armenians in my mind is quite Petty they just keep continuing the argument every generation for the past 500 years
Let’s be honest: there was general consensus among the Church until Arminius decided to swim the Tiber back to Rome on the issue of Soteriology. Calvinists are standing on the same ground as the Reformers. The argument is petty only when the subject is of no significance. God’s grace and sovereignty are of utmost significance.
i agree. I still cant understand the hatred between the two. Its not significant to me. I think people just like to be tribalized and root for their “team"
@@ChristisLord70 😂 umm that would be the other way around buddy….. you’re the one who says God predetermines and controls everything including what people believe. So how is he not able to make this person a calvinist? Weak…
@@somexp12 What is wrong with you? First of all, God doesn’t glory in the death of the wicket and neither should we. Secondly, don’t sow discord among brethren. You are probably a heretic or unsaved yourself, so don’t bother to share your opinion on debates within Christianity.
@@douglasmcnay644 No one perishes because God rejected them or witheld some necessary grace needed to compel them to come to Jesus. They perish for refusing to believe in God and accept His gift of salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 - they perish because they refuse to love the truth and so be saved.
We all have free choice and we all chose sin. Once you choose sin, that is it, you are now dead in your trespasses and sins. You are now enemies of Christ. You are like a child who is ignoring the instruction of the father and is running out onto a busy street because you want to anyway, despite what dad told you to do. But God, out of His perfect love and grace, reaches down and snatches up the child, overriding his will. That is love. The loving father does not just throw up his hands and say, "oh well, he has free will and chose to run out into traffic."
@@daltonnelson94 ”the Spirit of truth, whom *the world cannot receive* , because it does not see Him or know Him. You know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.“ John 14:17 Is Paul contradicting Jesus? Make it make sense.
It was so obvious that Leighton was trying to provide context to point out how Calvinists interpret John 6:44. White kept avoiding all his questions and refused to engage. What a cop out. Why is White even upset, if God predetermined how the debate was going to go? His complaints won't even make sense.
The reason Dr. White didn’t answer a lot of questions is because they were not relevant to the topic of debate. Leighton, as he always does, tries to invoke feelings more than proper exegesis of the verses involved. Dr. White clearly pointed out Leighton’s plan of attack ( reading verse 45 out of context and going backwards from there). Dr. White clearly won this debate, period!!
More defending of calvanism, this almost seems like a cult, and why would you say that the apostles didn't go around preaching that Jesus loves you when John 3:16 tells us that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that who ever believes in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life. And where in the bible do the apostles go around saying that Jesus died only for the elect, and if you're lucky enough you maybe one of them, if not then bad luck, you're going to burn in hell for an eternity and there's nothing you can do about it.
And I think that’s the point exactly, to those who hear it and DO fear & repent, those will be saved. Whereas those who do NOT care for it, won’t, and will burn. Ya know what I mean?
@@benjy288 So Jesus was lying? Or contradicting himself? Not so, we alone can do nothing, God himself must draw us in. It’s an incredibly humbling thing to know that the Lord of glory chose YOU or ME to save… why me? Why me? Because of his love, not because of my decision. If I chose Jesus, than I get the credit in that case. I decided to choose God, God didn’t choose me. It’s heresy sir.
The problem I see, is that the moment you give it a name, you create a division in the body: “I’m a Calvinist, you’re not” Now you have two groups who aren’t in unity. I see these types of things are not only useless for advancing the Kingdom of God, but counter-productive.
The problem is, when a heresy pops up, you suddenly actually need a name for the proper doctrine to contrast it with said heresy. So we're going to end up with these labels no matter what.
Back when I was a kid growing up in backwoods southern Baptist churches, the way Grace and salvation was preached was very Calvinistic although the labels and the system behind it weren’t elaborated on..they would reject predestination, gloss over election, but still preach that Gods grace thru faith has to save u. All while still pretty much preaching a works Gospel, blurring law and gospel together.. every Sunday was basically making people think if there not doing this or that they aren’t really saved. I can look back now and see how confusing it was.. the doctrines of grace and studying covenants and law gospel distinction helped me see things full circle in the Bible to have a full assurance and reconcile all aspects of my faith. I made a profession at 8yo and pretty much lived my life in a legalistic cage… I didn’t have a new relationship with my sin, I loved my sin. Thankfully by Gods grace I was regenerated at 33 years old and seen for the first time in my life who exactly I was, my sin and who God really was!! I was just living in a legalistic cage with God looking more like a cosmic Santa clause than a Holy God. I hate labels as well, but sometimes without the labels things get blurred together and becomes an even more confusing mess.. so sometimes they can be helpful.
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I've seen many friends leave the church. People who even helped me come to faith. It has been one of the hardest things to see. Sometimes I think to myself "how will I last to the end?"
But I am reminded that the change in my life, this salvation that I cling to, is all the work of Christ. I have faith, not in my own ability to carry on til the end, but that he who began the work of regeneration, will complete the work of sanctification. And no one can take me away from Him. Praise God for that truth.
The fact is, those who leave the church are more righteous than are those who remain. The entire church is 100% apostate and anyone who remains in the church cannot be a Christian.
Romans 3 KJV 🩸
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Well said. I personally have not struggled with this issue too badly. I can certainly see where it could creep in. Many of my brothers and sisters have made it known to me that they deal with this more profoundly than I.
Your words I'm sure are helpful to anyone facing that fear.
Let me simply ad that yes, God can be working in you the man or woman in order to use you to benefit His sheep and you not be one of His own. The hand of God can be layed upon you and you NOT be saved. However I think with Him working on the non believer....the untrue professor of false faith....I do NOT feel they will understand the Spirits convictions. They wouldn't experience the steady process of purifying. That Spirit likely doesn't grip them and cause them to grieve as it does the believer. When God's hand comes into the life of a person whom He sent His Son to gather...I'm quite sure He handles them differently than one condemned to their disbelief and disobedience.
If that pulling and fighting and struggling over sin is happening in your life. Rest assured this is a good thing happening to you. The Spirit purifies what it will desire to make pure. This is His own.
@@robertknight3354 🤔 Do you believe the gospel? ✝️🩸
1 Corinthians 15 KJV
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
@@robertknight3354 ♥️ Feels good to be pure.
Titus 1 KJV
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Romans 4 KJV ♥️
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
🤔 Faith in what?
Romans 3 KJV
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Through my many years of walking with Christ, many scriptural revelations were given to me. I never even knew they aligned with Calvin's teachings until a friend of mine started asking me questions concerning my fundamental beliefs. He didn't know where I stood theologically. As we talked and fellowshipped and he told me about the tenants of Calvinism it aligned exactly with the revelations that the Lord had shown me throughout the years. As a side note it's important to know that I was raised in the Christian faith, but my parents were extremely legalistic and works oriented. They held the belief that one had to earn their way into heaven through obedience and works of righteousness! I also thought that way for many years as well. But God over the years broke all of that down, some of it through people I met in the Air Force that were believers. Some through self-study of the world and the revelation by the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 4 talks about entering into a Sabbath Rest, which we enter by grace through faith, and that faith isn't even our own but a free gift from God! Hebrews 4:9 "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his."
Amen!!!🙏❤️.
God does, God does, God does, NOT man!!!
Praise and honour and glory be to our Lord and God Jesus Christ!!!🙏❤️.
I just don’t get why you wouldn’t want to believe this. It’s such a burden off of my shoulders to know that I will be preserved, despite my work
Romans 4 KJV ♥️
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
🤔 Faith in what?
Romans 3 KJV 🩸
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
1 John 5 KJV
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
@@AlexanderBrown77 ameneth to thateth 😅🤪❤️❤️
Thanks Jeff! Love the word nebulous!
John chapter 6 is my favorite chapter in the Bible. Every time I hear Christians and tell others that they are truly saved because they accepted Jesus in their heart. I always try to tell them to read John chapter 6. Jesus chose not the creature.
Thank you ❤. Excellent discussion. Ephesians 2:1-10 is my Testimony 🙏🙏👍😊
At age 23 I “rededicated” my life to Christ. I thought I made a choice, changed my mind and then changed my mind again. Knowing now that I was never really regenerated until that age. God saved me by his own doing and he will complete the good work in me. So thankful for the clarity of reformed theology.
If you have anything to do with anything known as the church, then you have not become saved. If you think the guys in this video are Christians, you have not become saved.
Happened to me at 22 thinking I was saved and regenerate at 18 and a good friend of mine at 26 thinking he was saved since childhood, but we were both steeped in unrepentant sin until our true grief of our sins and thanks for Gods grace at 22 and 26! Praise God!
@@AlignWithJesus ,...The fact is, you are still unsaved and steeped in deception and in a 100% counterfeit (antichrist) christianity. Repent!
Convicting.. I thank God for you men. May I put all of what you said into practice. No sin, however pleasurable, is worth giving up the Son.
Beautiful, thanks gentlemen
So Good and Shared this video on my Instagram and FB. Thanks!!
I had a close friend who professed belief in Christ later say, "I don't believe in that s*** anymore." It was heartbreaking. We were all wandering and when I pleaded with him to come back, he refused. I haven't talked to him since...
The fact is, if anyone is in or a part of any church they are not believers in the Bible or in the Bibles Christianity. If anyone actually understood and believed the Bible, they will not be found in anything known as the/a church.
The freedom I felt when I understood the doctrines of grace, I cant communicate. I'd grown up thinking I can lose my salvation. Even as a teenager and young adult, I was racked with guilt and doubt and true terror that I may be fallen in sin for a time and then die and I would go to hell! Also, when I wasn't getting the "visions" and dreams and "prophecies" that others were getting, it also made me feel like I wasn't loved by God, that maybe I wasn't a child of God and again causing true terror of not having salvation in Jesus.
God is so gracious that He called me to Himself, He is the operator in salvation. It's like when God caused Abraham to sleep, then walked between the sacrifice to show God's covenant with Abraham and his seed. Abraham had no power in making the covenant. He was completely debilitated in sleep, and God did this! I also don't understand why it's hard for some to understand why God will choose those who He will save. We've seen this in the character of God in the Old Testament when he called the Israelites to be His chosen people. To the detriment of other people's. I'm not sure my reasoning is truly sound, I'm still learning, but these are some of the things that I think through in relation to the doctrines of Grace.
Yes, you’re still learning, and someday you will know Calvinism is from Satan.
What freedom? As a Calvinist you and no choice in the matter. You had no freedom.
GLORY to GOD Alone.
So now instead of wondering if you can lose your salvation you wonder if you ever obtained it.
Amen, I do not believe those others were getting any dreams or visions. Stick to his word.🙏❤️
God bless you!!!🙏❤️.
I go out and evangelize and I can say to the person:
"God loves you...
In the sense that he sent me, an evangelical christian, on your way so you can hear the gospel"
Perseverance of the saints is my favourite doctrine of the TULIP
What part of tulip the Gospel? 🤔
1 Corinthians 15 KJV
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Romans 3 KJV 🩸
23-25
1 John 5 KJV
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Have you all ever hashed it out with Mike winger?
God Saves whoever he wants whenever he wants. Ask Paul. He knows all about it.
Calvinism is incorrect. Michael Brown vs James White debate makes it crystal clear if you have ears to hear.
💯
So why preach?
@@colepriceguitar1153 because the Gospel is the Power of God for Salvation.
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. (Acts 13:48, ESV)
@@ogmakefirefiregood but God has already determined who’s saved and who isn’t.
Hi guys, you said you would do a session covering the chestnuts regularly raised against Calvinism, I've been looking out for it but can't find it anywhere. Have you done it yet or is it still in the pipeline?
Pastor pls pray for me that God of the bible well continue me to work in my life. Sorry for everything i than in you all.
I've never understood how a non-Calvinist could affirm "eternal security." After all, if it's your decision that saved you, why can't you change your mind? Therefore, before I was a Calvinist, I believed it was possible to lose--or rather, "give up"--your salvation.
But it necessarily follows, if God chose in eternity past whom he would save, that he isn't going to change his mind, and I won't be able to undo his election.
As to Perseverance vs. Preservation of the Saints, both are true. The Saints will persevere, because God will preserve them.
More importantly, if it was your decision that saved you as the freewill gospel teaches, then salvation is of the will and works of mankind, and it is not by the grace of God as the Bible clearly tells us it is.
The freewill gospel instantly destroys the Bibles gospel. It is the false manmade gospel of the spiritually dead and blind, and of the accursed of God as is easily understood by any who God has saved by his grace and who are spiritually alive and have eyes to see what an absolute manmade Godless fraud the churches freewill gospel is.
Sir how do i get in touch with you? Im from south africa and saw your debate with a revrernt along with pastor white and i have a question for you
Pastor good pm this is Alfie R Mendaje. I watched that debate but i did not finish
.
@apologia you should invite Dr. Flowers on the show to discuss this topic. The debate last night was helpful, but at certain points it seemed the personal animosity between Flowers and White took the front seat. Invite him on to discuss these issues as disagreeing brothers
The fact is, neither flowers nor any of the people at apologia are Christians. All these ungodly, useless debates are nothing more than satan casting out satan.
What do we say when they turn to all the verses about God blotting peoples name out of the book of life? I struggle to debate this text, I think where I get hung up is how do we reconcile them to the rest of scripture. Im not understanding that aspect. Video please?
There’s more than one book of life in the Bible. You might want to get a free Strongs and McClintock cyclopedia online and read about it.
After listening to James White debates I converted to Catholicism.
Pastors thank you all, want you deed in my life pls tell pastor dr. James white to God glory thanks alot. B
Im so confused if we do not have free will to choose then what is faith. Isnt faith choosing to believe something. How does god choose who to save. Wouldnt that make people boast that god has saved them and not others like they are special . So everyone does not have the equal opportunity to be saved its just whoever is lucky enough to be a chosen one. Hoe does the verse whosever shall believe in me shall have eternal life. I just cant wrap my head around this and its really bothering me.
I want yuns to do a side by side on peter ruckmans sermon on the heresies of calvanism. I watched both open minded and trying to make my mind up. I'm leaning toward ruckman. All your points didn't seem to contradict or go against his points of free will being mentioned in the bible and how God can know who's gonna accept christ before we were born and he only saved the called but everyone is called. It makes sense when he says it's a backwards salvation. Your saved then you accept Christ instead of accepting Christ and being saved. I bought into calvanism until I heard that sermon of his. It truly made a lot of sense and I would love for you to speak in it, point by point when he starts defending his views without misrepresenting it, not say you will just saying in general. But after I fully watched his open minded none of the verse you mentioned seemed to contradict what he said he used the same verses then added even more to show free will being biblical and how it runs side by side with God without touching is sovereignty. He is all the stuff you say but the way he represents your verses it it doesn't contradict himself, I'd like yuns to represent the verses in your belief of calvanism he used to represent free will. Lile he done with the verses yuns use
I find calvinism a interesting topic to learn. Cant understand the hatred between the the sides of this argument. I think most of it is peoples neeed to be tribalized and they want to root for their “team"
Ah yea, John Calvin, some may call him: “the apostle of the cessationists.”
Q: How do you know if you’re elect?
A: If you persevere to the end.
Q: How do you persevere to the end?
A: You are elect
And around and around we go.
Repent!
@@ToTheCalledofJesusChrist-ff2sn Repent meaning to have a change of mind. What are you calling me to have a change of mind about?
@@Nyagrafalls10 ,...Repent from your wrong and lack of Biblical understanding. You appear to be mocking the Bibles gospel that the spiritually dead and blind call "Calvinism".
What the lost call "Calvinism" it the truth, the gospel, and the Christianity of the Bible. Anything else is a false manmade gospel and is the gospel of the accursed.
The apostate churches freewill gospel is a 100% false manmade fraud. If you do not understand that what Calvin laid out is the gospel of the Bible, then you must have a change of mind and learn what the Bibles real gospel is. You must repent!
@@Nyagrafalls10It’s not a change of mind, it’s a change of heart, brother. Not the same. Only Gods grace softens hearts, turning them from stone to flesh.
are you all calvinists or not? You said once saved always saved, but then .......???
*Jeff why don't you invite Flowers on your show? You have a standing invitation to go on his show... So stop slandering him and do the Christ like thing and speak with him... Maybe you can restore him to the faith*
*Jeff stop being hypocritical (**12:45**) Where in the Gospels did Jesus or the Apostles teach, Jesus only died for a few people, or that only a few people have been chosen, or that God irresistibly draws people... Where ???*
Are we gonna talk about the debate with James white and flowers. I don't feel like that was one of the best from white.....
No Christian gets involved in a debate. All religious debates are nothing more that satan casting out satan.
fr he looked tired I think he just got out of the ER like a day before
@@Flickerwink yeah he was in the ER like the day before. He’s wore down.. I feel like he was consistent like he always was but was struggling health wise.. he said he probably felt 70% for that debate. And still battling it. I don’t know how he got thru all these debates, he’s been sickly for over a month seems like.
*All Calvinists: Where do get the Nonsensical Idea that God damns people to hell before they are born ??*
Great discussion. I’ve never understood how many do not understand the basic concept of God’s total sovereignty. It must be pride. To everyone crying about Calvinism …sorry not sorry to burst your prideful bubble…but yes God chose those who would believe ..and He did so before the creation of the universe. Done. Then …shocker…all of those people…believed. Nothing has ever happened that God didn’t ordain to happen. Ever. But in our puny minds it may FEEL like we struck out on our own…made up our own mind and chose to believe. lol Ok fine..run with that. But it was God who chose you to believe in the first place…gave you the Spirit, faith, and ability to believe…which you could never spark up on your own. (Spiritually dead)
And Philippians 1:6 brings it home. What God starts…He finishes. Period.
(And if someone does not finish? He was never a chosen Christian to begin with. Read John)
Thanks again for a wonderful discussion of Biblical truth fellas! Love this podcast. God bless. :)
God did not choose those he knew would believe. I hope you understand this. Those few who actually believe only believe because God has made them spiritually alive. Thier belief only comes after they are born again, it is a result/fruit of them already being saved.
Now, as to a universe that you mention. Where does the Bible state that God made a universe? The fact is, he didnt. The idea of a universe only comes from Godless mankind and their 100% fake manmade religion of scientism that is the real religion of the entire church.
Anyone who believes in/thinks there is, a universe is not and cannot be a Christian.
@@exposingfakechristianity5556 literally wrong on everything you just said. Everything. I am walking into an appointment right now…but have a lot to respond to this. Lol. You really are lost on all of this. Will continue this later today
@@jplifesong ,...Sorry but no, I am not wrong and have provided you with the truth. Everything I stated is correct. It is only in opposition to your/the churches, counterfeit (antichrist) christianity.
I will be waiting for your response and to you showing me where the Bible tells us that God made a universe.
Christ died for ALL humanity, Jesus said He does not want anyone to perish.
I believe all humanity will receive the Gospel and will choose for themselves before He returns, but to say He only died for the elect?No!
Those who accept Christ and are born again ARE the elect.
I can't think that millions of people are born and destined for hell. Eventhough i believe God already knows who His children are, He knows His sheep.
He gives everyone a choice.
I believe God draws ALL, and He died for ALL, eventhough not everyone will come to Him.
Don't know why it's called calvanism, like Mormonism, they look at the bible through the eyes of Joseph Smith. I know mormonism is way of in their false beliefs.
Just say your a follower of Christ, Gospel being God came in the flesh(Jesus) to die for our sins(humanity) and Jesus rose on the third day and now sits on the right hand of the Father.
Christ is coming to draw us to Him in the rapture and then He will return for judgment after the tribulation period.
I think Jesus must just return now to sort all this out, to many twistings of His word.
I'm not a calvanist or a this or that...i'm a follower of Christ, saved by grace through faith.
God predetmined that whoever believed in Him would be saved and whoever rejected Him would perish. God does not predetmine who would believe.
Yes, man is totally depraved and unable to save himself. But God endured the cross to redeem us. God offers the gift of salvation to all people.
Timothy 2:3-6 - *all*
John 3:16 - *whoever*
Titus 2:11 - *all*
2 Peter 3:9 - *all*
God draws us *all* to Him!
John 12:32- And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw *all* peoples to Myself
God offers the gift of salvation to those who believe in Him!
John 6:47 - he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
No one perishes because God rejected them or witheld some necessary grace needed to compel them to come to Jesus. They perish for refusing to believe in God and accept His gift of salvation.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 - they perish because they refuse to love the truth and so be saved.
God gives us free will to accept or reject His gift of salvation. Yes, man is totally depraved and unable to save himself, but man is able to respond to the gospel/Holy Spirit and put their faith in Jesus Christ. Read Ephesians 2, faith is not a work.
Beautifully stated. If it was all pre-determined then there would be no free will, which would mean Jesus' sacrifice for us would be meaningless, since no one could actually choose to accept His gift of salvation.
Just because God knows what's going to happen does not mean that He controls us like puppets to make it happen. Free will is one of the many things that God gave us to set us apart from animals, and which makes us made in His image.
Well then, God bless you. You did it! You made the right choice. He couldn't have done it without you.
So you, in effect, save yourself?
@@ogmakefirefiregood God did all the work in my salvation. Jesus died on the cross to offer the gift of salvation to whoever would put their faith in Him. Read Ephesians 2, putting your faith in God is not a work.
@@demo4444 I did not save myself. God saved me. God did all the work in my salvation. Jesus died on the cross to offer the gift of salvation to whoever would put their faith in Him. Read Ephesians 2, putting your faith in God is not a work.
Honestly the debate between Calvinists and Armenians in my mind is quite Petty they just keep continuing the argument every generation for the past 500 years
Let’s be honest: there was general consensus among the Church until Arminius decided to swim the Tiber back to Rome on the issue of Soteriology. Calvinists are standing on the same ground as the Reformers.
The argument is petty only when the subject is of no significance. God’s grace and sovereignty are of utmost significance.
i agree. I still cant understand the hatred between the two. Its not significant to me. I think people just like to be tribalized and root for their “team"
Man, so many of these comments are tiresome.
I could never be a calvinist
@@ChristisLord70 😂 umm that would be the other way around buddy….. you’re the one who says God predetermines and controls everything including what people believe.
So how is he not able to make this person a calvinist? Weak…
Then you will scream. You are then fire-food, made evil so that you may be punished and serve the delight of all decent believers.
@@somexp12Don’t be weird.
@@somexp12 What is wrong with you? First of all, God doesn’t glory in the death of the wicket and neither should we. Secondly, don’t sow discord among brethren. You are probably a heretic or unsaved yourself, so don’t bother to share your opinion on debates within Christianity.
I guess if you don't believe in the dogma of free will then you can believe this nonsence. Funny how you call others unorthodox.
Free choice is the only way for real love. God is love.
Please show where Scripture teaches this concept.
@@douglasmcnay644 No one perishes because God rejected them or witheld some necessary grace needed to compel them to come to Jesus. They perish for refusing to believe in God and accept His gift of salvation.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 - they perish because they refuse to love the truth and so be saved.
@@douglasmcnay644I did. God is love.
We all have free choice and we all chose sin. Once you choose sin, that is it, you are now dead in your trespasses and sins. You are now enemies of Christ. You are like a child who is ignoring the instruction of the father and is running out onto a busy street because you want to anyway, despite what dad told you to do. But God, out of His perfect love and grace, reaches down and snatches up the child, overriding his will. That is love. The loving father does not just throw up his hands and say, "oh well, he has free will and chose to run out into traffic."
@@daltonnelson94
”the Spirit of truth, whom *the world cannot receive* , because it does not see Him or know Him. You know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.“
John 14:17
Is Paul contradicting Jesus? Make it make sense.
It was so obvious that Leighton was trying to provide context to point out how Calvinists interpret John 6:44. White kept avoiding all his questions and refused to engage. What a cop out. Why is White even upset, if God predetermined how the debate was going to go? His complaints won't even make sense.
The reason Dr. White didn’t answer a lot of questions is because they were not relevant to the topic of debate. Leighton, as he always does, tries to invoke feelings more than proper exegesis of the verses involved. Dr. White clearly pointed out Leighton’s plan of attack ( reading verse 45 out of context and going backwards from there). Dr. White clearly won this debate, period!!
People need to drop this silly topic... and... Can you image? JUST PREACH THE GOSPEL!!
Apparently you aren’t familiar with Apologia if your implication is they don’t.
@@MansterBear
... "JUST"...
@@jessebryant9233 so never talk about anything other than the gospel?
Do you yourself do that?
@@MansterBear
Are you actually an idiot or just a troll?
@@MansterBear
Seriously? You can't be this stupid without making a great deal of effort...
More defending of calvanism, this almost seems like a cult, and why would you say that the apostles didn't go around preaching that Jesus loves you when John 3:16 tells us that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that who ever believes in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life.
And where in the bible do the apostles go around saying that Jesus died only for the elect, and if you're lucky enough you maybe one of them, if not then bad luck, you're going to burn in hell for an eternity and there's nothing you can do about it.
And I think that’s the point exactly, to those who hear it and DO fear & repent, those will be saved. Whereas those who do NOT care for it, won’t, and will burn. Ya know what I mean?
@@Judoka512 I know what you mean, but that's not what these guys think, they think God chooses who to save and who not to save.
@@benjy288 As do I. Matthew 11:27, one of my newest verses seems to say that
@@Judoka512 That's not what the bible teaches, John 3:16 that whoever believes in him shall not perish.
@@benjy288 So Jesus was lying? Or contradicting himself? Not so, we alone can do nothing, God himself must draw us in. It’s an incredibly humbling thing to know that the Lord of glory chose YOU or ME to save… why me? Why me? Because of his love, not because of my decision. If I chose Jesus, than I get the credit in that case. I decided to choose God, God didn’t choose me. It’s heresy sir.
The problem I see, is that the moment you give it a name, you create a division in the body:
“I’m a Calvinist, you’re not”
Now you have two groups who aren’t in unity.
I see these types of things are not only useless for advancing the Kingdom of God, but counter-productive.
The problem is, when a heresy pops up, you suddenly actually need a name for the proper doctrine to contrast it with said heresy. So we're going to end up with these labels no matter what.
The divisions are already there. This just puts a name on them.
Back when I was a kid growing up in backwoods southern Baptist churches, the way Grace and salvation was preached was very Calvinistic although the labels and the system behind it weren’t elaborated on..they would reject predestination, gloss over election, but still preach that Gods grace thru faith has to save u. All while still pretty much preaching a works Gospel, blurring law and gospel together.. every Sunday was basically making people think if there not doing this or that they aren’t really saved. I can look back now and see how confusing it was.. the doctrines of grace and studying covenants and law gospel distinction helped me see things full circle in the Bible to have a full assurance and reconcile all aspects of my faith. I made a profession at 8yo and pretty much lived my life in a legalistic cage… I didn’t have a new relationship with my sin, I loved my sin. Thankfully by Gods grace I was regenerated at 33 years old and seen for the first time in my life who exactly I was, my sin and who God really was!! I was just living in a legalistic cage with God looking more like a cosmic Santa clause than a Holy God. I hate labels as well, but sometimes without the labels things get blurred together and becomes an even more confusing mess.. so sometimes they can be helpful.
*All Calvinists: Where do get the Nonsensical Idea that God damns people to hell before they are born ??*