@@PrimaryArmsOptics see that’s what I’m talking about. The current affairs of the military are pretty sad. As a currently serving member I have seen the most insane gear choices made by the most unqualified individuals. Then the actual end user pays the price. I mean they picked a great scope but then neutered it with reticle choice. On top of that every marine is now carrying one heck of a heavy rifle! We are talking M1 Garand weight but shooting 556. Then add one more issue the new ammo destroys the guns! 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Agree with your overview. For 3-gun competition where most shots are inside of 300 yards (500 yards max), BDC all the way. For PRS matches where most targets are 2 MOA or less, it's Mil/MOA sitting on a rifle that can achieve that level of precision. In both cases, chrono your loads, use accurate weather inputs in your ballistic software and confirm holdovers at the range!
Wicked. Thank you, I really like my ACSS Raptor 1-8 for 5.56. But was thinking about building a 308 dmr and was considering MIL instead, but for the use case and build type I intend for it, that doesn't make much sense now that i better understand MIL's use case.
IMI M193 55 grain was shooting below 1 moa with 18" Cold Hammer Forged barrel on my old Ruger MPR (with Triggertech Diamond trigger) at 100 yards. It definitely is possible, it's just most M193 ammo sucks. I was able to keyhole shots at 112 yards or so, when I really tried. Same ammo.
You've shown it a couple of times now...when do we get an acknowledgment of the new magnifier? It looks like it uses the G33 mounting footprint. But I'm a little concerned that the profile might not allow for mounting to a Unity Tactical FAST fold to center mount. Which, in my opinion, is the only feasible magnifier mounting option for me. Is th something you guys have played with yet? Keep up the fantastic work brother! Your contributions are underrated!
I’ve been using Mils for several Decades and it’s hard for me to change but I have a BDC specific Sightmark Optic on my AR platform for .308 and it’s dead on with my 1:7 HBAR shooting.77 grain .556 Hornady.. I love the MARPAT lol Semper Fi.
@@PrimaryArmsOptics just the Mils…The BDC Optics are nice you just have to shoot to confirm it’s accurate to the load you work up and it’s a really nice way to go if you don’t want to do any Math.. lol I like my Mils though..
@@PrimaryArmsOptics Lol very much so just using DOPE and memory.. I think every Rifleman who is serious about shooting should know Mil-Dot ranging and shooting and not to rely on BDC Optics solely , they are not consistent. I am an amazing Shot out to 600 yards but that’s as far as my Old eyes will let me go anymore. It’s not a Jab a Primary Arms Optics I just happen to know and prefer a Sightmark or a Vortex budget line Optic with standard Mil-Dot reticle. I cut my teeth on an M16-A2 in 1991 and just prefer Old School shooting that works and has worked for Decades.
I use an ACSS on my grendel with a 12.5" barrel. It's harder to remember the hold for 200 yards, but every line or marking has gotta land somewhere! And yes, it's still moa accurate at 200. At least mostly. I only focus on being able to kill game at that range. Hand loads, obviously. You can plink 12" steel at 237 all day. (yeah, yeah, I know 12" is more than 1 moa at 237, I'm just stating yet another capability I have by using a bdc reticle, sheesh!) I'd actually like to see a what a world class shooter could do with it. Cuz I know it'll be way more than me!
I can always use mils as a BDC, but I cannot generally estimate meters using a BDC. So for my applications, mils make the most sense. I am also not in the profession of shooting people. In that black swan event, it will be well within any range that would typically require any optics whatsoever. That being said, I wouldn't feel at a massive disadvantage if I were somehow found myself using a BDC. Or even just old school thin crosshairs, which I do still use for hunting (hornady, 7mm sst zero at 25m, no more than 3" high or low to 300m, and all of my shots will be well within those limits). I know its almost Fudd talk to say this, simple crosshairs work for most practical applications. That being said, freedom means we don't need to be practical. A Honda will get you to where you want to go, but its more fun to arrive in a limo. Needless to say, I do enjoy your products, your turrets track better than other brands who cost significantly more.
With ACSS “50 yard zero for 77grain” like you mentioned, what about 77grain in a 10.5” barrel? You touched on that in the 1x micro prism video but it wasn’t clear when you mentioned the 10.5” if you were referring to the 77grain or 55.
I'm looking at the 5x prism for an 18" grendel AR-15 relatively new to shooting past 100 yards. Should I get the aurora reticle or the standard acss? Does it even matter? will the aurora allow me to better fine tune my bdc because it's mil based?Shooting wolf 100gr. and Hornady black 123gr
I have several of your scopes, they work great especially my Trijicon ACSS. I need you to consider making a product for long range shooters. I have been shooting long range for 30yrs but there is nothing on the market to fit the equipment we need. With your expertise and connections I believe you would be interested in my idea. I have sent a message to Primary Arms but they would not put me in touch with you to discuss this. They wanted me to give them the idea but I declined and messaged them I wanted to talk to you. If possible leave me a reply where you can be contacted. Have a great 4th of July.
@@PrimaryArmsOptics I was just kidding. I'm throwing the 175 smk out of a 20" at about 2520ish fps. I believe the BDC is more suitable for the 147 grain or something going at around 2700-2750 fps. I was joking that I'm loading my match kings HOT. I have the GLx I don't use the BDC typically I am dialing around 8.5 mils at 800 yards. For 100-600 yards it pretty much lines up with the reticle. At 600 I have to hold half way between the mil dot and the 600 marker. At 800 I have to hold at 9 mils mark between the 800 and 1000
Mr Dimitri, Which ACSS BDC scope/reticle would you recommend for 0-800 yds with a 6.5 Grendel 20" ? Purpose is home defense and target shooting. Thanks, cityboy
@@PrimaryArmsOptics would the Apollo 6.5 Grendel also use 123 as the load? Would zero be 50 or 100?Building a MK12 in that load and want to use the Grendel/308 Apollo for it.
@@PrimaryArmsOptics lol right! I think it may have been on Johnny B... PICK ONE: 1) ar15s are a weapon of war and should be banned 2) you're gonna need f15s and nukes to resist a tyrannical government
Red Dot, 1x prism, or for more versatility out to 400 yards, a 3x prism.. I think 9 hole reviews channel here on TH-cam took a 10.5" AR out to 500 yards with a 3 or 5X PA Prism scope and did so well they surprised themselves.. They set out to prove the 10.5's shortcomings at longer ranges and got the opposite result.. They made hits out to a 500 yard gong with only a few misses.
Two questions- 1 would you recommend a ffp or sfp ACSS for an ar platform, my version of a mk12 spr, but same use as what you were discussing. 2 is there a formula or anything to beable to calibrate the bdc to my load?
Man the FFP is over rated for most LPVOs it’s cool in very specific circumstances but otherwise the glass is a little less clear and without the reticle illuminated it’s hard to use up close in certain weather conditions. Just get yourself the regular SFP ACSS and run MK262 equivalent loads out of it and zero at 50 yards. Then you will be super close. Afterwards fine tune the zero at like 400-500 yards. And you will be able to run from 10 yards to 600 in literal Seconds. No special equipment no range finders nothing just your eye ball and the rifle. I have a MK12 set up like this and I can run with or with other can and hit 1/3 size IPSC steel targets from 0-600 yards first round hit in almost any weather unless the wind and rain get really really stupid. Now 700-800 I can make hits but my hit probability definitely drops beyond that because man wind just pushes a 556. Trust me you will not regret the set up I just quoted ya. But don’t crap out on your mount!!!! Get one of the PA or ADM mounts plenty good. 👍🏻
@@MinimumSpeedOperator thanks. I appreciate it. I havent decided yet but im gonna run one of these, 75gr bthp 73 gr eld or 77gr smk. I have 75gr bthp at home but not sure which round id perfer. Running a 1:7 WOA 18" spr barrel so should be good no matter what
@@wildlandoutdoors51 oh absolutely 50 will get you close then true it up from there. I remember the first time I took my ACSS 1-6 out and tested it in 2014 and it honestly made me laugh it was so easy. It is freaking Genius! In 15 minutes of range time you will be smoking 500-600 yard targets. With a bit of practice you will be able to run and gun up close then practice drills for taking snap medium range shot similar to a realistic scenario and that’s when you will realize this is the way. Good luck brother sounds like you have a nice rig coming together.
This is why I advocate the 4MOA dot on a RDS with a 25yd or 23m zero with NATO M193 or XM193 using a 16" barrel. The Dot becomes your BDC. Most civys use cheap-ass XM193.. powder mixed with Olga's toe nail chippings and lead made from melted frying pans... This shit SUCKS people..but its what everyone has and in the "end of days" it will be the most commonly used round. Even the good Lake City isnt that great. WHY? Cuz everyone thinks they are a SEAL/Ranger/Rambo with a 14-16in barrel. You are not hitting that 250yrd threat hiding behind a tree with it... even with your 2MOA dot.. its NOT happening. Once you understand your ammo's limitations and knows it ballistic trajectory in relation to your DOT, you understand the 4MOA dot alone is a BDC.
Not trolling, but you are basically saying that any 1-6 power LPVO is pointless with anything other than BDC. So the Vortex Razor HD Gen II or II-E in MRAD or MOA is useless?
Excellent video brother. Its killing me that the Marine Corps is going to Mil dot in its LPVO for grunts.
Yes dude it is stupid! The VCOG is an excellent scope but they should have simply placed the ACSS aurora reticle in it.
@@PrimaryArmsOptics see that’s what I’m talking about. The current affairs of the military are pretty sad. As a currently serving member I have seen the most insane gear choices made by the most unqualified individuals. Then the actual end user pays the price. I mean they picked a great scope but then neutered it with reticle choice. On top of that every marine is now carrying one heck of a heavy rifle! We are talking M1 Garand weight but shooting 556. Then add one more issue the new ammo destroys the guns! 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@southern842 exactly
Damn... Recent USMC vet. The fact they won't use / acknowledge ACSS is killing me. It's the fastest, best solution at medium / short I've ever seen.
Agree with your overview. For 3-gun competition where most shots are inside of 300 yards (500 yards max), BDC all the way. For PRS matches where most targets are 2 MOA or less, it's Mil/MOA sitting on a rifle that can achieve that level of precision. In both cases, chrono your loads, use accurate weather inputs in your ballistic software and confirm holdovers at the range!
exactly
Valuable knowledge Dimitri, thank you sir! 🇺🇸
Glad it was helpful!
very informative video from the man himself. we need more of these.
Thank you for the explanation. much needed information. We have two ACCS scopes. Getting more.
Much respect brother. I have a dozen ACSS optics and love them.
Extremely helpful video, thank you
Love the ACSS system. Thank you for the video.
Wicked. Thank you, I really like my ACSS Raptor 1-8 for 5.56. But was thinking about building a 308 dmr and was considering MIL instead, but for the use case and build type I intend for it, that doesn't make much sense now that i better understand MIL's use case.
Super useful... so much to learn. Thanks.
Great information really appreciate it
Great explanation, thanks.
Thank you thumbs up and shared.
Thank you for some real world gun sense.
Well presented Dimitri. Very well said.
Well said sir! Most of my optics are primary arms and I love them for value/performance ratio! Everyone have a great 4th of July weekend 😁
Great teaching skills!!
Such a good video!
You're not wrong brother.
Good info!
Very good information
Very good info... could you do a favor and turn the camera horizontal please?
Good video, please turn your camera to wide screen next time. Thank you.
That was a nice bolt gun you broke out, what make/model was it?
IMI M193 55 grain was shooting below 1 moa with 18" Cold Hammer Forged barrel on my old Ruger MPR (with Triggertech Diamond trigger) at 100 yards.
It definitely is possible, it's just most M193 ammo sucks.
I was able to keyhole shots at 112 yards or so, when I really tried. Same ammo.
You've shown it a couple of times now...when do we get an acknowledgment of the new magnifier? It looks like it uses the G33 mounting footprint. But I'm a little concerned that the profile might not allow for mounting to a Unity Tactical FAST fold to center mount. Which, in my opinion, is the only feasible magnifier mounting option for me. Is th something you guys have played with yet? Keep up the fantastic work brother! Your contributions are underrated!
I’ve been using Mils for several Decades and it’s hard for me to change but I have a BDC specific Sightmark Optic on my AR platform for .308 and it’s dead on with my 1:7 HBAR shooting.77 grain .556 Hornady.. I love the MARPAT lol Semper Fi.
if you have used it forever I hope you have it all memorized and in order.
@@PrimaryArmsOptics just the Mils…The BDC Optics are nice you just have to shoot to confirm it’s accurate to the load you work up and it’s a really nice way to go if you don’t want to do any Math.. lol I like my Mils though..
@@PrimaryArmsOptics Lol very much so just using DOPE and memory.. I think every Rifleman who is serious about shooting should know Mil-Dot ranging and shooting and not to rely on BDC Optics solely , they are not consistent. I am an amazing Shot out to 600 yards but that’s as far as my Old eyes will let me go anymore. It’s not a Jab a Primary Arms Optics I just happen to know and prefer a Sightmark or a Vortex budget line Optic with standard Mil-Dot reticle. I cut my teeth on an M16-A2 in 1991 and just prefer Old School shooting that works and has worked for Decades.
@@willtrax71 you should try out the Athena BPR mil reticle
@@PrimaryArmsOptics I’m absolutely going to as soon as I finish typing lol.. stay safe and Semper Fi.
I use an ACSS on my grendel with a 12.5" barrel. It's harder to remember the hold for 200 yards, but every line or marking has gotta land somewhere!
And yes, it's still moa accurate at 200. At least mostly. I only focus on being able to kill game at that range. Hand loads, obviously. You can plink 12" steel at 237 all day. (yeah, yeah, I know 12" is more than 1 moa at 237, I'm just stating yet another capability I have by using a bdc reticle, sheesh!)
I'd actually like to see a what a world class shooter could do with it. Cuz I know it'll be way more than me!
Yes
I can always use mils as a BDC, but I cannot generally estimate meters using a BDC. So for my applications, mils make the most sense.
I am also not in the profession of shooting people. In that black swan event, it will be well within any range that would typically require any optics whatsoever.
That being said, I wouldn't feel at a massive disadvantage if I were somehow found myself using a BDC.
Or even just old school thin crosshairs, which I do still use for hunting (hornady, 7mm sst zero at 25m, no more than 3" high or low to 300m, and all of my shots will be well within those limits). I know its almost Fudd talk to say this, simple crosshairs work for most practical applications.
That being said, freedom means we don't need to be practical. A Honda will get you to where you want to go, but its more fun to arrive in a limo.
Needless to say, I do enjoy your products, your turrets track better than other brands who cost significantly more.
The BDC reticle is the only way to go for defense of self or Country!!!
for 0-600 sh on a fighting rifle yes for long range precision mils are a better tool
With ACSS “50 yard zero for 77grain” like you mentioned, what about 77grain in a 10.5” barrel? You touched on that in the 1x micro prism video but it wasn’t clear when you mentioned the 10.5” if you were referring to the 77grain or 55.
So for GPR use BDC reticle, for SPR/DMR MIL reticle.
I'm looking at the 5x prism for an 18" grendel AR-15 relatively new to shooting past 100 yards. Should I get the aurora reticle or the standard acss? Does it even matter? will the aurora allow me to better fine tune my bdc because it's mil based?Shooting wolf 100gr. and Hornady black 123gr
I have several of your scopes, they work great especially my Trijicon ACSS. I need you to consider making a product for long range shooters. I have been shooting long range for 30yrs but there is nothing on the market to fit the equipment we need. With your expertise and connections I believe you would be interested in my idea. I have sent a message to Primary Arms but they would not put me in touch with you to discuss this. They wanted me to give them the idea but I declined and messaged them I wanted to talk to you. If possible leave me a reply where you can be contacted. Have a great 4th of July.
did you see the Athena BPR
I bought your 308 hud DMr and it didnt match m118lr so I added more powder to make it match the reticle and blew up my gun.
And what fps were getting? not matching up where on a calculator or the field? if field how many mils were you off and at what ranges?
@@PrimaryArmsOptics I was just kidding. I'm throwing the 175 smk out of a 20" at about 2520ish fps. I believe the BDC is more suitable for the 147 grain or something going at around 2700-2750 fps. I was joking that I'm loading my match kings HOT.
I have the GLx I don't use the BDC typically I am dialing around 8.5 mils at 800 yards.
For 100-600 yards it pretty much lines up with the reticle. At 600 I have to hold half way between the mil dot and the 600 marker. At 800 I have to hold at 9 mils mark between the 800 and 1000
@@slipknnnot all you got to do is add like half a mil and should be on at 900-1000 hit me up on primaryarms instagram and Ill help you
Mr Dimitri,
Which ACSS BDC scope/reticle would you recommend for 0-800 yds with a 6.5 Grendel 20" ? Purpose is home defense and target shooting.
Thanks,
cityboy
Just to clarify, my intended role would be to favor 300 yards plus, with the ability to flex for cqb.
1-6x 1-8x ACSS use 123gr and zero at 50 yards fine tune at 300 yards using the 300bdc mark if you ever get a chance.
@@PrimaryArmsOptics Thank you , sir.
@@PrimaryArmsOptics would the Apollo 6.5 Grendel also use 123 as the load? Would zero be 50 or 100?Building a MK12 in that load and want to use the Grendel/308 Apollo for it.
Dimitri I used to watch your pod cast so tell me where are they now?
instagram
Well said
I am making an F15 ACSS reticle
@@PrimaryArmsOptics lol right! I think it may have been on Johnny B...
PICK ONE:
1) ar15s are a weapon of war and should be banned
2) you're gonna need f15s and nukes to resist a tyrannical government
@@PrimaryArmsOptics love my 6.5Cr Apollo and my 1-8x Giffin Mil, best of both worlds! #1 in their spaces
What do you suggest for a 10.5 inch barrel?
Red Dot, 1x prism, or for more versatility out to 400 yards, a 3x prism.. I think 9 hole reviews channel here on TH-cam took a 10.5" AR out to 500 yards with a 3 or 5X PA Prism scope and did so well they surprised themselves.. They set out to prove the 10.5's shortcomings at longer ranges and got the opposite result.. They made hits out to a 500 yard gong with only a few misses.
What is best zero distance for glx 2.5 / 10 raptor reticle
What do you recommend for 6.5 Grendel?
Depends how long is your barrel and what ammo?
@@PrimaryArmsOptics 20" VEPR using Wolf 100Grain ammo.
Two questions- 1 would you recommend a ffp or sfp ACSS for an ar platform, my version of a mk12 spr, but same use as what you were discussing. 2 is there a formula or anything to beable to calibrate the bdc to my load?
Man the FFP is over rated for most LPVOs it’s cool in very specific circumstances but otherwise the glass is a little less clear and without the reticle illuminated it’s hard to use up close in certain weather conditions. Just get yourself the regular SFP ACSS and run MK262 equivalent loads out of it and zero at 50 yards. Then you will be super close. Afterwards fine tune the zero at like 400-500 yards. And you will be able to run from 10 yards to 600 in literal Seconds. No special equipment no range finders nothing just your eye ball and the rifle. I have a MK12 set up like this and I can run with or with other can and hit 1/3 size IPSC steel targets from 0-600 yards first round hit in almost any weather unless the wind and rain get really really stupid. Now 700-800 I can make hits but my hit probability definitely drops beyond that because man wind just pushes a 556. Trust me you will not regret the set up I just quoted ya. But don’t crap out on your mount!!!! Get one of the PA or ADM mounts plenty good. 👍🏻
@@MinimumSpeedOperator thanks. I appreciate it. I havent decided yet but im gonna run one of these, 75gr bthp 73 gr eld or 77gr smk. I have 75gr bthp at home but not sure which round id perfer. Running a 1:7 WOA 18" spr barrel so should be good no matter what
@@wildlandoutdoors51 oh absolutely 50 will get you close then true it up from there. I remember the first time I took my ACSS 1-6 out and tested it in 2014 and it honestly made me laugh it was so easy. It is freaking Genius! In 15 minutes of range time you will be smoking 500-600 yard targets. With a bit of practice you will be able to run and gun up close then practice drills for taking snap medium range shot similar to a realistic scenario and that’s when you will realize this is the way. Good luck brother sounds like you have a nice rig coming together.
Yes a lot of misinformation just died in this short video.
This is why I advocate the 4MOA dot on a RDS with a 25yd or 23m zero with NATO M193 or XM193 using a 16" barrel. The Dot becomes your BDC. Most civys use cheap-ass XM193.. powder mixed with Olga's toe nail chippings and lead made from melted frying pans... This shit SUCKS people..but its what everyone has and in the "end of days" it will be the most commonly used round. Even the good Lake City isnt that great. WHY? Cuz everyone thinks they are a SEAL/Ranger/Rambo with a 14-16in barrel. You are not hitting that 250yrd threat hiding behind a tree with it... even with your 2MOA dot.. its NOT happening. Once you understand your ammo's limitations and knows it ballistic trajectory in relation to your DOT, you understand the 4MOA dot alone is a BDC.
Not trolling, but you are basically saying that any 1-6 power LPVO is pointless with anything other than BDC. So the Vortex Razor HD Gen II or II-E in MRAD or MOA is useless?