As a thirty year police officer 24 and deputy 6 in calif and Idaho the problem in policing in America is the same problem and trajectory government politics are on . The failure to understand the rule of law , constitution, and untrustworthy media all contribute to the issue. Our public schools teach minimal of any constitution law or basic foundation of a constitutional republic. Rather than teach these topics and basic life skills like how to balance a bank account, how to buy a house, how to move forward in a capitalist economy public and historical colleges are pushing divesrsity and how to complain about any differences in politics or personal views on human diversity. None of these ideas make a person or society including g policing. Not to mention reducing basic standards to include more applicants in hiring. This reduces the quality safe and professional delivery of police services. This trajectory the nation has been on since I began my career in 1977 thru 2007 and exponentially increased speed after I retired. This country will unfortunately continue down this road until the majority of society gets involved in the American political process and holds government officials accountable for their failures including law enforcement administrators. With the improved ability to receive training from hands on to sites like this one current officer safety and basic. Police topics laws off arrest etc. are continuing to improve along with quality of equipment improving. But without the overall beliefs in our culture this country is based on and accountability. Which by the way the line officers are held to unbelievably high standards, this country will still be in decline. One more important omperixal fact which had been proven by our military and law enforcement is behavior while working is directly related to amount of training. Agencies do not have or will not provide continuous training because of staffing and financial issues. More training equals better outcome of your resources and their decision making skills. And what departments fail to understand is one lawsuit because of inadequate traing costs much more than the traing does.
I'll admit I didn't watch this video that closely and still commenting. From real world experience as a beat cop in a metropolitan on the outskirts of Baltimore City. The reason Baltimore doesn't make national headlines like other cites for how dangerous Baltimore is, is because Baltimore and the surrounding area has beat cops and executive corp that still believe in catching criminals and holding them accountable. Not for long. Baltimore is on the verge of being a mainstay on national news. From first hand experience and seen officers body cams that I couldn't believe the stuff didn't go viral. With that being said, Officers i had a privilege to serve with were studs straight up street sweepers. Unfortunately, more and more great officers were getting into BS jack pots because the department started humoring civilian complaints and forced IA investigations due to their proactiveness. If lies and fraud is enabled, it empowers those who do. Departments and officers may lie, but politicians and criminals just about always lie. Why would a officer put their career, livelihood, and their life on the line for proactive police work when departments/courts across the nation are not praising officers for their good work, holding actual criminals accountable and not promoting or moving stud officers to specialized units. Departments are incentivizing report takers, yes officers, petty traffic stats, and petty applications for charges. To be blunt, those officers are fat or out of shape and are relatively complacent. Hence how we get acorn enforcement. We are noticing more shit activities by police because there are more shitbags being hired because shit bags do the paperwork and rat their way out of tough Calls for service. Yeah shitbags get caught, but shitbags are pretty good at doing just enough to not get caught. This is more on the department then remotely on the officers. shitbag officers are an extension of shit policy. Good officers make sure they are trained and in shape and you'll never hear about them.
There is a ton of wisdom in this episode. 1) Interleave training so that diverse topics such as firearms and defensive tactics are trained holistically. 2) Use data and research to inform training (e.g., knife attack data shows the ineffectiveness of back pedaling) 3) Once you separate the hostage from the hostage taker, treat the incident like a solo barricade instead of continuing to push in and engage the suspect. 4) Vet the instructors who train you. Great job Jay, Kyle and Mark.
Jay is legit. I've seen him over the last few decades here in the Midwest. His first Blackbelt match was versus my instructor. Great to see him on the pod.
2nd Degree BJJ Black Belt and Department DT/EFC Instructor here for the last 1yr +….Soooooo fn happy for Jay and Adam in their success in EFC. Proud to fly the EFC flag at my academy❤❤
The best thing we ever did was to integrate DT and firearms with scenario training. Stress inoculation is paramount in training. Training, outside of what the agency provides, always provides more confidence and gives options. Great discussion, Gentlemen.
What about Uvalde TX? It seems like none of the cops wanted to step up and save those poor kids. Parents were trying and willing to go get there kid's.
Yeah, no. You're not stopping me from getting my kids if their lives are in imminent danger and the police presence isn't actively attempting to remove the threat. Cops failed hard in that one. @@michaelrubow1759
@@michaelrubow1759 the #uck you say. How could the parents make it worse in that instance? Their kids were already shot on the floor bleeding out. Or already dead.
Why do so many LEOs swear an oath to uphold our constitutional rights, to get their badge and gun, but very few know the rights citizens have? It's those officers who retaliate against citizens who know their rights, and exercises them! The things the LEOs say about and to a citizen, who knows their rights, is truly scary and disgusting! How can they uphold our rights, when they don't know what those rights are?
So much good information here I don’t know where to begin. My opinion is institutional culture still rule Department training. It’s old it’s easy and checks the box. It does not prepare anyone for the reality of confrontation. There are many good outside trainers that can fix the training issues but Police Departments and cops have been conditioned to only use training that is department provided. The handful of officers that seek out training on their own and pay for it on their own definitely benefit. That’s a shame. I found it interesting that you talked about movement and not going too far into a situation where your options are limited. That’s the biggest problem that is never addressed in normal training. The further you go into any situation the fewer options you have.
New police officers think that training in the academy is all they need. Once they’re out, they walk tall with gun and badge thinking they’re cool but there’s more to it. Police officers need to be hybrids. Learn different tactics and/or way to improve their skills because an inexperienced officer is more likely to get injured or killed. This podcast was a perfect example that more training is needed after the academy.
39:30. While I know this is a 3rd-hand relayed story, but I wonder what communication the senior officer gave the new guys. Sometimes opportunity strikes and you can't, but we often fail when we don't communicate with each other
Politics have made some officers gun shy. If your afraid to use your weapon maybe policing shouldn't be your thing. I couldn't do the job couldn't handle the stress involved. Pro LEO here and you all STAY SAFE out there!!
I'm not in LE but LE is interesting to me. I watch tons of TH-cam videos on it. Here is a civilians perspective on the state of LE: (1) Police are woefully undertrained. Their empty hand skills are almost non-existent. Sure, not every cop but the vast majority. State legislation needs to change because PD only trains to the state minimum it seems. (2) What is with all the pistol malfunctions? Maybe it is just me but I've seen way to many pistol malfunctions recently. (3) Police are too often escalating a situation needlessly. This is changing, however, with the more recent deescalating training I've seen. (4) Too many cops can't check their own ego and bad things happen. (5) Rifles: They have a time and a place but IMO they are brought out too often. I've seen many times where the cops' rifle becomes a liability because now they have to go hands on with this rifle to also manage. There is a video of a naked guy assaulting people and the cop brought a rifle...lol. Cop wasn't very helpful because the naked guy was on drugs causing mayhem and the cops rifle was getting in the way. Again, this is just a civilians perspective.
They don't get their weapons in order. Every make and manufacture of handgun has specific ammo that will feed well. You have to figure out what that is by testing different ammo. Also they probably let their mags sit fully loaded for long periods of time and that weakens the spring. We used to load M14 mags with only 15 rounds for that reason.
It’s amazing how much knowledge has been lost just in the last decade. Stuff we were trained in, tactics etc, have been absolutely lost. The 8 cops shot in NC yesterday makes me wonder what the hell happened to get EIGHT shot by one guy. All the knowledge has left due to the political and media climate and nobody is left to pass on the hard lessons learned.
The biggest issue I see is training and training with stress. Our agency is a very large agency 9-10k officers. You get trained in the academy and then very minimal training each year. Most Officers in patrol are doing the best they can, but it’s usually cringe watching it. The issue is how do you train officers when money and time is an issue? Patrol is short staffed and couldn’t even lose a few cops a day for training. There isn’t time during your shift to train because it’s busy with calls. Our unit offers training every month for building searching and Active shooter. Unfortunately we get about 4-6 hours to cover all of that. We’re lucky if they even remember what they learned a week later. Departments truly hold the responsibility for a lot of the issues we see. Now you can say we’ll seek training outside of the department. I agree and I did throughout the years. That said the other 95% of the department will not do that. I’d argue 80% of the department is there for a check and benefits. They still do their job and wanna help people, but they aren’t your first choice in a serious situation. I honestly can’t even say what would fix this. Definitely something we need to look at and see a realistic solution.
No, the biggest issue is the fact that cops are the most dishonest workers in America!!! The fact that you can't see that it's proof that your head is buried in the sand!
There is no one answer since there are multiple causes. homelessness, drug addiction, and mental health care all play a roll. I believe the criminal justice system needs to differentiate between different root causes. Currently jails and prisons are used as mental health facilities. I think criminally guilty but mentally ill should be a separate type of facility. I would like to hear ideas on dealing with gang incarceration, . If visitors are the source of contraband then maybe visiting needs to be reconsidered. I don’t think this is a “one size fits all” situation. At the basics laws are necessary for society and law enforcement is required to have a safe society. Support and respect for law enforcement is critical. That is a joint project. Weed out corruption and zero tolerance for offenses against law enforcement. Zero tolerance for those who are predators against fellow citizens. And recognize the multiple causes of crime required multiple responses. I would love to see solution based discussions as opposed to infighting. Ok, if I’m just being naive I apologize.
by the way guys i got the volume cranked all the way up and i can hardly hear y'all .... p.s. the guy with the beard gets the problem best out of the 3 of you.
There is so much talk about training here. It seems to be focused on officer safety. Why is the focus not on citizen safety? My stats are not perfect here, it's what I recollect. 2022 47 officers Kia by citizens 1387 citizens killed by government
no offense but this is not what people expected or wanted - if they see the title and then 3 cop etc.. then have their hopes really go up? - then they see 3 yahoo's talking about how to be more efficient on arresting people?? no..people were hoping for a better resolution to the broken police culture, if you guys are not aware of that this whole podcast was a waste.
What do you think is the problem with policing in today’s America? Let us know below.
As a thirty year police officer 24 and deputy 6 in calif and Idaho the problem in policing in America is the same problem and trajectory government politics are on . The failure to understand the rule of law , constitution, and untrustworthy media all contribute to the issue. Our public schools teach minimal of any constitution law or basic foundation of a constitutional republic. Rather than teach these topics and basic life skills like how to balance a bank account, how to buy a house, how to move forward in a capitalist economy public and historical colleges are pushing divesrsity and how to complain about any differences in politics or personal views on human diversity. None of these ideas make a person or society including g policing. Not to mention reducing basic standards to include more applicants in hiring. This reduces the quality safe and professional delivery of police services. This trajectory the nation has been on since I began my career in 1977 thru 2007 and exponentially increased speed after I retired. This country will unfortunately continue down this road until the majority of society gets involved in the American political process and holds government officials accountable for their failures including law enforcement administrators. With the improved ability to receive training from hands on to sites like this one current officer safety and basic. Police topics laws off arrest etc. are continuing to improve along with quality of equipment improving. But without the overall beliefs in our culture this country is based on and accountability. Which by the way the line officers are held to unbelievably high standards, this country will still be in decline. One more important omperixal fact which had been proven by our military and law enforcement is behavior while working is directly related to amount of training. Agencies do not have or will not provide continuous training because of staffing and financial issues. More training equals better outcome of your resources and their decision making skills. And what departments fail to understand is one lawsuit because of inadequate traing costs much more than the traing does.
Lawlessness is the problem. It is the fault of Parents and Grandparents.
I'll admit I didn't watch this video that closely and still commenting. From real world experience as a beat cop in a metropolitan on the outskirts of Baltimore City. The reason Baltimore doesn't make national headlines like other cites for how dangerous Baltimore is, is because Baltimore and the surrounding area has beat cops and executive corp that still believe in catching criminals and holding them accountable. Not for long. Baltimore is on the verge of being a mainstay on national news. From first hand experience and seen officers body cams that I couldn't believe the stuff didn't go viral. With that being said, Officers i had a privilege to serve with were studs straight up street sweepers. Unfortunately, more and more great officers were getting into BS jack pots because the department started humoring civilian complaints and forced IA investigations due to their proactiveness. If lies and fraud is enabled, it empowers those who do. Departments and officers may lie, but politicians and criminals just about always lie. Why would a officer put their career, livelihood, and their life on the line for proactive police work when departments/courts across the nation are not praising officers for their good work, holding actual criminals accountable and not promoting or moving stud officers to specialized units. Departments are incentivizing report takers, yes officers, petty traffic stats, and petty applications for charges. To be blunt, those officers are fat or out of shape and are relatively complacent. Hence how we get acorn enforcement. We are noticing more shit activities by police because there are more shitbags being hired because shit bags do the paperwork and rat their way out of tough Calls for service. Yeah shitbags get caught, but shitbags are pretty good at doing just enough to not get caught. This is more on the department then remotely on the officers. shitbag officers are an extension of shit policy. Good officers make sure they are trained and in shape and you'll never hear about them.
Reduction in hiring standards and a significant increase in societal douchebaggery
Lack of training is a huge problem with policing.
There is a ton of wisdom in this episode.
1) Interleave training so that diverse topics such as firearms and defensive tactics are trained holistically.
2) Use data and research to inform training (e.g., knife attack data shows the ineffectiveness of back pedaling)
3) Once you separate the hostage from the hostage taker, treat the incident like a solo barricade instead of continuing to push in and engage the suspect.
4) Vet the instructors who train you.
Great job Jay, Kyle and Mark.
Jay is legit. I've seen him over the last few decades here in the Midwest. His first Blackbelt match was versus my instructor. Great to see him on the pod.
2nd Degree BJJ Black Belt and Department DT/EFC Instructor here for the last 1yr +….Soooooo fn happy for Jay and Adam in their success in EFC. Proud to fly the EFC flag at my academy❤❤
Perfect timing for this video ! Spot on. Cops, admin and legislators all need to be better. Quit using poor tactics.
And what about the well-known fact that police are the most dishonest workers in America and none of them can be trusted?
The best thing we ever did was to integrate DT and firearms with scenario training. Stress inoculation is paramount in training. Training, outside of what the agency provides, always provides more confidence and gives options. Great discussion, Gentlemen.
What about Uvalde TX? It seems like none of the cops wanted to step up and save those poor kids. Parents were trying and willing to go get there kid's.
Parents won’t get skull dragged through the media or sued for not trying to “de escalate”
Parents made that situation way worse, and do in every incident at a school.
Yeah, no. You're not stopping me from getting my kids if their lives are in imminent danger and the police presence isn't actively attempting to remove the threat. Cops failed hard in that one. @@michaelrubow1759
@@michaelrubow1759 the #uck you say.
How could the parents make it worse in that instance?
Their kids were already shot on the floor bleeding out. Or already dead.
Why do so many LEOs swear an oath to uphold our constitutional rights, to get their badge and gun, but very few know the rights citizens have? It's those officers who retaliate against citizens who know their rights, and exercises them! The things the LEOs say about and to a citizen, who knows their rights, is truly scary and disgusting! How can they uphold our rights, when they don't know what those rights are?
So much good information here I don’t know where to begin. My opinion is institutional culture still rule Department training. It’s old it’s easy and checks the box. It does not prepare anyone for the reality of confrontation. There are many good outside trainers that can fix the training issues but Police Departments and cops have been conditioned to only use training that is department provided. The handful of officers that seek out training on their own and pay for it on their own definitely benefit. That’s a shame. I found it interesting that you talked about movement and not going too far into a situation where your options are limited. That’s the biggest problem that is never addressed in normal training. The further you go into any situation the fewer options you have.
New police officers think that training in the academy is all they need. Once they’re out, they walk tall with gun and badge thinking they’re cool but there’s more to it. Police officers need to be hybrids. Learn different tactics and/or way to improve their skills because an inexperienced officer is more likely to get injured or killed. This podcast was a perfect example that more training is needed after the academy.
Great Episode Fellas!
39:30. While I know this is a 3rd-hand relayed story, but I wonder what communication the senior officer gave the new guys. Sometimes opportunity strikes and you can't, but we often fail when we don't communicate with each other
EFC is a great program! Good episode, Jay and Kyle!
Agree enjoy knowledge taught here and mostly pro leos..did you enjoy San Diego I born and raised here love my membership at zoo
Politics have made some officers gun shy. If your afraid to use your weapon maybe policing shouldn't be your thing. I couldn't do the job couldn't handle the stress involved. Pro LEO here and you all STAY SAFE out there!!
And what about the fact that police are the most dishonest workers in America? Where does that come from???
Truly appreciate the work you guys put in and all of the information. Curious if you do any training courses with Indianapolis?
I'm not in LE but LE is interesting to me. I watch tons of TH-cam videos on it. Here is a civilians perspective on the state of LE: (1) Police are woefully undertrained. Their empty hand skills are almost non-existent. Sure, not every cop but the vast majority. State legislation needs to change because PD only trains to the state minimum it seems. (2) What is with all the pistol malfunctions? Maybe it is just me but I've seen way to many pistol malfunctions recently. (3) Police are too often escalating a situation needlessly. This is changing, however, with the more recent deescalating training I've seen. (4) Too many cops can't check their own ego and bad things happen. (5) Rifles: They have a time and a place but IMO they are brought out too often. I've seen many times where the cops' rifle becomes a liability because now they have to go hands on with this rifle to also manage. There is a video of a naked guy assaulting people and the cop brought a rifle...lol. Cop wasn't very helpful because the naked guy was on drugs causing mayhem and the cops rifle was getting in the way.
Again, this is just a civilians perspective.
They don't get their weapons in order. Every make and manufacture of handgun has specific ammo that will feed well. You have to figure out what that is by testing different ammo. Also they probably let their mags sit fully loaded for long periods of time and that weakens the spring. We used to load M14 mags with only 15 rounds for that reason.
A "civilians perspective" from "my vast TH-cam and internet experience" 🤡🤡.
It’s amazing how much knowledge has been lost just in the last decade. Stuff we were trained in, tactics etc, have been absolutely lost. The 8 cops shot in NC yesterday makes me wonder what the hell happened to get EIGHT shot by one guy. All the knowledge has left due to the political and media climate and nobody is left to pass on the hard lessons learned.
The biggest issue I see is training and training with stress. Our agency is a very large agency 9-10k officers. You get trained in the academy and then very minimal training each year. Most Officers in patrol are doing the best they can, but it’s usually cringe watching it.
The issue is how do you train officers when money and time is an issue? Patrol is short staffed and couldn’t even lose a few cops a day for training. There isn’t time during your shift to train because it’s busy with calls.
Our unit offers training every month for building searching and Active shooter. Unfortunately we get about 4-6 hours to cover all of that. We’re lucky if they even remember what they learned a week later.
Departments truly hold the responsibility for a lot of the issues we see. Now you can say we’ll seek training outside of the department. I agree and I did throughout the years. That said the other 95% of the department will not do that. I’d argue 80% of the department is there for a check and benefits. They still do their job and wanna help people, but they aren’t your first choice in a serious situation.
I honestly can’t even say what would fix this. Definitely something we need to look at and see a realistic solution.
No, the biggest issue is the fact that cops are the most dishonest workers in America!!! The fact that you can't see that it's proof that your head is buried in the sand!
I live in Spokane Washington and I’m glad our sheriff department is getting more training
It's not going to do anything about the fact that they are all liars that can't be trusted!
Important conversation for us to have as Americans. Interested in hearing more LE & Civilian perspectives in the comments.
There is no one answer since there are multiple causes. homelessness, drug addiction, and mental health care all play a roll. I believe the criminal justice system needs to differentiate between different root causes. Currently jails and prisons are used as mental health facilities. I think criminally guilty but mentally ill should be a separate type of facility. I would like to hear ideas on dealing with gang incarceration, . If visitors are the source of contraband then maybe visiting needs to be reconsidered. I don’t think this is a “one size fits all” situation. At the basics laws are necessary for society and law enforcement is required to have a safe society. Support and respect for law enforcement is critical. That is a joint project. Weed out corruption and zero tolerance for offenses against law enforcement. Zero tolerance for those who are predators against fellow citizens. And recognize the multiple causes of crime required multiple responses. I would love to see solution based discussions as opposed to infighting.
Ok, if I’m just being naive I apologize.
the guy with the hat needs to watch rambo 4 about 10 more times and he'll be alright...
by the way guys i got the volume cranked all the way up and i can hardly hear y'all .... p.s. the guy with the beard gets the problem best out of the 3 of you.
There is so much talk about training here. It seems to be focused on officer safety.
Why is the focus not on citizen safety?
My stats are not perfect here, it's what I recollect.
2022
47 officers Kia by citizens
1387 citizens killed by government
Have you stopped to consider officer safety as a priority would very likely result in fewer officers having to resort to using deadly force?
@hippiebits2071 yes. I considered it and dismissed it as an incorrect priority.
I’m curious, why would your fellow Leo be putting out bad content?
no offense but this is not what people expected or wanted - if they see the title and then 3 cop etc.. then have their hopes really go up? - then they see 3 yahoo's talking about how to be more efficient on arresting people?? no..people were hoping for a better resolution to the broken police culture, if you guys are not aware of that this whole podcast was a waste.
Let’s work on the destroyed society culture first. The cops are the response, your conduct is the stimulus.
Train a person
First Comment!!!!