Mouthpiece Not Sounding Great?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ต.ค. 2023
- Christan explains the importance of checking for gaps with your mouthpiece and leadpipe. It's the crucial first step in developing your sound with equipment.
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Very interesting. This is something that I never heard when I was majoring in music while in college, but it makes sense. It also makes me think that trying to buy a stock mouthpiece where you wouldn't possibly know if it is going to "fit" or not before you buy it could lead to a lot of frustration. I've been playing a Bach 1-1/2 G on a 1970's Bach 50 B2 (independent valves) for years. I haven't kept up my playing, but several things have always been true on the horn: 1) it is difficult to get the notes below the staff to pop in without a lot of work and 2)1st position F below the staff with the F trigger is hard to tune. Outside of that the horn is okay other than it always takes more air than I could ever provide regardless of how big a breath I take. It's probably me and if I practiced more maybe I could overcome some of the difficulties in playing this horn, but it very frustrating so I don't practice.
This makes total sense to me and I saw this demonstrated in a masterclass with Al Baer where a student played on his instrument with his mouthpiece. Attacks were very inconsistent. The gap was measured and another mouthpiece was provided by Alan that fit correctly. It made a huge difference!
Glad you liked the video.
i'm going through this engagement thing right now and I''m tossing in the towel, getting a new horn. I have a Yamaha Xeno 822G. i like the sound and relative ease of playing WHEN on certain mouthpieces. For example the notes especially in the upper register and lower register slot so much better when using a Yamaha mouthpiece. My 58 and 59 slot well, although compared with others I have, I'm not wild about the sound. Also my newest Wedge mouthpieces with the "deeper" shaft for "deeper" receivers slot better, again with not quite the sound of, for example my Markey 85 and 87 or my Greg Black 1 7/16th and my Greg Black 1 3/8. These 4 insert further than the previously mentioned pieces. They slot well enough in the mid range, but require 300% concentration to catch a low E or E-flat with f-trigger. Way too much leeway in pitch. When I switch out for a Wedge or the Yamaha, the accuracy and tone colours are better on these low notes. I tried experimenting wrapping the shanks with teflon tape and that brought some improvement, but ... sporadically it was like the horn stopped playing and it appears that bits of tape would break loose and slop up the main slide - big chunks of teflon goop. This "engagement" problem is well known of the Yamaha 830, 822 and what I've heard the older 620 and 613, 612.
So I'm going to try the new Yamaha 835GD that is supposed to have solved this problem and see how my mouthpieces fit. Will also try the Shire Q series. I'm 71, so am not going to invest in a boutique horn, since I'm now retired from public performance and only play for my own enjoyment.
The first time I've ever heard of the gap is with Harrison of Harrison Trumpets. He supposedly sells inserts to widen that gap.
Do you have anymore videos speaking about this topic?
I play an Arnolds & Sons 3c and I personally think it even sounds better than a Bach 3c!!! Feels more open and sounds warmer too! Anyone have the same experience with this?
I thought the standard mouthpiece taper was 1:20, not 1:17. What is a 1:17 taper called?
Talking about a funny response to a MP, have you heard of a mouthpiece making someone play 20 cents sharp? I have a boutique 1G (not naming names) that does this compared to a Willie’s 007 and Schilke 59 with the horn staying constant (edwards 1239CF, single radius yellow tuning slide, dependent axials, dual bore slide with a yellow crook, and number 2 lead pipe)
So, would the optimal mouthpiece set up be for the shank to go in all the way, or is there a necessity of some gap?
It is different for different people with different mouthpieces. A larger cup/diameter mouthpiece may require a larger gap, where a smaller cup/diameter mouthpiece could benefit with a smaller gap. I always think of it as a balancing act between the mouthpiece volume and the leadpipe gap. Hope this helps answer your question.
Interesting
So, what can be an indication that i need to check it?
Ever since i bought a new horn(shires rs model)a year ago, i can't decide which mouthpiece to use.
I had 3 mouthpieces that were great with my conn 88h, but now it feels like non of those fits well.
Unfortunately i am in Israel, pretty far from the states, or any trombone civilisation;).
So this video made me wonder in that direction.
Add tape to the shank of the mouthpiece (just one piece around) and if the playability improves then the gap is too small. The Shires lead pipes go in quite far and it could be that the gap is too small for you. Your Conn probably had a quite different gap than the Shires lead pipes. It may be that you just need another lead pipe with standard 1" insertion more like your prior instrument.
What is the standard insertion length into a leadpipe?
Standard engagement is 1"