When lion batteries are left too long in a discharged state, tiny crystals start to form and pierce the insulation between the membranes and cause a partial short circuit, this causes them to not hold a charge. Once crystals have formed the batteries become to dangerous to use, and if charged slowly low current to revive them (they may seem ok) but they can have a catastrophic meltdown when in use if the crystals touch internal adjacent sections inside the cell membranes. I read about this on the battery university website!
Yup, lithium ion can be very bad. LiPoFe much better. This is why every cell has a mosfet connected to the positive terminal. Normally the mosfet is turned on, and the cell is connected to the outside world. If the internal voltage drops too low the mosfet that is kept switched on by the cell will turn off, and once off it is locked out. This is a safety feature to prevent charging. The only solution is to replace the cells that have gone south.
Found two old cells that were at below 2 Volt and I could charge them up just fine and they work just fine now. Manufacturer's want you to buy a new pack and make the BMS lock up completely when one cell goes under the bottom margin. Because they want to make money. These cells can be charged with low current, and you can then immediately see if they are actually shorted or not.
Only time I tried a few methods to revive lit-ion packs as one of them I had to test was completely dead and frozen due to the temperature was too cold as it was in a Samsung tablet left in the attic belonging to a customer so how I managed to get it to work again is warming up the battery pack on a radiator for at least 15 mins to release the lock state of the cells and tinkle charge it using a external charger that is suitable for 3.7v and max charge 4.2v and steadily charge it to 3.2v then put it back into the Samsung tablet to get it turn on and let charge fully. The same external charger I used for jump starting the Nintendo switch joycon battery since it was assumed dead due to no voltage present. This fixes that issue. Now looking at him jump starting the battery with sparks makes me cringe surely he didn't take into account what the battery pack actual overall voltage than stuffing maximum voltage from a adjustable power supply thinking it would work is a bad idea overall
Where I worked they had these rather expensive 150AH 12V lithium batteries, their test battery had gone below minimum and shut down, so they tossed it onto the scrap battery pallet. So I grabbed it and noticed a reset button, that's all it needed, best score I've had in ages.
In case you wondered those are all the helical scan formats in order. 3/4" Umatic, Betacam / Betamax, 8mm (u loading) VHS (m loading). 8mm (m loading) and DAT.
If you ever get one of these again, disconnect the pack if possible, when not in use. The cells on their own can last years without draining much, it's the connected poorly designed or faulty circuitry that brings them down to 0.
Question. So if you decide to buy one of these things, when you get it, is there a manufactured date on it?? How does Mr. consumer know how long said unit has been on the shelf?
My Sony HMZ-T3W HMD goggles were not charged for over 12 months and now they are a paper weight as the battery is no longer available and it's a "Sony" special battery. :(
just trickle charge the cells back to 3.6v, it's the bms that's shutting you out. you can recover 18650s that go below 3v, it's reverse charging that's dangerous.
The pack was charged for 15mins, but quickly dropped when disconnected. At least one cell is not recoverable. If I saw correctly the pack was charged directly, bypassing the BMS (if there was any).
Heck if it has a pure sine wave 12 volt to 120 volt ac power inverter built in, id salvage that out of it as well as the fan and the charging power supply.
Obviously these devices have a drain on the battery as I don't have this issue with batteries from my older laptop that I leave out of the laptop. Also model RC lipo batteries with no device connected still holding 60% store charge after 2 years.
I don't buy electronics very often (even though I'd love to) but I picked up a 70MAI dashcam maybe 6 months or a year ago. It's alright. Pic quality is great but I don't like that emergency recordings don't seem to save the previous clip/file like my cheap cam did.
I don't buy much in terms of electronics either. I do need a new laptop though. Mines so long in the tooth i can't even get email on it anymore. None of the email clients will connect.
Its a shame, i agree when they dtop to low its safer to call it a day. Years ago i had some 18650 one stayed at 4.1 volts and several hours later, because the charger wouldn't switch of, i could smell burning it was so hot, so looky there was no fire. Bringing these cells to life is very dangerous and deffently a bin job
That is because you need to use a power supply with a constant voltage and current. Set your CV to 4.1V and the CC to 0,5A. You should see the voltage very slowly rise. Because you set the CV to 4,1V (90% state of charge of a lipo) the cell will not overcharge or get hot.
I bet it is not a physical disability but rather an electronic one. What I mean is if the battery is somehow shocked to be able to product a voltage above what the unit expects, then the unit will probably start to function. Just a guess. Literally 0 experience with them.
I tried to bring the pack up, however I was not going to tear into the cells individually. Have no interest into getting that deep into something I was just going to dispose of anyway.
Hopefully we'll get some better battery technology. Really don't like batteries in things that don't absolutely need them. Allegedly there's a technology coming to out-do the LiOn.
Nothing wrong with lithium. My 12volt has over 200,000 miles and the battery is fine. Sure the engine runs more often as it does cell balance but even burning a bit of gas my MPG is still over 80,
What bout the ones causing fires (salt water, humidity etc...) ? What about the huge price to replace them 10 years after ? What about the environmental cost of lithium mining and battery production ? What about the fact that currently the grid in most places is feed by fossil energy most of the time anyway which considering the number of energy conversions will get more losses than if the cars were run directly by fossil fuels ? List goes on... I like the idea, but the technology is not up to it yet.
10 years? Hmmm mine is 13 years old hasn't skipped a beat. As for fires there has only been a few when batteries have been damaged. Lots of fake news out there by the anti ev morons. Here our electricity is hydro and nuclear. Even in areas where it is fuel based it's still cleaner than burning it in your car. Remember all the energy and pollution to extract, process and then deliver to the gas station. As to batteries when cars are wrecked 95% of the minerals and elements in the battery are recovered to make new batteries. I use 1 to 2 tanks of fuel a year and my wife 6 tanks a year. Rest is 100% electric. First car paid for itself in 7 years and second will pay for itself in another 2 or 3. That's in savings compared to my old cars.
@@12voltvids I'd be interested in an EV if I had a big solar panel array on the countryside, even then I'd be worried about mileage... I think you're underestimating the losses on the grid. By the way, regarding pollution cars have so much filters nowadays that the particles from the tires pollute much more than the exhausts in terms of particles.
Well that isn't going to happen. He decided to gut it and rip out the 110 18650 cells in it for other applications. Said there was evidence that it had been dropped and there was burn marks on a few cells. Sent me some pictures.
So if you buy one of these and you dont get a powercut for a year they end up knackered, what a great idea these things are. planned obsolescence at it absolute finest.
@@12voltvids You've said how dangerous it is to charge dead Li-ion batteries and I will confirm that! When they explode millions of hot shrapnel will shoot out and you'll never find them all, keep a fire extinguisher ready
If present, the BMS in lithium battery packs will frequently cut off everything if 1 or more cells are below the threshold voltage of the board. If you can get past the BMS, balancing each cell to 3V will usually bring them back. Tests on my Cadex C7400ER-C battery analyzer often show 90+ percent capacity. The internal resistance may be slightly higher, but usually get lower again after a few cycles. Sorry that one didn't work out for you. It says a lot about the quality of the cells the manufacturer used in that prototype. Higher quality (or different lithium chemistry) cells would have likely recovered.
I read about a tesla owner that parked in long term storage at airport and had permission to keep his car plugged in to keep the battery from over discharge. After it had been parked for a week some new maintenence person was cleaning the lot and unplugged the car. It sat for 5 months and was completely dead, and unresponsive (this was the tesla roadster) requiring a 80,000 battery.
Yes this one could be left plugged in. That's the best way to store them as the BMS can turn the charger on every so often to keep the cells happy and turn on cooling fans as needed to keep the temperature where it needs to be.
So basically what you are say is power cells are junk. You are better off just rotating the gas in the garage through use in your car or lawn equipment. Be sure the gas generator is BONE DRY of gas, has good oil and it will sit for many years, waiting for fuel and to be ran. Yea run it once a year, change the oil, but that is alot better than throwing the whole unit away when it is needed. Also, the gas gen can be readily fixed if it does jack. Plus, if it goes dry, refill it.
@@12voltvids Can your power cell get free power from the sun? Additional parts needed I think. If it is used regular, got some panels and such, love it. If your looking for backup power for outages, a propane fired gen set is the best bet.
Mr Carlson can fix it but it would take a 3 hour lecture before the work is done. Then when he is done expect the condescending attitude from him that he directs towards everyone.
When lion batteries are left too long in a discharged state, tiny crystals start to form and pierce the insulation between the membranes and cause a partial short circuit, this causes them to not hold a charge. Once crystals have formed the batteries become to dangerous to use, and if charged slowly low current to revive them (they may seem ok) but they can have a catastrophic meltdown when in use if the crystals touch internal adjacent sections inside the cell membranes. I read about this on the battery university website!
Yup, lithium ion can be very bad. LiPoFe much better. This is why every cell has a mosfet connected to the positive terminal. Normally the mosfet is turned on, and the cell is connected to the outside world. If the internal voltage drops too low the mosfet that is kept switched on by the cell will turn off, and once off it is locked out.
This is a safety feature to prevent charging. The only solution is to replace the cells that have gone south.
Found two old cells that were at below 2 Volt and I could charge them up just fine and they work just fine now. Manufacturer's want you to buy a new pack and make the BMS lock up completely when one cell goes under the bottom margin. Because they want to make money. These cells can be charged with low current, and you can then immediately see if they are actually shorted or not.
Only time I tried a few methods to revive lit-ion packs as one of them I had to test was completely dead and frozen due to the temperature was too cold as it was in a Samsung tablet left in the attic belonging to a customer so how I managed to get it to work again is warming up the battery pack on a radiator for at least 15 mins to release the lock state of the cells and tinkle charge it using a external charger that is suitable for 3.7v and max charge 4.2v and steadily charge it to 3.2v then put it back into the Samsung tablet to get it turn on and let charge fully. The same external charger I used for jump starting the Nintendo switch joycon battery since it was assumed dead due to no voltage present. This fixes that issue. Now looking at him jump starting the battery with sparks makes me cringe surely he didn't take into account what the battery pack actual overall voltage than stuffing maximum voltage from a adjustable power supply thinking it would work is a bad idea overall
Where I worked they had these rather expensive 150AH 12V lithium batteries, their test battery had gone below minimum and shut down, so they tossed it onto the scrap battery pallet. So I grabbed it and noticed a reset button, that's all it needed, best score I've had in ages.
Thats how I got my air compressor. Found it in recycle bin. Just the motor reset button had popped. Pressed the button and all good.
there's something satisfying about watching all those tapes thread up in the intro
In case you wondered those are all the helical scan formats in order. 3/4" Umatic, Betacam / Betamax, 8mm (u loading) VHS (m loading). 8mm (m loading) and DAT.
If you ever get one of these again, disconnect the pack if possible, when not in use. The cells on their own can last years without draining much, it's the connected poorly designed or faulty circuitry that brings them down to 0.
These power stations have a small drain as they need to stay alive so you can power them up.
Does the same apply to Lithium Phosphate batteries?
Probably.
Question. So if you decide to buy one of these things, when you get it, is there a manufactured date on it?? How does Mr. consumer know how long said unit has been on the shelf?
The one I just reviewed was made Dec 12 23.
My Sony HMZ-T3W HMD goggles were not charged for over 12 months and now they are a paper weight as the battery is no longer available and it's a "Sony" special battery. :(
Yip
just trickle charge the cells back to 3.6v, it's the bms that's shutting you out. you can recover 18650s that go below 3v, it's reverse charging that's dangerous.
I gave it away and the guy that has it now has a bunch of cell balance equipment as he plays around with model aircraft and drones.
The pack was charged for 15mins, but quickly dropped when disconnected. At least one cell is not recoverable.
If I saw correctly the pack was charged directly, bypassing the BMS (if there was any).
Heck if it has a pure sine wave 12 volt to 120 volt ac power inverter built in, id salvage that out of it as well as the fan and the charging power supply.
It's scrap now. Gave it away guy I gave it to salvaged the cells. Didn't even attempt to repair.
Obviously these devices have a drain on the battery as I don't have this issue with batteries from my older laptop that I leave out of the laptop. Also model RC lipo batteries with no device connected still holding 60% store charge after 2 years.
Yes they have a tiny drain to keep the microprocessor running. It's minimal but over 2 years it drained the cells.
I’ll take it off your hands if your buddy doesn’t want it, Dave
Already gone
I don't buy electronics very often (even though I'd love to) but I picked up a 70MAI dashcam maybe 6 months or a year ago.
It's alright. Pic quality is great but I don't like that emergency recordings don't seem to save the previous clip/file like my cheap cam did.
I don't buy much in terms of electronics either. I do need a new laptop though. Mines so long in the tooth i can't even get email on it anymore. None of the email clients will connect.
Its a shame, i agree when they dtop to low its safer to call it a day. Years ago i had some 18650 one stayed at 4.1 volts and several hours later, because the charger wouldn't switch of, i could smell burning it was so hot, so looky there was no fire. Bringing these cells to life is very dangerous and deffently a bin job
I got rid of it.
That is because you need to use a power supply with a constant voltage and current.
Set your CV to 4.1V and the CC to 0,5A. You should see the voltage very slowly rise.
Because you set the CV to 4,1V (90% state of charge of a lipo) the cell will not overcharge or get hot.
I bet it is not a physical disability but rather an electronic one. What I mean is if the battery is somehow shocked to be able to product a voltage above what the unit expects, then the unit will probably start to function. Just a guess. Literally 0 experience with them.
I tried to bring the pack up, however I was not going to tear into the cells individually. Have no interest into getting that deep into something I was just going to dispose of anyway.
Hopefully we'll get some better battery technology. Really don't like batteries in things that don't absolutely need them. Allegedly there's a technology coming to out-do the LiOn.
Nothing wrong with lithium. My 12volt has over 200,000 miles and the battery is fine. Sure the engine runs more often as it does cell balance but even burning a bit of gas my MPG is still over 80,
What bout the ones causing fires (salt water, humidity etc...) ? What about the huge price to replace them 10 years after ? What about the environmental cost of lithium mining and battery production ? What about the fact that currently the grid in most places is feed by fossil energy most of the time anyway which considering the number of energy conversions will get more losses than if the cars were run directly by fossil fuels ? List goes on... I like the idea, but the technology is not up to it yet.
10 years? Hmmm mine is 13 years old hasn't skipped a beat. As for fires there has only been a few when batteries have been damaged. Lots of fake news out there by the anti ev morons. Here our electricity is hydro and nuclear. Even in areas where it is fuel based it's still cleaner than burning it in your car. Remember all the energy and pollution to extract, process and then deliver to the gas station. As to batteries when cars are wrecked 95% of the minerals and elements in the battery are recovered to make new batteries. I use 1 to 2 tanks of fuel a year and my wife 6 tanks a year. Rest is 100% electric. First car paid for itself in 7 years and second will pay for itself in another 2 or 3. That's in savings compared to my old cars.
@@12voltvids
I'd be interested in an EV if I had a big solar panel array on the countryside, even then I'd be worried about mileage...
I think you're underestimating the losses on the grid. By the way, regarding pollution cars have so much filters nowadays that the particles from the tires pollute much more than the exhausts in terms of particles.
i reckon its just the BMS has shut down and needs waking up
It's gone now.
Just wake up each cell instead wasting everybody's time!
Settle down mr. Angry pants
Not my problem.
What is your buddies channel? Would love to see him attempt to fix it. Please.
Well that isn't going to happen. He decided to gut it and rip out the 110 18650 cells in it for other applications. Said there was evidence that it had been dropped and there was burn marks on a few cells. Sent me some pictures.
So if you buy one of these and you dont get a powercut for a year they end up knackered, what a great idea these things are. planned obsolescence at it absolute finest.
Just plug in every 6 months. Or leave them plugged in all the time. I use one as a ups. Never turned off been running years.
Company seems to be still selling these $1099.00 What a deal MAI tera 1000
I have sold a few of the samples sent to me. The one I let sit and it went dead I gave away. The guy I have it to gutted it for all the batteries.
@@12voltvids You've said how dangerous it is to charge dead Li-ion batteries and I will confirm that!
When they explode millions of hot shrapnel will shoot out and you'll never find them all, keep a fire extinguisher ready
If present, the BMS in lithium battery packs will frequently cut off everything if 1 or more cells are below the threshold voltage of the board. If you can get past the BMS, balancing each cell to 3V will usually bring them back. Tests on my Cadex C7400ER-C battery analyzer often show 90+ percent capacity. The internal resistance may be slightly higher, but usually get lower again after a few cycles. Sorry that one didn't work out for you. It says a lot about the quality of the cells the manufacturer used in that prototype. Higher quality (or different lithium chemistry) cells would have likely recovered.
I read about a tesla owner that parked in long term storage at airport and had permission to keep his car plugged in to keep the battery from over discharge. After it had been parked for a week some new maintenence person was cleaning the lot and unplugged the car. It sat for 5 months and was completely dead, and unresponsive (this was the tesla roadster) requiring a 80,000 battery.
You could turn it into a toaster; it kind of looks like one. 😏
What about the ones that's supposedly able to be plugged in at all times? I don't do that, but the instructions say I can
Yes this one could be left plugged in. That's the best way to store them as the BMS can turn the charger on every so often to keep the cells happy and turn on cooling fans as needed to keep the temperature where it needs to be.
So basically what you are say is power cells are junk. You are better off just rotating the gas in the garage through use in your car or lawn equipment. Be sure the gas generator is BONE DRY of gas, has good oil and it will sit for many years, waiting for fuel and to be ran. Yea run it once a year, change the oil, but that is alot better than throwing the whole unit away when it is needed. Also, the gas gen can be readily fixed if it does jack. Plus, if it goes dry, refill it.
But can your gas generator get free power from the sun?
@@12voltvids Can your power cell get free power from the sun? Additional parts needed I think. If it is used regular, got some panels and such, love it. If your looking for backup power for outages, a propane fired gen set is the best bet.
Mr. Carlson can fix it !!
So could I if I really want to, but I don't so I am tossing it.
or mike, (mikes electrical stuff) or dave (eevblog) or clive (bigclive) or juilan ilett or .... lol
Mr Carlson can fix it but it would take a 3 hour lecture before the work is done. Then when he is done expect the condescending attitude from him that he directs towards everyone.
My Carson is like Mr burns and no big Clive wouldn't try.
Thumbs up for the picquic
Best screwdriver ever