You basically are trying to seat both sides of the tyre at the same time, which is why you need so much air to do that as loads will escape before it seats. If you put an inner tube in there first and inflate it, before you put any sealant or tubeless valve. This will get the tyre seated without the need for a special pump or compressor. Then open one side of the tyre, remove the inner tube and fit the Tubeless Valve. Then you will have one side already fully seated. It is then much easier to seat the remaining side as not as much air will escape so you won't really need the big blast of air. I normally do a dry run to make sure the tyre plays ball before I put in the sealant. Then I open a small section with a tyre lever and just pour in the sealant but you can of course insert it through the valve, like you did, after the tyre is fully seated. Using the Washing up liquid on the bead is a good idea also. Make sure you clean the inside of any new tyres before fitting with something like IPA as there can be mould release on there than can prevent the sealant doing it's job. I have a compressor but doing this method. I wouldn't need to use it on anything but the most stubborn tyres. and can normally get most combinations seated without any issue.
Don’t worry about trying to get the bead to seat. Let it be in the middle when you inflate it. Pull the valve core to allow a higher volume of air when you initially seat it. You can always seat the tire with a tube let it sit or ride it for a couple of days and then break the bead on one side also is a technique I have found helpful for new tires especially hand built ones. Lastly you can use a come along strap a red the circumference to help push the side walls out. Never had to use them on gravel tires, only on fat bike tires, but it could help if your tires are too big for your rim. Lastly, you can lay your wheel level on its side. I set it on a round open trash can (you call them bins) for an hour and then flip to the other side to get a good coat of sealant on the side walls. I have had good success with tires like Rene Herse that have extremely thin porous sidewalls.
Simon so I had some issues getting a set of factory supplied SCHWABLE G-One all round tyres to re-seal after I let the them down to refill with more sealant. I went back to the shop where I bought the bike and they couldn’t re-seal the tyres either. Both of us were using a compressor. The shop agreed to swap these tyres claiming faulty. So great for me. The main reason for going tubeless in my opinion is to allow for lower pressures for off road use and better grip. Yes unless you are brave and don’t mind walking home you carry one, possibly two tubes depending on days / distance. I ride off road as much as possible, gravel is bumpy, single track is slippy both need as much grip as possible. My hunt 650b’s have much more volume to run at lower pressures where tubes would not work well. There are many solutions to protect against punctures running tubeless is one of them and the best in my opinion. Once you get familiar with the method the only time you fit a tube is when you are stuck out on a trail with no chance of repairing a big leak / tyre burp where you can’t get enough air back in the tyre. My experience is with both gravel and MTB tyres. MTB seems to be easier due the the bulkier nature of both the wheel rims and tyres.
I made a makeshift "compressor" from an unused 5L pressure sprayer I had lying around and it worked great. It took me a good while to give tubeless a go on my gravel bike and have never looked back since. Thanks for showing it like it is though. It is not always moonshine and roses when it comes to bicycle maintenance.
Great video, tubeless can sometimes be frustrating but once you have cracked it you never go back. Having used tubeless for years on my enduro mountain bike I recently got a Whyte Friston gravel bike and although I set it up tubeless I wasn’t happy with the performance because at low pressures I was worried about rim damage. I decided to try some Vittoria gravel inserts, what a difference! I can run low pressures (30psi rear 25 front on 45c tyres with no risk of damage) the other revelation was how they hold the bead in place. It is now possible to inflate and seat the tyre using a high volume mini pump, great for trail side repairs if needed. In a way it’s adding more tech to the solution, but for me it has made tubeless even better.
Not sure if anyone has said this but the vittorio airliners have brought me what I was looking for from tubeless. Easy to set up (the liner holds the bead in place), no burping, no rim dings. Very very worth it. I use a homemade inflator using a large coke bottle, plenty of articles online. You can also use a kayak strap placed around the tyre and cinched down tight to help the bead grab. The sealant does work well, but with the higher pressure I’ve had to use plugs many times for quite small holes compared to MTB tubeless wheels. Plugs are another art form in their own right… But all in all I’ve been tubeless on my main bike (gravel) for 3 years now and only had to resort to a tube once when I got a massive side wall slash. So for me, they are worth the effort.
Nice to see a video from somebody who hates something but is willing to give it a go. I look forward to your update, Simon. Gravel and off-road group chats seem to be constantly banging on about tyres and especially tubeless. The replies seem to be 50-50 between those who can't stand the messy faff and have given up, or those who think they are wonderful, for the reasons you stated. I'm getting my first ever new bike, hand-built, and will be gaining lots of different technology - through axles, internal hub (Rohloff), disc brakes, ... and tubeless tyres. The guy who's building the bike gave me a quick demo of how he can seat a tubeless tyre with a floor pump, he also pulled a thorn from his tyre and it sealed instantly, and that plus a few other things he said and showed me, has persuaded me to give them a go - despite the fact I haven't had any p*nct*r*s in years with clinchers ... wondering if I am tempting fate. [I didn't want to jinx myself by spelling out the "p-word" in full!]
Fitted tubeless on two sets of rims now. One tyre was a right swine, but finally got it to seat. These were old tyres so had leaky sidewalls until I put more sealant in and gave it a good shake. Second set on some dtswiss rims, absolutely no hassle whatsoever and managed with a normal track pump with no compressor. Did the valve, pushed it through, tightened, chucked tyre onto rim, soapy water combo, inflated so it sat on the rim, took valve core out (careful not to unseat the tyre), added sealant, valve core back in, inflated, shake shake shake and spin. Jobs a good one. Never had any issues since on either set. Yes you may get some loss of pressure after a while, but always check pre ride anyway.
I think it's like any new technology- as a people we're stubborn and set in our ways and are emotionally and financially involved in our 'old' ways. Worse again as cyclists were pedantically tribal and think that our wayis the best and this news fangled stuff is for others like MTBers or gravel riders or sometime else. Well done for sticking with it and getting it working and hope you finally see the light.
I recently went Tubeless on my Gravel, used the soapy liquid and just a track pump. I used Schwalbe One All-round tyres and they were easy to fit. I blew up the tyres and left them overnight, I did this a couple of times to make sure they formed nicely to the rims. Only then did I add the sealant, no issues at all, and they ride well. I then ordered new Tubeless wheels and tyres for my road bike, wheels were Mavic rear and Easton front, and both are UST, so no sealing or rim tape required, there are no holes for spokes etc, worth thinking about for new wheel purchases.. I fitted Scwalbe one tyres, and the process took around 15 mins, with a track pump and soapy liquid, no issues and they ride excellent, 3 weeks and no loss of pressure. I probably won't go back to tubes, but will carry one with me in case of a blow out.
I've run tubeless on my mountain bike for nearly ten years. Would never go back to tubes. This is not gravel specific, but 1. If tyre is new and proving tricky, use an innertube, inflate the tyre and leave inflated for 24 hours before trying to seat tubeless. 2. If a track pump isn't working, use a CO2 cannister (or a compressor if you have one handy). I read somewhere that CO2 is supposed to react with the sealant, so after getting everything seated, leave for a little while, deflate and re-inflate with a track pump a couple of times. Usually once it's seated once, it's pretty easy to re-inflate. 3. Use a higher pressure than you plan to ride on when initially seating the tyre. You want it to pop and seat evenly all around the rim. I might inflate a mountain bike tyre to 50 or 60psi, even if I plan to ride at 25 psi later. You certainly don't need to try to manually get it to hook into the rim !!! 4. When you add the sealant, don't just spin the wheel. Hold it on its side, shake, rotate a bit, shake and go all round the tyre then do the same on the other side. Yes. It's all a bit of a faff, but absolutely worth it. 5. Washing up liquid probably helps but I've never used it.
I've similarly tried to go tubeless with (I think I spotted the same in your video) my WTB Riddlers - got the Airshot Tubeless Tyre Inflator too and I don't know how many times (and hours) I've battled and given up at this point! You're making me consider trying again...
I have been tubeless since they were available. I also use the Bontreger Charge pump to set up my tires. I will never go back to tubes and have used CushCore gravel inserts on tires that are not sealing on my gravel wheel and tire combos.
Great summary of the trials and frustration of tubeless. I think your comments are spot on. Some combinations work well first time…Others don’t. With max charge pressure either from a compressor or charge pump most will work. Let’s face it however not all of us have this. Crying out for a compatibility review of works.well for normal folk….keep up the good work..
Thanks Ian. Two years ago my Camino came with Tubeless Ready (but with tubes) Love Mud Rims and I struggled like anything to get the WTB tyre beads out of grove - took ages and hurt my thumbs. Now I can see the value of such a combination. You're right though - we need a chart of what tyres work best with which rims!
Simon. Hi from Ballarat, Victoria, Love your work. Only been watching for a few months so missed the release of this episode. Would be pleased to hear the review after use. I agree your tips and would add another one or more ... Use a co2 bottle to ‘bang’ the beads into the rim. 2. Use plenty of sealant. I have learnt 200+mL in 45mm gravel tyres is almost bombproof. 3. Carry plugs and know how to use them. 4. 25g co2 bottles with an inflator with tap (so not the springy type) FAR better than multiple 16g bottles.
Been researching this for my road with 26 or 28c. I decided to go with light inner butyl tubes and tires. Total weight was lighter than tubeless at 330 g per set up. The issue I found in much of the research is the need to clean the previous sealant before resetting a tubeless and I am not going to benefit from much lower pressure. I will leave them at about 80 psi. I will stick with tubes and tires because I literally did it all with hand and a pump. No tools or hassle.
I've been riding tubeless since late 2019, and having benefited from its advantages, I like it. I agree that it is a b*tch to seat. Especially when trying out new tyres. I've since found an ideal pair, and I think I'll keep to those for now. A few things I've learned through setting up tubeless myself: 1) dishwashing soap helps 2) using door hinges can help 3) a smidge of petroleum jelly on the tyre bead can help 4) beer also works (ply your local bike shop dudes with it, and you *might* help yourself with their compressor - obviously your results may vary)
I found that with difficult tire/rim combinations, set them up with a tube installed overnight and the tire will get seating memory for the rim, sort of like new shoes.
Ok... My 2 pence worth after being tubeless for over 3 years and changing winter/summer tyres every 6 months... Add another run of rim tape, use soapy water around the rim and the tyre bead, use an airshot or compression pump (like you have). Inflate the tyre to max pressure once the tyre is on with sealant in and bump it around on the ground to make sure the whole bead is seated. Spin the tyre on its sides to disperse the sealant then put it on the bike and give 8t a good spin, deflate to the correct pressure and go for a quick spin. Job done... Its very easy once you've done it a few times. Another tip... Don't use WTB's, they notoriously leak through the side walls and in my experience puncture easily. The cinturattos you have are excellent 👍
I share your frustrations! First attempt at tubeless was mixed and even the one done by a bike shop failed after a few months. After several punctures in short succession i decided I needed new tyres and it was time to have another go at tubeless. I'm lucky in that I now have a compressor but boy oh boy, it's scary stuff. Don't stop at the first pop is my advice but be careful you don't go mad either. I've come to realise you have to inflate your tyres more often, maybe even weekly and more so if you don't ride your bike that often, but I'd argue it's still better than a remote puncture on a wet day (they usually happen then) and leaving you wondering if you're going to get home now you've used your only spare inner. My advice is get everything scrupulously clean before hand, don't bother trying it with older/part worn tyres and you really do need a lot of air to get that bead seated so CO2 cartridges are not really a sensible option.
I'm still not sold on tubeless still use inner tubes. But my hunch is for tubeless to be very successful the wheel rim has to be optimum width for the tyres chosen to ensure a good quality tubeless tyre. For me that involves buying brand new mtb wheels and tyres which I think is where people have issues trying to convert old wheel tyre setups , just a hunch :)
Still getting to grips with tubeless tyres; refitting seems to be a bit hit-or-miss still. Originally ran Giant Crosscuts, the standard tyre supplied with my Giant Revolt. I managed to change out the sealant after 6 months use without problems. The tyres however were pretty useless in mud, or when attempting any type of climb with a loose surface. I opted for some Pirelli Cinturato (Gravel) tyres, which have been much much better for all-round grip, but a nightmare get fully beaded without leaks. Actually suffered the ignominy of a 10k walk home after losing all air through my bubbling rims, and using up 2 spare air cylinders to re-inflate. After more practice, and a dab of washing up liquid, finally managed to get both tyres to give out those 2 or 3 satisfying little pops, that tell you you've done the job. One good tip, is when you are pouring the sealant in at first, to just loosen the little nut that holds the valve into the wheel rim, so that some of the fluid can get in and around it and seal it effectively. Then tighten it up again once you've twirled and spun the wheel to distribute the fluid. Great channel, lovely videos, thanks for all the knowledge and experience you are sharing !
Very similar story to my experience. I tried 4 times over the last 2 years to get the tyres to seat on the rim and gave up every time. After trawling endless forums I came across the Fairy Liquid tip but to use a lot of it, not a little and mix it with hot water. Soak a cloth or old rag into this mix and then coat the tyre rims, don't be shy with it and then recoat them for good measure. I think my face was more shocked than yours when the tyres seated within seconds of this method and I'm a big fan now. Running tubeless on my gravel bike and mountain bike now and won't go back.
C02 blast works as a last measure over your blaster. Also, using a tube to seat the tire traditionally, and then carefully extract it via one side, followed by a blast by your pump. This method saved me in the past. (Half the tire is properly mounted so your odds are improved ;-)
I've been tubeless on four of my five bikes for about 7yrs now (the road bike is still tubed). It can be very frustrating but you are really trading faff at home for potential faff out on the trail. I've had one wheel set up first time and stay up overnight without sealant but the second wheel refused to even seat - the same tyre and rim combo. Generally the bigger volume and lower pressure the tyre then the better tubeless works - it's ace on the fat bike😁Out on the trail I've had maybe half a dozen situations where the system has failed, that's in around 50,000km of riding, so it's not perfect but then nothing is. The initial inflating and seating problem is down to the well in the wheel rim being a much smaller circumference than the tyre bead so the air just escapes, adding an extra wrap or two of tape helps fill it in so that the tyre bead is at least making some contact when you try to inflate. Tips: Once you've set the tyres up - go for a ride - the micro-flexing of the tyre helps get everything worked into where it should be. If, when out on the trail, you have to put in an innertube then run round the inside of the tyre with tissue paper to find any thorns otherwise you'll be spending time fixing loads of punctures in the innertube! You can use CO2 canisters to inflate tubeless out on the trail but you need to avoid "cold shock" of the sealant so turn the wheel so that the valve is near the 12 o'clock position and leave for a minute or two to let the sealant drip down to the bottom then apply the CO2.
Fortunate to say I never had your issues. I tried tubeless on my road bike and it worked at first try but I honestly could not tell a difference from a butyl inner tube while riding. Maybe that is because I always ride with enough pressure (80-90 psi road, 35-50 psi offroad) which tends to eliminate pinch flats entirely. In short: with the additional cost of special rim tape and sealant and the little gain (if any) from puncture resistance, I am struggling to find a business case for tubeless. …maybe if I forgot to pump my tires and rode with 20-30 psi that would be different 😏
You've had lots of good comments and advice to this video and using tubeless. I would reiterate that a tubeless pump or separate air reservoir is critical. And you might not be using enough sealant. Be generous! I use 150-250 ml depending on tire size - I have tubeless on several bikes, from 25c road tires to 2.3" MTB, and 45c gravel bike as well. I will never willingly go back to tubes any more than I would run tubes in my car tires. Yeah it's a bit of a faff at times, but so worth it for the lower air pressure, fewer flats, and better performance especially cornering.
I also add my fluid before filling with air which helps seal the edges. Seriously it’s not difficult. I have 5 sets of tubeless wheels, never worked in the trade and practise makes perfect. Hardest tyres to bead were Conti GP5000 TL.
The game changer for me was putting a dab of silicone grease around the valve hole and on the bottom of the tubeless valve before inserting it, as the valve was a site of leakage on my first install.
Tubeless all the way. Never go back to inner tubes. Road and off-road. Yep it’s all going to be clean and a strong blast to sit him on the rims. I would probably use a bit more sealant to start with. have a decent sealant injector. Keep rolling, love your videos.
Realize this video is from a while back, but there is a tire seating lubricant and seal sold by both some of the bike parts companies (expensive) and by auto parts stores (cheap). This tire seat lubricant and seal has made an amazing difference for me when I install tubeless tires.
I always use a pump with a compression cylinder for the initial set up after that the tyre always sits correctly .I only spin the wheel around to spread the sealant after I've pumped it back up again & never a problem . My tyres are 29"x 2.25 & I always have the cylinder at around 120 psi & turn it off as soon as I hear the beading pop into place.
Hello Simon, loving your videos as always, I'm not a fan of tubeless, you still have to carry a inner-tube for when your on the trail and you can't get the tubeless to work!!, just to touch on the washing up liquid tick for tyres in general, it's fantastic, learnt it about 12 months ago and everytime the tyre will sit straight on the rim, keep up the good work JT
I've found that some tubeless tyres need more sealant than expected - especially those with tan sidewalls for some reason. I needed an extra 50ml of sealant after a few weeks on my WTB Riddlers, after which they don't lose pressure overnight anymore. I even managed to get them on with a normal track pump, just pumped like mad after making sure they were out of the central groove, and on the shoulder of the inner rim.
If we're adding 100 odd grammes of sealant, assuming 1ml = 1g is there really much weight saving 🤔 considering a latex tube weight in at 85g give or take.
@@ollieb9875 yup for real but for me tubeless is to allow lower pressures and avoid small punctures. It doesn't cope so well with flint cuts but the benefits are worth it on gravel. Don't think I'd bother on anything under 32c on road.
@@murkygrom cheers yeah, just thinking "out loud" really. I have 28's but kind of just ride them anywhere? 🤔 I guess if I was doing an epic only gravel ride I'd change them, there's set of 32's I've bought but never used. 🙃
Use a CO2 cartridge inflator if nothing else works. Then using your pump inflate to the max recommended pressure yo seat the rest of the way. After all this add your sealant and max inflate again and go for a short ride, then deflate to your preferred pressure.
I now keep the inner tubes in my wheels and remove the valve core put in the sealant replace the valve core and works every time never had a single flat and don't need a compressor pump . Thanks for another interesting video hope your tyres are still fine ....colin 👍🏻🚴♂️
@@alwaysanotheradventure yes sorry I wasn't so clear in my comment. Basically tubes still in valve unscrewed sealant put in then add valve and blow up with track pump as normal ....colin 👍🏻👌a few of my pals do this and never had any problems.
I had similar frustrations when I switched but where I ride, they’re pretty much mandatory with all the goathead stickers. I learned a couple things. Make sure to keep them inflated even when you’re not riding. More sealant is better, at least on my combo. Take a spare tube along in case of a blowout, which happened to me. I need a proper pump or compressor so I don’t have to keep going into the shop. Good, helpful video!
Yes, a burst pump or compressor are essential. Your initial challenge of leaks at the bead were strange (probably a poor seat of the bead) however lately gravel tubeless ready tyres are built light and that compromises the seal on the tread & sidewalls. You can test that by spraying soapy water on the tyre and many times you will see a myriad of white foamy spots for every leak. My solution is much more sealant than recommended - say 50% to 80% more - and I use Orange sealant as it seems to work best for me. A syringe and a bit of tube as an injector is better and you can buy the bigger sealant bottles instead of the one dose size. Great channel.
Swearing definitely helps, if only in making you feel better. What finally worked for me last week was removing the valve core to get the tyre to seat, and on;y then adding sealant, replacing core and reinflating.
I’m still not 100% convinced by tubeless. I’ve had a frustrating series of slow leaks, just the thing I thought tubeless was supposed to stop! So then I had to fit an inner tube at the roadside and with a tube in the tyre would not seat properly at all. Then I had to buy an air tank (£50) to get the tyres set up again tubeless, no chance with just my usual pump. That actually worked quite well but now I’ve got another slow puncture. And yes I know sealant has a limited life so I’ve got fresh sealant in there now - still leaking. Now I feel I need to carry 2 tubes and even a small bottle of sealant in my toolkit. I’m frustrated, but not giving up yet although returning to inner tubes is tempting. Please keep us posted on your tubeless progress.
If your are struggling to ger the bead to seat you can add an extra layer of rim tape right round the rim. this reduces the size of the gap between tyre and rim so that the air rushing in is more likely to force the tyre out and seat it rather than just escape. Also remove the valve core so the inrush of air is quicker so it has to build up in the tyre as it tries to escape. Once it has seated, overinflate then bounce the wheel and tyre on the ground a few times to shock any unseated parts of the tyre onto the bead. If you use CO2 to set the tyre, then deflate the tyre once it has seated and flush with air before putting sealant in, as some sealants don't like CO2.
I've been using tubeless from day one on my gravel bikes and its fantastic. Originally on some things inner wall rims with wider tyres it was a bit of hassle getting them in but since I switched to wider internal rims with wider tyres Its been great. 43s can be done with normal track pump. Recently ride the way of roses coast to coast with some additional off road built in and didn't have any problems. I do a mix of road and gravel and the sealant does a fantastic job of sealing small punctures. As stated before its definitely worth persisting. I've also been waxing my chain (melting wax in a slow cooker)this year and thats another revelation.. but for another day possibly..
I have found that tubeless on my gravel bike is a winner. On my road bike it’s been 50/50 win/fail. I like running lower pressure’s for comfort without worrying about pinch flats. Tubeless requires more maintenance, really gotta keep on top of the sealant with regular top ups. I’ve given up on tubeless a couple of times, but keep on trying. Setting up with an Airshot works well.
Yep, I've gone back to tubes. Had a puncture which wouldn't seal, but thought all is OK be as I'd brought a tube with me. Then, I couldn't get the tyre off the rim as the sealant had well and truly "glued" the tyre on! Ha! If you're not obsessed with weight and the marginal increased comfort lower pressues offer, then tubes are easy. If we started with tubeless, tubes would be considered a revolutionary step forward.
Interestingly I have had the exact opposite experience! When I looked inside the tyre, there were a number of micro holes that the sealant had filled. Worst thing that happened was that I hit a rock and lost about 10psi in the front tyre whilst it sealed, so a 5 min stop to add air and it has been fine since. Tubeless isn't the easiest thing to set up but once it's done, you can pretty much guarantee (your personal experience excluded!) that you will have less punctures for the life of the tyre (I have had none in 9 months of gravel and road riding)
I have a set of schwalbe g-one all round and it really requires strength and persuasion to fit on my dt swiss g1800 rims. But once it's on it can actuallty be seated with a hand pump with quick enough strokes, I've done it. It just fits so snug. Before the schwalbes I actually tried fitting some wtb byways tubeless, wasn't possible to seat with a floor pump even, had the bike shop use the air compressor. Those were also seeping air out, really thin sidewalls with little pinholes, would loose all pressure over night. The schwalbe+g1800 combo has been decent. I've still had issues, changing the rim tape is a hassle (not sure why but the rim tape on just one of my wheels suddenly started leaking air). A constant pain is that the sealant seems to dry up really quickly, doesn't help that I have to store my bicycle on the apartment balcony that's getting blasted by hot sun in the summer. Been considering putting in some latex inner tubes.
Lift your wheel off the ground ie on the back of a bike stand. Also you can put a inner tube around the outside of the tyre to press it to the rim. This is a new trick I learned and it works a treat. It's a method used on motorcycles and car tyres.
@@alwaysanotheradventure th-cam.com/video/23Seo6xhPUE/w-d-xo.html this is it. But I did it with a 29er inner tube around it. Which was very easy. Normally I don't struggle, but this tyre was awkward.
I've very recently gone tubeless on my road bike. It's certainly true that they are a pain to fit, but as soon as they are on they have been superb. I've got Hunt wheels paired with Continental GP 5000 TL and they are amazing. They run very fast and smooth. The GP5000's are very tight to get on. In the end I resorted to hand soap and water and the assistance of a friend to get them on and to get them to seat. I found a standard track pump worked just fine to inflate and seat the tire.
Essential to first inflate new tubeless tires on the rim with an inner tube to let them seat for a day or two. Then try the soapy water trick with a compressor or air chamber pump.
@@nickisauer9626 I'm certain you're right Nick. My first gravel tyres WTB on Love Mud rims were impossible to remove from the rims - the beads sat so tight. I guess it's know what combinations are best.
I either put a thin ratchet strap (or tie a piece of string) around the circumference of the wheel. This reduces the volume of air required and also ‘pushes’ the tyre bead outwards. Soapy water and a quick burst of air = job done! 😀
Perhaps I have just been very fortunate but I didn't have any problems making my gravel bike tubeless - (sorry!). Someone else commented not to worry about the bead position and I agree with that. I simply refitted the tyre and inlflated it to position it as you would normally (no compressor, just a normal track pump), then deflated it, removed the valve core, used 70ml of Muc Off sealant and pumped up again. whole job took 15 mins. The tyres were Schwalbe G One Bites on DT Swiss C 1850's. The thing that took the longest was getting the new tubeless valves out of the packet...
I hate you. 😈 Joking aside, you've done very well there Rob, as a quick read of the comments shows. I'm learning that some combinations of tyres/rims work well together while some are a PIA. I'll be trying to get some Schwalbe G-One All Rounds on these rims for winter, so 🤞they go as easy as yours!
Maybe I got lucky but first time tubeless I did it with just a track pump. ATD840 wheel set, Hutchinson Override 35s. Have since de-mounted and re-mounted them, again with no issues. The soapy water definitely helps.
I use tubes in my road bike tyres, but both mountain bike and gravel bike are tubeless-but then I have a compressor so seating them is no problem. A couple of my pals bring theirs round for me to seat as well-compressor always does the trick.
I have found tubeless on my road bike to be a bit temperamental. My initial setup, done by the bike shop, was good but I was losing about 20psi (out of 80) overnight. I put a bit more sealant in the tyres and that lasted fine until I broke a spoke. The bike shop that fixed my wheel couldn't seem to get the tubeless right even after 3 attempts so I took it back to my original bike shop and they just cleaned the tyre, checked all the internal tape seals, and set it up for me once more. So far so good with minimal loss of pressure overnight (> 5psi). So I'm persevering but it is a learning curve.
My set up set up is a little more ghetto. The same thing you have but home made. It is the essential ingredient to seat the tyre. It is also the Achilles heal, if you burp your tyre on trail it's either tube or co2 cartridges. All good for racing but touring IDK.
Yep, I was almost crying once getting tubeless seated. Easiest way is your local shop, the mechanics deal with tubeless all day, every day, and know every trick. Once they are on, leave them, just add sealant every three months. If you want to do it yourself with new tires: mount them with a tube overnight, the tires will have seating memory then you can set them up much easier. Gravel bike tires are harder than large mtn bike tires. The leaking can be several things; sidewalls too thin, also the rubbery bits against the rim don't allow for a good seal, the tire has to be spotless to seat well. The floor pumps with pressure chamber are best. Like you said, some tire/rim combinations are more difficult than others.
I tried tubeless on road tires with smaller circumference on my recumbent. What I learned is on thinner road tires you can’t always fix holes that are too big for the sealant on the road with the rubber strings patch. The tire doesn’t seem to be strong enough to always hold it. So I always carry a spare inner tube because of this. The smaller wheel diameter also seem more sensitive in that the tyre can get wobbly if you don’t fit it carefully with soapy water. Because otherwise it won’t fit evenly on the rim. So if I had a puncture and needed to use a spare tube on the road I have to tolerate some wobble until I get home. I think tubeless have more downsides if you have wheels with smaller diameter and narrow road tires.
I have had mixed results, I use tubes in my road bike and any off road mtb and gravel I run tubeless. Once I have them inflated I put the wheels back in the bike, bike goes in the stand or on the rack on the wall and I spin the wheels fast and this seems to distribute the sealant better than your method which Ive tried! Then when the bike isn’t being ridden I keep the pressures high 50-60psi and this means its less likely to loose air. I think once you have ridden the bike the tyres seat themselves better, I also use more sealant than that and one last tip the sealant drys out over time so remember to top it back up in the summer more frequently probably check mine every 6 weeks. Good luck!
Got a puncture the other day...in my kitchen- just moving a wheelset around!!! I suppose it could have been a thorn that is now rolling inside the tyre? However, the sealant did it's job and sealed the tiny hole in a minute or so, with only the finest of sprays. (I stood the puncture on a square of kitchen towel with no mess.) Imagine what that might have been like with a tube in? Tyre off, find the thorn, fix the tube etc., etc. Now THAT would have driven me bonkers. PS I use the Giant version of the booster pump and it's very effective.
I have Mavic ALLROAD PROS with Mavic elite tyres and I put in glitter as eventhough supposed to work no issues I couldn't get a perfect non leaky tyre however now I do lose air but over days not overnight. Btw I learnt the hardway when i had a sidewall puncture didnt seal and I could not find where underneath the muck with no luck finally resorted to muc offs Bam tyreweld and whoosh it came spraying out still not sealing but now I knew where the rip was and a Stans dart fixed it. Cost me around £19 to fix a tubeless puncture....
I didn’t want to buy an “air shot” pump/tank until I was ready to commit to tubeless as they are expensive. This meant the only way I could mount a tyre was to use an inner rube to inflate the tyre and then remove the tube. This meant I had one side of the tyre fully seated and a tyre lever to seat the other side as much as possible and do the rest by pumping like mad! However I still not convinced - mine lose very little air and it’s fantastic when I see/feel/hear a puncture self sealing, but when they don’t seal it’s been a nightmare with worms etc blowing out on the same ride or the next with messy swaps to install a tube out on the road. A video on how to do effective road side repairs would be great.
Hi Piers - I'm really not yet convinced about tubeless. After this video a company that makes a simple 'system' sent me a load of product. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. So I'm absolutely not the one to do anything on roadside repairs! I'd just bung in a tube. 😁
HI -another tip I've found is that you should take a CO2 canister on the road. if you need to repair a tire while out and about and the tire comes out of the bead area, the CO2 canister works a bit like a shock pump to get the tire to reseat properly. then pump up to pressure.
I've found tubeless to be a godsend for gravel riding and I can't remember the last time I had a puncture that stopped me in my tracks. Tubeless tyre tecnology is improving and generally speaking it's becoming less of a hassle to set them up, although I do aknowledge that some tyre/rim combinations just don't jive. One thing to mention is that at min 6.06 you see sealant oozing out of the tyre and move the spot to the top to avoid that. In my experience you should keep that spot at the bottom and give the wheel a wee shoogle. That will allow more fluid, not less, to flow into the gap and do its job of sealing the leak.
I recently went tubeless on my gravel bike, prime wheels and maxxis 45c tires. Front tire seated straight away with a normal track pump, rear was a bit more of a pain but I just used a bit of soapy water around the rim and it went on. So far so good. I'll always carry a tube with me just in case!
I share your set up frustrations and annoyance. Hated setting mine up initially but have now found a method that works! I found that the Bontrager pump you use to be the difference. And as many have mentioned some rims and tires just don't match. The DT Swiss rims on my gravel bike set up no problem. My WTB rims on the mountain bike have some issues depending on the tire. It's all fun and games though. Wouldn't go back to tubes.
I have Sonder wheels with WTB tyres. Making them tubeless was very easy, and I only needed a normal track pump. They stayed inflated overnight without any sealant. Getting the tyres back off is a different matter- they are ludicrously difficult to remove. The tyre bead is so firmly into the rim that I have to stand on the tyre and heave upwards on the rim. I guess a lot is down to specific tyre/ rim combinations.
I found gravel tyres a lot harder than MTB tyres, good tip is to put a ratchet strap around the tyre and this will push the bead out to the side of the rim. You can then just pump up the tyre without a compressor.
It’s all about manufacturing tolerances. Mavic uses the published ETRTO standard and nails it with both tires and rims. Many others are hit and miss. So undersized tires on oversized rims won’t hold, and undersized tires on oversized rims won’t go on. Then there is the uniformity of the bead seal on the tire and the height of the rim bed and bead seat-to-hook height, if there is one. As manufacturers get better, it goes from impossible to easy.
Well done for getting there tubeless. For my shorter local rides I doubt its worth the bother at moment. Maybe one day. I get little punctures with normal inner tubes.
use an inner tube to seat the tyre correctly, then unseat one side of the tyre to remove the inner tube and the blast of air will re-seat that tyre easily (incidentally the inner tube inflated over night also helps seat brand new tubeless tape). If the tyre has not popped 3 to 4 times on the rim then there is no point adding sealant, repeat the process until the tyre seats correctly. Tubeless setup is much easier than the internet would have you believe but it does require an initial learning experience and then you will love it.
I had converted to tubeless and had changed a few tyres with no issues. Then I got a new tyre and had to make it seat with the help of an inner tube for a day before it had a good shape to pop onto the rim. I think the new tyre had been folded in the packaging and this didn't help it. So Derek I think the inner tube idea is a winner!
To get the bead to seat what you want to do is stretch the tire out by sliding your lever around the rim. You want the edge of the tire to come to about rim height all around and go back down once you've moved on from that spot. After that, and this is important, use a compressor to inflate your tires to 40 or 50 PSI and your tires will stretch out the last little bit and the bead should seat. If it doesn't, drop it down to around 20 PSI and what you want to do is use your hands to convince the bead into place by rolling the tire in the correct direction perpendicular to the wheel. Once you've got it seated add your sealant and inflate back to around 45 PSI. Do the sealant spreading dance and then let the tires sit for at least a few hours. After that, let the air out down to like 10 PSI and inflate back up to where you want it then go ride.
@@alwaysanotheradventure Yeah, I see that! This is what worked for me doing my very first tubeless conversion about a month ago. It was pretty rapid fire with what went right and wrong, but once I got it I had 0 issues until I burped a tire landing a jump crooked.
If struggling I have found that leaving new tyres inflated (with tubes) overnight helps. Also, I have found that in some cases the tyre will consistently seat one side and not the other if this is the case make sure you carefully remove the tube using the side that seats easier. Hope it helps someone.
I have tried tubeless and am not a fan. While I initially had problems seating the bead, I resolved this by pumping up the tyre with a tube inserted, till the bead was located. I then popped out one side of the tyre to remove the tube. This reduced the initial gaps by 50%, i.e., half the tyre was installed. Popping the other side in was a doddle.
I had same issues you were having. Your tyre / wheel combo looks like its losing way too much sealant after its popped on to the rim. I spoke to the Schwalbe guys at Tweedlove recently - dont bother trying to hook the bead up to the rim, keep them in the centre channel, ensuring either side of the valve head. Your pump booster / compressor needs to have a solid connection on the valve so as not to loose too much air when trying to inflate. A tip I hadn't heard before was, if still struggling, to have the valve at 12 o'clock and repeatedly and quickly push on the top of the tyre as you release the air. I've seated my tubeless since then, with minimal issues. Are you making g sure the tyre is truly seated? - there is an indicator line around the circumference of the tyre that should have uniform spacing to the rim once seated and inflated; also once seated, inflate to your running pressure and leave for a short time to see if the tyre rexmains reasonably inflated - although you need to eventually add the sealant to fill the micro holes and truly seal the tyre. .... hope I'm not teaching your granny to suck eggs!! 😊
MTB have been using tubeless for years and have the experience of working with them. Some observations! Some combinations of rim and tyre are hopeless, miles from the dimensions they should be. Newer designs are much better. You don't need to do that thing of poking the bead onto the rim shoulder, just make sure that the tyre is sitting either side of the valve. Add at least 100ml of sealant to a new tyre and this can be done while mounting the tyre. The key to seating the tyre is to get an big rush of air. To do this use at least one of those pumps with an extra reservoir of air and even better a garage compressor. REMOVE the valve insert while doing this! Your car tyres have been tubeless for some 60 years, it's just some new techniques to learn, do you remember how difficult it was to fix your first ever puncture? You went through the same learning process then! Gravel bikes benefit dramatically from tubeless because they can then be safely run at about 35psi. Chin up!
I would suggest you have a look a Tannus Armour inserts ..... no much weight penalty and almost fully puncture resistant. Life changing experience for me.
I always remove the valve before applying the compressor - you get more air to clamp the tires. I have noticed that you kept the valve on when you apply on the second times. I have no issue whatsoever doing so.
The time the tyre seated the valve was out. The second time the valve was in because I needed to inflate the tyre and I didn’t want the air to come out when I removed the pump head.
I dont think youve gone wrong anywhere. Inner tubes have worked well for many a year, its a mature product. Stick with them i would, so much easier to change and inflate when your out in the sticks its a no brainer. For the sake of the weight of a spare tube its just not worth it, and 9 out of 10 times you can repair a tube anyway just to get you home. I wouldnt even consider them myself. Loved the video though thanks. Keep them coming 👍
I stick with the latex inner tubes for now. Mostly I can't really afford a new set of tubeless ready rims at the moment but they seem fine enough as is. Only thing I would say is it's a bit of a pain pumping the tyres up every other day or before riding because they're definitely more porous than butyl ones.
@@detmer87 ohhh ok 🤔 that's interesting I wouldn't have thought of that. Though I don't really want to add grammes of weight there I could try it, cheers fellow. 👍🍻🙂
True, but small hassle. I find it difficult to get on the bike without checking pressure first anyway no matter what tire or tube. Helps combat skinny arms as well!
I go back and forth with tubeless. When they work, they are superb. Ride comfort and feel is better, intangible, but great, especially off road or on road but with gravel tyres. I like to swap tyres about though, and its more fussy and time consuming with tubeless. Or can be! Wtb tyres in wtb rims- easy. 650 x 2.8 schwalbe g-ones- no problem (all with a track pump and enthusiasm). Terravail gravel tyre on same rims- couldn't get it to seat. Wasted a lot of time and sealant. Have been commuting and touring on tubeless for a few years and most of the time it just works, apart from when I'm changing tyres etc.
You've expressed exactly how I feel - swapping tyres etc. Great when they work but I find myself not wanting to put on the 'right' tyres for a job because it's so much fuss.
The best bit about tubeless is the micro punctures that would normally have you fixing a inner tube. With tubeless you just keep going. Big punctures may need attention but thorns and the like …..sorted.
I use a AIR SHOT pump it up as far as possible. Make sure core is removed and give it a FULL blast. Sealed. Tyre bead is cleaned first of old crud. I also put too much sealant in intentionally. I carry a tube too as there is no way to do a proper repair if it’s ever needed on a tubeless with a normal pump in hand.
One thing that can help is a thicker layer of rim tape-put a couple more layers on. If the bead is loose over the tape, all the air escapes under the bead and never pushes the bead against the rim. Tubeless is extremely frustrating no doubt and questionable whether it’s worth it unless you get a lot of thorn punctures.
Carrry less stuff! I didn't carry inner tubes until I went tubeless🤣 Never had a problem setti g up before but I'll admit tubeless was a nightmare until I changed to Stans Race, now I'm quite confident of it. 👍 An extra layer of Gorilla tape can solve seating issues. Definitely take the bike for a ride straight away which gets the sealant distributed nicely. Nice video Simon👍
Interesting, I don't get on with the Stans Race, I know it's supposed to be better than their normal stuff but it just didn't seem to work for me. I've ended getting a bottle of their normal sealant. I've still got the Race sealant, might have to give it another go sometime 🙂
@@johncamateras4230 👍 That's does seem to be the strange thing about tubeless, it appears to be a slightly different experience for different riders. I'm sticking with Race because it's the first sealant that's been reliable for me compared to others, yet I used the other sealants on Julie's bike and they always worked fine for her????
Easiest way I've found... Fit tyre as normal....with a tube. Blow up to decent pressure so that at least one tyre bead seats properly. Lever off bead from one side only, taking care to leave the seated bead in place. Take out tube, then refit the tubeless valve. Lever the other side of the tyre onto the rim. Now for the fun part....make this widget BEFORE you go anywhere near a tubeless tyre!! You'll need a 2l drink bottle, some knackered tubes with Presta valves, and a bit of fish tank tubing. (Mine cost about £2! Drill holes in the bottle top for Presta valves...hole should be as small as possible to retain the seal.Thread valves through holes ( a dab of silicone sealant makes the seal better) What you should have is a pop bottle with two Presta valves sticking out of the lid. You can reinforce the bottle with duct tape if you are wary. Remove the valve core from one of the valves and pry the air tubing onto it. This is the outlet side. (Warming it helps, as it shrinks it nips onto the valve.) Good glue works too. Here we go... Take the valve core out of your tubeless wheel. Attach the air tubing...warmed to ease it on. Important bit...fold the tubing so it nips tightly closed, and secure with a bit of tape. Get out the track pump and whack about 80-100 psi in the bottle Pray it doesn't explode... Once at pressure, take the tape off and straighten the kink out of the tube...and watch 2l of high pressure air whoosh into your tyre and pop the second bead into place! Remove air pipe from wheel Inject latex into valve, refit core, then stand back and congratulate yourself on your engineering magnificence! Seriously...it works. Loads of videos/instructions on tinternet under 'ghetto tubeless'. Obviously you could go out and buy a compressor, or a proper tubeless air chamber. Needless to say...this is a homemade pressure vessel, so has an inherent 'boom' potential. I believe most drinks bottles are capable of taking huge pressures...but don't use a cheap bottle, and you do this at your own risk.
Yep...the first time you pressurise it, you can feel a bit nervous. But we regularly inflate tyres to huge pressure without thinking about it. First time I did it I covered the bottle in a wet blanket...the realised how the idea of a 'wet blanket' was quite appropriate at the time...
I've stayed away from tubless for the same reasons you've mentioned. Seems like a lot of work and frustration - and you can still have flats and still need to carry a spare tube, and it can be a big mess. I'll be watching for your updates. Maybe it's worth it and I'll change my mind???
Just spent a wasted weekend trying to get G One All-round to go tubeless with a burst pump. Just could not get them to seat. Massively frustrating and ended up reverting back to inner tubes so I could actually get out for a ride. Really want to try tubeless but not with this level of frustration...
I feel your frustration. This wasn't really meant to start out as a video, I was getting so annoyed like you Mark that I picked up the GoPro and recorder and started talking!
great vid and have subbed ,right here's my tuppence worth ,have watched countless hours on tubeless tyres for everyone that likes them there must be 50 who don't ! to me they are just to much faff but every one to their own ,my biggest problem i like rides many miles from home have always got home after a flat ,not so sure with tubeless ,also replacing the sealant every few months more cost and faff ,why does everyone have to run these daft low pressures ? i'm getting on it takes more energy to peddle ,never felt the need for "extra" grip ! also i have two bikes which are tubeless ready, the tyres that came with them are nearly impossible to get off ! i had to use two screw drivers to break the bead free not good if you are miles from home ,have since found the utterly brilliant vittoria terrano dry tyres which go on and off no bother ,so i'll be sticking with bog standard tubes and tyres
We all struggle first time with tubeless, however since setting them up in one year I've had one flat, no ldea why cos when I pumped it up it stayed up. I still carry a spare tube just in case
TH-cam seems to block comments with links in them - I see them myself but can’t publish them. Try to avoid links please
You basically are trying to seat both sides of the tyre at the same time, which is why you need so much air to do that as loads will escape before it seats. If you put an inner tube in there first and inflate it, before you put any sealant or tubeless valve. This will get the tyre seated without the need for a special pump or compressor. Then open one side of the tyre, remove the inner tube and fit the Tubeless Valve. Then you will have one side already fully seated. It is then much easier to seat the remaining side as not as much air will escape so you won't really need the big blast of air. I normally do a dry run to make sure the tyre plays ball before I put in the sealant. Then I open a small section with a tyre lever and just pour in the sealant but you can of course insert it through the valve, like you did, after the tyre is fully seated. Using the Washing up liquid on the bead is a good idea also. Make sure you clean the inside of any new tyres before fitting with something like IPA as there can be mould release on there than can prevent the sealant doing it's job. I have a compressor but doing this method. I wouldn't need to use it on anything but the most stubborn tyres. and can normally get most combinations seated without any issue.
Don’t worry about trying to get the bead to seat. Let it be in the middle when you inflate it. Pull the valve core to allow a higher volume of air when you initially seat it. You can always seat the tire with a tube let it sit or ride it for a couple of days and then break the bead on one side also is a technique I have found helpful for new tires especially hand built ones. Lastly you can use a come along strap a red the circumference to help push the side walls out. Never had to use them on gravel tires, only on fat bike tires, but it could help if your tires are too big for your rim. Lastly, you can lay your wheel level on its side. I set it on a round open trash can (you call them bins) for an hour and then flip to the other side to get a good coat of sealant on the side walls. I have had good success with tires like Rene Herse that have extremely thin porous sidewalls.
Simon so I had some issues getting a set of factory supplied SCHWABLE G-One all round tyres to re-seal after I let the them down to refill with more sealant. I went back to the shop where I bought the bike and they couldn’t re-seal the tyres either. Both of us were using a compressor. The shop agreed to swap these tyres claiming faulty. So great for me. The main reason for going tubeless in my opinion is to allow for lower pressures for off road use and better grip. Yes unless you are brave and don’t mind walking home you carry one, possibly two tubes depending on days / distance. I ride off road as much as possible, gravel is bumpy, single track is slippy both need as much grip as possible. My hunt 650b’s have much more volume to run at lower pressures where tubes would not work well. There are many solutions to protect against punctures running tubeless is one of them and the best in my opinion. Once you get familiar with the method the only time you fit a tube is when you are stuck out on a trail with no chance of repairing a big leak / tyre burp where you can’t get enough air back in the tyre. My experience is with both gravel and MTB tyres. MTB seems to be easier due the the bulkier nature of both the wheel rims and tyres.
I’ve often considered tubless but it all looks such a ballache I have never been bothered. Look forward to an update!
Tubeless is great for me. Easy enough to install when you get the hang of it. Not messy as is often quoted.
I made a makeshift "compressor" from an unused 5L pressure sprayer I had lying around and it worked great. It took me a good while to give tubeless a go on my gravel bike and have never looked back since. Thanks for showing it like it is though. It is not always moonshine and roses when it comes to bicycle maintenance.
Great video, tubeless can sometimes be frustrating but once you have cracked it you never go back. Having used tubeless for years on my enduro mountain bike I recently got a Whyte Friston gravel bike and although I set it up tubeless I wasn’t happy with the performance because at low pressures I was worried about rim damage. I decided to try some Vittoria gravel inserts, what a difference! I can run low pressures (30psi rear 25 front on 45c tyres with no risk of damage) the other revelation was how they hold the bead in place. It is now possible to inflate and seat the tyre using a high volume mini pump, great for trail side repairs if needed. In a way it’s adding more tech to the solution, but for me it has made tubeless even better.
Thanks Neil - I'm learning SO much from the comments after making this video!
Not sure if anyone has said this but the vittorio airliners have brought me what I was looking for from tubeless. Easy to set up (the liner holds the bead in place), no burping, no rim dings. Very very worth it. I use a homemade inflator using a large coke bottle, plenty of articles online. You can also use a kayak strap placed around the tyre and cinched down tight to help the bead grab. The sealant does work well, but with the higher pressure I’ve had to use plugs many times for quite small holes compared to MTB tubeless wheels. Plugs are another art form in their own right… But all in all I’ve been tubeless on my main bike (gravel) for 3 years now and only had to resort to a tube once when I got a massive side wall slash. So for me, they are worth the effort.
Sounds good - thank you!
Nice to see a video from somebody who hates something but is willing to give it a go. I look forward to your update, Simon.
Gravel and off-road group chats seem to be constantly banging on about tyres and especially tubeless. The replies seem to be 50-50 between those who can't stand the messy faff and have given up, or those who think they are wonderful, for the reasons you stated.
I'm getting my first ever new bike, hand-built, and will be gaining lots of different technology - through axles, internal hub (Rohloff), disc brakes, ... and tubeless tyres. The guy who's building the bike gave me a quick demo of how he can seat a tubeless tyre with a floor pump, he also pulled a thorn from his tyre and it sealed instantly, and that plus a few other things he said and showed me, has persuaded me to give them a go - despite the fact I haven't had any p*nct*r*s in years with clinchers ... wondering if I am tempting fate. [I didn't want to jinx myself by spelling out the "p-word" in full!]
Fitted tubeless on two sets of rims now. One tyre was a right swine, but finally got it to seat. These were old tyres so had leaky sidewalls until I put more sealant in and gave it a good shake.
Second set on some dtswiss rims, absolutely no hassle whatsoever and managed with a normal track pump with no compressor.
Did the valve, pushed it through, tightened, chucked tyre onto rim, soapy water combo, inflated so it sat on the rim, took valve core out (careful not to unseat the tyre), added sealant, valve core back in, inflated, shake shake shake and spin. Jobs a good one.
Never had any issues since on either set. Yes you may get some loss of pressure after a while, but always check pre ride anyway.
I think it's like any new technology- as a people we're stubborn and set in our ways and are emotionally and financially involved in our 'old' ways. Worse again as cyclists were pedantically tribal and think that our wayis the best and this news fangled stuff is for others like MTBers or gravel riders or sometime else. Well done for sticking with it and getting it working and hope you finally see the light.
I recently went Tubeless on my Gravel, used the soapy liquid and just a track pump. I used Schwalbe One All-round tyres and they were easy to fit. I blew up the tyres and left them overnight, I did this a couple of times to make sure they formed nicely to the rims. Only then did I add the sealant, no issues at all, and they ride well. I then ordered new Tubeless wheels and tyres for my road bike, wheels were Mavic rear and Easton front, and both are UST, so no sealing or rim tape required, there are no holes for spokes etc, worth thinking about for new wheel purchases.. I fitted Scwalbe one tyres, and the process took around 15 mins, with a track pump and soapy liquid, no issues and they ride excellent, 3 weeks and no loss of pressure. I probably won't go back to tubes, but will carry one with me in case of a blow out.
I've run tubeless on my mountain bike for nearly ten years. Would never go back to tubes. This is not gravel specific, but 1. If tyre is new and proving tricky, use an innertube, inflate the tyre and leave inflated for 24 hours before trying to seat tubeless. 2. If a track pump isn't working, use a CO2 cannister (or a compressor if you have one handy). I read somewhere that CO2 is supposed to react with the sealant, so after getting everything seated, leave for a little while, deflate and re-inflate with a track pump a couple of times. Usually once it's seated once, it's pretty easy to re-inflate. 3. Use a higher pressure than you plan to ride on when initially seating the tyre. You want it to pop and seat evenly all around the rim. I might inflate a mountain bike tyre to 50 or 60psi, even if I plan to ride at 25 psi later. You certainly don't need to try to manually get it to hook into the rim !!! 4. When you add the sealant, don't just spin the wheel. Hold it on its side, shake, rotate a bit, shake and go all round the tyre then do the same on the other side. Yes. It's all a bit of a faff, but absolutely worth it. 5. Washing up liquid probably helps but I've never used it.
I've similarly tried to go tubeless with (I think I spotted the same in your video) my WTB Riddlers - got the Airshot Tubeless Tyre Inflator too and I don't know how many times (and hours) I've battled and given up at this point! You're making me consider trying again...
I have been tubeless since they were available. I also use the Bontreger Charge pump to set up my tires. I will never go back to tubes and have used CushCore gravel inserts on tires that are not sealing on my gravel wheel and tire combos.
Great summary of the trials and frustration of tubeless. I think your comments are spot on. Some combinations work well first time…Others don’t. With max charge pressure either from a compressor or charge pump most will work. Let’s face it however not all of us have this. Crying out for a compatibility review of works.well for normal folk….keep up the good work..
Thanks Ian. Two years ago my Camino came with Tubeless Ready (but with tubes) Love Mud Rims and I struggled like anything to get the WTB tyre beads out of grove - took ages and hurt my thumbs. Now I can see the value of such a combination. You're right though - we need a chart of what tyres work best with which rims!
Simon. Hi from Ballarat, Victoria, Love your work. Only been watching for a few months so missed the release of this episode. Would be pleased to hear the review after use. I agree your tips and would add another one or more ... Use a co2 bottle to ‘bang’ the beads into the rim. 2. Use plenty of sealant. I have learnt 200+mL in 45mm gravel tyres is almost bombproof. 3. Carry plugs and know how to use them. 4. 25g co2 bottles with an inflator with tap (so not the springy type) FAR better than multiple 16g bottles.
Been researching this for my road with 26 or 28c. I decided to go with light inner butyl tubes and tires. Total weight was lighter than tubeless at 330 g per set up. The issue I found in much of the research is the need to clean the previous sealant before resetting a tubeless and I am not going to benefit from much lower pressure. I will leave them at about 80 psi. I will stick with tubes and tires because I literally did it all with hand and a pump. No tools or hassle.
I've been riding tubeless since late 2019, and having benefited from its advantages, I like it. I agree that it is a b*tch to seat. Especially when trying out new tyres. I've since found an ideal pair, and I think I'll keep to those for now.
A few things I've learned through setting up tubeless myself:
1) dishwashing soap helps
2) using door hinges can help
3) a smidge of petroleum jelly on the tyre bead can help
4) beer also works (ply your local bike shop dudes with it, and you *might* help yourself with their compressor - obviously your results may vary)
I found that with difficult tire/rim combinations, set them up with a tube installed overnight and the tire will get seating memory for the rim, sort of like new shoes.
Ok... My 2 pence worth after being tubeless for over 3 years and changing winter/summer tyres every 6 months...
Add another run of rim tape, use soapy water around the rim and the tyre bead, use an airshot or compression pump (like you have). Inflate the tyre to max pressure once the tyre is on with sealant in and bump it around on the ground to make sure the whole bead is seated. Spin the tyre on its sides to disperse the sealant then put it on the bike and give 8t a good spin, deflate to the correct pressure and go for a quick spin. Job done... Its very easy once you've done it a few times. Another tip... Don't use WTB's, they notoriously leak through the side walls and in my experience puncture easily. The cinturattos you have are excellent 👍
Oh... Also make sure the tyres are warm.... Put them on a radiator overnight in the winter, makes them more supple😊
I share your frustrations! First attempt at tubeless was mixed and even the one done by a bike shop failed after a few months. After several punctures in short succession i decided I needed new tyres and it was time to have another go at tubeless. I'm lucky in that I now have a compressor but boy oh boy, it's scary stuff. Don't stop at the first pop is my advice but be careful you don't go mad either. I've come to realise you have to inflate your tyres more often, maybe even weekly and more so if you don't ride your bike that often, but I'd argue it's still better than a remote puncture on a wet day (they usually happen then) and leaving you wondering if you're going to get home now you've used your only spare inner. My advice is get everything scrupulously clean before hand, don't bother trying it with older/part worn tyres and you really do need a lot of air to get that bead seated so CO2 cartridges are not really a sensible option.
I'm still not sold on tubeless still use inner tubes. But my hunch is for tubeless to be very successful the wheel rim has to be optimum width for the tyres chosen to ensure a good quality tubeless tyre. For me that involves buying brand new mtb wheels and tyres which I think is where people have issues trying to convert old wheel tyre setups , just a hunch :)
Still getting to grips with tubeless tyres; refitting seems to be a bit hit-or-miss still. Originally ran Giant Crosscuts, the standard tyre supplied with my Giant Revolt. I managed to change out the sealant after 6 months use without problems. The tyres however were pretty useless in mud, or when attempting any type of climb with a loose surface. I opted for some Pirelli Cinturato (Gravel) tyres, which have been much much better for all-round grip, but a nightmare get fully beaded without leaks. Actually suffered the ignominy of a 10k walk home after losing all air through my bubbling rims, and using up 2 spare air cylinders to re-inflate. After more practice, and a dab of washing up liquid, finally managed to get both tyres to give out those 2 or 3 satisfying little pops, that tell you you've done the job. One good tip, is when you are pouring the sealant in at first, to just loosen the little nut that holds the valve into the wheel rim, so that some of the fluid can get in and around it and seal it effectively. Then tighten it up again once you've twirled and spun the wheel to distribute the fluid. Great channel, lovely videos, thanks for all the knowledge and experience you are sharing !
Very similar story to my experience. I tried 4 times over the last 2 years to get the tyres to seat on the rim and gave up every time.
After trawling endless forums I came across the Fairy Liquid tip but to use a lot of it, not a little and mix it with hot water. Soak a cloth or old rag into this mix and then coat the tyre rims, don't be shy with it and then recoat them for good measure. I think my face was more shocked than yours when the tyres seated within seconds of this method and I'm a big fan now. Running tubeless on my gravel bike and mountain bike now and won't go back.
C02 blast works as a last measure over your blaster. Also, using a tube to seat the tire traditionally, and then carefully extract it via one side, followed by a blast by your pump. This method saved me in the past. (Half the tire is properly mounted so your odds are improved ;-)
I've been tubeless on four of my five bikes for about 7yrs now (the road bike is still tubed). It can be very frustrating but you are really trading faff at home for potential faff out on the trail. I've had one wheel set up first time and stay up overnight without sealant but the second wheel refused to even seat - the same tyre and rim combo. Generally the bigger volume and lower pressure the tyre then the better tubeless works - it's ace on the fat bike😁Out on the trail I've had maybe half a dozen situations where the system has failed, that's in around 50,000km of riding, so it's not perfect but then nothing is.
The initial inflating and seating problem is down to the well in the wheel rim being a much smaller circumference than the tyre bead so the air just escapes, adding an extra wrap or two of tape helps fill it in so that the tyre bead is at least making some contact when you try to inflate.
Tips:
Once you've set the tyres up - go for a ride - the micro-flexing of the tyre helps get everything worked into where it should be.
If, when out on the trail, you have to put in an innertube then run round the inside of the tyre with tissue paper to find any thorns otherwise you'll be spending time fixing loads of punctures in the innertube!
You can use CO2 canisters to inflate tubeless out on the trail but you need to avoid "cold shock" of the sealant so turn the wheel so that the valve is near the 12 o'clock position and leave for a minute or two to let the sealant drip down to the bottom then apply the CO2.
Fortunate to say I never had your issues. I tried tubeless on my road bike and it worked at first try but I honestly could not tell a difference from a butyl inner tube while riding.
Maybe that is because I always ride with enough pressure (80-90 psi road, 35-50 psi offroad) which tends to eliminate pinch flats entirely.
In short: with the additional cost of special rim tape and sealant and the little gain (if any) from puncture resistance, I am struggling to find a business case for tubeless.
…maybe if I forgot to pump my tires and rode with 20-30 psi that would be different 😏
You've had lots of good comments and advice to this video and using tubeless. I would reiterate that a tubeless pump or separate air reservoir is critical. And you might not be using enough sealant. Be generous! I use 150-250 ml depending on tire size - I have tubeless on several bikes, from 25c road tires to 2.3" MTB, and 45c gravel bike as well. I will never willingly go back to tubes any more than I would run tubes in my car tires. Yeah it's a bit of a faff at times, but so worth it for the lower air pressure, fewer flats, and better performance especially cornering.
I also add my fluid before filling with air which helps seal the edges. Seriously it’s not difficult. I have 5 sets of tubeless wheels, never worked in the trade and practise makes perfect. Hardest tyres to bead were Conti GP5000 TL.
The game changer for me was putting a dab of silicone grease around the valve hole and on the bottom of the tubeless valve before inserting it, as the valve was a site of leakage on my first install.
Ah now that’s a good one, thank you.
Tubeless all the way. Never go back to inner tubes. Road and off-road. Yep it’s all going to be clean and a strong blast to sit him on the rims. I would probably use a bit more sealant to start with. have a decent sealant injector. Keep rolling, love your videos.
Realize this video is from a while back, but there is a tire seating lubricant and seal sold by both some of the bike parts companies (expensive) and by auto parts stores (cheap). This tire seat lubricant and seal has made an amazing difference for me when I install tubeless tires.
I always use a pump with a compression cylinder for the initial set up after that the tyre always sits correctly .I only spin the wheel around to spread the sealant after I've pumped it back up again & never a problem . My tyres are 29"x 2.25 & I always have the cylinder at around 120 psi & turn it off as soon as I hear the beading pop into place.
Hello Simon, loving your videos as always, I'm not a fan of tubeless, you still have to carry a inner-tube for when your on the trail and you can't get the tubeless to work!!, just to touch on the washing up liquid tick for tyres in general, it's fantastic, learnt it about 12 months ago and everytime the tyre will sit straight on the rim, keep up the good work JT
I've found that some tubeless tyres need more sealant than expected - especially those with tan sidewalls for some reason. I needed an extra 50ml of sealant after a few weeks on my WTB Riddlers, after which they don't lose pressure overnight anymore. I even managed to get them on with a normal track pump, just pumped like mad after making sure they were out of the central groove, and on the shoulder of the inner rim.
Similar experience with the Pirelli tan wall Cinturato's, weird...
If we're adding 100 odd grammes of sealant, assuming 1ml = 1g is there really much weight saving 🤔 considering a latex tube weight in at 85g give or take.
Thanks folks.
@@ollieb9875 yup for real but for me tubeless is to allow lower pressures and avoid small punctures. It doesn't cope so well with flint cuts but the benefits are worth it on gravel. Don't think I'd bother on anything under 32c on road.
@@murkygrom cheers yeah, just thinking "out loud" really. I have 28's but kind of just ride them anywhere? 🤔 I guess if I was doing an epic only gravel ride I'd change them, there's set of 32's I've bought but never used. 🙃
Use a CO2 cartridge inflator if nothing else works. Then using your pump inflate to the max recommended pressure yo seat the rest of the way. After all this add your sealant and max inflate again and go for a short ride, then deflate to your preferred pressure.
I now keep the inner tubes in my wheels and remove the valve core put in the sealant replace the valve core and works every time never had a single flat and don't need a compressor pump . Thanks for another interesting video hope your tyres are still fine ....colin 👍🏻🚴♂️
I’m not sure I understand. Are the valves for the inner tubes? In which case is this tubed tyres plus sealant?
@@alwaysanotheradventure yes sorry I wasn't so clear in my comment. Basically tubes still in valve unscrewed sealant put in then add valve and blow up with track pump as normal ....colin 👍🏻👌a few of my pals do this and never had any problems.
I had similar frustrations when I switched but where I ride, they’re pretty much mandatory with all the goathead stickers. I learned a couple things. Make sure to keep them inflated even when you’re not riding. More sealant is better, at least on my combo. Take a spare tube along in case of a blowout, which happened to me. I need a proper pump or compressor so I don’t have to keep going into the shop. Good, helpful video!
Yes, a burst pump or compressor are essential. Your initial challenge of leaks at the bead were strange (probably a poor seat of the bead) however lately gravel tubeless ready tyres are built light and that compromises the seal on the tread & sidewalls. You can test that by spraying soapy water on the tyre and many times you will see a myriad of white foamy spots for every leak. My solution is much more sealant than recommended - say 50% to 80% more - and I use Orange sealant as it seems to work best for me. A syringe and a bit of tube as an injector is better and you can buy the bigger sealant bottles instead of the one dose size. Great channel.
Swearing definitely helps, if only in making you feel better.
What finally worked for me last week was removing the valve core to get the tyre to seat, and on;y then adding sealant, replacing core and reinflating.
I’m still not 100% convinced by tubeless. I’ve had a frustrating series of slow leaks, just the thing I thought tubeless was supposed to stop! So then I had to fit an inner tube at the roadside and with a tube in the tyre would not seat properly at all. Then I had to buy an air tank (£50) to get the tyres set up again tubeless, no chance with just my usual pump. That actually worked quite well but now I’ve got another slow puncture. And yes I know sealant has a limited life so I’ve got fresh sealant in there now - still leaking. Now I feel I need to carry 2 tubes and even a small bottle of sealant in my toolkit. I’m frustrated, but not giving up yet although returning to inner tubes is tempting. Please keep us posted on your tubeless progress.
If your are struggling to ger the bead to seat you can add an extra layer of rim tape right round the rim. this reduces the size of the gap between tyre and rim so that the air rushing in is more likely to force the tyre out and seat it rather than just escape. Also remove the valve core so the inrush of air is quicker so it has to build up in the tyre as it tries to escape. Once it has seated, overinflate then bounce the wheel and tyre on the ground a few times to shock any unseated parts of the tyre onto the bead. If you use CO2 to set the tyre, then deflate the tyre once it has seated and flush with air before putting sealant in, as some sealants don't like CO2.
I've been using tubeless from day one on my gravel bikes and its fantastic. Originally on some things inner wall rims with wider tyres it was a bit of hassle getting them in but since I switched to wider internal rims with wider tyres Its been great. 43s can be done with normal track pump. Recently ride the way of roses coast to coast with some additional off road built in and didn't have any problems. I do a mix of road and gravel and the sealant does a fantastic job of sealing small punctures. As stated before its definitely worth persisting. I've also been waxing my chain (melting wax in a slow cooker)this year and thats another revelation.. but for another day possibly..
Thanks Stuart - I’m working on getting the chain waxing guru from Australia into a video in a month or two.
@@alwaysanotheradventure perfect that is who's method I follow.. look forward to seeing the video
I have found that tubeless on my gravel bike is a winner. On my road bike it’s been 50/50 win/fail. I like running lower pressure’s for comfort without worrying about pinch flats. Tubeless requires more maintenance, really gotta keep on top of the sealant with regular top ups. I’ve given up on tubeless a couple of times, but keep on trying. Setting up with an Airshot works well.
Yep, I've gone back to tubes. Had a puncture which wouldn't seal, but thought all is OK be as I'd brought a tube with me. Then, I couldn't get the tyre off the rim as the sealant had well and truly "glued" the tyre on! Ha! If you're not obsessed with weight and the marginal increased comfort lower pressues offer, then tubes are easy. If we started with tubeless, tubes would be considered a revolutionary step forward.
Interestingly I have had the exact opposite experience! When I looked inside the tyre, there were a number of micro holes that the sealant had filled. Worst thing that happened was that I hit a rock and lost about 10psi in the front tyre whilst it sealed, so a 5 min stop to add air and it has been fine since. Tubeless isn't the easiest thing to set up but once it's done, you can pretty much guarantee (your personal experience excluded!) that you will have less punctures for the life of the tyre (I have had none in 9 months of gravel and road riding)
I have a set of schwalbe g-one all round and it really requires strength and persuasion to fit on my dt swiss g1800 rims. But once it's on it can actuallty be seated with a hand pump with quick enough strokes, I've done it. It just fits so snug. Before the schwalbes I actually tried fitting some wtb byways tubeless, wasn't possible to seat with a floor pump even, had the bike shop use the air compressor. Those were also seeping air out, really thin sidewalls with little pinholes, would loose all pressure over night.
The schwalbe+g1800 combo has been decent. I've still had issues, changing the rim tape is a hassle (not sure why but the rim tape on just one of my wheels suddenly started leaking air). A constant pain is that the sealant seems to dry up really quickly, doesn't help that I have to store my bicycle on the apartment balcony that's getting blasted by hot sun in the summer. Been considering putting in some latex inner tubes.
Lift your wheel off the ground ie on the back of a bike stand.
Also you can put a inner tube around the outside of the tyre to press it to the rim. This is a new trick I learned and it works a treat. It's a method used on motorcycles and car tyres.
First time I’ve heard that trick - thank you!
@@alwaysanotheradventure th-cam.com/video/23Seo6xhPUE/w-d-xo.html this is it. But I did it with a 29er inner tube around it. Which was very easy. Normally I don't struggle, but this tyre was awkward.
I've very recently gone tubeless on my road bike. It's certainly true that they are a pain to fit, but as soon as they are on they have been superb. I've got Hunt wheels paired with Continental GP 5000 TL and they are amazing. They run very fast and smooth. The GP5000's are very tight to get on. In the end I resorted to hand soap and water and the assistance of a friend to get them on and to get them to seat. I found a standard track pump worked just fine to inflate and seat the tire.
Essential to first inflate new tubeless tires on the rim with an inner tube to let them seat for a day or two. Then try the soapy water trick with a compressor or air chamber pump.
That's what I tried to do - just couldn't get them onto those damn rims!
@@alwaysanotheradventure When you pump up the innertube the tire ussually seats to the rim. I figure some tire and rims just make a bad match.
@@nickisauer9626 I'm certain you're right Nick. My first gravel tyres WTB on Love Mud rims were impossible to remove from the rims - the beads sat so tight. I guess it's know what combinations are best.
I either put a thin ratchet strap (or tie a piece of string) around the circumference of the wheel. This reduces the volume of air required and also ‘pushes’ the tyre bead outwards. Soapy water and a quick burst of air = job done! 😀
Perhaps I have just been very fortunate but I didn't have any problems making my gravel bike tubeless - (sorry!). Someone else commented not to worry about the bead position and I agree with that. I simply refitted the tyre and inlflated it to position it as you would normally (no compressor, just a normal track pump), then deflated it, removed the valve core, used 70ml of Muc Off sealant and pumped up again. whole job took 15 mins. The tyres were Schwalbe G One Bites on DT Swiss C 1850's. The thing that took the longest was getting the new tubeless valves out of the packet...
I hate you. 😈
Joking aside, you've done very well there Rob, as a quick read of the comments shows. I'm learning that some combinations of tyres/rims work well together while some are a PIA. I'll be trying to get some Schwalbe G-One All Rounds on these rims for winter, so 🤞they go as easy as yours!
Maybe I got lucky but first time tubeless I did it with just a track pump. ATD840 wheel set, Hutchinson Override 35s. Have since de-mounted and re-mounted them, again with no issues. The soapy water definitely helps.
I use tubes in my road bike tyres, but both mountain bike and gravel bike are tubeless-but then I have a compressor so seating them is no problem. A couple of my pals bring theirs round for me to seat as well-compressor always does the trick.
I have found tubeless on my road bike to be a bit temperamental. My initial setup, done by the bike shop, was good but I was losing about 20psi (out of 80) overnight. I put a bit more sealant in the tyres and that lasted fine until I broke a spoke. The bike shop that fixed my wheel couldn't seem to get the tubeless right even after 3 attempts so I took it back to my original bike shop and they just cleaned the tyre, checked all the internal tape seals, and set it up for me once more. So far so good with minimal loss of pressure overnight (> 5psi). So I'm persevering but it is a learning curve.
My set up set up is a little more ghetto. The same thing you have but home made. It is the essential ingredient to seat the tyre. It is also the Achilles heal, if you burp your tyre on trail it's either tube or co2 cartridges. All good for racing but touring IDK.
Yep, I was almost crying once getting tubeless seated. Easiest way is your local shop, the mechanics deal with tubeless all day, every day, and know every trick. Once they are on, leave them, just add sealant every three months. If you want to do it yourself with new tires: mount them with a tube overnight, the tires will have seating memory then you can set them up much easier. Gravel bike tires are harder than large mtn bike tires. The leaking can be several things; sidewalls too thin, also the rubbery bits against the rim don't allow for a good seal, the tire has to be spotless to seat well. The floor pumps with pressure chamber are best. Like you said, some tire/rim combinations are more difficult than others.
Thanks Mike - I'm also going to try some MilKit stuff - see if that helps.
I tried tubeless on road tires with smaller circumference on my recumbent. What I learned is on thinner road tires you can’t always fix holes that are too big for the sealant on the road with the rubber strings patch. The tire doesn’t seem to be strong enough to always hold it. So I always carry a spare inner tube because of this. The smaller wheel diameter also seem more sensitive in that the tyre can get wobbly if you don’t fit it carefully with soapy water. Because otherwise it won’t fit evenly on the rim. So if I had a puncture and needed to use a spare tube on the road I have to tolerate some wobble until I get home. I think tubeless have more downsides if you have wheels with smaller diameter and narrow road tires.
I have had mixed results, I use tubes in my road bike and any off road mtb and gravel I run tubeless. Once I have them inflated I put the wheels back in the bike, bike goes in the stand or on the rack on the wall and I spin the wheels fast and this seems to distribute the sealant better than your method which Ive tried! Then when the bike isn’t being ridden I keep the pressures high 50-60psi and this means its less likely to loose air.
I think once you have ridden the bike the tyres seat themselves better, I also use more sealant than that and one last tip the sealant drys out over time so remember to top it back up in the summer more frequently probably check mine every 6 weeks. Good luck!
Got a puncture the other day...in my kitchen- just moving a wheelset around!!! I suppose it could have been a thorn that is now rolling inside the tyre?
However, the sealant did it's job and sealed the tiny hole in a minute or so, with only the finest of sprays. (I stood the puncture on a square of kitchen towel with no mess.)
Imagine what that might have been like with a tube in? Tyre off, find the thorn, fix the tube etc., etc. Now THAT would have driven me bonkers.
PS I use the Giant version of the booster pump and it's very effective.
I have Mavic ALLROAD PROS with Mavic elite tyres and I put in glitter as eventhough supposed to work no issues I couldn't get a perfect non leaky tyre however now I do lose air but over days not overnight.
Btw I learnt the hardway when i had a sidewall puncture didnt seal and I could not find where underneath the muck with no luck finally resorted to muc offs Bam tyreweld and whoosh it came spraying out still not sealing but now I knew where the rip was and a Stans dart fixed it.
Cost me around £19 to fix a tubeless puncture....
I didn’t want to buy an “air shot” pump/tank until I was ready to commit to tubeless as they are expensive. This meant the only way I could mount a tyre was to use an inner rube to inflate the tyre and then remove the tube. This meant I had one side of the tyre fully seated and a tyre lever to seat the other side as much as possible and do the rest by pumping like mad! However I still not convinced - mine lose very little air and it’s fantastic when I see/feel/hear a puncture self sealing, but when they don’t seal it’s been a nightmare with worms etc blowing out on the same ride or the next with messy swaps to install a tube out on the road. A video on how to do effective road side repairs would be great.
Hi Piers - I'm really not yet convinced about tubeless. After this video a company that makes a simple 'system' sent me a load of product. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. So I'm absolutely not the one to do anything on roadside repairs! I'd just bung in a tube. 😁
HI -another tip I've found is that you should take a CO2 canister on the road. if you need to repair a tire while out and about and the tire comes out of the bead area, the CO2 canister works a bit like a shock pump to get the tire to reseat properly. then pump up to pressure.
I've found tubeless to be a godsend for gravel riding and I can't remember the last time I had a puncture that stopped me in my tracks. Tubeless tyre tecnology is improving and generally speaking it's becoming less of a hassle to set them up, although I do aknowledge that some tyre/rim combinations just don't jive. One thing to mention is that at min 6.06 you see sealant oozing out of the tyre and move the spot to the top to avoid that. In my experience you should keep that spot at the bottom and give the wheel a wee shoogle. That will allow more fluid, not less, to flow into the gap and do its job of sealing the leak.
Thanks for that advice - i am learning SO MUCH form posting this video! The comments are great.
I recently went tubeless on my gravel bike, prime wheels and maxxis 45c tires. Front tire seated straight away with a normal track pump, rear was a bit more of a pain but I just used a bit of soapy water around the rim and it went on. So far so good. I'll always carry a tube with me just in case!
I share your set up frustrations and annoyance. Hated setting mine up initially but have now found a method that works!
I found that the Bontrager pump you use to be the difference.
And as many have mentioned some rims and tires just don't match. The DT Swiss rims on my gravel bike set up no problem. My WTB rims on the mountain bike have some issues depending on the tire.
It's all fun and games though. Wouldn't go back to tubes.
I now have a gravel bike and you are to blame! Started really enjoying off road but don't think I'll be going tubeless, thank you for sharing
I like being to blame for the that one Caroline. 😁
I have Sonder wheels with WTB tyres. Making them tubeless was very easy, and I only needed a normal track pump. They stayed inflated overnight without any sealant. Getting the tyres back off is a different matter- they are ludicrously difficult to remove. The tyre bead is so firmly into the rim that I have to stand on the tyre and heave upwards on the rim. I guess a lot is down to specific tyre/ rim combinations.
That was exactly my experience with the Sonder / WTB combo which came with tubes and nearly broke my thumbs trying to get one off!
I found gravel tyres a lot harder than MTB tyres, good tip is to put a ratchet strap around the tyre and this will push the bead out to the side of the rim. You can then just pump up the tyre without a compressor.
Telling it like it is... lol. I've never warmed up to tubeless either.
It’s all about manufacturing tolerances. Mavic uses the published ETRTO standard and nails it with both tires and rims. Many others are hit and miss. So undersized tires on oversized rims won’t hold, and undersized tires on oversized rims won’t go on. Then there is the uniformity of the bead seal on the tire and the height of the rim bed and bead seat-to-hook height, if there is one.
As manufacturers get better, it goes from impossible to easy.
Well done for getting there tubeless. For my shorter local rides I doubt its worth the bother at moment. Maybe one day. I get little punctures with normal inner tubes.
use an inner tube to seat the tyre correctly, then unseat one side of the tyre to remove the inner tube and the blast of air will re-seat that tyre easily (incidentally the inner tube inflated over night also helps seat brand new tubeless tape). If the tyre has not popped 3 to 4 times on the rim then there is no point adding sealant, repeat the process until the tyre seats correctly. Tubeless setup is much easier than the internet would have you believe but it does require an initial learning experience and then you will love it.
I had converted to tubeless and had changed a few tyres with no issues. Then I got a new tyre and had to make it seat with the help of an inner tube for a day before it had a good shape to pop onto the rim. I think the new tyre had been folded in the packaging and this didn't help it. So Derek I think the inner tube idea is a winner!
To get the bead to seat what you want to do is stretch the tire out by sliding your lever around the rim. You want the edge of the tire to come to about rim height all around and go back down once you've moved on from that spot. After that, and this is important, use a compressor to inflate your tires to 40 or 50 PSI and your tires will stretch out the last little bit and the bead should seat. If it doesn't, drop it down to around 20 PSI and what you want to do is use your hands to convince the bead into place by rolling the tire in the correct direction perpendicular to the wheel. Once you've got it seated add your sealant and inflate back to around 45 PSI. Do the sealant spreading dance and then let the tires sit for at least a few hours. After that, let the air out down to like 10 PSI and inflate back up to where you want it then go ride.
I really appreciate the advice. I’ve had LOADS in the comments since posting this - enough to make an advice manual of tips and tricks. Brilliant!
@@alwaysanotheradventure Yeah, I see that! This is what worked for me doing my very first tubeless conversion about a month ago. It was pretty rapid fire with what went right and wrong, but once I got it I had 0 issues until I burped a tire landing a jump crooked.
If struggling I have found that leaving new tyres inflated (with tubes) overnight helps. Also, I have found that in some cases the tyre will consistently seat one side and not the other if this is the case make sure you carefully remove the tube using the side that seats easier. Hope it helps someone.
I have tried tubeless and am not a fan. While I initially had problems seating the bead, I resolved this by pumping up the tyre with a tube inserted, till the bead was located. I then popped out one side of the tyre to remove the tube. This reduced the initial gaps by 50%, i.e., half the tyre was installed. Popping the other side in was a doddle.
I had same issues you were having. Your tyre / wheel combo looks like its losing way too much sealant after its popped on to the rim. I spoke to the Schwalbe guys at Tweedlove recently - dont bother trying to hook the bead up to the rim, keep them in the centre channel, ensuring either side of the valve head. Your pump booster / compressor needs to have a solid connection on the valve so as not to loose too much air when trying to inflate. A tip I hadn't heard before was, if still struggling, to have the valve at 12 o'clock and repeatedly and quickly push on the top of the tyre as you release the air. I've seated my tubeless since then, with minimal issues. Are you making g sure the tyre is truly seated? - there is an indicator line around the circumference of the tyre that should have uniform spacing to the rim once seated and inflated; also once seated, inflate to your running pressure and leave for a short time to see if the tyre rexmains reasonably inflated - although you need to eventually add the sealant to fill the micro holes and truly seal the tyre.
.... hope I'm not teaching your granny to suck eggs!! 😊
All good info, thanks Stephen. The tyres are leaking way less sealant now I've re-seated them.
MTB have been using tubeless for years and have the experience of working with them.
Some observations!
Some combinations of rim and tyre are hopeless, miles from the dimensions they should be. Newer designs are much better.
You don't need to do that thing of poking the bead onto the rim shoulder, just make sure that the tyre is sitting either side of the valve.
Add at least 100ml of sealant to a new tyre and this can be done while mounting the tyre.
The key to seating the tyre is to get an big rush of air. To do this use at least one of those pumps with an extra reservoir of air and even better a garage compressor. REMOVE the valve insert while doing this!
Your car tyres have been tubeless for some 60 years, it's just some new techniques to learn, do you remember how difficult it was to fix your first ever puncture? You went through the same learning process then!
Gravel bikes benefit dramatically from tubeless because they can then be safely run at about 35psi.
Chin up!
I would suggest you have a look a Tannus Armour inserts ..... no much weight penalty and almost fully puncture resistant. Life changing experience for me.
Are these for clinchers with tubes?
@@alwaysanotheradventure Yes
Enjoyed your "journey" with tubeless. Simon, how about a video where you demonstrate what it's like to change a tubeless flat during ride?
I’m dreading that moment but when it happens I’ll get the camera out
Also taking the core out helps to inflate and it’s essential to use a proper air charger.
I just remain unconvinced. It is all such a clat!
Your combination is on the loose side. With an extra layer of rimtape it will be easier to pop the tires.
Thanks for noticing that. I get what you mean.
Yeah, I went round at least twice and they popped on first time. Struggled initially with one wrap. Don't be shy with your rim tape 😂
I always remove the valve before applying the compressor - you get more air to clamp the tires. I have noticed that you kept the valve on when you apply on the second times. I have no issue whatsoever doing so.
The time the tyre seated the valve was out. The second time the valve was in because I needed to inflate the tyre and I didn’t want the air to come out when I removed the pump head.
I dont think youve gone wrong anywhere. Inner tubes have worked well for many a year, its a mature product. Stick with them i would, so much easier to change and inflate when your out in the sticks its a no brainer. For the sake of the weight of a spare tube its just not worth it, and 9 out of 10 times you can repair a tube anyway just to get you home. I wouldnt even consider them myself. Loved the video though thanks. Keep them coming 👍
I stick with the latex inner tubes for now. Mostly I can't really afford a new set of tubeless ready rims at the moment but they seem fine enough as is. Only thing I would say is it's a bit of a pain pumping the tyres up every other day or before riding because they're definitely more porous than butyl ones.
Try some latex sealant in your latex tubes. For me it reduced the tyre pressure losses by half!
@@detmer87 ohhh ok 🤔 that's interesting I wouldn't have thought of that. Though I don't really want to add grammes of weight there I could try it, cheers fellow. 👍🍻🙂
True, but small hassle. I find it difficult to get on the bike without checking pressure first anyway no matter what tire or tube. Helps combat skinny arms as well!
I go back and forth with tubeless. When they work, they are superb. Ride comfort and feel is better, intangible, but great, especially off road or on road but with gravel tyres.
I like to swap tyres about though, and its more fussy and time consuming with tubeless. Or can be!
Wtb tyres in wtb rims- easy.
650 x 2.8 schwalbe g-ones- no problem (all with a track pump and enthusiasm). Terravail gravel tyre on same rims- couldn't get it to seat. Wasted a lot of time and sealant.
Have been commuting and touring on tubeless for a few years and most of the time it just works, apart from when I'm changing tyres etc.
You've expressed exactly how I feel - swapping tyres etc. Great when they work but I find myself not wanting to put on the 'right' tyres for a job because it's so much fuss.
The best bit about tubeless is the micro punctures that would normally have you fixing a inner tube. With tubeless you just keep going. Big punctures may need attention but thorns and the like …..sorted.
I use a AIR SHOT pump it up as far as possible. Make sure core is removed and give it a FULL blast. Sealed. Tyre bead is cleaned first of old crud. I also put too much sealant in intentionally. I carry a tube too as there is no way to do a proper repair if it’s ever needed on a tubeless with a normal pump in hand.
One thing that can help is a thicker layer of rim tape-put a couple more layers on. If the bead is loose over the tape, all the air escapes under the bead and never pushes the bead against the rim.
Tubeless is extremely frustrating no doubt and questionable whether it’s worth it unless you get a lot of thorn punctures.
Thanks for this. Some great advice coming in.
Carrry less stuff! I didn't carry inner tubes until I went tubeless🤣 Never had a problem setti g up before but I'll admit tubeless was a nightmare until I changed to Stans Race, now I'm quite confident of it. 👍 An extra layer of Gorilla tape can solve seating issues. Definitely take the bike for a ride straight away which gets the sealant distributed nicely. Nice video Simon👍
Interesting, I don't get on with the Stans Race, I know it's supposed to be better than their normal stuff but it just didn't seem to work for me. I've ended getting a bottle of their normal sealant. I've still got the Race sealant, might have to give it another go sometime 🙂
@@johncamateras4230 👍 That's does seem to be the strange thing about tubeless, it appears to be a slightly different experience for different riders. I'm sticking with Race because it's the first sealant that's been reliable for me compared to others, yet I used the other sealants on Julie's bike and they always worked fine for her????
Easiest way I've found...
Fit tyre as normal....with a tube.
Blow up to decent pressure so that at least one tyre bead seats properly.
Lever off bead from one side only, taking care to leave the seated bead in place.
Take out tube, then refit the tubeless valve.
Lever the other side of the tyre onto the rim.
Now for the fun part....make this widget BEFORE you go anywhere near a tubeless tyre!!
You'll need a 2l drink bottle, some knackered tubes with Presta valves, and a bit of fish tank tubing. (Mine cost about £2!
Drill holes in the bottle top for Presta valves...hole should be as small as possible to retain the seal.Thread valves through holes ( a dab of silicone sealant makes the seal better) What you should have is a pop bottle with two Presta valves sticking out of the lid. You can reinforce the bottle with duct tape if you are wary.
Remove the valve core from one of the valves and pry the air tubing onto it. This is the outlet side. (Warming it helps, as it shrinks it nips onto the valve.) Good glue works too.
Here we go...
Take the valve core out of your tubeless wheel.
Attach the air tubing...warmed to ease it on.
Important bit...fold the tubing so it nips tightly closed, and secure with a bit of tape.
Get out the track pump and whack about 80-100 psi in the bottle
Pray it doesn't explode...
Once at pressure, take the tape off and straighten the kink out of the tube...and watch 2l of high pressure air whoosh into your tyre and pop the second bead into place!
Remove air pipe from wheel
Inject latex into valve, refit core, then stand back and congratulate yourself on your engineering magnificence!
Seriously...it works. Loads of videos/instructions on tinternet under 'ghetto tubeless'.
Obviously you could go out and buy a compressor, or a proper tubeless air chamber. Needless to say...this is a homemade pressure vessel, so has an inherent 'boom' potential. I believe most drinks bottles are capable of taking huge pressures...but don't use a cheap bottle, and you do this at your own risk.
That's Amazing Dan! 'Boom potential' - yikes.
I've skirted the edge of 'gheto tubeless' 🤣 but find it intimidating and nerdy in equal measure.
Yep...the first time you pressurise it, you can feel a bit nervous. But we regularly inflate tyres to huge pressure without thinking about it.
First time I did it I covered the bottle in a wet blanket...the realised how the idea of a 'wet blanket' was quite appropriate at the time...
I've stayed away from tubless for the same reasons you've mentioned. Seems like a lot of work and frustration - and you can still have flats and still need to carry a spare tube, and it can be a big mess. I'll be watching for your updates. Maybe it's worth it and I'll change my mind???
apply an extra few turns of rim tape so the tyre is tighter on the rim before your inflate them
I am desperate for a bike ride... Covid has had me almost not cycling under my belt in months... you're firing up that desire in me ... thanks
That's a good thing, right?😁
@@alwaysanotheradventure Absolutely
I'll be sticking to tubes,
Just spent a wasted weekend trying to get G One All-round to go tubeless with a burst pump. Just could not get them to seat. Massively frustrating and ended up reverting back to inner tubes so I could actually get out for a ride. Really want to try tubeless but not with this level of frustration...
I feel your frustration. This wasn't really meant to start out as a video, I was getting so annoyed like you Mark that I picked up the GoPro and recorder and started talking!
great vid and have subbed ,right here's my tuppence worth ,have watched countless hours on tubeless tyres for everyone that likes them there must be 50 who don't ! to me they are just to much faff but every one to their own ,my biggest problem i like rides many miles from home have always got home after a flat ,not so sure with tubeless ,also replacing the sealant every few months more cost and faff ,why does everyone have to run these daft low pressures ? i'm getting on it takes more energy to peddle ,never felt the need for "extra" grip ! also i have two bikes which are tubeless ready, the tyres that came with them are nearly impossible to get off ! i had to use two screw drivers to break the bead free not good if you are miles from home ,have since found the utterly brilliant vittoria terrano dry tyres which go on and off no bother ,so i'll be sticking with bog standard tubes and tyres
We all struggle first time with tubeless, however since setting them up in one year I've had one flat, no ldea why cos when I pumped it up it stayed up. I still carry a spare tube just in case
useful (as always) but i’m sticking to inner tubes - not sold on tubeless at all.
I’m failing to see any advantage of tubless.
I think I'll stick with inner tubes. I don't want to fight with my tires.
Have to say I'm yet to be convinced that going tubeless is the way to go...