I got my "Taylor style" drop in cylinder from Brownell's, decades ago. Absolutely love it. My rather messy cap and ball revolver now shoots nice, clean .45 drop in cartridges. (This can be done because those barrels, any of 'em, generally mike out at about .451.)
I love my Kirst conversion with the loading gate. Took me a while to complete it because I waited a couple of years to get to ejector. Now it’s my favorite firearm and I have a PX Storm .40 cal.
Excellent video. The New Model caught my eye recently, and I had questions about it that this video very neatly explains. It makes my choice much easier. Thanks.
Note that if the cylinder you're using has the same safety notches as the standard cylinder, you can safely load all 6 shots and use one of these notches to rest the hammer between to chambers. Hope this helps
Hi. I was wondering if you knew if it was ok to shoot a 45 ACP FMJ or does it have to be soft lead only. I have a 45 acp Howell conversion cylinder for mine and I've been told that it's fine to use then others say only soft lead. I'd like to know your thoughts on it if you can. Thank you.
fun fact about the remington 1858: those rectangular cuts on the back of the cylinder between the nipples are specifically for the hammer to rest in, allowing you to carry it safely with six shots loaded. you can also see the cut outs on the Howell backplate.
Thanks for a very informative video! At 5:33 you began explaining how the R&D conversion is bored off-center to make room for the 45 Colt cartridge rim, it seems like that would make the bullet hit the forcing cone at an angle possibly causing damage or uneven wear. A simpler solution would have been for R&D to straight bore the cylinder for 45 ACP rounds with the added benefit of less expensive widely available ammunition.
The 45 Colt centerfire was made available in 1873. While the Colt 45 ACP was made available in 1911...where would the historical significance lie since there were conversions available DURING and after 1873 so that Colt could sell all of the overstocked percussion revolver frames and parts? They did an excellent job of staying in business in spite of the Smith and Wesson bullery, as a matter of historical fact :)
In the video I'm shooting 6-shot .45 Colt cylinders with the angled chambers. The 6-shot .44 Colt cylinders have straight chambers. Because they are chambered for .44 calibers cartridges, but the bore is .452", you need either heel based bullets or hollow based bullets. This set up s actually more historically accurate for converted Remingtons.
I have been looking at all the sites that sell the 1858 with conversion and have been trying to figure out if the cylinder was still removable, thanks great video
Hi Mike, the gunsmith at Taylor told me that the early bolt rise with their conversion cylinder is normal and desired to ensure that the cylinder doesn't over-rotate when cocking fast. The short cylinder bolt drag line is only cosmetic since the cylinder is a 100kpsi steel, the drag just leaves a superficial mark in the bluing. The Taylor (R&D) cylinders now have a small cutout at the case head location where a user can see if there is a cartridge loaded. I ordered a 2nd R&D cylinder. Richard
Sorry to hear that. I have three Pietta Taylor's cylinders and I've had no problem with any of mine. Though mine are about 10 years old, so they might have changed their machining processes.
I work at a store that has a Uberti NMA in and I put it on layaway - was really hoping I could swap cylinders a la Pale Rider and shoot percussion if I wanted to, thanks for showing I can't do that! I've been trying to find out for a while now.
Thanks again on great video I priced the pietta (black powder) and the r&d (howell) cylinder and it is still $150.00 cheaper then the factory conversion .And I do want to be able to go back and forth b/p to cartridge and I all so like the "cleaner" look of the r&d ,again thanks very helpful.
I recently ordered me an Uberti 1858 Remington style new model army .44 caliber revolver from Dixie gun works online and a Howell .45 colt cartridge conversion cylinder from midway USA online and received them this past Tuesday. I live in MA. and even in MA. I could get them shipped to my address in Springfield. The conversion cylinder fit perfectly. I made an unboxing video and posted it on my channel. However to get the .45 colt 200 grain cowboy load cartridges I had to drive 275 miles to the cabelas in Hamburg PA. on Thursday. I called ahead on Wednesday afternoon and they was expecting a shipment to come in on Thursday so I took a gamble and rented a car Thursday morning about 10:45 and headed out there. I had spoken to a guy named Bruce in the ammo department and he said to ask for him when I got there. After a 4 and a half hour drive I got there and after asking a few ppl in the firearms department where Bruce was I found him in a group of 3 guys on the floor in cabelas worker’s shirts and he had set aside their last 2 boxes of HSM .45 colt 200 grain cowboy load cartridges for me. I then had a successful ammo run celebration meal at the nearby Cracker Barrel and headed back 275 miles to Springfield MA.
Do you redd up the smokeless powder residue in a cap and ball revolver shooting smokeless cowboy loads in a conversion cylinder with hoppes number 9 like a modern gun? Also should I swab the bore and chambers of the conversion cylinder with some dry patches before loading the cartridges in the conversion cylinder to dry up oil?
@@Matzah1982 I always de-grease new guns, or gun parts with Acetone before shooting, then oil with gun oil, where appropriate. Yes, you can clean with smokeless solvents if you’re shooting smokeless ammo. Boy, I haven’t heard red up in awhile. That’s old school Pennsylvania talk.
I’m originally from Martinsburg WV. so not too far from yinz up yonder in PA. I’ve lived up north in MA. for about 11 years now. Thank you for the advice. I already swabbed the bore and the chambers of both the percussion cylinder and the conversion cylinder and I oiled the bore but then before loading I swabbed the bore with a couple of dry patches and I did the same with the conversion cylinder because oil can seap into the primers over time and turn them into duds
Mr. Beliveau I really appreciate your knowledge of old school firearms. Being new to using cartridge conversion cylinders on Remington style cap and ball revolvers I have a question about oiling. I used to heavily oil cap and ball revolvers after cleaning with both hoppes gun oil and wd40 but now I know with cartridge ammo it’s not good to do that. However I have some gun oil on the cylinder pin of my Uberti Remington style repro with the Howell .45 colt cartridge conversion cylinder in it and I notice a slight film of oil on the plate where the firing pins are and on the back of the cylinder where the rims of the cartridges are but I don’t notice any oil on the cartridges. Will this cause any difficulties with discharge or performance when shooting?
I also prefer the R&D cylinder, but I recommend you go to Taylor's & Co. they bought the patent on the six-shot R&D cylinders. I'd get a 6-shot vs a 5-shot.
Hi Mike, I recently got a Taylor 6rd conversion cylinder to use in my 3 very well timed Pietta Remys. I was disappointed to find that with each revolver the bolt would disengage as the hammer goes forward. The problem is that the depth of the bolt groove in the conversion cylinder is 0.026" while the Pietta cylinder is 0.063". That keeps the bolt from rising high enough for the bolt leg to fully snap over the hammer cam. I found that beveling the bolt leg somewhat fixed the problem.
I like the R&D cylinder the best because you can have several cap and ball as was as cartridge cylinders already loaded on your belt. Not that I would need all that firepower in modern times, but I would definitely keep a second R&D cylinder already loaded.
Again another awesome video I'm looking at a"used" pietta new army today looks very nice and I was looking at the conversion cylinder I like R&D one better (personal preference) .But the one I saw on line 45 colt was 5 shot? It was at Buffalo arms company . Again very helpful.
To continue: The cylinder lockup is now good, but timing with the conversion cylinder is for an early bolt drop. The timing for the Pietta cylinder is still very good, but the Taylor cyl bolt drop is ~3/32" early. A very short cylinder drag line is now visible. Early is safer than late, but not what I expected. I shot .45 Colt (250gr Laser Cast with 4.6gr Trailboss) with good results. It's the first time a BP revolver came home clean! I still need to gunsmith the other 2 1858 for the Taylor.
A little important information to add. ALL of these conversion cylinders, regardless of manufacturers, are safe with non jacketed , smokeless cowboy loads or black powder loads. Do NOT use standard pressure cartridges (45 acp can be used due to low pressure/fps).
aaaaa1957 - I don’t know about this. I do know for 45 acp you can’t shoot out of a long colt. They do have cylinders for 45 acp but I don’t know if they do for black powder.
The R&D cylinder will handle any ammo within SAAMI specs for .45 Colt, however your revolver is not as strong as your cylinder. I have lost sights and cylinder latches firing strong self-defense ammo in Remingtons with conversion cylinders. I mostly stick to black powder cartridges in them, but cowboy loads will present no problems.
If it was me, I'd buy a spare .38 Spl cylinder for the .45 Colt Factory Conversion and have a gunsmith ream it for .45 ACP. I think Alan Harton of the Single Action Service could do this. It probably wouldn't cost anymore than buying a Kirst cylinder.
I noticed in this video as well as other videos of yours (big fan by the way) that your R&D conversion cylinders have the "safety" notches on the back plate just like the black powder cylinder. I recently ordered one and when I got it it didn't have the notches I was wondering if they changed the way they were making them or if you modified yours? Seeing as I've watched many of your videos where you've customized your guns.
So you can leave the Kirst back plate off and insert it in the factory conversion model and it's attached gated back plate will function properly with the Kirst cylinder? Again thanks for the video. I've looked awhile for an explanation of these guns and cylinders and have only found your video which is extremely helpful.
Could you grind it off to eliminate scratching? Also, one thing I've noticed with the Howell's is that the hammer doesn't bottom out on the frame like it does in cap and ball mode. All the energy looks like it is transferred to the primer of the cartridge, which is (I guess) a good thing for the longevity of the frame.
Hi eek, yes it is dangerous to not have the cylinder bolt remain locked during hammer fall. Call Taylor and tell the girl that you need to talk to their gunsmith. 8:30AM is a good time to get him. Tell him about your problem and he will have you send in your bolt for modification. Turnaround is ! one week. Don't shoot the gun until you get the bolt issue fixed. Regards, Richard
Great video....can you please explain why Taylor recommends only firing cowboy loads through these? I've recently purchased a stainless 1858 uberti and considering going for the drop in R&D cylinders but wondering if the cylinder itself isn't strong enough for jacket casings or is it the gun itself?
Elam Gad The Pressures from smokeless powder are way higher than that of Black Powder, if you were to load one of these babies up with normal jacketed ammo it would probably bust the gun. But don't worry the gun can use semi magnum cartridges if they were loaded with black powder.
I'm new to BP and just bought a Uberti 1858 Remington New Army and the Taylor's Conversion Cylinder. I've had a little trouble getting the BP and the Conversion cylinder back in the frame. I noticed on the Uberti that the little hand that turns the cylinder sticks out a bit (by the hammer) and it seems that I have to rotate the cylinder clockwise when putting it in from the right side of the gun. Should this little hand piece be sticking out at all or is this correct? Great Videos! Thanks
When will the patent on the half-degree offset for those 6-shot cylinders expire? I'd like to see a kirst conversion style gated-kit with the full 6-round half degree offset... It would make a TON of sense, as you'd have more room I would think to get the rounds in/out of the chamber easier, as long as you could locate the push-rod properly, no?
Great Video, Thank you! Please correct me if any of the following is inaccurate! I own 2 of the Pietta 1858's and the R&D Conversion cylinders. I heard that you have to use 'Cowboy Action' rounds only and that you should never use jacketed bullets. I can see where a jacketed bullet may tear the rifling out of the softer barrel over time. I have never fired anything hotter than the low velocity (750fps) Cowboy Action rounds with lead bullets. Could these conversions possibly be capable of firing Standard Velocity .45 Colt rounds with lead bullets? If so, what about jacketed bullets if kept to minimal use?
I'm no gunsmith, but I bought a Uberti 1862 4.5 inch police model cap and ball. I then purchased a kirst 22 caliber conversion cylinder. I went to Home depot and purchased a cordless dremel tool and some masking tape and gun bluing from Walmart. I also purchased a small milling vice from harbor freight. Long story short. You can do it yourself. I can't send a picture of my finished work, but it turned out good. Just take your time and make sure the 22 Lc slip in as well as the shorts.
Mike, I just got my Howell conversion and the tolerance is pretty tight. Do you find that the cylinder fits easier the more you use it? Timing seems to be right on though.
I don't care for Pyrodex. If you can get real B-P I'd use that. I prefer the R&D 6-shot cylinders. The angle of the chamber is really not an issue at all.
Also, sorry for the duplicate question, but with the factory cartridge gun, is it possible to modify or adapt some of the parts, if they're even available, to fit a percussion gun? How is it that the "factory gun" can fit six 45 colt cases? is it also using a half-degree offset? or is the cylinder physically larger to accommodate the cartridge rim? I'd be curious to make a design myself and see if I could have a machinist make one up for me... Also, the "true" original with the thing breach plate, it doesn't have a gate? how does it retain the cartridge in the cylinder during recoil? is the cylinder offset enough during lock up that the rim is still blocked, and you need to rotate it a few degrees to unload it?
Munky332 Yes, it is a little bit bigger. As for the gate, when the gun is locked in battery, the cartridges are not aligned with the gate, so they can’t fall out. But, if you pointed the gun straight up, and cocked it, a cartridge would fall out as it rotated by the open area.
my 1858 Pietta reproduction has an issue with the Taylor Conversion cylinder. The conversion cylinder is allowed to free spin when you pull the trigger. Pulling the trigger drops the cylinder catch because the cylinder stop is slightly depressed because the slot in the conversion cylinder is not as deep as the black powder cylinder cut outs. When you pull the trigger the hammer grabs the cylinder stop and drops it allowing the cylinder to free float before the hammer strikes - causing the bullet to not be lined up with the barrel when its fired. I think the solution would be to shave down the cylinder catch just enough to where it is allowed to fully extend with the conversion in place. Either way, the Taylor Conversion is NOT safe to fire out of the box. It could kill you or the person next to you as it shoots lead out of the sides from a free spinning cylinder.
***** I have about half a dozen Taylor conversion cylinders on both Uberti and Pietta guns and never had this problem. I think you should contact Taylor's to get yours replaced.
+PlasmaBurns I had the same problem. The issue is the shallower slots on the cylinder. Because the diameter of a .45 Colt cartridge is greater than that of just a .45x ball, the slots cannot be cut deeper. The solution is a modified bolt that Taylor's will grind for you free of charge if you send in your cylinder stop/ bolt. It's part number 9 for the Remington's in Taylor's parts list and costs $11 if you prefer to have a black powder cylinder bolt and a cartridge conversion bolt. I agree. Taylor's needs to make this more well known because this affects all newly manufactured Pietta's. Older Pietta's had shorter bolt's that didn't affect conversion cylinders in the 58's.
Dick Tickles On mine the grooves didnt even line up. The catch was way off center, all the way to the edge of the groove. I taped off the frame then used a file to take some material off the catch but after a few minutes I realized it was so far off center and tall that after I filed away enough to make the conversion function, it might not catch the black powder cylinder properly so I abandoned the attempt. Now its just a nice demonstration of a poorly engineered product. Good to know my attempt at a fix is what the maker is offering to do. I was on the right track. Thanks for the info.
Sweet thank you awsome pretty revolver so I can purchase that very last gun you showed with that back plate with the screw in it I can have that gun sent thru mail I'm a little confused so it is consider black powder but can slip cartridges in it I'm a little lost 😞 sorry
Thanks for the reply. Would you say there is more barrel wear when shooting FMJ 45? How many rounds of FMJ do you estimate you've put through your Kirst conversion cylinder and what type of ammo / what brand of ammo were they primarily?
On the kurst conversion do i have to drill and tap two or one holes on the frame to 6/32 Allen head to lock ring just like the gated howell arms installation thanks
The original .44 Colt and .44 Remington were essentially the same. They could interchange. .44 American is overall smaller than the .44 Colt, shorter, and smaller in diameter with a smaller diameter bullet, but the .44 American has a much bigger rim than the .44 Colt/Remington. You can load the .44 American into a Remington conversion, but you can only load every other chamber due to the rims overlapping. With the smaller diameter bullet and case, accuracy would be poor and cases may split.
Duelist used a set screw and now Howell offers a drop in kit that is spring loaded to keep the pin in. I think they watch his videos or Duelist submitted the design himself to Howell.
@duelist1954 Just a question, do you think cap and ball is better in anyway over a conversion? And I want to know what you would prefer for just a working around the farm or in my case, a small farm in the middle of the woods :) thanks
+nflsportsman I can't say for certain. Most cylinders are available through VTI gun parts, assuming they have them in stock, which is rarely the case. You'll have to check with them or with Taylor's.
If you're looking to only shoot 45LC, any of the factory versions require an FFL dealer/xfer. The cap and ball version, in a lot of states, doesn't require an FFL dealer/xfer. The conversion cylinders on midwayusa don't require an FFL dealer to order. Feel free to connect the dots...
Any timing issues with the Kirst in either the Uberti or the Pietta? I think I saw one of your videos where you sometimes had to walk a cylinder around, but I don't remember which one.
I got my "Taylor style" drop in cylinder from Brownell's, decades ago. Absolutely love it. My rather messy cap and ball revolver now shoots nice, clean .45 drop in cartridges. (This can be done because those barrels, any of 'em, generally mike out at about .451.)
I love my Kirst conversion with the loading gate. Took me a while to complete it because I waited a couple of years to get to ejector. Now it’s my favorite firearm and I have a PX Storm .40 cal.
Wow what a great video explaining these different cartridge conversions. Thanks.
Excellent video. The New Model caught my eye recently, and I had questions about it that this video very neatly explains. It makes my choice much easier. Thanks.
Note that if the cylinder you're using has the same safety notches as the standard cylinder, you can safely load all 6 shots and use one of these notches to rest the hammer between to chambers. Hope this helps
This comment would've been helpful ...before I shot my damn foot off lol
Kirst makes a .45 ACP conversion. They shoot just fine in the Remingtons.
Hi. I was wondering if you knew if it was ok to shoot a 45 ACP FMJ or does it have to be soft lead only. I have a 45 acp Howell conversion cylinder for mine and I've been told that it's fine to use then others say only soft lead. I'd like to know your thoughts on it if you can. Thank you.
Thanks for the post Mike. I've been contemplating buying a conversion. Your video helped me decide to get one.
The R&D cylinders are proofed for modern, smokeless ammo loaded to SAAMMI standards. You can shoot any non-+P stuff in it.
I have a 3220 revolver how can I get bullets?
fun fact about the remington 1858: those rectangular cuts on the back of the cylinder between the nipples are specifically for the hammer to rest in, allowing you to carry it safely with six shots loaded. you can also see the cut outs on the Howell backplate.
as always great video !!!!
Outstanding video. Very informative while also being entertaining and interesting
This was an awesome video. Very educational and I learned a lot. Thank you very much
Great work Mike, This video answered a lot of questions...
That was a great post. I have a Pietta M1858. Was thinking about conversion but still enjoy the percussion use.
With a small set screw through the flat end of the base pin, bearing on the barrel.
Very interesting and informative thank you for the well made video.
Very good demonstration and tutorials. Thanks
Thanks for a very informative video! At 5:33 you began explaining how the R&D conversion is bored off-center to make room for the 45 Colt cartridge rim, it seems like that would make the bullet hit the forcing cone at an angle possibly causing damage or uneven wear. A simpler solution would have been for R&D to straight bore the cylinder for 45 ACP rounds with the added benefit of less expensive widely available ammunition.
The 45 Colt centerfire was made available in 1873. While the Colt 45 ACP was made available in 1911...where would the historical significance lie since there were conversions available DURING and after 1873 so that Colt could sell all of the overstocked percussion revolver frames and parts? They did an excellent job of staying in business in spite of the Smith and Wesson bullery, as a matter of historical fact :)
I shoot 255 grain bullets in .45 Colt and my guns are very accurate with the conversion cylinders.
Just completed one for a customer. turned out great!
In the video I'm shooting 6-shot .45 Colt cylinders with the angled chambers. The 6-shot .44 Colt cylinders have straight chambers. Because they are chambered for .44 calibers cartridges, but the bore is .452", you need either heel based bullets or hollow based bullets. This set up s actually more historically accurate for converted Remingtons.
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Thank you for all the information and great videos!
I have been looking at all the sites that sell the 1858 with conversion and have been trying to figure out if the cylinder was still removable, thanks great video
I find that you will usually need an ejector. It will work with any factory loaded .45 ACP rounds.
First of all, no brass framed revolver is safe to fire with cartridges...Period.
not even lighter load cartridges?
Is it not just the trigger guard that’s brass here and the frame steel?
Yes the conversion cylinders can handle the pressure of factory smokeless loads
In low dose, under 900 square feet per minute
@@johnjohnon8767 800 to 850 feet per second, not 900 fps and using lead bullets.
Sounds interesting
I'll give it some thought.
Hi Mike, the gunsmith at Taylor told me that the early bolt rise with their conversion cylinder is normal and desired to ensure that the cylinder doesn't over-rotate when cocking fast. The short cylinder bolt drag line is only cosmetic since the cylinder is a 100kpsi steel, the drag just leaves a superficial mark in the bluing.
The Taylor (R&D) cylinders now have a small cutout at the case head location where a user can see if there is a cartridge loaded.
I ordered a 2nd R&D cylinder.
Richard
Great video, thanks for the info. I have a CVA/ASM Remington that I'm going to convert to a cartridge gun for cowboy action shooting.
Sorry to hear that. I have three Pietta Taylor's cylinders and I've had no problem with any of mine. Though mine are about 10 years old, so they might have changed their machining processes.
It was a remove the cylinder deal...still faster than reloading cap & ball.
True, but loading premade combustible cartridges is faster too
I work at a store that has a Uberti NMA in and I put it on layaway - was really hoping I could swap cylinders a la Pale Rider and shoot percussion if I wanted to, thanks for showing I can't do that! I've been trying to find out for a while now.
I have question.......can spare cylinders be purchased for purposes of reloading this weapon, like Clint Eastwood in Pale Rider?
Yes.
Yes but they're held together by the frame of the revolver so you wouldn't have to be careful with how you store them
Yup
Thanks again on great video I priced the pietta (black powder) and the r&d (howell) cylinder and it is still $150.00 cheaper then the factory conversion .And I do want to be able to go back and forth b/p to cartridge and I all so like the "cleaner" look of the r&d ,again thanks very helpful.
It was helpful thanks. I'm looking at Howell as I type this :)
Combined with the comments section, the overview at this link is about as comprehensive as it gets, for a 15 minute TH-cam video. Thank you!
If you want it as a working gun, I'd go the conversion route. There's a reason people stopped using C&B when cartridges came out.
Thanks for the info!
Great video sir! I'm looking forward to getting a Kirst Konverter for a 1851 navy. Aloha
Thanks man, excellent Video
I recently ordered me an Uberti 1858 Remington style new model army .44 caliber revolver from Dixie gun works online and a Howell .45 colt cartridge conversion cylinder from midway USA online and received them this past Tuesday. I live in MA. and even in MA. I could get them shipped to my address in Springfield. The conversion cylinder fit perfectly. I made an unboxing video and posted it on my channel. However to get the .45 colt 200 grain cowboy load cartridges I had to drive 275 miles to the cabelas in Hamburg PA. on Thursday. I called ahead on Wednesday afternoon and they was expecting a shipment to come in on Thursday so I took a gamble and rented a car Thursday morning about 10:45 and headed out there. I had spoken to a guy named Bruce in the ammo department and he said to ask for him when I got there. After a 4 and a half hour drive I got there and after asking a few ppl in the firearms department where Bruce was I found him in a group of 3 guys on the floor in cabelas worker’s shirts and he had set aside their last 2 boxes of HSM .45 colt 200 grain cowboy load cartridges for me. I then had a successful ammo run celebration meal at the nearby Cracker Barrel and headed back 275 miles to Springfield MA.
Wow!
Do you redd up the smokeless powder residue in a cap and ball revolver shooting smokeless cowboy loads in a conversion cylinder with hoppes number 9 like a modern gun? Also should I swab the bore and chambers of the conversion cylinder with some dry patches before loading the cartridges in the conversion cylinder to dry up oil?
@@Matzah1982 I always de-grease new guns, or gun parts with Acetone before shooting, then oil with gun oil, where appropriate. Yes, you can clean with smokeless solvents if you’re shooting smokeless ammo. Boy, I haven’t heard red up in awhile. That’s old school Pennsylvania talk.
I’m originally from Martinsburg WV. so not too far from yinz up yonder in PA. I’ve lived up north in MA. for about 11 years now. Thank you for the advice. I already swabbed the bore and the chambers of both the percussion cylinder and the conversion cylinder and I oiled the bore but then before loading I swabbed the bore with a couple of dry patches and I did the same with the conversion cylinder because oil can seap into the primers over time and turn them into duds
Mr. Beliveau I really appreciate your knowledge of old school firearms. Being new to using cartridge conversion cylinders on Remington style cap and ball revolvers I have a question about oiling. I used to heavily oil cap and ball revolvers after cleaning with both hoppes gun oil and wd40 but now I know with cartridge ammo it’s not good to do that. However I have some gun oil on the cylinder pin of my Uberti Remington style repro with the Howell .45 colt cartridge conversion cylinder in it and I notice a slight film of oil on the plate where the firing pins are and on the back of the cylinder where the rims of the cartridges are but I don’t notice any oil on the cartridges. Will this cause any difficulties with discharge or performance when shooting?
Thank you sir. What a nice video.
I just subscribed.
Great video, very informative.
I also prefer the R&D cylinder, but I recommend you go to Taylor's & Co. they bought the patent on the six-shot R&D cylinders. I'd get a 6-shot vs a 5-shot.
great vid mike
I wish the ruger old army was capable of a "loading gate style drop in conversion" version of the conversion
i have the r&d and your right about the accuracy its unbelievable really for what it is. 100 yard plate shots i can do that with an yother pistol
Very good video thanks Mike.
Hi Mike, I recently got a Taylor 6rd conversion cylinder to use in my 3 very well timed Pietta Remys. I was disappointed to find that with each revolver the bolt would disengage as the hammer goes forward. The problem is that the depth of the bolt groove in the conversion cylinder is 0.026" while the Pietta cylinder is 0.063". That keeps the bolt from rising high enough for the bolt leg to fully snap over the hammer cam. I found that beveling the bolt leg somewhat fixed the problem.
I like the R&D cylinder the best because you can have several cap and ball as was as cartridge cylinders already loaded on your belt. Not that I would need all that firepower in modern times, but I would definitely keep a second R&D cylinder already loaded.
They are a drop-in part, but if you want to load cartridges with the cylinder installed, you need to cut a loading port in the recoil shield
could you do a video on how to cut the frame to fit cartrages and the rebluing
Taylor's will have one on the market in a month or so.
Thank you for a great vid!!
Thanks so much for the comparison. It answered a large number of my questions. :-)
Is there a tutorial video of the required drilling of the loading gate on a Pietta 1858 Remington New Army revolver?
They are all made by the same company; Uberti. Cimarron, or Taylor's & Co carry them I believe. And you could check with Uberti USA
Again another awesome video I'm looking at a"used" pietta new army today looks very nice and I was looking at the conversion cylinder I like R&D one better (personal preference) .But the one I saw on line 45 colt was 5 shot? It was at Buffalo arms company . Again very helpful.
To continue: The cylinder lockup is now good, but timing with the conversion cylinder is for an early bolt drop. The timing for the Pietta cylinder is still very good, but the Taylor cyl bolt drop is ~3/32" early. A very short cylinder drag line is now visible. Early is safer than late, but not what I expected.
I shot .45 Colt (250gr Laser Cast with 4.6gr Trailboss) with good results. It's the first time a BP revolver came home clean!
I still need to gunsmith the other 2 1858 for the Taylor.
A little important information to add. ALL of these conversion cylinders, regardless of manufacturers, are safe with non jacketed , smokeless cowboy loads or black powder loads. Do NOT use standard pressure cartridges (45 acp can be used due to low pressure/fps).
kirk stinson - thank you. I was wondering about what ammunition to use.
So I can use just the regular bulk 45acp ammo?
aaaaa1957 - I don’t know about this. I do know for 45 acp you can’t shoot out of a long colt. They do have cylinders for 45 acp but I don’t know if they do for black powder.
@@aaaaa1957 As long as it is a Lead Bullet and not +P in power.
Sounds like American ingenuity in action. Good luck.
The R&D cylinder will handle any ammo within SAAMI specs for .45 Colt, however your revolver is not as strong as your cylinder. I have lost sights and cylinder latches firing strong self-defense ammo in Remingtons with conversion cylinders. I mostly stick to black powder cartridges in them, but cowboy loads will present no problems.
would you recommend the 45 acp or 45 lc conversion , if so would i be able to use the inexpensive 18 bucks for a box of 50 rounds with it? thanks
Beautiful gun
Very well portrayed.
Any factory ammo is safe to fire in the conversions. Cowboy ammo is often (but not always) loaded to lower velocity than the standard loads.
i have .44 caliber remake ... where would i be able to buy one of these conversions?
taylors and company aslong as the frame is steel
taylors and company is pricey but is the best cylinder and u can get it in the smooth cylinder or fluted
the 44 cal shoots a 454 or 451 round ball it will shoot 45 colt
Most Excellent!
I have a pair of them...I like 'em.
The conversion cylinder just drop in. The full blown Uberti conversions are built for cartridges by the factory.
If it was me, I'd buy a spare .38 Spl cylinder for the .45 Colt Factory Conversion and have a gunsmith ream it for .45 ACP. I think Alan Harton of the Single Action Service could do this. It probably wouldn't cost anymore than buying a Kirst cylinder.
.44 caliber cap and ball guns have .452" bores, so conversions are to .45 Colt cartridge.
I noticed in this video as well as other videos of yours (big fan by the way) that your R&D conversion cylinders have the "safety" notches on the back plate just like the black powder cylinder. I recently ordered one and when I got it it didn't have the notches I was wondering if they changed the way they were making them or if you modified yours? Seeing as I've watched many of your videos where you've customized your guns.
Just to make it easier to get a good grip.
Awesome video. Thsnks !
So you can leave the Kirst back plate off and insert it in the factory conversion model and it's attached gated back plate will function properly with the Kirst cylinder? Again thanks for the video. I've looked awhile for an explanation of these guns and cylinders and have only found your video which is extremely helpful.
Could you grind it off to eliminate scratching?
Also, one thing I've noticed with the Howell's is that the hammer doesn't bottom out on the frame like it does in cap and ball mode. All the energy looks like it is transferred to the primer of the cartridge, which is (I guess) a good thing for the longevity of the frame.
Hi eek, yes it is dangerous to not have the cylinder bolt remain locked during hammer fall. Call Taylor and tell the girl that you need to talk to their gunsmith. 8:30AM is a good time to get him. Tell him about your problem and he will have you send in your bolt for modification. Turnaround is ! one week.
Don't shoot the gun until you get the bolt issue fixed.
Regards,
Richard
Great video....can you please explain why Taylor recommends only firing cowboy loads through these? I've recently purchased a stainless 1858 uberti and considering going for the drop in R&D cylinders but wondering if the cylinder itself isn't strong enough for jacket casings or is it the gun itself?
Elam Gad The Pressures from smokeless powder are way higher than that of Black Powder, if you were to load one of these babies up with normal jacketed ammo it would probably bust the gun.
But don't worry the gun can use semi magnum cartridges if they were loaded with black powder.
I'm new to BP and just bought a Uberti 1858 Remington New Army and the Taylor's Conversion Cylinder. I've had a little trouble getting the BP and the Conversion cylinder back in the frame. I noticed on the Uberti that the little hand that turns the cylinder sticks out a bit (by the hammer) and it seems that I have to rotate the cylinder clockwise when putting it in from the right side of the gun. Should this little hand piece be sticking out at all or is this correct? Great Videos! Thanks
Can you shoot regular smokeless 45lc or do they have to be black powder loads?
Either one works fine, just use cowboy lead bullet loads. Keep the velocity around 800 fps or less.
When will the patent on the half-degree offset for those 6-shot cylinders expire? I'd like to see a kirst conversion style gated-kit with the full 6-round half degree offset... It would make a TON of sense, as you'd have more room I would think to get the rounds in/out of the chamber easier, as long as you could locate the push-rod properly, no?
Great Video, Thank you! Please correct me if any of the following is inaccurate! I own 2 of the Pietta 1858's and the R&D Conversion cylinders. I heard that you have to use 'Cowboy Action' rounds only and that you should never use jacketed bullets. I can see where a jacketed bullet may tear the rifling out of the softer barrel over time. I have never fired anything hotter than the low velocity (750fps) Cowboy Action rounds with lead bullets. Could these conversions possibly be capable of firing Standard Velocity .45 Colt rounds with lead bullets? If so, what about jacketed bullets if kept to minimal use?
Should be fine for any SAMMI non plus P lead ammo.
Are there any instructional videos for milling out the metal for a gated conversion
I'm no gunsmith, but I bought a Uberti 1862 4.5 inch police model cap and ball. I then purchased a kirst 22 caliber conversion cylinder. I went to Home depot and purchased a cordless dremel tool and some masking tape and gun bluing from Walmart. I also purchased a small milling vice from harbor freight. Long story short. You can do it yourself. I can't send a picture of my finished work, but it turned out good. Just take your time and make sure the 22 Lc slip in as well as the shorts.
I wish you would do a video for the 1860 colt like this.
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Mike, I just got my Howell conversion and the tolerance is pretty tight. Do you find that the cylinder fits easier the more you use it? Timing seems to be right on though.
There is no ".45 Long Colt" cartridge. The designation is .45 Colt, regardless of bullet weight.
I don't care for Pyrodex. If you can get real B-P I'd use that. I prefer the R&D 6-shot cylinders. The angle of the chamber is really not an issue at all.
Also, sorry for the duplicate question, but with the factory cartridge gun, is it possible to modify or adapt some of the parts, if they're even available, to fit a percussion gun? How is it that the "factory gun" can fit six 45 colt cases? is it also using a half-degree offset? or is the cylinder physically larger to accommodate the cartridge rim? I'd be curious to make a design myself and see if I could have a machinist make one up for me... Also, the "true" original with the thing breach plate, it doesn't have a gate? how does it retain the cartridge in the cylinder during recoil? is the cylinder offset enough during lock up that the rim is still blocked, and you need to rotate it a few degrees to unload it?
Munky332 Yes, it is a little bit bigger. As for the gate, when the gun is locked in battery, the cartridges are not aligned with the gate, so they can’t fall out. But, if you pointed the gun straight up, and cocked it, a cartridge would fall out as it rotated by the open area.
They offset some of the parts so the parts do not interchange between the BP guns and the cartridge guns. I think the B-ATF made them do this.
my 1858 Pietta reproduction has an issue with the Taylor Conversion cylinder. The conversion cylinder is allowed to free spin when you pull the trigger. Pulling the trigger drops the cylinder catch because the cylinder stop is slightly depressed because the slot in the conversion cylinder is not as deep as the black powder cylinder cut outs. When you pull the trigger the hammer grabs the cylinder stop and drops it allowing the cylinder to free float before the hammer strikes - causing the bullet to not be lined up with the barrel when its fired. I think the solution would be to shave down the cylinder catch just enough to where it is allowed to fully extend with the conversion in place. Either way, the Taylor Conversion is NOT safe to fire out of the box. It could kill you or the person next to you as it shoots lead out of the sides from a free spinning cylinder.
***** I have about half a dozen Taylor conversion cylinders on both Uberti and Pietta guns and never had this problem. I think you should contact Taylor's to get yours replaced.
+PlasmaBurns I had the same problem. The issue is the shallower slots on the cylinder. Because the diameter of a .45 Colt cartridge is greater than that of just a .45x ball, the slots cannot be cut deeper. The solution is a modified bolt that Taylor's will grind for you free of charge if you send in your cylinder stop/ bolt. It's part number 9 for the Remington's in Taylor's parts list and costs $11 if you prefer to have a black powder cylinder bolt and a cartridge conversion bolt.
I agree. Taylor's needs to make this more well known because this affects all newly manufactured Pietta's. Older Pietta's had shorter bolt's that didn't affect conversion cylinders in the 58's.
Dick Tickles
On mine the grooves didnt even line up. The catch was way off center, all the way to the edge of the groove. I taped off the frame then used a file to take some material off the catch but after a few minutes I realized it was so far off center and tall that after I filed away enough to make the conversion function, it might not catch the black powder cylinder properly so I abandoned the attempt. Now its just a nice demonstration of a poorly engineered product. Good to know my attempt at a fix is what the maker is offering to do. I was on the right track. Thanks for the info.
Sweet thank you awsome pretty revolver so I can purchase that very last gun you showed with that back plate with the screw in it I can have that gun sent thru mail I'm a little confused so it is consider black powder but can slip cartridges in it I'm a little lost 😞 sorry
Thanks for the reply. Would you say there is more barrel wear when shooting FMJ 45? How many rounds of FMJ do you estimate you've put through your Kirst conversion cylinder and what type of ammo / what brand of ammo were they primarily?
On the kurst conversion do i have to drill and tap two or one holes on the frame to 6/32 Allen head to lock ring just like the gated howell arms installation thanks
The original .44 Colt and .44 Remington were essentially the same. They could interchange. .44 American is overall smaller than the .44 Colt, shorter, and smaller in diameter with a smaller diameter bullet, but the .44 American has a much bigger rim than the .44 Colt/Remington. You can load the .44 American into a Remington conversion, but you can only load every other chamber due to the rims overlapping. With the smaller diameter bullet and case, accuracy would be poor and cases may split.
Really impressed with the snub nose 1858's.
How did you keep the Cylinder Pin from moving forward with the recoil?
Duelist used a set screw and now Howell offers a drop in kit that is spring loaded to keep the pin in. I think they watch his videos or Duelist submitted the design himself to Howell.
@duelist1954 Just a question, do you think cap and ball is better in anyway over a conversion? And I want to know what you would prefer for just a working around the farm or in my case, a small farm in the middle of the woods :) thanks
Refining my question....can individual cylinders be purchased for the factory conversion weapons?
+nflsportsman I can't say for certain. Most cylinders are available through VTI gun parts, assuming they have them in stock, which is rarely the case. You'll have to check with them or with Taylor's.
If you're looking to only shoot 45LC, any of the factory versions require an FFL dealer/xfer. The cap and ball version, in a lot of states, doesn't require an FFL dealer/xfer. The conversion cylinders on midwayusa don't require an FFL dealer to order. Feel free to connect the dots...
Why, I don't know what you are talking about. Why would you even insinuate such a thing? Do you live in Virginia? Eventus stultorum magister.
Any timing issues with the Kirst in either the Uberti or the Pietta? I think I saw one of your videos where you sometimes had to walk a cylinder around, but I don't remember which one.