The perseverance of the saints is being kept by the love of God. Armenians also hold to this doctrine. I have recently come out of the doctrine of Calvinism, for which I thank God. I wouldn't call myself an Arminian, though. The Calvinists use the same vocabulary but a different dictionary. Mike Winger has very clear teaching on the subject from the scriptures.
@@judylloyd7901 lf you just came out of Calvinism...then you never truly understood the Doctrines of Grace. It's scripture...that's absolutely all it is. Kind of like an outline. Do you think that anyone can come to God alone, with no drawing from the Father? No Regeneration from the Holy Spirit? Jesus himself said twice "No man can come to me.... except ( unless) the Father draws him..." John 6:44 📖 v65 says the same but "No man can come unless it is granted by my Father." I know that l was a false convert most of my life. Then when l least expected...God sent His Holy Spirit to regenerate me into New Spiritual life. It's all to God's Glory ...📖🌷✝️
@judylloyd7901 Amen! William Lane Craig has some great teachings on the perseverance of the saints in his "Defenders" bible class. He compares and contrasts various options, pointing out views like Schreiner (and Sproul, MacArthur, etc.) fail to appreciate the nuance and distinction of answering two seperate questions: 1. Will any elect person fall from grace and lose salvation? ("de facto" question - in fact. Is it in fact the case, that they will fall away?) 2. Can an elect person fall away? ("modal" question - What can or cannot happen. Is it possible for an elect to fall away?) According to Dr. Craig's view, an elect person can fall away, but if they trust and follow God, they will not fall away. One the other hand, If you start with determinism, God determines all things via His divine decree. This view makes God a moral monster, and destroys love, because love requires freedom as an essential characteristic. A Molinist perspective offers a view which makes sense of scripture, theology, and reason.
"If you only LOOK at God as Judge, you'll believe you can lose your salvation. If you see God as eternal Savior, who daily waits at the crossroad looking, Waiting for his prodigal,........."
Can't merit Grace... God does not stand at the cross roads waiting...He is calling us out of the dead like Lazarus by name or leaving us n the tombs through the preaching of the gospel.
If the perseverance of the Saints isn’t a biblical doctrine, then we can’t have lasting trust in what Jesus said in John 6:37-40, John 10:27-30, and His high Priestly prayer in John 17. Am I aware of the warnings? Like in John 15? Yes, but how can I trust Jesus to say with 100% accuracy that He said “I should lose nothing of all He has given Me.” If I can be lost? If I can be lost and others in Christ can eventually fall away (like Hebrews 6:4-6 says) Then Jesus words lack truth and meaning in those verses in John. And Jesus seems to look like half a savior since not most of the elect will make it under that view. How do I solve the problem of Hebrews 6:4-6? By looking at Hebrews 6:9. “But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.” Hebrews 6:9 (the prior verses 6:4-6, is a manner of speaking, and I believe the author of Hebrews is trying to then move from that example of impossibility to restore a believer to repentance if he falls away to then point out that they can be confident of better things, things that accompany salvation.). {which wouldn’t include falling away}. Jesus said “And I will raise him up at the last day.” Not “I might raise him up”. If I’m wrong on eternal security, than salvation is as weak as a spider’s web in heavy winds.
I've debated this topic over and over and over. What is clear for some is blurry for others....and those on both sides of the fence will agree with that. Only God can open eyes. I'll just say if eternal security were true the New Testament could've been wrapped up with just a few verses of blessed assurance rather than several books of Godly teaching. Let us all study and pray for understanding.
Well unless you believe that the scripture that tells us how to live is the means by which He keeps us. That’s essentially the argument that if God already knows what will happen and has the power to do what He wants, we might as well not worry about praying. Following His commands is a privilege and the means by which He sanctified us. But I do agree about it being difficult and blurry on both sides for sure. God bless brother
@@quinnpeterson2716 He saves us and whether we keep it or not is left in our hands. We all have free will to do as we please...except for rare occasions like Paul, Paul did not choose God, God chose Paul. And even Paul said he kept himself in line to keep from being a castaway himself...1st corinthians 9:27. Paul was talking about running the race and finishing the race....believing in Jesus and following Him in life. Too many these days believe they finish at the start. Being saved isn't the last step but the first. We must live fruitful lives or we will be cast away. Jesus said any branch in Him that doesn't bear fruit will be taken away. The popular belief today held by so many and taught by so many is that once they are saved they are assured of eternity in God's kingdom regardless of what they do or how they live after being saved. Consider the parable of the talents...those that were fruitful with what they had been given were given more while the one who sat on what he was given and did nothing lost all. God bless you too! And, let's all continue studying our Father's Word and pray for understanding!
Monergism...God only saves we are dead in trespasses. Once regenerated we can cooperate with God that's Synergism. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who is both doing and willing and working in you.
This was a very timely message for me. Thanks be to God for his perfect timing and His great love for his children.
I stand upon this Truth! Thank you, Jesus!
Maaaaan. I need to grasp this, having been sitting under arminian teaching for decades.
The perseverance of the saints is being kept by the love of God. Armenians also hold to this doctrine. I have recently come out of the doctrine of Calvinism, for which I thank God. I wouldn't call myself an Arminian, though.
The Calvinists use the same vocabulary but a different dictionary. Mike Winger has very clear teaching on the subject from the scriptures.
@@judylloyd7901 lf you just came out of Calvinism...then you never truly understood the Doctrines of Grace. It's scripture...that's absolutely all it is. Kind of like an outline. Do you think that anyone can come to God alone, with no drawing from the Father? No Regeneration from the Holy Spirit? Jesus himself said twice "No man can come to me.... except ( unless) the Father draws him..." John 6:44 📖 v65 says the same but "No man can come unless it is granted by my Father." I know that l was a false convert most of my life. Then when l least expected...God sent His Holy Spirit to regenerate me into New Spiritual life. It's all to God's Glory ...📖🌷✝️
@@michellecheriekjv4115 Amen. Amen!
@@judylloyd7901 Judy Judy Judy....never really knew what you were taught....winger what a joke
@judylloyd7901 Amen! William Lane Craig has some great teachings on the perseverance of the saints in his "Defenders" bible class. He compares and contrasts various options, pointing out views like Schreiner (and Sproul, MacArthur, etc.) fail to appreciate the nuance and distinction of answering two seperate questions:
1. Will any elect person fall from grace and lose salvation? ("de facto" question - in fact. Is it in fact the case, that they will fall away?)
2. Can an elect person fall away? ("modal" question - What can or cannot happen. Is it possible for an elect to fall away?)
According to Dr. Craig's view, an elect person can fall away, but if they trust and follow God, they will not fall away.
One the other hand, If you start with determinism, God determines all things via His divine decree. This view makes God a moral monster, and destroys love, because love requires freedom as an essential characteristic.
A Molinist perspective offers a view which makes sense of scripture, theology, and reason.
Beautiful message and teaching..God Bless You and Thank you
"If you only LOOK at God as Judge, you'll believe you can lose your salvation. If you see God as eternal Savior, who daily waits at the crossroad looking, Waiting for his prodigal,........."
Can't merit Grace... God does not stand at the cross roads waiting...He is calling us out of the dead like Lazarus by name or leaving us n the tombs through the preaching of the gospel.
There is a difference between the perseverence of man and the perseverence of God.
Rock hard
If the perseverance of the Saints isn’t a biblical doctrine, then we can’t have lasting trust in what Jesus said in John 6:37-40, John 10:27-30, and His high Priestly prayer in John 17.
Am I aware of the warnings? Like in John 15?
Yes, but how can I trust Jesus to say with 100% accuracy that He said “I should lose nothing of all He has given Me.” If I can be lost?
If I can be lost and others in Christ can eventually fall away (like Hebrews 6:4-6 says)
Then Jesus words lack truth and meaning in those verses in John. And Jesus seems to look like half a savior since not most of the elect will make it under that view.
How do I solve the problem of Hebrews 6:4-6? By looking at Hebrews 6:9.
“But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.”
Hebrews 6:9
(the prior verses 6:4-6, is a manner of speaking, and I believe the author of Hebrews is trying to then move from that example of impossibility to restore a believer to repentance if he falls away to then point out that they can be confident of better things, things that accompany salvation.). {which wouldn’t include falling away}.
Jesus said “And I will raise him up at the last day.” Not “I might raise him up”.
If I’m wrong on eternal security, than salvation is as weak as a spider’s web in heavy winds.
I've debated this topic over and over and over. What is clear for some is blurry for others....and those on both sides of the fence will agree with that. Only God can open eyes. I'll just say if eternal security were true the New Testament could've been wrapped up with just a few verses of blessed assurance rather than several books of Godly teaching. Let us all study and pray for understanding.
Well unless you believe that the scripture that tells us how to live is the means by which He keeps us. That’s essentially the argument that if God already knows what will happen and has the power to do what He wants, we might as well not worry about praying. Following His commands is a privilege and the means by which He sanctified us.
But I do agree about it being difficult and blurry on both sides for sure. God bless brother
@@quinnpeterson2716 He saves us and whether we keep it or not is left in our hands. We all have free will to do as we please...except for rare occasions like Paul, Paul did not choose God, God chose Paul. And even Paul said he kept himself in line to keep from being a castaway himself...1st corinthians 9:27. Paul was talking about running the race and finishing the race....believing in Jesus and following Him in life. Too many these days believe they finish at the start. Being saved isn't the last step but the first. We must live fruitful lives or we will be cast away. Jesus said any branch in Him that doesn't bear fruit will be taken away. The popular belief today held by so many and taught by so many is that once they are saved they are assured of eternity in God's kingdom regardless of what they do or how they live after being saved. Consider the parable of the talents...those that were fruitful with what they had been given were given more while the one who sat on what he was given and did nothing lost all. God bless you too! And, let's all continue studying our Father's Word and pray for understanding!
Monergism...God only saves we are dead in trespasses. Once regenerated we can cooperate with God that's Synergism. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who is both doing and willing and working in you.