The mob reacted strong and they back-peddled!! Incredible!! www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/waves-announce-reinstatement-of-perpetual-and-wup
HA! Didn't think they had the balls to carry it through. LMFAO!!!!!!🤣🤣 But thats a good thing! Thing is i reckon they've pissed enough people off to jump ship anyway.
It will be interesting to see how they handle the user who: - Owns Waves plugins already - Tries the subscription - Then, cancels the subscription. Will your perpetual licensed plugins continue to work?
Neil, so now that we can do the monthly subscription for all plug-ins, or perpetual license for each plug-in, what are your favorite Waves plug-ins? I'm not good with those timed or limited trials, but I might subscribe for a few months to try out some plug-ins before buying them
100% with you on this one! I absolutely hate subscription models. And it is for the following reasons: - When do they increase the prices? subscriptions can be changed or canceled - some software won't start if there's no internet, which is an absolute no-go for on location work - I can much better time my expenses with single purchases - i'd like to be able to archive my projects and be sure the software runs when needed in 20 years time. (provided the hardware still works) I much prefer a fee for a version of the software with a few years of support and then an upgrade fee to the next version (or stay where you are at) A vendor for PCB design software I use for electronics went from perpetual licensing to subscription a few years ago and people ditched the program at scale. Everyone is sick and tired of subscription models and folks are voting with their wallets. In my company we have a policy for non-subscription only with a few exceptions, and we do show quite a lot of sales reps the door.
I'll never use waves again. Music mixing and mastering, dialogue editor and film mixer here. Waves helped me when I was getting started, but now I'm moving on. I was putting off filling out my boutique plugin suites like fabfilter, so now I'll transition to using their plugins instead. Waves are now an afterthought.
I halfway agree with you. I am a professional graphic designer and I pay Adobe every month among other companies too, but I expense that as a part of my business. Music however, it's a hobby for me and I like having access to only the few plugins I purchased and I wouldn't mind paying to update them at some point. But not having a choice is what makes people feel betrayed.
Not everyone is running a business ... I am definitely not putting 15 or 25$ a month on plugins just from Waves ... if I was doing that for all the stuff I use for my music hobby ... it would be hundreds of dollars per month. Waves is dead to me.
I have 4 Mercury bundles for studio computers and 2 Mercury bundles for myself, and I've BEEN paying a subscription - the Waves update plan just to keep them all up to date hahahah. Unfortunately it's a staple of our industry so clients expect us to have it.
I am sure I am not the only one who knew that most software developers want to eventually want to go full subscription. This waves subscription is like a line in the sand. If we can make them feel the pain maybe we can stop other companies from going this far.
Neil, not everyone is running a business, some make music purely for the pleasure of it, like me who cut their teeth in this tech world starting with Pro 24 (yes that long ago), through cubase to logic and now Pro Tools. I was there when Avid started their subscription model and saw all the forums up in arms saying they were back off to Cubase, Logic or jumping to new DAWs like Lunar. I hate having to renew my perpetual licence with Pro Tools but, as I use it, I put up with it. However this Waves situation is a whole new ball game. Totally agree with you. They must have some pretty big balls to do this if they think its gonna work.
I was just looking at some Waves plug-ins for the first time in many years. And just when I was going to get a few they announced the subscription model. i don't need hundreds of Waves plug-ins for a few hundred per year. I only need a few things. So now I'm not getting them. I'll pay upgrade fees for compatibility with new systems or processors, if I still use them.
Hear hear. I hate subscription models for things that I don’t need or want future updates for. I want to be able to buy something once and own it as-is forever. And if I want to upgrade in the future, I can choose to do that
Waves may have had challenge/response authorization back in the day, but what I recall is the Waves ADB dongle for copy protection -- yes, still have a couple of them in a drawer in my studio.
Wow, this is bringing up old memories. Yes, initially there was an ADB dongle in the box. Probably PACE. I should have kept that original box, manual, dongle, and floppies. I could have taken it to the Pawn Stars show in Vegas and demanded top dollar. $50,000, and NOT A PENNY less!!! ;)
Fully agree. I wonder how Cockos is faring with their approach. That was one of the reasons why I initially looked into Reaper: One of the few DAWs without DRM bullshit. I've never payed for a license so happily as I did for my Reaper license - because they respected me with how the license checks work. Any kind of subscription model for services like this is an immediate dealbreaker for me. I've payed for a Waves Diamond pack a few years ago on sale - but honestly, I don't use it, because Waves' DRM system is so incredibly annoying that I just refuse to deal with it. Similar bullshit with Audinate's DVS: The license you "bought" can only be activated 3 times. After that, it's dead in the water. I often switch between different machines for live recording stuff. I use DVS only for live recording. Ergo, I would probably have to rebuy licenses again and again because of that nonsense. Hence, I just request a new trial license every few weeks, and don't activate my properly paid one anymore. F' em.
Lots of reasonable stuff in that Neil :). I personally only have one sub for music stuff, Izotope. I have that because their model was always flawed and expensive!. Because I don't need the very high end audio repair stuff, I get all I want for less than what the upgrades were costing. With waves I was paying WUP when all my plugins needed upgrading on new versions. I am going to sit out the initial SH&T storm and see what happens, for now I am up to 14 on all my Waves plugins and I'm fine :).
I think another issue here that few have touched on here is the consumer and reputational power - and misuse of this power - of legacy. Waves, Protools, Universal Audio and Native Instruments are some of the bigger names that come to mind here that have been around since the dawn of digital audio, have been used on tons of hits records and now... have dozens/hundreds of competitors that are just as good if not better. I'd argue that if Dave Pensado (ie) had only Ableton Live, Fabfilter, Analog Obsession (free!) etc to work with back in the day his stuff would have sounded just as fire as with the standard classic Protool-Waves-UAD etc etc setup. These old companies can only go so far on reputation and celebrity endorsements. I myself have sold off all my Waves bundles and UA cards a long time ago - as well as discovering far better synths and sound manglers than Native Instruments offer - and have never looked back.
They have to update their frameworks anyways to sell to new users. Companies that charge for updates (that doesn't add any features) are just making the current users pay to have more profit from the new sales.
even if you buy a physical synth our a guitar you can't expect to work forever without maintnece. but there's difference between miantance and subscription.
Think about archiving your work. Unless you keep paying for the subscription, the plug in will stop working. With ownership, it will work as long as your system is compatible.
@@NeilParfittMusic Truth... Because of this and my refusal to let waves become a landlord over my creative process (even Pro Tools will continue to work if i stop paying yearly updates) I just yesterday started a project to re-archive 100 film scores and 14 albums worth of music with all the audio that uses all plug ins printed and saved as a new session. A few bits a week, should be finished by the end of the summer...lol
Glad that work is keeping you busy, even if it means fewer videos. For professionals, like you, what happens to your back catalog as plugins are updated/changed or if you want to cancel your subscription or Waves goes under? For most amateur musicians, like me, $250/year is an outrageous ask. Some of us do it entirely as a hobby and make no money from it. Others of us just gig occasionally for fun and make chump change (assuming any money is even left over after gas and those bar beers that you assumed you'd get for free because you were the band that night but the venue never agreed to that! lol ).
That's the core issue with not having a physical . permanent authorization system that doesn't have to call home right? 250/yer is still pretty reasonable for the shear volume of tools. But they'd be better of offering a core set of freebies - like the plugins they've been capitalizing off of for 20+ years... ultramaximixer, Q eq's etc. But, it's probably the cash injeciton of the zillions of hobbyists that keep these companies afloat vs. the 10k's or so of professional userbase. I dont have those statistics though so im just guessing..
@@NeilParfittMusic Hopefully you're right about the non-pro musicians being a significant income. Because I think we have much more ability to vote with our wallets than you pros do (we're not as locked in for standardization and back-catalog reasons). Tweeting ire at companies is all fine and good, but they only reconsider decisions when their bottom line is at risk. When Photoshop went to a subscription-only model, I wholly switched to other programs for my photography and graphic art. All the same capabilities, but a little less convenient in ease-of-use and learning curve.
Considering that EastWest's ComposerCloud+ is only $199 a year, for a massive collection of content, I think $250 a year for Waves really IS out of line. Sure, it's a big list of plug-ins, but how many of them will a given user actually use? Maybe if you're just starting out and have nothing else besides the plug-ins that come with your DAW (which might acually be a pretty good collection, depending on your DAW), you might use a lot of the Waves plug-ins. But, if you have lots of other stuff, probably not.
@@NeilParfittMusic As a fresh dealer of Waves, I ordered my first Waves plug-in in January 1996, it was the Q10, their first one. We emailed a lot with Israel and Knoxville via CompuServe in the developing phase of many more plug-ins. A Great time. A great company to work with. In 27 years many things changed at and around Waves. From developing great tools, having a decent update scheme and pricing, to a fast consumer-style money hunger company, with all-time special deals and over the top promotion schemes, that doesn’t care about loyal customers. And totally not interesting for dealers anymore, due to only sales. But that is sector-wide and logical. Me and all (yes, ALL) of my customers (ranging from hobbyists to pro TV/movie score producers) are sick and tired of Waves’ practices. Why? For a long time they made great new stuff. But since many years, they’re just milking their old stuff by putting a new UI envelop around it. Or paying famous producers to lend their names to a product, with just some flashy, stylish, skeuomorphic user interface, with the same old DSP engine/algorithm inside. Or a combi of a few old plug-ins scrapped together and engulfed in a newly designed layout. Don’t get me wrong: some of their stuff is great. But the majority is a copy of their former stuff. So 220+ plug-ins, great, but how many are really unique? How many do you need? And what about customers, who just want to use a certain plug-in, cannot spent a lot of money, and don’t need all of them? They used to buy is for $ 29,95 or 35,00, cause at Waves there was always some kind of sale going on. But now a mandatory subscription. No choice! And their loyal customers? They (like many of my customers and me myself) bought bundles, costing 5K+. They upgraded their bundles in holiday season for discount prices. They bought separate plug-ins. They paid WUP every year to keep them working on their systems. And now? After WUP is expired, the value of their investments is zilch. No way they can resell their bundles. Investments gone when they stop their hobby or business. And how about the second authorizations when using WUP (for some this was a helpful bonus of the ridiculous WUP system): Once expired, they’re gone! Just want to go on with your perpetual licenses? You can, but no updates after WUP expires. Want to add just one new plug-in? You can only step into the description model. Said. Very said. As a side note: I really understand developers have to update software due to OS changes and other ‘under the hood’ changes. This costs serious amounts of money and time. We have to pay for that. Totally agree. WUP was a way of doing this, not a very friendly one, but hey, you needed updates. And now: subscription only. Subscription should be a choice, not mandatory, IMHO. Waves is not a pharmaceutical company with subscription drugs. I wish Waves good luck in managing their social media wake turbulence after this crazy decision. But I recon their arrogance is preventing them to change or even recognize it. Just one more company that is milking their customers and don’t give a damn about loyal customers (who are stilling willing to pay for updates). They just became just another app maker / developer, who still think they are the best and live in the past. Making waves that suddenly disappeared in the ocean of developers. Bye Bye. Neil, thanks for your helpful video and opinion.
I thought the Waves update plan was a fair deal. Since we are Windows users, we only have major OS updates once every 15 years, so old software can last a long time. My DAWs offer new features that make upgrades worthwhile, but Waves plugins can't really change... I love them just as they are - I don't want them to change. The only reason to upgrade is compatibility and bug fixes. Waves' only source of revenue from people like me is to offer new plugins. But I have enough plugins already. I think the subscription model is fine for professionals, but it's a really burden for hobbyists. At home, I'd like to use Lightroom and Photoshop, and I didn't mind paying for it. But I am not a professional photographer. I'm not willing to pay $10 a month for a product I only use a few times a year.
"if you can't afford 150 a year you're not running a good business." Most people do not run a business. And if you're running a business the 150 a year are on top of rent, bills, maintenance, taxes and all the other expenses that a business produce.
It seems, the money Waves has made from Mac Users, due to CPU changes, OSX updates , etc, Is now being passed onto windows users.... Afterall, if you go the sub route , as you can no longer buy individual Plug ins, you relinquish your perpetual licenses... I left Waves and found alternatives when they introduced WUP.. Be interesting to see how many leave because they are removing the WUP model.... This change is but an ambush.
Subscription models for this sort of thing are terrible. What if you don’t open a waves plugin for a month? Do they refund the months credit (lol, no).
Yeah, it's definitely the topic at hand right now... I am fortunate I guess in that I stopped using Waves back in 2002. What's scary to me is what BMW is doing with their cars, making you PAY to unlock a normal car feature on a subscription basis... "oh, you want the heater to work?" That'll be $14.95 a month please..." If Neve does that shit to my hardware to unlock the master faders on my 8816/8804... I will likely go to jail... I have bought and PAID for my hardware... now leave it alone! But I could see some of these manufactures going that route with future products... oh yeah, I finally dumped Adobe as well, and use Affinity software...for Photoshop and Illustrator type work... but you said it best near the end, consumers (not all) but many will look for other avenues... especially if we are more of a hobbyist, and not on a contracted show like you are... My last PT subscription was PT11, and I just couldn't justify the extortion anymore... again, if I had client work, I'd pass that expense off on my clients... but then they'd shop elsewhere as well... it's a brutal and vicious circle.
Waves did this to themselves. They could've done it right, by offering the subscription as an option. They, however, chose to do it wrong, by making the subscription mandatory. They gave no warning. They continued to sell plugins, bundles, update plans, etc., up to the day before they did this. It isn't the subscription that's the real problem. It's the shadiness.
@@NeilParfittMusic I get what you're saying, but this new subscription model is much better than WUP, in my opinion, unless "owning" your plugins is the most important thing to you. Otherwise, you get access to all of their plugins for a low monthly price. It will be great for almost every studio, as well as for those just starting out, who don't already loads of subscriptions to pay for already.
I'm not defending waves or any sub model tbh, but the way I see it , 68 cents a day, I mean, I spend more money on way more absolutely useless shit in my life every single fucking day, this seams like a no brainer. Yeah, it's not hardware, you don't own it but guess what? You don't really need it either so what is the actual point being made with all the hate-o-rade? Pirating it takes more effort than paying 68 cents per day to actually use this shit. Just my 2 cents (way cheaper than 68 cents per day hahaha). Great videos as always, keep em coming.
There are people that have already paid for the plugins they use, and are fine with it. Forcing your users to switch to sub (where your plugins go bye-bye) is a kick in the teeth.
@@jrhager84 Exactly. For the person subscribing to Waves who has never bought anything from Waves, it might seem like a good deal (although I'd say that here in 2023, an awful lot of Waves plug-ins are really long-in-tooth, and there's much better stuff out there).
"the companies wants the subs money to keep things afloat" ... well, using your own logic "if you're unable to keep thing afloat you're not running a good business" ... what if musicians start charging client monthly because "they have to keep things afloat" Imagineer that you call the director of your series and say "from the next month you have to pay me 29 buck each month to make music for you"
Normalize your audio Neil~ YT says your audio is -12.4dB. Pls pay your Waves overlords pls. But yeah it's the times isn't it? Everything is switching to a subscription model. I can't see Waves backtracking on this decision.. after all, subscription models have made a lot of other companies significantly more profitable and reduced piracy etc. It's a desirable bandwagon.. maybe they've assessed that the pro audio community has become sufficiently young on average to just go with it, and if they lose a few old timers, to heck with it.
Yep - i didn't use any plugins. Hehehe. It's the optics right? The Waves Update Plan was pretty much a subscription - and a yearly cash injection. This way just smells way worse.
@@NeilParfittMusic I've seen worse. One app I use keeps asking you to update, but AFTER you let it update, it tells you that your 1-year update eligibility expired and you need to pony up another $250. So to avoid paying again, you have to uninstall and reinstall an older version from their site and just ignore its update messages. It knows your account details, yet "somehow" doesn't tell you that updating means you'll have to pay again. Annoy the user into paying. We live in a world.
@@NeilParfittMusic Oh, also, there's a subreddit called "assholedesign" which you can go through in case you accidentally find yourself in a happy mood, but need to place yourself into a sombre, melancholy or misanthropic mood (for a job, of course).
*WAVES RESPONSE - DAY 2* Every TH-camr: Your next video should be, going through your plugin folder, finding What Waves plugins you still use, then finding Alternatives to share with your viewers. Many TH-camrs did this years ago (search Waves Alternatives), if Every One of you do it now, three things should happen: 1) your viewers that are unwilling or unable to go along with this change will get Useful Alternatives from your channel; 2) you'll be declaring who's side you're on, your viewers or your potential sponsors; 3) just maybe Waves will catch a clue, but even if not Every Other Developer behind them should take note, and we'll end up with two categories of developers to do business with. This is not just Waves new policy, it's called "Rentier Capitalism". Basically it's firms changing business models from: Selling you their products outright, to Collecting Rents for your use of their products. We pay Rent, they become "Digital Land-Lords". Some people are okay being renters rather than owners, but usually people are forced into renting by monopolistic practices and lack of alternatives. Here, we have PLENTY of alternatives to Waves Plugins. So please, All of You, show us what alternatives you can find?
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The mob reacted strong and they back-peddled!! Incredible!!
www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/waves-announce-reinstatement-of-perpetual-and-wup
HA! Didn't think they had the balls to carry it through. LMFAO!!!!!!🤣🤣 But thats a good thing! Thing is i reckon they've pissed enough people off to jump ship anyway.
...until next time! No one expects the Spanish Inquisition, eh, new bend over models!
It will be interesting to see how they handle the user who:
- Owns Waves plugins already
- Tries the subscription
- Then, cancels the subscription.
Will your perpetual licensed plugins continue to work?
@@emveeoh if it's anything like my added AVID subscription, nothing, the perpetual is still based on my iLok and totally independent..
Neil, so now that we can do the monthly subscription for all plug-ins, or perpetual license for each plug-in, what are your favorite Waves plug-ins? I'm not good with those timed or limited trials, but I might subscribe for a few months to try out some plug-ins before buying them
100% with you on this one! I absolutely hate subscription models. And it is for the following reasons:
- When do they increase the prices? subscriptions can be changed or canceled
- some software won't start if there's no internet, which is an absolute no-go for on location work
- I can much better time my expenses with single purchases
- i'd like to be able to archive my projects and be sure the software runs when needed in 20 years time. (provided the hardware still works)
I much prefer a fee for a version of the software with a few years of support and then an upgrade fee to the next version (or stay where you are at)
A vendor for PCB design software I use for electronics went from perpetual licensing to subscription a few years ago and people ditched the program at scale. Everyone is sick and tired of subscription models and folks are voting with their wallets. In my company we have a policy for non-subscription only with a few exceptions, and we do show quite a lot of sales reps the door.
I'll never use waves again. Music mixing and mastering, dialogue editor and film mixer here. Waves helped me when I was getting started, but now I'm moving on. I was putting off filling out my boutique plugin suites like fabfilter, so now I'll transition to using their plugins instead. Waves are now an afterthought.
I halfway agree with you. I am a professional graphic designer and I pay Adobe every month among other companies too, but I expense that as a part of my business. Music however, it's a hobby for me and I like having access to only the few plugins I purchased and I wouldn't mind paying to update them at some point. But not having a choice is what makes people feel betrayed.
Not everyone is running a business ... I am definitely not putting 15 or 25$ a month on plugins just from Waves ... if I was doing that for all the stuff I use for my music hobby ... it would be hundreds of dollars per month. Waves is dead to me.
Great story Neil!
‘You own nothing and will be happy.’
Great to see you, Neil and completely agree with your points.
I have 4 Mercury bundles for studio computers and 2 Mercury bundles for myself, and I've BEEN paying a subscription - the Waves update plan just to keep them all up to date hahahah. Unfortunately it's a staple of our industry so clients expect us to have it.
I am sure I am not the only one who knew that most software developers want to eventually want to go full subscription. This waves subscription is like a line in the sand. If we can make them feel the pain maybe we can stop other companies from going this far.
Check out the latest from softube on social media .. well played hehe
Neil, not everyone is running a business, some make music purely for the pleasure of it, like me who cut their teeth in this tech world starting with Pro 24 (yes that long ago), through cubase to logic and now Pro Tools. I was there when Avid started their subscription model and saw all the forums up in arms saying they were back off to Cubase, Logic or jumping to new DAWs like Lunar. I hate having to renew my perpetual licence with Pro Tools but, as I use it, I put up with it.
However this Waves situation is a whole new ball game. Totally agree with you. They must have some pretty big balls to do this if they think its gonna work.
Always a pleasure to see a new video!
good analysis and take with a good amount of nuance.
well said Neil
I was just looking at some Waves plug-ins for the first time in many years. And just when I was going to get a few they announced the subscription model. i don't need hundreds of Waves plug-ins for a few hundred per year. I only need a few things. So now I'm not getting them. I'll pay upgrade fees for compatibility with new systems or processors, if I still use them.
Hear hear. I hate subscription models for things that I don’t need or want future updates for. I want to be able to buy something once and own it as-is forever. And if I want to upgrade in the future, I can choose to do that
Waves may have had challenge/response authorization back in the day, but what I recall is the Waves ADB dongle for copy protection -- yes, still have a couple of them in a drawer in my studio.
Was it early PACE? I seem to recall plugging in a string of random words… COW NOON FORK WAFFLE and then getting a string back haha
Wow, this is bringing up old memories. Yes, initially there was an ADB dongle in the box. Probably PACE. I should have kept that original box, manual, dongle, and floppies. I could have taken it to the Pawn Stars show in Vegas and demanded top dollar. $50,000, and NOT A PENNY less!!! ;)
$1500000 on reverb. VINTAGE.
Love your take on this!
Fully agree. I wonder how Cockos is faring with their approach. That was one of the reasons why I initially looked into Reaper: One of the few DAWs without DRM bullshit. I've never payed for a license so happily as I did for my Reaper license - because they respected me with how the license checks work.
Any kind of subscription model for services like this is an immediate dealbreaker for me. I've payed for a Waves Diamond pack a few years ago on sale - but honestly, I don't use it, because Waves' DRM system is so incredibly annoying that I just refuse to deal with it.
Similar bullshit with Audinate's DVS: The license you "bought" can only be activated 3 times. After that, it's dead in the water. I often switch between different machines for live recording stuff. I use DVS only for live recording. Ergo, I would probably have to rebuy licenses again and again because of that nonsense. Hence, I just request a new trial license every few weeks, and don't activate my properly paid one anymore. F' em.
Just saying waves gold is like a nostalgia KO
He is back! 😃
Our voices have been heard:
Just in: an email from Waves CTO:
Perpetual licenses and updates will be back alongside subscriptions.
Lots of reasonable stuff in that Neil :). I personally only have one sub for music stuff, Izotope. I have that because their model was always flawed and expensive!. Because I don't need the very high end audio repair stuff, I get all I want for less than what the upgrades were costing. With waves I was paying WUP when all my plugins needed upgrading on new versions. I am going to sit out the initial SH&T storm and see what happens, for now I am up to 14 on all my Waves plugins and I'm fine :).
I think another issue here that few have touched on here is the consumer and reputational power - and misuse of this power - of legacy. Waves, Protools, Universal Audio and Native Instruments are some of the bigger names that come to mind here that have been around since the dawn of digital audio, have been used on tons of hits records and now... have dozens/hundreds of competitors that are just as good if not better.
I'd argue that if Dave Pensado (ie) had only Ableton Live, Fabfilter, Analog Obsession (free!) etc to work with back in the day his stuff would have sounded just as fire as with the standard classic Protool-Waves-UAD etc etc setup. These old companies can only go so far on reputation and celebrity endorsements. I myself have sold off all my Waves bundles and UA cards a long time ago - as well as discovering far better synths and sound manglers than Native Instruments offer - and have never looked back.
The entire world is talking about this 😂 Screw them, there’s plenty of alternatives.
it hard to do stuff as a hobby
They have to update their frameworks anyways to sell to new users. Companies that charge for updates (that doesn't add any features) are just making the current users pay to have more profit from the new sales.
The only thing that scares me is if they do what adobe did and raise the price to the point where it is not viable for independent creators
I don’t think they can, as hobbyists far outweigh the professionals in sheer volume of users
Ah yes, the old challenge and response authorization…
even if you buy a physical synth our a guitar you can't expect to work forever without maintnece. but there's difference between miantance and subscription.
And that’s it right here
Think about archiving your work. Unless you keep paying for the subscription, the plug in will stop working. With ownership, it will work as long as your system is compatible.
i know people who have computer 'libaries' in their storage. Every computer the studio ever used goign all the way back to TDM and SCSI drives. Ewe.
@@NeilParfittMusic Truth... Because of this and my refusal to let waves become a landlord over my creative process (even Pro Tools will continue to work if i stop paying yearly updates) I just yesterday started a project to re-archive 100 film scores and 14 albums worth of music with all the audio that uses all plug ins printed and saved as a new session. A few bits a week, should be finished by the end of the summer...lol
Glad that work is keeping you busy, even if it means fewer videos.
For professionals, like you, what happens to your back catalog as plugins are updated/changed or if you want to cancel your subscription or Waves goes under?
For most amateur musicians, like me, $250/year is an outrageous ask. Some of us do it entirely as a hobby and make no money from it. Others of us just gig occasionally for fun and make chump change (assuming any money is even left over after gas and those bar beers that you assumed you'd get for free because you were the band that night but the venue never agreed to that! lol ).
That's the core issue with not having a physical . permanent authorization system that doesn't have to call home right?
250/yer is still pretty reasonable for the shear volume of tools. But they'd be better of offering a core set of freebies - like the plugins they've been capitalizing off of for 20+ years... ultramaximixer, Q eq's etc. But, it's probably the cash injeciton of the zillions of hobbyists that keep these companies afloat vs. the 10k's or so of professional userbase. I dont have those statistics though so im just guessing..
@@NeilParfittMusic Hopefully you're right about the non-pro musicians being a significant income. Because I think we have much more ability to vote with our wallets than you pros do (we're not as locked in for standardization and back-catalog reasons). Tweeting ire at companies is all fine and good, but they only reconsider decisions when their bottom line is at risk.
When Photoshop went to a subscription-only model, I wholly switched to other programs for my photography and graphic art. All the same capabilities, but a little less convenient in ease-of-use and learning curve.
Considering that EastWest's ComposerCloud+ is only $199 a year, for a massive collection of content, I think $250 a year for Waves really IS out of line. Sure, it's a big list of plug-ins, but how many of them will a given user actually use? Maybe if you're just starting out and have nothing else besides the plug-ins that come with your DAW (which might acually be a pretty good collection, depending on your DAW), you might use a lot of the Waves plug-ins. But, if you have lots of other stuff, probably not.
@@NeilParfittMusic As a fresh dealer of Waves, I ordered my first Waves plug-in in January 1996, it was the Q10, their first one. We emailed a lot with Israel and Knoxville via CompuServe in the developing phase of many more plug-ins. A Great time. A great company to work with.
In 27 years many things changed at and around Waves.
From developing great tools, having a decent update scheme and pricing, to a fast consumer-style money hunger company, with all-time special deals and over the top promotion schemes, that doesn’t care about loyal customers. And totally not interesting for dealers anymore, due to only sales. But that is sector-wide and logical.
Me and all (yes, ALL) of my customers (ranging from hobbyists to pro TV/movie score producers) are sick and tired of Waves’ practices.
Why?
For a long time they made great new stuff. But since many years, they’re just milking their old stuff by putting a new UI envelop around it. Or paying famous producers to lend their names to a product, with just some flashy, stylish, skeuomorphic user interface, with the same old DSP engine/algorithm inside. Or a combi of a few old plug-ins scrapped together and engulfed in a newly designed layout.
Don’t get me wrong: some of their stuff is great.
But the majority is a copy of their former stuff.
So 220+ plug-ins, great, but how many are really unique?
How many do you need?
And what about customers, who just want to use a certain plug-in, cannot spent a lot of money, and don’t need all of them?
They used to buy is for $ 29,95 or 35,00, cause at Waves there was always some kind of sale going on.
But now a mandatory subscription. No choice!
And their loyal customers?
They (like many of my customers and me myself) bought bundles, costing 5K+.
They upgraded their bundles in holiday season for discount prices.
They bought separate plug-ins.
They paid WUP every year to keep them working on their systems.
And now?
After WUP is expired, the value of their investments is zilch.
No way they can resell their bundles. Investments gone when they stop their hobby or business.
And how about the second authorizations when using WUP (for some this was a helpful bonus of the ridiculous WUP system):
Once expired, they’re gone!
Just want to go on with your perpetual licenses? You can, but no updates after WUP expires.
Want to add just one new plug-in? You can only step into the description model. Said. Very said.
As a side note: I really understand developers have to update software due to OS changes and other ‘under the hood’ changes.
This costs serious amounts of money and time.
We have to pay for that. Totally agree. WUP was a way of doing this, not a very friendly one, but hey, you needed updates.
And now: subscription only.
Subscription should be a choice, not mandatory, IMHO. Waves is not a pharmaceutical company with subscription drugs.
I wish Waves good luck in managing their social media wake turbulence after this crazy decision.
But I recon their arrogance is preventing them to change or even recognize it.
Just one more company that is milking their customers and don’t give a damn about loyal customers (who are stilling willing to pay for updates).
They just became just another app maker / developer, who still think they are the best and live in the past.
Making waves that suddenly disappeared in the ocean of developers. Bye Bye.
Neil, thanks for your helpful video and opinion.
The title 💀
I thought the Waves update plan was a fair deal. Since we are Windows users, we only have major OS updates once every 15 years, so old software can last a long time. My DAWs offer new features that make upgrades worthwhile, but Waves plugins can't really change... I love them just as they are - I don't want them to change. The only reason to upgrade is compatibility and bug fixes.
Waves' only source of revenue from people like me is to offer new plugins. But I have enough plugins already.
I think the subscription model is fine for professionals, but it's a really burden for hobbyists. At home, I'd like to use Lightroom and Photoshop, and I didn't mind paying for it. But I am not a professional photographer. I'm not willing to pay $10 a month for a product I only use a few times a year.
"if you can't afford 150 a year you're not running a good business." Most people do not run a business. And if you're running a business the 150 a year are on top of rent, bills, maintenance, taxes and all the other expenses that a business produce.
It seems, the money Waves has made from Mac Users, due to CPU changes, OSX updates , etc, Is now being passed onto windows users....
Afterall, if you go the sub route , as you can no longer buy individual Plug ins, you relinquish your perpetual licenses...
I left Waves and found alternatives when they introduced WUP.. Be interesting to see how many leave because they are removing the WUP model....
This change is but an ambush.
Subscription models for this sort of thing are terrible. What if you don’t open a waves plugin for a month? Do they refund the months credit (lol, no).
reject modernity, embrace stock plugins
Stock plugins are *really good*. Logic’s as an example, are a fantastic set.
For a second I could imagine Trump giving an executive order to ban all software licensing to Neil 😂
That would be some solid street cred hahahah😊
Yeah, it's definitely the topic at hand right now... I am fortunate I guess in that I stopped using Waves back in 2002. What's scary to me is what BMW is doing with their cars, making you PAY to unlock a normal car feature on a subscription basis... "oh, you want the heater to work?" That'll be $14.95 a month please..." If Neve does that shit to my hardware to unlock the master faders on my 8816/8804... I will likely go to jail... I have bought and PAID for my hardware... now leave it alone! But I could see some of these manufactures going that route with future products... oh yeah, I finally dumped Adobe as well, and use Affinity software...for Photoshop and Illustrator type work... but you said it best near the end, consumers (not all) but many will look for other avenues... especially if we are more of a hobbyist, and not on a contracted show like you are... My last PT subscription was PT11, and I just couldn't justify the extortion anymore... again, if I had client work, I'd pass that expense off on my clients... but then they'd shop elsewhere as well... it's a brutal and vicious circle.
Waves did this to themselves. They could've done it right, by offering the subscription as an option. They, however, chose to do it wrong, by making the subscription mandatory. They gave no warning. They continued to sell plugins, bundles, update plans, etc., up to the day before they did this. It isn't the subscription that's the real problem. It's the shadiness.
They did though (in a way) - it was the ever so subtle WUP.
@@NeilParfittMusic I get what you're saying, but this new subscription model is much better than WUP, in my opinion, unless "owning" your plugins is the most important thing to you. Otherwise, you get access to all of their plugins for a low monthly price. It will be great for almost every studio, as well as for those just starting out, who don't already loads of subscriptions to pay for already.
Not everyone’s running a business! In fact, I’ll bet the majority of Waves users aren’t running a business!
I’m sure the user base of most audio software devs are hobbyists - as there’s just a staggering amount of people out of there.
Mic sounds like it was recorded by a McDonalds professional
perfect.
I'm not defending waves or any sub model tbh, but the way I see it , 68 cents a day, I mean, I spend more money on way more absolutely useless shit in my life every single fucking day, this seams like a no brainer. Yeah, it's not hardware, you don't own it but guess what? You don't really need it either so what is the actual point being made with all the hate-o-rade? Pirating it takes more effort than paying 68 cents per day to actually use this shit. Just my 2 cents (way cheaper than 68 cents per day hahaha). Great videos as always, keep em coming.
There are people that have already paid for the plugins they use, and are fine with it. Forcing your users to switch to sub (where your plugins go bye-bye) is a kick in the teeth.
@@jrhager84 Exactly. For the person subscribing to Waves who has never bought anything from Waves, it might seem like a good deal (although I'd say that here in 2023, an awful lot of Waves plug-ins are really long-in-tooth, and there's much better stuff out there).
Waves just made me stop using their plugins. I don't want to put my work and creativity behind an expensive paywall that is out of my control...
"the companies wants the subs money to keep things afloat" ... well, using your own logic "if you're unable to keep thing afloat you're not running a good business" ... what if musicians start charging client monthly because "they have to keep things afloat" Imagineer that you call the director of your series and say "from the next month you have to pay me 29 buck each month to make music for you"
Normalize your audio Neil~ YT says your audio is -12.4dB. Pls pay your Waves overlords pls. But yeah it's the times isn't it? Everything is switching to a subscription model. I can't see Waves backtracking on this decision.. after all, subscription models have made a lot of other companies significantly more profitable and reduced piracy etc. It's a desirable bandwagon.. maybe they've assessed that the pro audio community has become sufficiently young on average to just go with it, and if they lose a few old timers, to heck with it.
Yep - i didn't use any plugins. Hehehe.
It's the optics right? The Waves Update Plan was pretty much a subscription - and a yearly cash injection. This way just smells way worse.
@@NeilParfittMusic I've seen worse. One app I use keeps asking you to update, but AFTER you let it update, it tells you that your 1-year update eligibility expired and you need to pony up another $250. So to avoid paying again, you have to uninstall and reinstall an older version from their site and just ignore its update messages. It knows your account details, yet "somehow" doesn't tell you that updating means you'll have to pay again. Annoy the user into paying. We live in a world.
@@NeilParfittMusic Oh, also, there's a subreddit called "assholedesign" which you can go through in case you accidentally find yourself in a happy mood, but need to place yourself into a sombre, melancholy or misanthropic mood (for a job, of course).
*WAVES RESPONSE - DAY 2*
Every TH-camr: Your next video should be, going through your plugin folder, finding What Waves plugins you still use, then finding Alternatives to share with your viewers.
Many TH-camrs did this years ago (search Waves Alternatives), if Every One of you do it now, three things should happen:
1) your viewers that are unwilling or unable to go along with this change will get Useful Alternatives from your channel;
2) you'll be declaring who's side you're on, your viewers or your potential sponsors;
3) just maybe Waves will catch a clue, but even if not Every Other Developer behind them should take note, and we'll end up with two categories of developers to do business with.
This is not just Waves new policy, it's called "Rentier Capitalism".
Basically it's firms changing business models from: Selling you their products outright, to Collecting Rents for your use of their products.
We pay Rent, they become "Digital Land-Lords".
Some people are okay being renters rather than owners, but usually people are forced into renting by monopolistic practices and lack of alternatives.
Here, we have PLENTY of alternatives to Waves Plugins.
So please, All of You, show us what alternatives you can find?