Thanks Lee! I’m about to order a new 2023 event Sunfish from the Worlds in Miami this year. I hope to be there to volunteer and possibly inspect some of the boats. Love all your tips!!
Thanks Lee. I actually have ordered one of the boats. I originally owned a 1976 Phillips starfish but it was very heavy and turning to powder. I am excited to get my first Sunfish. Great to hear the end caps will be replaced from my vendor. Excellent review with good information.
Great, unbiased review Lee. I wonder what 3D filament was used on those end caps? For load-bearing parts we would have used PETG with fibers for strength. But on a mass-produced boat we would have paid the money for injection-molded parts. Do you think that shipping costs will affect the prices on the 2023 boats after Worlds in Ecuador? I sure would like one of these World's boats.
Older hulls are heavier, usually. The Vanguard hulls were abouy 128-129 off the line. The alcorts were about 134 and up. Of course you will find lighter versions…. Same hull shape. Spar length the same…. Stiffness in spars, i think depends in who you ask…
Hi Gus…. Time will tell witj the hulls…. Eugene schmitt owns a sarasota boat as well as a couple other people i know…. They haven’t had issue with oil canning or softness.
Good review, but how many bags of gold for a Garda sunfish? I once had a, gentley used, ex world class boat , from another class. It was nice with plenty of bells and whistles. It didn't make me any faster, only experience and smarter sailing did. Could be a good investment if you plan to race in the class for a while. However, for the average racer, a good used hull with new sails, hardware and lines makes more sense.
5K for a new boat with a dolly, vs. basically the same boat, with trailer, for 500-900, used... for 95 percent of Sunfish owners, I think used, reconditioned boats are the most sensible choice. But who said boat ownership was ever "sensible". lol? My sense of sunfish boating is that most people keep active in it for up to a decade, then they either trade up to bigger boats, or phase out of sailing, and the sunfish goes to its next temporary owner. When you get to the child-rearing part of your life, often you have to put sailing away for a bit, at least until the kids are old enough to also participate - that can be a fun time, when the boat is a family affair. When you get back to it, after taking that break for raising kids, there's a window of time when your body can still do the activity well, and while there are plenty of exceptions, many folks age-out, or get medical issues, and then decide to let the boat give someone younger the same joy. That's how I got my first boat, from someone about 20 years older than me. I don't think it's uncommon for a Sunfish to serve three or more generations.
Very true…. The Sunfish is a great bjat to share anongst generations…. And as with many things (cars, boats, houses) sometimes a used one offers more/same bells and whistles for less money than new. That’s why i never bought a brand new car. But I have bought brand new boats when i felt the package was a good deal. Now a days, finding a good used boat is also a financial challenge as many people are asking premium prices.
Yet the Sunfish remains one of the most "affordable" entry-level boats. Cheaper than a Laser, or an Opti, for sure. Score a beater version locally for maybe 200 to 300 bucks, get hooked on the sport, trade up. When I sell my fish, I'm sure it will be at a loss. It's worth more money parted-out than as a whole boat ready-to-sail, but that's not my way... I'll part with mine for far less money, than I've spent, if I can find the right buyer: a parent and child who want to do this as a special activity together, with their sons and daughters. Or a club or school that will use it to ignite a passion for the water in the next generation.
@@skylarking12 If you can find a good used boat for $500-900, count yourself (very) lucky. Cost is also dependent on the area where you are looking and the time of the year.
I like to say the same thing about boats as I do for motorcycles: the biggest competition a new Harley has is, ...all the old Harleys still out there. Some guy out there grabbed old Sunfish molds and added an extension plug to lengthen them a tad, called it a whole new model of boat with a new name... nobody was buying that line. Was it worth that much extra money, over a slightly used real Sunfish? Most folks said; "no". Sunfish are rugged and uniform and fixable and they are darn near immortal, and good used ones are always going to be serious competition vs. new. The top quality difference I see in the Guarda boats is the air bags vs. foam blocks for weight but... the foam blocks also added *stiffness* to the hull, if installed well and kept tight. The air bags can't add any stiffening internally, so, did they add some other stiffening under the deck and along the hulls inside, at the factory, to keep the boat from oil-canning and flexing? Flexing hulls lose energy in racing. If they did add stiffeners, then that's a long term significant advantage. Most of the other features of the Guarda boats, frankly, IMO, while nice, you can put on your own current old used fish by making a few orders from Vela or the other vendors, and be dollars ahead, with parity performance. The thing that makes Sunfish racing so successful is that you really can't buy a win, just by upgrading the boat, very much; the Association keeps the boats fair across a wide range pf years so, as you say in your comments, Lee, it's not the boat; it's the sailor's skill that ultimately makes a win. And that's exactly how it should be, and what keeps the Sunfish -or any class - alive. I do get your comment about high end "racing" car owners who never go anywhere but shopping or work in their Porches and BMW's. My sense of it is, the great majority of Sunfish owners aren't that type. But I don't begrudge their existence; they keep the factory building new boats, after all, :-)
LP seems to be determined to kill the geese that lay the golden eggs! Their relation with both the Laser and Sunfish associations is downright adversarial!
Thanks Lee! I’m about to order a new 2023 event Sunfish from the Worlds in Miami this year. I hope to be there to volunteer and possibly inspect some of the boats. Love all your tips!!
Excellent! Thanks for watching! See you in Miami!
Thanks Lee. I actually have ordered one of the boats. I originally owned a 1976 Phillips starfish but it was very heavy and turning to powder. I am excited to get my first Sunfish. Great to hear the end caps will be replaced from my vendor. Excellent review with good information.
Awesome! Good luck with your new boat!
I received my 2023 Sunfish two weeks ago from Sunfish Direct . I have the original end caps , not the 3D .
That was probably not the Worlds Boat, right? Only the worlds boats have these end caps(as far as i know). Enjoy!
Thanks for the info, Lee! I was wondering who got the new boats after watching your coverage of the world championships.
You’re welcome!
Great, unbiased review Lee. I wonder what 3D filament was used on those end caps? For load-bearing parts we would have used PETG with fibers for strength. But on a mass-produced boat we would have paid the money for injection-molded parts. Do you think that shipping costs will affect the prices on the 2023 boats after Worlds in Ecuador? I sure would like one of these World's boats.
Shipping definitely will affect the costs. By how much? Is to be determined.
We are very proud of your accomplishments.
Thank you
Lee- What about he weight differences and comparisons between old and new? Any changes in hull shape? Spars length or stiffness?
Older hulls are heavier, usually. The Vanguard hulls were abouy 128-129 off the line. The alcorts were about 134 and up. Of course you will find lighter versions…. Same hull shape. Spar length the same…. Stiffness in spars, i think depends in who you ask…
Nice job Lee! How are the boats holding up after lots of hard racing? Have there been any issues with the hulls becoming soft?
Hi Gus…. Time will tell witj the hulls…. Eugene schmitt owns a sarasota boat as well as a couple other people i know…. They haven’t had issue with oil canning or softness.
Good review, but how many bags of gold for a Garda sunfish? I once had a, gentley used, ex world class boat , from another class. It was nice with plenty of bells and whistles. It didn't make me any faster, only experience and smarter sailing did. Could be a good investment if you plan to race in the class for a while. However, for the average racer, a good used hull with new sails, hardware and lines makes more sense.
The new boat will cost about 5-5500 usd…. Thansk for the comment!
5K for a new boat with a dolly, vs. basically the same boat, with trailer, for 500-900, used... for 95 percent of Sunfish owners, I think used, reconditioned boats are the most sensible choice. But who said boat ownership was ever "sensible". lol?
My sense of sunfish boating is that most people keep active in it for up to a decade, then they either trade up to bigger boats, or phase out of sailing, and the sunfish goes to its next temporary owner. When you get to the child-rearing part of your life, often you have to put sailing away for a bit, at least until the kids are old enough to also participate - that can be a fun time, when the boat is a family affair. When you get back to it, after taking that break for raising kids, there's a window of time when your body can still do the activity well, and while there are plenty of exceptions, many folks age-out, or get medical issues, and then decide to let the boat give someone younger the same joy.
That's how I got my first boat, from someone about 20 years older than me. I don't think it's uncommon for a Sunfish to serve three or more generations.
Very true…. The Sunfish is a great bjat to share anongst generations…. And as with many things (cars, boats, houses) sometimes a used one offers more/same bells and whistles for less money than new. That’s why i never bought a brand new car. But I have bought brand new boats when i felt the package was a good deal. Now a days, finding a good used boat is also a financial challenge as many people are asking premium prices.
Yet the Sunfish remains one of the most "affordable" entry-level boats. Cheaper than a Laser, or an Opti, for sure. Score a beater version locally for maybe 200 to 300 bucks, get hooked on the sport, trade up. When I sell my fish, I'm sure it will be at a loss. It's worth more money parted-out than as a whole boat ready-to-sail, but that's not my way... I'll part with mine for far less money, than I've spent, if I can find the right buyer: a parent and child who want to do this as a special activity together, with their sons and daughters. Or a club or school that will use it to ignite a passion for the water in the next generation.
@@skylarking12 If you can find a good used boat for $500-900, count yourself (very) lucky. Cost is also dependent on the area where you are looking and the time of the year.
My performance goal for 2023 is to be SO GOOD that the weight of the ink on my sail is my final frontier. "If ONLY I had a pure white sail!!!"
Hahahaha. Thats awesome.
I like to say the same thing about boats as I do for motorcycles: the biggest competition a new Harley has is, ...all the old Harleys still out there. Some guy out there grabbed old Sunfish molds and added an extension plug to lengthen them a tad, called it a whole new model of boat with a new name... nobody was buying that line. Was it worth that much extra money, over a slightly used real Sunfish? Most folks said; "no".
Sunfish are rugged and uniform and fixable and they are darn near immortal, and good used ones are always going to be serious competition vs. new. The top quality difference I see in the Guarda boats is the air bags vs. foam blocks for weight but... the foam blocks also added *stiffness* to the hull, if installed well and kept tight. The air bags can't add any stiffening internally, so, did they add some other stiffening under the deck and along the hulls inside, at the factory, to keep the boat from oil-canning and flexing? Flexing hulls lose energy in racing. If they did add stiffeners, then that's a long term significant advantage. Most of the other features of the Guarda boats, frankly, IMO, while nice, you can put on your own current old used fish by making a few orders from Vela or the other vendors, and be dollars ahead, with parity performance.
The thing that makes Sunfish racing so successful is that you really can't buy a win, just by upgrading the boat, very much; the Association keeps the boats fair across a wide range pf years so, as you say in your comments, Lee, it's not the boat; it's the sailor's skill that ultimately makes a win. And that's exactly how it should be, and what keeps the Sunfish -or any class - alive. I do get your comment about high end "racing" car owners who never go anywhere but shopping or work in their Porches and BMW's. My sense of it is, the great majority of Sunfish owners aren't that type. But I don't begrudge their existence; they keep the factory building new boats, after all, :-)
All excellent points ! Thanks for watching!
I'm always suspicious of a new boat.The test of time rules.
LP seems to be determined to kill the geese that lay the golden eggs! Their relation with both the Laser and Sunfish associations is downright adversarial!
The way they have run their business, surprises many many people….