The imagine dragons vibes are definitely there, people just won't admit it because they automatically associate that with being bad. It's not a bad thing tho
Not really, metalcore fans think their community is bigger than it actually is. The amount of Rap fans Fantano has pissed off is enough to make up Sleep Tokens entire fanbase.
@@Harper_Sloane Don't get me wrong, parts of Eden are definitely where they have sounded more like Imagine Dragons than ever, I just think it's funny that he actually went and namedropped them when it's basically a meme at this point
I feel like he meant that to be 8 minutes long and enjoyable, a song has to bring things to the table that a 2 minute song doesn‘t, it‘s like some movies that are good in 80-90 minute form, but would be absolutely unbearable as a 3h movie, whereas other movies will leave you wanting more at longer times
If I heard Fantano's description of The Summoning before hearing the actual song, I'd imagine a song that sounds completely different to the actual Summoning song.
While it wouldn't be MY criticism, I can see what he means by it. It doesn't sound gutteral, and you have an expectation that it should at some point. It does feel a bit two-dimensional.
I like how nik can include his perspective and opinions so well without actually dissing fantano. He can take what fantano says and break it up into what he agrees with and wants to question but it’s respectable
If you love Sleep Token and the Take Me Back to Eden album please go give it a great comment and high review on Rateyourmusic because Fantano's goons are giving the album half stars and 1 stars constantly now since his video trying to destroy the legacy of this modern Metal masterpiece. His name is mentioned in the comments on that page many times. They dropped the high rating (at time of release) from 3.48 to currently a 2.75 and tons of hate comments.
@@eclipses3131 some people are so sensitive that a benign disagreement in opinion now feels like a direct attack on their character. Fantano's opinion shouldn't be a deterrent for liking Sleep Token. And if you think it is, that's not Fantano's fault
@@occams_chainsaw totally agree. Each individual should reach their own conclusions. We should also remember that just because we don’t have the same opinions doesn’t mean that we can’t get along.
True. I haven't actually watched Fantano for a while now. No particular reason for that and he's pointed me towards some good music in the past. I remember disagreeing with some of his opinions about the music he was reviewing but meh! Didn't get butt hurt about it. 2/10 is pretty shocking though. I quite like Sleep Token but have sometimes wondered if they live up to the hype which surrounds them. Not hating on them or anything I just mean that I'm no die hard fan. 2/10? Wow! Doesn't really bother me although I'm sure it will bother some people a lot. You know it's just his opinion right?
The obvious reason which he held onto almost the very end is that he isn't into the vocals. If you don't like them, then you won't probably like any of their records since it's the main driving force
It’s why these youtuber critics mean nothing to me and people gotta stop listening to their opinions like it’s gospel. If you’re gonna be a critic, but not look at it objectively then you might as well just be an average consumer as well since you are looking for something that falls into your specific taste profile
@@EthanRom Music is inherently subjective. No music critic is ever looking at music completely "objectively" and there's nothing wrong with that. If you don't care about their opinions that's totally fine too, but acting like fantano shouldn't do a review on a band just because he doesn't like their vocals is pretty ridiculous.
But this album and sleep token is so overhyped. They are very boring, and their last album sounds like average pop-rock album. Yes it is very like Imagine Dragons but a little more heavy
I'm not an 'orthodox metalhead', but I really can't see how Sleep Token is considered a metal band. For me it's more like a group that can make metal and has a couple metal songs, almost like Poppy? Does that even make sense? lol
Because metal from the jump is unorthodox. Metal shouldn't have a set structure... If it was for set structures then we wouldn't have metal ... I mean think about korn how much hip hoppy jazzy funk is in ALMOST EVERY SINGLE SONG
Maybe the mistake is reducing Sleep Token to "a metal band". They fuse a lot of stuff, and metal guitars and verses are just one part of it. I enjoy metal, I like Sleep Token, but I wouldn't consider them a metal band
I'd probably call it melodic metal if anything. It leans heavy on the synthesized pop vocals whilst having occaisional chugs and riffs, break downs all that good stuff. It's closer to a very processed Evanescence if I'm being entirely honest. I like Sleep token, but if you look at it objectively it's just clean pop vocals over metal guitars and drums. I think the reason that it sounds so fresh is that it uses actual drums instead of samples which most music has come to do as of late and combine that with a weird and honestly jarring first time listening experience with different genres interjected at opportune times it feels like something new. Even though in reality it's just surface level iterations on multiple genres added to a single song. The good thing about ST is that the music is experimental with the meshing of genres will certainly be a great gateway band to many people who have never heard metal before. But at the same time, because it's surface level stuff you wont find a satisfying payoff as you might with Slaughter to Prevail or Lorna shore on the breakdowns. Just listen to Will Ramos' cover of Choke hold. The aggression in the break down adds so much more to the emotion of the song making it feel more complete.
Watching this stream live on Twitch, while you were commenting & trying to hold it together, was hilarious. We were going off in the comments. You probably had to make sure some didn't appear in your video. 😂 Always keeping it real, Nik. You're a gem in the world of metal.
Twelve foot ninja is sort of a blend between faith no more and meshuggah from what I remember lol, tossing Prince in there would definitely be insane too
I just looked at all the albums he gave a 10/10 to and he definitely has a bias towards certain eras and genres. So i’m not sure why him or his fans bother with things along these lines
@@the_furry_inside_your_walls639 I mean, Amo is actually a great album for what it is trying to be. Evaluating it based on something it isn't is quite dumb.
I too hear Imagine Dragons specifically on Chokehold (and I do not like ID) but then I hear Tool in the beginning vocal section of The Summoning, then later in the album I hear Evernescencsece and even Sevendust on Apparition… and Vore is basically a love song to Deftones in almost every way. They are very much an amalgamation, and they do it very well and with their own twist - But it’s a great album (not without its dips) and it shows growth. I’m a fan.
The thing with Fantano is he likes his metal as abrassive and raw as there is. I respect his tastes, but a proghead will never see eye to eye with a black metal fan. I like my music calculated and lifeless.
That’s fine, but as a reviewer he should be objective. The fact that he has a preference against cleanly recorded work means he is automatically listening to the work with a bias. Like you said as a prog head, musicians work hard to get good takes and perfect their craft, it’s sad that such effort is only to be labelled “lifeless”
It only bugged me when even every single TH-cam artist started sounding like bands that went into the studio. As if every artist, amateur or professional, is now using the same axe-fx and same drum samples. But i still love the sounds of calculated and lifeless haha
@@EthanRom that's not really true - as a music critic he has a right to be subjective about his takes, and at the end of the day it's just his opinion, as he states in every video.
@@EthanRom no review is ever objective lmao his job is to give his opinion. You cannot have an objective opinion, especially not about art. That's the beauty of it
This should be entertaining. As a metal head who just got pulled in on this album, this is hilarious. All the things Fantano dislikes are the things I love about this album. Just goes to show how different people enjoy different things. I love the THALL wha, wha, wha, wha, in the chokehold riff. That's what hooked me on the singles. Vore's blackgaze sound takes me back to finding The Atlas Moth. Im a huge fan of prog, BTBAM are one of my favorite bands of all time. To each his own.
If you love Sleep Token and the Take Me Back to Eden album please go give it a great comment and high review on Rateyourmusic because Fantano's goons are giving the album half stars and 1 stars constantly now since his video trying to destroy the legacy of this modern Metal masterpiece. His name is mentioned in the comments on that page many times. They dropped the high rating from 3.48 (at time of release) to currently a 2.75 and tons of hate comments.
My fav is Aqua Regia. I also understand that the style blend, especially in this track isn't for everyone and that's fine. But for me it's *the* hidden gem I didn't know I needed.
I think a lot of people here don't fully get why people critique art. Everyone has likes and dislikes, and none of them are objective. We can argue for our cases by using metrics of what we value in art, but in the end, it's all just our subjective human experience. When people like Fantano (or just anyone who enjoys media criticism) talk about music, it's not to make other people hate an artist, or make anyone feel bad, but to have a conversation about what makes art compelling to them personally. These takes are never anything more than personal opinion. If you don't find those kinds of conversations fun, that's fine, but there are plenty people who enjoy talking about what art they like and dislike and develop an understanding of why we connect with some works of art and not with others. Everyone is fine with people critiquing movies or video games because it's easy to point at something and say "That plot makes no sense" or "This gameplay is jank", but since music as an artform is a lot more nebulous, people find it a lot harder to properly pinpoint why they like or dislike something. That is all that people who enjoy critiquing art are doing in the end.
That's not to say Fantano is beyond criticism either, you can just as well critique him for not properly reasoning his opinions. And I would sometimes agree with you. There are many points Fantano makes that I think are nonsense. And this, again, is all part of the conversation around art. But don't just say he's a hater or a contrarian. Anyone who has watched his stuff for a while knows what he tends to like and this was a very predictable review. There are PLENTY of acclaimed records that he also loves, but this particular brand of modern, cleanly-produced rock and metal is just not his taste. There are many rock and metal albums he loves, but those tend to be very stylistically and aesthetically different from ST.
@@PookySeinAccount fantano just has bad criticisms of rock music in general so it's hard not to say he is biased. His criticism of emo,post rock, math rock are terrible and often when he has the same criticism towards genres such as pop and hip hop it doesn't affect the score as much. They get such a bigger pass for things such as being "polished,refined, catering to mainstream trends of the genre" etc. I imagine he is doing the same for metalcore.
@@GoodByeSkyHarborLive Yeah, for sure. But that's basically my point. He's biased towards what he likes. He doesn't like clean rock/metal, but has no issue with clean pop. That part's fair enough, but I do agree he doesn't always properly communicate that in his reviews.
It's also important to remember we judge/rate music based on what we already know or have heard. Clearly, Fantano has listened to more music than most people and has a more broad sense as well as knowledge when it comes to a lot of genres. His ratings are a result of all the music he's listened to which mean if he finds sleep token bad, they're bad because he knows the music in that genre can be much better. He doesn't hate rock even though you think he does. He just has higher expectations 🤷♀
See, I disagree to an extent. Absolutely, a persons subjective taste will influence their outlook, but a good critic knows how to push that aside and look at art objectively. If a critic can't find anything good to say about an objectively good piece of art solely based on their subjective bias, that critic shouldn't be listened to. Basically, my main point is that this viewpoint that all art is purely subjective isn't a good one, and it's commonly used as a cop-out to avoid personal criticism.
@tigers in your lungs I listened to it on a bus, I feel asleep like halfway which is impressive because 1. I can almost never fall asleep in a sitting position, 2. I cant fall asleep with headphones listening to music. So I guess Sleep Token is an appropriate name lol
Totally agree with Nik’s opinion. I’ve been listening to ST since 2018 and their sound and ways of mixing different genres together is expanding so much with time. Thankfully that’s not hurting them at all. On the opposite, they got so big with the last release.
I watched maybe 10 of Anthony's videos like 10 years ago and that was all I needed to realize I would never agree with him. Glad to see that trend is still going
I actually enjoy watching him because he challenges me to question the very thing I’m listening too. Sometimes I hear a record and I think it’s a 8 or 9 out of 10 or I think it’s a 2 out of 10 and Fantano comes thru and delivers a 6. It makes me go back and at least question some of the things I thought were amazing or bad about records. Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I don’t, and sometimes he helps me to enjoy things I might hate. I don’t think it’s a good idea to watch fantano with the intent of agreeing with a score. I think it’s better to do what Nik is doing here and just listen to his statements, see where he’s coming from, then form your own opinion.
@@collinqs2541 I get what you mean. But I prefer coming to my own conclusions without anyone else's input, I guess. I haven't watched or read a review (barring this Sleep Token review) in a long time
Funny how we all enjoy different things. Like you said, I can understand what he means by some of the comments, but all the things he hated are things I absolutely love about this album. I'm obsessed with this album, easily a 10/10 for me. It has been a long time since I was this excited about a band. Let's all remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.
finally a reasonable comment, you said its a 10/10 FOR YOU. whereas most of these mouth breathing hipsters are saying that this album is the best thing (insert any metal band that has survived the past 2-3 decades) and while the album is okay, its still extremely divisive. those who seem to like it are WAY over praising it and those who dont like it simply are saying "its okay, not bad but not nearly as amazing as these people are making it out to be" ...the cool thing right now is to worship sleep token, if you arent saying they are the best band in the modern era then you are behind the times and uncultured, thats how these people are acting
@@mattcubed9658 I think people are just extremely feed up with seeing their name everywhere and the rabid fanbase that built around them. I don't really hate them, i find that album really boring and meh but not ofensively bad by any means, but at that point i just can't stand hearing about them and especially comparisons to some absolute god tier records/bads.
@@bartoszbartosiewicz1123 They literally only got big from this album cycle. You literally only heard about them cause they got famous a few months ago. Your "tired of seeing them everywhere" take is unjustified, especially your weird "better bands" remark like that says anything.
It is wild to me that this band has garnered so much weird controversy and discussion just now. Sleep Token has sounded like this since their first album, each one has been consistently great and stuck with a very fine tuned unique sound.
@@joeylummox7330 Bro what???? Post and ST have almost nothing in common whatsoever. Not sonically, not lyrically, not vocally, not instrumentally. Like they objectively do not sound the same AT all. Are you secretly Fantano?
band is only good to pseudo intellectuals who know little to nothing about music. putting pop music into metal, doesnt make you good.. it makes you an asshole.
"Y'all know this is just my opinion, right?" Is the most important part of theneedledrop that many people tend to forget. It sits there in the description of every review for a reason.
When you say something objectively incorrect though, then it isn't just an opinion anymore. Like it is my opinion that the grass is red and the sky is green.
@@KyleMcMullan_Musicianyou know, I have to agree with you especially when it comes from that guy. That same dude rated 3 incredibly mediocre - shitty albums above one of the all time great rock opera albums (American Idiot). Dudes opinion on that is objectively wrong.
Its refreshing to see critics as well as other people finally say something about this specific direction of "metal" that this band is trying to push on. There really isn't anything to this music, it's just a money grab project that does what sells and nothing else. It consists mostly of really sub par pop music with occasional cheesy modern metal cliches sprinkled in. Not to even mention the unlistenable vocals.
Exactly what I hate about modern metal, overproduced and way too popp-y. Not that pop is always bad but it doesn't work in this case. Someone who can actually blend pop and metal is Poppy
Okay..I'm not gonna lie. I get exactly what he's saying with the Imagine Dragons reference. I also agree with what he says about them definitely sounding like they're from today. They definitely go for the 'big' sound like Devin Townsend for example but it feels like more forced emotions to me. I just recently listened to them for the very first time and I could tell pretty quickly it wasn't really my style but I also wasn't surprised that I keep hearing about them all the time now based off of how they sound. Not for me but good for them for their success!
I mean I will say to one of the later comments, Fantano was a big alternative kid growing up, it's something he's brought up on occasion. He even played bass for some small band that he was a part of back then. So I'd say he has pretty decent alternative credentials actually, at least as much as most fans and even players when it comes to the scene as a whole. I just think whenever he's had more critical perspectives like this with an act coming off more processed or contemporary, I just feel it's him showing that he doesn't really care for the usual, yk? Like he can appreciate contemporary music as a whole, he's given good scores and general reviews to more pop-centric/more mainstream appeal albums. It just feels like he usually doesn't care much for genre mashing unless they're an artist is really trying to be sort of super adventurous with it. Which mind you, can still fall flat for him ofc, but at least that's more where his tastes lie from whenever I see takes like this from him, whether I've enjoyed the project much more than him or not. (Also side note, he actually sort of messes with BMTH actually, though more pick and choose for him, but he really enjoyed that 2020 record Post Human: Survival Horror just to give you a small metric.)
Even then he gives kudos and respects the attempt made to try something outside of the ordinary. (happened with A7X's latest album which he put as the worst album of 2023 but commended the band for trying)
It's like Bogdan said in his reaction to the new I See Stars singles. People are spoiled nowadays. Everyone expects every new thing that gets put out nowadays to be some 11/10 genre defining/innovating masterpiece but it doesn't need to be, it can just be something that sounds good and that's it
I feel like that's what Sleep Token are going for though, to define a or the genre! Sometimes, when you shoot for the stars you end up face planting, and that's ok, some people are into that
Definitely with you on how the song Are You Really Okay is in terms of sound and it was my least favourite of the album- I did love the lyrics. Vore is a big favourite of mine along with Chokehold. And big fan of the wah wah sounds, it's very pleasing to my brain lmao.
plus he complained about mixing metal, rap and pop elements and that it sounds boring or generic ,but then he also loves bmth's new stuff like??? on paper theyre doing the same thing his reasoning dont make sense
I mean if you listen to what he said at the beginning by calculated he was referring to the amount of production/processing, something can be very sonically chaotic and all the layers be "calculated" in that sense
I can absolutely understand WHY people don't like ST and their new record. But god damn I have had that bitch on repeat since it came out. I agree with Nik where a lot of Fantano's criticisms just don't feel like criticism. I've been a fan of heavy music for almost 20 years now, and one of the things that I love about ST is that they just sound like a project. EVERY band that has ever done an interview has said at some point "we dont go into the studio with a blueprint, we wrote what felt natural" I feel like ST actually does that. It sounds like they make the songs they want to make. and a lot of their tunes have a lot of that "what if we try this?" in it and its so fucking refreshing to hear that. They aren't the first to do it, obviously bands like FNM, Mr. Bungle, Dog Fashion Disco, etc all excel at this and have been around far longer, but ST is such a treat and have a very different sound than the others listed. Also one other thing I love is that when you get past the surface of the band and look into all the nods and easter eggs in their songs that reference their other music, it is a really fun experience. I've never really felt a band give me that feeling before.
Very well said. I’m also a fan of very heavy music. I often get bored of it tho cuz after a while a lot it is just more of the same. This album has blown me away tho. I’ve listened to the entire album at least once a day since it came out. It’s refreshing and when I’m listening to it it gives me a transcending feeling like as if I’m being raptured. Lol
@@joshuabalsavage4695that’s how I feel too. Like I’m being transported, somewhere in space/another dimension. I don’t need them to be perfect, there are some stylistic choices that aren’t my favourites..in fact Im glad there’s room for growth and improvement. But overall I feel like they create this atmosphere I lose myself in. Older AFI, Opeth and a few other bands have this effect on me.
It's especially weird because he doesn't have consistent takes when it comes to Pop music. He doesn't think the Weeknds last album was "overly processed". Yet it undeniably is.
yeah, this is the most frustrating part of the review or his reviews in general. similarly with his DGD reviews, he calls them super processed... but the pop music gets a total pass if theyre very processed or too "tight" lol
I think it has to do with the genre. He likes a bunch of pop/rap stuff, but when it comes to metal, he seems to gravitate towards the more “abrasive”/“raw sounding metal. And I think it makes sense, as a genre partially defined by being loud, distorted, and screamed/yelled, you can see how that would lend itself more to more uncontrolled displays of emotion rather than “prettily produced” stuff. Of course, that doesn’t mean that the only correct way to do metal is that uncontrolled display of emotion, but I definitely wouldn’t see thinking these elements don’t fit metal as a “contradictory” or “hipocritical” take to have when you like these elements elsewhere.
It's because Fantano only likes the raw side of metal, and he is not bothered bysomething having heavier production when it ocmes to pop. His job is not to be objective, objective critics are boring af to watch, his job is to be true to HIS taste, because the people that follow him supposedly have similar taste. That's the whole point of following a critic, to see what someone with YOUR taste thinks about this or that, but for some reason people that disagree with his views watch him regularly.
Exactly my thoughts . Aside from metal he always hates any other music type that isn’t processed and polished but since this is considered metal he hates all of it I guess.
It’s a genre thing I think, he holds metal and pop records to completely different standards, it’s like how a ‘raw’ sounding pop record is just not gonna sound like a pop record, but metal that is produced like a pop record is not good at being a metal record to him
Fantano giving it a 2 is better than him giving it a 5. If he really dislikes it, it atleast was impactful enough to leave a (negative) impact. That's better than a bland 5. Now he admits it's unique, but not his jam, rather than nothing special. I also agree with most of his takes, even compared them to Imagine Dragons to my friends well before his review. But just like Nik says, I don't see how it's a bad thing. Solid album, 8 to 9 outta 10, Apparition is a banger.
didn't even say that..and i'm saying this as someone that doesn't even watch the guy and that generally disagrees with almost every take he has about metal
I guess having the big nerd of all on the internet music wise is truly a compliment for a band like them... I don't even watch Fantano regularly unless I'm truly bored or just found something I wanted to see.
Fantasamo is entirely correct in his review. I say that liking some parts of the record, but the combination of genres is really horrible and they just don't go well with one another.
Not because you don't like it that it doesn't go together. I understand you don't like it but yes, it does go well together. It's just like the last a7x album, for example we love you, which goes from one point to another. Or even a system of a down, that is super weird. Well it's the same thing here but a bit more complex and kind of ''intellectual'', like prog/alt and it does go well together. I'd say it's a pretty good band too when you want to start metal, you're not being directly into a hard thrash heavy core thing metal you know, it's kind of chill at moments and you still got really heavy, chunky and powered riffs that are absolutely tasteful.
Let's remember that EVERYTHING IS SUBJECTIVE IN MUSIC. if he doesn't like it, don't hate him. Same thing with us, if we don't like something he likes, don't attack him. We have different tastes and that is all
It depends how you express those opinions. If you're an obnoxious a-hole about it then that certainly does reflect back on you (or "oneself"). And I have seen livestream clips where Fantano fits that description so I'm not a big fan.
Fanatno presents his opinion on a pedestal. He frequently shits on bands and criticises stuff that’s newly released from smaller artists (aka not Taylor Swift) which can really hurt them. I don’t know why you’re riding for him so hard, people can criticise him and his opinion and they can be harsh about it just like he often is. You really don’t need to state the obvious “MUSIC IS SUBJECTIVE” as if critics, him included, haven’t called a whole bunch of music objectively awful.
Everything he said was a negative I thought was a positive. I love a big sounding mix. The vocal is thick and hits strong. You don't need to be experimental to make a good song. The fact that they didn't break ground in any of the genres they borrowed is neither a positive or negative. Honestly, the fact that this got a 2 when he gave Metallica a 5 (when they just shit out identical sounds as they have for a decade almost) is embarrassing IMO
I don't mind the mix as much, altough I prefer a rather raw sound, probably why Black Metal and Screamo are my favorite genres. I could see myself listening to Sleep Token though if not for the vocals. The vocals are what's absolutely killing it for me, just can't stomach them for some reason.
@@ThundraBoy666 I think that's fair. I also like that sometimes, my taste profile is fairly wide. What really rubs me the wrong way with Fantano is that he is very inconsistent at times. If anyone but Metallica (or another big act that he happens to like) shit out identical albums, he would weight that heavily and rate them low.
I mean the RNB part of The Summoning is indeed the best part it fits so well it's a very sensual and sexy song then turned to 11 when he hits the RNB style vocals. It doesn't feel forced and it feels very natural. Not my style of metal but I think Take Me Back To Eden is a great album anyway.
I respect pretty much any musician of almost any genre and acknowledge their creativity and talent even if their music is not exactly what I enjoy listening. That being said I genuinely came up with Image Dragons comparison myself :D
kinda hypocritical because their latest stuff have a lot of his negative points about sleep token in it. like the mixing of a lot of genres and what he called generic sterile pop rock. i love bmth and st ,just kinda think his reasoning is hypocritical lol
I swear if they would have just recorded it on a walkie talkie Fantano would have said it’s one the most innovative and best metal albums of the last decade
Fantano has some weird takes when it comes to metal and rap sometimes. He’s a huge Death Grips fan (who I find to be unlistenable), so it kinda says a lot about his opinion. But he just seems like a cringe black metal elitest. His metal takes are usually off
I think the best part for me is how serious everyone is about their opinion about Sleep Token lately 😂 Like every second dude that I've talked to or seen online has this huge mega incredibly important passionate opinion about why they like or dislike the band. Like my man, calm down, like it or leave it and move on. Nobody really cares about your opinion. I like their sound, so I'm into it, end of 🤷🏼♂️😂
As someone who kinda just started listening to sleep token coming from slipknot i didn't seem attracted to listen to them until i did and now i cant stop they are catchy and pleasing to hear i don't even care what genre they are because i like most of their songs old and new i love the vocals and the build up to the more aggressive parts but i have never listened to a band that sounds more unique than sleep token
Good take, because the issue with them being compared to Imagine Dragons is that we have never heard a band with LESS unique sounds. You can literally find all of Imagine Dragons sounds in the base version of Fruityloops.
@@youlikefeetbruh that’s exactly WHY they sound like imagine dragons lol every element they take is like the most generic and bland version of those sounds and the only thing “unique” is the way they combine and structure those sounds. Stacking a bunch of different slices of white bread on top of each other doesn’t give it more flavor. Imagine Dragons is soulless processed epic emotionally baiting pop “”rock”” and that’s exactly what sleep token is they just added random modern metal sounds and threw it all in a progressive song structure.
Damn dawg thats a tough opinion. I’ve been so into this album and replayed it like 10 times already. We all have our right to our opinion though. Still a light 2?! Gah damn.
I donno NED i didnt realize you needed to have some kind of drgree to be able to listen to something and give an opinipn on it. Thr album isnt that great, im sorry if you don't feel that way but this album is not the second coming of christ pepple make itnout to be so when your average metal head / music lover listens to it after hearing nonstop about how itanthe best thing to be relased in thebpast decade, your average person who isnt can boying and shilling for it will listen to it and go " its alright , i dont see why pelple are hyping it up" this album and this band are so boring no wonder they call them sleep token, it sounds like music you would play to put a robot to sleep. To me it sounds like someone told AI to make hipster metal
what i appreciate Nik doing here, and it's something that people in the comments don't seem to ever understand, is that he knows that this is just Fantano's opinion and his tastes don't have to line up with yours. he doesn't like an album? well you should still listen to it see if you think differently. He's just a guy that listens to music and that's all he's ever potrayed himself as
I can't believe I agree with Fantano about something, but here we are. The over-processed 'peanut butter stuck to the roof of your mouth' vocals are the nail in the coffin for me.
Bro 100%, im with you on this one. I am very surprised by the hype of this album, but hey, gotta let people enjoy what they enjoy. Fantanos comments resonated with me tho, i completely get his perspective.
@@krazedzombies it really doesnt have much to do with that at all. there are plenty uk singers in this genre that dont sound like this. its simply his stylistic choice.
@@gintuner4371 gotcha, sounds like I was just off base then. I definitely know what sound you're talking about. I just clocked it a few days ago, because I've spent so much time singing along to their music that it finally clicked. Vessel holds his voice in the back of his throat, which produces a choked sound, it sort of amplifies the desperation of their lyrics, adding a sense of pain that reminds (me) of someone on the verge of crying Edit: I misspelled off base and just noticed
Then people like Fantano should recognize this and not say things that are objectively untrue. Stick in subjective territory and all is well or he just sounds stupid.
Fantano actually likes a lot of BMTH's new material, especially Post Human. Generally hes become more positive on them as their career has moved along. Not making a case for anything just a fun fact
My issue with them is they genuinely do blend a lot of different things… I just think if u isolate each thing they are doing they aren’t doing it very well
Same. I think they instrumentally present the genre mixture well (sometimes not), but I don’t think Vessel has the voice to truly pull off the RnB parts in a lot of their songs
EXACTLY THIS! ST just does barebones blends of genres that are just lacking in everything that makes them shine. Every song feels like listening to an identity crisis.
I just listened to Sleep Token for the first time; after two separate people mentioning them to me. For me, Sleep Token is like a metal version of Imagine Dragons
I think its a good point about it being each genres surface level stuff and that being enough as far as innovation goes. But its *the beginning*. And not just for ST, but for other bands and indivudual members who have those diverse backgrounds to feel secure in learning to combine the deeper parts of each genre and still finding an audience who is more than willing, starving even, to embrace it and stand by them as they experiment. Its just like the 2010s with the abundance of ballerinas getting into poledance. Eventually people of other dance backgrounds got into aerial silks and lyra and pole, and combined the skills of all of them to make performances. Cirque du Soliel is also an example of this. When circus performance was starting to die, this weird little concept appealed to americans who didnt know the langauge, when they deigned to use it. It had mass appeal and instilled wonder. It used to only be on at 3 am on an odd channel in the 2000s. Dont underestimate the diversity and innovation that will bring in mass appeal.
Oh god, the sections that blend genres are taking the most generic, boiler plate, uninspired, easy-to-make sound from each of those genres, then doing nothing interesting with them, and then pretending that just having them on a metal album makes it interesting. It doesnt. At it's core it is generic, uninteresting songwriting. Also the lyrics are teeeeeerrible to me, don't understand how anyone could find then "deep" in any regard. The vocals are veeeerrrrry cringe. ALTHOUGH I totally respect what you said about the world of pop and the world of metal opening themselves up to each other. Fully support that. You know what? Prehaps this album is the trojan horse to make that happen, BUT i pray to god that Sleep Token's album spawns some far more creative artists out of it's influence.
His critiques of the album are so bizarre that if he didn't have such a negative tone to his voice, 90% of what he says sounds like compliments and positive points to the album.
the other 10% are just really random personal sounding gripes like "I feel like I'm in a prison" ... why? It's music, why would you ever even approach it from any kind of angle where you would feel like you're put in a prison? I would have to go into any kind of music with a VERY specific headspace in order to feel that way. If anything the album feels the toal opposite to prison-like. Its exploration of genre feels liberating and cathartic. It's so frustrating and tiring hearing people argue about genre, so for a band to just express themselves through so many different sounds is like one giant breath of fresh air.
I was fully expecting fantano to dislike the album, I was just a bit frustrated because as with the Vore point it really seemed like he went into it not wanting to give it a chance
@@McKillaboy Nah he ain't about all that. He's pretty honest when it comes to his opinions and he hadn't cared for any of their stuff before this either so I saw this coming. I personally though do agree that it's not a 2, 5 though yes.
I think this is a difference of musical tastes between people. Which means that the reason some people love the album is the same as the reason some hate it. It is just what it is. It is pointless to argue when that happens
I think if you personally don’t like an album to where you can’t review objectively and unbiased then don’t review it at all. You don’t have to like something, but making baseless comparison and outlandish complaints is just weird. Esp when he gives Death Grips a 10. Shit might be very unique but it’s very hard to listen to. I genuinely can’t listen to a single DG song cause it gives me a headache.
@@kevindellatore If someone doesn't like something, they don't like it. This whole "judge it objectively" argument doesn't make any sense just because you don't agree with the comparisons made of the album. Listening to the album myself, I honestly agree with most of what Fantano has to say and I don't think it is any form of bias to say he didn't like the music because he didn't like the music. And then you go after his Death Grips review like that doesn't just prove the point it is all opinions. Plenty of people love it and it isn't just some hipster ironic love. All reviews are opinions.
@@kevindellatore There is no such thing as no bias and there is also no such thing as an objective review. You're trying too hard to rationalize your own brought in delusions with stuff like "he likes dg which i dont like". You are being very biased and subjective yourself
Sleep Token fans are starting to sound like Kpop stans the way they can't handle valid critiques. They're going to blow up and have already, no doubt about it, so good for them. They've seriously lost me though, the Imagine Dragons comparison was hilarious but extremely accurate. High Water's outro will always be a banger though, but this album just aint it. I don't even think it is fair to call this a metal album. If an album is majority rock/pop with a couple of breakdowns (not even a common attribute of metal, but hardcore) is it even fair to call this a metal album. I don't think so.
I haven't gotten into comments, in fact, I've never listened to Sleep Token. But the thing for me is exactly what Nik points in the video. Fantano's and similar people's fans get on "elements" of songs (like it being proccessed) and decide that because they don't like it, it fits into a narrative where it is bad music. And man they are so annoying in real life
@@markbyrd7710stop being such a simp my guy. There is nothing inherently bad about being compared to ID. They are a capable modern rock/pop bands that have made decent songs.
I don't know why the Imagine Dragons comparison has anyone up in arms. I heard ST for the first time with this album, and literally my first thought was "This sounds like a heavy version of Imagine Dragons". It seems pretty obvious to me.
Please do more of these EFAP style breakdowns of music reviews. I think it's really interesting listening to people's arguments and figuring out whether they're valid or not.
@@AMikeStein Omg I cannot STAND mauLer or EFAP. It’s a breeding ground for conservatives and casual racism/ sexism. Just like critical drinker it’s a rabbit hole of bigotry. I go to Luke Stephens or Joseph Anderson for game criticism and YMS or Sean Chandler for film criticism. Both are just as analytical without the absolutely twisted far right dogma. If a film critic is crying about something being “woke” you can immediately dismiss the criticism as bias towards disgusting far-right leaning ideals.
@@TheMetalOtaku They’re bigots and conservatards. I know Nik is a lefty so it would go great if he did it in that style and it wouldn’t be crying about “wokeness” at all.
After I first listened to Sleep Token when their first album dropped, my sentiments were the same as Fantanos. The music does have the vibe of an industry plant created for metal fanboys by a product marketing group. I totally get the Imagine Dragons reference in terms of just kinda stealing all the surface elements from what’s laying around the genre. Honestly, I just thought their music was boring.
Agreed about the industry plant concept. They are surprisingly polished after such a short spanning career so far. They clearly have a big budget for studio time and high production values. They saw what Ghost did with the masked identity concept and took it a step further. That secret identity thing is used as a tool to get fans to overlook how polished and soulless some of the deliveries come across.
@@taylorpilewski they’ve been going over five years, three albums and lots of touring. Plus vessel has been in a critically successful band before.. but yeah, industry plant with short career
@@thomo2127how is that even a question? This genre of music obviously sells. Do you think a record label is above manufacturing an income stream just because of its genre?
I'm honestly with Anthony on this one. Sleep token's videos have millions upon millions of views, but only 411k subs on youtube and 668k followers on Spotify. Kinda goes to show the type of people that listen to this band as a whole, casual listeners. Now that's not irrelevant from Periphery and Tesseract both having less combined followers, about 220k a piece, but their views normally equate to mostly subbed views. Sleep Token's music is curated for a specific type of person, it's very trendy and well polished. I DON'T THINK IT'S TRASH, but I definitely don't think they outclass TesseracT in terms of musicianship, or Periphery in terms of music production and behind the scenes work.
The vocal delivery on DYWTYLM I think is where I would agree with him, it leans towards Lewis Capaldi runs and timbre before leaning for a Caribou or I guess M83 (I’m drawing those comparisons because of the sequenced synth the vocals on the song)
@@sendingit2601 Its overproduced to the extent of lacking emotion. Humans are imperfect, thats why people like Fantano or me, prefer songs that have edges and a certain roughness. But Imagine Dragons and these guys sandblast their songs, taking away any depth.
@@datmarsu7020Why is rawness the only form of depth? Pink Floyd processed the hell out of their vocals and instruments towards the end of the '70s but I never see their music called soulless. If the processing is there to help create the sound you want for the song or album, go for it. Sleep Token doesn't give me the impression they want to be a raw little indie band combining their favourite genres. They very clearly want to be a larger than life, somewhat over the top band. They're going for a certain affect and the processing serves that aim.
@@datmarsu7020 if this point had any amount of merit, Daft Punk wouldn't be the most famous music production duo in the history of Music. Their sound is very processed, and very polished. But you are not going to sit there and tell me Alive 2007, Human after all, Bring Life back to Music, that they have no depth. Thats ridiculous.
I totally agree that it’s more than enough to have fused genres in an innovative way. But also… when thinking about reinventing within the genre itself.. doesn’t that usually manifest itself as the drawing in of influences from elsewhere? So they seem like the same thing to me. Idk it genuinely feels like people are reaching for reasons to hate on ST.
Yeah generally reinventing genres kinda means properly fusing genres. I honestly dont know that you could entirely reinvent a genre without. He seems to almost expect ST to reinvent hip hop, metal and alternative individually, then fuse them together
also like, there's only so much people can do. how do you re-invent a whole genre REALLY? and if you did truly reinvent it, then would it not be a DIFFERENT genre? I feel like people take shit too seriously sometimes. Which is fine, if you wanna take your music that seriously cool. Me, i just listen to stuff i like. if it sounds good to me, cool. i like it. now maybe i'm not that bright or educated or sophisticated or whatever. but honestly, at the end of the day, i don't really care. i listen to what i like because it makes me happy, and that's enough for me
Once you listen to bands like Sigh, Blut aus Nord, and Maudlin of the Well, the way Sleep Token fuses genres becomes laughable. It is possible to blend metal and other genres, but Sleep Token completely misses.
He actually rates a lot of Bring Me lol. He loved Post Hunman and really dug Amen. Never know what you will get with Fantano. He triggers and challenges my own opinions at times but I am learning to embrace that this is part of enjoying the art of music and having unique tastes and different constitutions as humans. Great content Nik, I chuckled a few times ;) I also would be lying if I said Fantano doesn't sometimes infect me with his perspective on songs lol.
Lots of respect for the opinion of Fantano but he shouldn't JUst criticize, he should also give us the parts that he Does like so we can see his taste and reasons behind his opinions more.
i was the same way with the sickness from disturbed. i remember how much i listened to that when i was in hs, but i listened through it again recently and it's not good lol
After that, I'm driving to McDs to get a McRib menu and a double Cheeseburger. Fantano's review doesn't phase me at all, life's great and so is Sleep Token's new album. Worship 😆
I'm about to go to In-N-Out and get a double cheeseburger animal style. I'll be blasting Sleep Token the whole way and have my windows down in the drive thru screaming Vore. 😂
@@GREENWARRI0R I think it's more to the effect of people not liking being told that what they enjoy is dogshit. It's one thing to not agree with people but to present that in the most abrasive way you can is always going to make people who like that thing mad. That's why whenever I wanted to be an asshole online the most reliable thing to piss people off was to find out what they liked and made fun of it.
I honestly agree with him on 90% of that. I was really intrigued by sleep token and even liked a few songs in their discography but this album fell flat for me i could not get into it. Vore was ok but the rest didnt do much for me.
True, but a lot of people just like a more natural sound. Like imo, Converge sounds more heavy than modern stuff even though Jane Doe came out 20 years ago because of the mixing
@@maddoxhallums4869natural? do you dislike his use of electronic production and instrumentation? or are you saying the body and structure of the song itself is unnatural? or vessel’s vocals?
@@pointblank4937 Yeah I think a lot of the instrumentation sounds kind of dull, guitars are way too down-tuned and over the top, vocals are inauthentic and over-processed. There are some highlights for me though, like most of the Summoning and the piano in Aqua Regia
For myself, whenever i listen to Sleep Token i just want to turn it off and go back and listen to old school Type O Negative. I get the same "feel" from Sleep Token as Type O/Pete Steele (RIP). I also feel that it is very over-produced, but that does seem to be a trend (of all music genres) these days.
Aww. The reasonable comparison to Imagine Dragons made you big mad…grow up. There’s tons of that 2010s radio indie vibe in their music whether you like to admit it or not.
Gotta be honost, I agree with fantano. I think people are so anxious to jump on whatever to the newest craziest sounding thing in metal is and dub it "the future" of metal bc that's just how stale metal has been for a while but this band does not do any one thing very well and it just sounds tacky and gimmicky. And the vocals are cringey AF.
I agree about people eager to hop on trends, but for my ears and my money metal hasn't gotten stale. It absolutely continues to blow my mind. Others milage may vary of course.
@@joeylummox7330 I feel the hardcore scene in particular has had an explosion of new great bands. But I feel metal in general has gotten so processed and cookie cutter..literally every metalcore or deathcore band is a clone of itself. I think the last band that had a truly original sound was zeal and ardor...but even they kind of missed the mark..but the combination of metal and slave hymns had so much potential. I feel like they were the sleep token of 5 years ago haha. But right now if any band deserves attention it's bloodywood
@@kennethmartinez1167 here's still plenty of bands coming out making meat and potatoes metal and doing it well to varying levels of success, sure it's kind of niche but for my ears and my money I've never once in four decades been listening to metal and thought "boy this is getting kinda stale" others milage may vary.
@@kennethmartinez1167I really like 2010's 'underground' metal however it's really unlikely for that blow up like the hardcore scene because it's not "contemporary" or "mainstream" or "modern" enough unfortunately.
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*HIT THE SUB BUTTON - IT'S FREEEEEE!*
already done, my friend. ain’t no poser.
been done yo
Dude this guy is horrible, fantano don't know nothing!!!
Wtf, I just recieved a $1.99 fee. You lied to me
I ALREADY HAVE - AGES AGOOOOOO!
Fantano was extremely brave dropping the Imagine Dragons bomb in front of a bunch of rabid ST fans
The imagine dragons vibes are definitely there, people just won't admit it because they automatically associate that with being bad. It's not a bad thing tho
@@Harper_Sloane the problem with the comparison is that he ABSOLUTELY used it in the negative context.
Not really, metalcore fans think their community is bigger than it actually is. The amount of Rap fans Fantano has pissed off is enough to make up Sleep Tokens entire fanbase.
@@Harper_Sloane Don't get me wrong, parts of Eden are definitely where they have sounded more like Imagine Dragons than ever, I just think it's funny that he actually went and namedropped them when it's basically a meme at this point
Braver man than I 😂
“If I don’t like a song, I don’t want it to be 8 minutes.”
-Fantano
Nor 1 minute. Such a pointless statement.
I guess that guy doesn't know about prog
@@TimmyK916I feel like it’s a fair argument. If it’s trash and 2 minutes aight… 8 minutes nah get it together
I feel like he meant that to be 8 minutes long and enjoyable, a song has to bring things to the table that a 2 minute song doesn‘t, it‘s like some movies that are good in 80-90 minute form, but would be absolutely unbearable as a 3h movie, whereas other movies will leave you wanting more at longer times
Also the beginning - i think it can work just right now, their music.
I'm gonna call Sleep Token "experimental imaginecore" from now on.
Imaginary dragoncore
@@sanield2782 Im dead now... LOL
Based
that doesnt like a bad genre name though since baddie-core imo is kinda gross
Fluidcore
If I heard Fantano's description of The Summoning before hearing the actual song, I'd imagine a song that sounds completely different to the actual Summoning song.
You know what, Ive never heard the Summoning. Im gonna listen to it after I finish the video and see how the experiment goes
While it wouldn't be MY criticism, I can see what he means by it. It doesn't sound gutteral, and you have an expectation that it should at some point. It does feel a bit two-dimensional.
I like how nik can include his perspective and opinions so well without actually dissing fantano. He can take what fantano says and break it up into what he agrees with and wants to question but it’s respectable
Logic should take notes!
It’s almost like people criticizing a band should be taken as a personal insult.
@Josh Zickus it's not about his criticism. It's about the absolute c*nt little b*tch way he delivers said criticism.
Whereas it's very difficult for me to watch anything from Fantano. I must remember that it's his views on things, though.
If you love Sleep Token and the Take Me Back to Eden album please go give it a great comment and high review on Rateyourmusic because Fantano's goons are giving the album half stars and 1 stars constantly now since his video trying to destroy the legacy of this modern Metal masterpiece. His name is mentioned in the comments on that page many times. They dropped the high rating (at time of release) from 3.48 to currently a 2.75 and tons of hate comments.
the moral of the story: music will always be subjective
Yeah lol people can get really mad at opinions but it’s just a meaningless opinion we all have
@@eclipses3131 some people are so sensitive that a benign disagreement in opinion now feels like a direct attack on their character. Fantano's opinion shouldn't be a deterrent for liking Sleep Token. And if you think it is, that's not Fantano's fault
@@occams_chainsaw totally agree. Each individual should reach their own conclusions. We should also remember that just because we don’t have the same opinions doesn’t mean that we can’t get along.
True. I haven't actually watched Fantano for a while now. No particular reason for that and he's pointed me towards some good music in the past. I remember disagreeing with some of his opinions about the music he was reviewing but meh! Didn't get butt hurt about it. 2/10 is pretty shocking though. I quite like Sleep Token but have sometimes wondered if they live up to the hype which surrounds them. Not hating on them or anything I just mean that I'm no die hard fan. 2/10? Wow! Doesn't really bother me although I'm sure it will bother some people a lot. You know it's just his opinion right?
Except Sleep Token is objectively terrible.
The obvious reason which he held onto almost the very end is that he isn't into the vocals. If you don't like them, then you won't probably like any of their records since it's the main driving force
but to then spend 8 minutes making things up to hide your singular reasoning is pretty cringe.
@@bigrob966 Gotta get that ad revenue. Making a short saying:"yeah, dont like it" isnt really driving people to the channel
It’s why these youtuber critics mean nothing to me and people gotta stop listening to their opinions like it’s gospel. If you’re gonna be a critic, but not look at it objectively then you might as well just be an average consumer as well since you are looking for something that falls into your specific taste profile
@@EthanRom Music is inherently subjective. No music critic is ever looking at music completely "objectively" and there's nothing wrong with that. If you don't care about their opinions that's totally fine too, but acting like fantano shouldn't do a review on a band just because he doesn't like their vocals is pretty ridiculous.
But this album and sleep token is so overhyped. They are very boring, and their last album sounds like average pop-rock album. Yes it is very like Imagine Dragons but a little more heavy
Ima-djent Dragons
LMAOO
That's why I love Nik. Very adequate comments, he is both subjective and objective and honest
I'm not an 'orthodox metalhead', but I really can't see how Sleep Token is considered a metal band. For me it's more like a group that can make metal and has a couple metal songs, almost like Poppy? Does that even make sense? lol
Because metal from the jump is unorthodox. Metal shouldn't have a set structure... If it was for set structures then we wouldn't have metal ... I mean think about korn how much hip hoppy jazzy funk is in ALMOST EVERY SINGLE SONG
Maybe the mistake is reducing Sleep Token to "a metal band". They fuse a lot of stuff, and metal guitars and verses are just one part of it. I enjoy metal, I like Sleep Token, but I wouldn't consider them a metal band
The disrespect to Poppy comparing her to sleep token 😩😂
Nothing metal about them except some edgy little riffs
I'd probably call it melodic metal if anything.
It leans heavy on the synthesized pop vocals whilst having occaisional chugs and riffs, break downs all that good stuff.
It's closer to a very processed Evanescence if I'm being entirely honest. I like Sleep token, but if you look at it objectively it's just clean pop vocals over metal guitars and drums.
I think the reason that it sounds so fresh is that it uses actual drums instead of samples which most music has come to do as of late and combine that with a weird and honestly jarring first time listening experience with different genres interjected at opportune times it feels like something new. Even though in reality it's just surface level iterations on multiple genres added to a single song.
The good thing about ST is that the music is experimental with the meshing of genres will certainly be a great gateway band to many people who have never heard metal before.
But at the same time, because it's surface level stuff you wont find a satisfying payoff as you might with Slaughter to Prevail or Lorna shore on the breakdowns.
Just listen to Will Ramos' cover of Choke hold. The aggression in the break down adds so much more to the emotion of the song making it feel more complete.
Watching this stream live on Twitch, while you were commenting & trying to hold it together, was hilarious. We were going off in the comments. You probably had to make sure some didn't appear in your video. 😂 Always keeping it real, Nik. You're a gem in the world of metal.
Metal heads are definitely the most butthurt set of music fans. Cry about everything
Been thinking of this review, and what I honestly need the most is a band combining Faith No More, Prince, and Meshugga.
Twelve foot ninja is sort of a blend between faith no more and meshuggah from what I remember lol, tossing Prince in there would definitely be insane too
@@kidtrinity2157twelve foot ninja is fucking hype
That's Mr Bungle, pretty much.
You can't even _spell_ Meshuggah.
Considering the music that Fantano usually rates highly, He's one of the last people I'd trust when it comes to metal reviews
He generally gives high scores to the most abrasive noisy heavy stuff tho
I just looked at all the albums he gave a 10/10 to and he definitely has a bias towards certain eras and genres. So i’m not sure why him or his fans bother with things along these lines
@@zachdukes8128 He bothers with metal because he likes metal
He‘s got some great metal reviews tho…
He got a looooot metal albuns he rated highly. I think he just not into modern metal
1:59 Surprisingly, he actually loves BMTH's newer stuff. He's had high praises for both Amo, and Post Human.
No respect for anyone who trashes so much on modern metal and thinks Amo is somehow a good album.
Didn't he give Sempiternal a 4 or smth lol
@@dahliasmiles7122 he actually gave it a 3/10.......
@@dahliasmiles7122 He also HATED That's The Spirit
@@the_furry_inside_your_walls639 I mean, Amo is actually a great album for what it is trying to be. Evaluating it based on something it isn't is quite dumb.
Yep. Fantano is definitely a guy with opinions. Yessiree, he sure does think some things about music
@@jeffemery7821 biased*
I... agree.
Yeah his opinions are pretty bad
@@craftgarrett1 bad take
@@craftgarrett1 his opinions are only bad in your opinion ;)
I too hear Imagine Dragons specifically on Chokehold (and I do not like ID) but then I hear Tool in the beginning vocal section of The Summoning, then later in the album I hear Evernescencsece and even Sevendust on Apparition… and Vore is basically a love song to Deftones in almost every way. They are very much an amalgamation, and they do it very well and with their own twist - But it’s a great album (not without its dips) and it shows growth. I’m a fan.
I hear A Perfect Circle but I do agree, I thought I was the only one who heard that lol
"and Vore is basically a love song to Deftones in almost every way", probably why it was my instant favorite. lmao
Every one of those bands make me want to vomit. Except deftones.
@@TSBFORGE "Gods" is like that as well. Like you cant tell me that song was not inspired by the post White Pony albums from Deftones.
Comparing TOOL to this piss is almost offensive
The thing with Fantano is he likes his metal as abrassive and raw as there is. I respect his tastes, but a proghead will never see eye to eye with a black metal fan. I like my music calculated and lifeless.
That’s fine, but as a reviewer he should be objective. The fact that he has a preference against cleanly recorded work means he is automatically listening to the work with a bias. Like you said as a prog head, musicians work hard to get good takes and perfect their craft, it’s sad that such effort is only to be labelled “lifeless”
It only bugged me when even every single TH-cam artist started sounding like bands that went into the studio. As if every artist, amateur or professional, is now using the same axe-fx and same drum samples. But i still love the sounds of calculated and lifeless haha
"Lifeless" meaning it doesn't sound like it was recorded in a garage in the fucking 1990s
@@EthanRom that's not really true - as a music critic he has a right to be subjective about his takes, and at the end of the day it's just his opinion, as he states in every video.
@@EthanRom no review is ever objective lmao his job is to give his opinion. You cannot have an objective opinion, especially not about art. That's the beauty of it
This should be entertaining. As a metal head who just got pulled in on this album, this is hilarious. All the things Fantano dislikes are the things I love about this album. Just goes to show how different people enjoy different things. I love the THALL wha, wha, wha, wha, in the chokehold riff. That's what hooked me on the singles. Vore's blackgaze sound takes me back to finding The Atlas Moth. Im a huge fan of prog, BTBAM are one of my favorite bands of all time. To each his own.
Btbam superfan here and I sure do understand fantanos review, Sleep Token sounds like everything on alternative pop rock radio to me. Pure schlock
@@sunnohh you havent heard enough then
If you love Sleep Token and the Take Me Back to Eden album please go give it a great comment and high review on Rateyourmusic because Fantano's goons are giving the album half stars and 1 stars constantly now since his video trying to destroy the legacy of this modern Metal masterpiece. His name is mentioned in the comments on that page many times. They dropped the high rating from 3.48 (at time of release) to currently a 2.75 and tons of hate comments.
@@sunnohh You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. This sounds nothing like what you hear on there lmao. Get your ears checked
Someone in his comments said it best. “When he brings out the red flannel for a metal album I know it’s gonna be a banger”
I can now not unthink that Sleep Token is actually the Imagine Dragons of metal.... Dammit
It's a shit take
I was more or less thinking the weekend of metal lol. Yes I got that vibe but ST is really good tho
Funny, I didn't need anyone to point it out to me, I heard it in the first 30 seconds and turned it off
Nah, only when one song is played in every store like 5 times a day will it become the imagine dragons of metal. It's like the missing key component.
they are tho
My fav is Aqua Regia. I also understand that the style blend, especially in this track isn't for everyone and that's fine.
But for me it's *the* hidden gem I didn't know I needed.
Yessss. I personally find ST overhyped, however, that song is fantastic.
It's super jazzy. Not my favorite on the album but definitely fun!
Also my fav as well. Places me in a healthy headspace.
Totally agree. Aqua Regia is a 🔥 track
I think a lot of people here don't fully get why people critique art. Everyone has likes and dislikes, and none of them are objective. We can argue for our cases by using metrics of what we value in art, but in the end, it's all just our subjective human experience. When people like Fantano (or just anyone who enjoys media criticism) talk about music, it's not to make other people hate an artist, or make anyone feel bad, but to have a conversation about what makes art compelling to them personally. These takes are never anything more than personal opinion. If you don't find those kinds of conversations fun, that's fine, but there are plenty people who enjoy talking about what art they like and dislike and develop an understanding of why we connect with some works of art and not with others. Everyone is fine with people critiquing movies or video games because it's easy to point at something and say "That plot makes no sense" or "This gameplay is jank", but since music as an artform is a lot more nebulous, people find it a lot harder to properly pinpoint why they like or dislike something. That is all that people who enjoy critiquing art are doing in the end.
That's not to say Fantano is beyond criticism either, you can just as well critique him for not properly reasoning his opinions. And I would sometimes agree with you. There are many points Fantano makes that I think are nonsense. And this, again, is all part of the conversation around art. But don't just say he's a hater or a contrarian. Anyone who has watched his stuff for a while knows what he tends to like and this was a very predictable review. There are PLENTY of acclaimed records that he also loves, but this particular brand of modern, cleanly-produced rock and metal is just not his taste. There are many rock and metal albums he loves, but those tend to be very stylistically and aesthetically different from ST.
@@PookySeinAccount fantano just has bad criticisms of rock music in general so it's hard not to say he is biased. His criticism of emo,post rock, math rock are terrible and often when he has the same criticism towards genres such as pop and hip hop it doesn't affect the score as much. They get such a bigger pass for things such as being "polished,refined, catering to mainstream trends of the genre" etc. I imagine he is doing the same for metalcore.
@@GoodByeSkyHarborLive Yeah, for sure. But that's basically my point. He's biased towards what he likes. He doesn't like clean rock/metal, but has no issue with clean pop. That part's fair enough, but I do agree he doesn't always properly communicate that in his reviews.
It's also important to remember we judge/rate music based on what we already know or have heard. Clearly, Fantano has listened to more music than most people and has a more broad sense as well as knowledge when it comes to a lot of genres. His ratings are a result of all the music he's listened to which mean if he finds sleep token bad, they're bad because he knows the music in that genre can be much better. He doesn't hate rock even though you think he does. He just has higher expectations 🤷♀
See, I disagree to an extent. Absolutely, a persons subjective taste will influence their outlook, but a good critic knows how to push that aside and look at art objectively. If a critic can't find anything good to say about an objectively good piece of art solely based on their subjective bias, that critic shouldn't be listened to.
Basically, my main point is that this viewpoint that all art is purely subjective isn't a good one, and it's commonly used as a cop-out to avoid personal criticism.
Sleep Token is the Imagine Dragons of metal tho. He’s not wrong.
The best 2/10 record I’ve ever had the pleasure of listening to.
I wouldn't say 2/10, maybe a 5 or a 6, its passable and not bad but nothing really interesting
You're both deaf.... Or die hard metal fans who don't like experimentation
it made me sleep and skip it and never to be heard again by my choice.
@tigers in your lungs I listened to it on a bus, I feel asleep like halfway which is impressive because 1. I can almost never fall asleep in a sitting position, 2. I cant fall asleep with headphones listening to music.
So I guess Sleep Token is an appropriate name lol
@@tigersinyourlungs go listen to MGK then
Totally agree with Nik’s opinion. I’ve been listening to ST since 2018 and their sound and ways of mixing different genres together is expanding so much with time. Thankfully that’s not hurting them at all. On the opposite, they got so big with the last release.
I watched maybe 10 of Anthony's videos like 10 years ago and that was all I needed to realize I would never agree with him. Glad to see that trend is still going
I actually enjoy watching him because he challenges me to question the very thing I’m listening too. Sometimes I hear a record and I think it’s a 8 or 9 out of 10 or I think it’s a 2 out of 10 and Fantano comes thru and delivers a 6. It makes me go back and at least question some of the things I thought were amazing or bad about records. Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I don’t, and sometimes he helps me to enjoy things I might hate. I don’t think it’s a good idea to watch fantano with the intent of agreeing with a score. I think it’s better to do what Nik is doing here and just listen to his statements, see where he’s coming from, then form your own opinion.
@@collinqs2541 I get what you mean. But I prefer coming to my own conclusions without anyone else's input, I guess. I haven't watched or read a review (barring this Sleep Token review) in a long time
Funny how we all enjoy different things. Like you said, I can understand what he means by some of the comments, but all the things he hated are things I absolutely love about this album. I'm obsessed with this album, easily a 10/10 for me. It has been a long time since I was this excited about a band. Let's all remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.
finally a reasonable comment, you said its a 10/10 FOR YOU. whereas most of these mouth breathing hipsters are saying that this album is the best thing (insert any metal band that has survived the past 2-3 decades) and while the album is okay, its still extremely divisive. those who seem to like it are WAY over praising it and those who dont like it simply are saying "its okay, not bad but not nearly as amazing as these people are making it out to be" ...the cool thing right now is to worship sleep token, if you arent saying they are the best band in the modern era then you are behind the times and uncultured, thats how these people are acting
@@muzien87 Those who don't like it are not simply saying that lmao. It's extreme on both ends
@@muzien87 It's a 10/10 for YOU. But YOU have bad taste 🎉
@@mattcubed9658 I think people are just extremely feed up with seeing their name everywhere and the rabid fanbase that built around them. I don't really hate them, i find that album really boring and meh but not ofensively bad by any means, but at that point i just can't stand hearing about them and especially comparisons to some absolute god tier records/bads.
@@bartoszbartosiewicz1123 They literally only got big from this album cycle. You literally only heard about them cause they got famous a few months ago. Your "tired of seeing them everywhere" take is unjustified, especially your weird "better bands" remark like that says anything.
It is wild to me that this band has garnered so much weird controversy and discussion just now. Sleep Token has sounded like this since their first album, each one has been consistently great and stuck with a very fine tuned unique sound.
I wouldn't call 90% indistinguishable from Post Malone unique in any way shape or form.
@@joeylummox7330 Bro what???? Post and ST have almost nothing in common whatsoever. Not sonically, not lyrically, not vocally, not instrumentally. Like they objectively do not sound the same AT all. Are you secretly Fantano?
Facts. Whether you’re with their sound or it doesn’t do it for you, they haven’t swerved an inch.
i wouldnt say they went quite as experimental in sundowning. One and Two are much more nu metal, sorta shoe-gazey.
band is only good to pseudo intellectuals who know little to nothing about music. putting pop music into metal, doesnt make you good.. it makes you an asshole.
"Y'all know this is just my opinion, right?" Is the most important part of theneedledrop that many people tend to forget. It sits there in the description of every review for a reason.
Core fans don’t know that.
so this makes him more just Ilikeit/Idislikeit guy then a reviewer:) but this is just my opinion:))
When you say something objectively incorrect though, then it isn't just an opinion anymore. Like it is my opinion that the grass is red and the sky is green.
Yeah you can't hide behind the "that's just my opinion" for everything.
@@KyleMcMullan_Musicianyou know, I have to agree with you especially when it comes from that guy. That same dude rated 3 incredibly mediocre - shitty albums above one of the all time great rock opera albums (American Idiot). Dudes opinion on that is objectively wrong.
As someone who can't understand the hype, fantano really described what doesn't work about them for me
Its refreshing to see critics as well as other people finally say something about this specific direction of "metal" that this band is trying to push on. There really isn't anything to this music, it's just a money grab project that does what sells and nothing else. It consists mostly of really sub par pop music with occasional cheesy modern metal cliches sprinkled in. Not to even mention the unlistenable vocals.
Exactly what I hate about modern metal, overproduced and way too popp-y. Not that pop is always bad but it doesn't work in this case. Someone who can actually blend pop and metal is Poppy
@@lewisbirkett4428 more like Poopy.
same
@@rinnimalfy3453none of what you said describes Sleep token and embarrassing yourself to be edgy is hilarious
I love Sleep Token and this album, but I also understand every point he makes.
same.
Same
same
Same
Okay..I'm not gonna lie. I get exactly what he's saying with the Imagine Dragons reference. I also agree with what he says about them definitely sounding like they're from today.
They definitely go for the 'big' sound like Devin Townsend for example but it feels like more forced emotions to me. I just recently listened to them for the very first time and I could tell pretty quickly it wasn't really my style but I also wasn't surprised that I keep hearing about them all the time now based off of how they sound. Not for me but good for them for their success!
This is exactly how I feel. I’m happy for them, but it’s just not for me.
Also, Fantano absolutely does not fuck with Devy. He can't stand his production or vocals.
« Forced » absolutely. This band sounds so fake and shallow
I mean I will say to one of the later comments, Fantano was a big alternative kid growing up, it's something he's brought up on occasion. He even played bass for some small band that he was a part of back then. So I'd say he has pretty decent alternative credentials actually, at least as much as most fans and even players when it comes to the scene as a whole.
I just think whenever he's had more critical perspectives like this with an act coming off more processed or contemporary, I just feel it's him showing that he doesn't really care for the usual, yk? Like he can appreciate contemporary music as a whole, he's given good scores and general reviews to more pop-centric/more mainstream appeal albums. It just feels like he usually doesn't care much for genre mashing unless they're an artist is really trying to be sort of super adventurous with it. Which mind you, can still fall flat for him ofc, but at least that's more where his tastes lie from whenever I see takes like this from him, whether I've enjoyed the project much more than him or not.
(Also side note, he actually sort of messes with BMTH actually, though more pick and choose for him, but he really enjoyed that 2020 record Post Human: Survival Horror just to give you a small metric.)
Even then he gives kudos and respects the attempt made to try something outside of the ordinary. (happened with A7X's latest album which he put as the worst album of 2023 but commended the band for trying)
Takes me back to his 1/10 review of DGD’s Instant Gratification. The lower Fantano scores an album, the more likely I am to own a physical copy
Oh my god - Yeah, that's probably his worst review ever for sure..😅 I like Jonny era DGD mostly, but IG is nowhere near a 1.
This! All of this!
No way he gave that album a 1/10! That's one of my top 3 DGD albums! Guess his tastes don't line up with mine at all lol
Oh that's why I stopped taking Fantano seriously thanks for reminding me lol
...does that mean you have physical copies of Nav's entire discography at home? :^)
It's like Bogdan said in his reaction to the new I See Stars singles. People are spoiled nowadays. Everyone expects every new thing that gets put out nowadays to be some 11/10 genre defining/innovating masterpiece but it doesn't need to be, it can just be something that sounds good and that's it
I feel like that's what Sleep Token are going for though, to define a or the genre! Sometimes, when you shoot for the stars you end up face planting, and that's ok, some people are into that
Definitely with you on how the song Are You Really Okay is in terms of sound and it was my least favourite of the album- I did love the lyrics. Vore is a big favourite of mine along with Chokehold. And big fan of the wah wah sounds, it's very pleasing to my brain lmao.
He literally complained about how it's super calculated, then proceeds to say it's too chaotic.
yeah, like if you're gonna diss a band at least be consistent with what you're saying
plus he complained about mixing metal, rap and pop elements and that it sounds boring or generic ,but then he also loves bmth's new stuff like??? on paper theyre doing the same thing his reasoning dont make sense
that's what im saying like ??? at least keep it consistent
@@_lin_al3177bmth does it well tho
I mean if you listen to what he said at the beginning by calculated he was referring to the amount of production/processing, something can be very sonically chaotic and all the layers be "calculated" in that sense
Anthony is a caffeine addict, he hates sleeping
Awake Token
I can absolutely understand WHY people don't like ST and their new record. But god damn I have had that bitch on repeat since it came out. I agree with Nik where a lot of Fantano's criticisms just don't feel like criticism. I've been a fan of heavy music for almost 20 years now, and one of the things that I love about ST is that they just sound like a project. EVERY band that has ever done an interview has said at some point "we dont go into the studio with a blueprint, we wrote what felt natural" I feel like ST actually does that. It sounds like they make the songs they want to make. and a lot of their tunes have a lot of that "what if we try this?" in it and its so fucking refreshing to hear that. They aren't the first to do it, obviously bands like FNM, Mr. Bungle, Dog Fashion Disco, etc all excel at this and have been around far longer, but ST is such a treat and have a very different sound than the others listed.
Also one other thing I love is that when you get past the surface of the band and look into all the nods and easter eggs in their songs that reference their other music, it is a really fun experience. I've never really felt a band give me that feeling before.
Very well said. I’m also a fan of very heavy music. I often get bored of it tho cuz after a while a lot it is just more of the same. This album has blown me away tho. I’ve listened to the entire album at least once a day since it came out. It’s refreshing and when I’m listening to it it gives me a transcending feeling like as if I’m being raptured. Lol
@@joshuabalsavage4695that’s how I feel too. Like I’m being transported, somewhere in space/another dimension. I don’t need them to be perfect, there are some stylistic choices that aren’t my favourites..in fact Im glad there’s room for growth and improvement. But overall I feel like they create this atmosphere I lose myself in. Older AFI, Opeth and a few other bands have this effect on me.
It's especially weird because he doesn't have consistent takes when it comes to Pop music. He doesn't think the Weeknds last album was "overly processed". Yet it undeniably is.
yeah, this is the most frustrating part of the review or his reviews in general. similarly with his DGD reviews, he calls them super processed... but the pop music gets a total pass if theyre very processed or too "tight" lol
I think it has to do with the genre. He likes a bunch of pop/rap stuff, but when it comes to metal, he seems to gravitate towards the more “abrasive”/“raw sounding metal. And I think it makes sense, as a genre partially defined by being loud, distorted, and screamed/yelled, you can see how that would lend itself more to more uncontrolled displays of emotion rather than “prettily produced” stuff. Of course, that doesn’t mean that the only correct way to do metal is that uncontrolled display of emotion, but I definitely wouldn’t see thinking these elements don’t fit metal as a “contradictory” or “hipocritical” take to have when you like these elements elsewhere.
It's because Fantano only likes the raw side of metal, and he is not bothered bysomething having heavier production when it ocmes to pop. His job is not to be objective, objective critics are boring af to watch, his job is to be true to HIS taste, because the people that follow him supposedly have similar taste. That's the whole point of following a critic, to see what someone with YOUR taste thinks about this or that, but for some reason people that disagree with his views watch him regularly.
Exactly my thoughts . Aside from metal he always hates any other music type that isn’t processed and polished but since this is considered metal he hates all of it I guess.
It’s a genre thing I think, he holds metal and pop records to completely different standards, it’s like how a ‘raw’ sounding pop record is just not gonna sound like a pop record, but metal that is produced like a pop record is not good at being a metal record to him
They were the very first band i ever saw in concert in Detroit, Sep 2023, and it was absolutely amazing. I loved it
Fantano giving it a 2 is better than him giving it a 5. If he really dislikes it, it atleast was impactful enough to leave a (negative) impact. That's better than a bland 5. Now he admits it's unique, but not his jam, rather than nothing special.
I also agree with most of his takes, even compared them to Imagine Dragons to my friends well before his review. But just like Nik says, I don't see how it's a bad thing.
Solid album, 8 to 9 outta 10, Apparition is a banger.
right.. i think maybe if he went into it without knowing their gimmick and presence in the metal scene, he might have enjoyed it more
“Sleep token sounds like imagine dragons” is certainly one of the takes of all time
Alot of truth to it
I just got into the genre recently and for me they do sound a lot like imagine dragon.. I don’t even say this negatively
@@shl6367 Nah what the fuck, imagine dragons is garbage.
didn't even say that..and i'm saying this as someone that doesn't even watch the guy and that generally disagrees with almost every take he has about metal
@@jotunn30 "what they're doing isn't that much different than imagine dragons" that's essentially saying they sound like them doofus.
I guess having the big nerd of all on the internet music wise is truly a compliment for a band like them... I don't even watch Fantano regularly unless I'm truly bored or just found something I wanted to see.
Fantasamo is entirely correct in his review. I say that liking some parts of the record, but the combination of genres is really horrible and they just don't go well with one another.
Not because you don't like it that it doesn't go together. I understand you don't like it but yes, it does go well together. It's just like the last a7x album, for example we love you, which goes from one point to another. Or even a system of a down, that is super weird. Well it's the same thing here but a bit more complex and kind of ''intellectual'', like prog/alt and it does go well together. I'd say it's a pretty good band too when you want to start metal, you're not being directly into a hard thrash heavy core thing metal you know, it's kind of chill at moments and you still got really heavy, chunky and powered riffs that are absolutely tasteful.
Let's remember that EVERYTHING IS SUBJECTIVE IN MUSIC. if he doesn't like it, don't hate him. Same thing with us, if we don't like something he likes, don't attack him. We have different tastes and that is all
Wish everyone had this opinion honestly, couldn’t agree more
Fully agree. It's always super helpful when Fantano reviews a core album cos I know if it gets more than a 1 it's gonna be BANGING.
tell that to r/metalcore.
It depends how you express those opinions. If you're an obnoxious a-hole about it then that certainly does reflect back on you (or "oneself"). And I have seen livestream clips where Fantano fits that description so I'm not a big fan.
Fanatno presents his opinion on a pedestal. He frequently shits on bands and criticises stuff that’s newly released from smaller artists (aka not Taylor Swift) which can really hurt them. I don’t know why you’re riding for him so hard, people can criticise him and his opinion and they can be harsh about it just like he often is. You really don’t need to state the obvious “MUSIC IS SUBJECTIVE” as if critics, him included, haven’t called a whole bunch of music objectively awful.
Everything he said was a negative I thought was a positive. I love a big sounding mix. The vocal is thick and hits strong.
You don't need to be experimental to make a good song. The fact that they didn't break ground in any of the genres they borrowed is neither a positive or negative.
Honestly, the fact that this got a 2 when he gave Metallica a 5 (when they just shit out identical sounds as they have for a decade almost) is embarrassing IMO
I don't mind the mix as much, altough I prefer a rather raw sound, probably why Black Metal and Screamo are my favorite genres. I could see myself listening to Sleep Token though if not for the vocals. The vocals are what's absolutely killing it for me, just can't stomach them for some reason.
@@ThundraBoy666
I think that's fair. I also like that sometimes, my taste profile is fairly wide.
What really rubs me the wrong way with Fantano is that he is very inconsistent at times. If anyone but Metallica (or another big act that he happens to like) shit out identical albums, he would weight that heavily and rate them low.
how can he look at the camera dead ass and say that vessel's vocals aren't good like???? be serious man , vessel sounds angelic
Dude's a certified boomer
@@_lin_al3177Angelic? He sings like it’s still late 2010s and Falling in Reverse became bigger than Beyonce lmao
Bro. My first reaction to Sleeping Tolkien was, “this sounds like imagine dragons” I agree with fantano 💯
I mean the RNB part of The Summoning is indeed the best part it fits so well it's a very sensual and sexy song then turned to 11 when he hits the RNB style vocals. It doesn't feel forced and it feels very natural. Not my style of metal but I think Take Me Back To Eden is a great album anyway.
I feel the same way as him, but I am glad the band is doing well, to get a metal-ish band in the mainstream is cool
Same
saaaaame.
How mainstream are they?
@@JoinMeInDeathBaby 90% more mainstream than any other modern "metal" act. 5% as mainstream as ed sheeran. ;)
@@insome776 i mean, if we judge by youtube views, stuff like Sabaton is way more mainstream. You know, continental European heavy metal, not metalcore
I respect pretty much any musician of almost any genre and acknowledge their creativity and talent even if their music is not exactly what I enjoy listening. That being said I genuinely came up with Image Dragons comparison myself :D
Fantano actually really likes BMTH. He gave their last album an 8/10 and liked their new song AMeN!
kinda hypocritical because their latest stuff have a lot of his negative points about sleep token in it. like the mixing of a lot of genres and what he called generic sterile pop rock. i love bmth and st ,just kinda think his reasoning is hypocritical lol
Honestly I’d want to see what he thinks if you swap the voices of BMTH and Sleep Token, since they’re so similar aside from the mix/master.
@@_lin_al3177 Sleep token takes a more polished approach to songs that should sound more raw. BMTH experiments, but always sounds raw and strong.
@@_lin_al3177they’re not mixing genres, they just make nu-metal.
0:24 “and maybe the most complementary thing I can say about sleep token is that they are certainly a band”
I swear if they would have just recorded it on a walkie talkie Fantano would have said it’s one the most innovative and best metal albums of the last decade
Fantano has some weird takes when it comes to metal and rap sometimes. He’s a huge Death Grips fan (who I find to be unlistenable), so it kinda says a lot about his opinion. But he just seems like a cringe black metal elitest. His metal takes are usually off
@@eanhutchins1603 especially his I let It In and It Took Everything review he did a couple years back. That blew me away.
@@1998flint yeah his views on newer metal don’t make sense lol.
yea he likes his music to sound like nails on chalk board
@@cinnamonfrenchghost yeah or someone having a seizure on a keyboard
I think the best part for me is how serious everyone is about their opinion about Sleep Token lately 😂
Like every second dude that I've talked to or seen online has this huge mega incredibly important passionate opinion about why they like or dislike the band. Like my man, calm down, like it or leave it and move on. Nobody really cares about your opinion. I like their sound, so I'm into it, end of 🤷🏼♂️😂
Fantano's metal tastes tend to skew to the raw, dirty, off kilter and progressive styles so totally get his lukewarm response to Sleep Token
As someone who kinda just started listening to sleep token coming from slipknot i didn't seem attracted to listen to them until i did and now i cant stop they are catchy and pleasing to hear i don't even care what genre they are because i like most of their songs old and new i love the vocals and the build up to the more aggressive parts but i have never listened to a band that sounds more unique than sleep token
Good take, because the issue with them being compared to Imagine Dragons is that we have never heard a band with LESS unique sounds. You can literally find all of Imagine Dragons sounds in the base version of Fruityloops.
@@youlikefeetbruh that’s exactly WHY they sound like imagine dragons lol every element they take is like the most generic and bland version of those sounds and the only thing “unique” is the way they combine and structure those sounds. Stacking a bunch of different slices of white bread on top of each other doesn’t give it more flavor. Imagine Dragons is soulless processed epic emotionally baiting pop “”rock”” and that’s exactly what sleep token is they just added random modern metal sounds and threw it all in a progressive song structure.
Damn dawg thats a tough opinion. I’ve been so into this album and replayed it like 10 times already. We all have our right to our opinion though. Still a light 2?! Gah damn.
I don’t even know why anyone listens to fantano I mean what are his credentials again🤔 why should we care about his opinion🤷♂️
Ep called Two may be too bland for some and gets a 2 rating but THIS album!?
Gahdam
I donno NED i didnt realize you needed to have some kind of drgree to be able to listen to something and give an opinipn on it. Thr album isnt that great, im sorry if you don't feel that way but this album is not the second coming of christ pepple make itnout to be so when your average metal head / music lover listens to it after hearing nonstop about how itanthe best thing to be relased in thebpast decade, your average person who isnt can boying and shilling for it will listen to it and go " its alright , i dont see why pelple are hyping it up" this album and this band are so boring no wonder they call them sleep token, it sounds like music you would play to put a robot to sleep. To me it sounds like someone told AI to make hipster metal
what i appreciate Nik doing here, and it's something that people in the comments don't seem to ever understand, is that he knows that this is just Fantano's opinion and his tastes don't have to line up with yours. he doesn't like an album? well you should still listen to it see if you think differently. He's just a guy that listens to music and that's all he's ever potrayed himself as
i know its going to be a banger when he gives a bad review
Sleep Token doesn't make bangers.
They make music to coma to.
@@tiggetty sleep token because their newest album is a token for falling asleep
I agree with him tbh I don’t think sleep token is that good
@@nikoraasu6929 I love seeing all the people that come out to shit on ST, y’all give me a chuckle as I vibe to the album again
@@warclericwill4 Ok bro, not like anyone cares about my or your opinion. You liek the album, cool, I don't.
I can't believe I agree with Fantano about something, but here we are. The over-processed 'peanut butter stuck to the roof of your mouth' vocals are the nail in the coffin for me.
Bro 100%, im with you on this one. I am very surprised by the hype of this album, but hey, gotta let people enjoy what they enjoy. Fantanos comments resonated with me tho, i completely get his perspective.
'peanut-butter-stuck-to-the-roof-of-your-mouth' vocals may just be the result of having a UK accent in this genre 😂
@@krazedzombies it really doesnt have much to do with that at all. there are plenty uk singers in this genre that dont sound like this. its simply his stylistic choice.
@@gintuner4371 gotcha, sounds like I was just off base then. I definitely know what sound you're talking about. I just clocked it a few days ago, because I've spent so much time singing along to their music that it finally clicked.
Vessel holds his voice in the back of his throat, which produces a choked sound, it sort of amplifies the desperation of their lyrics, adding a sense of pain that reminds (me) of someone on the verge of crying
Edit: I misspelled off base and just noticed
@@krazedzombies yeah, that describes it pretty well, and you gotta be fair, im not saying its objectively bad, just that i dont like the sound of it
Music is art, art is beauty, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Can't wait to put that on a placard to be hung in my kitchen along with other retarded shit like "Live. Laugh. Love."
And "Eye of the Beholder" is track 3 off of Metallica's 1988 album, "...And Justice For All."
Then people like Fantano should recognize this and not say things that are objectively untrue. Stick in subjective territory and all is well or he just sounds stupid.
What I got from this video is he's saying he doesn't like it so it's bad
art is very often not beautiful
Fantano actually likes a lot of BMTH's new material, especially Post Human. Generally hes become more positive on them as their career has moved along. Not making a case for anything just a fun fact
My issue with them is they genuinely do blend a lot of different things… I just think if u isolate each thing they are doing they aren’t doing it very well
Same. I think they instrumentally present the genre mixture well (sometimes not), but I don’t think Vessel has the voice to truly pull off the RnB parts in a lot of their songs
That’s exactly Fantano’s point. It’s a bland, shallow mix of cool modern genres/sounds
EXACTLY THIS!
ST just does barebones blends of genres that are just lacking in everything that makes them shine.
Every song feels like listening to an identity crisis.
Exactly, a lot of different elements, but these elements are superficial
I just listened to Sleep Token for the first time; after two separate people mentioning them to me. For me, Sleep Token is like a metal version of Imagine Dragons
I think its a good point about it being each genres surface level stuff and that being enough as far as innovation goes. But its *the beginning*. And not just for ST, but for other bands and indivudual members who have those diverse backgrounds to feel secure in learning to combine the deeper parts of each genre and still finding an audience who is more than willing, starving even, to embrace it and stand by them as they experiment.
Its just like the 2010s with the abundance of ballerinas getting into poledance. Eventually people of other dance backgrounds got into aerial silks and lyra and pole, and combined the skills of all of them to make performances. Cirque du Soliel is also an example of this. When circus performance was starting to die, this weird little concept appealed to americans who didnt know the langauge, when they deigned to use it. It had mass appeal and instilled wonder. It used to only be on at 3 am on an odd channel in the 2000s. Dont underestimate the diversity and innovation that will bring in mass appeal.
Oh god, the sections that blend genres are taking the most generic, boiler plate, uninspired, easy-to-make sound from each of those genres, then doing nothing interesting with them, and then pretending that just having them on a metal album makes it interesting. It doesnt. At it's core it is generic, uninteresting songwriting. Also the lyrics are teeeeeerrible to me, don't understand how anyone could find then "deep" in any regard. The vocals are veeeerrrrry cringe.
ALTHOUGH I totally respect what you said about the world of pop and the world of metal opening themselves up to each other. Fully support that. You know what? Prehaps this album is the trojan horse to make that happen, BUT i pray to god that Sleep Token's album spawns some far more creative artists out of it's influence.
His critiques of the album are so bizarre that if he didn't have such a negative tone to his voice, 90% of what he says sounds like compliments and positive points to the album.
the other 10% are just really random personal sounding gripes like "I feel like I'm in a prison" ... why? It's music, why would you ever even approach it from any kind of angle where you would feel like you're put in a prison? I would have to go into any kind of music with a VERY specific headspace in order to feel that way.
If anything the album feels the toal opposite to prison-like. Its exploration of genre feels liberating and cathartic. It's so frustrating and tiring hearing people argue about genre, so for a band to just express themselves through so many different sounds is like one giant breath of fresh air.
yeah I felt that way too it's like he was saying it's too good or sth
Bc he does not know shite bout music theory and stuff lol, and even less bout sound engineering and production :p
This is just how his videos are lol
@@mkdzzxc me when I lie
I think he gave BMTH Post Human: Survival Horror an 8/10 - which I was shocked by
I was fully expecting fantano to dislike the album, I was just a bit frustrated because as with the Vore point it really seemed like he went into it not wanting to give it a chance
I mean fantano is right to a point. I didn't care for it but I was pretty surprised to see him give it such a low rating.
It's not a two, he just wanted to start a war for internet clout.
@@McKillaboy Nah he ain't about all that. He's pretty honest when it comes to his opinions and he hadn't cared for any of their stuff before this either so I saw this coming. I personally though do agree that it's not a 2, 5 though yes.
@@haydenkline7836 Oh don't get me wrong, his review was pretty good. But the 2? That's bait.
Just remember that this is the same guy that gave Lil Pumps album a 7...
Should've been a 10
I think this is a difference of musical tastes between people. Which means that the reason some people love the album is the same as the reason some hate it. It is just what it is. It is pointless to argue when that happens
I think if you personally don’t like an album to where you can’t review objectively and unbiased then don’t review it at all. You don’t have to like something, but making baseless comparison and outlandish complaints is just weird. Esp when he gives Death Grips a 10. Shit might be very unique but it’s very hard to listen to. I genuinely can’t listen to a single DG song cause it gives me a headache.
@@kevindellatore If someone doesn't like something, they don't like it. This whole "judge it objectively" argument doesn't make any sense just because you don't agree with the comparisons made of the album. Listening to the album myself, I honestly agree with most of what Fantano has to say and I don't think it is any form of bias to say he didn't like the music because he didn't like the music. And then you go after his Death Grips review like that doesn't just prove the point it is all opinions. Plenty of people love it and it isn't just some hipster ironic love. All reviews are opinions.
@@kevindellatore There is no such thing as no bias and there is also no such thing as an objective review. You're trying too hard to rationalize your own brought in delusions with stuff like "he likes dg which i dont like". You are being very biased and subjective yourself
He's got a few points I strongly agree with! Not everyone's cup of tea comes w sugar!
Sleep Token fans are starting to sound like Kpop stans the way they can't handle valid critiques. They're going to blow up and have already, no doubt about it, so good for them. They've seriously lost me though, the Imagine Dragons comparison was hilarious but extremely accurate. High Water's outro will always be a banger though, but this album just aint it. I don't even think it is fair to call this a metal album. If an album is majority rock/pop with a couple of breakdowns (not even a common attribute of metal, but hardcore) is it even fair to call this a metal album. I don't think so.
I haven't gotten into comments, in fact, I've never listened to Sleep Token. But the thing for me is exactly what Nik points in the video. Fantano's and similar people's fans get on "elements" of songs (like it being proccessed) and decide that because they don't like it, it fits into a narrative where it is bad music. And man they are so annoying in real life
I’m not gonna lie when I first heard the album, I really did think to myself that it had things that made me think of Imagine Dragons.
We all did. Well, you know, those of us who aren't brainwashed.
Whoever’s saying they don’t sound just like those guys simply doesn’t want to admit it
@@joeylummox7330 can you point me to whichever imagine dragons album or track that sounds like this?
@@markbyrd7710stop being such a simp my guy. There is nothing inherently bad about being compared to ID. They are a capable modern rock/pop bands that have made decent songs.
@@Direksone what is a simp? I asked a question. Is there an album or song specifically you know of that sounds like this?
I don't know why the Imagine Dragons comparison has anyone up in arms. I heard ST for the first time with this album, and literally my first thought was "This sounds like a heavy version of Imagine Dragons". It seems pretty obvious to me.
"Vore is a black gaze song without being recorded on a nokia" 😂
Please do more of these EFAP style breakdowns of music reviews. I think it's really interesting listening to people's arguments and figuring out whether they're valid or not.
So you listen to EFAP as well? I love me some Mauler.
@@AMikeStein Omg I cannot STAND mauLer or EFAP. It’s a breeding ground for conservatives and casual racism/ sexism. Just like critical drinker it’s a rabbit hole of bigotry.
I go to Luke Stephens or Joseph Anderson for game criticism and YMS or Sean Chandler for film criticism. Both are just as analytical without the absolutely twisted far right dogma. If a film critic is crying about something being “woke” you can immediately dismiss the criticism as bias towards disgusting far-right leaning ideals.
Sure, I’d love it without the casual racism, sexism, and transphobia crying about “wokeness” when it’s really just bigotry.
@@AMikeStein Mauler and the gang are great.
@@TheMetalOtaku They’re bigots and conservatards. I know Nik is a lefty so it would go great if he did it in that style and it wouldn’t be crying about “wokeness” at all.
After I first listened to Sleep Token when their first album dropped, my sentiments were the same as Fantanos. The music does have the vibe of an industry plant created for metal fanboys by a product marketing group.
I totally get the Imagine Dragons reference in terms of just kinda stealing all the surface elements from what’s laying around the genre.
Honestly, I just thought their music was boring.
Agreed about the industry plant concept. They are surprisingly polished after such a short spanning career so far. They clearly have a big budget for studio time and high production values.
They saw what Ghost did with the masked identity concept and took it a step further.
That secret identity thing is used as a tool to get fans to overlook how polished and soulless some of the deliveries come across.
@@taylorpilewski they’ve been going over five years, three albums and lots of touring. Plus vessel has been in a critically successful band before.. but yeah, industry plant with short career
How can you be an industry plant when your a metal band?
@@thomo2127 why can't they?
@@thomo2127how is that even a question? This genre of music obviously sells. Do you think a record label is above manufacturing an income stream just because of its genre?
I'm honestly with Anthony on this one. Sleep token's videos have millions upon millions of views, but only 411k subs on youtube and 668k followers on Spotify. Kinda goes to show the type of people that listen to this band as a whole, casual listeners. Now that's not irrelevant from Periphery and Tesseract both having less combined followers, about 220k a piece, but their views normally equate to mostly subbed views. Sleep Token's music is curated for a specific type of person, it's very trendy and well polished.
I DON'T THINK IT'S TRASH, but I definitely don't think they outclass TesseracT in terms of musicianship, or Periphery in terms of music production and behind the scenes work.
The vocal delivery on DYWTYLM I think is where I would agree with him, it leans towards Lewis Capaldi runs and timbre before leaning for a Caribou or I guess M83 (I’m drawing those comparisons because of the sequenced synth the vocals on the song)
But it is an example of a song with pretty good mixing as apposed to the washed out songs he keeps referring to when disliking the sound of the record
Can understand melon's take on the vocals. That shit sounds like it's AI generated.
Fantano isn’t wrong about the imagine dragons comparison tbh
I still have no idea what you or him mean by that. I've personally never heard a comparison so drastically different.
Like what specifically?
@@sendingit2601 Its overproduced to the extent of lacking emotion. Humans are imperfect, thats why people like Fantano or me, prefer songs that have edges and a certain roughness. But Imagine Dragons and these guys sandblast their songs, taking away any depth.
@@datmarsu7020Why is rawness the only form of depth? Pink Floyd processed the hell out of their vocals and instruments towards the end of the '70s but I never see their music called soulless. If the processing is there to help create the sound you want for the song or album, go for it. Sleep Token doesn't give me the impression they want to be a raw little indie band combining their favourite genres. They very clearly want to be a larger than life, somewhat over the top band. They're going for a certain affect and the processing serves that aim.
@datmarsu7020 look at Phil Collins with Coming in the Air Tonight. You could call that overproduced too, but it just works.
@@datmarsu7020 if this point had any amount of merit, Daft Punk wouldn't be the most famous music production duo in the history of Music. Their sound is very processed, and very polished. But you are not going to sit there and tell me Alive 2007, Human after all, Bring Life back to Music, that they have no depth. Thats ridiculous.
"You started a battle with the metal scene" Which metal scene? I'd think the majority of metalheads would agree?
I think Niks fan boy-ism won't let him process some of his opinions.
I totally agree that it’s more than enough to have fused genres in an innovative way. But also… when thinking about reinventing within the genre itself.. doesn’t that usually manifest itself as the drawing in of influences from elsewhere? So they seem like the same thing to me. Idk it genuinely feels like people are reaching for reasons to hate on ST.
Yeah generally reinventing genres kinda means properly fusing genres. I honestly dont know that you could entirely reinvent a genre without. He seems to almost expect ST to reinvent hip hop, metal and alternative individually, then fuse them together
also like, there's only so much people can do. how do you re-invent a whole genre REALLY? and if you did truly reinvent it, then would it not be a DIFFERENT genre? I feel like people take shit too seriously sometimes. Which is fine, if you wanna take your music that seriously cool. Me, i just listen to stuff i like. if it sounds good to me, cool. i like it. now maybe i'm not that bright or educated or sophisticated or whatever. but honestly, at the end of the day, i don't really care. i listen to what i like because it makes me happy, and that's enough for me
Once you listen to bands like Sigh, Blut aus Nord, and Maudlin of the Well, the way Sleep Token fuses genres becomes laughable. It is possible to blend metal and other genres, but Sleep Token completely misses.
He actually rates a lot of Bring Me lol. He loved Post Hunman and really dug Amen. Never know what you will get with Fantano. He triggers and challenges my own opinions at times but I am learning to embrace that this is part of enjoying the art of music and having unique tastes and different constitutions as humans. Great content Nik, I chuckled a few times ;) I also would be lying if I said Fantano doesn't sometimes infect me with his perspective on songs lol.
I remember he hated Sempiternal reviewing it with a Mumford and fucking Sons t shirt
Lots of respect for the opinion of Fantano but he shouldn't JUst criticize, he should also give us the parts that he Does like so we can see his taste and reasons behind his opinions more.
DID HE ALSO THROW EVANESCENCE UNDER THE BUS?!? Bro that album was my highschool life!
i was the same way with the sickness from disturbed. i remember how much i listened to that when i was in hs, but i listened through it again recently and it's not good lol
I love this album!! Probably going to buy the vinyl
My review: I love the album and will continue to listen to it.
nik likes everything and never critiques a band
After that, I'm driving to McDs to get a McRib menu and a double Cheeseburger.
Fantano's review doesn't phase me at all, life's great and so is Sleep Token's new album. Worship 😆
I'm about to go to In-N-Out and get a double cheeseburger animal style. I'll be blasting Sleep Token the whole way and have my windows down in the drive thru screaming Vore. 😂
Life cant be that great if youre eating a mcrib and a burger from mcdonalds 💀😭
Every "worship" I see is taking me back to girls worshipping One Direction
@@KatzPhantom 😋😋 I wish I had In n Out here in Bavaria
@@GodVessel hey, it's supposed to better than eating ass😆😆 besides, I'd have to drive more than 20 miles to the next Burger King🙈
The fact that certain people are genuinely upset at music reviews is perplexing.
People just want to feel validated and be told they are right for liking something
🎯 💯 🎯 💯
That’s what happens when people equate their music tastes with their entire personalities. They take it as a personal insult. It’s weird as hell
@@GREENWARRI0R I think it's more to the effect of people not liking being told that what they enjoy is dogshit. It's one thing to not agree with people but to present that in the most abrasive way you can is always going to make people who like that thing mad.
That's why whenever I wanted to be an asshole online the most reliable thing to piss people off was to find out what they liked and made fun of it.
@@phreeck988 you use the word 'dogshit' but the reviewer doing the reviewing never says it, says more about you than the reviewer.
I honestly agree with him on 90% of that. I was really intrigued by sleep token and even liked a few songs in their discography but this album fell flat for me i could not get into it. Vore was ok but the rest didnt do much for me.
People have to start appreciating mixing and mastering as part of the art. Much goes into getting that "sound".
True, but a lot of people just like a more natural sound. Like imo, Converge sounds more heavy than modern stuff even though Jane Doe came out 20 years ago because of the mixing
@@maddoxhallums4869 please advise what you mean by natural sound?
@@maddoxhallums4869natural? do you dislike his use of electronic production and instrumentation? or are you saying the body and structure of the song itself is unnatural? or vessel’s vocals?
@@pointblank4937 Yeah I think a lot of the instrumentation sounds kind of dull, guitars are way too down-tuned and over the top, vocals are inauthentic and over-processed. There are some highlights for me though, like most of the Summoning and the piano in Aqua Regia
Bland 2010s metalcore production
For myself, whenever i listen to Sleep Token i just want to turn it off and go back and listen to old school Type O Negative. I get the same "feel" from Sleep Token as Type O/Pete Steele (RIP). I also feel that it is very over-produced, but that does seem to be a trend (of all music genres) these days.
Aww. The reasonable comparison to Imagine Dragons made you big mad…grow up. There’s tons of that 2010s radio indie vibe in their music whether you like to admit it or not.
Gotta be honost, I agree with fantano. I think people are so anxious to jump on whatever to the newest craziest sounding thing in metal is and dub it "the future" of metal bc that's just how stale metal has been for a while but this band does not do any one thing very well and it just sounds tacky and gimmicky. And the vocals are cringey AF.
I agree about people eager to hop on trends, but for my ears and my money metal hasn't gotten stale. It absolutely continues to blow my mind. Others milage may vary of course.
@@joeylummox7330 I feel the hardcore scene in particular has had an explosion of new great bands. But I feel metal in general has gotten so processed and cookie cutter..literally every metalcore or deathcore band is a clone of itself. I think the last band that had a truly original sound was zeal and ardor...but even they kind of missed the mark..but the combination of metal and slave hymns had so much potential. I feel like they were the sleep token of 5 years ago haha. But right now if any band deserves attention it's bloodywood
@@kennethmartinez1167 here's still plenty of bands coming out making meat and potatoes metal and doing it well to varying levels of success, sure it's kind of niche but for my ears and my money I've never once in four decades been listening to metal and thought "boy this is getting kinda stale" others milage may vary.
@@kennethmartinez1167I really like 2010's 'underground' metal however it's really unlikely for that blow up like the hardcore scene because it's not "contemporary" or "mainstream" or "modern" enough unfortunately.