True, rev rate is not needed for high scores. But damn, is it satisfying when a ball with pretty colors spins quickly, and hits the pocket flush. I remember as a kid I was obsessed with getting that insane high rev rate, but always ended up ripping my hand with how much I turned the ball. One coach got me off of that habit, by having me throw it flat off my hand, and now I’m starting to get back on that habit. Recent video my father took I calculated almost 420 rpm, and in a recent tournament, I managed to pull a 299!
You know what sucks is that I ended up tearing a ligament in my wrist due to how much I used to crank the ball around to get the revs. When you throw a 15.5 ball at 20mph average you need so much Rev force to get it reading the lane that there's no way I'm going to be able to keep that going. If I only knew what I know now.
Knowing the oil pattern is also a big factor. The longer or heavier the oil; the faster the ball will travel down lane and later it will read. And by contrast; the shorter or dryer the pattern, the ball slows down faster and reads earlier. Know the pattern and you can adjust your speed or equipment to conquer it
I have a buddy of mine that I have been more or less training for the last year and a half. He has a much lower rev rate (275ish compared to my 525ish) and I notice the issue is that on transition and burn on longer patterns, he runs out of room. move left to get the ball downlane? Now it doesn't turn the corner. Move a couple back right? Through the face. Try to play away from the burn? Too much friction inside and too much oil outside. This leads to him not being able to break 160 or 170 and therefore he cannot make cuts at tournaments
I believe that every bowler has a natural or most comfortable rev rate and ball speed. You shouldn't adjust those unless you have to. You should first try and adjust your position on the lane and your ball break point. He should have moved a couple boards to the right and used the same rev and speed.
@@exesemas I think what he means is that most house shot bowlers that want to get better always think revs is the only thing. Alot of people just see the revs but not speed, hand or pressure adjustments and thats all they think they need to get better.
Brandon Fong agreed. Revs is not the only solution, but usually a change from too much hook, would be to throw it flat. So when the ball isn’t hooking enough to get to the pocket, is to put a little more lift. Or you could move your feet and eyes slightly.
Okay but at a certain point you will need a higher rev rate if you want more carry. Speed and power provide carry. If you keep slowing to match a low rev rate, you'll have a difficult time getting proper carry
Rev rate probably does ensure carry, but isn’t the deciding factor. Throughout my bowling career, I’ve thrown beautiful shots, only to leave a wobbling pin. Just last Friday in league practice, threw my crux from 25 to 5, hooked in to the pocket flush, and left hanging 9s all night.
what should i do if my revs are higher than my speed bc i often have times where my speed looks good but it ends up being too slow and my ball would catch alot sooner
Great video and good information. I started using the Kegel torch and found some little mechanical things in my game which were causing some targeting inconsistencies. I adjusted and got much better matching my speed to get the ball motion I wanted on a specific pattern. I went to nationals and averaged right at 190 and was very happy how I threw the ball, especially considering practice sessions on med flat patterns weren't going so well before the adjustments. My rev rate might be a bit lower now with my "a" release but I'll take that any day over throwing the ball out of bounds or giving away the pocket like I was a few shots a game on tougher patterns. Good luck to both of you and keep up the good videos.
Peter K it is actually pretty easy. Just shorten your approach. That causes you to slow everything down and you will naturally not throw the ball as fast. I move as much as 18" forward and back on the lane to alter ball speed. There are other ways of doing it, but most people I have bowled with find the shorter approach being the easiest. You can also back up from the foul line to get your ball to read the lane a little earlier if you tend to lift the first bit of the lane. I can't do this because I lay the ball down at the line. Dropping your ball position at the start also helps with a lower back swing to slow everything down.
When thrown at a bowler's normal speed, I would think that the more obvious solutions to a ball hitting right of the pocket would be to move right on the approach, or go to a stronger ball.
Exactly, this video doesn't prove that rev's are less important, these guys are just showing a way to adjust how your ball travels, and it isn't even the most efficient adjustment you can make
I think the main point they’re trying to make is that you should work with the natural rev rate you have when you throw with a standard/comfortable release. Trying to “wrench” on the ball to add revs at the line will lead to inconsistency. Brad was just demonstrating that it’s ok to throw slower to get the ball to read correctly if you have a lower rev rate. Obviously if you are throwing your normal shot and it’s coming in weak, you would correct for it with a move on the approach or changing balls, but that’s not relevant in this example.
I think in addition to this, what some may not see or pay attention to whether high or lower rev rate, is what Belmonte and Norm and other modern day greats do to the ball itself. So aside from being accurate, beside from matching up speed to rev rate, they also perfectly manipulate the type of roll for any given condition for carry. Sometimes they are up the back of the ball, sometimes around the side with a lot of tilt. Just saying in general the ability to do all three of these things is what makes some of these guys on tour so great now. It’s the ability to consistently merge all 3 aspects paired with the right equipment that makes them so great.
Spot on. As you know. Del Warren talked about this before junior gold, and presented a chart showing some general speed/rev match ups. Also, a good pro shop operator can help with an appropriate ball surface/layout if you tend to be rev or speed dominant.
I don't understand why you would try to change your ball speed other than that you've run out of room to move. In the example you gave couldn't you have thrown at exactly that speed again, moved right and hit the pocket with more power than dropping speed to hit it. Personally I try to keep my speed as consistent as possible and only adjust my feet and target didn't really get anything from this as to why I should tweak speed too.
Calum Thatcher all they are saying is to match your ball speed to your rev rate. In the example the first ball was too fast in comparison to the revs so that ball wasn't able to read the lane. On the second ball he was a touch softer and the ball was able to read the lane. They aren't saying to make speed adjustments instead of moving your feet
If they weren't trying to say to do this instead of moving your feet they would have specified, they're just pathetically attempting to show that revs aren't that important because they're bitter they can't throw at higher revs so they want to put down the style however they can. The advice in this video to a newer player would kill a lot of their long term improvement because it would take way longer for them to build their muscle memory properly with trying to change their speed all the time.
Chandler Deardorff they aren't saying to change speed all the time. They are simply saying to match your speed to rev rate. As shown with the example. Too fast with too few revs and little reaction. "Slower ball speed to compliment the revs and you see more reaction". Don't throw Belmonte's speed with Norm Duke's rev rate. It's that simple. Quit trying to read into the video.
Great explanation of rev rate and slowing your speed down in order for the ball to work his magic and do what it's supposed to do let the ball do the work. Great job guys keep the videos coming it's making me a better bowler day by day
I try to tell people this all the time! Excellent video! I throw anywhere between 14.5mph and 17mph with a 400rpm rev rate depending on lane conditions. My current house shot is just above a 4:1, 23ml, 43' pattern, and I find myself most accurate from a little inside at a slower 14.5-15mph with a medium hook ball. Another house in my area is very angular on the back end and has lower volume, so I throw 16-17mph there with my weakest ball. If I try to move in, then the shot will over/under with an out of bounds just past the 10 board. Y'all keep up the informative videos!
Stevo Reno it isn't necessarily the speed of the ball, but the speed in relation to the oil and rev rate. Having the ability to change both speed and rev rate consistently is a huge advantage. There are times where I have to grab my weakest ball and just rip the snot out of it down the lane! Those conditions are brutal because it feels more like bootcamp than bowling. I am most comfortable around 15mph and 400rpm. Having to throw it 16.5-17mph and 250ish rpm takes a lot of energy. One league I bowl in has a sharp cutoff on the pattern making for some brutal back end reactions. This forces me to throw it harder.
as a usbc coach - yeah this is totally true. You need the ball to roll up. Now on the shark you're going to have one heck of a time, but keep it slow-leave clusters and make those spares. Strike for the show-spare for the dough.
One thing I have found is to maintain a constant walk, arm swing, release, and ball speed. Ball speed is important when lanes are very oily, especially at the start. However, too many things need to change in order to increase or decrease ball speed. Your walk has to change and your arm swing has to change. These 2 changes take away from the natural flow you are accustomed to. Your walk and your arm swing are the 2 most important parts of bowling. These should always be the same and unchangeable, unless it is a last resort. Ball change is the first change a person should makes when lane conditions are oily or dry, not ball speed. Changing ball does not affect any movement you make, i.e., walk, arm swing, release, ball speed. Ball speed, to me, is the LAST thing you should do because it interrupts your natural movement. Another thing rarely talked about is placement of fingers and thumb position relative to a clock. Spreading fingers decreases the rotation of the ball along with thumb position. Minor changes in fingers and thumb position can affect your line to the pocket without changing ball or ball speed. Practice this and see how your ball reacts and you will be surprised. Breaking your wrist will also affect ball rotation. The average speed is 17 mph and the rpm's is between 200-400. A cranker is 400 and a stroker is 200. Changing wrist position, thumb position and finger placement can place you from 400 to 200. If you can master this, you'll never need to change ball or ball speed. However, a ball does make a difference in carrying pins. I bowled 836 in league and then bowled pot games afterwards. I changed balls and could only shoot 220's and 230's. I could not carry corner pins with a different ball. When I went back to original ball, i shot 828 next 3 games. If you find a ball that carries, then make those minor changes in finger, ball, and thumb position as lane conditions change. If you watch pro's, this is their biggest mistake. They change their line to pocket and move deeper and deeper inside and start to loft the ball and increase ball speed and lose their carry. Yes, they will shoot a occasional big game but at a price because they will leave splits and corner pins. They will shoot 250's and then 190's or 200's.
Randy the Moose, I my opinion nothing needs to change to increase or decrease ball speed. Your arm is a pendulum and a pendulum swings at the same rate regardless of how high or low it swings. For more speed start with the ball high. If you want to slow it down lower the initial swing point. The timing is identical.
Exactly, this video is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to "prove" that rev's aren't all that important, but really it's just pushing lower rev players to change their speed which takes way way longer to improve while doing because you need to build a different muscle memory for each speed
Chandler Deardorff, it doesn't take different muscle memory for different ball speeds. Your arm is a pendulum. If you want more ball speed start the pendulum higher. If you want it slower start the pendulum lower. The timing is the same either way.
@ Flat Out : You are mistaken. Try to time a very small free swing with a very large one. They will not complete in the same time. For the same reason, you are also wrong in advising to hold the ball higher for more speed. Its the opposite. Slow steps, shorter approach, ball higher, for slow speed. The opposite for high speed. The USBC top coaches all confirm this.
@@exesemas , cool. Do what works. I think of it as a pendulum. The swing rate of a pendulum is always the same regardless of how high the pendulum is swings. If the swing is high the rate of speed at the bottom of the swing is higher. I guess I never have to adjust my timing when changing speeds. I just adjust pendulum swing of my arm by starting it higher or lower to alter the ball speed at the release point. I'm a little old school, in my late 40s, and my ball speed ranges from 14 to 16 mph. I also only average around 210 so my advice might not apply to younger more aggressive players. Carry on.
Is it just me or was his spare shot a good three boards left downlane than his first shot? It looked like even if his second shot was the same speed the ball would never have gotten anywhere near as right as his first shot. His point is valid. Miss right either move right or slow up. But if you are going to do a video like this, do enough takes so that the two shots that you throw are at least somewhat similar on the lane.
By my calculation that first throw was 1.9s and in the calculator shows 21mph the second throw shows travel time of 2.25s and in the calculator gives a speed of about 18.15mph.
What if your natural rev rate is a lot higher than the speed you can throw. I struggle to lower my revs without dropping them below half. I have tried for ages to increase speed but not much success
Hi, guys I just wanted you to know I suffer from that high ball speed low rev . I’m also 56 years old how do you recommend I match my rev to my ball speed
Rev rate and speed are mistake allowers...in other words max rev rates with speed allow a bowler to make mistakes. Ball motion is key but if you throw it 25 with revs and touch the head carry is better. It’s been proven for 8 years now with Belmo
I was a cranker, but im going for longevity, I just switched over to stroker style. I don't hurt as much either. Also I wonder how many 2 handers you are going to see on the 50. Im betting zero
As a "come-back" bowler, that hasn't played in over 25 years, getting accustomed to the new equipment and lane conditions is a real struggle, . . . . the key years ago was "Lift", now it's "Rev's", .. . totally different motion, . . . .time to hit the lanes for practice....
I love your videos. You both care about and help so many bowlers ! In the culture of social media your videos foster a bridge between far distance and communication ! In my opinion, revs matter. That's why Belmo was only multiple player of the year in 3 straight seasons and Duke was not. Belmo changed the game, Duke was more of the same.
You guys are just demonstrating common knowledge , Lower speed equals lower pin carry and higher chance of 6 around the ten. Belmonte is good because he can launch the ball with a velocity and hook like no other but also maintain accuracy and transition when needed
I think this all makes sense, but aside from Norm Duke, what player out there right now has low relative rev rates and mainly adjusts speed? In all reality?
Can you do a video on how to slow your ball speed down without changing all your mechanics drastically usually when I try to slow my ball speed down my timing gets off or I will pull the ball
You can slow the ball speed by simply not muscling the ball. Just allow the arms natural swing to supply the force. If you don't initially push the ball out so high in front of you when you start your approach. The back swing won't be so high. Resulting in a lower ball speed.
The debate is over. Two handed bowling will be the future. Its like you are trying to scissor kick your way over the bar, when someone else is using a Fosbury flop. If you want the strike rate, you'll have to take your thumb out of the ball, and hoon it down the lane with all the grace of a docker loading a grain ship.
I get what you guys are saying but you used the wrong icon. Norm could turn a ball when he had to. Be he was a master at reading and adjusting. But good video guys
So, sooner than later, when Duke is no longer a threat to win a major event - how will you try to explain to people that they can be equally successful with anemic rev rates?
If you don’t need revs, why do you throw with revs then ? Kinda counter intuitive don’t ya think? Bowl your next pba tournament straight with a spare ball if you are really about what you preach! I highly doubt it
This video is just a sad attempt to try to say revs aren't important. While high revs isn't the only way to play, it is the most efficient from a physics standpoint, and when mastered will outscore low revs consistently. This video and the sentiment behind it are hurting new players by telling them to try to change their speed just to make themselves feel better about not being able to throw higher revs. You shouldn't try to adjust solely through ball speed for shots, you should be moving. Adjusting ball speed "can" help hit shots, but it requires you to break your muscle memory to do so, while simply moving over 2 boards gets you into the pocket just the same with even better carry and pin action. Just because you can't throw high revs doesn't mean there is no benefit to doing it.
No it doesn't. This video teaches that while rev rates are very important, it should not be the only thing a bowler focuses on. You can have a very high rev rate, but without proper adjustments to other aspects such as speed, launch direction, etc., your high rev rate wont matter. Like bowling speed, it is very important. But if you focus too much on the speed of your ball and not the rev rate, you'll have a harder time hitting the pocket. A perfect balance is required, and that balance is different for each player.
So..if you have low rev rate, you have to throw the ball slow? Amazing. Revolutionary concept. So, throw the ball like the dad in Laneside Reviews, Wayne Porter? Classic "slow speed, low rev rate" bowler. But do we WANT to bowl like that? No. Help us learn how to raise our rev rate so we can throw the ball with speed and power. 98% of the top league bowlers, and the bowlers who win local tournaments, and ofc the best PBA tour pros, all have high rev rates. Telling us to settle for bowling slow balls is like telling the guy with the crappy car to drive real slow so he doesn't lose control. Sound concept, but surely not very helpful.
They have already covered that here: th-cam.com/video/kUCK14g1Zv4/w-d-xo.html Regardless of you rev rate, speed control and accuracy are super important when it comes to being a versitile bowler. In regards to your analogy they aren't telling a guy with crappy car to drive slow so they don't lose control they are telling that guy to find the correct speed for the car they currently have so they can get the best handling it's capable of on the track it's on.
Ironfangzu If you want more rev rates, simply train your wrist and snap your wrist at the release point. Bend your elbow too, practice makes perfect. Still if you have wrist problems don't try this
freakingape thanks man. Working on it. Everything you say is true and helpful to me. I just need to keep practicing and make it happen on the lanes. Your help is appreciated!
Hi,
My name is Fred, and I suffer from low rev rate.
I would love to have any rev rate.
True, rev rate is not needed for high scores. But damn, is it satisfying when a ball with pretty colors spins quickly, and hits the pocket flush.
I remember as a kid I was obsessed with getting that insane high rev rate, but always ended up ripping my hand with how much I turned the ball. One coach got me off of that habit, by having me throw it flat off my hand, and now I’m starting to get back on that habit. Recent video my father took I calculated almost 420 rpm, and in a recent tournament, I managed to pull a 299!
You know what sucks is that I ended up tearing a ligament in my wrist due to how much I used to crank the ball around to get the revs. When you throw a 15.5 ball at 20mph average you need so much Rev force to get it reading the lane that there's no way I'm going to be able to keep that going. If I only knew what I know now.
Knowing the oil pattern is also a big factor. The longer or heavier the oil; the faster the ball will travel down lane and later it will read. And by contrast; the shorter or dryer the pattern, the ball slows down faster and reads earlier. Know the pattern and you can adjust your speed or equipment to conquer it
I have a buddy of mine that I have been more or less training for the last year and a half. He has a much lower rev rate (275ish compared to my 525ish) and I notice the issue is that on transition and burn on longer patterns, he runs out of room. move left to get the ball downlane? Now it doesn't turn the corner. Move a couple back right? Through the face. Try to play away from the burn? Too much friction inside and too much oil outside. This leads to him not being able to break 160 or 170 and therefore he cannot make cuts at tournaments
@@chrisplaysvirtualpiano7668 Sounds like a may need a stronger ball for the longer patterns.
He has a lock but the issue is it just looses energy on longer patterns and dies out due to how beefy it is
interested in a how-to video for increasing speed (for those of us w/ strong hand but slower ball speeds)
I believe that every bowler has a natural or most comfortable rev rate and ball speed. You shouldn't adjust those unless you have to. You should first try and adjust your position on the lane and your ball break point. He should have moved a couple boards to the right and used the same rev and speed.
Preach it guys! Finally, an explanation of what really matters....ball motion.
What do you mean "finally" ? This has been known for decades...
@@exesemas I think what he means is that most house shot bowlers that want to get better always think revs is the only thing. Alot of people just see the revs but not speed, hand or pressure adjustments and thats all they think they need to get better.
Brandon Fong agreed. Revs is not the only solution, but usually a change from too much hook, would be to throw it flat. So when the ball isn’t hooking enough to get to the pocket, is to put a little more lift. Or you could move your feet and eyes slightly.
Okay but at a certain point you will need a higher rev rate if you want more carry. Speed and power provide carry. If you keep slowing to match a low rev rate, you'll have a difficult time getting proper carry
I want to believe. But then I do those hand drills at the foul line throwing a light weight ball at 6 mph and getting strikes.
I actually disagree. A proper angle will strike consistently even at slower speeds. 8mph? Okay no lol. But even 12mph is plenty with the right angle.
Rev rate probably does ensure carry, but isn’t the deciding factor. Throughout my bowling career, I’ve thrown beautiful shots, only to leave a wobbling pin. Just last Friday in league practice, threw my crux from 25 to 5, hooked in to the pocket flush, and left hanging 9s all night.
Excellent point! It's not always about the rev rate, but the harmony of skill and proper ball speed.
what should i do if my revs are higher than my speed bc i often have times where my speed looks good but it ends up being too slow and my ball would catch alot sooner
Great video and good information. I started using the Kegel torch and found some little mechanical things in my game which were causing some targeting inconsistencies. I adjusted and got much better matching my speed to get the ball motion I wanted on a specific pattern. I went to nationals and averaged right at 190 and was very happy how I threw the ball, especially considering practice sessions on med flat patterns weren't going so well before the adjustments. My rev rate might be a bit lower now with my "a" release but I'll take that any day over throwing the ball out of bounds or giving away the pocket like I was a few shots a game on tougher patterns. Good luck to both of you and keep up the good videos.
So, we'll be waiting for your next video on adjusting ball speed while maintaining free swing.
Peter K it is actually pretty easy. Just shorten your approach. That causes you to slow everything down and you will naturally not throw the ball as fast. I move as much as 18" forward and back on the lane to alter ball speed. There are other ways of doing it, but most people I have bowled with find the shorter approach being the easiest.
You can also back up from the foul line to get your ball to read the lane a little earlier if you tend to lift the first bit of the lane. I can't do this because I lay the ball down at the line. Dropping your ball position at the start also helps with a lower back swing to slow everything down.
@@charlieodom9107 nice thought. I always just try to come off my arm speed. Relax the throw somewhat
When thrown at a bowler's normal speed, I would think that the more obvious solutions to a ball hitting right of the pocket would be to move right on the approach, or go to a stronger ball.
Exactly, this video doesn't prove that rev's are less important, these guys are just showing a way to adjust how your ball travels, and it isn't even the most efficient adjustment you can make
I think the main point they’re trying to make is that you should work with the natural rev rate you have when you throw with a standard/comfortable release. Trying to “wrench” on the ball to add revs at the line will lead to inconsistency.
Brad was just demonstrating that it’s ok to throw slower to get the ball to read correctly if you have a lower rev rate. Obviously if you are throwing your normal shot and it’s coming in weak, you would correct for it with a move on the approach or changing balls, but that’s not relevant in this example.
I think in addition to this, what some may not see or pay attention to whether high or lower rev rate, is what Belmonte and Norm and other modern day greats do to the ball itself. So aside from being accurate, beside from matching up speed to rev rate, they also perfectly manipulate the type of roll for any given condition for carry. Sometimes they are up the back of the ball, sometimes around the side with a lot of tilt. Just saying in general the ability to do all three of these things is what makes some of these guys on tour so great now. It’s the ability to consistently merge all 3 aspects paired with the right equipment that makes them so great.
Spot on. As you know. Del Warren talked about this before junior gold, and presented a chart showing some general speed/rev match ups. Also, a good pro shop operator can help with an appropriate ball surface/layout if you tend to be rev or speed dominant.
I don't understand why you would try to change your ball speed other than that you've run out of room to move. In the example you gave couldn't you have thrown at exactly that speed again, moved right and hit the pocket with more power than dropping speed to hit it. Personally I try to keep my speed as consistent as possible and only adjust my feet and target didn't really get anything from this as to why I should tweak speed too.
Calum Thatcher all they are saying is to match your ball speed to your rev rate. In the example the first ball was too fast in comparison to the revs so that ball wasn't able to read the lane. On the second ball he was a touch softer and the ball was able to read the lane. They aren't saying to make speed adjustments instead of moving your feet
If they weren't trying to say to do this instead of moving your feet they would have specified, they're just pathetically attempting to show that revs aren't that important because they're bitter they can't throw at higher revs so they want to put down the style however they can. The advice in this video to a newer player would kill a lot of their long term improvement because it would take way longer for them to build their muscle memory properly with trying to change their speed all the time.
Chandler Deardorff they aren't saying to change speed all the time. They are simply saying to match your speed to rev rate. As shown with the example. Too fast with too few revs and little reaction. "Slower ball speed to compliment the revs and you see more reaction". Don't throw Belmonte's speed with Norm Duke's rev rate. It's that simple. Quit trying to read into the video.
Great explanation of rev rate and slowing your speed down in order for the ball to work his magic and do what it's supposed to do let the ball do the work. Great job guys keep the videos coming it's making me a better bowler day by day
Hi, how do I know if I’m rev dominant or speed dominant or match? Is there any comparative table on that? Thanks.
I try to tell people this all the time! Excellent video!
I throw anywhere between 14.5mph and 17mph with a 400rpm rev rate depending on lane conditions. My current house shot is just above a 4:1, 23ml, 43' pattern, and I find myself most accurate from a little inside at a slower 14.5-15mph with a medium hook ball.
Another house in my area is very angular on the back end and has lower volume, so I throw 16-17mph there with my weakest ball. If I try to move in, then the shot will over/under with an out of bounds just past the 10 board.
Y'all keep up the informative videos!
Stevo Reno it isn't necessarily the speed of the ball, but the speed in relation to the oil and rev rate. Having the ability to change both speed and rev rate consistently is a huge advantage.
There are times where I have to grab my weakest ball and just rip the snot out of it down the lane! Those conditions are brutal because it feels more like bootcamp than bowling. I am most comfortable around 15mph and 400rpm. Having to throw it 16.5-17mph and 250ish rpm takes a lot of energy.
One league I bowl in has a sharp cutoff on the pattern making for some brutal back end reactions. This forces me to throw it harder.
as a usbc coach - yeah this is totally true. You need the ball to roll up. Now on the shark you're going to have one heck of a time, but keep it slow-leave clusters and make those spares. Strike for the show-spare for the dough.
One thing I have found is to maintain a constant walk, arm swing, release, and ball speed. Ball speed is important when lanes are very oily, especially at the start. However, too many things need to change in order to increase or decrease ball speed. Your walk has to change and your arm swing has to change. These 2 changes take away from the natural flow you are accustomed to. Your walk and your arm swing are the 2 most important parts of bowling. These should always be the same and unchangeable, unless it is a last resort. Ball change is the first change a person should makes when lane conditions are oily or dry, not ball speed. Changing ball does not affect any movement you make, i.e., walk, arm swing, release, ball speed. Ball speed, to me, is the LAST thing you should do because it interrupts your natural movement. Another thing rarely talked about is placement of fingers and thumb position relative to a clock. Spreading fingers decreases the rotation of the ball along with thumb position. Minor changes in fingers and thumb position can affect your line to the pocket without changing ball or ball speed. Practice this and see how your ball reacts and you will be surprised. Breaking your wrist will also affect ball rotation. The average speed is 17 mph and the rpm's is between 200-400. A cranker is 400 and a stroker is 200. Changing wrist position, thumb position and finger placement can place you from 400 to 200. If you can master this, you'll never need to change ball or ball speed. However, a ball does make a difference in carrying pins. I bowled 836 in league and then bowled pot games afterwards. I changed balls and could only shoot 220's and 230's. I could not carry corner pins with a different ball. When I went back to original ball, i shot 828 next 3 games. If you find a ball that carries, then make those minor changes in finger, ball, and thumb position as lane conditions change. If you watch pro's, this is their biggest mistake. They change their line to pocket and move deeper and deeper inside and start to loft the ball and increase ball speed and lose their carry. Yes, they will shoot a occasional big game but at a price because they will leave splits and corner pins. They will shoot 250's and then 190's or 200's.
Randy the Moose, I my opinion nothing needs to change to increase or decrease ball speed. Your arm is a pendulum and a pendulum swings at the same rate regardless of how high or low it swings. For more speed start with the ball high. If you want to slow it down lower the initial swing point. The timing is identical.
Exactly, this video is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to "prove" that rev's aren't all that important, but really it's just pushing lower rev players to change their speed which takes way way longer to improve while doing because you need to build a different muscle memory for each speed
Chandler Deardorff, it doesn't take different muscle memory for different ball speeds. Your arm is a pendulum. If you want more ball speed start the pendulum higher. If you want it slower start the pendulum lower. The timing is the same either way.
@ Flat Out : You are mistaken. Try to time a very small free swing with a very large one. They will not complete in the same time. For the same reason, you are also wrong in advising to hold the ball higher for more speed. Its the opposite. Slow steps, shorter approach, ball higher, for slow speed. The opposite for high speed. The USBC top coaches all confirm this.
@@exesemas , cool. Do what works. I think of it as a pendulum. The swing rate of a pendulum is always the same regardless of how high the pendulum is swings. If the swing is high the rate of speed at the bottom of the swing is higher. I guess I never have to adjust my timing when changing speeds. I just adjust pendulum swing of my arm by starting it higher or lower to alter the ball speed at the release point. I'm a little old school, in my late 40s, and my ball speed ranges from 14 to 16 mph. I also only average around 210 so my advice might not apply to younger more aggressive players. Carry on.
Is it just me or was his spare shot a good three boards left downlane than his first shot? It looked like even if his second shot was the same speed the ball would never have gotten anywhere near as right as his first shot. His point is valid. Miss right either move right or slow up. But if you are going to do a video like this, do enough takes so that the two shots that you throw are at least somewhat similar on the lane.
Watch it at 0.25x the two throws are basically identical. I calculated the ball speed at 21mph on the first throw and 18mph on the second throw.
By my calculation that first throw was 1.9s and in the calculator shows 21mph the second throw shows travel time of 2.25s and in the calculator gives a speed of about 18.15mph.
What if your natural rev rate is a lot higher than the speed you can throw. I struggle to lower my revs without dropping them below half. I have tried for ages to increase speed but not much success
Starting to learn this now. How do I know what my rev rate is though? I throw right around 16 mph.
Hi, guys I just wanted you to know I suffer from that high ball speed low rev . I’m also 56 years old how do you recommend I match my rev to my ball speed
Rev rate and speed are mistake allowers...in other words max rev rates with speed allow a bowler to make mistakes. Ball motion is key but if you throw it 25 with revs and touch the head carry is better. It’s been proven for 8 years now with Belmo
I noticed brad used the hustle ink and I was like yessssss
I was a cranker, but im going for longevity, I just switched over to stroker style. I don't hurt as much either. Also I wonder how many 2 handers you are going to see on the 50. Im betting zero
As a "come-back" bowler, that hasn't played in over 25 years, getting accustomed to the new equipment and lane conditions is a real struggle, . . . . the key years ago was "Lift", now it's "Rev's", .. . totally different motion, . . . .time to hit the lanes for practice....
Peter Czekaj lift is what gives the ball more rotation, or revs, so they’re basically the same term.
I love your videos. You both care about and help so many bowlers ! In the culture of social media your videos foster a bridge between far distance and communication ! In my opinion,
revs matter. That's why Belmo was only multiple player of the year in 3 straight seasons and Duke was not. Belmo changed the game, Duke was more of the same.
Is that a hustle ink?
You guys are just demonstrating common knowledge ,
Lower speed equals lower pin carry and higher chance of 6 around the ten.
Belmonte is good because he can launch the ball with a velocity and hook like no other but also maintain accuracy and transition when needed
I think this all makes sense, but aside from Norm Duke, what player out there right now has low relative rev rates and mainly adjusts speed? In all reality?
But what if you have the issue of having a high rev rate with not much speed?
Can you do a video on how to slow your ball speed down without changing all your mechanics drastically usually when I try to slow my ball speed down my timing gets off or I will pull the ball
You can slow the ball speed by simply not muscling the ball. Just allow the arms natural swing to supply the force. If you don't initially push the ball out so high in front of you when you start your approach. The back swing won't be so high. Resulting in a lower ball speed.
you can stand closer to the line initially also hold the ball lower in your stance. less swing = less speed
Thanks guys this actually helps a lot
The debate is over. Two handed bowling will be the future. Its like you are trying to scissor kick your way over the bar, when someone else is using a Fosbury flop. If you want the strike rate, you'll have to take your thumb out of the ball, and hoon it down the lane with all the grace of a docker loading a grain ship.
Thank you. I was chucking the ball wondering why it wouldn't catch
Isn't there like a ratio to aim for?
Think Andrew Andersen also if you want to see, he does this very well for having a decent but not super high rev rate.
Took the ID test thing and found out that I'm matched on my rev and speed. I need to watch my tilt on my ball.
Thanks! Needed that.
Hey guys this is Brent from the Proprietors cup just subscribed
heck ya thanks guys!
I get what you guys are saying but you used the wrong icon. Norm could turn a ball when he had to. Be he was a master at reading and adjusting. But good video guys
WRW, Earl Anthony, and Norm Duke are examples of why revs are less important and accuracy and angles are more important.
3 years in and maniacal about bowling.....old guy, this makes perfect sense. I need to remember it when I am bowling around hi rev guys.
but if you go slower cant you lose pin action
Hi Brad and Kyle you should do a video on tips for junior gold
I have taken out the 6 9 on a full rack have y'all seen that?
This channel is awesome!
But my speed is already low 😢 im trying to be more accurate and stuff before i try anything else too
So, sooner than later, when Duke is no longer a threat to win a major event - how will you try to explain to people that they can be equally successful with anemic rev rates?
This is my problem…..I will use this knowledge this coming Sunday……
Love your vids. But think you missed in this one…. Love you guys!
That’s pretty basic actually. I’ve been doing this for years. You can either adjust your speed or move your position and angle.
I have to remind myself of this all the time because I’m stupid
What is rev?
Love the video 😍
Keep up the great work guys,love all aspects of your videos thank you
Hi, my name is Rev, last name rate. But you can call my Mr. Rev.
You need correct Revs.. and enough Revs.
If you don’t need revs, why do you throw with revs then ? Kinda counter intuitive don’t ya think? Bowl your next pba tournament straight with a spare ball if you are really about what you preach! I highly doubt it
It took me 2 years to figure this out lol!
Lol.. that's why they call me slo-mo
My name is Will and I like to wrench on it. 🙂
I’m really trying to stop 😕
This video is just a sad attempt to try to say revs aren't important. While high revs isn't the only way to play, it is the most efficient from a physics standpoint, and when mastered will outscore low revs consistently. This video and the sentiment behind it are hurting new players by telling them to try to change their speed just to make themselves feel better about not being able to throw higher revs. You shouldn't try to adjust solely through ball speed for shots, you should be moving. Adjusting ball speed "can" help hit shots, but it requires you to break your muscle memory to do so, while simply moving over 2 boards gets you into the pocket just the same with even better carry and pin action.
Just because you can't throw high revs doesn't mean there is no benefit to doing it.
The way you talk I would have thought to find your name on the PBA roster. I couldn't find it.
I saw "debunked" I thought this might be a video about a haunted bowling alley.
You don’t need rev rate I only have like 430
Wait randy is wrong lol
This sounds like common sense to me...
physics
this contradicts your other video about the importance of Revs...Honestly...You are confusing...
No it doesn't. This video teaches that while rev rates are very important, it should not be the only thing a bowler focuses on. You can have a very high rev rate, but without proper adjustments to other aspects such as speed, launch direction, etc., your high rev rate wont matter.
Like bowling speed, it is very important. But if you focus too much on the speed of your ball and not the rev rate, you'll have a harder time hitting the pocket.
A perfect balance is required, and that balance is different for each player.
In 2023 do u still believe this to be true???🤷♂️
You (low revs)....the guy she tells you not to worry about (Belmonte)...
It's a joke...laugh...
So..if you have low rev rate, you have to throw the ball slow? Amazing. Revolutionary concept. So, throw the ball like the dad in Laneside Reviews, Wayne Porter? Classic "slow speed, low rev rate" bowler. But do we WANT to bowl like that? No. Help us learn how to raise our rev rate so we can throw the ball with speed and power. 98% of the top league bowlers, and the bowlers who win local tournaments, and ofc the best PBA tour pros, all have high rev rates. Telling us to settle for bowling slow balls is like telling the guy with the crappy car to drive real slow so he doesn't lose control. Sound concept, but surely not very helpful.
They have already covered that here: th-cam.com/video/kUCK14g1Zv4/w-d-xo.html
Regardless of you rev rate, speed control and accuracy are super important when it comes to being a versitile bowler.
In regards to your analogy they aren't telling a guy with crappy car to drive slow so they don't lose control they are telling that guy to find the correct speed for the car they currently have so they can get the best handling it's capable of on the track it's on.
Someone is mad because they have a 150 rev rate. Lol
Ironfangzu If you want more rev rates, simply train your wrist and snap your wrist at the release point. Bend your elbow too, practice makes perfect. Still if you have wrist problems don't try this
A55EENONTV not even 150, lol
freakingape thanks man. Working on it. Everything you say is true and helpful to me. I just need to keep practicing and make it happen on the lanes. Your help is appreciated!