How to put classical moldings into an 8' room. Is it possible?? 3 rules!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- So can you install classical moldings in a 1960's ranch? It's hard but it's possible. Brent uses his own house as an example of 3 ways to still use good moldings in an awkward space. Come check it out.
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My husband is going to be "thrilled" that you've now put a new idea in my head! ...just moved into and renovating an old shotgun house with nothing but 1x6's as door and window frames. I'm wanting a Victorian style ... somewhat. Extra molding to frame doors and windows! How simple!
Glad it helped.
I believe that I was the one who emailed you with the 7 1/2 ft ceilings a few months ago. Thanks so much for this video. It will definitely inform me of my choice of millwork!
Awesome, thanks for the suggestion. Glad to help
Mid 70s colonial with 8' ceilings downstairs (7'6" upstairs), i just tried to size everything to get the appropriate ratios for the room using the greek column as my guide. Wainscoting 26" high, 6" baseboards, casings 4.25" wide, boxed cornice crown molding that extends approximately 5" down the wall and 6" across the ceiling. Obviously not a historical house so I had some design leeway, but I think it turned out ok, a lot better than the builder basic trims it came with. Might have to rethink those crowns when I get around to doing the master bdrm upstairs with those low ceilings.
Yikes, that is about the lowest I've heard of. Good luck.
I hear that- I'm in upstate NY, and a lot of the older farm houses here are 7'6" and even shorter! I just went and looked at a job where the kitchen ceiling is just under 7'... Built in the 1850's you can tell what rooms were the original house and what are addition rooms 🤣 good luck to you 🍻
Would you mind sharing pictures of the space?
Thank you from the land of mid-century modern, full of clamshell door trim. I’ll have to give some thought to how changes will work with our furniture (low and fairly lean).
Super video Brent - short, articulate and packed full of ideas which are especially helpful for your UK viewers. Houses built over here in the last 50 years or so are almost universally small, featureless and sterile. Your explanation of proportion and scale and what works and what doesn’t is so helpful - imo it’s easier to get a smaller room completely wrong than a larger one. Thanks for this, you’ve given me some great ideas and crucially the confidence to change things up without creating some overdone pastiche which is often the result with smaller rooms when people try too hard.
Great, I'm glad it helped. I agree that smaller rooms are harder than larger rooms. Thanks.
In the Uk it is often a case of restoring original mouldings depending on the period of the property and knowing the differences, for example victorian manor houses would often have ornate mouldings and corbels etc yet workers houses of the same period would have straight run victorian cornice, and with regard to colour, white as we know it today did not exist and ceiling were quite often painted an off white colour using distemper. modern houses with open plan rooms and huge windows are a very different style and I'm not sure cornice or ornate moulding work at all in these type of properties, as can look over the top or in the case of the house in the video above can look too small, I guess it's all subjective at the end of the day
Fantastic! Thank you! I am dealing with a very old farm house with 7 foot ceilings.
Good, i hope it helped.
I actually used Bed Moulding as Crown in a 7’-6” ceiling home remodeled and it looked good… everyone that went through liked it…
I also have used in in some lower ceiling basement remodels… bed molding works great in those situations
Thanks! Bed molds work because they are often smaller. I appreciate you sharing.
Great idea you shared. Bringing the crown out on the ceiling more - to lift the ceiling height!
Yes! Thank you!
Looks fantastic, very classy looking. Thank you for sharing 🙏
My pleasure 😊
Terrific review of how to do moldings in a low ceiling space.
Thanks and thanks for watching.
Always good, always interesting.
Glad you think so!
This is a really useful video, Thanks for making it.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
Where was this 12 months ago when I re-did my house and started researching all you teach! Love the classic style!
Haha, thanks I do too.
The Lord said "Let there be light," and Brent Hull appeared with antique pieces of trim in each hand.
Haha
Very helpful to see a practical example like this - hope to see more!
More to come.
Wow just the video I needed! Awesome ideas and really helpful for all of us with 8ft ceilings. Brent you're the man!
Glad it helped. Thanks for watching.
I just bought a 1968 house with 7' 4" ceilings and this talk really helped me. We were considering removing the roof to raise the ceilings to 9'. What you said makes much more sense. Thank you.
Glad to hear it. Thanks.
Absolutely fantastic video! Love seeing your thoughts and suggestions for more modest residences.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.
Nice video and proof homes with 8-foot ceilings are not a bad thing. This home has a lot more character than the contemporary cookie cutter house. We live in a house with 9-foot ceilings on the first and second floors but are seriously considering building a step-ranch home with standard 8-foot ceilings in the foyer, kitchen, and bedrooms. The living room and family room has vaulted ceilings. It's a very unique layout which drew our interest. In any case, I wish more people would make videos like this.
Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers.
Love it, Brent. I was thinking about the smaller room applications for moldings, thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Cobbled together a replica of what I refer to as the Federal Reeded Cornice shown in this video. Now I have something to show my client. Not sure I got all the proportions right. Appears its made using KB324 bed mold, KB172 reeded accent cut in half and two ¾” cove moldings. Look forward to seeing a drawing, short video or list of moldings used to verify my guesses. Love this cornice, one of the best ones you’ve done.
Wow, thanks. You got it.
I'm so glad I found you through Matt Risinger, as you are such a wealth of information! Do you ever do workshops or have an open house at Hull Millworks? I've looked at your books and will be adding them to my collection soon. By the way, I just did a flip on a house that had SEVEN foot ceilings. Did everything we could to deemphasize the ceiling by making sure everything was recessed and definitely stayed away from the crown.
Yes, stay tuned for more events and some exciting news in November. Thanks.
Lovely. Useful. Thanks, Brent!
Glad to hear it. Thx!
Low ceilings are not ideal, but also not an issue for traditional interior moldings. You can go the informal route of New England colonial, which had very low ceilings to preserve heat, to very formal. The Madame du Barry room at Versailles has low ceilings and still looks nice. In that room the French favored a "crown" that was more horizontal on the ceiling than vertical.
Agreed. Thanks for watching.
I am so glad you did this video Brent!! I have a 1957 ranch, in a community of the same house style and pretty much identical floor plans. I have been struggling with figuring out how to change the moldings and have it look good!! Now that I have this video from you, I know what direction I'm going!!
I can hardly wait to get started on the moldings! I hate these much too simple designed ones in my home. Upgrade, he we come!!
Awesome. Good luck.
I had to subscribe due to this video and a few others. Excellent content
Nice to hear. Welcome.
This is a great video, thanks! Very useful for relating your classical and historical molding perspectives to a more modern house. Our late 80s rambler is very similar, with 7'10" ceilings and plain 2 1/4" colonial casing picture framing all the windows and doors, and also used as a baseboard! I'm planning to go for a Craftsman style, but I do like the look of the back bands on your casings.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Sub 8’ ceilings are common in Capes built in late 40’s early 50’s at least in CT. My family is full of 6 footers hitting their heads on ceiling lights😂
LOL.
First of all, I much prefer the look of natural wood for interior door & window casing, baseboards, etc ... the door casing style you show here was quite popular in the 1920's and is fairly simple to replicate...
Ok. thanks.
Fortunately a lot of new construction is moving toward 9 foot ceilings. In my 1960 split, I had a walk-in basement with 7'6" ceilings. When I remodeled it, I raised the ceiling about 3 inches. I ripped the existing joists with a circular saw (and a few other saws), and sistered in a laminated beam. I retained the services of a structural engineer so I wouldn't be sorry, and I was definitely not sorry. The room went from oppressive to nice. I've been very happy with the project, which we now use constantly. Depending on the width of the joists above your space, you might find that raising the ceiling could be an option.
Nice. Thx.
I live in a mid 60's ranch in North Texas with the clam shell molding that I hate. The issue I'm running into is the builder framed the hallway openings where one side of the opening is close to the wall. In fact, in one opening, the opening trim touches the adjacent wall. The only solution I see is relocating the openings to allow space on each side for proper trim.
Yep, happens alot. If you have the room, I'd bump it over. Thx.
Thanks, this was very helpfull for us forced to live with 8' houses. I'd gladly see more vids like this. Maby something on how to use stain grade wood in modern houses?
Good idea. Thanks.
This was super helpful for me.
I'm so glad! Thx.
Excellent info as usual and easy to visualize
Glad it was helpful!
Brent, glad you are talking about this! Scale and proportion are so important. I have always said, sometimes less is more. Don't do something just for the sake of doing it. It has to make sense, and look right. Is there a formula that you go by, for instance when it comes to chair rail or wainscot, or the taller wainscot? Obviously the ceiling height plays the largest role in determining a lot of the moldings, when it comes to the height and size.
No formula, as you said, it depends. I typically try to keep them between 28 and 32" high. Good luck.
@@BrentHull Thanks Brent!
Your videos are amazing.
I appreciate that!
Great video and analysis!!
Appreciate it!
This was my question also!
I love the look of well proportioned crown and more detailed window and door trim. But ..the 8' ceiling is prohibitive as you explained. I think I see a trim piece along those ceilings ( in the hall particularly)...is that still called a crown?
Some doors (closet and entry) are so close to corner of room that a beautiful 4" encasement looks crowded... or doesn't fit. So that limits choices. Then there is the break in the ceiling for opening of stairway...it just stops/ squared off and open all the way up for standard stairwell in the middle of a traditional Cape.
And only 9 to 10 inches from ceiling to top of casings of windows and doors. Now, if I were to do a trim molding around the ceiling, what is the max of depth for aesthectically appealing? And not pulling the height down...
I would agree to make it same color as ceiling (one of those whites...😁)...
Any suggestions?
Love what you do, Brent!
Thanks for addressing this!
I should have a video on crown soon.
Great video Brent! I was trying to scope out your den fireplace to see how you have it trimmed out. I’m in a ranch house and the all brick fireplace feels so heavy in the room.
It's a classical mantle that speaks to our kitchen hood. I think it is one of my old videos.
Another great video.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching.
When you say pick ‘better moldings’, are you talking about the style of the moldings and/or the materials of the moldings & trim? Can you elaborate please ☺️
Style and size of moldings. Moldings that aren't available at the big box stores. Check out Kuiken Classical moldings.
Great video! This will help a lot of us that have lower ceilings.
What have you seen of old New England homes with low ceilings? What do they generally do? I know some are tall ceilings but I've set foot in some 1800s homes that I think had 8 foot ceilings... just don't remember what they did!
It varied, Mostly small crowns if any. Thanks.
I would love to see the after of this house
Ok. Thx.
He makes great points, but check with the 1890’s Queen Ann style- they did not care. They did what ever felt good.
Thanks.
This is some very useful advice! Our downstairs has a 7' high ceiling, which is certainly a challenge (converted from a garage). It's a 1930 Spanish/Monterey Colonial Revival, so at least we don't have to try applying the elegance of a more classical design, but the upstairs is still more refined than I feel we can pull off in such a low space.
I'm curious, what's your opinion on creating a cove ceiling in a shorter room? And do you feel like there should be a minimum amount of space between the top of windows /doors casing and the ceiling? Our door and windows are almost touching the ceiling, and I can't help but feel that going a little shorter with them would give the ceiling more room to breathe, even if it'd be a little less practical.
Thanks for your insight, as always!
A cove can lift the eye, its not my favorite crown, but it does work in that type of space.
Great
Thanks!
Sr. What is the style/name/ cut of the moulding you were holding against the ceiling? Thanks
8010 crown.
Geez - How tall is Brent!!!! 6'-6"?????
haha 6/3
Can you talk about wall paper in power room?
Ok. what do you want me to address?
Damn this was helpful. Thanks for bringing me down to earth.
Nice. Thanks.
🕶🇺🇸thanks Brent
Your welcome.
My house has the room height for classical moldings at 12 feet, but there’s angled ceilings in a couple of areas that bring the wall height down to 8 feet. It’s disappointing to me because I can’t imagine anything other than a very simple molding when my preference is for something more ornate.
Yes, that is very challenging. good luck.
I live in Europe I never seen a house with crown molding over here a part from the historical buildings.Its something that’s really not popular at all, actually people remove it, I’ve seen only Americans using molding in new homes
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
My 1930s cape cod had a single trim used around doors, windows, and as baseboard. This was a Depression era inexpensive house. Nothing about it seemed chosen for artistry. That said, the shutters were operable and the doors were solid four panel real wood. The oak floors were solid, with three inch wide planks many of which were 10' long or longer. So even a modest worker house in the middle of the Depression had details and refinements lacking in today's builder-grade houses.
So true. Thanks.
Our cosy small 1930's cottage has 7' high ceilings (you heard me right!) Guesses are that it was an old fruit pickers shack since remodelers found that the entire house was built out of 1930' plywood with sistered wood ceilings etc. What can we do to create more height? We have a flat roof and not attic so going up is not an option.
Yikes. That is a hard one. Mirrors may help.
Love that crown-entablature. Thinking about it for a 9’ ceiling room. Could you tell us the exact moldings in that Federal built up crown.
Yes, in a future short. Thanks.
@@BrentHull Any idea when you will do the short. Have a job coming up where I want to duplicate that crown. Can’t quite figure out the moldings used.
Contacted Kuiken and the cornice appears to be a modification of the Kuiken Federal Shallow Cornice. Look forward to seeing the exact modifications your team made to create this outstanding Federal Cornice.
Thank you very much for all your videos! If you have an 8' ceiling and wood/shiplap style ceiling, would you still use some molding as you showed?
Sounds interesting. Yes, still would. Thanks.
Hey Brent, what picture rail molding? I've seen it in house in place of crown; looked pretty good.
Picture mold was used a lot at the turn-of-the-century in humble bungalows. It looks and acts like a crown but was also there to hang pictures. I like its scale in humble areas. I think it works!
@@BrentHull Thanks a lot for that lesson Brent.
Brent, Can you tell me the parts you used to create the door casings? Going from inside to outside, I see what looks like a 1/2" reveal, followed by 3-1/2" windsor casing, and then a back band (size?) tacked to the outside of the windsor casing? I have 8' ceilings and similar open doorways in my home and I would like to recreate the casings you've got there. Thank you
Ok, its a beaded casing from Windsor, with a 1 1/2" back band and a GR molding applied. It is the same casing as you see in the windsor catalog under Greek Revival. Thx.
@@BrentHull May I ask what is a GR molding and where is it on your door casing?
How would you go about putting an entablature over a door? Is it possible on 8 foot ceilings to size the entablature appropriately (using those 4-5 inch casings, which represent the architrave, right?) and work? I would think it would literally go up to the ceiling so maybe it's look odd without space above?
However, you showed that room at Winterthur with the entablature that seemed to meet the crown (it had 2 Windows flanking each side). I'll have to look to see how that one was done.
Thanks for the incredible content!
Thanks for watching. The entablature over the door is hard in 8' rooms. I would avoid it if possible. The proportion of moldings is hard. It works at Winterthur well.
Brent, again, great video!
My house is not modern (vernacular gothic revival) but has 8 ft ceilings. The windows are classical (sill at 32 in., golden ratio size (around 5x3), distributed symetrically on the house, etc.) but the top of the window casing is almost touching the ceiling. I am wondering..... Is there a way to kind of merge the crown molding with the top of the window casing or someting?
Sounds challenging. Send me a pic to info@brenthull.com I'll take a look. Thanks!
If the problem is ceiling height and scale, couldn't you just get a smaller crown molding? Is it only sold in one size?
yes, smaller crowns are not everywhere.
What molding is used as crown in these rooms? Is it bed molding as another commenter suggested?
No, a bedmold is a supporting molding. I like a 8012 crown mold in a 8'rm
My ceilings are 9 feet. I would like to have a low depth coffered ceiling with a bit of crown at its base. I wonder if that would work?
With 9' you should be good. I wouldn't go deeper than 4" which means your crown is less than 2" Good luck.
Thank you.@@BrentHull
How do you put moldings in the second story of a 1 1/2 story house (knee walls at 4 ft)? A crown is definitely hard to imagine there.....
No crown in a space like that. FYI.
What size chair rail would you use?
Small 2", maybe less.
@@BrentHull great! Thank you
Brent, I'm not completely clear on your ceiling molding thoughts here. I do understand proper scale being a goal. You showed a possible example of a step towards the end which I believe complimented your doorways, but then suggested not to do that. Instead, you're using more of a clamshell up top, despite noting that's from a different era along with the house ... which doesn't complement the classical elements on the doorways?
Does this mean you intend to change out or delete what you have at the ceiling? It looks nice, but I'm not clear on how ir if it complements the doorways now. The chair rail idea seems good, so is that a future enhancement for this space?
I say all this with the full understanding that oftentimes, a mechanic's car isn't always kept in perfect tune when there are other priorities. :)
Haha, well that is definitely true. I remind my wife that the cobbler's son has no shoes. I apologize for the lack of clarity. I'm really talking out of both sides of my mouth. I think there is a philosophical approach that stays in the mid-century mindset. This would mean no crown. Then there is the classical mindset where crown works. I'm evidently conflicted by both and pulled in each direction. Because the classical system doesn't work as well in an 8' room, I was suggesting 2 options. I hope that helps. Thanks for your question.
@@BrentHull Thank you. Many of us are conflicted (or perhaps more fairly, undecided?) There's always a struggle between design and feature-creep. I look at my 8 foot ceilings and think, wouldn't it be better to have a small crown and chair rails on walls, something that brings depth and space to the original baseboards? Those are 8 1/2" baseboards.
The way they did it here was with wallpaper. (Every inch of this house was covered in wallpaper due to the tongue-and-groove walls and ceilings.) Instead of crowns, they put an extra strip of wallpaper, around the room using a different design pattern on the paper. It looks a little cheesy sometimes, but by 1939 they were surely already asking themselves, "Why are we going broke using 4 1/2" stain grade window casings and doorway trim and 8 1/2" baseboards everywhere?"
Is a coffered ceiling in an 8foot dining room doable?
It would need to be a very shallow coffer. Like. 1" deep. Your implying the coffer more than building a deep one. Good luck.
What is a good base height for 8' ceilings? Using the colonial revival from Windsor. 7 1/4" might be too big
I think 4-6" is the right height. I have 5 1/2". Thanks.
@@BrentHull ok thank you
What is the difference between a crown moulding and what you have here? Is there a different name for it?
Classical name for a built up crown is a cornice. This is crown molding. The top molding of the cornice. Which is also called the Cymation.
Just found out our contractor made a mistake when putting in the concrete ceiling. The ceiling height was supposed to be 10 feet but is now 9 feet :( Can we still do a coffered ceiling?
Yikes! Doubtful, or at least not with as much depth.
@@BrentHull i figured 😔 I’m still in shock. Was really looking forward to having a coffered ceiling finally 🥺 Thanx Brent!
sweet, just spent the better part of my week vacation remolding my 8' midcentury modern colonial with 4 1/2" crown :(.
Oh well. Next time.
does that room have a crown molding already?
It did when we bought it but that was added by a previous owner.
What sheen do you typically paint your trim
Usually Semi-gloss just below hi-gloss. Hi-gloss for exterior trim. Thanks.
@@BrentHull I wasn't the one who asked this question but thank you so much for the semi-gloss recommendation. I had decided on semi-gloss but for trim but now I feel more confident in my choice.
I hate 8ft ceilings, they feel low.....compared to newer open concept homes.
Agreed. Thx.
Brent is that your house?
Yes.
You have a chair right next to you Brent. Chair rails are 32" ...always! They're based on the height of the back of the chair. That's why they're called chair rails. 24" is a joke. Might as well lower the doorways to 6', put in crown moldings and live in a doll house.
Silly suggestion.
Haha. I can only assume your joking. Thanks.