Let me pin a comment as to clear some things up I agree with the comments that Zaolzie, Lwow, and Vilnius were majority-Polish, but the narrative of the video is about Poland working with Ukraine, Czechoslovakia, and Lithuania, rather than taking their claimed lands. As I said in the video, Lithuania wanted Vilnius for themselves as they wanted it to be their new capital city. When Poland took it, this soured relations between the two up until the end of WW2. Same with Czechoslovakia as the Poles were hostile to them and didn't want to help them in 1938. The video is about Poland being slightly smarter and making allies, instead of enemies. It is UNREALISTIC, but I think it's a cool concept and the Munich Conference could have looked a lot different
Also when I said "Polish minority" I was referring to the whole province, not just the city. Lwow was majority Polish, but not the entire claimed province.
@@rewriting-historyGenerally I agree with everything ib your comment, but when Lviv area (Galicia east of San) indeed was Ukrainian, Vilnius area was overwhelmingly Polish and Jewish, with little to no Lithuanians at the time.
@@rewriting-history We took Galicia as it was OUR land and the stupid Ukrainian leader basically fucked his nation when Poles were helping them during the Bolshevik invasion. The first plan was to liberate Ukraine and for it to become an ally of Poland, not our fault that they couldn't think properly. We had heated relations with Czechoslovaks for years so no help from them. Lithuania doesn't change a single thing and it would be better off if the Commonwealth was revived
There are many mistakes: -zaolzie was disputed since the end of WW1, there was even a refferendum to who they want to join and people chose Poland by a wide margin, then Czechs attacked to reclaim region which was theirs since like 600 years against the will of its people -lyiv and Vilnus weren't a minoroty, they were majority, in vilnus I believe around 90% and lyiv + the surrounding areas around 80% if I remember correctly -Poland literally tried to make Ukrainian ally? Thats kinda the reason for the first push to Kiev, Piłsucki made an agreement with a Ukrainian politician, Poland was supposted to push to Kiev and said politician would raise a ukrinian army to help liberate rest of the Ukrainian lands, it failed however beacuse by the time Poles got there Ukrainian communists got a lot of support to USSR, leading to too small army to liberate Ukraine and forcing Poland to retreat all the way to Warsaw Also, it wouldn't stop the partition, at best it would slow it down a little but not enouth to make a difference, sorry but this is one of your worst videos in terms of research
@lukaskg8024 I am not a youtuber and prefer to make full statements to avoid any confusion, while it is not for average viewer its more of critisism towards the creator to help him avoid such mistakes in the future
well Poland tried to make Ukraine a ally when Ukrainian army was already heavily defeated by bolsheviks and poles. if poles didnt invaded western Ukraine Ukraine had more chances to defeat bolsheviks because Ukrainian Galician army was stronger than army of Ukrainian People's Republic
@@bezdarnostmapping true, the geopolitical landscape in eastern europe simply didn't allow for Ukrainian state with border conflict with Poland to the west and Soviet reconquests to the east, a shame, really but nothing we can do about it other than learn, and what do we learn? When in a war against many great powers dont push for 20,000 small independent states, not only will it drain millions of your soldiers from the other powers but cause a domino effect of even more deaths in said states
More than 2/3 of Lviv were Poles, Vilnus was nearly all Polish. Poles weren't safe there, during the "I volhynian massacre" around 2000 Poles were killed, and lithuanians wanted to forcefuly lithuanize Poles in Vilnus. Since II Polish Commonwealth recognised itself as the continuation of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth they clamed the right to it's lands that were forcefully taken from them. Poland took as much land as it could, still failing to secure a lot of Poles. Because of this, hundreds of thousands of Poles were killed or forcefully deported to Siberia by the Soviets. Later when the Polish state was destroyed, even more poles were killed by the Soviets, Lithuania started to forcefully Lithuanize Poles and around 100 000 Poles were killed by Ukrainians in 1943-44. Also Poland wanted to create Belarussian and Ukrainian states that would rely on Poland for defence against Russia, separating Poland from Russia and ensuring the safety of Poles therem but because bad negotation and Polish inabilty to fully defeat Russia it didn't work out. Taking Zaolzie was dumb for Poland to do, since it helped germany, but it should be mentioned that it was mostly Polish and Czechia took it from Poland during the Polish-Bolshewik war around the time of the battle of Warsaw.
@bezdarnostmapping it might have been, but there were Polish and Ukrainian settlements mixed all over the region, which made setting just border impossible. In some places, there was more Poles near the Styr river than near the Bug river.
Unless the French army actually had balls and idk just marched straight to berlin while the german army was busy fighting poland and it's allies. The UK might also be able to properly mobilise it's superior navy to prevent any major german landings in norway.
@rewriting-history You don't get it. Even if we didn't take Zaolzie we wouldn't have a united front against Czechoslovakia. We had really heated relations and we were even fighting a couple of times. Lithuania doesn't change jackshit and wouldn't help at all either way
Idea for your 3rd series. Franco Prussian War is won by Francewith help of Ausria. Prussia forms alliance with Russia and Britain and Italy. France allies with Austria-Hungary, Ottomans and Southern German states. A World War starts in Balkans with Russia invading Ottomans. Austria helps Ottomans. Prussia attacks Austria-Hungary leading to France attack Prussia. Britain and Italy waits but joins Prussia side and win.
@@jellyfishmapping What bullcrap are you even talking about. It's time for your ukraine propaganda to crash into wall. Józef Piłsudski during polish soviet war in 1919 wanted even to create a Ukraine state to help Poles fight the Soviets. But guess what, literally nobody wanted to create an independent state of Ukraine, for them it sounded like a joke, so Poles simply integrated these lands into their administration (just at their always were). I might need to remind you, that Lwów was polish since Poland was formed as a country in 10th centuary. During 20 th centuary no one even thought of creating Ukraine, no one really felt as Ukrainian. That's the realy truth.
I love the main point of this video which many commenters clearly missed. A lot of comments under this video really illustrate how badly we teach history when we teach it from the national perspective only. Guys, it’s really easy to always illustrate how this or that city or piece of land belonged to your beloved nation because there was long history of this and that, and this or that census showed this or that, and this dynasty held it for x years. But your neighbours will have many other examples, often conflicting, and they are all right and wrong at the same time. Because history was messy and humanity was messy, borders changed, people mingled, exchanged culture, spoke multiple languages and adapted to political/cultural changes. There were no clear national lines on the map and national allegiancies developed and were forced on people. But I’d hope that by 21st century, the point shouldn’t be to descend into these nationalistic feuds, but instead to work together in the interest of all. Luckily, in the 21st century, for the first time in European history, we have institutions that allow us to work together. And that I take to be the ultimate point of this video: back in the 20th century, it would have been so much better if these countries worked together but it was simply impossible because the institutions for this were lacking and different countries were not able to reconcile their little interests and views of themselves. We shall learn from this, I hope?
The cities in occupied lithuania and ukraine were a big majority polish, especially Lwów and Wilno. Also, keeping friendly relations with the neighbour to the east was not a real option, to say the least - same thing was with germany The only disputed claim which really mattered was zaolzie, as czech-polish cooperation might have actually led to a different result of the german eastern campaign Also, during the polish-bolshevik war the idea originally WAS to create a friendly ukrainian state, which did not work due to the incompetence of the ukrainian ruler chosen for the region
@Olexso So Ukraine fell to the bolsheviks not because their ruler was incompetent, but because they disliked being a puppet state(which they werent lol)?
Yes, minority, except for like one Lviv, that doesn't means Poland should've taken the whole region just because of one city. Don't know anything about Lithuania tho.
@oneartftw there were also a lot of poles around Lwów, in Tarnopol and Stanisławów, which were cities. Also whole Vilinius area was Polish, still many poles lived in proper Lithuania too,
@@oneartftw Poles were majority in all 3 biggest cities in eastern galicia. (Alongside Jews) and in countryside they made around 10~30% of the population. so it wasn't just one city.
What if Germany and Poland teamed up against the Soviet Union in 1939. This could’ve worked if Poland offered Germany some of its western territory in exchange for parts of Ukraine and Belarus.
Hitler had distain for slavs, i do not thing it would have worked in the long run. He did not even do the much more logical thing, creating a free Ukraine, which would have most likely won him the war.
Germany only wanted free city of Gdańsk, not even whole canal, they offered an alliance in spring of 1939 but Poland rejected, later Germany signed Ribbentrop Molotov pact
@@rewriting-historyFirst of all, the czechoslovaks were the ones to ilegally occupy Zaolzie in 1920 during the Polish-Soviet war, and they weren't happy about Hungarians aiding us with ammo. Second of all, the Ukrainians weren't a majority in the Lwów and Stanisławów regions. The cities were mostly Polish, and it might be true that the rural areas were controled by ukrainians, but their population still, was a significant minority. Vilno was not invaded by Poles, it was captured by the Lithuanian Poles and Lithuanians that disagreed with goverment to create central Lithuania that later in the referendum decided to join, if I'm correct. The reason why we didn't had any allies was quite simple. Czechoslovakia aimed for war against germany, while Poland tried an appeasement tactic, by signing non agression pact and trying to improve relations with Germany. Piłsudzki aimed for getting as much time as possible by improving relations with Germans so they could prepare for any surprise. The video puts us kind of in a bad light, I guess.
@@tencosiezastanawiap2992 if im not wrong the reason for czech occupation was that it was czech land for like 600 years. also lwow was like split about evenly until the mass deportation campaign the poles did against ukrainian and belarusian minorities. tbh i think they got what was coming to them at that time, if you get all your neighbors to hate you, you will always be targeted in any war.
Alr, lets begin on the misunderstandings/lies. 1. Lwow and Vilnius were documented to be majority Polish. Vilnius was planned by Lithuania to be its capital due to it's historical claims but more importantly the fact that the city was well developed compared to lithuanian majority ones like Kaunas. It was at first in the hands of the lits but then captured by the Soviets and then the Poles after peace between Lithuania and the Soviets had been established. The reason it isnt now is due to Soviet and Lithuanian programs to rid of the Poles or Lithuaniafy them Lwow was majority polish, with only the regions surrounding it being Ukrainian Majority. The reason it is more ukrainian today is the tragic genocide by the UPA and Ukrainian Collaborationists in it to 'Ukrainiafy' and once the war was over, the relocation of the few poles still left. (Also attempts to help ukraine were made by the Poles but due to nationalistic and then unexperiencer leadership of the Ukranians, little could be done) 2. Zaolzie matter. Hostilities ran before it got taken as the land was infact taken by the Czechs during the Polish Soviet war when Poland looked destined to lose. Zaolzie then was majority polish speaking and voted to be part of Poland That and the overall distrust of the two governments between eachother for valid reasons (Czech Betrayal, Sanacja Government being an authoritarian party) made cooperation of a grander scale impossible Extra: Inconsistency. Why wasnt the Belarussian land also regiven? They were in a pretty similar state as Ukraine at the time, why is their help and alliance less important? Why not give Germany the Gdynian Coast? Thats Poland being 'less aggressive', right?
haha... having 2-5% Lithuanians in Vilinus and more than 50% (I think 60%) Poles makes Polish people a minority... right. The idea of peaceful Poland is good but it wouldn't work , if Poland gave away Lviv to Ukraine , Ukraine would still fall like right then Polish people would just hate the government. Same with Lithuania and Czechoslovakia like Polish situation was just too hard to solve. You couldn't make a strong Polish nation , you couldn't make a federation and you couldn't do a pacifist run if you want people to respect you
No it fucking wouldn't. The Allies betrayed us period, Czechoslovakia would do nothing either way because of hostilities even before the occupation of Zaolzie. And still in my opinion Lithuanians were wussies and we should've just restored the Commonwealth
i feel like that would have been stupid for the lithuanians to do, as they would not be equals like before, since the polish were the vast majority in the region. wouldn't you agree?
@@karelkieslich6772 You didn't read the comment, our Allies betrayed us. They had an empty road to Berlin, we didn't destroy Czechoslovakia, they didn't even let them join the negotiations. Only world where Poland survives is the world where Chamberlain doesn't exist
All of former Galicia and Lodomeria woudl go to Poland no matter what you'd say Wołyń woudl stay Ukrainian. Grodno and Nowogródek woudl also remain in Polish hands. Rest of Western Belarus woudl reveive autonomy. Also no way we woudl let Ukrainians have Lwów at that point in history, you dingus.
Polonia tomó Zalsoice por un tratado con los checos, donde sí Alemania atacaba a Checoslovaquia, Polonia debería ocupar una estación de tren en la zona para evitar que los alemanes la tomarán, lo que en teoría llevaría a Alemania en guerra con Polonia
I don't think Lithuania, Ukraine, or Czechoslovakia would have helped Poland at all, since none of those countries were independent or capable of doing anything when Poland was overrun.
There were non-Polish territories in that state, namely Polesie, Nowohradok and East-South Galicia, but your examples (being Lviv and Vilnus) were *actually* very Polish and to exemplify how, I can say that in Vilnus and Lviv there were more Jews than Lithuanians* and Ukrainians respectively. *Lithuanians were at the time divided into 2 groups: "Old Lithuanians" who spoke Polish, claimed to be "Lithuanian and Polish" and wanted united Polish-Lithuanian state, and "Young Lithuanians", who rejected the idea od Polishness and wanted to create independent Lithuania. In Vilnius area the first group of people lived, and these by far identified with Poland more than Lithuania (they mostly still do to this day), Lithuanians ("young") constituated 3% of Vilnius population.
poland would had not lost the 1939 campaign if the polish delegation in riga wasnt full of nationalists that wanted the poles to maintain an majority population instead of forming piłsudski's federation
You forgot about Belarus, you know there’s such nation and we were divided between Poles and Soviets, not only Ukrainians, or maybe for being noticed we need aggressive invasion as Ukraine?
@ don’t say the things you don’t know, would you say that Ukraine was too prorussian? You know Soviets strangled our independence in 1918 and just killed all our cultural revival same as in Ukraine, but now everyone knows about Ukraine because of the war
@ Belarus was such pro russian as Ukraine in those times, the situation which we have now with prorussian government wasn’t the same always and if the government is prorussian that doesn’t mean the country is prorussian
Also if Western countries don't support the White Army then Bolsheviks could agree with UK for Curzon line and probably the policy of self-determination would work. USSR "could" have policy towards Poland similar towards Czechoslovakia to defend against N@zi Germany, but Poland will continue act hostile toward Soviets or neutral. 😐🤨
Wtf Romania friend with Poland maybe but Molotov Ribentrop pact two countryies are faced by superpower worse for Poland But today Poland is richer than Romania but Romania doesn't have on both sides enemies for that time only Soviet who did terrifying thing to Romania My dad said me when German military enter in Romania for passing to Frontline on Ukraine(Soviet union operation Barbarossa) German going to people paying to people or asking for donations for German military forces if you have a pig or sheep food or steal everything German thankful aggred with Romanian people just a patient people who are going on Frontline When red army from Soviet union enter Soviets steall everything from Romanian people everything if people want to rebel its over you going to be shot with no graveyard ready or just will burn you down for sacrifice evidence to keep but there is people who knows and people say when you know much the probably you faster die Similar to Poland but reverse no no red army doesn't just sttealed but make worse to people killing their family
Disfo video that fails to even mention the 1921 treaty of Riga setting the pre WW2 eastern Polish border that was criminally violated 1939. Northeastern arm of Poland subjected to massive ethnic cleaning. Also so with area to the further east, Stalin NKVD ethnic cleansing.
Lwów i Wilno...... We had a majority populatio in these cities and Chechoslovakia occupied Zaolzie illegaly! They stole it from Poland using the Polish-Bolshevik war to won the referendum.
So Poland wasn't supposed to attempt to achieve greater Poland but instead help their neighbor and competitor achieve greater ukraine? Seems extreme altruistic at best and foolish at worst.
Agressive policy of Poland ?? Hahaha I can’t. Poland defend young independence after 1918, Poland had enemies everywhere: on the east and west. Who attacked Poland in 1920 ? USSR and Czechoslovakia! Czechoslovakia used right moment to attack Poland behind back when USSR was close to Warsaw. Poland was divided because of agressive policy of USSR and III Reich !!! Learn history
This is the main problem of the Poles. They, constantly chasing after illusory power, do not understand that control of the land does not mean support of the population.
Which is mostly bullshit throughout our history lmfao. The main problem is backstabbing, pussy allies which always betray us. Fucking Nazi's were more honourable as Allies or the German Empire.
![⭐️( ลอยกระทง 2024 ) Ver. แดนซ์ Remix BY [ ดีเจกิต รีมิกซ์ ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rMWOLhgXUHc/mqdefault.jpg)
Let me pin a comment as to clear some things up
I agree with the comments that Zaolzie, Lwow, and Vilnius were majority-Polish, but the narrative of the video is about Poland working with Ukraine, Czechoslovakia, and Lithuania, rather than taking their claimed lands.
As I said in the video, Lithuania wanted Vilnius for themselves as they wanted it to be their new capital city. When Poland took it, this soured relations between the two up until the end of WW2. Same with Czechoslovakia as the Poles were hostile to them and didn't want to help them in 1938.
The video is about Poland being slightly smarter and making allies, instead of enemies. It is UNREALISTIC, but I think it's a cool concept and the Munich Conference could have looked a lot different
Also when I said "Polish minority" I was referring to the whole province, not just the city. Lwow was majority Polish, but not the entire claimed province.
@@rewriting-historyGenerally I agree with everything ib your comment, but when Lviv area (Galicia east of San) indeed was Ukrainian, Vilnius area was overwhelmingly Polish and Jewish, with little to no Lithuanians at the time.
@@rewriting-history We took Galicia as it was OUR land and the stupid Ukrainian leader basically fucked his nation when Poles were helping them during the Bolshevik invasion. The first plan was to liberate Ukraine and for it to become an ally of Poland, not our fault that they couldn't think properly.
We had heated relations with Czechoslovaks for years so no help from them.
Lithuania doesn't change a single thing and it would be better off if the Commonwealth was revived
@@rewriting-history it's Lviv, not Lwow, you didn't call Vilnius Wilno.
Poles weren't a minority in Lviv, they were the majority
no they weren't the majority was Ukrainian
Documented info says otherwise
@@jellyfishmappingpoles were 60%
@@aronax6140 source? mine is wikipedia
Then give Danzig back, it was a majority German city before your communist friends from Russia took it from us
There are many mistakes:
-zaolzie was disputed since the end of WW1, there was even a refferendum to who they want to join and people chose Poland by a wide margin, then Czechs attacked to reclaim region which was theirs since like 600 years against the will of its people
-lyiv and Vilnus weren't a minoroty, they were majority, in vilnus I believe around 90% and lyiv + the surrounding areas around 80% if I remember correctly
-Poland literally tried to make Ukrainian ally? Thats kinda the reason for the first push to Kiev, Piłsucki made an agreement with a Ukrainian politician, Poland was supposted to push to Kiev and said politician would raise a ukrinian army to help liberate rest of the Ukrainian lands, it failed however beacuse by the time Poles got there Ukrainian communists got a lot of support to USSR, leading to too small army to liberate Ukraine and forcing Poland to retreat all the way to Warsaw
Also, it wouldn't stop the partition, at best it would slow it down a little but not enouth to make a difference, sorry but this is one of your worst videos in terms of research
Good work put into detail, but too long for the average viewer. Better to do it in a video.
poles was majority in Lviv but overall region had slightly more Ukrainians. (60% ukrainians and 40% poles and poland-speaking Jews)
@lukaskg8024 I am not a youtuber and prefer to make full statements to avoid any confusion, while it is not for average viewer its more of critisism towards the creator to help him avoid such mistakes in the future
well Poland tried to make Ukraine a ally when Ukrainian army was already heavily defeated by bolsheviks and poles. if poles didnt invaded western Ukraine Ukraine had more chances to defeat bolsheviks because Ukrainian Galician army was stronger than army of Ukrainian People's Republic
@@bezdarnostmapping true, the geopolitical landscape in eastern europe simply didn't allow for Ukrainian state with border conflict with Poland to the west and Soviet reconquests to the east, a shame, really but nothing we can do about it other than learn, and what do we learn? When in a war against many great powers dont push for 20,000 small independent states, not only will it drain millions of your soldiers from the other powers but cause a domino effect of even more deaths in said states
More than 2/3 of Lviv were Poles, Vilnus was nearly all Polish. Poles weren't safe there, during the "I volhynian massacre" around 2000 Poles were killed, and lithuanians wanted to forcefuly lithuanize Poles in Vilnus. Since II Polish Commonwealth recognised itself as the continuation of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth they clamed the right to it's lands that were forcefully taken from them. Poland took as much land as it could, still failing to secure a lot of Poles. Because of this, hundreds of thousands of Poles were killed or forcefully deported to Siberia by the Soviets. Later when the Polish state was destroyed, even more poles were killed by the Soviets, Lithuania started to forcefully Lithuanize Poles and around 100 000 Poles were killed by Ukrainians in 1943-44. Also Poland wanted to create Belarussian and Ukrainian states that would rely on Poland for defence against Russia, separating Poland from Russia and ensuring the safety of Poles therem but because bad negotation and Polish inabilty to fully defeat Russia it didn't work out. Taking Zaolzie was dumb for Poland to do, since it helped germany, but it should be mentioned that it was mostly Polish and Czechia took it from Poland during the Polish-Bolshewik war around the time of the battle of Warsaw.
Ukrainian was majority in region (60%)
@bezdarnostmapping it might have been, but there were Polish and Ukrainian settlements mixed all over the region, which made setting just border impossible. In some places, there was more Poles near the Styr river than near the Bug river.
*Lwów
We should have worked together against the Nazis instead of bickering over small border regions 🇨🇿 🇵🇱
My point
Its very industrial tho, don't call it just small border regions
Even if Poland wasnt as aggresive with its neighbours as in our timeline, Poland whould still be partitioned, so nothing really whould change
Yeah but their new allies would have delayed the full partition. Maybe not a lot but maybe a month or 2 longer
@@tautvydasjuska6769 Wouldn't change jackshit. If France did shit the war would be over in less than a month
Unless the French army actually had balls and idk just marched straight to berlin while the german army was busy fighting poland and it's allies. The UK might also be able to properly mobilise it's superior navy to prevent any major german landings in norway.
I wouldn't fully agree. If they have good relations with Czechoslovakia, the country may be saved in 1938 and in a war they can defeat Germany
@rewriting-history You don't get it. Even if we didn't take Zaolzie we wouldn't have a united front against Czechoslovakia. We had really heated relations and we were even fighting a couple of times. Lithuania doesn't change jackshit and wouldn't help at all either way
Idea for your 3rd series.
Franco Prussian War is won by Francewith help of Ausria. Prussia forms alliance with Russia and Britain and Italy. France allies with Austria-Hungary, Ottomans and Southern German states. A World War starts in Balkans with Russia invading Ottomans. Austria helps Ottomans. Prussia attacks Austria-Hungary leading to France attack Prussia. Britain and Italy waits but joins Prussia side and win.
France would never ally with Austria.
I guess it could happen under the right conditions though
@@Kerguelen.Mapping yea it a broken alliance
At the time of the Polish Ukrainian war 80% of the population in Lviv was Polish
no, that was after the war, when Poland deported hundreds of thousands Ukrainians to forced labour camps
What re you smoking it was never higher than 60%
@@jellyfishmapping even before the war lwów was majority polish
@@jellyfishmapping What bullcrap are you even talking about. It's time for your ukraine propaganda to crash into wall. Józef Piłsudski during polish soviet war in 1919 wanted even to create a Ukraine state to help Poles fight the Soviets. But guess what, literally nobody wanted to create an independent state of Ukraine, for them it sounded like a joke, so Poles simply integrated these lands into their administration (just at their always were). I might need to remind you, that Lwów was polish since Poland was formed as a country in 10th centuary. During 20 th centuary no one even thought of creating Ukraine, no one really felt as Ukrainian. That's the realy truth.
Are those labor camps in room with you rigth now? @jellyfishmapping
I love the main point of this video which many commenters clearly missed.
A lot of comments under this video really illustrate how badly we teach history when we teach it from the national perspective only. Guys, it’s really easy to always illustrate how this or that city or piece of land belonged to your beloved nation because there was long history of this and that, and this or that census showed this or that, and this dynasty held it for x years. But your neighbours will have many other examples, often conflicting, and they are all right and wrong at the same time. Because history was messy and humanity was messy, borders changed, people mingled, exchanged culture, spoke multiple languages and adapted to political/cultural changes. There were no clear national lines on the map and national allegiancies developed and were forced on people.
But I’d hope that by 21st century, the point shouldn’t be to descend into these nationalistic feuds, but instead to work together in the interest of all. Luckily, in the 21st century, for the first time in European history, we have institutions that allow us to work together. And that I take to be the ultimate point of this video: back in the 20th century, it would have been so much better if these countries worked together but it was simply impossible because the institutions for this were lacking and different countries were not able to reconcile their little interests and views of themselves. We shall learn from this, I hope?
They didn't take terrains with Polish minority. Zaolzie and Vilnus had Polish majority in the city and minority in the neighbouring country-side
The cities in occupied lithuania and ukraine were a big majority polish, especially Lwów and Wilno.
Also, keeping friendly relations with the neighbour to the east was not a real option, to say the least - same thing was with germany
The only disputed claim which really mattered was zaolzie, as czech-polish cooperation might have actually led to a different result of the german eastern campaign
Also, during the polish-bolshevik war the idea originally WAS to create a friendly ukrainian state, which did not work due to the incompetence of the ukrainian ruler chosen for the region
No, Petlura did a great job, it was Poles who wanted a more pupet state than independent Ukrainian state which was dislike by Ukrainians
Ukrainians we’re not happy about occupation
@Olexso So Ukraine fell to the bolsheviks not because their ruler was incompetent, but because they disliked being a puppet state(which they werent lol)?
Ukraine should claim more Polish lands, not Poland
So in other words the pols invaded russia it backfired and they got occupied
Polish minority? Are you joking
Yes, minority, except for like one Lviv, that doesn't means Poland should've taken the whole region just because of one city. Don't know anything about Lithuania tho.
@@oneartftwVilnius had 5% Lithuanians, besides Poles in Lwow were persecuted
@oneartftw there were also a lot of poles around Lwów, in Tarnopol and Stanisławów, which were cities. Also whole Vilinius area was Polish, still many poles lived in proper Lithuania too,
@@oneartftw Poles were majority in all 3 biggest cities in eastern galicia. (Alongside Jews) and in countryside they made around 10~30% of the population. so it wasn't just one city.
@@Mr.RadekkUkrainians still was majority in region (around 60%}
They did the "let's unite all the speaker of our language" thing before Germany. 😂
What if Germany and Poland teamed up against the Soviet Union in 1939. This could’ve worked if Poland offered Germany some of its western territory in exchange for parts of Ukraine and Belarus.
Hitler had distain for slavs, i do not thing it would have worked in the long run.
He did not even do the much more logical thing, creating a free Ukraine, which would have most likely won him the war.
Germany only wanted free city of Gdańsk, not even whole canal, they offered an alliance in spring of 1939 but Poland rejected, later Germany signed Ribbentrop Molotov pact
As a Pole, I'm kind of dissapointed about this video.
Why?
@@rewriting-historyFirst of all, the czechoslovaks were the ones to ilegally occupy Zaolzie in 1920 during the Polish-Soviet war, and they weren't happy about Hungarians aiding us with ammo. Second of all, the Ukrainians weren't a majority in the Lwów and Stanisławów regions. The cities were mostly Polish, and it might be true that the rural areas were controled by ukrainians, but their population still, was a significant minority. Vilno was not invaded by Poles, it was captured by the Lithuanian Poles and Lithuanians that disagreed with goverment to create central Lithuania that later in the referendum decided to join, if I'm correct. The reason why we didn't had any allies was quite simple. Czechoslovakia aimed for war against germany, while Poland tried an appeasement tactic, by signing non agression pact and trying to improve relations with Germany. Piłsudzki aimed for getting as much time as possible by improving relations with Germans so they could prepare for any surprise. The video puts us kind of in a bad light, I guess.
@@tencosiezastanawiap2992 if im not wrong the reason for czech occupation was that it was czech land for like 600 years. also lwow was like split about evenly until the mass deportation campaign the poles did against ukrainian and belarusian minorities. tbh i think they got what was coming to them at that time, if you get all your neighbors to hate you, you will always be targeted in any war.
Alr, lets begin on the misunderstandings/lies.
1. Lwow and Vilnius were documented to be majority Polish.
Vilnius was planned by Lithuania to be its capital due to it's historical claims but more importantly the fact that the city was well developed compared to lithuanian majority ones like Kaunas.
It was at first in the hands of the lits but then captured by the Soviets and then the Poles after peace between Lithuania and the Soviets had been established. The reason it isnt now is due to Soviet and Lithuanian programs to rid of the Poles or Lithuaniafy them
Lwow was majority polish, with only the regions surrounding it being Ukrainian Majority. The reason it is more ukrainian today is the tragic genocide by the UPA and Ukrainian Collaborationists in it to 'Ukrainiafy' and once the war was over, the relocation of the few poles still left.
(Also attempts to help ukraine were made by the Poles but due to nationalistic and then unexperiencer leadership of the Ukranians, little could be done)
2. Zaolzie matter.
Hostilities ran before it got taken as the land was infact taken by the Czechs during the Polish Soviet war when Poland looked destined to lose. Zaolzie then was majority polish speaking and voted to be part of Poland
That and the overall distrust of the two governments between eachother for valid reasons (Czech Betrayal, Sanacja Government being an authoritarian party) made cooperation of a grander scale impossible
Extra: Inconsistency.
Why wasnt the Belarussian land also regiven? They were in a pretty similar state as Ukraine at the time, why is their help and alliance less important?
Why not give Germany the Gdynian Coast? Thats Poland being 'less aggressive', right?
haha... having 2-5% Lithuanians in Vilinus and more than 50% (I think 60%) Poles makes Polish people a minority... right. The idea of peaceful Poland is good but it wouldn't work , if Poland gave away Lviv to Ukraine , Ukraine would still fall like right then Polish people would just hate the government. Same with Lithuania and Czechoslovakia like Polish situation was just too hard to solve. You couldn't make a strong Polish nation , you couldn't make a federation and you couldn't do a pacifist run if you want people to respect you
No it fucking wouldn't. The Allies betrayed us period, Czechoslovakia would do nothing either way because of hostilities even before the occupation of Zaolzie. And still in my opinion Lithuanians were wussies and we should've just restored the Commonwealth
i feel like that would have been stupid for the lithuanians to do, as they would not be equals like before, since the polish were the vast majority in the region. wouldn't you agree?
This just beautifully and sadly illustrates the point of the video
@@karelkieslich6772 You didn't read the comment, our Allies betrayed us. They had an empty road to Berlin, we didn't destroy Czechoslovakia, they didn't even let them join the negotiations. Only world where Poland survives is the world where Chamberlain doesn't exist
All of former Galicia and Lodomeria woudl go to Poland no matter what you'd say Wołyń woudl stay Ukrainian. Grodno and Nowogródek woudl also remain in Polish hands. Rest of Western Belarus woudl reveive autonomy. Also no way we woudl let Ukrainians have Lwów at that point in history, you dingus.
Least nationalist Pole
yeah i see why no one liked you in interwar period
@@bezdarnostmapping So we should be both Western and Russian puppet at the same time? No fucking way it's happening
This video greatly oversimplified the geopolitical situation of the time
Polonia tomó Zalsoice por un tratado con los checos, donde sí Alemania atacaba a Checoslovaquia, Polonia debería ocupar una estación de tren en la zona para evitar que los alemanes la tomarán, lo que en teoría llevaría a Alemania en guerra con Polonia
I don't think Lithuania, Ukraine, or Czechoslovakia would have helped Poland at all, since none of those countries were independent or capable of doing anything when Poland was overrun.
There were non-Polish territories in that state, namely Polesie, Nowohradok and East-South Galicia, but your examples (being Lviv and Vilnus) were *actually* very Polish and to exemplify how, I can say that in Vilnus and Lviv there were more Jews than Lithuanians* and Ukrainians respectively.
*Lithuanians were at the time divided into 2 groups: "Old Lithuanians" who spoke Polish, claimed to be "Lithuanian and Polish" and wanted united Polish-Lithuanian state, and "Young Lithuanians", who rejected the idea od Polishness and wanted to create independent Lithuania.
In Vilnius area the first group of people lived, and these by far identified with Poland more than Lithuania (they mostly still do to this day), Lithuanians ("young") constituated 3% of Vilnius population.
poland would had not lost the 1939 campaign if the polish delegation in riga wasnt full of nationalists that wanted the poles to maintain an majority population instead of forming piłsudski's federation
Zaolzie was occupied by Czechoslovakia while Poland was busy with the bolsheviks. It was just rightful reclamation.
You forgot about Belarus, you know there’s such nation and we were divided between Poles and Soviets, not only Ukrainians, or maybe for being noticed we need aggressive invasion as Ukraine?
True
Belarus was too pro Russian anyway. They never would have got them as an ally.
@ don’t say the things you don’t know, would you say that Ukraine was too prorussian? You know Soviets strangled our independence in 1918 and just killed all our cultural revival same as in Ukraine, but now everyone knows about Ukraine because of the war
@ Belarus was such pro russian as Ukraine in those times, the situation which we have now with prorussian government wasn’t the same always and if the government is prorussian that doesn’t mean the country is prorussian
Belarus has no history, they never had king or state before 1918
There was more poles in Lviw and Vilnus
I bet there was more jews than ukrainians in lviw
We didnt took Zaolzia, We had it and Czechs took it, later we retake it in 1938
Exactly, Czechoslovakia attacked Poland in 1920 when we fought against USSR
Polish majority you did mean i believe...
Did Belarusians not exist in early 1900’s?
Also if Western countries don't support the White Army then Bolsheviks could agree with UK for Curzon line and probably the policy of self-determination would work. USSR "could" have policy towards Poland similar towards Czechoslovakia to defend against N@zi Germany, but Poland will continue act hostile toward Soviets or neutral. 😐🤨
This video is a bit confusing
Wtf Romania friend with Poland maybe but Molotov Ribentrop pact two countryies are faced by superpower worse for Poland
But today Poland is richer than Romania but Romania doesn't have on both sides enemies for that time only Soviet who did terrifying thing to Romania
My dad said me when German military enter in Romania for passing to Frontline on Ukraine(Soviet union operation Barbarossa) German going to people paying to people or asking for donations for German military forces if you have a pig or sheep food or steal everything German thankful aggred with Romanian people just a patient people who are going on Frontline
When red army from Soviet union enter Soviets steall everything from Romanian people everything if people want to rebel its over you going to be shot with no graveyard ready or just will burn you down for sacrifice evidence to keep but there is people who knows and people say when you know much the probably you faster die
Similar to Poland but reverse no no red army doesn't just sttealed but make worse to people killing their family
Disfo video that fails to even mention the 1921 treaty of Riga setting the pre WW2 eastern Polish border that was criminally violated 1939.
Northeastern arm of Poland subjected to massive ethnic cleaning.
Also so with area to the further east, Stalin NKVD ethnic cleansing.
Lwów i Wilno......
We had a majority populatio in these cities and Chechoslovakia occupied Zaolzie illegaly! They stole it from Poland using the Polish-Bolshevik war to won the referendum.
So Poland wasn't supposed to attempt to achieve greater Poland but instead help their neighbor and competitor achieve greater ukraine? Seems extreme altruistic at best and foolish at worst.
i hve an idea some communist in asia and they try to unitify
asia
though i think it is unrealistic
@TejasSoma i think that you should unify with english courses
@@bulkax303 i speak English
but spellings are a problem for me
Hi
Agressive policy of Poland ?? Hahaha I can’t. Poland defend young independence after 1918, Poland had enemies everywhere: on the east and west. Who attacked Poland in 1920 ? USSR and Czechoslovakia! Czechoslovakia used right moment to attack Poland behind back when USSR was close to Warsaw. Poland was divided because of agressive policy of USSR and III Reich !!! Learn history
Polish nationalist detected
Do a series about it pls 🥺
I have no idea why you get so many views. Your history knowledge is mostly superficial.
Love your content ❤❤❤
This is the main problem of the Poles.
They, constantly chasing after illusory power, do not understand that control of the land does not mean support of the population.
what the fvck are you talking about jesse
only that the areas they occupied, such as Vilnius or Lviv, were cities in which the majority of the population were Poles
well that stament applies to almost all countries in central and eastern Europe
Which is mostly bullshit throughout our history lmfao. The main problem is backstabbing, pussy allies which always betray us. Fucking Nazi's were more honourable as Allies or the German Empire.
@@ZajeXD55 poles were majority in cities but overall Ukrainians was majority (60%)
First!
nobody cares bot!
Hi