Proxies Dropbox Download Link (you don't need an account or to request access - just click "continue with download only"): www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uctz7gmarefml4nrc7gx1/Universes-Within-SLD-Marvel_v2.pdf?rlkey=7xsmxztgplf9qo2l7by3yw4vw&st=y9f0jbnc&dl=0
Hello, I'm new in your channel, but I like what I see. A theme suggestion for the future: Now that WotC broke 2 promises last week, what's their excuse to keep the Reserved List promise now?
Wizard will keep doing this until people actually stop buying these. There is no shooting themselves in the foot if it makes them way more money. It's sad but that's the truth.
You are 100% right, but its also 100% not possible. There will always be players who dont get the idea of the boycott even if all content creators made a call to boycott it. Also there are the people who wanna make a business out of it and try to sell this limited product super high. So yeah its basically not possible. But maybe if we stop buying as much they will realise that its not the way
I say they do two waves, first wave where they sell what they’ve printed and then the following day for 24hrs they do print to order with slightly longer delivery times. They’d literally make more money idk why they’re not doing this
@C1umsyJester completely agree, they can do a initial "print to demand" for immediate shipping, then have a made to order period with a waiting period.
@@Lionheart40529 everyone wins, people aren’t pressured with fomo and can get their hands on the sets they want, scalpers don’t ruin the market, wizards makes more money by selling more and they don’t have the bad reputation for all the drama associated with this subject. It’s such an overwhelming win for everyone idk why it hasn’t been implemented, especially if random people online can think of it
The solution where everyone wins. Proxies. Let those that want to drop the real cash get the cards and those that don’t want to spend the money play with proxies. The secondary market doesn’t matter if you print your own cards.
That's piracy, you're no longer supporting the game and you're better off just getting out if you're not willing to buy cards anymore. The game has clearly changed in a negative way, and wizards doesn't care.
How can they be designing cards that you want to play AND not deserve it at the same time? It’s one or the other bud. I am frustrated with them too, so I will not buy or play with these cards, simple as that. Makes for better games not playing expensive busted cards anyway, and I don’t resort to piracy. Saying they don’t deserve it after creating a product you really want is hypocrisy though
@@snowmanO07I never wanted this product, as I'm super burnt out on MCU shenanigans... but I understand the frustration and pain of those who do. In the end, if you REALLY want to play those cards, I won't blame for using their proxies, if anything I'm just going to commend you for your counterfeit card's quality being better than Hasbro's.
@@patmacrotch5611 It does exist. You just don't have to deal with it. Welcome to your little privileged bubble. If you see someone stealing food, no the fuck you didn't.
i waited in line for 3 hrs, and before my queue even ran out it was sold out. and what annoys me more is that alot of the people just bought it to resell it
Did you know there was a way to skip the line and go directly to cart? I found out after there was a method and that's why our queue time started to extend.
Yup same didn’t get into the payment till 3pm and I was in queue on my phone at 9:03am and my PC at 9:06am and walked away with nothing…. The worst part is that around 11ish I looked up the cards and they were on sale on eBay for fucking 300$ straight up a fucking joke! I hope no one buys a single one from those scalpers and just PROXY!!! PLZ JUST PROXY DO NOT BUY FROM THESE DIRT BAD SCALPERS!
Scalpers will ruin everything for others unfortunately. Sadly scalpers are the reason why Wizards made Secret Lairs limited run in the first place. They don't care if people buy extra just to resell as they got the money in the first place. All they care is numbers not where the lairs go afterwards. These scumbags buy what they can to prey on those who couldn't get the lair due to school or work or just got screwed over by the bad queue system who are desperate enough to buy the real cards. The only way to change it back to print to demand is for us to stop buying them but even if we don't scalpers will hoover them up and slap them online with massive markups anyway until a sucker buys them. This is why we proxy people? Commander is casual format so who cares? Screw over Wizards and scalpers with a printer and ink.
Fun thing about proxying or printing is not only can you have whatever card you want you can get them before they’re released. My friends and I have been playing our marvel decks for almost 2 weeks now 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️ no re-prints? No worries.
Conspiracy theory time: You know that the bot storms who bought everything and was 'magically' pushed to the front of the queue? WotC buying their own product and selling on secondary markets at 2-4x the original buy rate. Doesn't matter if you preordered, now you have to go buy on the secondary market. 3x the profit on the push, easily done. (how did the bots jump the queue?)
Apparently, there was a bug in the system where people found out if they added the extra life lair in the hour before marvel drops went live, they could go to their checkout and be put in the queue before it was open to the public...then they'd just add the marvel lairs after their turn showed up. That's why people were instantly waiting 3+ hrs when they thought they were first in line. They weren't.
The Promo actually really irritates me. Thing was in my cart when I checked out and I checked out 10 minutes before they sold out but when they finally emailed my invoice it wasn't there.
Something that everyone seems to miss is that the top investors and shareholders at wizards, are the top shareholder and investors in most card reselling sites. They aren’t leaving any money on the table and this is way more profitable for them as they get to double dip. Once on the initial sale and then again on massively inflated reselling.
Only reason it wasn't the fastest sale of Secret lairs is that they broke the website for 2 hours. Frankly there are only 2 ways I can see Wizards fixing this particular run: 1 - Do a second run of it, giving folks a second, or even third chance to buy them. 2 - Release the unique cards in the Spiderman Set in a similar 'List' slot. And going forward have i don't know 10,000 or whatever number they think they will need of them already set up to ship immediately, then print to demand for any others. And frankly speaking I hate the release time they use, I work an 8-6 eastern shift, so I am in the middle of my work day when the lair drops, so if I don't have the day off I miss out, and then have to pay through the nose to get my hands on them, and that is not fair to me as a loyal customer, because you know folks are running multiple computers with maxed out carts for resale, whereas I only want the one bundle to play with. (Karlach was a rare exception where I wanted the shiny version, and it was cheaper to get the base normal version in her bundle as well.)
Just got my hi-res proxies printed in high quality adhesive paper to put over some junk commons. The thickness feels just like foil cards. Each sheet was around 2 USD. 2 USD for 20 cards. Honestly i will never buy cards again.
You should buddy, I've been proxying for about 3 to 4 years now. Even started making my own about a year ago now. If you need a few pointers, hit me up.
I propose a boycott: no one buys ANY Secret lairs until they change it back to print on demand, because this is bull*hit! I waited in line as soon as the secret lair was up, and when I finally got to the end of the queue, there was NOTHING left! I only wanted a single wolverine secret lair! The only way I can get it now is buying the cards separately for about 80-100 € each, since the queue skippers and scouters are now selling them with f**ked up mark up prices!
This is a show of force shown by Hasbro to its shareholders by demonstrating its power over its captive market. They see themselves entitled to their customers' money and have no emotion towards them other than open contempt.
In my opinion, make the foils a limited print run and the non foils made to order. That way everyone can get them, plus there is still the demand for the rarer foil cards.
I'm done with Wizards man... There should not be any mechanicaly unique universes beyond. Period. These business practices are absolute shit. I'm half tempted to just sell off my collection and proxy going forward.
Imagine throwing a tantrum because a company announced a very limited run of a very high demand product and the limited run of high demand product sold out fast.
They need to just open a to-demand print run, ships whenever. Plus add a non foil arcane signet in the non foil bundle, the foil one in the foil bundle, and then have the 200 promo foil.
Serialized Pre-printed that sells exactly how they did this SLD. Keep scaracity, holds value and rapid shipping. Non-Serialized Print-to-Demand, makes sure all who want it get it, non-serialized holds less value, has longer shipping times. Collectors get their shiny thing, Scalpers get their fix and players can actually get some cards...
WOTC decided a finite cap of how much money they wanted to make from this with a limited print, they hit that target so they can only look at this as an absolute win. Don’t like limited prints? Don’t buy the product, use your wallets to show you don’t support this and please above all else, don’t pay marked up prices to scalpers
Knowing they are going to sell out immediately implies pissing off customers is part of the business strategy. They are probably selling directly to stores/resellers and allowing individuals to buy leftover stock once that hits, but not saying that’s the case. The fact that they identified secondary market prices is a huge shift in policy.
They aren’t doing this. There were 2 exploits that they took advantage of and there was nothing stopping people from using bots to start multiple carts. Many of these resellers likely cheated to get these.
This is a marketing strategy by both Marvel and WOTC. Wizards wants people to have fomo and Marvel wants people to think they are still relevant so if they print less it makes them both look more appealing. I would bet printing less was a mutual strategy.
Wife got up at 4am Australian time to attempt to purchase the Secret Lair for my Xmas present. Logged in within minutes of it opening and was still in queue almost three hours later, when I found out I told her I appreciated the effort but log out. Last Secret Lair we’ll attempt, now committing to proxies instead (sad when you want to support companies legit but almost punished for doing so)
What pisses me off is that they make you wait in line just to find out that there's nothing left. I checked out about 1 min after the drop went live and waited in line for 4.5 hrs by which time there was practically nothing left. I don't know why they can't tell you directly "you're too late" instead of putting you in a ridiculous queue.
Their system was broken. I go on the web site at the time it's opening, take what I want, go to check out, wait in line and then when the line is finish it just recent me to the lobby. Like why is it making a circle?
My whole issue for Secret Lairs is it is anti anyone outside of the US - down here in Australia they are always sold out before I wake on the day of a release
I was all for official support but now, after being kicked out of my check out at 12:02 i'll just pay someone to make a nice fake for me for a fraction of the price now. Not even going to bother buying products any more.
Placed the attempt to order, waited for a hour and a half for my turn in the queue, get through the queue to find an empty cart and what I waited for be sold out. This will be the first in deck proxies set of cards I'll ever own and have made.
I was one of the lucky people that was able to place an order. I checked with my friends before the sale to see who wanted one of the lairs then ordered their requests in my order to maximize the chances of each person getting the one they wanted. I had my order in my cart and ready to check out within 30 seconds of the sale going live and still had to wait almost three hours to check out. I'm very upset that I don't get the arcane signet though. Wizards could have easily printed enough signets to account for the amount of people buying at least $200.
It’s like they want to force us to proxy. I would have happily given them $500 for these cards, instead I’ll print them. Thanks wizards, you made a bot buying contest for the secondhand market.
I agree, everyone just. Complaining all the time but they will be there when spiderman drops, they are making there cards valuable and I am here for it, plus I got an extra storm anyone wanna buy it?
those who circumvented the queue, or otherwise exploited the system should have their orders canceled. Give those signet bonus cards to the ones who followed the rules. After that, put all the orders that were canceled back up for sale.
I was in a queue for 3hrs and was hoping for Foil Storm and Wolverine. It told me I was up next, but then I find my cart empty and those two were temporarily unavailable. Later they were sold out. I love the X-Men, so that sucked for me. If you were able to get who you wanted congrats. My buddy was able to snag Iron Man. Hopefully, they print more later, but I'm bummed out for now, so I'm gonna take a Magic break for awhile. Have fun planeswalkers.
The problem is that for every person who stops buying directly from them, there is a scalper and their bot army ready to take their place. So that won't work because even if the scalper can't sell Wotc won't nor can't feel it.
19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1
Sorry guys, being cold here, for wizards this is a huuuge success, they sold everything, it is a product with very inflated price and direct sales. And they push this harder since the marketing keeps accepting predatory tactics
Fr. A very limited but very high demand item sold out very fast and people are throwing tantrums over it. It's almost as annoying as the time they banned Mana Crypt, and those other cards.
We're at a place in this world and economy to allow anyone to use a proxy version of these rights? Hell, make it look even cooler for all I care. It's a game and a piece of cardboard. It really doesn't need to be shuffled since it's a commander. I hate these so much!
Why is it that we blame WOTC for people doing wrong to other people 🤔 ??? In my opinion people need better standards. Those people who did skip the virtual line knows that other people were waiting but they did it anyway
SL’s become a joke. it was easter eggs and fun things for the fans and commander players, now a secondary market gold mine. really should go back to the on sale for x days and then just print and ship
the thing i found most jarring was coming to an empty cart with no explanation. id rather wait in a queue that then lets me shop vs add to cart and then go to the queue. similar to how it would work in a physical establishment
The fact that they announced that it not getting a magic universe version what after or just before? Either way that was a real slap in the customers face
To investors selling out really quick is a good thing, for other companies they want to collaborate with selling out fast is a good thing. They are not in business for people's feelings or making people happy they are in business for money. Selling out in 5 hours looks better than not selling out at all. If they made it to print to order and it wouldn't sell out. I'm not agreeing with how they did it that's just the nature of the beast in business especially when it's not your IP.
It's sad to say but, it genuinely delights me that this was such a disaster, not that I feared it wouldn't be. I've never heard of a single person who has had a good experience buying secret lairs.
I love that your go to is alwasy "Proxy it" But not all LGS' allow people to proxy. I havent been to one that lets you outside of the occasional cedh tournament and even then its limited to one or two
They should have made it at least a 3 day sale... print to demand for 3 days.. or even 24 hours... Out of all of the other print on demand sets of secret lair... This should have been one...
WOTC need to print more but more needs to be done to make it harder for scalpers. Even with more prints it just means more copy's for scalpers to get ahead of everyone even content creators. They are a real problem.
I've been a big fighter against proxy'ing, but after this, fuck it, I'll proxy any card I need... This whole ordeal was a scam, a manipulation of your customers, you don't deserve our money anymore
I was in line for almost 3 hours for the foil storm bundle. I didn’t even get it because it sold out . I ended up at least being able to get the non foil set.
I know I'm just one person but I can't be the only person. I used to buy lairs pretty regularly. Haven't bought one in a long time. Recently tried to order one that I felt was too good to pass up but supposedly it sold out in an hour or two. How much are they losing from customers like me. How many people can't just sit there online waiting for it to go live. Give us 24 hours at least.
I think I am the only one that’s not upset about this. Does it stock that not everyone was able to get something? For sure, BUT this was known that this was going to sell quick and that it would be a gamble. I talked to many friends who have put knew some who had issues with buying secret liars mostly back when walking dead dropped. Soo I went into it expecting that I was not going to get something especially when the site crashed. Also the fact that i reached at 3 second dropped something in my car and got check out maybe 8 seconds total and still took I think 3.5 hrs. Even getting a confirmation of my order based on the stories I’ve heard I’m not garnering i actually got this until it’s in my mailbox. Listen its sucks. People finding ways to cut the line, dealing with secondary markets but bulk amount to re-sell at high price and even groups of people working together so if one of the buddies who was lucky to be towards the front of line bought for them and all there friends who were further back in the line. I think thats just the reality and people just need to have that expectation and not her high hopes so you’re not pissed of when it doesn’t go your way.
I added the foil wolverine and non-foil storm to my cart, went to checkout and saw the queue. I put my debit card away and saved $90! I’m not waiting for hours so that I can GIVE MY MONEY to wizards
Hate to break it to anyone who isn't aware of buying behavior, but the sensation of missing out, the perception of scarcity, the anger associated with an uncertain and "high stakes" purchasing experience... those are all WAY more powerful emotions that will drive you to buy more vigorously in the future than if you'd had a pleasant and hassle-free buying experience. This is intended. This is by design. WotC is THRILLED with the current results. It is exactly what they wanted. They want people starved for more UB because it feeds directly into the metric they want to promote as their vision forward. They can take this metric to future UB prospects and say, "Look, this is how fiercely competitive we can make your IP within context of our game. This is the kind of exposure we can cultivate." And they're right btw, like.. I'm not saying WotC will be wrong in stating that. If people want this kind of product, and they want it this badly, then you can expect this sort of thing to continue. A highly competitive and limited quantity sale that dries up immediately isn't bad press, it isn't bad news, it isn't a bad look. That's a hole-in-one.
If wotc limited to 1 set/person it would have been fair. But people hoarded this product to resell, and thats quite sad, since we are talking about a game. Im out of mtg from 2 months and i am not regretting that
I was extremely lucky in getting my order processed without having to resort to being a scumbag and didn’t get my cart booted before I could check out. I will be using real copies of the cards when I make decks around them, but for anyone who got screwed over by the bots, line cutters, and most significantly Hasbro’s greed, I say proxy the s-t out of them! Over the course of time, I have become far more friendly to people playing with proxies, and at this point I’m on the full proxy-train. I wasn’t even screwed over, and I’m still upset that other actual players couldn’t just buy the damn cards. So get those printers warmed up, because of WotC won’t treat their customers right then there’s no reason to respect their business. I’m not going to stop supporting my LGS, but I’m not going to look down on anyone who feels like they can’t give WotC any more money.
i was so upset by that drop, i got the street fighter secret lair drop with no problem...but the marvel drop was ridiculous, the wait time bar barely didn't move before i was hit with a list of sold out cards while i was still in "line" waiting online on the website....it was terrible, secret was trash for that....guess i'll be doing proxies for these, screw it, wayyyy cheaper any way
I usually have good luck with the secret lairs- I did my usual thing- put it in my cart and waited in the queue for HOURS. Non foil set was sold out. 😢So I am going to proxy.
I think the problem with this secret lair was the crash or que pausing. Other than that its the same as any other limited print run. If u missed out its unfortunate but it is what it is. Proxy it.
It wasn't until this superdrop that I secret lairs were typically expected to be reprints with unique art. This having new cards that were unique really puts a bad taste in my mouth for any future products
Wait in the line just to be sold out. They should of limit one per person because scalpers got them and now they are selling them for $150 or more online now.
I love how WOTC are endorsing Proxies more and more. First by reprinting proxies themselves with Magic 30 (disgusting product) and then allowing these kind of things to happen. From now my cards above 5$ will be from Proxies of the Coast.
I feeling so sorry for everyone who wanted these who didn't get them. Those of us who were lucky enough are far too few, do fucking PRINT TO DEMAND wizards!
"Look, we throw a lot of fancy words in front of these kids in order to attract them to going to the LGS in the belief that they're gonna have a better life, and we know that all were doing is breeding a whole new generation of buyers and sellers, BUYERS AND SELLERS!"
Magic should just make a marvel set and make people buy packs and pull them. Let people waste hundreds or even thousands of dollars to get these cards instead of buying a set for $50. F the collectors. F the players. F the scalpers. They’d probably make a lot more money.
All you gotta do is pay the price the scalpers want then claim you never received the product then you get them for free hurt the resellers for hurting you
Secret Lair has always felt like a mistake to me. As is Universes Beyond. WOTC wants to get in on every fandom and hype train they can with no care of how the game looks, feels, and is played. Commander is the focus, other formats are suffering, and according to reports MTG isn't even bringing in the money for them enough anymore. Making Marvel releases is the first hammer strike to put a nail in the coffin, because people have been calling considering the game the Disney/Fortnite shill since March of the Machines with the cringe Avengers style text and theme.
I was able to get a non foil bundle, i waited only 2 1/2 hours, 2 of my friends waited for almost 3 1/2 to get individual drops. I'm guessing the longer wait times were on the individual drops then the bundles. This whole debacle is disgusting and if anybody thinks differently your deluding yourself because this was done intentionally
I’m so disappointed, I used my last vacation time to make sure I wouldn’t miss it that day. i was on the site before it was even time just to make sure I would be ready, ended up waiting almost 4 hours and ended up with nothing because everything I had wanted sold out
I've only been playing for two years, but even I've noticed how bad WotC has been nosediving. Decisions have been increasingly bad, to the point that it's making it hard to want to stay in the game. If I do stay, I'll likely just switch entirely to proxies. I can't afford all this product, nor in good conscience support a company that's so open about exploiting its customers. The only people I feel bad for are the game store owners who are caught in the middle.
They just keep proving over and over again they do not care what their community says or wants. They only care about the numbers on the quarterly reports
I liked secret lairs, but this last one has burned me out of buying them. And at this point I'm probably done buying mtg cards entirely. I have enough and ill just play casual games with friends, this is too expensive of a hobby at this point.
When I first started playing I wasn’t a fan of proxy cards as it felt like it makes the experience pulling the chase card less special but this secret layer bs has made me want to proxy all my cards wizards is the new EA to me and it’s sad
I was in line 4min after sale launch (could have been faster but I got errors trying to get into shopping cart), waited over 4 hours and only got 3 to choose from.
It really was a shit show. I was in the checkout line roughly within sometime between 5-15 seconds of the orders opening and I waited 2 1/2 hours to checkout, and when I had 2 minutes remaining they had sold out of the promo card. I mean say what you want about it being a limited drop in the first place or the entire checkout system being trash, but how do you not print enough of the promo cards you promised people would get if they spent $200 to not only not meet the demand of the print run, but not enough make it like halfway through. I mean you know exactly what your inventory is of the drops and what they cost, you can easily figure out how many promos you needed. I would understand the additional scarcity if it was like an optional add-on, but they gave it away for free. All you’re doing is creating another way to let down your customers and a reason for people to be pissed. Its ridiculous.
Proxies Dropbox Download Link (you don't need an account or to request access - just click "continue with download only"):
www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uctz7gmarefml4nrc7gx1/Universes-Within-SLD-Marvel_v2.pdf?rlkey=7xsmxztgplf9qo2l7by3yw4vw&st=y9f0jbnc&dl=0
I'll never buy another secret lair. It was a complete joke. Wasted my time just to get booted when I was mid purchase.
Hello, I'm new in your channel, but I like what I see.
A theme suggestion for the future: Now that WotC broke 2 promises last week, what's their excuse to keep the Reserved List promise now?
Wizard will keep doing this until people actually stop buying these. There is no shooting themselves in the foot if it makes them way more money. It's sad but that's the truth.
You are 100% right, but its also 100% not possible. There will always be players who dont get the idea of the boycott even if all content creators made a call to boycott it. Also there are the people who wanna make a business out of it and try to sell this limited product super high. So yeah its basically not possible. But maybe if we stop buying as much they will realise that its not the way
This right here you be speaking facts
How are they even sold out when they have all the ink and cardboard? Methinks they'll release more since there's demand.
People won't stop buying these because scalpers will buy these all the time.
The only way to stop that is to stop buying scalped products
@@robertpatterson4357 that literally never happens, no they wont.
Print MADE TO ORDER! How is that such a taboo concept.
I say they do two waves, first wave where they sell what they’ve printed and then the following day for 24hrs they do print to order with slightly longer delivery times. They’d literally make more money idk why they’re not doing this
@C1umsyJester completely agree, they can do a initial "print to demand" for immediate shipping, then have a made to order period with a waiting period.
@@Lionheart40529 everyone wins, people aren’t pressured with fomo and can get their hands on the sets they want, scalpers don’t ruin the market, wizards makes more money by selling more and they don’t have the bad reputation for all the drama associated with this subject. It’s such an overwhelming win for everyone idk why it hasn’t been implemented, especially if random people online can think of it
Because your convenience doesn't spend.
Because they tried that already and people didn’t buy enough.
The solution where everyone wins. Proxies. Let those that want to drop the real cash get the cards and those that don’t want to spend the money play with proxies. The secondary market doesn’t matter if you print your own cards.
WotC showed everyone that proxies are legit with their 30th Anniversary product.
@guyfrostdesire heck, you can probably get better quality printing it yourself lol
😂😂😂
That's piracy, you're no longer supporting the game and you're better off just getting out if you're not willing to buy cards anymore. The game has clearly changed in a negative way, and wizards doesn't care.
You do realize people arent able to buy the cards due to speculaters who inflate the price not a great take.@Arctanis-vt3hl
Just. Proxy. EVERYTHING! Don't give Hasbro any of your hard earned money, because right now they don't effin' deserve it.
How can they be designing cards that you want to play AND not deserve it at the same time? It’s one or the other bud. I am frustrated with them too, so I will not buy or play with these cards, simple as that. Makes for better games not playing expensive busted cards anyway, and I don’t resort to piracy. Saying they don’t deserve it after creating a product you really want is hypocrisy though
@@snowmanO07I never wanted this product, as I'm super burnt out on MCU shenanigans... but I understand the frustration and pain of those who do. In the end, if you REALLY want to play those cards, I won't blame for using their proxies, if anything I'm just going to commend you for your counterfeit card's quality being better than Hasbro's.
It’s crazy how this mind set doesn’t work in any other industry what so ever… don’t like prices at grocery? Just steal groceries! 😂😂
@@patmacrotch5611 It does exist. You just don't have to deal with it. Welcome to your little privileged bubble. If you see someone stealing food, no the fuck you didn't.
Proxy, proxy, proxy! 🎶
Any proxy. Sharpie on a basic land -> to .99:1 replica (it's never 100% due to scanning/blue core center). Do not reward wizards of the coast.
i waited in line for 3 hrs, and before my queue even ran out it was sold out. and what annoys me more is that alot of the people just bought it to resell it
oh no. anyways
Did you know there was a way to skip the line and go directly to cart? I found out after there was a method and that's why our queue time started to extend.
Yup same didn’t get into the payment till 3pm and I was in queue on my phone at 9:03am and my PC at 9:06am and walked away with nothing….
The worst part is that around 11ish I looked up the cards and they were on sale on eBay for fucking 300$ straight up a fucking joke!
I hope no one buys a single one from those scalpers and just PROXY!!! PLZ JUST PROXY DO NOT BUY FROM THESE DIRT BAD SCALPERS!
@@jake3922I wish I knew…
Scalpers will ruin everything for others unfortunately. Sadly scalpers are the reason why Wizards made Secret Lairs limited run in the first place. They don't care if people buy extra just to resell as they got the money in the first place. All they care is numbers not where the lairs go afterwards. These scumbags buy what they can to prey on those who couldn't get the lair due to school or work or just got screwed over by the bad queue system who are desperate enough to buy the real cards. The only way to change it back to print to demand is for us to stop buying them but even if we don't scalpers will hoover them up and slap them online with massive markups anyway until a sucker buys them.
This is why we proxy people? Commander is casual format so who cares? Screw over Wizards and scalpers with a printer and ink.
Fun thing about proxying or printing is not only can you have whatever card you want you can get them before they’re released. My friends and I have been playing our marvel decks for almost 2 weeks now 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️ no re-prints? No worries.
Conspiracy theory time: You know that the bot storms who bought everything and was 'magically' pushed to the front of the queue? WotC buying their own product and selling on secondary markets at 2-4x the original buy rate. Doesn't matter if you preordered, now you have to go buy on the secondary market. 3x the profit on the push, easily done. (how did the bots jump the queue?)
No, that's not happening. That would draw the eyes of the SEC.
LGS and the finance community are just leeches.
Apparently, there was a bug in the system where people found out if they added the extra life lair in the hour before marvel drops went live, they could go to their checkout and be put in the queue before it was open to the public...then they'd just add the marvel lairs after their turn showed up. That's why people were instantly waiting 3+ hrs when they thought they were first in line. They weren't.
The Promo actually really irritates me. Thing was in my cart when I checked out and I checked out 10 minutes before they sold out but when they finally emailed my invoice it wasn't there.
that sounds really rough for you - at least your cart wasn't empty once u got thru the queue
At least the promo is just an arcane signet. Other than the marvel art, you’re not losing out on anything big.
Same thing happened to me as well
Something that everyone seems to miss is that the top investors and shareholders at wizards, are the top shareholder and investors in most card reselling sites. They aren’t leaving any money on the table and this is way more profitable for them as they get to double dip. Once on the initial sale and then again on massively inflated reselling.
Only reason it wasn't the fastest sale of Secret lairs is that they broke the website for 2 hours.
Frankly there are only 2 ways I can see Wizards fixing this particular run:
1 - Do a second run of it, giving folks a second, or even third chance to buy them.
2 - Release the unique cards in the Spiderman Set in a similar 'List' slot.
And going forward have i don't know 10,000 or whatever number they think they will need of them already set up to ship immediately, then print to demand for any others.
And frankly speaking I hate the release time they use, I work an 8-6 eastern shift, so I am in the middle of my work day when the lair drops, so if I don't have the day off I miss out, and then have to pay through the nose to get my hands on them, and that is not fair to me as a loyal customer, because you know folks are running multiple computers with maxed out carts for resale, whereas I only want the one bundle to play with. (Karlach was a rare exception where I wanted the shiny version, and it was cheaper to get the base normal version in her bundle as well.)
You could proxy them instead of rewarding Hasbro for this behaviour
Just got my hi-res proxies printed in high quality adhesive paper to put over some junk commons. The thickness feels just like foil cards. Each sheet was around 2 USD. 2 USD for 20 cards. Honestly i will never buy cards again.
Where from and can they do foils??
Got kicked out of the queue when waiting to buy this so fuck Wizards I'm proxying everything. They're not getting my money again
You should buddy, I've been proxying for about 3 to 4 years now. Even started making my own about a year ago now. If you need a few pointers, hit me up.
I propose a boycott: no one buys ANY Secret lairs until they change it back to print on demand, because this is bull*hit! I waited in line as soon as the secret lair was up, and when I finally got to the end of the queue, there was NOTHING left! I only wanted a single wolverine secret lair! The only way I can get it now is buying the cards separately for about 80-100 € each, since the queue skippers and scouters are now selling them with f**ked up mark up prices!
Yeah, good luck with that. Not enough people are going to boycott for it to matter, they’ll still sell out.
That's not going to work. It never works. Proxy, print your own replica cards. Seize the means of production.
Lol, you want people to boycott because a super popular and in demand product sold out 😂
This is a show of force shown by Hasbro to its shareholders by demonstrating its power over its captive market. They see themselves entitled to their customers' money and have no emotion towards them other than open contempt.
In my opinion, make the foils a limited print run and the non foils made to order. That way everyone can get them, plus there is still the demand for the rarer foil cards.
I haven’t bought a magic product in 2 years. I recommend y’all to do the same.
Haha. I never even tried. But I do have Proxies on their way! WotC needs to do better otherwise every card i buy will be Proxies from now on.
I'm done with Wizards man... There should not be any mechanicaly unique universes beyond. Period. These business practices are absolute shit. I'm half tempted to just sell off my collection and proxy going forward.
Imagine throwing a tantrum because a company announced a very limited run of a very high demand product and the limited run of high demand product sold out fast.
It’s definitely a bit on the nose/ironic that FOMO was just printed into Magic 😂
just made proxies of these sets at a fraction of the price and with no headaches.
They need to just open a to-demand print run, ships whenever. Plus add a non foil arcane signet in the non foil bundle, the foil one in the foil bundle, and then have the 200 promo foil.
Serialized Pre-printed that sells exactly how they did this SLD. Keep scaracity, holds value and rapid shipping.
Non-Serialized Print-to-Demand, makes sure all who want it get it, non-serialized holds less value, has longer shipping times.
Collectors get their shiny thing, Scalpers get their fix and players can actually get some cards...
Maybe just keep these Lairs a Secret and proxie?
Whats your thoughts on the TH-camrs who took part in spreading the exploit links, ruining many people's chances to get the cards
WOTC decided a finite cap of how much money they wanted to make from this with a limited print, they hit that target so they can only look at this as an absolute win. Don’t like limited prints? Don’t buy the product, use your wallets to show you don’t support this and please above all else, don’t pay marked up prices to scalpers
Knowing they are going to sell out immediately implies pissing off customers is part of the business strategy. They are probably selling directly to stores/resellers and allowing individuals to buy leftover stock once that hits, but not saying that’s the case. The fact that they identified secondary market prices is a huge shift in policy.
They aren’t doing this. There were 2 exploits that they took advantage of and there was nothing stopping people from using bots to start multiple carts. Many of these resellers likely cheated to get these.
Manufactured scarcity is wild.
This is a marketing strategy by both Marvel and WOTC. Wizards wants people to have fomo and Marvel wants people to think they are still relevant so if they print less it makes them both look more appealing. I would bet printing less was a mutual strategy.
Wife got up at 4am Australian time to attempt to purchase the Secret Lair for my Xmas present. Logged in within minutes of it opening and was still in queue almost three hours later, when I found out I told her I appreciated the effort but log out. Last Secret Lair we’ll attempt, now committing to proxies instead (sad when you want to support companies legit but almost punished for doing so)
What pisses me off is that they make you wait in line just to find out that there's nothing left. I checked out about 1 min after the drop went live and waited in line for 4.5 hrs by which time there was practically nothing left. I don't know why they can't tell you directly "you're too late" instead of putting you in a ridiculous queue.
I put it in my cart the second I could and had to wait about an hour and a half to get it. It's crazy
Their system was broken. I go on the web site at the time it's opening, take what I want, go to check out, wait in line and then when the line is finish it just recent me to the lobby. Like why is it making a circle?
My whole issue for Secret Lairs is it is anti anyone outside of the US - down here in Australia they are always sold out before I wake on the day of a release
I was all for official support but now, after being kicked out of my check out at 12:02 i'll just pay someone to make a nice fake for me for a fraction of the price now. Not even going to bother buying products any more.
Same, Hasbro constantly reminds us that proxies are morally correct
Placed the attempt to order, waited for a hour and a half for my turn in the queue, get through the queue to find an empty cart and what I waited for be sold out. This will be the first in deck proxies set of cards I'll ever own and have made.
I was one of the lucky people that was able to place an order. I checked with my friends before the sale to see who wanted one of the lairs then ordered their requests in my order to maximize the chances of each person getting the one they wanted. I had my order in my cart and ready to check out within 30 seconds of the sale going live and still had to wait almost three hours to check out. I'm very upset that I don't get the arcane signet though. Wizards could have easily printed enough signets to account for the amount of people buying at least $200.
Why UmI feel like this is getting worse every year?
Im going to rule 0 these out of my pods.
It’s like they want to force us to proxy. I would have happily given them $500 for these cards, instead I’ll print them. Thanks wizards, you made a bot buying contest for the secondhand market.
You know what tho, maybe the real Marvel Secret Lair were all the friends we made along the way 😉🌈🤗 🤪
I agree, everyone just. Complaining all the time but they will be there when spiderman drops, they are making there cards valuable and I am here for it, plus I got an extra storm anyone wanna buy it?
those who circumvented the queue, or otherwise exploited the system should have their orders canceled. Give those signet bonus cards to the ones who followed the rules. After that, put all the orders that were canceled back up for sale.
I was in a queue for 3hrs and was hoping for Foil Storm and Wolverine. It told me I was up next, but then I find my cart empty and those two were temporarily unavailable. Later they were sold out. I love the X-Men, so that sucked for me.
If you were able to get who you wanted congrats. My buddy was able to snag Iron Man.
Hopefully, they print more later, but I'm bummed out for now, so I'm gonna take a Magic break for awhile. Have fun planeswalkers.
Being part of the problem.
I think X-Men has a card game though, so you can still get it there.
The problem is that for every person who stops buying directly from them, there is a scalper and their bot army ready to take their place. So that won't work because even if the scalper can't sell Wotc won't nor can't feel it.
Sorry guys, being cold here, for wizards this is a huuuge success, they sold everything, it is a product with very inflated price and direct sales.
And they push this harder since the marketing keeps accepting predatory tactics
Fr. A very limited but very high demand item sold out very fast and people are throwing tantrums over it. It's almost as annoying as the time they banned Mana Crypt, and those other cards.
We're at a place in this world and economy to allow anyone to use a proxy version of these rights? Hell, make it look even cooler for all I care. It's a game and a piece of cardboard. It really doesn't need to be shuffled since it's a commander. I hate these so much!
There's a choice to make when making these products:
A) Print to demand/order.
B) Print to scalpers.
That's it. There's no middle ground.
Why is it that we blame WOTC for people doing wrong to other people 🤔 ???
In my opinion people need better standards. Those people who did skip the virtual line knows that other people were waiting but they did it anyway
Luckily I didn't care at all. Haven't purchased a single secret lair so far 😊
I think bro said “again” over 100 times in this video
SL’s become a joke. it was easter eggs and fun things for the fans and commander players, now a secondary market gold mine. really should go back to the on sale for x days and then just print and ship
I joined the line at 12h01 EST. Got to check out at 15h45 ish. I had a lone Storm non-foil in my cart. Sold out lol
Hasbro's perspective: Sold out in less than a day. People paid more money for a few cards than we charge for a collector pack. Well done, keep it up.
the thing i found most jarring was coming to an empty cart with no explanation. id rather wait in a queue that then lets me shop vs add to cart and then go to the queue. similar to how it would work in a physical establishment
I had zero wait ordering my much cheaper proxies, which also have amazing art instead of the dollar store claymation trash on official cards
stop buying secret lairs until they go back to the old model.
Stop buying MtG until they treat the players and customers better
Hasbro stock is down +5% today when the rest of the market is generally up. Big shock!
The fact that they announced that it not getting a magic universe version what after or just before? Either way that was a real slap in the customers face
To investors selling out really quick is a good thing, for other companies they want to collaborate with selling out fast is a good thing. They are not in business for people's feelings or making people happy they are in business for money. Selling out in 5 hours looks better than not selling out at all. If they made it to print to order and it wouldn't sell out. I'm not agreeing with how they did it that's just the nature of the beast in business especially when it's not your IP.
It's sad to say but, it genuinely delights me that this was such a disaster, not that I feared it wouldn't be. I've never heard of a single person who has had a good experience buying secret lairs.
WotC. That's what went wrong
I love that your go to is alwasy "Proxy it" But not all LGS' allow people to proxy. I havent been to one that lets you outside of the occasional cedh tournament and even then its limited to one or two
They should have made it at least a 3 day sale... print to demand for 3 days.. or even 24 hours...
Out of all of the other print on demand sets of secret lair...
This should have been one...
WOTC need to print more but more needs to be done to make it harder for scalpers. Even with more prints it just means more copy's for scalpers to get ahead of everyone even content creators. They are a real problem.
I've been a big fighter against proxy'ing, but after this, fuck it, I'll proxy any card I need... This whole ordeal was a scam, a manipulation of your customers, you don't deserve our money anymore
I was in line for almost 3 hours for the foil storm bundle. I didn’t even get it because it sold out . I ended up at least being able to get the non foil set.
I know I'm just one person but I can't be the only person. I used to buy lairs pretty regularly. Haven't bought one in a long time. Recently tried to order one that I felt was too good to pass up but supposedly it sold out in an hour or two. How much are they losing from customers like me. How many people can't just sit there online waiting for it to go live. Give us 24 hours at least.
I think I am the only one that’s not upset about this. Does it stock that not everyone was able to get something? For sure, BUT this was known that this was going to sell quick and that it would be a gamble. I talked to many friends who have put knew some who had issues with buying secret liars mostly back when walking dead dropped. Soo I went into it expecting that I was not going to get something especially when the site crashed. Also the fact that i reached at 3 second dropped something in my car and got check out maybe 8 seconds total and still took I think 3.5 hrs. Even getting a confirmation of my order based on the stories I’ve heard I’m not garnering i actually got this until it’s in my mailbox.
Listen its sucks. People finding ways to cut the line, dealing with secondary markets but bulk amount to re-sell at high price and even groups of people working together so if one of the buddies who was lucky to be towards the front of line bought for them and all there friends who were further back in the line. I think thats just the reality and people just need to have that expectation and not her high hopes so you’re not pissed of when it doesn’t go your way.
I added the foil wolverine and non-foil storm to my cart, went to checkout and saw the queue. I put my debit card away and saved $90! I’m not waiting for hours so that I can GIVE MY MONEY to wizards
They could do like most online. Charge extra for express shipping along with the old model
Hate to break it to anyone who isn't aware of buying behavior, but the sensation of missing out, the perception of scarcity, the anger associated with an uncertain and "high stakes" purchasing experience... those are all WAY more powerful emotions that will drive you to buy more vigorously in the future than if you'd had a pleasant and hassle-free buying experience.
This is intended. This is by design.
WotC is THRILLED with the current results. It is exactly what they wanted. They want people starved for more UB because it feeds directly into the metric they want to promote as their vision forward. They can take this metric to future UB prospects and say, "Look, this is how fiercely competitive we can make your IP within context of our game. This is the kind of exposure we can cultivate."
And they're right btw, like.. I'm not saying WotC will be wrong in stating that. If people want this kind of product, and they want it this badly, then you can expect this sort of thing to continue.
A highly competitive and limited quantity sale that dries up immediately isn't bad press, it isn't bad news, it isn't a bad look.
That's a hole-in-one.
I got the full foil bundle with no intention to resell but man the prices I’m seeing online make it real tempting😅
If wotc limited to 1 set/person it would have been fair. But people hoarded this product to resell, and thats quite sad, since we are talking about a game. Im out of mtg from 2 months and i am not regretting that
I was extremely lucky in getting my order processed without having to resort to being a scumbag and didn’t get my cart booted before I could check out. I will be using real copies of the cards when I make decks around them, but for anyone who got screwed over by the bots, line cutters, and most significantly Hasbro’s greed, I say proxy the s-t out of them! Over the course of time, I have become far more friendly to people playing with proxies, and at this point I’m on the full proxy-train. I wasn’t even screwed over, and I’m still upset that other actual players couldn’t just buy the damn cards. So get those printers warmed up, because of WotC won’t treat their customers right then there’s no reason to respect their business. I’m not going to stop supporting my LGS, but I’m not going to look down on anyone who feels like they can’t give WotC any more money.
i was so upset by that drop, i got the street fighter secret lair drop with no problem...but the marvel drop was ridiculous, the wait time bar barely didn't move before i was hit with a list of sold out cards while i was still in "line" waiting online on the website....it was terrible, secret was trash for that....guess i'll be doing proxies for these, screw it, wayyyy cheaper any way
I usually have good luck with the secret lairs- I did my usual thing- put it in my cart and waited in the queue for HOURS. Non foil set was sold out. 😢So I am going to proxy.
I think the problem with this secret lair was the crash or que pausing. Other than that its the same as any other limited print run. If u missed out its unfortunate but it is what it is. Proxy it.
Been a sneakerhead for years. This is called hype people. Unfortunately the tcg community will have to get used to it
If I want them to play them in my group I'll just print these, easy
It wasn't until this superdrop that I secret lairs were typically expected to be reprints with unique art. This having new cards that were unique really puts a bad taste in my mouth for any future products
Wait in the line just to be sold out. They should of limit one per person because scalpers got them and now they are selling them for $150 or more online now.
My proxies of these are gonna look so cool!
This is why proxies will always be a thing. Too many decisions to make the “fast money” vs make the player base happy.
I love how WOTC are endorsing Proxies more and more. First by reprinting proxies themselves with Magic 30 (disgusting product) and then allowing these kind of things to happen. From now my cards above 5$ will be from Proxies of the Coast.
I totally forgot about this dropping Monday.😅 people in my pod there not happy 😅
I feeling so sorry for everyone who wanted these who didn't get them. Those of us who were lucky enough are far too few, do fucking PRINT TO DEMAND wizards!
"Look, we throw a lot of fancy words in front of these kids in order to attract them to going to the LGS in the belief that they're gonna have a better life, and we know that all were doing is breeding a whole new generation of buyers and sellers, BUYERS AND SELLERS!"
Magic should just make a marvel set and make people buy packs and pull them. Let people waste hundreds or even thousands of dollars to get these cards instead of buying a set for $50. F the collectors. F the players. F the scalpers. They’d probably make a lot more money.
Counterpoint, I sacrifice Ugin's Nexus to Iron Man to summon Chimil, The Inner Sun.
All you gotta do is pay the price the scalpers want then claim you never received the product then you get them for free hurt the resellers for hurting you
Secret Lair has always felt like a mistake to me. As is Universes Beyond. WOTC wants to get in on every fandom and hype train they can with no care of how the game looks, feels, and is played. Commander is the focus, other formats are suffering, and according to reports MTG isn't even bringing in the money for them enough anymore. Making Marvel releases is the first hammer strike to put a nail in the coffin, because people have been calling considering the game the Disney/Fortnite shill since March of the Machines with the cringe Avengers style text and theme.
I was able to get a non foil bundle, i waited only 2 1/2 hours, 2 of my friends waited for almost 3 1/2 to get individual drops. I'm guessing the longer wait times were on the individual drops then the bundles. This whole debacle is disgusting and if anybody thinks differently your deluding yourself because this was done intentionally
This exclusivity shit would be infuriating if I hadn't stopped spending on MtG years ago.
I’m so disappointed, I used my last vacation time to make sure I wouldn’t miss it that day. i was on the site before it was even time just to make sure I would be ready, ended up waiting almost 4 hours and ended up with nothing because everything I had wanted sold out
The worst part was checking eBay and other sites on my phone to see all the resellers already listing items
I made the line and at the end it just bugged and recent me to the main page. Really bad process
How is over printing related to print to order??! If you print to order then you don’t have extra
I've only been playing for two years, but even I've noticed how bad WotC has been nosediving. Decisions have been increasingly bad, to the point that it's making it hard to want to stay in the game. If I do stay, I'll likely just switch entirely to proxies. I can't afford all this product, nor in good conscience support a company that's so open about exploiting its customers. The only people I feel bad for are the game store owners who are caught in the middle.
Limited time, print to demand, was a much better system. Even with the wait times.
They just keep proving over and over again they do not care what their community says or wants. They only care about the numbers on the quarterly reports
I liked secret lairs, but this last one has burned me out of buying them. And at this point I'm probably done buying mtg cards entirely. I have enough and ill just play casual games with friends, this is too expensive of a hobby at this point.
When I first started playing I wasn’t a fan of proxy cards as it felt like it makes the experience pulling the chase card less special but this secret layer bs has made me want to proxy all my cards wizards is the new EA to me and it’s sad
I was in line 4min after sale launch (could have been faster but I got errors trying to get into shopping cart), waited over 4 hours and only got 3 to choose from.
It really was a shit show. I was in the checkout line roughly within sometime between 5-15 seconds of the orders opening and I waited 2 1/2 hours to checkout, and when I had 2 minutes remaining they had sold out of the promo card. I mean say what you want about it being a limited drop in the first place or the entire checkout system being trash, but how do you not print enough of the promo cards you promised people would get if they spent $200 to not only not meet the demand of the print run, but not enough make it like halfway through. I mean you know exactly what your inventory is of the drops and what they cost, you can easily figure out how many promos you needed. I would understand the additional scarcity if it was like an optional add-on, but they gave it away for free. All you’re doing is creating another way to let down your customers and a reason for people to be pissed. Its ridiculous.