How to Improve the Klipsch RP-600M!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
- In this weeks Tech Talk, Danny Richie from GR-Research shows us how to improve the sound of the Klipsch RP-600M.
+++
www.GR-Research.com
Audiocircle: www.audiocircle.com/index.php... - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
Yes...please go through the entire build process. I want to look at doing this in the future and am a complete novice.
If You'Re a novice get yourself some old devices to practice with
Just wanted to second this, from design to build ( including any tips & tricks, best practices with the enclosure build) is much appreciated - thanks again. This has become my favorite video series ever , right up there with Entourage and GoT ;)
Oh also first time I have intentionally watched the ads and not just the skipped button.
Agreed. I would like to see this as well.
Send these to Sean at Zero Fidelity and Thomas of Thomas and Stereo to get them to A/B and post videos.
@scoobtoober29 I've had many of Danny's designs and he does fantastic work. If you put together one of his kits, you'd get sound that rivals the very best. The N2X kits, in particular, provided me with amazing sound. Wish I had kept a pair, but once upon a time I had to downsize. Simply upgrading parts in a crossover gives you only minor improvements. Changing the crossover design can have a pretty big effect and that's where Danny is one of the very best. It's not always so much that original engineers couldn't have done better themselves, but that they'd have to add additional parts or complexity which made mass production/sale difficult.
Send the crossovers and posts to Stereophile, lol.
lol
Just wanted to say a huge thanks to Ron and Mr. Richie for taking the time to put together the entire playlist of tech talks! I haven't seen anything else like it that's video-based and have been glued to TH-cam since.....
When I first got into the hobby a decade or so ago I didn't think there was any way that DIY gear could compete with "professionally" designed gear because there seems to be this aura of magic or special sauce that goes into the engineering. It's bad enough for loudspeakers but maybe even worse for components. A couple years ago I made the jump into DIY building a set of MWW configuration open baffles and got completely addicted......now everything but my turntable and DAC I've built myself. I don't know how much it would have cost me to achieve this level of sound with purchased gear, even second hand off A'gon.
Sorry for the long post but maybe this will push some people on the fence about DIY to take the plunge. I can't wait to hear more of this series......and keep an eye out for my order for a pair of NX-tremes!
Howdy 👋🏻 did you build your amplifier as well? If so I’m interested in finding out how!
Yes these speakers have some good attributes and are worth the effort to make them sound better. Can't wait to see the upgrade procedure. Subscribed and watched the adds to give support.
Great video series Danny! the klipsch seems like the perfect model to show people how to upgrade since so many have them for their home theatre and they are common at big box stores
Very interesting. Looking forward to the results in due course.
I'm eager to see the actual assembly and installation of these improvements to the RP-600M. (I just got a pair.) Would also like to hear detailed comments on the SOUND after the modifications.
How do you like them,good rock speaker I've hear. How about home theater?
@@ross5506 Why wouldn't they be good for HT? You can use any speakers for HT.
I too have a pair of these speakers and they are perfectly fine as they are. This guy should look at speakers that aren’t as good as these as mine are amazing especially after many hours of running them in. 😉
@@Gadgetdad007 someone sent them in for upgrade
I have the RP 600 and I find your review spot on and accurate , I wish I watched your video before my purchase, all the negative attributes you describe are what I have been observing also on mine
Every speaker has strengths and weakness unless you're willing to pay $1500 for a pair of bookshelf speakers .
My RP600 sound great , buy an equalizer to enhance the mid range . there's no need to tear apart a brand new speaker and rebuild a crossover lol ..seriously.
And they sound near perfect running Vinyl records . They lack in mids a tiny bit with CD or streaming , my EQ easily alleviated this.
Running a Denon DRA-800h 2 channel stereo , Fluance RT-81 turntable and vintage pioneer 30 disk changer , 10 band Yamaha EQ. This is all mid range money equipment for mid range speakers and sounds great.
That's was really cool! Thanks guys can't wait till next week now. I'm going to toss you a high five Ron and you a high-five mr. Richie thanks guys I really appreciate the series that you do hope you have a blessed day and I'm glad glad to see the series gaining traction and picking up views.
love this series..
Looking forward for the assembling part...👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
thanx for your work and education.
Awesome video! Thanks for posting.
can't wait to see the update video on this speaker mod
Just discovered your channel...Great video !! Look forward to the actual mod and listen... Cheers
Sounds interesting, I’ll definitely be watching
Very informative series of videos for Tech Tuesday. Thank you for doing them.
I would like to see a similar video for any possible improvements on the Elac Debut B6.2.
I did one on the original B6 model: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138550.0
Looking forward to seeing the package you will be offering to sell.
Great video!
I reviewed the Klispch RP-160m which has the same crossover as the Klispch RP600m , I always Have to take all my audio apart and actually modify them cheap as i can , and its incredable how much better they sound when you know what your doing, Great job thanks for the video , I watched the commercials also 😆
Tee-Jay The Stereo-Bargin-File they have the exact same crossover?! This upgrade can be done to the 160ms? Cause I’ll be honest I have them and I’m excited!
Yes the 600m uses the same crossover as the 160m. I'm surprised that he didn't mention that in the video,, because soon as he took the 600m crossover out it says 160m on the 600m crossover. Only difference is the 600m has a cooled tweeter, and the 160m sits on an angled plate to stay in phase better when your ears are above the tweeter , his right about getting rid of the cheap brass speaker jumpers ! But this guy is doing a great job helping people out 😆
Tee-Jay The Stereo-Bargin-File thanx!! I ordered the Polk lsim 703 which arrive tomorrow which will give me some time to tinker with the 160!
Can’t wait to listen to those polks and to upgrade my RP-160m’s
@@royrodriguez4779 Hey Roy, Yeah the 160s are fun speakers , but those 703s are on a different level but they are very power hungry , I had to put a high voltage amp to them , Or you can Bi-amp The 703s to help with use with low voltage amps .
Wow, This is no less than amazing! You really took the sharp edge off that Klipsch! Is it only me who noticed a slight dip at 8.5 Khz?
Wish if Klipsch could come out with a retail version of "New Record Day" edition of RP-600M! Would be fantastic of lazy people like me!
Great video, addressing real issues in commercial loudspeakers which are always designed with bean counters requirements in mind rather than with the true potential of the product. Danny's approach to redesigning the x-over is much better then to simply upgrade the parts of the original components. Upgrading x-over components only would most likely degrade the tonal balance of the speaker.
Great video. Given the gushing reviews from audio journalists of these speakers, it is amazing what you’ve been able to do with them out of the box!
Thank you Mr Richie! I am going to buy these speakers and i'm going to use your upgrade kit. I currently own the RB 600 witch I'v been very happy with......until this video. Now I realize that the cabinets are not well braced. Thank you for you're willingness to share you're knowledge.
I used bi wire speaker cables and it improved the sound alot . which surprised me because these speakers sounded really good on single cables.
OUTSTANDING! Once again you have defied convention by giving an honest assessment of a speaker that has had nothing but praise lavished on it since its release. It really begs the question - who are the real audiophiles, the retail slaves, or the DIY crowd? I think I'm beginning to get it. Thanks for another great talk and video.
ujean56 you can always improve on a crossover network regardless of the drivers. I bought a set that I loved for a year hat began to come bright sounded. $1700 speaker and $800 crossover upgrade. Bang for buck I’m sure they might be decent,
Danny you rock! Appreciate the content. Love what you and Ron are doing with these series.
Very much looking forward to your impressions of these speakers after your upgrade. These RP600Ms have certainly gotten much love in the audio press lately and I love the esthetics of them. My hesitation on buying them is “how good can a $500 speaker sound?”. I’m hoping they (in your opinion) can stand up to those costing much more.
I am glad I seen this before getting those speakers. Now the question I face is if I can do this my self...or find someone who can....Look forward to the actual working video of it. Thank you.
More is coming.
I own these speakers and they sound just great!
Now if you want, you can REALLY make them sound great.
Gary, I've got the RP150M, and was considering the 600s. Do you think they're good enough already without upgrading them. Thanks.
richard johnston is you get a good deal then yes. I don’t know the model you own. I came from monitor audio bronze . These were excellent and very analytical. Just missing a little punch. I don’t have a great set-up. Very very happy with the RP-600m
Hey Danny! Sounds like some great tutorial videos coming up. Will be watching them all! I really enjoyed this video, thanks for another great one Danny.
Danny and Ron, what an engrossing video. Have probably looked at a thousand or more TH-cam videos on audio subjects and this was my favourite thus far.
As a long-time fan of tweeking and modding, I know that small changes can make significant benefits in sound. Manufacturers have a price point they have to sell at to stay competitive- that means cutting corners.
If I lived in Texas I'd work for you for free just to absorb all the knowledge you have. Seriously. I think the opportunity to learn from a master is worth more than any dollar amount.
Thanks for this video. You just opened my mind to a new world of speaker awesomeness. I'm very interested in buying your upgrade package for these speakers. After all of the extremely hyped reviews, I have been really disappointed with the 600s.
You have my attention.
👍... Can't wait, Thanks Danny and Ron... Good stuff...
I wanted to test the difference btwn the cheap speaker wire connectors I put on my DIY units VS the Tube Connectors, as I knew the connectors I sued are crap and were, likely, temporary. I reworked how the connectors were implemented... so the banana plug contacts the actual wire going to the xover. Quite frankly, after 2 days, I still can't wrap my head around the change. This was no 'the highs are a little better' kind of change, this was more epic comprehensive change that not only shows up in measurements, but does so in staggering amounts, as in up to 7-8 db change over sustained frequency range... The sound stage went from hints of 3d to more or less holographic. I am, frankly, stunned.
Going from decent binding posts to tube connectors shouldn't change the output levels, but everything else you said is pretty typical.
@@dannyrichie9743 Well, I have super cheap binding posts... this whole thing was an experiment that has kept begging for me to take it further, these super cheap binding posts were just a placeholder if things worked out. Frankly the changes are so comprehensive I still can't wrap my head around it. And is screams at me that there is so much more to be had... and I was stoked 25 major improvements ago...
Great finish to a medium grade build
This moderator is an upgrade over the previous one. This one appears to actually know some things.
Great video! Hope to see more popular speakers being "pimped". Look forward to watching the bulild video with coresponding graphs. One question: Does the damping material afect the vas? The foam seems to be pretty solid
The No Rez does not effect the air space. I'll explain in the next video.
I would like to see these graphs on all the Klipsch Heresy line up. Thank you for this.
Scientific facts for a change instead of opinions.
Really appreciate your videos man. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and honesty
Really nice job. Slick, lol!
I have my parts, time to try to do this. Here I go...
Just for Ron, the twins and all concerned, I stuck with the ads. I trust everybody else to do likewise. 🎿🎿🎿
Thank you for bringing this to our attention 🙏🏽
A detailed video on how to install the tube connectors would be great.
They are super easy to install. See this link: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94014.0
We bought H3’s seven years ago. We love them. We are thinking about adding 600’s and a single SPL100. Opinions appreciated
So I shouldn’t buy these speakers if I have to work on New Speaker then ?
I didn't see a price tag for the upgrade. Also, are you offering to perform the upgrade yourself if we send our speakers to you? Again, how much for that service? thanks!
From the link provided ^^^:
"I am going to offer this as a complete upgrade that address other issues as well. The upgrade will include MUCH higher quality parts than what was used in them originally. I will include high quality internal wire that is four 9's pure solid core Copper with polyethylene coating. The upgrade will include a set of tube connectors, and a sheet of No Rez. The total for everything is $209 plus shipping."
Thanks Danny! You just talked me into soldering my speaker wires direct to the inside! :) I snagged the little R-51M's during last years Black Friday sales for, like, 60 bux a piece so I can hammer and saw these suckers as I please! If you have any advice for upgrading the little guys I'd love to hear it. I'll eventually get those 600M's and grab your upgrade soon after. :)
could you do a video on measuring the two different connectors so we can have objective data?
I just got my 600m today for rears.. I m at work didn't even hear them yet ! But man if I knew how to do this shit I d def do this to mine !
If or when you get more Klipsch speakers of the same model, will you go through the same process again or just build another crossover like the one you used on these speakers? It now has a nearly perfect response. Great work!
Just a quick note: 4 tube replacements allows for bi-amp which I have and halts the bass line feedback distortion of the mid and tweeter. 280 FA's.
I wonder what the new impedance curve looks like compared to the original. Sometimes those notch filters can take the impedance down a bit too low at their resonance frequency.
I came across your video by accident,am surprised you only have 22K subscribers. I came across on eBay 2 ch accuphase A-60 amp. It's under $1000. New yes it's made in China,but it sure looks beautiful and the transistors are Japanese. Have a look tell me if it's high end amp. It's a class A to 40 watts then AB 200 @ 8 ohm's. Great video I've subscribed.
We've only been doing these for a few months. Subscribers were few at first but climbing fast. Thanks for joining.
Can you please do a video on how to improve the new KLIPSCH Reference R820F ? Thanks.
Only if someone send one in, and I feel it to be worth doing a video of.
Can't wait to try this! I also have 4 RP 500m for surrounds and the RP 500C for my center. Will this work for those as well?
Different speakers require the process starts over.
No problem! I just found you and I'm always open to learning more about speakers. Speaking of speakers, I have a pair of silver Flute 6.5" 4 ohm woofers that I was going to put in my car. But once the factory woofers broke in I doubt it will make much of a difference. So I am looking for something to do with them. They're very inexpensive for the quality and might make an interesting build for someone's first time build. Someone like me?
Where can you get the tube connectors?
Tube Connectors: gr-research.com/electracabletubeconnectors.aspx
Wow. Sign me up for a kit with components, norez and a wire schema for my of RP-600M!
Were is the check out button?! @Danny Richie
Hey Danny.Thanks for showing my little Infinity Infintesimal Speaker. I own the Klipsch speakers ,so when you send my little speakers back, I will be sure and order the crossover components and No rez. Would adding some simple internal bracing help?
Can't wait to get my little Infinities back.
I don't think those little metal cabinets need any bracing. You might be able to lay in a few thin strips of No Rez to help damp it. I'll throw in a few scrap pieces for you to try. These are going to sound a lot better when you get the new crossovers installed.
@@dannyrichie9743 i meeant putting bracing in the Klipsch. I'm sending over the matching center channel to you.
I love this series! I'd like to see if there can be any affordable improvements on the Micca MB42X's crossovers or drivers. So many people have those and they're cheap enough to experiment on without worrying about damaging them.
TH-cam is great. Set up platform and let others make money for them as the others earn a little bit. 😂
Great video. Love it! Can’t wait to see how the network is reworked. TQ for all your effort.
Now we just need a tutorial haha. I have the 600s and the 160ms and would love to give them an upgrade since I can't afford new speakers right now
michigan1777 I have the 160s, do you notice any major differences compared to the 600s? Go Blue!
@@williammiller6353 the 600s are smoother and less shouty as compared to the 160s. Other than that there isn't much of a difference. I paired the 600s and the 160s in me home theater and they sound excellent together
michigan1777 thanks for the feedback!
@@williammiller6353 you're welcome!
Hello Danny, could you deliver the crossover mod package to an european country? Thank you for the video!
Thank You So Much!
Sound great.. can't wait to see the next part II. Would be great to get detailed informations how to do it. Greetings from Germany.. 😁🙏
Can you do a video on the tube connector for the old JBL L100 Century. Also a new crossover or an upgrade? Many of these JBL 100 are still around!
i wanna hear and test results on these tube connectors and even the upgraded parts because this is interesting can i hear a difference on youtube?
I just found your channel. Great video!! I have no experience with building speakers but I'm very excited to give it a try. I have the predecessor to this speaker the rp 160m will this tutorial work on my speaker?.. with the same results? I dont know how different they are other than the newer model has a vented tweeter. I like forward to watching all your videos. Thanks!!
The same things that I did to this one could be done to that one, but the crossovers values will be different.
I’m really enjoying your series Danny, Thanks. I have a pair of the rp600m and am looking forward to your next video. I liked your description of the mills resistor over the cast style. What’s your opinion of the Mundorf brand, besides being 3 times more expensive?
Marc
Some of the Mundorf caps are quite good in the right application. For speaker applications I still prefer the performance advantage and value of the Sonicaps as my go to caps. They do a lot really well without adding their own sound.
Thanks for the reply Danny. I was wondering actually about the Mundorf resistors, compared to the Mills, not their caps...
@@marcl8814 I have not had a chance to A/B those two brands.
Awesome! Thank you for the video
Amazing work, aka crossover king ;)
Thanks for the good video.
The high-end measurements were done with grilles on? Other measurements have shown a small flattening in the curve just from them being there.
All measurements were made with the grills off.
Danny is truly one of the good guys in the industry. As hard as it is for some to believe, the binding post do make a significant difference, I learned that many years ago when I bought my 1st pair of Eichmann RCA connectors & that was compared to Cardas, not junk..
Awesome. i have a pair but benched it for now.. and interesting on the binding posts. I typically bi-wire and use Blue Jeans cables with spades on both ends lightly torqued with a wrench.
Bi-wiring can often cause the speaker cable to become a big T type antenna, and it can increase RFI and EMI reception. You can get much better sound with a single good quality cable.
Danny Richie interesting point, I was previously running a single cable but switched to bi-wire when I changed amps from 350 to 450w. I was using a single 12ga monster and now I am using Blue Jeans cables which are BTO with two Canare 4S11 Speaker Cable (quad star) two cables per side. The spades are ultrasonically welded to pairs of conductors for about 8ga effective per pair (4x14ga). It’s extremely reasonable vs esoteric brands of cables which can cost 10x more. Looking forward to the xover rebuild video.
@@mpitogo The twisting or braiding of the cables will cancel out RFI and EMI. Try adding a good quality jumper across the binding post and really listen with or without it in there (Bi-wire versus not bi-wired) and I bet it will sound the same.
Danny Richie you’re probably right. I won’t be able to tell. Aesthetically it just looks nice :)
I want to buy a pair with the work already done. Is that possible?
I want! They need it! Keep me posted🤙🤙
The man knows and believes his stuff. That is all to that.
Concerning the crossover dip...in stock form...how about just flipping the speaker upside down?
that does not fix the frequency dip
Is there any way to buy a tweaked set for the RP600M? Preferably in Europe or at least with shipping to Europe?
When is the kit is going to be available? how much and where can I purchase it?😀
Try emailing Danny, info@gr-research.com
Yes, please post the kit link in the description.
Hey, do you have an improvement for the Elac 6.2 Debut 2.0 speaker? I'm glad I found your channel.
This is the only Elac model that I have been into so far: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138550.0
I am VERY interested in this speaker rebuild! 💥💥 subscribed 😃
Thanks Danny, Have just purchased a pair would be interested in doing the upgrade - ?? did you say you would put together a kit Cheers Bruce Sydney Australia
More information and pricing here: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166535.0
What type of a crimp tool do you use for your tube connectors? What stranded copper wire gauge size will fit in the tube connectors? I wish you had a install pdf file with these type of details.
Yea when I see these metallic ceramic or kevlar woofers know they are going to ring at 5-6k. There is a reason almost all pro woofers are treated paper. It's great that the notch filter made a simple first order crossover work with this combo. Was there any rising impedance on the tweeter? I was curious if you would add a zobel network on the tweeter. I'd love to see the impedance plots before and after. I'm just curious about that.
Thanks for sharing.
Any standard crimp tool will work on the tube connectors. www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94014.0
I could have added a whole impedance trap to flatten the impedance out,but I wanted to keep this as simple as possible.
You can see the measurements here: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94014.0
Tube connectors: I just saw where they are $59 set of four. I had never heard of them before this video. Re: the Klipsch RP-600M can you sell just a set of two with the idea of bypassing the bi-amp option?
That will covered in the next video that will be out tomorrow. The tube connectors will be paralleled to one of the old sets of binding posts so that either/or can be used. They won't be set up for bi-amping though unless you want to add another set of tube connectors and wire them up that way, but I don't feel that you'll gain much doing that on a speaker of this type.
Can you apply the kit to RP-500M model?
Another interesting video, Danny . The other pair of speakers on the bench looked like Infinity Infinitesimals. That is interesting to me, as I own a pair, and my brother also has a pair. What did you do to them? It looks like the EMIT tweeter was replaced with a Dayton Audio AMT2-4. Correct? Did you do anything to the crossover network? Curious minds want to know. Thanks!
I designed a new network for them using the factory tweeter. I fixed a dipped out area in the response and adjusted the phase to keep the drivers in phase over a wider range. I can show before and after measurements if you want. E-mail me and I'll forward them over to you so you can see what I did. info@gr-research.com
The parts quality in those are also pretty junkie. So just upgrading to some air core inductors and budget level poly caps was a big upgrade.
I then design a new network for the use of the AMT tweeter. It required a more complex crossover, but in the end measured about the same.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks. I'll send you a note.
13:12 How do you we go from looking at charts and data measuring speaker performance to talking about beliefs and what one person says he hears that another person doesn't. I think there are many people open to the idea, we just want to see the measurements, and if there aren't measurements, it's strange to call people who want evidence "flat earth" people. Even a blind A/B study with a significant sample size would be sufficient, and maybe even more practical than potentially inaudible measurements.
Where to find the tube connectors?
gr-research.com/electracabletubeconnectors.aspx
Have you ever tested a Scansonic speaker ? Like de bookshelf MB1-B?
good job !
Sir , you have TONS of comments to read thru but the analysis of the Klipsch was awesome. How about the debut 6.2? Thx for the great info
You only have to watch the first 5seconds to give full ad revenue.
I heard/read other things.
No you absolutely dont
@@masterofgames8261 to me or the other guy?
Would you also recommend Klipsh RP-500M paired with a SPL-120 subwoofer? I would be using PS Sprout100 to power them. Thoughts?
What's your opinion on bi-amping the RP-600ms from a receiver that supports it? Would it improve the sound over stock, or enable you to do some of the same changes as you've done here with an updated crossover design?
Bi-amping this speaker will have little to no effect on how it sounds. And how it is driven has nothing to do with the things that the new crossover solves.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks, I really appreciate the reply. I'm quite new to the audio world, so I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I am considering buying these speakers, and upgrading them .
Are they a good purchase in your opinion, or would you recommend something else?
Secondly, I enjoyed the sound of Klipsch speakers listening to them in store, so does upgrading them with your method change the "voicing" of the speaker to make it more neutral, or is it more about cleaning up the sound and making it more balanced with less interference?
Honestly I doubt that these are going to be at the level of some of our kits. I am pretty sure the X-LS Encore kits will best these in all areas. But upgrading a speaker and building a whole kit is a different level of DIY.
However, these speakers plus the upgrades is going to be a very high value.
The change is going to be in making them sound cleaner, have better detail levels, less smearing, more balanced, better imaging, easier to listen to long term, etc.
I d love to do this to my 600m ,unfortunately dont have a clue how solder or begin to take the 600 apart . Does it come with directions?