This COMPOSITION Tool Eats the RULE of THIRDS for Breakfast!! Landscape Photography
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In this week’s episode, we discuss a composition tool that eats the rule of thirds for breakfast!! I think by this point we're all familiar with the more popular composition techniques for creating powerful landscape photos. We know to use leading lines to draw the viewer into our photos, we know to use layers to create depth in our images and we frame our photographs using the rule of thirds, but are these really the best approaches? Now as far as the first two points go, I'm a big fan of both, but I'm not 100% sold on the rule of thirds as a long term solution for composition.
In this video, I discuss what I think a better compositional technique is for replacing the rule of thirds. I think the rule of thirds has it's place when you're a beginner, but once you become comfortable with applying it to your landscape photos where do you advance from here? One of my favorite aspects of landscape photography is that it cannot be perfected, there's always something you can improve and there's always something new you can learn. I think composition is perhaps the most difficult aspect of landscape photography so whenever there's a new technique that can be applied to improve upon this, I'm all for it!
I hope you enjoy this week's video and are able to get some new composition tips out of it that you can apply to both your on-location and post processing workflow moving forward!
The Golden Spiral:
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Thanks for watching everyone!
-Mark D.
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How often do you use the Rule of Thirds?
every third photo of course
Almost 50 % shots i use rule of thirds 😁
0oTHEJACKo0 Haha! Exactly!
saddam hussain Thats about the amount I used to as well.
I almost always start holding my camera with the subject along one of the thirds lines and then I swing the camera lens around in circles until I see something pleasing and then I set up the tripod.
The ROT and the Golden spiral are based on the same principles originating from art. In most landscape photos it's easy to overlay the spiral in Lightroom and rationalize that it’s working. If the photo is shot with the ROT in mind it’s even more likely the Golden spiral will work. In practical use for landscape photography I find the ROT more convenient as it also helps positioning and leveling the horizon and vertical lines if present in the composition.
My thoughts, exactly. The Golden Spiral rule seems more like twisting facts to suit the theory.
..."rationalize that it’s working". Yes, it seems very contrived. The Emperor's new cloths.
Honestly, I have yet to see an image with the Golden Ratio that makes sense to me - not that it doesn't work! It just doesn't make sense to me. With your images I see how you're lining it up, but the spiral is never the direction my eyes flow across the image - in fact it's usually backwards. It seems to be a bit hokey, and the fact that it 'works' is more to do that the center of the spiral is close to an intersection of the Rule of Thirds.
For the Rule of Thirds, I see it as a way to just divide your composition. I actually didn't know you were 'supposed' to put things on the intersecting lines. I've always just used it to place things into one of the three columns or rows.
With your image of the tree on the coastline as an example (03:58), I see it as the tree belonging to the right 1/3 section (I might pull the right edge to the left a bit more), and the other 2/3 is empty space/ocean. The land mass creates a bit of a leading line pointing out to the empty space that pulls your eyes over, and creates a bit of a story about standing on the edge of emptiness.
That makes more sense to me than a spiral - my eyes never spiral around in the image. I appreciate all your content Mark, it's been a pretty big inspiration and I've learned a lot. Hope this comment doesn't come off as a shot at you 😅
Now, that's how you respectfully disagree!
Yeah, I agree. I don’t think the ROT necessarily means that there has to be a point of interest in one of the intersections (for landscape photography). If your image has a house in the foreground and mountains in the background placing the house in one of the intersections works pretty good, but sometimes you just don’t have that clear point of interest (the house). In the images he’s shown at the beginning of the video I just see the ROT as a way to divide the picture in 1/3 and 2/3, like you said. You chose which of those is sky or ground (or sea/ground/ sea/sky, whatever) depending on what’s more interesting.
There are many situations where the clear point of interest just isn’t there. Maybe in other styles of photography you do have a clear subject separated from the background and you need to place it in one of those intersections (like a bird standing in a branch with a blurry background) but in landscape photography is not the same story.
My eyes did spiral around in the image in the video, but only when the spiral is shown. Without the spiral overlay, not so much.
He is using the spiral as a a leading line which is, at least, a little odd. When I studied the Golden Ratio in art school it was about proportion, how each segment is multiplied by 1.16(...), so as I understand, a photo that REALLY follows the Golden Ratio would have each element not only in the place of the line but with it's proportions changed more or less by this ratio, otherwise I would argue it's just a leading line as any other
The thing is, Mark is not using the golden spiral properly.
I've always felt the rule of thirds and golden spiral are essentially the same thing. Overlay the spiral and a thirds grid and they nearly line up... natural photo elements rarely align perfectly with either, so they are each a good approximation of one another in composition terms. I also think if you try hard enough, you can make almost anything line up with these concepts... I believe people want to find patterns in things more so than true patterns exist.
I'm a newer photographer and serious student of this endeavor. While reading about composition a few months ago, I took the advice offered and made a cardboard 6” X8” cutout to help me visualize framing my photos before setting up the camera. The second thing I did was make a ROT grid overlay from a transparent sheet of plastic for the cardboard cut out and another for my camera screen, so it would always be visible. After watching a webinar on photographing flowers, I added another cutout with the golden ratio affixed to it, of which I still use, and will continue to use until I can visualize it without thought.
Your video drives home what I'm training myself to do, and I am again thankful for your great tutorials Mark.
I think you show here that both the third grid and the golden spiral can be made to fit most if not all your images. This is because you have a developed eye and compose naturally. In essence, when you start out, you need to keep these visual cues in the back of your mind when in the field, but as you grow, they become second nature. I don’t feel the latter eats the former for breakfast though!
Thanks Simon! Yes, I like to think so as well, but every once and awhile I come back from a trip wondering what in the world I was thinking with a particular composition. My biggest fault with regards to composition is probably trying to get overly complicated with it. I've found over the years that my favorite images generally are the ones that are composed in a simple fashion - suppose less is more! Appreciate you checking out the video Simon!
@@MarkDenneyPhoto You're very welcome Mark. I try to watch them as often as I can!
@@MarkDenneyPhoto I also agree that in many cases less is more too!
lol at the start I swear I was thinking "okay... I feel like anything would fit this" and was so glad to see you call that out haha
Hahha! Right👍
I still think this is the case... so I am still searching.
Really glad I came across this ,very useful!
BTW... all your “golden spiral images” also fit into the rule of thirds.
I thought it too
The Rule of Thirds is a simplification of the Golden Mean.
Isnt that exactly the point?! You can say in almost every situation, that its the rule of thirds in landscape photography, but that doesnt mean, that this is enough to make a photo composition beyond just "okay".
@@alexgraefe.photoYT My comment was written because I am not exactly sure what the point is!? A great image is a great image. Out of focus, poor white balance, grainy etc... if you are trying to fit every image into a very specific formula you are missing the point. It's kind of like playing jazz without being willing to improvise.
I believe that those rules exist for a reason. I'm really new to photography and I feel like, thinking about how I could improve the angle I'm taking a photo from, really makes my shots better. Those rules can help with that. That said, I also think that often times I take a photo because I think it just looks "cool" and later find out, that it matches one of those rules and in post production I can crop my image to match it even more. Subconsciously we do a lot of things that just feel right which actually is following a rule of some sort. Not only in photography.
Of course this is just my opinion and as I already said. I'm a photography noob (;
Leading lines is a very good for new photographers when they are just starting out. I taught it to my students last year, they very much appreciated it because it was quite concrete.
Mark, I feel you have done the same with the golden spiral as you did with the rule of thirds. If you compose with the rule of thirds the end of the spiral will nearly always line up with the spiral. I think for beginners rules are essential to provide guidance on what to do. As you train you’re eye to see compositions, you start to compose naturally creating balance, tension, or whatever the subject needs. I also think it’s true that most of these compositions will be able to retrospectively apply a rule if you look for it. I think the point you make people about the spiral creating a sense of visual flow in the image, a natural pathway for the eye to move along is very relevant, and worth exploring more. Strangely I shot a video yesterday where I discuss composition, and touch on rules. Thanks 🙏 for sharing this, has got me thinking a little more about using the spiral to create flow.
This video brings back some memories.
Around the period 2012-2013, I've just joined a photography group back then, and we got involved somehow in a seminar held by the award-winning Iranian-French photographer Reza Deghati. He mentioned something (in answer to some question) which involves how we see things. I can't remember his exact words but he stated that the rule of thirds is actually not "the thing" and it was mainly based on observations by some researchers and scholars who were mainly based in Europe. He said, I remember, that according to his experience, most people in the Orient and Eastern regions, do have a tendency to see things in a way fitting the spiral (he didn't specifically say golden spiral) rather than fitting some intersecting points on a grid. All in all, he didn't really believe in the importance of such guide lines, as far as I remember. I've encountered his viewpoints later on books by other photographers, like Bruce Barnbaum. Barnbaum, I remember, even believed that it is wrong and a mistake to teach art students the law of thirds altogether (or any compositional structure) and to leave things to the instincts.
By the way, the golden spiral or ratio is not 100% fitting in nature as many people think. There is a video on Numberphile channel here on TH-cam that talks about these spirals, and what people typically call golden spiral (which is a structure built around the golden ratio) is not exactly that. But there are other spirals with other metallic names, e.g. silver spiral, bronze spiral, that are built on different ratios than 1.618; and those are MORE common in nature than the golden ratio actually.
I have watched a handful of your videos, I plan to watch more. What I respect the most is that you have liked the positive comments...sometimes where there are hundreds! It shows your taking you're time and energy to read them. Thanks for that. Cheers
Wow, just when I thought your videos couldn't get anymore helpful! I can't wait to go home and try this out on a bunch of my photos I've been wanting to frame.
Great to hear you enjoyed it Adam!
Nice video! I agree...I think images edited using the golden spiral can often look so much better than just following a typical rule of thirds. Great reminder for me to use this feature in lightroom...thanks for the video!
Thanks so much! They definitely seem to have a pleasing flow to them that’s for certain!
Most of the time i used the rule thirds, but i definitely gonna try this golden tip! Thankyou😁
Glad to do it and thanks for checking it out!
Love Fibonacci sequences and spirals. I’m also a day trader and it’s amazing how often fib sequences can predict price movement. Editing to it makes all the difference too!
Thanks Mark! I have been intending to use the golden spiral as a compositional tool in my landscape photos and your video was exactly what I needed to see. Hope you are well and doing ok!
Perfect timing! Hope the video was helpful! I'm doing well and I hope you are too.
I was just playing around with the golden spiral this morning! Funny to find this video. Wonderful tip. ♥️
Perfect timing! Thanks for checking out the video Melissa!
Google is watching you with its AI's and algorithms. Get a VPN.
Been shooting for 10 years and I’m still getting taken to school! Excellent video once again Mark! I’ve been a follower since you were sub 10K subscribers and I learn something new from you every week.
Always appreciate your comments Jared and definitely appreciate all the support as well man - really means a lot!
A very curious and intriguing composition technique. Never really thought about the Golden spiral before. Thank you for explaining me this amazing golden spiral rule to use in my photos!
Happy to do it and hope you enjoyed it!
Just re-edited two of mine from last year, and wow. Huge difference. Thanks!
Thanks again for another inspiring video! I will most definitely try the golden spiral on pics. It has been so easy to stuck to just using the rule of thirds as the main composition rule.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks so much for checking out this weeks video!
I don’t use the rule of thirds too much in landscapes but was never able to clearly visualize the golden spiral when taking a landscape photo. As a result I quit even considering it when composing a photo. Your suggestion of visualizing the rotation of the number “9” was a great idea and I will start using it as a tool in my compositions. I will also go back through some older photos and see if the golden spiral was actually applied.
Maybe one day a camera manufacturer will give us more than the rule of thirds built in - that would make things so much easier if we had the option to change it in camera.
Very interesting subject
I find the photo @10:10 represents the golden spiral perfectly 👏🏻
I use the rule of thirds more often in landscapes, but in woodland way less, especially if im restricted in a way that I don't want to go wide because I don't want to include the sky
I’m glad you think so! Yeah I’ve always found it difficult to accurately use the rule of thirds in woodland scenes.
Really loving the new angles of you photo lair!! It all looks so atmospheric!
Many thanks William! It took me quite awhile to get this dialed in just right!
all this time, i had that golden spiral in lightroom and didn’t know it! Thx for sharing!
Happy to do it!
I think this hits it spot on, especially at 3:52 - I believe the R3ds is an amazing technique for beginners or for people who may find it difficult to compose shots. I'm all over the place when it comes to how I compose images, but I do adhere to the Golden Ratio often, but there's always that R3ds thought in my mind. It's a push/pull situation, often. What happens is a happy medium without even thinking of it. It takes practice. It takes confidence. Anyway, thanks for the video. Also, it's been great following you on IG. Cheers.
Well, Mark, I really did not any additional reason to spend time in front of my computer looking and editing photos. :) Seriously now, thanks for this priceless video focusing on the golden spiral. I especially liked the tip about thinking of the number nine when composing a photo in order to use this tool. Great video, as always! Thanks.
Thanks so much! It's great to hear that you enjoyed it!
Very nice!
I go by my instinct when I compose my photos depending on the story I want to tell with my street photo or if I take environmental portraits/ cityscape photos.
I do recognise that I need to spend more time on the crop tool in lightroom in order to get the most from my photos!
Keep up the good work!
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the ROT is just a simplified version of the golden ratio anyway. So Its not too surprising that images that seem to conform to the ROT will also fit the Golden Ratio.
These are both good tools to help with compisition but I don't think they can ever be the whole story. There will always be images which do not appear to fit either rules that are still great images. Maybe such images are "the exceptions that prove the rule". Which I think actually means "do what feels and looks right - there are no rules"!
Interesting analysis Mark. I spent some time studying the work of a famous landscape artist and found he used four 'rules'; rule of thirds, the golden ratio (aka spiral), triangles (as per LR overlay) and what I came to call 'dropped thirds'. I read a book where he shared some of his process and in the example discussed the painter starts with a 3x3 grid and then sketches the scene to fit that grid. He had the skill to be able to select the most appropriate 'rule' for the scene he was painting. The 'dropped third' is an interesting one and it is effectively the rule of thirds but with half of the bottom third cropped out. Once I had figured it out it was clear to see in many of his pictures that did not quite fit any of the 'normal' rules - his shorelines are often below the lower third line, and it works very well, making more of the mid ground and distant subjects. He clearly developed his own 'style' over time. I also found that in his paintbrush he had the ultimate 'Photoshop' tool; if an island did not sit quite where it looked best, he painted it where it did look best, if the lakeshore was not at its best from his viewpoint he painted a different shoreline. One of my favourite pictures of his was found to be a composite of at least three different views, which all exist, but not in one place. You cannot see the join but it does fit the 'rule' that we find so visually appealing.
Do you have the name of this artist?
W Heaton Cooper
Great video Denny. You gave us a lot of food for thought. I swear that I learn something on every one of you videos.
Thanks so much Alan! Thats music to my ears!
Great style and content Mark 👍 I guess as photographers we 'see' naturally in these compositional guides as we evolve and grow anyway, and also how to break the 'rules'.
I am a total newb to photography, and have been attracted to landscapes, and portrait styles... Thank you for the informative and engaging help videos
It was an amazing Video. Theoretical information with Photos really helps to understand everything thank you so much to make this type of videos...
Thanks so much for checking it out - glad to hear you enjoyed it!
One of the reasons I like going to museums is to see how principles of composition have developed over hundreds of years, in painting.sculpture etc. It’s also interesting to see how modern artists break many of these rules.
Really interesting video Mark. I noticed that the images you showed with the golden spiral also conformed to the rule of thirds as well (except for the last one from the helicopter). I’m going to go through my collection because I feel somewhat locked into either the rule of thirds or the golden ratio, and almost have a way of seeing the world like this now. The golden spiral is definitely not always easy to see in photos, and definitely not in the field, but i think it is a factor which can be seen retrospectively. Again, love your videos. About to watch the one I missed on under editing now. Take care and keep up the great work ❤️
Composition is my favorite subject when it comes to outdoor photography. I tend to push my subject to either right or left, never center. My personal reason is that it challenges me to balance it, I may fail most of the time and end up with large uninteresting blank spaces in my photo, but I am aware of it that means I am learning something. :-)
S133S I’d say that was perfectly said! I feel the exact same way!
Interesting video and worth trying for editing images. The golden spiral as a compositional tool seems to look for patterns for the sake of finding patterns. The eye tends to move in straight lines and sweeping curves when looking at an image, not in a spiral or circular manner. It is interesting that the end zone of the spiral finishes along a rule of thirds line in one direction and it could be a version of the rule of thirds.
The most interesting in the Golden Ratio is that it is a mathematic rules, and it is everywhere around us. This ratio is from the Fibonacci sequence? Absolutely passionating
Just wanted to say thanks for this video. Just had what I thought was a very disappointing day of shooting, especially after reviewing in post, so to prep for my lack of composition skills for tomorrow's adventure, I found this video...after applying the GS, it made what was thought of as bad shooting day into a pretty good one. Cheers!!
Thanks for the incredible video as always!!! Keep up the great work!!! Also do you by any chance host any photography workshops? I have been watching your vids for a long time and I really have learned a lot from them. It would be amazing to learn more from you through an in person photography workshop!
Thanks so much! I really appreciate that. I'll be teaching at both the Out of Acadia and Out of Moab Landscape Photography Conferences this fall - here's more info if you'd like to check that out: www.outofchicago.com/
@@MarkDenneyPhoto Thanks for letting me know!!! I will see if i will be available then!!!
I always love using your tips Mark! Your photography is stunning! Have you tried sharing your photos or making a video on the Dayflash app? I’m using it way more then Instagram now! Hope to see you there 🙌🏻
thank you for all that’s you explaining about avoid the rule of third and focus on the problem in the main point.
I was using the golden spiral a while back and this a great reminder to go back to it. Thanks Mark for the reminder. Time to start using it again.
Glad to do it friend!
Wow, never knew, but glad I stumbled across your site. Thanks so much Mark and gonna go to Square Space. Amazing info! Thank you for sharing your time and info. Subscriber from Florida.
Mark, thank you so much for the useful insights. They are so helpful, especially the option to use the overlay in Lightroom. You have one of the most helpful and interesting TH-cam channels.
Very kind of you to say - thank so much!
Thanks. I learned a lot in this video.
Great info! I found that my eye started closer to the center of the golden spiral and swept out, rather than starting at the outside and sweeping in. Either way, it made the golden spiral easier to understand & visualize.
Thanks so much Jasmine!
If you do have the rule of thirds overlay on your camera you can use that to help with the spiral. Put your interest on one of the intersections, then review the composition to see if it swoops around. Just something I got into the habit of doing shooting macros of flowers and end up applying it to a lot of compositions
I don’t use any rules I just find interesting subjects and then try to find the least distracting way to frame them and then look through the viewfinder and scan the frame from things that don’t feel right. Sometimes I squint my eye a bit so everything just looks like shapes and I guess try to balance shapes and tones.
you said you didn't use any rules then described the rules you use
Camera companies definitely make it easier to abide by RoT's with the grid system baked into the camera, would be cool to see other ratio's included as well. After watching your videos for several months through the pandemic, I’ve been inspired to start my own channel, documenting my progress learning landscape photography. I’m not a novice behind the camera, I’ve been shooting food as a pro for 10+ years, but landscapes is a different animal. Keep up the great content, especially the post processing videos (I find those extremely helpful), you are one of several digital ‘teachers’ I have on TH-cam.
Interesting video Mark.I would be inclined to think that anything shot with the rule of thirds in mind would fit the spiral as well.At least some of the time.The most interesting thing to me was going back through some of my favorite images and seeing them from a different prescriptive.Thanks
Hi Mark, great food for thought. You are absolutely right that photographers are taught the Rule of Thirds and we kinda get stuck with it also because it is on the back of our LCD screens while shooting. I guess it is time for camera manufacturers to also build this Golden Ratio rule into the LCD for more innovation and creativity in the photography process. The images you presented are also quite appealing even if you hadn't put the golden ration grid in Lightroom on it. It goes to show as an evidence that the golden ratio rule is kind of built into our brains as well and that's why if we practice our composition skills as a photographer, we can master it without having the guide on the back of the camera.
Thanks so much! Maybe one day camera manufacturers will give us the ability to change the crop overlay in camera!
I just love your work. Fascinating topic. Thank you.
Thanks so much Starr - really appreciate that!
To me it seems like the images that fit the golden spiral rule also fit rule of thirds.
Mark, I wish I’d found your videos years ago. You are a marvelous teacher. Thanks
Thank you again for verry informative video. It was a good excercise for my eyes too.
Happy to do it Brano! Hope you’re doing well👍
Mark, recently discovered your site, one of the best, thank you.
Merry Christmas to you.
Ayeeeeeee NEW ANGLE🤗
I Love It😌
Thx For The Great Content🙏🏽
Thanks for checking it out Rickey!
Hey Mark!
Awesome video again! As i was watching it i started noticing this golden spiral ratio in your filming composition while you were sitting at your desk... kind of drew my eye from the pictures behind your monitor, down to the keyboard and up to your face which is the main subject of your composition.
I don't know if you intentionally did this or my mind just started applying this pattern on the image i was looking at while you were talking about the same thing 😁.
Keep them good videos coming!
I need to check my photos. Really enjoying this video. I alway try to use the rule of thirds.
Thanks for this I’ve been using Lightroom for years and did not know about using the shift key with the Golden Spiral so I never used it, I watched this video a few days ago and of course I’ve been using it, thanks a bunch!
Exactly my thoguths ! I started using other composition rules because i felt like Rule of thirds fits every photo at a certain point, or completely the other hand, it does not fit what i think the main point of the photo should be. So i only use as a last resort in lightroom, but it comes handy when i`m taking the photos with the actual camera.
Top notch video aa usual! It’s certainly a new way of looking at framing compositions. Bye the way I love the ambient lighting in the background!
Much appreciated Paul! Glad you think so.
Thanks Mark, that's the best explanation of the spiral I've seen. As for the "Rule" of thirds I never deliberately use it although I always have the grid on my camera! I just find my composition and if it happens to fit into thirds so be it. Composition first, ROT second!!
Many thanks Rick - I’m glad to hear you enjoyed it!
Had to go back and look at the wildflower photos I took this afternoon. I'm challenging myself to understand why I prefer some compositions of a group of flowers and not the others. Well, the golden spirals always won out. This video was just what I needed today, thanks!!!!
Glad to hear it Leslie! Thanks for checking it out!
The overlay also works in the crop tool on Photoshop and with similar controls (Shift + 0) to cycle through.
Like as usual.... great great content 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks so much!
This is the best video on TH-cam, Mark!
Very well done 👏.
I like the way how you explain your opinion and I found myself pretty much on it. I'm a graphic designer and I did create fine art using Golden Ratio technique. It's super powerful and gives you a perfect shape.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us and I really enjoyed watching you.
Thanks so much Vilson!
Interesting topic Mark. Thanks for sharing.
Its worth researching more about it and also try to find a relevance between the RoT and the GS, cause the round shape of the GS kinda falls near to any intersection of the RoT.
I'll be doing my own research.
Thanks again Mark.
Glad to do it and thanks for checking it out!
Well, I'm off to play with the golden spiral in LR... thanks Mark for yet another helpful video. Cheers!
The first couple of examples of the ocean and El Cap (or whatever mountain it is) are actually more emblematic of the 20-80 rule. The later photo of El Capitan actually had some slight visual interest leading the eye to the sunset spot on it.
Well explained! Great informations! Thank you! 😊
In addition to your extremely calming voice, very nice video. I will surely try that out on my photos. Keep up the inspiring work ! :)
Many thanks Henry!
Man, this is the best video about photography I have watched In a long time, I usually don't comment on any videos, but jeez I have to on this one, is amazing, thank you so much for this, I am super pumped to try this out on my own work, you bought me with Da Vinci, Picasso story! Cheers! 🙏👋
This is great to hear! Glad you enjoyed it!
,Thanks Mark, I found that very helpful. I will start to use this. I find the rule of thirds useful, but I just seem to have moved to simply looking at an image to see if it was balanced. This will be helpful. Interesting that you say the video was sponsored by Squarespace, but that did not stop an advertisement coming up during the video. Not complaining, just mentioned it. Thanks again.
Quite a subtle concept but beautifully described, thank you Mark. As you say, photography is a continuous learning and progressive process and I admit to having been rather arrested around the rule of thirds for way too long.
Thanks for checking out the video Jim!
I think the golden section it works very well for images like paintings that are already literally constructed to exploit it by setting the format of the frame to perfectly match the golden ratio. Such images contain figures or similar point sources of interest, often cast in relation to others that tend to be expressive in themselves. The information viewers need to extract from the image takes up very little area and the artist uses the golden spiral, and many other techniques, to help the viewer navigate the image. For landscape not so much where there are contrasting features that are not in themselves expressive -- there is no allegorical narrative to decode in nature but that is not to say it cannot be dramatic, powerful and moving, or simply comforting. Check Ruskin and the Sublime.
Thank you so much for this Mark. You made it very easy to understand.
Many thanks - I'm glad you think so!
Thanks for this video, Mark! I had been looking for a golden ratio overlay/plugin for lightroom for ages, who knew it was already there!
Thanks Mark for showing you can just take the photo and choose the rule that fits it best in post...
Glad to do it👍👍
All those rules are tools and we tend to want to try to reach the perfect composition too much.
We should not forget that the final goal is the image not "does it cross perfectly all the lines of the rule... "
A Golden Spiral crop overlay in Lightroom! WHO KNEW? I'm now in the process of going through old images and using this. Great video......again!
I love your presentations and your magnificent photos!
Thanks again for a great video Mark. I have struggled with composition all my photographic life. That is not to say I can't compose my images, I just feel it doesn't come as easy to me as it does to others. I am not sure I agree entirely with your take on the Golden Ratio. I have to be honest is really feel the same way about it as you explained the rule of thirds, you can very much aply to most images if you look hard enough. Like most composition rules, it points to a golden rule. Don't centre important aspects of your image, offsetting something, up, down, left or right works better. Anyway, as always your videos are great, thanks.
As far as I know the rule of thirds is just a simplification of mathematically expressed principles of golden ratio (1:1,61) and Fibonacci sequence (which actually contains golden ratio). If one turns the F. sequence (golden spiral) on the screen, then it can point the same four crossings of horisontal and vertical lines at the distance=1/1,61 from the corner, i.e. golden ratio. Fibonacci introduced his sequence at 1202 AD and the principle of golden ratio was known in India at 200-400 BC.
In my opinion the Fibonacci sequence / golden spiral provides more powerful composition.
THANK YOU MARK! This was the video I was looking for. I'm not a huge fan on the rule of third but didnt know about the golden spiral. I edit mostly in photoshop. Do you know if it has a present on camera raw or in photoshop? Thank you for the tip!😆🙌
Glad to do it Tyler! And, yes there's a golden spiral overlay built in to PS as well!
@@MarkDenneyPhoto When you select the crop tool you can select a golden spiral or golden ration grid
Lots of fun things to think about and terrific information. Great video Mark. 14ish minutes went by in a flash!
Thanks so much!
I really enjoyed this video and do agree with your thoughts!
Changed the background color in the room today?
Thanks for sharing your videos!!
Thanks Thommy! Yep I always like to try different colors
I would still be classified as a beginner and have been using the Rule of Thirds. Interesting concept. Thank you for sharing
Wow thank you for this... great information... Amazing photographers too.
Very interesting!!! - and thanks for bringing this fascinatng concept out into the open. The query I have is that a lot of the pictures where you overlay the spiral don't naturally follow a point of interest or overlap interestng features to where the eye may naturally follow? All the same very grateful to you for bringing this idea out. Definitely food for thought. Thank you :-)
Great video Mark!👌 I never stop learning.. lol..
I havent use "Golden spiral" so much, I find it not easy to see the golden spiral in view finder, but maybe more easy to play with in lightroom when you can show up the spiral lines over the imagines.
But I've been used "Rule of third" and "Golden point" every time since I saw a TH-cam video about "Rule of Third" for couple of month ago, I learned that "Golden point" is not "Rule of thirds..!"
"Rule of thirds" is that when subject is tall and bigger than half of the frame, - if subject is smaller than half of the frame, then it called "Rule of Golden point".
The way to use these 4 point where the Lines of Rule of thirds meets have change the way I shoot my pictures, its more easy to make "leading line" and balance to the image now.😄👌
Hey Mark, I know as you said you wont find any cameras that have the golden ratio built into them, but it would not be to hard to take a clear piece of plastic and trace the golden ratio on top of it, and then you could place that on your LCD screen to get a visual while lining up your shots.
Ahh yes that's a good point!
Awesome advice, will use this from now on. Also learned that the feature is available in Photoshop. I'm subscribing.
Thanks so much!
Nice to see someone understanding and using this method/guideline. there is a camera that has an overlay of this, the Olympus E3, i use one. there may be others.
Great suggestion, thanks. I think the rule of thirds is excellent when there are straight lines in the composition, in all other cases the golden spiral rules !
Glad you think so!
The Golden Spiral sounds like a high priced ice cream. 🤣🍦
Hahah! You're right!
Almost always but started to move away if it doesn’t work 😊 Btw, I love your content, so inspiring. Thank you!