Unbalanced or Realistic? Is the AK-12 Overpowered? - ArmA 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ม.ค. 2017
- Are the ballistics of the AK12 and AKM realistic or unbalanced for gameplay? Today I talk about the above question for 16 minutes.
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"Don't aim for their head. Aim for the ass." - OperatorDrewski 2k17
Gr8 tactics m8
THIS WILL DEFINITELY INCREASE MY K/D, RIGHT DAD?
DEF SON
DEF
Racingboom The Pleb Don't forget to call everyone you hate hackers, son.
AK-12 and 7,62 rounds? Questionable. The standard military version of the AK-12 uses 5,45 x 39mm ammo like its predecessor the AK 74. The caliber was introduced in order to have an equivalent to the 5,56 NATO ammunition in the time large caliber standard Battlerifles became redundant. Nonetheless, I understand the developer's decision to introduce only a 7,62 x 39 version, as I believe it represents a new round type in Arma and thus adds to the game's weapon versatility.
I appreciate the effort you put into proving these alleged balancing issues by performing tests. It really shows how much the game and its balance means to you.
I think they wanted to make it 7.62 in ArmA therefore the mags were interchangable with the AKM, which is commonly used by the same faction that uses the Ak12 ingame.
I fully agree, it's odd tho.
Especially considering there is all ready 5.45x39 by way of the AKU.
Exactly, they could've just gone with a type of 7.62 AK pistol rather than the AK74U
The Ak12 is beeing marketet to use 5.56x45, 5.45x39, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 in RL
You know that you should make your point on the arma forum and the Feedback tracker if you want to achive anything
5.56 in Arma is basically a toy, whereas 7.62 is treated as firing boulders at the enemy.
That's hardly true. The SPAR-16 I find superior under 300m - 400m. At those close ranges, the number of rounds on target needed for a kill are practically equal, but the greater RoF and control-ability allow me to dispatch enemies much quicker.
Agreed
I used to be an adventurer like you
Then I took a 7.62 to the knee.
So what your telling me is to get an Ak12 and aim for the legs
Specifically for the toe.
Chris T Works best when firing rifle without ammunition as well.
Depends upon body armour they are wearing, when wearing level 3 and up then yah go for the thighs.
Since introduction of more hitpoints on the body and simulation of bulletproof plates, it is very good to shoot at the waist, groin which are the locations of torso that are unprotected and is generally one shot to kill from even 5,56
Grenadier vests are the only ones with groin protection
Exactly, and even if you don't kill him with one shot and he somehow scape, he will not be able to run anyway :D
Here's 4 choice for y'all to choose
Realistically Balanced
Realistically Unbalanced
Unrealistically Balanced
Unrealistically Unbalanced
Uhh... idk man
Raphael My guess is that falls under "realistically balanced"
I used to use the Type 115 so I had an on-demand .50 for when I needed to shoot through walls. But then I realized the AK12 will penetrate every house on Altis.
The left hand holding the AK12 looks so weird :( Bothers me a lot tbh
They fixed it!
For sure the best, most informative video on Arma 3 I have ever seen. Awesome work!
Do the Spar 17 vs ak12
Spar17 is far better due to it having a larger round. 7.62x51 Its actually a really good gun and fun to use.
bit it has 20 rounds less per mag and is heavier, its more of a DMR than a assault rifle
Linus Salomon Vary true, I actually do use it like a dmr anyway.
I use it a lot with a good scope that has a red dot on top and makes for a very versatile weapon
TheTeehee11111 True but in the end I prefer the Cyrus 9.3mm it's a 1-2 hit every time and is a great dmr.
Biggest issue in KOTH is the Stackfor team mechanics. You shouldn't be able to switch teams whenever you want and the team balancing sucks.
It should auto assign you algorithmically to a team when you join the lobby, unless you use "join game" option on steam to play with your friends.
Too much freedom switching around and the game is too punishing to the losing teams, not to mention the armor rating for indie and blufor, spawn locations and different tactical advantages to opfor.
The idea that you should be in the game until the end to get the "big bucks" is also retarded. Most games last 3-4 hours if indie/blufor fight back. No one has time to stick around for 4 hours and even if you are the MVP coming in with all the hot memes and fire mixtapes, obliterating the enemy you still can get a really shitty bonus just because you joined half way through the match.
Also really dumb how OP sniping is with designator. You literally get more XP sniping than playing the objective, if you're getting headshots all the time - it's even more money in some cases - with 500 + xp per kill and if you get a 2000m headshot, it's a $2000 payout.
The xp should be nerfed and the money should be boosted for sniping.
That was a pretty good "I got 'em" compilation ;)
Thankyou ACE, for mostly fixing this.
What about the Zafir? I love it and think it's crazy powerful.
Drewski! You hit 100k! Did Matt let you sign the plaque ?!!
Is sekrit dokuments comrad Ak rifles destroy your little NATO technology ))))))))
what am I doing with my life
lol
Spongebob Saggypants Very gute, comrad, communism wins yet again.
This was awesome! Can you please do one for the other popular KotH weapons, like the MK14? I play a lot with that with a silencer for instance. Not sure exactly how much power is reduced by that, but it seems an enjoyable option because of the confusion it creates.
Great vid Drewski, always thought ak12 was a bit too powerful but I love it so much :D
I remember the first time AK-12 was available in ArmA 3 it was super powerful. I remember people complaining but I was under the impression that Bohemia fixed it by dialing it down a bit. I did see the difference playing King of the Hill (HC of course :) )
Please do one about Car 95 vs Ak 12 or anything related to CAR 95, to me CAR 95 hits like a truck considering its weight.
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That helmet deflection though... ArmA is crazy
helmets can deflect but its based on which angle you are shooting from
Cool vid, Drewski!
I would like to see a video of your thoughts on the Type 115. In Exile it is my go to weapon for town invasion missions.
2:16 That's proper downward-facing dog yoga position... lol
CSAT uniforms give armor too, so most CSAT load outs are more effective then you would think. Try strapping a viper suit on and a Special carrier rig. Your practically invincible!
A thing about the 22LR.
The vast majority of 22LR ammunition is lubricated with a form of grease, in a way that no modern centerfire ammunition is. As 22LR ammunition sits around, that grease tends to attract dust and dirt and germs and all sorts of septic stuff. Some but not all of it gets scraped off in the barrel: the rest of it gets scraped off in the wound when it hits.
Therefore, a 22LR wound is considerably more likely to turn septic and start a raging life-threatening infection than a 223 or 308 wound is, even though the centerfire wound will be much more serious. If you're shot in a relatively clean environment with a centerfire rifle, and you don't die right away, you'll likely live. If you're shot with a 22LR rifle, you're much more likely to immediately survive the smaller wound, and then later be taken most or all of the way down by an infection.
Drewski your just good, ur overpowered not the weapon ;D
oh stahp it you ;D
OperatorDrewski no I believe he's right how did you even see those far away people??? Lol
Use the shittiest weapon in the game against 3 full squads of opfor AI
Bill Nye the Nazi Spy pdw 2000
The problem, I think, is that games don't distinguish between "dead" and "no longer able to fight" - This causes scenarios where things which wouldn't kill you instantly, but which would render you combat-ineffective instantly and possibly leave you permanently disabled, do actually kill instantly. I think this even applies to ACE somewhat, as broken bones aren't a thing. This is understandable, however, as nobody would want to continue playing a critically wounded soldier (except for milsimmers). How to fix this? In terms of decent gameplay, there may well be no way.
Drewski: Talks about how AKM & AK12's are overpowered
Bohemia Interactive: Makes an AKU12 & RPK12
Regarding the MX, 6.5 is also a very heavy round but it gets to very high speed as well, it's not between RPM and damage it's velocity and damage (weight)
What I'm curious about is the MA5B and M6G in the Operation: Trebuchet mod compared to stock weapons... IDK about the other mods, but in the coop mod I can use these guns and the MA5B is a pretty damn good AR. It's quite controllable on full auto, esp. given that it's firing 7.62x51mm NATO ammo. Plus, there's the 60 round ammo capacity, which I find useful for shooting down choppers. Something for which it seems quite good at, assuming that I can hit them. Also curious how the ODST armor stacks up against stock armor seeing as I wear that into coop too and it seems to take a fair beating from small arms fire, but I wouldn't call it OP however.
I think weapon balance should stay as it is.
Arma isn't really made for team v team gamemodes like deathmatch, capture the flag or king of the hill.
If they balanced weapons for those gamemodes, single player and co-operative missions would suffer.
your how to get out of a tail spin just saved me and my friends life in a ghost hawk om koth
Haha, the thing is that BI have repeatedly said in the past that, they aren't essentially focused in traditional balance. The game - originally pointed at MilSim ~ "War isn't balanced".
KOTH and other gameplay modes/mods were added additionally - not originally part of the design scope.
~ Also, your ToK test, had them wearing body armor... some of the rounds react different damage and penetration values - the prior in correlation to the latter.
The guy in that window when he was on the tower was me
They already nerfed the AK12 before it was always 1 shotting and had the same penetration of the 7.62x51
it was able to accurately hit a target at long range without and inaccuracy you could literally full auto control the recoil and kill someone 1km away
I really like these type of vids. I just wish you would do it for battlefield 1. You could be like the Jack Frags but more American. Then you could team up with your brother and show us how the guns work in real life compared to the game. I love your work and keep up the good work!
I swear, sometimes BLUFOR just sits in spawn eating paste
A very relevant side advantage to the 7.62 (in this game) is that unlike the 5.56 weapons, it is capable of penetrating the walls of most basic houses. You have to be at a fairly perpendicular angle, but if you see someone duck behind a window or shuffle near a door, and your angle is good, you can simply fire right through the wall at them. It's always really satisfying to correctly predict an enemies location and score a surprise kill this way.
It's also worth noting that the 5.56 suffers more against CSAT soldiers in particular than against other factions. Their light ballistic resistant jumpsuit might not be much in terms of armour, but the lighter the round the larger the percentage of an impact it will bleed off. At range especially, it will really ruin the effect of 5.56 rounds. It's actually the in-game story reason that Nato adopted the 6.5mm as standard, due to 5.56 being "unprepared" for potential engagements with a modern military.
I'm gonna go test now, to see if the 7.62 can still score it's one shot kills when fighting CSAT, or whether the paper-shield jumpsuit is just enough to demand a second bullet.
This aged well
Will you make a video about the abused Zafir and SPMG one shoting rounds at 1km+ ? =)
Drew, are you going to play escape from takerov? seems up your alley.
I love ARMA, like adore it, but Bohemia could really take some cues from their community. ACe is an amazing system that also changes ballistics, things like that.
Now one has to remember that the SPAR 16 is used in jungle, short distances and lightweight (5.56mm) is the way to go there
i didn't know the helmet deflects like that, was wandering why the other day i two tapped a enemy in the head from around 15 meters with a katiba and he didn't die
Drewski can you make a video about the differences between opfor's vest and blufors/indipendents in KOTH??
Because i'm pretty sure opfor's vest are a little bit better than the others factions equip, and i've also noticed several times that opfors can withstand more damage than their enemies.
this is why i take something like the cyrus or at least the mk14 and use it as a battle rifle, 1 shot kills to the chest at up to mid range (not always with mk14 but most of the time) and close range all you need is to be able to flick the gun up and fire once.
plus the ragdoll of high calibre at close range is hilarious
1st thing is, you didnt test with the opfor uniforms which give huge amounts of armour which when worn with the special rig ive found it can take 12+ 5.56 bullets. Being almost 1/2 a mag is a bit nuts
CMR 6.5mm is still my fave gun.
Not having fully auto does't really matter because i never need to fire fast
And i feel the power of the shots along with the range/bullet mussel velocity is sooooo good
With regards to the rounds deflecting off of helmets, one thing about this game is that it is supposed to be set in 2035. I think that it could be reasonable to believe that within the game logic, some body armor has improved dramatically from some of the helmets that are around now. Even today, some of the newer helmets being fielded and developed can deflect or significantly reduce the impact of 5.56mm bullets. Even more so with modern plate carrier vests. It's why the US military is now looking to replace the M4/M16 and 5.56 with a newer rifle that fires a larger bullet.
Great video.
On Arma 3 5.56 is an obsolete round, caliber size does mean everything in pvp based game modes. 1. it assures you that if you have significantly higher ping against someone with lower ping you have a much higher chance at killing them. 2. CSAT fatigues combined with level 4 armor significantly increases how many bullets required to kill. It takes 11 5.56 rounds to the chest at full health. with a 7.62 x 54mm it can even take 4-5 rounds at full health. 3. 5.56 has more velocity dropoff, at a range over 300m against an armored opponent you will find yourself at an extreme disadvantage. Now, the ak12 is a good gun, however the type 115 is superior. 1. The recoil is almost non existent and even manageable to spray at over 400m. 2. It is the fastest fire rate of all 6.5's. 3. It has a 50. cal under barrel, this allows you to shoot through even armored cover to kill people and give fast transition to a very formidable caliber, and 4. it weighs less than 7.62 rifles; this changes factors of sway, recovery from movement, and how much stamina you actually lose when moving short distances. If you are playing a game mode where a majority of your engagements take place at >600m then there is no reason not to use a type 115. at under 150m the 50 cal is very viable and is a definite 1 shot kill, at 200-450m you can easily full auto or burst fire multiple targets, and at 450m-600m+ you can snipe with little to no recoil. That means you have less pause between succeeding shots against distant targets, giving you a fast kill regardless of the smaller caliber.
No armor one shot kill...?! Oh my... That is craaaaazy... :D
having watch until 1:06 maybe server like KOTH could use a mod that balances the weapons and makes them a bit less realistic but more balanced.
My great grandpa had a friend in the Korean War had a 762 round go off his helmet and one run the edges
I personally think that the 5.56 weapons need a bit of a buff to armor penetration as it has a very fast velocity... I wouldn't say make it do more damage per shot but more or less armor pen.
i agree it should be balanced for gameplay over realism. at the end of the day, it should never be a thing in games where it can be said "aim for the legs not the head." headshots are generally harder to pull off and should be rewarded as such. if the same was true of counter strike as an example, would it still be a game by wich people use as a barometer for fps skill in players?
A few things, higher speed projectiles are more likely to bounce at angles, see APCR and HVAP on tanks, also due to how drag works generally heavier bigger projectiles are less effected by drag than high velocity small bullets as they have more inertia and move slower, this is noticeable comparing machine guns to tank cannons. This is also one of the reasons anti tank rifles aren't effective at distance due to drag.
Neat, had no idea about this. Appreciate it!
Gives some context to the sabot rounds in Arma 3. Still haven't found a single reason to pick normal rounds instead of APDS for the GM6 Lynx. It barely drops in comparison
does this apply to similar ak 7.62 rounds?
Got Arma 3 recently (60 hours so far) and have been loving KOTH
13:58 "You can be shooting where the bullet will go right through nothing but... like... butt muscle" xD
Honestly I don't think nerfing the AK-12's damage is the answer. If anything I think they should buff the HK416 to either A. Be a one shot kills to those exposed areas like the AK-12 and or B. Increase that TTK from 8 shots into a vest to perhaps 3-4. The thing that games like Insurgency and Squad have over ARMA 3 is their weapon balance and the fact that they don't sacrifice it for "ultimate realism" although I'm not sure how realistic a 3 shot head shot is with a 5.56 or any gun for that matter.
What game was that WWII game you showed in that clip?
When he gets into combat, it looks like he has a panic attack when he's shooting.
JoshuaGuzz yeh I've mentioned that before I think his sens is much too high
since this is a game high caliber is better but in real life weaker is favored that's why USA, UK ect use 5.56.
shoot some one with 7.62 kill them easier so 1 guy out of combat. shoot some one with 5.56 more likely injured so you take him out of action as well as his buddy's to get him out of there as well as other to land him in to a med vehicle or to get him to cover so the medic/field medic to patch him up. don't get me wrong bullet will kill you but 5.56 is favoured for the fact that it's less likely to kill compared to 7.62 so you injure him instead of kill.
No. The 5.56 was designed to decrease individual round weight and to make full auto fire more practical. It did not compromise lethality in any practical aspects. Please stop perpetuating this myth. This was started by the same army idiots who got American soldiers killed in Vietnam by sabotaging the m16.
So, for KotH, should one get an AKM or an MX SW. Obviously once one reaches the level to get the AK12 you get that one, but before that?
I don't think the AK should be up for debate (in terms of nerfing) until the suppressed SPMG and navid are.
Not accurate testing distance to target was different each time
Irl 5.56 has a crazy pen rate, in other words it should penetrate a helmet with eaze
Bohemia be like "We nerfed the DMG of the AK12 and the Recoil" no, no you didnt^^. And People say the Navid was / is OP ^^
you need to differentiate between different 7.62 calibers. there's at least 2 in ARMA 3 alone. 3 if there's a pkm or SVD or another 7.62x54r gun
Do you have the game difficulty changed or something? I know KOTH is weird but I' surprised because I honestly kill 1 shot to the head (except the Viper special helmet) with SPAR 16 unless I don't actually hit the head but that part of the helmet that doesn't actually have a piece of head behind, either during campaign, user created missions, PvE coop, VA or PvP (mostly play EUTW and coop, I don't really like KOTH but I don't recall having any issues with it the few times I tried it)
Or maybe it was changed? just noticed the video is 1 year old
I literally love the spar and the fact that the ak is overpowered kinda amnoys me.
hi pal could u help me I updated my arma 3 to 64 bit but when ever I try to play king of the hill all the severs have x on them
is this because they don't run in 64 bit or am I doing somthing wrong
thanks
what about the spar 7.62mm variant. I get that that's a marksman rifle compared to an assult rifle. but why us a marksman perk if you can us the AK instaid
they need to add special Ak resistance legs, e.c.t I want to use the Ak 12 punch though Armor and kill not because of toe shot :-)
was the outro song one from "Two steps from hell?
Raphael oh ok thanks man :b
From my experience in Arma 3 KoTH it always seems like the person with the bigger caliber wins the fight. 7.62x39 vs x51 the x51 wins almost everytime, 7.62x51 vs 338, 338 wins, and so on. Even the ASP wins against anything smaller in CQB, even with its low rate of fire. In general the 6.5 is bare minimum I recommend someone use in KoTH.
Looking for someone to play ArmA 3 with including mods like Rangers Marines and USAF and doing scenarios like Mil-Sims would do.
5.56 is not to kill the enemy but to wound the enemy making their team members treat them there for taking one or two enemy shortly out of the fight.
DropTheWorld04 No. The 5.56 was designed to decrease individual round weight and to make full auto fire more practical. It did not compromise lethality in any practical aspects. Please stop perpetuating this myth. This was started by the same army idiots who got American soldiers killed in Vietnam by sabotaging the m16.
Use the 2 round burst on the AK12. It fires faster and I tend to be more successful in CQB with the burst
can you do this but with the navid as well
I heard a long time ago the ak12 was a 5x45mm not a 7x62mm like the regular ak
"Aim for their ass" :DDD
When do you normally play KoTH? I never see you in servers.
i prefer the ak12 as although slow and high recoil- one shot might be all you need- which personally i would rather per bullet TTK vs all together TTK. especially at further ranges where it may be harder to hit shot after shot
can anyone tell me about the many gamemodes in arma ?
i know about koth, altis life and coop missions, but wtf is exile, wasteland...
thanks yet
You ever going to the DFW area to airsoft?
You are pretty lucky compared to me with those enemies, full helicopter are flying 10m above you and enemies most of the time don't aim that well. Are you playing on NO-Navid server?
There should be some statistics in the virtual arsenal for the recoil of a gun too!
A shot in hip bone will disable the target for months, and tighs if hit the bone will do the same too in real life and no one wears armor in in the ass or tighs and i think the game treats being disable and being killed as the same, which in game play porpuses it is
also a shot in the shoulder from the side is almost 100% lethal, you have your heart, lungs, spine, and many important arteries in the bullet trajectory, so a shot in the shoulder from the side should be lethal with any high velocity caliber and even slower ones
if i drank every time you said "I got him"...damn.. i would be druuuuuunk
i prefer the mar10 in koth. usually only takes one shot to kill if you can hit with the lag.
It's hard to aim for some people because they play King of the Hill on 18 frames on all low difficulty lmao. Sucks but I should be upgrading soon.
I hear that man I was getting 15fps in cities and around team mates and shit. I just upgraded and now I get 50-60fps average on fairly high settings. but no mater what its still arma. I get weird graphical glitches, hangups, etc. there is bad desync for me on any server with more than 40ping and that is just about all the hostile takeover and codefour servers. I have to prefire corners coming into towers and take an extra bit of lead to compensate alot
Bit late to this but eh.
I don't think weapon damage should be changed, it's fine as is. What I think needs to be changed in regards to this sort of thing, is HOW the hit box takes that damage.
For example, hit to the head = your dead, your most important part of your body is hit and your now dead. Hit to the main body = large amount of damage, your vital organs have been hit but you may survive. Hit to the hips/crotch/butt = slightly lower damage, it's your hips, you may fall over and be in alot of pain but you wont die from a shot to that area, same for legs and feet.
Obviously this isnt taking into account for a multitude of things that can cause death of hit on those areas but for gameplay purposes, a shot to the foot or leg should not instakill you under any circumstances simply because there is nothing of major importance there to your body's function.
Basically, just change the way hitboxes take the damage received.
they should increase power on the spar
which gun is better if you have bad ping?
Drinking game: Take a shot every time he says "I got him" in the intro
Are the clips in this video pre or post nerf?
Another problem is that not every shot you hit get count... Thats why you can hit enemys 4-5 times with an ak12 an they are still alive... On bad performance server. Not every hit connect and so you cant take the singleplayer hit patter to the multiplayer
that acctually realistic since vests do not cover the palvis and lower bally. getting shot in there by 7.62 will get u down. you will either break the bones allowing u to stand or get massy bleeding in your organs.