Literally when I would import MuseScore 3 things into Musescore 4, people I showed it to would instanty ask, "What was that instrument?" It was the horn.
I think there's a thing most people I see talking about this on this and other videos are missing: musescore is *NOTATION* software. Notation. It's not a DAW or something similar. The fact it can this well is already incredible.
Not to mention it's completely free. Other softwares that people are mentioning, like Noteperformer, might be better, but those are paid. As an amateur composer/arranger, I'm probably not going to be investing a whole lot of money into notation programs so the fact that we can get this for free is pretty incredible
Exactly, and to add on it’s such an annoying fact that when mentioning music production with traditional instruments NOBODY mentions MuseScore. They recommend you these VST plugins that costs hundreds or thousands of dollars when this exists for free and even rivals their quality. I am glad I stumbled upon this video, it really shows that MuseScore is truly capable of achieving the best.
in order to achieve nice harp gliss playblack in sibelius, you have to split up the notation and have a manually spelt-out version of notes hidden underneath. not sure if it is doable in musescore 4 too.
This is absolutely spectacular! I don't doubt that you could get a better sound out of a proper VST with a bunch of tweaking, but for an out-of-the-box sound this is genuinely incredible!
Musescorse VST compatibility is limited. They just added compatibility in the last update and I bet they'll keep improving it though but at the moment there isn't much you can do with it relative to an actual DAW
The other stuff requires you to think more like a computer programmer than a musician. It's been unbelievably frustrating for me. because it was like there was always one step somewhere where I had to wonder "Why the hell isn't this working?". From the ASIO, to Kontakt, to the MIDI controller, to the Focusrite interface, to the lack of support for mp3, to the legato not working right, to the dynamic getting messed up every time I'd export, etc... jesus christ. If this actually works right, even only half the time and it's good enough to do a little soundtrack for an indie game, or a documentary or an animation? I might be sold. Imagine if you could also do this with notation for guitars, drums, bass and other stuff conventional stuff. Ooo....
The thing that annoys me the very most about any VST orchestra, is actually not the quality of the instruments, but that annoying attack they have on every single note (a volume swell from the start of the note). MS4 letting Muse Sounds understand the phrase helps this so much I'm actually considering seeing if I can render any orchestral bit in MS then bringing it to the daw afterwards.
The problem with I'd say at least 7/10 orchestral VSTis is not that they're samples, but rather the way that they are sampled and programmed is absolutely awful and this has become the standard/tradition for them. Very few outside-the-box thinkers and hardly anyone from the classical music world. As a result, you are forced to make a lot of musical compromises that you shouldn't have to and you basically have to write modern "film music" because that's all the samples can reliably do.
Y’all would benefit from using cinematic studio’s sample libraries and performance samples, they actually got it right and there are some other great libraries out there, although I’m super glad musesounds exist now, midi just can’t do as well and easily stuff like that, it has more limitations than notation software
Especially the mid-register instruments like the oboe, english horn, and clarinet are really drowned out. When you're making a huge score like this, you may wanna raise those instruments +6db in the mixer. Maybe they'll fix that in the future idk.
I almost got them all. 0:02 is the Disney Logo Theme 0:37 is “Transformation” (from Beauty and the Beast) 2:53 is “Birth of Sandman” (from Spider-Man 3) 4:29 is “One Day” (from Pirates of the Caribbean: At World’s End) 4:55 is “Transformation/The End” (from Shrek) But I’m not familiar with the themes at 2:11 and 3:53.
@@Metalpazallteway LotR score is Howard Shore. Some of his best work. Don't get me wrong, love James Horner. The Apollo 13 and Wrath of Kahn scores are fantastic. Was so sad when he passed.
Wow, MuseSounds is the tool we've wanted for a long time. Nothing perfect, just something that actually sounds great when you play it back! Edit: can you believe this stuff is FREE???
Agreed, it just needs to be good enough to give us a pleasant experience scoring, most of the sound is in our heads/will be in the mockup/in the recordings anyways, it's not supposed to be a final product but good enough so it's not painfully bad
Oh my goodness, I only recently downloaded MuseScore 4 and the Muse Sounds and listening to the playbacks literally made me start crying. The sound is simply phenomenal.
This is . . . magical. While there are clearly still a few challenges in terms of not giving away that the sound isn't coming from an actual recording (realistic glissandos, the natural flourishes and imperfections that come with a human performance, etc.), this is still utterly incredible.
Love the first one, especially. To test MS4, I imported a bunch of midis from the MIDI Classical Archive and many have balance problems, like the strings are barely audible and horns are too loud, but some of them were pretty good.
It sounds great, especially given that it is using default settings. However, after having heard several examples I believe that NotePerformer still has a better, more musical and expressive playback engine. Of course, it's current samples are not as good as the new MuseScore samples but this will likely change with the upcoming NotePerformer v4.
I don't even think MuseSounds competes with NotePerformer. As far as I can tell, MuseSounds is competing against things like Sibelius Sounds and whatever Finale comes with by default, it's a free library that's pretty much out-of-the-box for that software. NotePerformer to me feels like it's more competing with hiring an audio tech to produce you a render using $$$ libraries customised in close detail to produce a final, production-ready output (with an actual recording session being an entirely different class again). With this in mind, MS absolutely stomps. I'm genuinely going to stop working on Sibelius now, after 15 years of use, and switch to Musescore because I'm convinced of its readiness for prime time (as far as amateur prime time goes) and how easy it is to make compelling renders at 0 cost
I've been writing a musical this past year using free sound fonts in FL Studio, so when MuseScore4 came out it was like a gift from God handed directly into my lap. Suddenly all the instruments sounded real and swelled correctly and... seriously. This video is amazing, by the way! I love hearing the software pushed to its limits like this! Can you try some pieces with more staccato strings? While the cello sounds good, I'm struggling to get something I really like from the violins. Am I alone in this?
@@WTC2014 Can't seem to find the inspector on Musescore 4, do you know how I could do that? I'm on a Mac. Thanks Edit: I found it! It's called "properties" now.
Can you make the MuseScore 4 file(s) for this available? It would be very interesting to see how the scores are laid out and the instrumentation that is being used.
Help 0:00 - Disney Opening Sequence 0:37 - Beauty and the Beast?* 2:11 - LOTR 2:53 - no idea 3:53 - Prince of Egypt 4:28 - no idea 4:54 - no idea * It's not familiar but it has the "tale as old as time" motif
@robinpark523 is right about 2:53 (Sandman theme, Spider-Man 3) 4:28 is from Pirates: At World's End ("One Day" or I think also "Marry Me Suite" 4:54 is a theme used in Shrek (ex when Shrek kisses Fiona at the end)
Thank you so very much for posting this! I have been for waiting Version 4 for two years. Are these the native sound " fonts" ? (no VST plug in). The sound fonts in version 3 are absolutely horrid. Also - I have been reading that there are issues (bugs) with playback. Have you experienced any? - Best Regards.
I'm a sibelius user mainly with noteperformer 3 but wow... I'm kinda happy to see MuseScore is catching up and honestly.... it's a little better than NP3. But the fact that MuseScore is free is the real kicker. Noteperformer 4 is on it's way out and I hope they're paying attention.
Can you demonstrate how to get the advanced workspace open on Musecore 4? I see you have glissandos in your score, a written explanation would work too. Great video :)
The quality of the reproduction of an orchestra by MuseScore4 is clearly a whole lot better than the quality of film score composers. Holy shit what a crapload of clichés! Kubrick, where are you when the world needs you!
@@leoscott8487 Wow! If that's the case then perhaps I should give MS4 a try (PS: I have been hesitant to download MS4 since some people say it's buggy).
@@captro5803 It is a little buggy at the moment, but it's not going to stay that way. The team working on it are very proactive, and want the best for the community, so stay tuned for updates!
Let's hear MARS the Bringer of War, and the Immolation Scene from Gotterdammerung. Those two really like to choke a system when all of the instruments are playing
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the general sound this FREE software churned out, but this is a compilation of very legato/adagio music. Throw anything staccato-y at the new musescore sounds and your enthusiasm will die down quickly. Again, not saying it's bad (for free software), just giving a heads up to prevent possible disappointment further down the line.
At 5:20 when the contrabass goes fortississimo sounds so good. Reminds me of sitting in church being in awe with the music. Is there a particular reason why that part is so moving?
the most important part is faster graphic workflow, what you can achieve even with 8 bit audio. Sound quality alone can be solved by a daw. I loved the update but got dispointed by not being able to play the instrument, as performance, before writing, and not being able to record. I just hear stacatos, not sus, for whatever i play. Or i dont know how to do it? I can´t believe that Notion 6 is still better then... I mean, the Notion6, the app that never updates and don´t care about you...
0:38 Oh, I know what that is… (At least I got to see you one last time…) (Chip! Chip! He ran off! Oh, where is my little boy?) RIP ANGELA (It was an honor to serve with you) RIP DAVID (The honor was mine) RIP JERRY
People, dont make the mistake to install this version.. i did and it has a lot of bugs and I mean A LOT!, it´s basically useles.. And yes, my computer meets all the requirements. As soon as I started using it, the audio is heard at half the normal speed, with echoes and a crackling sound. It doesn't detect me except 2 external vsts, it doesn't read articulations, diamics etc.. Worst of all, now that I wanted to go back to the previous version, it doesn't read the scores and tells me they were made in a newer version... I lost MONTHS of work... . time to go back to the professionals. NEVER AGAIN MUSESCORE
That's really interesting, I've had quite a positive experience with Musescore 4 on Mac, I'm a Sibelius user and I'm planning to make the switch as Avid hardly change it. Remember it is open source and free, but will get better unlike Sibelius.
One score got left behind and did not make it to the video. Here it is :)
th-cam.com/video/wNoUHKYN9B0/w-d-xo.html
I’ll never get over how beautiful the French horn sound is now
It’s good, but the non legato parts are too legato, and of course anything that puts a horn player out of a job , I have to dislike in a way.
Literally when I would import MuseScore 3 things into Musescore 4, people I showed it to would instanty ask, "What was that instrument?" It was the horn.
French horn is just good
They ruined the oboe sounds 😭
Until MuseScore 5 is released you mean 🙊
I think there's a thing most people I see talking about this on this and other videos are missing: musescore is *NOTATION* software. Notation. It's not a DAW or something similar. The fact it can this well is already incredible.
Not to mention it's completely free. Other softwares that people are mentioning, like Noteperformer, might be better, but those are paid. As an amateur composer/arranger, I'm probably not going to be investing a whole lot of money into notation programs so the fact that we can get this for free is pretty incredible
It sounds a lot more expressive though, because you can tell it exactly the same thing you would tell a performer to play it
Exactly, and to add on it’s such an annoying fact that when mentioning music production with traditional instruments NOBODY mentions MuseScore. They recommend you these VST plugins that costs hundreds or thousands of dollars when this exists for free and even rivals their quality. I am glad I stumbled upon this video, it really shows that MuseScore is truly capable of achieving the best.
For real, the engraving engine is actually incredible. No need to switch samples for different articulations or dynamics, it happens automatically
Wow! What a transformation. The harp gliss. at 1:12 is still pretty wack tho😂
i think its just cuz of how quick it went
@@t1m0thyduk3 No, it's because it's set to chromatic.
Harp gliss needs manual tweaking for it to work properly :)
@@snarf1504 true
in order to achieve nice harp gliss playblack in sibelius, you have to split up the notation and have a manually spelt-out version of notes hidden underneath. not sure if it is doable in musescore 4 too.
This is absolutely spectacular! I don't doubt that you could get a better sound out of a proper VST with a bunch of tweaking, but for an out-of-the-box sound this is genuinely incredible!
You won't need much tweaking tho, scripting of the CS strings is good enough already, they sound way better but also cost 400€ lol
Musescorse VST compatibility is limited. They just added compatibility in the last update and I bet they'll keep improving it though but at the moment there isn't much you can do with it relative to an actual DAW
The other stuff requires you to think more like a computer programmer than a musician. It's been unbelievably frustrating for me. because it was like there was always one step somewhere where I had to wonder "Why the hell isn't this working?". From the ASIO, to Kontakt, to the MIDI controller, to the Focusrite interface, to the lack of support for mp3, to the legato not working right, to the dynamic getting messed up every time I'd export, etc... jesus christ.
If this actually works right, even only half the time and it's good enough to do a little soundtrack for an indie game, or a documentary or an animation? I might be sold. Imagine if you could also do this with notation for guitars, drums, bass and other stuff conventional stuff. Ooo....
The thing that annoys me the very most about any VST orchestra, is actually not the quality of the instruments, but that annoying attack they have on every single note (a volume swell from the start of the note). MS4 letting Muse Sounds understand the phrase helps this so much I'm actually considering seeing if I can render any orchestral bit in MS then bringing it to the daw afterwards.
The problem with I'd say at least 7/10 orchestral VSTis is not that they're samples, but rather the way that they are sampled and programmed is absolutely awful and this has become the standard/tradition for them. Very few outside-the-box thinkers and hardly anyone from the classical music world. As a result, you are forced to make a lot of musical compromises that you shouldn't have to and you basically have to write modern "film music" because that's all the samples can reliably do.
@@ChrisSchmidtComposer That depends on if the composer can actually write for orchestra or just for a DAW.
Y’all would benefit from using cinematic studio’s sample libraries and performance samples, they actually got it right and there are some other great libraries out there, although I’m super glad musesounds exist now, midi just can’t do as well and easily stuff like that, it has more limitations than notation software
Noteperformer with a sample library like this would be awesome!
Winds need a little rebalancing as they're drowned out by the strings, but love the sound in general!
Especially the mid-register instruments like the oboe, english horn, and clarinet are really drowned out. When you're making a huge score like this, you may wanna raise those instruments +6db in the mixer. Maybe they'll fix that in the future idk.
@@RoseCadenza Well that kinda happens in real life too. There is no mixer for an orchestra. It's just 4 people up against 40
@@joshuapettus6973 Good point.
I almost got them all.
0:02 is the Disney Logo Theme
0:37 is “Transformation” (from Beauty and the Beast)
2:53 is “Birth of Sandman” (from Spider-Man 3)
4:29 is “One Day” (from Pirates of the Caribbean: At World’s End)
4:55 is “Transformation/The End” (from Shrek)
But I’m not familiar with the themes at 2:11 and 3:53.
Disney Theme is called "When You Wish Upon Star".
:))
2:11 is from LotR, don't know which song though...
@@michaeltish2485 Opening theme I believe for Lord of the Rings and 3:53 is Zorro's theme (James Horner)
@@michaeltish2485 It's called "Journey to the Grey Havens", one of the most beautiful moments in ROTK
@@Metalpazallteway LotR score is Howard Shore. Some of his best work. Don't get me wrong, love James Horner. The Apollo 13 and Wrath of Kahn scores are fantastic. Was so sad when he passed.
Wow, MuseSounds is the tool we've wanted for a long time. Nothing perfect, just something that actually sounds great when you play it back!
Edit: can you believe this stuff is FREE???
Agreed, it just needs to be good enough to give us a pleasant experience scoring, most of the sound is in our heads/will be in the mockup/in the recordings anyways, it's not supposed to be a final product but good enough so it's not painfully bad
the Transformation track fro Shrek always mesmerize me. It's just too beautiful.
Good God I'm never not amazed by the beautiful Sandman theme.
Oh my goodness, I only recently downloaded MuseScore 4 and the Muse Sounds and listening to the playbacks literally made me start crying. The sound is simply phenomenal.
This is . . . magical. While there are clearly still a few challenges in terms of not giving away that the sound isn't coming from an actual recording (realistic glissandos, the natural flourishes and imperfections that come with a human performance, etc.), this is still utterly incredible.
There are a lot of workarounds you can do to fix the issues you talked about, just visit the discussion page.
Zorro theme and Sandman are definitely my favorite. Thank you for sharing btw. Great work and analysis!!
Love the first one, especially. To test MS4, I imported a bunch of midis from the MIDI Classical Archive and many have balance problems, like the strings are barely audible and horns are too loud, but some of them were pretty good.
It sounds great, especially given that it is using default settings. However, after having heard several examples I believe that NotePerformer still has a better, more musical and expressive playback engine. Of course, it's current samples are not as good as the new MuseScore samples but this will likely change with the upcoming NotePerformer v4.
I second that. Keeping my fingers crossed for NotePerformer 4.
The difference is that musescore doesn't cost 100+ dollars
Musescore is free software, anyone can help develop it, anyone can use it for free in education etc. which is why this is so important
I don't even think MuseSounds competes with NotePerformer. As far as I can tell, MuseSounds is competing against things like Sibelius Sounds and whatever Finale comes with by default, it's a free library that's pretty much out-of-the-box for that software. NotePerformer to me feels like it's more competing with hiring an audio tech to produce you a render using $$$ libraries customised in close detail to produce a final, production-ready output (with an actual recording session being an entirely different class again). With this in mind, MS absolutely stomps.
I'm genuinely going to stop working on Sibelius now, after 15 years of use, and switch to Musescore because I'm convinced of its readiness for prime time (as far as amateur prime time goes) and how easy it is to make compelling renders at 0 cost
I wish you'd been right about this :')
One of the top3 best videos on musesounds!
these sound so good im amazed
Can't wait to hear the Dances With Wolves soundtrack with the new Muse Sounds!
Absolutely incredible update
I've been writing a musical this past year using free sound fonts in FL Studio, so when MuseScore4 came out it was like a gift from God handed directly into my lap. Suddenly all the instruments sounded real and swelled correctly and... seriously. This video is amazing, by the way! I love hearing the software pushed to its limits like this! Can you try some pieces with more staccato strings? While the cello sounds good, I'm struggling to get something I really like from the violins. Am I alone in this?
Astounding.
That one harp gliss. @1:12 playback is set to chromatic instead of diatonic probably.
Are we able to change that in settings of Musescore? I tried writting harp glisses and they all sound so terrible :((
It appears Musescore hasn't supported harp pedals yet, and I'm not sure if the harp pedal plugin works with MuseScore4
@@dburt909 Use the inspector and select the gliss, scroll to bottom and set from chromatic to diatonic, also has other options like pitch bend
@@WTC2014 Thank You very much! It sounds sooo much better :))
@@WTC2014 Can't seem to find the inspector on Musescore 4, do you know how I could do that? I'm on a Mac. Thanks
Edit: I found it! It's called "properties" now.
Can you make the MuseScore 4 file(s) for this available? It would be very interesting to see how the scores are laid out and the instrumentation that is being used.
It truly is amazing.
Very good!!!
Awesome
Amazing! Incredible how this is a free and open source tool.
Amazing.
Help
0:00 - Disney Opening Sequence
0:37 - Beauty and the Beast?*
2:11 - LOTR
2:53 - no idea
3:53 - Prince of Egypt
4:28 - no idea
4:54 - no idea
* It's not familiar but it has the "tale as old as time" motif
2:53 is Sandman's Theme from Spider-Man 3.
@robinpark523 is right about 2:53 (Sandman theme, Spider-Man 3)
4:28 is from Pirates: At World's End ("One Day" or I think also "Marry Me Suite"
4:54 is a theme used in Shrek (ex when Shrek kisses Fiona at the end)
Great video. Incredible sounds.
I would love to have the score to Transformation from Beauty And The Beast. Where did you find it?
What songs/films are all featured?
Thank you so very much for posting this! I have been for waiting Version 4 for two years. Are these the native sound " fonts" ? (no VST plug in). The sound fonts in version 3 are absolutely horrid. Also - I have been reading that there are issues (bugs) with playback. Have you experienced any? - Best Regards.
How did you get brass and harp to sound good?
I'm a sibelius user mainly with noteperformer 3 but wow... I'm kinda happy to see MuseScore is catching up and honestly.... it's a little better than NP3. But the fact that MuseScore is free is the real kicker. Noteperformer 4 is on it's way out and I hope they're paying attention.
Unrelated, but it's funny how in the very first second of the Beauty and the Beast piece I inmediatly recognized it. I love that soundtrack!
Just, WOW!!!!!😢😮😊😅❤
Can you demonstrate how to get the advanced workspace open on Musecore 4? I see you have glissandos in your score, a written explanation would work too. Great video :)
French Horn for life!
Where did you acquire the orchestral scores for transcription? Or is this done by ear?
freelancers
Fiverr is your best friend 😉
Friends at high places xD
OMG!!! The strings are GORGEOUS!! Heck, I think I'm switching from Sibelius..... NOWWWWWW!
Where do you get these full scores from to import? Great video by the way
What is the one at 4:29 from? It sounds fantastic!
I agree!
“One Day” (from Pirates of the Caribbean: At World’s End)
If is it possible can you share with me the scores i want to analyze them
Old scores are going to sound much better!
makes me want to compose an orchestral piece now that it'll actually sound good right off the bat
The quality of the reproduction of an orchestra by MuseScore4 is clearly a whole lot better than the quality of film score composers. Holy shit what a crapload of clichés! Kubrick, where are you when the world needs you!
Do you make audio for movies?
how did you fit the whole score onto one video?
Excuse me, where I can find this score?
What VST is used?
Woooow
Can someone tell me how to import the good brass sounds instead of musescores default brass
Hello! Are all these played using Muse Sounds? Or did you use a VST? If so, what VSTs did you use for some parts? Thank you. Loved your work!
I think all of these are with Muse Sounds.
Yes! :D
@@leoscott8487 Wow! If that's the case then perhaps I should give MS4 a try (PS: I have been hesitant to download MS4 since some people say it's buggy).
@@captro5803 Idk, I think such claims of buggyness are overstated. It's very usable. MS3 wasn't without bugs.
@@captro5803 It is a little buggy at the moment, but it's not going to stay that way. The team working on it are very proactive, and want the best for the community, so stay tuned for updates!
Can you please add the movie title for each section?
Anyone know what the cue at 3:53 is?
Let's hear MARS the Bringer of War, and the Immolation Scene from Gotterdammerung. Those two really like to choke a system when all of the instruments are playing
MuseScore 4 sounds *this* good and it's *FREE* ????? Damn!
1:12 LOL
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the general sound this FREE software churned out, but this is a compilation of very legato/adagio music. Throw anything staccato-y at the new musescore sounds and your enthusiasm will die down quickly. Again, not saying it's bad (for free software), just giving a heads up to prevent possible disappointment further down the line.
could you pass me the musescore projects? or where could i download them? thanks!
Hey mate, can you share the project file for reference?
YES!!
I can't get mine to sound like this, how the heck do you do it?
can I have the score file?
Finally it sounds sort of like an orchestra, though it still lacks the realism of Noteperformer....
Hearing the Disney intro confused me for a second xD
Muse sounds?
At 5:20 when the contrabass goes fortississimo sounds so good. Reminds me of sitting in church being in awe with the music. Is there a particular reason why that part is so moving?
I like the spider man 3 part
I saw incredibles there for a few seconds, why'd you skip it?
It feels wrong. Not because a computer plays it, but the fact that it just feels too perfect.
I can't grasp the power of this process. Will live musicians become useful only for sampling?
1:11 lol
Really this is the musescore’s library???
The harp gliss. at 5:36 is wrong-it should be diatonic, not chromatic.
Here's the "Theme from Jurassic Park" using MuseScore 4! th-cam.com/video/9XfSoBISG_A/w-d-xo.html
FREE
the most important part is faster graphic workflow, what you can achieve even with 8 bit audio. Sound quality alone can be solved by a daw. I loved the update but got dispointed by not being able to play the instrument, as performance, before writing, and not being able to record. I just hear stacatos, not sus, for whatever i play. Or i dont know how to do it? I can´t believe that Notion 6 is still better then... I mean, the Notion6, the app that never updates and don´t care about you...
Meow
musescore has major dynamics interpetation issues with musesound libraries. (it's wonky!)
0:38 Oh, I know what that is…
(At least I got to see you one last time…)
(Chip! Chip! He ran off! Oh, where is my little boy?) RIP ANGELA
(It was an honor to serve with you) RIP DAVID
(The honor was mine) RIP JERRY
I realize that this is way over my head so I seek guidance. What? Is this an app downloadable from the App Store , for making music?
1:12 Harp glissando sounds terrible
Labs and BBC orchestra cryng, this is better
People, dont make the mistake to install this version.. i did and it has a lot of bugs and I mean A LOT!, it´s basically useles..
And yes, my computer meets all the requirements.
As soon as I started using it, the audio is heard at half the normal speed, with echoes and a crackling sound. It doesn't detect me except 2 external vsts, it doesn't read articulations, diamics etc..
Worst of all, now that I wanted to go back to the previous version, it doesn't read the scores and tells me they were made in a newer version...
I lost MONTHS of work... . time to go back to the professionals. NEVER AGAIN MUSESCORE
That's really interesting, I've had quite a positive experience with Musescore 4 on Mac, I'm a Sibelius user and I'm planning to make the switch as Avid hardly change it. Remember it is open source and free, but will get better unlike Sibelius.
I get a crackling sound on startup in both Musescore 3 and 4. Linux tho so I'm just glad it works fine after that