The Mouth of Sauron Explained
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Proof that being employed by Sauron doesn’t come with a dental plan
The look of the common Orc told me that
Always look into dental plans before joining an evil overlord’s army!
Lisa needs braces
Ok, open up and say "Ash nazg..."
Probably also proof that no one punishes unionism more than Sauron.
I've always interpreted the Mouth of Sauron as a dark mirror image of Aragorn, two of the few remaining men of Numenor; a "What if Aragorn had been raised by Sauron instead of Elrond?"
Oh good point 👍!
Interesting.
True, the mouth of Sauron was man after all right?
Interesting point of view.
I had the same thought! :)
I just feel the need to say the character design of the Mouth of Sauron in the movie was just fantastic.
Right? Those priestly robes, the almost organic looking helmet, and that huge, disgusting, weeping mouth. Even the way they frame him is great, whenever he's on screen they don't center him as they usually would a character, the focus is on his mouth. Lots of shots close in on his face and even if his eyes were visible through the helm they'd be out of frame. The mouth is the literal character!
The way the blood pushes through his teeth and grey gums while he speaks makes me want to jam tootpicks into my gums so bad! Makes my whole mouth itch.
Mouth was inspired from prophet muhammad
, honestly, is his the best costume in the series & The Hobbit??! other than Radagast The Brown, of course.
@😢KorriTimigan
I can't tell you how much I appreciate that your channel isn't just another ChatGPT script with a bunch of random video clips.
literally that is why I keep coming back...
I love that despite how inherently evil orcs are, a human man is the most evil of Saurons servants.
I agree fully. Orcs were born evil and know nothing else. As a man he had a choice.
Idk if he's more evil than Saruman or that real ugly orc that helps Saruman raise his army, but he's definitely the scariest-looking
Men are more trusted and relied upon than the orcs. That is why they rise to power in evil armies over the orcs when applicable.
@@nthgthdidn’t ya watch the video??
@@nthgth I wouldn't say that Saruman is Sauron's servant
Never noticed that The Mouth of Sauron is the only one who directly calls him Sauron
Then how did you found out his name?
I think Gandalf quickly assesses the situation when the Mouth presents Frodo’s belongings and Pippin cries out, rather than magically intuiting that Frodo approaches Mount Doom.
The fact that the Mouth is there bargaining in the first place shows that something is amiss, as if Frodo’s mission had failed utterly then Sauron would have the ring and wouldn’t be bargaining, he’d be conquering. I think Gandalf calls the parley to a close to prevent anyone giving any information to the Mouth, as he’s clearly bluffing and Gandalf sees right through him.
You are right bro and that was always my thoughts. If they already had the ring they wouldn't bother treating with em, Gandalf knew he was poking for signs of weakness or information based off everyone's reactions.
well remember, Sauron thought Aragon had the ring, else why would he be so bold as to do this? So yes he doesn't even contemplate a small hobbit is there near Mt. doom, he believes he's speaking to the ring bearer and that the ring is nearly in his grasp now.
@@xenxander yes but also remember up to this point Sauron assumes that Frodo is nothing more than a spy sent by Gandalf. The Mouth is goading them all, displaying the things Frodo was carrying as proof that they have captured Frodo. It’s a bluff, but if the fellowship aren’t careful they could give away more than they intend. Gandalf intuits that it’s a bluff, as if they really had Frodo they would also have the ring, which they don’t because the Mouth wouldn’t even be there if that was so. Remember that the Free Peoples are also bluffing about Aragorn having the ring, they’re counting on Sauron to take the bait so Frodo and Sam can move across the plains of Gorgoroth to Mount Doom.
Agreed. The taunting of the Mouth is actually a very clever reversal in many ways. The army has marched to the gates BECAUSE they hope to distract Sauron and they don't know what has happened to Frodo but they do know that Sauron does not have the One Ring. And, as Xander observes, Sauron (more or less correctly) believes that most humans, seeing the Ring, would take it and try to conquer the world with it, so Aragorn's apparent overconfidence is playing exactly into this. The Mouth, and by extension Sauron, hope to taunt and demoralize the heroes with Frodo's tokens, and it works on Pippin... but Gandalf, of course, is as certain Sauron doesn't have the Ring as before. And since Sauron doesn't have the Ring, this actually proves that Frodo ESCAPED and is now INSIDE MORDOR. Exactly what they wanted! Sauron's attempt at sadism was ACTUALLY the greatest source of hope for the wise present. The classic 'evil is its own greatest enemy' trope that we see played out in a number of ways in the novels.
In fact, this is why the Mouth's scene was cut from the theatrical cut of the film. Peter Jackson et al realized there was no emotional stake in the scene, from the audience's perspective. They'd already seen Sam rescue Frodo, so they knew just as well as Gandalf that the hobbits were okay. In a three-hour movie with 30 minutes' worth of endings, you have to cut what you can. 😉 Thank goodness for the extended versions!
He was Jeff Henderson, of South Bend, Indiana. He went to college for accounting and briefly worked for Eli Lilly before becoming corrupted by Sauron.
He went to college for ACCOUNTING! He was already corrupted!!
Nothing to say about the actual message at the Black Gate? I think it's worth discussing as the Mouth's message to the party is one of the biggest teases of failure in the entire story. In the books, that is. It doesn't really have the same effect in the movie since the audience already knows that Frodo and Sam are still carrying out the mission in Mordor. But reading the books, the audience hasn't actually caught back up with the ringbearers at this point and it's unknown if what the Mouth's saying is a bluff or not. I think that's probably one of the reasons the scene was cut from the theatrical release. But it's still a horribly poignant moment for the protagonists and terrifically acted by the great Bruce Spence.
"Who would have thought one so small could endure so much pain. And he did, Gandalf... he did."
I agree. I think MoS became enraged not because he/Sauron was afraid, but because Gandalf did not give the reaction MoS wanted to see.
This whole sequence was I always thought a trap laid out by Sauron. Ultimately Sauron was duped, but at this moment he thought he had the upper hand. He didnt have the ring, but I assumed Sauron believed Frodo was dead and the ring was near and would soon be found.
This scene and Shelob’s were true cliffhangers in the books. Edit: I actually forgot but in the books, MoS states Frodo (unnamed) was alive and that Sauron et al were prepared to torture him.
@@co94 Exactly. The MoS expected Gandalf and the rest to despair as soon as he showed him the mithril coat and everything else - which a couple of them initially did, but then that despair went away once they realized the full implications of what was and *wasn't* being shown. They quickly realize that Sauron can't have actually captured or killed Frodo and Sam, because if he had he would already have reclaimed the Ring and Sauron wouldn't be wasting time talking to them. Sauron set up this parley specifically to "play these mice cruelly before he struck to kill". But when the Mouth doesn't get the expected reaction, it stirs the first bits of doubt in Sauron's (and the Mouth's minds) that something else may be going on that he doesn't comprehend. We see the same sequence of emotions with Sauron when Frodo puts on the Ring inside Mount Doom as we do with the Mouth when he leaves: fury and wrath, quickly consumed by fear.
@@co94 A crucial factor is that Sauron had no idea that the hobbits had the Ring - he thought of them as spies or agents sent to infiltrate Mordor for some unknown purpose - but he thought the Ring was with the army, probably held by Aragorn, though possibly by Gandalf.
The entire gambit by Gondor and the West was a bluff designed to strengthen Sauron's conviction that the Ring was where he believed, and within his grasp if he struck swift and sure against the new wielder before they could consolidate their power.
And the necessity of maintaining that bluff as long as possible may have been what spurred Gandalf to end the parley so abruptly - not knowledge that Frodo was at the summit of Mount Doom, but concern that prolonging the conversation further would strike a false note, and prompt Sauron to question his assumptions.
Instead of continuing to focus on the fate of Frodo, Gandalf showed the arrogance Sauron expected, fostering the illusion that Frodo's quest was relatively unimportant, rather than, as it actually was, the single most vital element of their strategy.
@@rmsgrey Point taken that it is never explicitly stated that Sauron knew a hobbit bore the ring, but there has to be an, "oh c'mon," factor, ha. Sauron was aware that Mordor was infiltrated, but he has no idea why? That's up there with Grand Moff Tarkin arrogance, haha. But maybe that was the whole point: Sauron was too smart for his own good. He literally is the only main character in the story who has no idea where the ring is or who is carrying it. His ineptitude was exposed when Frodo put the ring on right under Sauron's nose, er, Eye.
I kid. I just like this scene very much so I always try to figure out wth was going in with it. It's 3 or 4 pages of the chapter but it is so memorable. Even MoS's proposal for terms is odd. Sauron is completely untrustworthy so even though he has "no love for spies," he would never honor terms so what was the point in offering them other than to try to rile Gandallf, etc., up.
@@Wolfeson28 True dat!
The Mouth seems an odd detail on first reading, but the genius of the writing becomes apparent on reflection. The Mouth allows us to see that Sauron genuinely fears Gandalf and Aragorn, without diminishing Sauron's power and menace.
Professor Tolkien was truly one of the most skilled and artful writers who ever put pen to paper.
The Mouth of Sauron looked incredible on screen and was perfectly realised but i hated how the scene ended, he should have cowered back through the gates. As always, an amazing video. Thank you
Agree completely. The Mouth was perfect but Aragorn cutting off the head of an ostensibly unarmed opponent felt wrong. The book's resolution was much better.
@@AlmostEthical yes, that was my issue with it aswell
@@AlmostEthical That was a horrible scene. Aragorn would have never done such a thing. In our own past, attack an emissary, no matter how awful that person behaved, was considered a war crime.
@@istari0 Yes, it was a dishonourable act, totally not Aragorn's style. Pity, because the Mouth himself was amazing.
@@AlmostEthicalwe don't negotiate with terrorist. *eagle screech*🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
I always thought that Mouth's reaction to words of Gandalf are Sauron's WTF moment. He was masterminding for centuries by this moment but now, he just cannot understand what is happening.
I love the image of a salty Sauron volunteering the MoS to go out and talk to Gandalf because he just learned the Witch King had died.
Sauron really can’t be described as salty, as one of the downsides of following Morgoth is sodium intolerance. Furthermore, Sauron didn’t even need to volunteer the Mouth since the MoS was bound to him by the Veil of Azamerioth, meaning that Sauron’s mere will was enough to send forth the Mouth. Also, the Witch King didn’t quite die, as he was a wraith and not a human, and merely dissipated, or in Elvish, “dellusttinrè.”
Sauron was NOT afraid of Gandalf. Gandalf was afraid of him. Until Frodo put on The Ring in the Carag Dur, Sauron was convinced he was going to win overwhelmingly. And he very nearly did. All the men of the west and their allies who went to at the Battle of the Black Gates went in knowing it was a suicide mission, if Frodo failed. Not an eventual defeat. And instantaneous overwhelming victory by Sauron.
@@dandiehm8414 That has nothing to do with what I said. It is still very easy to imagined Sauron being pissed his top underling got merced by a hobbit and a chick.
@@gothamwarrior why sodium?
@@gothamwarrior Sodium intolerant? Where do you get that from? And Sauron was coeliac, and Gandalf had a nut allergy?
I've been listening to Robert since early in the Game of Thrones/ASOIAF days, but I can tell Lord of the Rings is his true passion. It amazes me how knowledgeable he is about Middle Earth. That's not disparaging his GOT work, you can just really tell Robert loves the way this channel is going in the post-GOT world. Much love to all
Tolkien was real quality. Martin is just some American slob.
While I don't disagree with you, lotr has so much more detail compared to got.
@@takumi2023yeah, George RR Martin's writing is absolutely surface level compared to Tolkien's
Tolkien live for 16 years in Birmingham, so Robert’s home city, so there’s a strong connection there. I was born in the Ribble Valley which (at least during my childhood when I began reading The Hobbit ) was strongly linked to Tolkien. However, much of that connection is exaggeration.
@@eyeballpaul700Tolkien also actually finished lord of the rings while I dont believe Martin will ever finish game of thrones
An underrated character. We don't see much of him, but just this guy alone would be a worthy villain of a novel.
He was my favourite general in the GBA game
I note that in the movie, the mask worn by The Mouth of Sauron echoes the design of the gate of Mordor.
I never thought about who Sauron's messenger to Dain was, but this makes a lot of sense.
The only thing about it that doesn't feel right to me is that The Mouth is so disfigured as to be unmistakably evil. That's great for intimidation, but not for feigning friendship--and with the dwarves, he was trying to do the latter.
@@mvmlego1212 Disfigured? In the movie, yes. Not in the book. All weʻre told of how he looks is that heʻs tall, wears a dark cloak and a high helm. So the only thing we know about how he looks is that heʻs tall.
@@margaretalbrecht4650 -- Ah, thank you.
@@margaretalbrecht4650 He is also riding a giant, disfigured, black horse with a skull like face and flaming pits for eyes... I think this might look somewhat evil
@@DrOmegaBattleSphere He wouldn't be riding that horse if he went to the Lonely Mountain to speak with Dain.
He was riding him at the gate because he was supposed to horrify and intimidate.
I absolutely loved Jackson's rendition of him in the films
His appearance is like a contortionist, gruesome to watch but u can't seem to look away
Shame he was cut from the original film. In the end when Aragorn fights the troll (originally supposed to b Sauron himself) I thought it would have been more fitting if he fought the Mouth instead. And as the one ring is destroyed we see him go mad with disbelief at the death of his lord. Mini series on how he got that way is required ^_^
I just love that it's the dude from ace ventura under the mask haha
@
I always loved how his mouth moves in the movie
@@Sange4499?????
@@Sange4499you mean Bruce spence? He was in Mad max 2, he was the guy with the one man helicopter & also the creepy alien dude with the long head in Star Wars episode 3 & a lot of other characters/ monsters
I interpret the moment gandalf rejects the mouths terms as him looking past his emotional response to the sight of frodos belongings and thinking logically, his greatest strength: if Frodo and Sam truly had been captured, why did they only mention one being imprisoned and tortured, and even more importantly, would Sauron not already have the ring and therefore not even bother with treating with them but instead march out with all his strength returned to destroy his foes easily there and then? He would have already won so what need to bargain?
I think at that moment gandalf realised it was nothing more than a bluff and that even had frodo indeed been captured, Sam was still alive and had a chance to save him or deliver the ring to Mt doom himself: the plan to distract sauron was thus still necessary.
When my daughter first saw the extended edition, she spent a whole month, everytime I entered a room, greeting me as follows....
"Ha! Old grey beard"
😅 that's brilliant
Then you shaved I hope
Of course he was important. He was the foreign minister of Mordor.
You always have such a good take on these things, Robert. I have been a Tolkien fan for years and years, but you always give me a new viewpoint. Thank you.
I've been a Tolkien fan for more than 30 years at this point and I don't even care about "new viewpoints". I just love how he narrates things.
The mouth of Sauron is a weird looking dude in the Extended version of ROTK. He’s one of those characters I won’t ever forget. Like the angel of death in Hellboy: The Golden Army or el hombre pálido in El Laberinto del fauno. Just really eerie looking creatures.
Well said. So little screen time but perfectly eerie and very memorable.
Judging by the Flaming Eye logo, it occurs to me that somewhere on Sauron's team there was a pretty good graphic designer. 😉
You kill enough orcs and dominate them in Shadow of War, you'll run into him.😉
I always thought that the MoS was the best candidate for the bad guy in a sequel to the LoTR. He was an almost-immortal Numenorean who mastered black arts, a sort of anti-Aragorn.
In the book he ran away and presumably survived, but in the films Aragorn killed him with one swing of his sword. Apparently when Aragorn meets anti-Aragorn, only one survives in the movie version.
True, either him or any remaining Black Numenoreans, because if the MOS was one of them, then their had to be others perhaps Book Gothmog or the Black Serpent of the Haradrim.
Survived in the book? The Towers of the Teeth and the Black Gate crumbled. The Mouth of Sauron was dead in the rubble.
@@margaretalbrecht4650 Perhaps
@@margaretalbrecht4650
Not confirmed
@@Richard_Nickerson Except by common sense.
"my master, sauron the great, bids thee welcome...the halfling was dear to thee, i see. know that he suffered greatly at the hands of this host. who would have thought that one so small would endure so much pain?" ... it was strange to me they cut the mouth of sauron out of the film in theatres. upon release of the extended edition of return of the king it was fantastic seeing him. the costume creator of the mouth of sauron did a convincing job! warren mahy, i believe.
IIRC, when the mouth came to Erebor, the dwarves were more like "Ok then, we'll think about it and letcha know. Thanks for comin!" Rather than just flat-out refusing Sauron.
That's true. Dain basically told the emissary they (the Dwarves) would think about it and then the emissary warned them not to spent too much time thinking about it. Dain replied in effect that he would take as much time as he wanted.
@@istari0 Dain said "The time of my thought is my own". The Emissary responded "for the present". Extremely chilling!
There are good arguments for the messenger to king Dain being a Nazgul.
@@thecappeningchannel515 Not a chance. That emissary was trying seem marginally friendly and was trying to get help through cooperation. He mentioned three options how the Dwarves could help him, and only one (the last) was slightly threatening. The first two sounded very friendly (if you didn't already know Sauron's character). The Nazgul INSTANTLY inspired great terror and fear wherever they went. The Dwarves would have never even considered helping him. The Nazgul are NOT negotiators.
@@dandiehm8414 nazgul spoke fairly normally with hobbits in the Shire. There is no reason the Mouth of Sauron should be included in the plan to get the ring back, in this Sauron would only trust the Nazgul. Mouth of Sauron could also sweeten his voice, since he is a regular man, the nazgul could not.
I had never considered the emissary in Erebor could be the Mouth! What a great catch!
always appreciate these lore videos. As someone who loves LotR very casually, this is always such a good way to learn more about the world and the lore.
7:04
And that 'audacious literary trope' of Tolkien's, meant to reflect the way the PLAYERS always remain hidden in the shadows, never stepping into the light and lettering the 'underlings' (minions) do the heavy lifting? TOLKIEN was describing a real tactic here.
Great analysis, Robert!
The fact that he was cut from the original version is why I always watch the extended version. That scene looks ridiculous without him coming out to parley with Gandalf and Aragorn his words and the tokens he produces creates doubt that Frodo and Sam are still alive and they begin to feel like all may be lost until Aragorn motivates them to stand fast and have hope. Great video as always !
When I was younger, reading Lord of The Rings, not "seeing" Sauron or hearing him directly made him so much powerful. I don't know how others percieve him but for me it was fear personified. From Orcs to powerful wizards. All tremble hearing his name.
9:19 Well of course, ever since Sauron got nearly strangled to death by Huan the good boy, he shied away from direct confrontations.
He didn't do too well in hand-to-hand against Elendil & Gil-Galad either. And he hid himself from Eonwe. (And LOL @ "Huan the Good Boy")
@@dandiehm8414 He actually did take on Elendil and Gil-galad (and arguably had to cut his way from the Dark Tower to Mount Doom, so countless other elves and Numenoreans too) and took them all down in MAD, and that was when he hadn't recovered his full strength. That's a better track record than any of the much-vaunted balrogs. He actually did go up to Eonwe too; it's just that Eonwe told him to answer to the Valar and Sauron went 'haha get stuffed'.
The mouth of Sauron needs to brush his teeth
from what i understood. the mouth was essentially a physical conduit of sorts. Sauron would speak to him in the language of Mordor and he would translate. heard the language itself had an evil power that would actually rot the lips from a humans mouth just for speaking it. acted as an emissary at points, but was the one who would do most of the actual communicating while Sauron was in his ethereal form...
Nope - he was a corrupted human. Using his own intelligence, with instructions from Sauron on what to say ahead of time. Sauron was not physically "in his ear" listening to the conversation.
Sauron has a physical form in the novel. He tortures Gollum in person with his 4 fingered hand. Gollum met him face to face.
Maybe that's why Gandalf says of the language of Mordor "I will not utter [it] here," i.e. at Bag End.
Maybe he'd only dare it in the vicinity of elves who could reverse the damage promptly with their magic medicine.
Why was he included in the story? Because every king needs a herald,and every hero needs a messenger to kill.
Something I have been noticing recently in a reread of the books. There is are several cyclical themes that keep playing themselves out in Arda. The Mouth of Sauron is to Sauron as Sauron was to Morgoth. In terms of the Dark Lord cycle you always start out as the most powerful member of the peer group attempting to impose their will on everyone and everything by overpowering those that stand against them, they fail, escape, regroup, and spread their power ever thinner until they as a being are physically very weak but are so dispersed among their horde their corruption is pretty much omnipresent sp when they are banished or defeated it doesn't really change anything since the damage is done and was done long ago during the singing of Arda. The common theme cycles in the series seems to be a series of things making the same mistakes higher beings made with them. The Valar brought the Elves to Valanor to protect and teach them. But in doing so they over sheltered them and refused to allow them to leave, which they had a logical reason for; they were trying to wait out Morgoth to get him out of Middle Earth before allowing them to return. Eventually this made many of the Elves including Fanior to resent the Valar and think of the Valar as "Holier than thou" hypocrites that pretend their creation is perfect but Morgoth is off smashing things and corrupting just about everything he can get his hands on while the Valar appear to be doing nothing from the Elve's pov. The Elves eventually do this with the Humans until we get the Half Elves and the first High King of Men and the cycle starts over with the Numenoreans doing the same thing to common humans from Middle Earth. That is a VERY long way for me to say; I don't think it matters much "who" or "how" the Mouth of Sauron is or came to be as he is just occupying a role that pretty much anyone can fill if you break/reward/intimidate them just right. Morgoth tried and failed with Osse, had his backup singers from Miar on his second attempt, and finally recruited Sauron on the third attempt. Sauron went through the final High King of Numenor, a butt load of Orc and Urkia, Saruman, and the Anonymous Mouth. I guess the ringwraiths KIND of belong in there too but I dunno how much autonomy they really had so they were more like very dangerous toys.
With the description of the Horse he is riding it makes me wonder if the idea may have been that it was a Machine I mean we know that saramon was basically starting the industrial revolution all by himself so maybe this mount was a meld of magic and Machine?
Thats a very good idea. 😮 frodo does hear machinery in Mount Doom after all.
Amazing! I never considered the thought that it was the MOS that went to Erebor or the depth of the character for that matter.
There are good arguments for the messenger to Dain being a nazgul though.
“And he claimed the greasy pole of Sauron’s court…” is such a delicious bit of wordplay. Well done…
There might be a chance that the Mouth of Sauron is not his title.
"I am the mouth of Sauron." Could also mean that he is just right now speaking for Sauron, not that its his overall title and fuction. He is the Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dur. On the other hand it makes sense that he is the one speaking for Sauron as he is the Lieutenant of the seat of power and Tolkien was big in Etymology and Lieutenant means originally something like the one that holds power in place of a superior.
True - but he gave himself that title to the Emissaries from the West, and when Gandalf called him by that title, the MOS did not correct him.
And as for the detail of his being little more than Sauron's puppet, having given up his will and reason to Sauron... I'm reminded of something C. S. Lewis wrote in _Perelandra_ a decade earlier:
"The question whether Satan, or one whom Satan has digested, is acting on any given occasion, has in the long run no clear significance."
It's a glorious day when Robert uploads a new video ❤
We aren’t given the eyes of Sauron, not the nose or hands but the mouth. Where most writers have to use the whole body of a villain to make us fear them, to make them seem large and frightening, Tolkien never shows us his villain, we only see what his influence can do to a man. His corruption is enough to reduce a kings to puppets. His words alone are enough to rot the mouth of Sauron’s teeth. We see what creatures he can create when left to his own devices, which lets us see more of him than a physical body can allow. We see his ability to manipulate, his disregard for other’s lives, and his obsession for utter and complete control. If he cannot control it, he fears it, therefore he hates it and must destroy it. I think if he had a body, it would have reduced him. We fear him because he is everywhere.
Beautiful work. I love the new insight you bring Thank you
Detailed and excellent video as always!
This was one of your best. Brilliant work
Best press secretary there ever was.
Really enjoy these videos, thank you!
wow. I have never thought of the Mouth of Sauron that way. Thank you!
In Jackson's version of RotK the look and feel was perfect. However, the film actions of Aragorn to end the discussion was, in my opinion, completely out of character from a book perspective; I didn't like it!
*this was absolutely brilliant*
He's basically the anti-Aragorn.
I can’t believe tolkien included the mouth of sauron, from the hit game gollum, in his book!
Yet another amazing video, every time you post it makes my day better.
Wow! This is a top shelf explanation.
Considering how much Tolkien loved horses, the description of the MoS's steed is interesting.
This is one of the many things that separate the Professor's works from all the imitators. So many ORIGINAL characters! And all so unique I enjoy these in depth videos very much. Keep up the great work.
The way you narrate is amazing!
I'm mot sure I agree with your assessment of the mouth of saruon at the end. The part regarding fear. The way I interpret it was that the mouth felt fear for being unable to deliver sauron's will and failing to get them to surrender. (Maybe even afraid of punishment)
These videos are awesome! I’ve been listening to a lot of them this week as I have caught covid. Thank you for your creativity and research.
Enriching an already gloriously detailed world. Noble and much appreciated.
The 1981 BBC radio production of Lord of the Rings used the Mouth of Sauron as the messenger to the dwarves like you suggested.
I waiting for this! The depiction of the Mouth of Sauron in the third Movie has fascinated me for some inexplicable reason.
Interesting info: It's possible to learn magic! You are not only able as a "born" magic user (the 5 istari, elves and so on). Maybe an interesting topic for another video: How many magic user were there and how was it possible to use magic.
From what I've read, magic can be learned in LOTR, by mortals, but, generally, much of it stems from Sauron and Morgoth. Numenoreans had an affinity to it, some was natural ability, others due to erudite nature. For example, Malbeth the Seer could be considered a diviner, and Saruman mentions in the Hobbit something about a mortal magician playing with dark magic could be the "Necromancer", instead of Sauron.
Listening to this makes me wonder if the mouth of Sauron was “The new shadow” in Tolkien’s abandoned sequel. He checks a lot of those boxes: he’s human, which fits with it being the age of men, he basically filled the role Sauron served for Morgoth and thus his most likely successor, he’s the only one of Sauron’s commanders whose fate we don’t know, he’s adept at dark magic , and cunning enough to form cults around that darkness. And that would honestly be a very cool concept
Love this idea but whilst he was still a man, would his fate not also have been tied to the ring due to Sauron’s corruption of him?
Ooh I really love that. Like the single surviving root of a weed that, in time, grows until it chokes the garden. And I especially like how it would mirror the Morgoth -> Sauron progression, like a twisted dynasty of evil
@@lilbun444 That depends on if you subscribe to the theory that he was 1000 years old, or merely about 90 years old.
@@lilbun444 Not really. Saruman is also corrupted by Sauron but doesn't fall dead when the ring is destroyed; same with the orcs and the men of the nations that fought for Sauron.
@@patriarch7237 saruman was killed by Grima though and orcs were most Melkor’s doing so less tied to Sauron. It’s a cool theory tho
Excellent as always
Great video! Thanks.
I just rewatched Return of the King 2 days ago and was thinking about the Mouth of Sauron.
Remember he was played by Bruce Spence, also played Jedediah the pilot In MadMax
Thanks for another interesting piece. I had always assumed the visitor to the dwarfs was a Nazgul, so you've given me cause to reconsider an aspect of the book. A great gift.
I disagree. The Nazgul INSTANTLY induced TERROR in everyone. That emissary was trying seem marginally friendly and was trying to get help through cooperation. He mentioned 3 options for the Dwarves to help him, and only one was slightly threatening. The first two sounded very friendly (if you didn't already know Sauron's character). The Nazgul (and the MOS) were so obviously evil that the Dwarves would have never considered helping him and Sauron.
@@dandiehm8414 Good point ! Rethink my rethink I think.
Nice analysis, thanks.
You can't really blame Sauron for sending others to do his dirty work. Look what happen last time he went out himself
Aragorn said naught in answer, but he took the other's eye and held it, and for a moment they strove thus; but soon, though Aragorn did not stir nor move hand to weapon, the other quailed and gave back as if menaced with a blow. 'I am a herald and ambassador, and may not be assailed!' he cried.
😂
Thanks for the vid🙂
I loved that character, i really wish we saw more of him!
Drinking game! Every time you hear the word sauron..
Love the vids
Thank you for this video! I had wanted to know more about the Mouth of Sauron ever since I watched Return of the King. 😀
Well said!
Your best video yet. I've watched many, and sometimes disagreed with you. After all, we can't all agree on the world of Tolkien, as even he himself changed his mind about so many things. But after watching this, I could write an essay. This video led me to think of so many things, from the Messenger from Mordor mentioned at the Council of Elrond to Ar-Pharazon and the actions of Sauron. Well done.
I honestly liked the depiction in the Rankin-Bass "Return of the King" than in the Peter Jackson version. You make a good point about the latter's mouth being rotted by uttering Sauron's words, but the former makes it much more clear that he is a mortal man, and seems to me to capture the "feel" of the books better.
I’m really sad that they had to cut off the scene with The Mouth of Sauron. One of my favorite scenes in Return of the King. Also, is cool af. It’s like Aragorn smashing Sauron’s phone.
Yeah! It's like he's telling Sauron to go F himself and it's glorious
In the books, Aragorn doesn't fight the Mouth of Sauron. The battle is described as a terrifying mess by Pippin, being flooded by fierce trolls. It has so much more effect, Tolkien going full realistic for the grand finale. He was obviously inspired by the WWI battles he fought in. Those must have felt extremely non-heroic, anonymous, messy and confusing.
The thing I like most about the visual design of this character in the film is that his helm completely covers his eyes.
It put forth the message that as a puppet and vessel of Sauron he has no need to see with his own eyes, he's simply guided and moves as he's bade to do.
My theory is that the Mouth of Sauron was either a Numenorean prince or royal that he made into a servant/pet. Like what Saruman did to the King of Rohan Theoden, so to me I always thought that he was a royal twisted so Sauron had a cult of men to operate as agents.
He probably came from Numenor.
The most important question of all; how does he see through that helmet?
White magick.
It's like typing with boxing gloves on.
Win the battle, lose the war
Choice of evils lies before your feet
Retreat, retreat, retreat!
If you win then you will lose,
Choice of evils, yours to choose
Retreat! Retreat, retreat, retreat!
You are standing in the eye of the storm
Move an inch, and you'll be dead
You are standing underneath
The Towers of the Teeth
And the Eye blazes red!
Win the battle, lose the war
Choice of evils lies before your feet
Retreat, retreat, retreat!
I want to go back and listen to this scene on the extended DVD with the volume up.
with as much emphasis as Tolkein places on the meaning of names, the fact that he doesn't know his speaks volumes.
Good point! He's almost literally become just a mouthpiece... He's been so close to Sauron that he's forgotten where Sauron ends and he himself begins. Very scary.
I cry every time I remember Peter Jackson cut the scene with The Mouth… it was one of the most memorable and creepy parts of the entire cinema series.
Yeah, I think their hands were tied. Forced to reduce the length of the theatrical release, they had to really decide what scenes were just not really quite necessary to the plot. I guess I see why this was one of them but it must've been a tough choice.
I always love the more mysterious characters in stories...mouth of sauron is a favorite
Brilliant!
I like the idea it was him who went to the dwarves. It makes the Mouth less of a 'big lipped alligator moment' in RotK.
I wonder if what triggered the mouth of Sauron was being referred to by Gandalf as one of his "Slaves". Like many who achieve power by sucking up to others there may be regret, jealousy and even shame that their power is never truly their own.
I view the mouth as something of a physical embodiment of Sauron, after losing The Ring. That Sauron's physical body could not be fully reformed until he had physical possession of The Ring. That Sauron had Form and Shape and Thought, but not true substance (like the Ringwraiths) until he reunited with The Ring. The Mouth was literally his physical manifestation of a mouth. (By warping the body of The Mouth as his willing messenger. The Mouth serves also as Major Domo/Bulter to Sauron as well. Sort of Chief of Staff, since he can physically talk to the Orcs/Haradrim/Various servants, whereas Sauron/Ringwraiths being semi-corporeal aren't good at talking at length. The Mouth gives his master's telepathic orders, basically. He's the equivalent to Saruman's Wormtongue...but a lot more dangerous. I view The Mouth as Sauron's 10th Ringwraith, only he has a physical body still.
Sauron was fully corporeal in a humanoid body during the events of the Book. The Eyeball of Mordor is a movie invention; Sauron's own spirit is a massive shadowy humanoid crowned with lightning.
@@LordMortanius Yes, Gollum is the only one who has actually seen Sauron, So we know he has shape. But how solid is that shape? That's never actually said. I prefer my "head-cannon" version. It makes Sauron quest for the Ring, so much more pressing for him. An insult to his ego to not be fully corporeal but be like his Nazgul servants. And to not be able to physically go forth and deliver a deathblow to the heir of Isuldur, AND be able to feel it with flesh and blood fingers as he snaps his neck.
@@mikeys2986 Not just Gollum. Aragorn and Pippin have both encountered him via the Palantir - Pippin is reduced to a catatonic wreck while Aragorn come sout looking aged and weary. According to Tolkien's letters; "Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic.”
His actual spirit also appears in the book; "...and as the Captains gazed south to the Land of Mordor, it seemed to them that, black against the pall of cloud, there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent: for even as it leaned over them, a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed; and then a hush fell."
His was a great look in that breif scene.
I love how his mouth is unnaturally large, as well as cracked and decayed from speaking for sauron. Ankther one of the subtle magics that tolkien is so famous for. :D
This isn't Tolkien. His mouth isn't described in the books. He's just described as tall, with a black cloak. His horse is scary, but he seems surprisingly normal, which underlines the fact that he's human. Somehow makes him much more scary, because I sometimes thought while reading "so he might be a handsome man" and the next second, I always realized how horrible he was. It emphasizes his nature as a warped human man, as someone you could think for a fleeting second you could trust.
the design in the movie was so cool.
"Aah Old Greybeard" says the Mouth of Sauron. I love that scene.
I’ve never seen or read Lord of the Rings, but I’m loving these videos on them
Read it - best work of literature you will ever find.
I love these videos.
Peter Jackson worked with some amazing artists during the creation of his Trilogy. A truly worthy adaptation, despite years having passed