I found this after seeing Andreaa in another talk hearing her reference you. I am so happy to find strong women philosopher in this philosophy world. And now you too
What a lovely message-thank you for sharing that! I'm so glad to be part of this amazing community and to connect with others who share a passion for philosophy.
Excellent. Andrea, I'm sure it won't surprise you, but this might be my favorite discussion that you've had/shared up to date. Very good, and keep on "stalking the wild pendulum";)
I LOVE conversations like this! Thank you so much for making this 🙏 I dream of winning the lottery big time and have the time and resources to create and facilitate a filmed symposium over several days and invite people like Andrea, Alex, Ian McGilchrist, Bernardo Kastrup, Michael Levin etc. but also 'skeptics' from various areas of academia to discuss these topics here, so that can be shared with the world instead of "just" having these discussions in various silos on separate YT-channels. A world forum discussing these important things with open minded experts I think could be a great gift to humanity.
Edges is a great way of saying I have all this history and here is the summit of my thinking about these fields. The edge and all it's learning is where imagination should be taking the lead. Great conversation.
So happy to see Alex on here! He’s right about academia. I was a neuroscientists and was maybe even more cynical than he is in the end. I ended up leaving heartbroken. You go into something for the search for Truth and then you see the truth is that it’s a money machine like everything else. (I know that’s an over simplification.) But I’m still a scientist/academic at heart! It’s podcasts like these that nourish the part of me that was starving in academia. I wish I’d had Alex to commiserate with back in my lonely academic years!
With regard to Alex's dreams, I would suggest he read ( assuming he has not done so already) a good translation of Murillo Mendez poem "Mapas". Only to see if there is some commonality of images. What some may call a common significance. I said a good translation because having seen several I found different interpretation of Mendez's words. Of course Alex as a Spanish speaker would be able to do his own translation of a Brazilian style Portuguese. While I spent a number of years in a course in counseling psychologies, I have never found anything meaningful or useful in my own dreams. I now attribute that to an absence of a necessity to project a mental state into the visionary canvas of a dream. It is a different matter when one must interpret the dream expressions of someone is a therapeutic relation, where it becomes evident that dreams, writings or drawings reflect interior states of that person's mind.
Lately, I've been having similar thoughts-maybe I can't either. My dreams don't seem particularly meaningful, but they are definitely strange. I'm considering doing a few episodes on Dreams and Sleep. Do you have any recommendations?
@@philosophybabble No, I have never had an interest in working with dreams. However dreams are referred to often in presentations by psychiatrists turned into "divulgatori" , an Italian term for those who are no longer in clinical work but use modern media to popularize their opinions. One of them, Umberto Galimberti, never fails to mention that dreams are a state of "folly", that is states where, primarily, the principle of non-contradiction and the imposition of a space-time framework are suspended or not operative.
@@antoniofiorentinodistefano2940 That’s an interesting take on dreams! I can see how Umberto Galimberti view dreams as a form of "folly" where the usual rules of logic and time don’t apply. It reminds me of the practice of Dream Yoga in Tibetan Buddhism, where dreams are seen not as irrational, but as opportunities to cultivate awareness. Instead of viewing dreams as chaotic, practitioners work to become conscious within them, using them as a tool for spiritual growth. Another perspective comes from Mark Solms, who studies dreams through psychoanalysis. He focuses on how dreams reflect deeper psychological processes rather than dismissing them as mere "folly." It’s fascinating to see these different viewpoints-both the spiritual and the scientific-intersect.
@@philosophybabble Any phenomenon that is frameable, circular and reproducible can be used as a therapeutic instrument. Essentially a new language that must be learned and shared. Wittgenstein might call it a new language game. First problem is determining what its framework and language are choosing to include or to leave out of the lived experience. Is it really advancing genuine therapy or simply moving focus in some other direction? One could follow the experience of Dane Rudhyar who became very popular with the advent of "New Age" thinking.. Once drawn into Astrology to explain personality and consciousness he struggled to escape its limitations by bringing into it humanism and transpersonal psychology. I enjoyed the video and hope to follow your site, although I cannot spend any more time to contribute to it.
It appears as though the only agency given to ANY 'Ism,' is built upon the unprovable provability given to it by any individual agent. Collective passion (agency) increases the juice that literally must hold it together. WE appear to control this force as a collective consciousness. If so, maybe the ONLY question we should be asking is what we should be doing with this eternally illusive force that appears to have brought 'All that Is' into existence.
I only take exception to your words "We appear to control this force...". My impression is that "this force" controls without the need of our awareness of what that "subjective other" intrusion does. In its unfoldment our awareness serves to provide a necessary milieu and a disposition that facilitates that intrusion to occur. That insight gathered from experiences throughout my life, does not exclude postulating a collective unconscious, but only within our conception of "mind" and brain function. The many experiences in my life that I have had to attribute to a "subjective Other" point to a subjectivity that remains completely and ineffably unmanifest, and beyond our apprehension of space-time. I hope this makes sense.
@@antoniofiorentinodistefano2940 I think we may be on the same page. In my words (subject to ambiguity) - everything unmanifest would be considered a unified quantum field. The subjectivity arises as the force within our collective construct of space-time. -The many, and ongoing permutations of Agency manifest as 'all that is'. The only difference I see is that, from my view, even sub-atomic particles couldn't exist without the conceptual mind-brain function. Maybe you would agree.
Since the mid 90s, I've seen Paradox at the very foundation of any "realistic Ontology". Space/Time is a Paradox. Consciousness is a Paradox. Life is a Paradox. Any given set of circumstances will burn down to reveal a Paradox at it's core. I think our "rules" for Logic are incomplete because they don't treat Paradox correctly, and insist that it is a violation of Logic, itself. But Logic itself, is based on Paradox, a la Godel. I also think that insisting that the Universe be "consistent" is also a fallacy. The Universe is dynamic. The conversations and conventions we use to formulate our models need to reflect these deeper truths and we need to step away from the Western obsession of Reductionism, Consistency, and the elimination of Paradox. I don't think we'll make genuine "progress" (whatever that is), until we have better tools and language to delve into the genuine Paradox of why there is Something instead of Nothing.
I have been reading up on autistic elopement and it is worrying. One thing that occurred to me, surely a young man barefoot, would be a health and safety issue on a plane. Surely someone would have noticed that? Or maybe by then he was wearing shoes?
@@The_Spuddler Autistic individuals often experience heightened sensitivity to stimuli. If someone with autism is without shoes, it could indicate that they feel overwhelmed by wearing them. Have you considered their stress level?
@@philosophybabble Yes, from what I have read, stress plays a major part in it. I posted what I discovered about Autistic elopement on my community page. It is an interesting read.
Perhaps the literal can be understood as that which can mentioned or scripted. And the no non literal as a word defying, indescribable zine? Yet one is the foreground to the other? Yes not two zones.
@philosohybabble Yes! The literal consists of that which can be described - yet aspects of it remain unknown thus the need for science. Things exist and act - verbing nouns - in the present while depending on relation to other aspects of the Literal field for definition. The word-defying non-literal is inert,meta omnipresent, all-pervasive. The Lair of Logos. Sheer, raw awareness
silicon; heisenberg's uncertainty; is shreddinger's cat(ch); shadow is what we see in others and don't recognize in our selves; edges; and the bell curve(s) of opposite(s); you don't need to believe me; thank silicon; for poetry;
Search Professor Cris Shores 2024 open paper: Management Consultants and University Futures: Academic capitalism and the capture of UK public higher education.
I found this after seeing Andreaa in another talk hearing her reference you. I am so happy to find strong women philosopher in this philosophy world. And now you too
What a lovely message-thank you for sharing that! I'm so glad to be part of this amazing community and to connect with others who share a passion for philosophy.
what a great gift this was and is Ivy, thank you❤
@@waymaking23 Thanks so much! I’m glad you liked it, and it was all possible because of you. Appreciate you being there as well-means a lot!
Excellent. Andrea, I'm sure it won't surprise you, but this might be my favorite discussion that you've had/shared up to date. Very good, and keep on "stalking the wild pendulum";)
I LOVE conversations like this! Thank you so much for making this 🙏 I dream of winning the lottery big time and have the time and resources to create and facilitate a filmed symposium over several days and invite people like Andrea, Alex, Ian McGilchrist, Bernardo Kastrup, Michael Levin etc. but also 'skeptics' from various areas of academia to discuss these topics here, so that can be shared with the world instead of "just" having these discussions in various silos on separate YT-channels. A world forum discussing these important things with open minded experts I think could be a great gift to humanity.
Don't forget to do that should your wish come through.
@@antoniofiorentinodistefano2940 Oh I wont! It would be kind of finding a purpose for my life 🙂
@@skemsen Join us for a live conversation with Thomas Metzinger and Michael Levin on November 1st, exclusively on the Clubhouse app. Don’t miss it!😊
Edges is a great way of saying I have all this history and here is the summit of my thinking about these fields. The edge and all it's learning is where imagination should be taking the lead.
Great conversation.
this is inspiring flow to surf
thanks so much;
for bringing these two together;
in this unique free-form format;
i am really pleased to absorb it;
Cheers! We’ve got several other videos with a similar free-flowing style.
So happy to see Alex on here! He’s right about academia. I was a neuroscientists and was maybe even more cynical than he is in the end. I ended up leaving heartbroken. You go into something for the search for Truth and then you see the truth is that it’s a money machine like everything else. (I know that’s an over simplification.) But I’m still a scientist/academic at heart! It’s podcasts like these that nourish the part of me that was starving in academia. I wish I’d had Alex to commiserate with back in my lonely academic years!
I'm beginning to think that we all should talk about dreams more frequently.
With regard to Alex's dreams, I would suggest he read ( assuming he has not done so already) a good translation of Murillo Mendez poem "Mapas". Only to see if there is some commonality of images. What some may call a common significance. I said a good translation because having seen several I found different interpretation of Mendez's words. Of course Alex as a Spanish speaker would be able to do his own translation of a Brazilian style Portuguese. While I spent a number of years in a course in counseling psychologies, I have never found anything meaningful or useful in my own dreams. I now attribute that to an absence of a necessity to project a mental state into the visionary canvas of a dream. It is a different matter when one must interpret the dream expressions of someone is a therapeutic relation, where it becomes evident that dreams, writings or drawings reflect interior states of that person's mind.
Lately, I've been having similar thoughts-maybe I can't either. My dreams don't seem particularly meaningful, but they are definitely strange. I'm considering doing a few episodes on Dreams and Sleep. Do you have any recommendations?
@@philosophybabble No, I have never had an interest in working with dreams. However dreams are referred to often in presentations by psychiatrists turned into "divulgatori" , an Italian term for those who are no longer in clinical work but use modern media to popularize their opinions. One of them, Umberto Galimberti, never fails to mention that dreams are a state of "folly", that is states where, primarily, the principle of non-contradiction and the imposition of a space-time framework are suspended or not operative.
@@antoniofiorentinodistefano2940 That’s an interesting take on dreams! I can see how Umberto Galimberti view dreams as a form of "folly" where the usual rules of logic and time don’t apply. It reminds me of the practice of Dream Yoga in Tibetan Buddhism, where dreams are seen not as irrational, but as opportunities to cultivate awareness. Instead of viewing dreams as chaotic, practitioners work to become conscious within them, using them as a tool for spiritual growth.
Another perspective comes from Mark Solms, who studies dreams through psychoanalysis. He focuses on how dreams reflect deeper psychological processes rather than dismissing them as mere "folly." It’s fascinating to see these different viewpoints-both the spiritual and the scientific-intersect.
@@philosophybabble Any phenomenon that is frameable, circular and reproducible can be used as a therapeutic instrument. Essentially a new language that must be learned and shared. Wittgenstein might call it a new language game. First problem is determining what its framework and language are choosing to include or to leave out of the lived experience. Is it really advancing genuine therapy or simply moving focus in some other direction? One could follow the experience of Dane Rudhyar who became very popular with the advent of "New Age" thinking.. Once drawn into Astrology to explain personality and consciousness he struggled to escape its limitations by bringing into it humanism and transpersonal psychology. I enjoyed the video and hope to follow your site, although I cannot spend any more time to contribute to it.
Read Heraclitean Fire as the author describes what you are describing beautifully and it was written in 1978. Edwin Chart are is the author.
Erwin Chargaff. Memorable book.
It appears as though the only agency given to ANY 'Ism,' is built upon the unprovable provability given to it by any individual agent. Collective passion (agency) increases the juice that literally must hold it together. WE appear to control this force as a collective consciousness. If so, maybe the ONLY question we should be asking is what we should be doing with this eternally illusive force that appears to have brought 'All that Is' into existence.
I only take exception to your words "We appear to control this force...". My impression is that "this force" controls without the need of our awareness of what that "subjective other" intrusion does. In its unfoldment our awareness serves to provide a necessary milieu and a disposition that facilitates that intrusion to occur. That insight gathered from experiences throughout my life, does not exclude postulating a collective unconscious, but only within our conception of "mind" and brain function. The many experiences in my life that I have had to attribute to a "subjective Other" point to a subjectivity that remains completely and ineffably unmanifest, and beyond our apprehension of space-time. I hope this makes sense.
@@antoniofiorentinodistefano2940 I think we may be on the same page. In my words (subject to ambiguity) - everything unmanifest would be considered a unified quantum field. The subjectivity arises as the force within our collective construct of space-time. -The many, and ongoing permutations of Agency manifest as 'all that is'. The only difference I see is that, from my view, even sub-atomic particles couldn't exist without the conceptual mind-brain function. Maybe you would agree.
9:00 For god's sake somebody also talk to him about Joseph Hilary Michael Whiteman's work (mathematician and mystic).
This is the most important question..
Why he hasn't published his findings yet?????
Yes, he has published it and even won the Linda G. O'Bryant Noetic Sciences Research Prize. Here’s the link to the paper: tinyurl.com/mt5s3xmn
Since the mid 90s, I've seen Paradox at the very foundation of any "realistic Ontology". Space/Time is a Paradox. Consciousness is a Paradox. Life is a Paradox. Any given set of circumstances will burn down to reveal a Paradox at it's core. I think our "rules" for Logic are incomplete because they don't treat Paradox correctly, and insist that it is a violation of Logic, itself. But Logic itself, is based on Paradox, a la Godel. I also think that insisting that the Universe be "consistent" is also a fallacy. The Universe is dynamic. The conversations and conventions we use to formulate our models need to reflect these deeper truths and we need to step away from the Western obsession of Reductionism, Consistency, and the elimination of Paradox. I don't think we'll make genuine "progress" (whatever that is), until we have better tools and language to delve into the genuine Paradox of why there is Something instead of Nothing.
Andrea is a unicorn
Andrea is a true gem, both extraordinary and full of compassion.
#bringbergsonback
I have been reading up on autistic elopement and it is worrying. One thing that occurred to me, surely a young man barefoot, would be a health and safety issue on a plane. Surely someone would have noticed that? Or maybe by then he was wearing shoes?
@@The_Spuddler Autistic individuals often experience heightened sensitivity to stimuli. If someone with autism is without shoes, it could indicate that they feel overwhelmed by wearing them. Have you considered their stress level?
@@philosophybabble Yes, from what I have read, stress plays a major part in it. I posted what I discovered about Autistic elopement on my community page. It is an interesting read.
Perhaps the literal can be understood as that which can mentioned or scripted. And the no non literal as a word defying, indescribable zine? Yet one is the foreground to the other? Yes not two zones.
The literal provides the framework or foreground, while the non-literal expands beyond it, pushing boundaries. Interesting thought!
@philosohybabble
Yes! The literal consists of that which can be described - yet aspects of it remain unknown thus the need for science. Things exist and act - verbing nouns - in the present while depending on relation to other aspects of the Literal field for definition.
The word-defying
non-literal is inert,meta
omnipresent, all-pervasive.
The Lair of Logos.
Sheer, raw awareness
i'm an infinitist;
yeah, i get defensive;
before i conquer;
lol;
silicon;
heisenberg's uncertainty;
is shreddinger's cat(ch);
shadow is what we see in others and don't recognize in our selves;
edges;
and the bell curve(s) of opposite(s);
you don't need to believe me;
thank silicon;
for poetry;
Haha, infinite possibilities, infinite defenses-sounds like the perfect strategy for ultimate victory! 😄 Conquer on, infinitist!
with your help;
i might be able to start a cult;
@@infinidimensionalinfinitie5021 😄
Chargaff
Search Professor Cris Shores 2024 open paper: Management Consultants and University Futures: Academic capitalism
and the capture of UK public higher education.
@@geoffreydawson5430 thanks, Geoffrey