It's all coming full circle and it's taken 30yrs to get here. Specialized did extensive testing on rolling resistance back in the 80s. This was when they came out with the Turbo clincher tire. The whole "narrower is faster and more aero" craze kicked off. The 1984 Olympics was also a catalyst for 'more aero' when the crazy aero pursuit bikes appeared. Was a higher pressure and narrow tire faster? Yes, their tests showed it was.... but what few realized that was on a perfectly smooth surface (like in a velodrome). Regardless road tire manufacturers took that and ran with it. Racers started running 19c-23c tires (yes... some guys ran 19c or 21c tires!) at 115-120psi! Crazy! The 19c and 21c tires died out after a few years (too many flats and damaged rims) so 23c @ 100+ psi became the norm. However on the road any bumps and other imperfections killed any forward momentum when the tire bounced up and over rather than deforming and absorbing it. Rivendell was saying this since 1996 but no one listened until recently. Being a bigger guy (61cm frame and 185lb racing weight back in the 90s (much heavier now) I would race on 25c (@95psi) and I trained on 28c tires (@80-90psi). Even though it was heavier 28c at slightly lower pressure for me was the best combo. It was comfortable and more versatile (because back then, early 90s, some of us Nebraska roadies would dive off onto a gravel road section to liven things up on training rides). Most 'racing' frames of the period could barely clear a 28c so I stuck with steel frames rather than aluminum or carbon. With the advent of gravel riding the 'all road' bike concept has really influenced bike designs and a road frame today that can only fit a 23-25c tire is stupid. Wider tires are back and there's so many tire options out there now. Today I think a 28-32c road tire is the sweet spot for fast road riding. Running at 80-95 psi (for a big guy like me, less if you're lighter) is faster over real pavement and you can ride gravel with the same tire too. Wider and lower pressure is better! 🙌🏽
This is so true...hardly fitted 25c in my old road bike, had to shred something off to fit im my frame :) ...and I already felt that my daily comuting fitness bike with 28c was faster ...now I ride 32c and for me (I'm heavier as well) it is absolutely the sweet spot of fast and comfortable...I'd just go lower on 28c or 30c if lightweight is the absolute priority
Great video. Back in the old days when I was mtb racing we would have to select the exact psi for every course each race. The goal was always the lowest pressure possible because we learned that the highest traction and control allowed you to ride your fastest just like crit racing. We found the best way of determining that was high speed corners so we’d go to the fastest corner on the course and do repeats dropping the pressure until we felt the tire was no longer stable then we’d add 2 psi. That’s all it took, 2 psi to be stable again. So if your 50 psi is a bit soft try 52!
For clean tubless setup do this: 1. Put the tire on. 2. Pump it up and get it seated with no sealant in. If the tire doesn't want to pop on, remove valve inner core (it's very restrictive) and do it without it. 3. Let the air out slowly (tire should stay on ideally). 4. Remove valve inner core and use syringe to add sealant through the valve. 5. Pump the tire. To make it easier, use pump with a pressurised chamber. I use Bontrager TLR Flash Charger Floor Pump, but there is many there to choose from. Ps. Try running rear tire at slightly higher pressure 5-10psi. There is more weight at the rear.
With some tire no matter what you do, it just won't seat... The valve core doesn't make a difference to me though, maybe that's for MTB tyres. I don't agree the syringe though, at first I go this way until then you find it's just a waste of time. Just pour sealant in the bottom of the tyres, it's way more faster.
In the early 80s I was running 125-135psi on Continental Ultra 18mm front AND rear. Couple that with a concrete like (aptly named) Concor Profil saddle and a pair of Duegi wooden sole shoes and you're not worried about tire pressure so much. Ahhh the good old days of RAAM 83.
@@RAXIIIIIIII yes. Especially if you’re light. I’m 70 kg and will have 70psi in front and a few over 70 in the back. You’ll go faster over rough roads and more comfort.
@Raxi_ Does it say that on wheels or tires? If it is on your wheels, it has more to do with tire width than anything and usually that is for a max psi. If the rim has a lower limit... in your case - 90... it may be because of the rim sidewall hook design (I don't think these are hookless cuz hookless are usually lower). There is usually, at minimum, a 30% safety factor built in... sometimes 50%. So the max and mins would be 0.77 or 0.67 respectively. Most good technical advice recommends focusing on the lowest recommended psi between the tire and the rim as long as you are staying within the width range of the rim. This is where rims most often fail... when a wider tire is put on, where the width... say 20mm... is at or beyond the limit of the rim and then it's inadvertently over-inflated. Hope this helps.
Normally run my tubeless setup at 80-85 ish. The other day I forgot to pump up the tyres before heading out. Almost went back to get the pump but decided to give it a go. Ride felt amazing - quicker and more comfortable. Checked pressures when I got back 50/front 55/rear. Sold! 👍😃
What some people may not consider is that the lower PSI is also beneficial to preventing fatigue on the bike over long durations. The road chatter experienced using high PSI can be taxing. This season coming I'll be on 30mm tires and likely 60/60 PSI, I am a 85-90kg rider. Right now i run 65/70 PSI on 28mm tires and it's great for all types of riding, also maybe a little tire dependent? I run conti's but have ran Schwalbe in the past which were a MUCH softer tire I found, so didn't run as low of PSI.
Personally, I enjoy the win/win when I went from running 28mm butyl tubed at around 95 psi to 32mm tubeless at 63 psi - better ride quality and higher speeds at equivalent effort.
@@jdmcdorce876 I have two set of wheels: 1. "Fast" 56 mm deep with 26c S-Works tyres (to be replaced when worn out by 28c GP5000) and TPU inner tubes. 2. "Adventure" 38mm deep, 30c tyres (GP5000) and butyl tubes. When I have quick rides on well-known smooth roads --> (1). When having long, Z2 rides or to explore unknown areas --> (2). Also these days it's getting more and more windy (fall 😞) so (2) is much more stable.
I weigh about 165. I started lowering pressures when I shifted to road tubeless about five years ago. I started at around 85 F/R and I've gradually been lowering pressures. I've settled on tubeless 28s at 62/65 F/R for about two years now for fast road riding. It feels great in corners, it makes rides less tiring for my hands and I don't think it's any slower. This corroborates that feeling.
Pretty much spot on in what I do, I weigh pretty much the same too. A lot of people still look at me like I'm crazy if I tell them I run 65PSI/4.5 bar. Especially at crits here in the Netherlands. Lots of older conservative guys.
I'm about the same weight and have settled on the same tire pressures. I had a slow leak last year and an OLD SCHOOL cyclist got in an argument with me when I borrowed his pump on the road. He literally shoved me aside and started furiously pumping air into my tires, trying to hit 95 (which he had marked on his gauge). He kept shouting that I was going to kill myself, while I kept shouting "these are hookless carbon rims," which sounded ridiculous to both of us.
You forgot to mention rider weight. Very different number for a 50kg rider compared to a 100kg rider. You also forgot to mention that best practice is to run lower tire pressure on the front tire. Usually 5 to 10psi. Depending on rider preference. I'm 63kg. I run 62psi front 72psi rear. Latex tubes on narrow 25mm tires. NEVER pinch flat'd in hundreds of thousands of kms. On 28mm tires I'd be down 50psi front. So I suspect for the average 70-75kg rider 60psi would be ideal on 28mm tires, front wheel. Front wheels usually support about 40%-45% of the total weight. Hence the lower pressure. Lower is virtually always better. Riders think harder is faster because it feels faster, because of the increased vibration. It's an illusion. The shaking is wasted energy.
Your lower pressure front to back makes no sense. Maybe your front wheel supports 45% of the weight when the bike isn't moving, assuming you don't move either. But if you're braking hard, climbing et al then your distribution changes significantly - far more significantly than the differences on a stationary road or gravel bike - it's close enough to 50/50 that it makes no sense at all to use different pressures front to back. In fact the idea you'd have any significant tyre pressure difference because of a 2-5% weight difference makes no sense at all. You're saying 10 psi? Nope. It'd be a couple of psi max and it's very unlikely whatever equipment you'd use to put either 70 or 72 psi in the tyres is measuring the psi accurately enough for you to actually put in a 2 psi difference in the first place. Unless you have purchased digital pressure gauges that have been calibrated. But, as soon as you brake hard then you need to quickly change the psi in the tyres according to your idea the weight distribution matters because now you won't have enough air in the front tyre. Nope, if the weight matters then you'd need sufficient air in the front tyre to handle braking when your weight will transfer to the front to the point where the back tyre has more or less no traction.
Interesting point, You run them extremely low, is this even in the range of pressure recommended by producers? I somewhat agree with energy loss, but it always feels really sluggish to start from full stop and quickly accelerate on low pressure. I noticed that tread pattern, sidewall construction, rubber compound and weight are all factors in how tire performs on lower pressure - I decided to stay away from nylone and hard casing for that reason, they all rolls like brick.
These videos are right up there with Shane Miller's videos. Informative, entertaining and everything explained in a way that I can understand. Keep up the great work Jeff!
i've run 100s of miles on 32mm gp5000s with tubes @ 54F 56R and have yet to pinch flat. only this past year have been experimenting with lower pressures and love it.
What is your weight? I have the same tires and I am strugling to find what pressure shoulkd i use. There is recomendation to use 85 psi (6bar), but calculators show less. 180 lbs (80kg) is my weight.
Someone mentioned this below, but what seems obvious in the pictures above is that when you are running 60PSI, you are more likely to damage the rim vs 100psi. I once ran over a pothole and it destroyed my front Roval Alu wheel - cracked it. I was using tubulars and probably around 70psi in the front. Yes 90-100 psi is a lot less comfortable but it's more likely to bounce off obstacles than bottom the rim. I have a feeling a carbon wheel would be just a bad if not worse than aluminum when it bottoms out on an obstacle.
i myself went down from 85 to 70 over the last year and a half and i liked it very much. your video motivates me to try to go even lower now (i did not cross my mind until now, because of the calculators you mentioned). great video thank you for it
My tubeless set up for the past year, I'm 6'1", 180 lbs - 30mm GP5000STR tires on 19mm internal WTO's - 60F/65R - Race bike 32mm Maxxis Refuse tires on 25mm internal 303FC's - 47F/57R - All road bike. Roads are pretty bad where I ride, but I would suggest that all roads everywhere are deteriorating significantly. I think this helps explain the way we used to ride 110 psi 20-30 years ago. Also frames and wheels have become much stiffer.
Internal rim width is a bigger factor that dictates the pressure, followed by tire width. A 28mm tire may measure 30mm on a wider internal rim width and can accommodate more volume thus lowering pressure compared to a narrower internal rim width. This will also affect the squishiness of the tires since the sidewalls are supported better with wider wheels. Was Blaine running the same wheels? Wheels need to be the same for this experiment.
maybe I'm just weird, but I'm running about 75-80psi with my normal 28mm clinchers, non tubeless. Tried 70psi and instantly felt like it was super squishy and unresponsive. haven't tried tubeless though
Amazing video, can you guys do the same for tires with inner tubes. I am still in my old school 25mm conti and would like to see the results you guys achieve. Cheers
Trackrat here: I run 150 in my A-bike's tubulars and 120 in my B-bike's clinchers. I've never been on a wood surface, but this has worked for me on the outdoor tracks in the midwest.
My daughter races on wooden tracks - runs 200 - 220 psi on her race wheels with Vittoria Pista tubulars. I know because I pump up the tires - my arm workout for the day 😂
I'm a total amateur (85 kg), don't race, just ride casually on average quality tarmacs and my results improved dramatically when I switched from 70 to 105 PSI. I haven't noticed any differance in comfort, but I ride an endurance frame which might be the reason for that
it's almost certainly less efficient at 105psi unless you're on very smooth tarmac, like brand new pavement. but you're the ultimate judge, just make sure you're within the spec of your equipment, many tubeless tires have a max rating of 100psi
Dry 66psi front, 70psi rear. Wet 60psi front 65psi rear 28mm Cadex classics on Enve 5.6’s. A lot of the calculators say 63/66psi for my weight. (86kg/190lbs)
New test - Vittoria tyre inserts. I ride tubeless 30mm Conti GP5000STR (measure 32mm) with Vittoria tyre inserts 32-45psi depending on weather/road surface conditions with a few psi less for front. System weight 75kg.
I do easy training rides on a hard-tail mtb with 38mm tubeless at 44 psi in front and 46 psi in back. I started doing this because it's super comfy and allows me to ride longer with no pain, but the big surprise is that my Strava times are not much slower (1-2 mph usually) than my road bike. My next road bike will definitely have wider, tubeless tires run at lower psi.
CXer over a decade. Used wider road tires and lower pressure for years over rough roads and mixed terrain. Road finally caught up to CX logic with tires.
I'm an average cyclist but since I moved to wider wheel (DT Swiss G1800) which are gravel aluminium wheels and used 30mm tubeless tire with 64 PSI, it makes the ride very comfortable which then allows me to ride faster just a little bit longer without discomfort.
Low tire pressure is great until you pinch flat due to low pressure. Yes, you can pinch flat tubeless; the sidewall actually is cut by the rim edge. Have fun with a cut sidewall when out in the middle of a long ride. I prefer 80 to 85 on a normal road surface but run 105 on really crappy roads to avoid pinch flats. And you can have tubeless. What a crock of crap and super hassle. Run latex tubes with sealant; works like a charm. Run pressure to the road surface and ride/race on that day. Also, tubeless tires on non-tubeless rims works well if you don't have a non-tubeless tire. You can have tubeless rims and tubeless tires. Regular rims and tires with latex and sealant are easy to maintain, minimal mess, and make tube changes a breeze if you do flat. Also, be sure to carry a boot in case you cut your tire. You will be able to at least get home. If I were still criterium racing, I would use 23c or 25c and TPU tubes on shallow aero rims. The constant deceleration and acceleration and short hills really take on toll on the legs during a long crit. Larger tires on road races makes sense. 28mm on a crit? You can have the extra weight.
Great topic - but watch for rim damage! Pinch flatted & cracked both rims this year. Ran GP5000 STR & Corso Pros 28mm's on Enve SES 4.5s at Enve's recommended tubeless pressures ~50psi for 143lbs/64kg. Pinch flatted, raised several psi; pinched and chipped front wheel; raised again, pinched and cracked rear wheel, all incidents at ~20 - 30mph on run-of-the-mill potholes similar to the one in the vid. 50psi feels great, but no more. Industry calculators run the gamut for my weight/wheel/tire combo: Enve @50, Sram @59, Silca @68, so no pro consensus on best safe/performing pressure.
Great video, thank you. Key takeaway: the efficiency curve is very flat near recommended pressure, so that you could probably adjust up or down 10-20% to get the ride character you want without really changing efficiency. Best guess for NorCal: 60-65, on those roads. (70-75psi @ 88kg/194lb currently myself)
Best advice is to purchase a Topeak digital tire pressure gauge for accurate tire pressure. My Specialized pump mechanical gauge was like 20psi low. Oh, and I still run a 23mm on my Roval CLX60 front at 103-106 psi 😊
Love the video, very fun idea but you should talk about safety a bit more. Gp5000 28mm have max psi of 94, you should not run them over the recommendation. Second, hookless rims are even lower, usually 80 psi max. If you want to run super low pressures and not burp while cornering, Vittoria air-liner inserts will add a safety factor if you want to test it out, and also help with high speed flat safety. Id recommend them for anyone going above 80km while descending.
Love all your videos, long time racer now retired from racing. What always made me nervous about low psi was rolling a tire off the rim on a hard corner. Still have nightmares about that! And I had one cyclocross race where I went just too low - I must have crashed 20 times. Couldn't control the bike on corners although those were glue ons so no worry about roll off. Thanks for all your great videos.
Some of us had to get past the mental block of the original 19mm race tires having to be pumped to 120psi to not pinch flat. They were fast, hard, and didnt last at all. Conti came in with 21mm and they looked huge but we still pumped to 110 and just kept that thinking since we road steel bikes with beautiful flexy chrome forks that we could watch flex 1/2 inch over bumps. Carbon frames came about stiff as a board and gave the precise road feel of formula one cars but the problem was chip and seal/rough roads gave wayyyy too much feedback. These newer 28-30mm tires and 77psi pressures feel great to my 56yr old back!!
I'm 6'3" and 190lbs running 25c at 95psi - I tried at 80psi and I was getting pinch flats left and right. Seems I can't go any lower than about 90psi at my weight.
Totally agree here. Only 6’ tall but weight 195# and anything below 105 PSI and back tire feels squishy and both tires are sluggish. Rolling resistance goes to crap. I stay at 110 psi or higher and it works for me. 25mm front and back. I ride a Specialized Roubaix so that allows me to run more narrow tires since the frame does a better job of absorbing the road bumps than a wider tire could.
Riding a Trek Domane, 6'4" 275lbs... 28c, 85PSI and I get one flat or two per year (3000 to 4000km) and they are not pinch flats. The gatorskins are not the best tire for rolling resistance, but for flats they are pretty good.
I got a pretty bad blowout in my rear tire on a rail trail one day, no pump on me but it managed to seal at what felt like, and confirmed later to be 30psi. So now I've got 15miles to go and a group passes me. Guess what, im taking turns doing 30mph on 30psi-28mm tires. Smoothest ride I've ever had!
Past 2 years I've run 25mm tubeless at 60-65psi (125lb rider) with fantastic results. Comfortable, fast, sticks corners and in 2 years only twice have had punctures seal themselves, no total flats.
I am a 90 kg sprinter, running tubeless 28c tyres which blow up to 30mm on wide rims. Around 63 psi front and 69 rear is my setup now for 2 or 3 years and it is pretty much perfect for everyday use and mixed roads.
It took me YEARS to ween myself of very high pressures. My first training and racing was on a the velodrome when I was young (in the '90s), because it was only a few km from my parents' place. I didn't even know what criteriums were. Even though it was a not-so-smooth Plexipave surface, everyone pumped their tubulars up to over 160psi! So, I later took this thinking to my road training and criterium racing. In the '90s, 20mm clinchers were the norm, and some people used 18mm. I put at least 140psi in all my 20mm clinchers. I rode mostly on good roads. When 23mm tyres became the norm, I went around town buying all the 18s and 20s! 😀 I eventually switched to 23s (big difference; I should've switched much sooner), but I still put about 130 in the rear and 110 in the front (I was well over 80kg then). Anyway, after all these years, I'm down to about 100 rear and 90 front. How INTERESTING!! 😀
correct tire pressures on average surfaces in the dry; 2-3psi above first sign of squirm during fastest/hardest cornering. 6psi softer in the front tire.
Tested my pressures over the past couple years for tubeless and landed on 60 psi for 25mm. Looking to get 28mm tires next time I need to replace and potentially go a little lower. I weigh around 160-165 lbs.
And if rene herse is to be believed, you can go even larger on the tires. I don't race, but I went from 28mm/100psi to 35mm/65psi (tubed) on my endurance road bike. Far more comfort & stability without the loss of any speed. No pinch flat problems either--just thorn flat problems.
I have been surfing the low end of the pressure range for awhile and knew it felt better overall. Didn't really seem significantly slower. Thanks for demonstrating that there's actually no penalty at all, and it's just limited by handling!
Time for some inserts on the road bike Jeff... 40psi, inserts.... doooo it. do it! hahah. On the MTB I run 13psi up front in a 2.35 tire, and 13.5 rear with a 2.25 tire, rear does have an insert though as I dont enjoy hearing the rim ping when I am at speed. I am 86kg.
I have a wheelset with an internal width of 29mm which I run 32mm GP5k STRs - making them measure 35.5mm. Riding them at 60 PSI is soooo buttery smooth and faster than my other wheels with 25mms at 80 PSI. The wider tires cornering is also much better. People look at them like "Wtf" but they're super comfy and very fast in my Strava segment watt/speed comparison with other tires I've used. Wheels are 3T Discus 45|40, so 29mm internal, 40 external, so up to 38mm wide slicks still are within "the rule of 105".
Love this video. I just did a similar test recently with the same results. I’m now thinking about going to 32’s and running 50psi. Currently on 28’s at 55/58psi.
Actually, yeah with tubes you’re probably right. Get rid of them and then try 60’s. I switched from butyl, to latex, to tubeless myself in about 6 months. Don’t know why I waited so long. Tubeless is great. Enjoy!
152 pounds, i run 60/63 in both my latex tubed 28mm tires, and my tubeless 28mm tires (same brand/model, just the T model). I can go lower but the bike feels splashy. It never did anything weird, it just felt like it didn't respond to a dip into a corner as fast as I'd like, and if I came out of a corner, and went right back to upright (say like a sprint out of a corner), it felt splashy there too. Basically sudden changes upset the feel. I ended up doing exactly what you suggested and those numbers seemed about right for me.
I have a hybrid bike in the Trek Dual sport 4 from 2021 with 700c by 40mm and I find between 45-60 is optimal for me. I have it currently at 55 in the back and 47 in the front. I may suggest trying a slightly lower pressure in the front sense it does not have all of the body weight over it. You maybe able to get away with 50 PSI in the front without compromising safety.
If you go too low you may get pinch flat even on a wider tire. Note if you run a 23 at say 90 pounds and a 28 at say 80 the 28 may be harder as there is more air underneath you and thus more rigidity, certainly if both tires are riding at say 90 then the 23 will give a gentler ride and more pinch flats. Wider is only more gentler if you let out enough air. In the old days we rode wide tires on bigger rims and they were slow because they were so hard to accelerate, that is why 23 and high pressure won out, high pressure required to avoid pinch flats
I run TPU tubes and one of the biggest disadvantages is that they are way more prone to pinch flats than butyl. i think 70 psi is the lower limit but of course if you're riding on bumpy roads over the day then the psi will drop so I personally have them at 80psi before going out. On a good note though they haven't given me any other punchers other than two pinch flats.
@@richeeg3271 I suspect when I had the punctures my front tire was hovering around 60 psi. I was being lazy checking the pressure. I've found since that if I have the tire at 80psi after 5 days and a few hundred kms the tire has lost 20 psi
@@thomasullmann7447 Just had my front pinch flat last night on a TPU tube at about 70 psi on 28mm tires. Not sure if it was bad luck, bad tube, or I need to raise the pressure a bit like you have. I'm 73kg too.
I'm 154 with Hed Ardenne clinchers ( 25) and run just under 70 psi, which is about what they recommend and have been doing it for 10 years. Our roads are pretty good here but with occasional rough areas and never a pinch flat
50 feels like a bit of squish when sprinting uphill as well. I have kept mine around 63 psi at 145 lbs and 28 mm tire and been happy with that. On my commuter I run 34mm tires at 45 psi and man is it a plush ride.
The high pressure on a wider tyre chatters much more than a thinner tyre, because the contact patch is so much wider. Because a bump is introduced "across the tyre", there is already more tyre to exert force against it, resulting in less deformation. A 23mm at 100psi will feel plush compared to 28/30mm at 100psi
With all respect there is one more point to be added. If you use a very supple tyre e.g. Vittoria N.EXT, running tyre pressure under 80psi can increase your chances of getting pinch flats depending on your rim design. I was getting continuous pinch flats until I increased my tyre pressure to 80psi every time I hit a small rock or pot hole. Just sharing info.
72 psi with tubes! As a mechanic, I hate the mess. I'll run tubeless all day long on my mtn bike at super low psi. But, for high psi road, 70 to 75 is the multi-point sweetspot for the following: no worry about loose tolerance fit for possible bad seal, no gooey mess, less tire change time, grip, comfort, and no snake bite pinch flats. Haven't had one yet at this psi (pinch flat). The half pound of weight (tubes) is silly to worry about when tubes negate three of the listed advantages (or disadvantages of messy sealant). If you research and pay attention to tread thickness and puncture resistance of newly purchased tires and you inspect consistently... road debris is no more of a hassle either.
I run 30c on a 25mm internal rim and they measure to 33.1 mm, which seems huge, but running those at 60/58 they feel faster and more comfortable than any other wheel/tire I’ve felt. Cornering they feel incredible as well. Strongly recommend
I fully agree...last time I ran on about 50psi (cause I didn't check the tire pressure) hardly any diffence on rolling resistance on tubeless tires just a little bit to squishy...for me 70 to 75 is perfect (I'm a heavier rider than you)...but doesn't work on normal clinchers which I have on my other bike..lower is slower seems to be the rule
I tried experimenting with the tire pressure on my fixed gear bike. What I noticed is I have to pedal harder on lower psi (50-60psi) and I was coasting with little force applied on the pedal at higher psi (70-80psi). My weight is 72kg with 23c tires both rear and front. Mind that my area is hilly and I tested the pressure on an inclines (doesn't have a choice)
@@Nowayfrrrrrrr dunno, I would use something like the SRAM or Silca calculator, there are too many variables to consider: internal rim width, bike and rider weight, tire width…
Hi NorCal, I just purchased a new set of Zipp 303 Firecrest hookless rims for a Cervelo Soloist. Living in CO I was looking for an all around wheelset (replacing Reserve 40/44 76/176 hub) primarily for paved road riding, on flats & rollers, with an occasional off road / hard packed dirt farm road (think Old Fall River Road in RMNP). I plan on following Zipp’s compliance standards (Less than 73 psi, tires greater than 28mm, & following the hookless tire compatibility. Question: 1) Following De Gendt’s crash and the UCI’s investigation into the safety of hookless; what has been your experience with riding & racing hookless tires on paved & hard pack dirt roads, any tires blowing off the rims. And 2) Could you rank the following tires 30mm: Sworks Turbo 2BR 2T/5T, Schwalbe Pro One TLE and GP 5000 AS TR. As a newbie to hookless rims I’m trying to determine if this is the right move. Thanks for all you do
Ride the roads in Sonoma and report back, Sonoma has some of the worst road biking roads I've experienced. I tried going lower which felt great but mushy feelings in high speed corners, pot holes and rocks on road made me increase the pressure on the high end, though I am riding a steel bike so not to bad.
I'm new to cycling, I'm a 6' guy weighing about 105kgs and I'm worried about the amount of air to be pumped in the tires. what would be the good range for a daily commute hybrid cycle (Bergamot Sweep 3I). Tires - Kenda Kadence, 32-622 with Kenda tubes.
im 58kg always been using 50 psi GP5000TL and I'm flying and it is also so comfortable to the point that I didn't really feel anything after 5hrs of continues ride.
I have been doing 28s for years, I was at 50psi with tubes for a few years but I would get like 4 pinch flats a year. Now I run tubes at 70 and tubeless for race day at 60-65.
Hey Jeff, once again please remember to weight yourself before every run to keep it equal. I have done the same in the past and between these runs one could easily lose 1-2 punds through sweat depending on the day.
I used to cycle a lot in the 1980s. I hung my bike in the shed for nearly 40 years. Came back to completely restore her - fresh tyres and tubes, and noticed today's tubes and tyres were now at double the pressure they were from the 1980s on the same bike! Bananas 🤔
"...I'm old school and started out on 23c tires..." LOL! You are making me feel old. I was running 18c and 20c tires back in the day. They were pumped up to ridiculous pressures. My first new, full on race bike was a Cannondale. It was jarring to say the least.
15 years ago, I rode 85 psi / 6 bar in my 23mm tires, and it worked very well. I don't get it that people still refer to the good ol' days when riders would start races with 120 psi. That never happened over here unless it was perfect smooth asphalt. Pro riders I know raced in the 90s with tubulars (23mm) at 80-85 psi. Go figure how 'late' most were with simply reducing tire pressure, even on 23mm.
I’ve recently went to tubeless and airliners, on my Canyon CFR, running 28mm tire at 65/70 f/r and big difference from running around 80 psi, smoother ride, much more comfortable. Those glasses are fire, what kind are they? I love the rainbow reflection on the lenses.
I used to ride as a junior at 150 lbs with my tire pressure at max recommended. I rode today with my pressure at 120 rear and 110 front. I think I jarred some of my brain cells out today. Going back to around 80 psi.
I was able to pass a bunch of people in a sportive I did recently because I was able to soak up some bad road on my 32s at 60psi. Granted, I don't race, but still, comfort wins
Thanks for the test. Tire pressure keeps me busy. I probably missed something. But what tire width were you riding, 25, 28 ore 30. And what is your weight. Thanks
Can you measure pressure increase over time (ex. the first 10min of a hot ride), for your preferred pressure? Ive always been curious, and its noticble on mtb rides, particularly those which start early, in cooler condition.
Having just done a road race @35psi because I didnt check beforehand, its more than that. 50 to 60 seems like a sweet spot Conti str 28, 19.4mm id hookless
In a few of the clips in your vid, you showed the wheel going into a significant pothole. I live in pothole country! Is there a risk with 50psi and rim damage if the tire compresses and the edge of a nasty pothole makes contact with the rim ?
@@cornishcat11 data is out a long time ago and is made by experts inside a velodrome not on puclic roads.. It all depends on your physical condition and the condition you are riding on. There is no perfect number for every day ride
The pressure in the tyres should probably be adjusted depending on the the amount of weight on each tyre. At a guess I'd call the weight balance at 55% on the rear and 45% on the front. Based on that I'd suggest maybe run 75psi on the rear and 60psi on the front. Through your hands and arms is where you are going to feel most of the roughness and if the front tyre can be run at a lower pressure then that's what I'd do. Personally I run 120psi at the rear and 100psi on the front on 25mm tyres and a lot more kg than Jeff is.
Will be trying this out on my Zwift race tonight.
😁😁🤣🤣
😂😂😂
Then I lolled 🤣
@@rockytalkndawoods3057joke > you
I do same thing on ADZ, bike's lower front end at lower pressure makes it feel like I am going downhill.
It's all coming full circle and it's taken 30yrs to get here. Specialized did extensive testing on rolling resistance back in the 80s. This was when they came out with the Turbo clincher tire. The whole "narrower is faster and more aero" craze kicked off. The 1984 Olympics was also a catalyst for 'more aero' when the crazy aero pursuit bikes appeared. Was a higher pressure and narrow tire faster? Yes, their tests showed it was.... but what few realized that was on a perfectly smooth surface (like in a velodrome). Regardless road tire manufacturers took that and ran with it. Racers started running 19c-23c tires (yes... some guys ran 19c or 21c tires!) at 115-120psi! Crazy! The 19c and 21c tires died out after a few years (too many flats and damaged rims) so 23c @ 100+ psi became the norm. However on the road any bumps and other imperfections killed any forward momentum when the tire bounced up and over rather than deforming and absorbing it. Rivendell was saying this since 1996 but no one listened until recently. Being a bigger guy (61cm frame and 185lb racing weight back in the 90s (much heavier now) I would race on 25c (@95psi) and I trained on 28c tires (@80-90psi). Even though it was heavier 28c at slightly lower pressure for me was the best combo. It was comfortable and more versatile (because back then, early 90s, some of us Nebraska roadies would dive off onto a gravel road section to liven things up on training rides). Most 'racing' frames of the period could barely clear a 28c so I stuck with steel frames rather than aluminum or carbon. With the advent of gravel riding the 'all road' bike concept has really influenced bike designs and a road frame today that can only fit a 23-25c tire is stupid. Wider tires are back and there's so many tire options out there now. Today I think a 28-32c road tire is the sweet spot for fast road riding. Running at 80-95 psi (for a big guy like me, less if you're lighter) is faster over real pavement and you can ride gravel with the same tire too. Wider and lower pressure is better! 🙌🏽
This is so true...hardly fitted 25c in my old road bike, had to shred something off to fit im my frame :) ...and I already felt that my daily comuting fitness bike with 28c was faster ...now I ride 32c and for me (I'm heavier as well) it is absolutely the sweet spot of fast and comfortable...I'd just go lower on 28c or 30c if lightweight is the absolute priority
Great video. Back in the old days when I was mtb racing we would have to select the exact psi for every course each race. The goal was always the lowest pressure possible because we learned that the highest traction and control allowed you to ride your fastest just like crit racing. We found the best way of determining that was high speed corners so we’d go to the fastest corner on the course and do repeats dropping the pressure until we felt the tire was no longer stable then we’d add 2 psi. That’s all it took, 2 psi to be stable again. So if your 50 psi is a bit soft try 52!
Basically roadies discovering what mtbers have known or been using since 2 decades ago 😂
absolutely agreed! Small changes in pressure have a big difference in support.
For clean tubless setup do this:
1. Put the tire on.
2. Pump it up and get it seated with no sealant in. If the tire doesn't want to pop on, remove valve inner core (it's very restrictive) and do it without it.
3. Let the air out slowly (tire should stay on ideally).
4. Remove valve inner core and use syringe to add sealant through the valve.
5. Pump the tire.
To make it easier, use pump with a pressurised chamber. I use Bontrager TLR Flash Charger Floor Pump, but there is many there to choose from.
Ps. Try running rear tire at slightly higher pressure 5-10psi. There is more weight at the rear.
Alternatively, just use tubes.
With some tire no matter what you do, it just won't seat... The valve core doesn't make a difference to me though, maybe that's for MTB tyres. I don't agree the syringe though, at first I go this way until then you find it's just a waste of time. Just pour sealant in the bottom of the tyres, it's way more faster.
No thanks to all this. I’ll stick with my latex tubes
@@thepatternforms859 Whatever works for you 👍
@@thepatternforms859 Latex tubes suck.
In the early 80s I was running 125-135psi on Continental Ultra 18mm front AND rear. Couple that with a concrete like (aptly named) Concor Profil saddle and a pair of Duegi wooden sole shoes and you're not worried about tire pressure so much. Ahhh the good old days of RAAM 83.
I been running 28's with tubes at 65-70 PSI for the past year on road rides and weekly crits. Love it
Me too pal !
But on the wheels it says: recommended 90-120psi. should i still use lower?
@@RAXIIIIIIII yes. Especially if you’re light. I’m 70 kg and will have 70psi in front and a few over 70 in the back. You’ll go faster over rough roads and more comfort.
@Raxi_ Does it say that on wheels or tires? If it is on your wheels, it has more to do with tire width than anything and usually that is for a max psi. If the rim has a lower limit... in your case - 90... it may be because of the rim sidewall hook design (I don't think these are hookless cuz hookless are usually lower). There is usually, at minimum, a 30% safety factor built in... sometimes 50%. So the max and mins would be 0.77 or 0.67 respectively. Most good technical advice recommends focusing on the lowest recommended psi between the tire and the rim as long as you are staying within the width range of the rim. This is where rims most often fail... when a wider tire is put on, where the width... say 20mm... is at or beyond the limit of the rim and then it's inadvertently over-inflated. Hope this helps.
Tubes?..thats a whole 'nother video
Normally run my tubeless setup at 80-85 ish. The other day I forgot to pump up the tyres before heading out. Almost went back to get the pump but decided to give it a go. Ride felt amazing - quicker and more comfortable.
Checked pressures when I got back 50/front 55/rear. Sold! 👍😃
hell to the ya brother
What some people may not consider is that the lower PSI is also beneficial to preventing fatigue on the bike over long durations. The road chatter experienced using high PSI can be taxing. This season coming I'll be on 30mm tires and likely 60/60 PSI, I am a 85-90kg rider. Right now i run 65/70 PSI on 28mm tires and it's great for all types of riding, also maybe a little tire dependent? I run conti's but have ran Schwalbe in the past which were a MUCH softer tire I found, so didn't run as low of PSI.
Tubeless or with a tube?
Damn Im 58 kilo and run 75 in 28s. Ill try 60 tomorrow
EDIT, I run tubes -___-
Personally, I enjoy the win/win when I went from running 28mm butyl tubed at around 95 psi to 32mm tubeless at 63 psi - better ride quality and higher speeds at equivalent effort.
76 kilos and I run 65 ish in crits, 70 for general riding :p @@jani724
@@jdmcdorce876 I have two set of wheels: 1. "Fast" 56 mm deep with 26c S-Works tyres (to be replaced when worn out by 28c GP5000) and TPU inner tubes. 2. "Adventure" 38mm deep, 30c tyres (GP5000) and butyl tubes. When I have quick rides on well-known smooth roads --> (1). When having long, Z2 rides or to explore unknown areas --> (2). Also these days it's getting more and more windy (fall 😞) so (2) is much more stable.
I weigh about 165. I started lowering pressures when I shifted to road tubeless about five years ago. I started at around 85 F/R and I've gradually been lowering pressures. I've settled on tubeless 28s at 62/65 F/R for about two years now for fast road riding. It feels great in corners, it makes rides less tiring for my hands and I don't think it's any slower. This corroborates that feeling.
Pretty much spot on in what I do, I weigh pretty much the same too. A lot of people still look at me like I'm crazy if I tell them I run 65PSI/4.5 bar. Especially at crits here in the Netherlands. Lots of older conservative guys.
I'm about the same weight and have settled on the same tire pressures.
I had a slow leak last year and an OLD SCHOOL cyclist got in an argument with me when I borrowed his pump on the road. He literally shoved me aside and started furiously pumping air into my tires, trying to hit 95 (which he had marked on his gauge). He kept shouting that I was going to kill myself, while I kept shouting "these are hookless carbon rims," which sounded ridiculous to both of us.
You forgot to mention rider weight. Very different number for a 50kg rider compared to a 100kg rider. You also forgot to mention that best practice is to run lower tire pressure on the front tire. Usually 5 to 10psi. Depending on rider preference. I'm 63kg. I run 62psi front 72psi rear. Latex tubes on narrow 25mm tires. NEVER pinch flat'd in hundreds of thousands of kms. On 28mm tires I'd be down 50psi front. So I suspect for the average 70-75kg rider 60psi would be ideal on 28mm tires, front wheel. Front wheels usually support about 40%-45% of the total weight. Hence the lower pressure. Lower is virtually always better. Riders think harder is faster because it feels faster, because of the increased vibration. It's an illusion. The shaking is wasted energy.
The riders weight is the main factor! That changes everything.
100 percent.
@@noelodwyer that's a lot of "forget to mention"s... so much bike clickbait on youtube..
Your lower pressure front to back makes no sense. Maybe your front wheel supports 45% of the weight when the bike isn't moving, assuming you don't move either. But if you're braking hard, climbing et al then your distribution changes significantly - far more significantly than the differences on a stationary road or gravel bike - it's close enough to 50/50 that it makes no sense at all to use different pressures front to back. In fact the idea you'd have any significant tyre pressure difference because of a 2-5% weight difference makes no sense at all. You're saying 10 psi? Nope. It'd be a couple of psi max and it's very unlikely whatever equipment you'd use to put either 70 or 72 psi in the tyres is measuring the psi accurately enough for you to actually put in a 2 psi difference in the first place. Unless you have purchased digital pressure gauges that have been calibrated. But, as soon as you brake hard then you need to quickly change the psi in the tyres according to your idea the weight distribution matters because now you won't have enough air in the front tyre. Nope, if the weight matters then you'd need sufficient air in the front tyre to handle braking when your weight will transfer to the front to the point where the back tyre has more or less no traction.
Interesting point, You run them extremely low, is this even in the range of pressure recommended by producers? I somewhat agree with energy loss, but it always feels really sluggish to start from full stop and quickly accelerate on low pressure. I noticed that tread pattern, sidewall construction, rubber compound and weight are all factors in how tire performs on lower pressure - I decided to stay away from nylone and hard casing for that reason, they all rolls like brick.
These videos are right up there with Shane Miller's videos. Informative, entertaining and everything explained in a way that I can understand. Keep up the great work Jeff!
i've run 100s of miles on 32mm gp5000s with tubes @ 54F 56R and have yet to pinch flat. only this past year have been experimenting with lower pressures and love it.
What is your weight?
I have the same tires and I am strugling to find what pressure shoulkd i use. There is recomendation to use 85 psi (6bar), but calculators show less. 180 lbs (80kg) is my weight.
Someone mentioned this below, but what seems obvious in the pictures above is that when you are running 60PSI, you are more likely to damage the rim vs 100psi. I once ran over a pothole and it destroyed my front Roval Alu wheel - cracked it. I was using tubulars and probably around 70psi in the front. Yes 90-100 psi is a lot less comfortable but it's more likely to bounce off obstacles than bottom the rim. I have a feeling a carbon wheel would be just a bad if not worse than aluminum when it bottoms out on an obstacle.
Carbon is hard to predict. But I've done horrible horrible things to multiple sets of carbon wheels with np damage.
i myself went down from 85 to 70 over the last year and a half and i liked it very much. your video motivates me to try to go even lower now (i did not cross my mind until now, because of the calculators you mentioned).
great video thank you for it
My tubeless set up for the past year, I'm 6'1", 180 lbs -
30mm GP5000STR tires on 19mm internal WTO's - 60F/65R - Race bike
32mm Maxxis Refuse tires on 25mm internal 303FC's - 47F/57R - All road bike.
Roads are pretty bad where I ride, but I would suggest that all roads everywhere are deteriorating significantly. I think this helps explain the way we used to ride 110 psi 20-30 years ago. Also frames and wheels have become much stiffer.
Internal rim width is a bigger factor that dictates the pressure, followed by tire width. A 28mm tire may measure 30mm on a wider internal rim width and can accommodate more volume thus lowering pressure compared to a narrower internal rim width. This will also affect the squishiness of the tires since the sidewalls are supported better with wider wheels. Was Blaine running the same wheels? Wheels need to be the same for this experiment.
maybe I'm just weird, but I'm running about 75-80psi with my normal 28mm clinchers, non tubeless. Tried 70psi and instantly felt like it was super squishy and unresponsive. haven't tried tubeless though
Next, I'd love to see a similar test comparing 28 to 30s
And 32
and 25 :D@@birdbro1990
And 19s
And 25@@luccaguizz
Why such a small age range?
Amazing video, can you guys do the same for tires with inner tubes. I am still in my old school 25mm conti and would like to see the results you guys achieve. Cheers
Trackrat here: I run 150 in my A-bike's tubulars and 120 in my B-bike's clinchers.
I've never been on a wood surface, but this has worked for me on the outdoor tracks in the midwest.
so i wasn't too far off! thanks for your insight. I assume they run even higher on wood.
My daughter races on wooden tracks - runs 200 - 220 psi on her race wheels with Vittoria Pista tubulars. I know because I pump up the tires - my arm workout for the day 😂
I'm a total amateur (85 kg), don't race, just ride casually on average quality tarmacs and my results improved dramatically when I switched from 70 to 105 PSI. I haven't noticed any differance in comfort, but I ride an endurance frame which might be the reason for that
it's almost certainly less efficient at 105psi unless you're on very smooth tarmac, like brand new pavement. but you're the ultimate judge, just make sure you're within the spec of your equipment, many tubeless tires have a max rating of 100psi
Dry 66psi front, 70psi rear.
Wet 60psi front 65psi rear
28mm Cadex classics on Enve 5.6’s.
A lot of the calculators say 63/66psi for my weight. (86kg/190lbs)
New test - Vittoria tyre inserts. I ride tubeless 30mm Conti GP5000STR (measure 32mm) with Vittoria tyre inserts 32-45psi depending on weather/road surface conditions with a few psi less for front. System weight 75kg.
I do easy training rides on a hard-tail mtb with 38mm tubeless at 44 psi in front and 46 psi in back. I started doing this because it's super comfy and allows me to ride longer with no pain, but the big surprise is that my Strava times are not much slower (1-2 mph usually) than my road bike. My next road bike will definitely have wider, tubeless tires run at lower psi.
CXer over a decade. Used wider road tires and lower pressure for years over rough roads and mixed terrain. Road finally caught up to CX logic with tires.
I'm an average cyclist but since I moved to wider wheel (DT Swiss G1800) which are gravel aluminium wheels and used 30mm tubeless tire with 64 PSI, it makes the ride very comfortable which then allows me to ride faster just a little bit longer without discomfort.
Careful if you've got hookless rims! Max is usually 70odd psi 🙏🏼
Low tire pressure is great until you pinch flat due to low pressure. Yes, you can pinch flat tubeless; the sidewall actually is cut by the rim edge. Have fun with a cut sidewall when out in the middle of a long ride. I prefer 80 to 85 on a normal road surface but run 105 on really crappy roads to avoid pinch flats. And you can have tubeless. What a crock of crap and super hassle. Run latex tubes with sealant; works like a charm. Run pressure to the road surface and ride/race on that day. Also, tubeless tires on non-tubeless rims works well if you don't have a non-tubeless tire. You can have tubeless rims and tubeless tires. Regular rims and tires with latex and sealant are easy to maintain, minimal mess, and make tube changes a breeze if you do flat. Also, be sure to carry a boot in case you cut your tire. You will be able to at least get home. If I were still criterium racing, I would use 23c or 25c and TPU tubes on shallow aero rims. The constant deceleration and acceleration and short hills really take on toll on the legs during a long crit. Larger tires on road races makes sense. 28mm on a crit? You can have the extra weight.
Great topic - but watch for rim damage! Pinch flatted & cracked both rims this year. Ran GP5000 STR & Corso Pros 28mm's on Enve SES 4.5s at Enve's recommended tubeless pressures ~50psi for 143lbs/64kg. Pinch flatted, raised several psi; pinched and chipped front wheel; raised again, pinched and cracked rear wheel, all incidents at ~20 - 30mph on run-of-the-mill potholes similar to the one in the vid. 50psi feels great, but no more. Industry calculators run the gamut for my weight/wheel/tire combo: Enve @50, Sram @59, Silca @68, so no pro consensus on best safe/performing pressure.
Great video, thank you. Key takeaway: the efficiency curve is very flat near recommended pressure, so that you could probably adjust up or down 10-20% to get the ride character you want without really changing efficiency.
Best guess for NorCal: 60-65, on those roads. (70-75psi @ 88kg/194lb currently myself)
Best advice is to purchase a Topeak digital tire pressure gauge for accurate tire pressure. My Specialized pump mechanical gauge was like 20psi low. Oh, and I still run a 23mm on my Roval CLX60 front at 103-106 psi 😊
I always get a chuckle at these old guys stuck in the past running skinny tires and high psi, beating the hell out of their bodies with no benefit.
Wow! This was awesome! Can't thank you enough! I've been running 28mm tires at 115 psi! Not anymore. Next ride will be at 80 psi
Love the video, very fun idea but you should talk about safety a bit more.
Gp5000 28mm have max psi of 94, you should not run them over the recommendation. Second, hookless rims are even lower, usually 80 psi max.
If you want to run super low pressures and not burp while cornering, Vittoria air-liner inserts will add a safety factor if you want to test it out, and also help with high speed flat safety. Id recommend them for anyone going above 80km while descending.
Makes a difference whether you're running clincher or some nice silk-cased tubs at low pressure too
Love all your videos, long time racer now retired from racing. What always made me nervous about low psi was rolling a tire off the rim on a hard corner. Still have nightmares about that! And I had one cyclocross race where I went just too low - I must have crashed 20 times. Couldn't control the bike on corners although those were glue ons so no worry about roll off. Thanks for all your great videos.
Agree. Safety first. Better get bigger tires than lowering the pressure too much.
10 psi on the road. Perfect 👍
Totally, never had a pinch flat in my life.
I prefer to vacuum out there air first and have -10psi
I'd do 10atm
Do you ever run different psi on the bike ? Ex 70 front 75 rear …. I always run a mismatch psi road and mtb.
It also will vary if the wheels are hooked or hookless as the hookless rim tires run on lower preasure than on hooked rims.
Some of us had to get past the mental block of the original 19mm race tires having to be pumped to 120psi to not pinch flat. They were fast, hard, and didnt last at all. Conti came in with 21mm and they looked huge but we still pumped to 110 and just kept that thinking since we road steel bikes with beautiful flexy chrome forks that we could watch flex 1/2 inch over bumps. Carbon frames came about stiff as a board and gave the precise road feel of formula one cars but the problem was chip and seal/rough roads gave wayyyy too much feedback. These newer 28-30mm tires and 77psi pressures feel great to my 56yr old back!!
I'm 6'3" and 190lbs running 25c at 95psi - I tried at 80psi and I was getting pinch flats left and right. Seems I can't go any lower than about 90psi at my weight.
At your size, you would benefit from 28-30mm tyres.
Totally agree here. Only 6’ tall but weight 195# and anything below 105 PSI and back tire feels squishy and both tires are sluggish. Rolling resistance goes to crap. I stay at 110 psi or higher and it works for me. 25mm front and back. I ride a Specialized Roubaix so that allows me to run more narrow tires since the frame does a better job of absorbing the road bumps than a wider tire could.
Riding a Trek Domane, 6'4" 275lbs... 28c, 85PSI and I get one flat or two per year (3000 to 4000km) and they are not pinch flats. The gatorskins are not the best tire for rolling resistance, but for flats they are pretty good.
I got a pretty bad blowout in my rear tire on a rail trail one day, no pump on me but it managed to seal at what felt like, and confirmed later to be 30psi. So now I've got 15miles to go and a group passes me. Guess what, im taking turns doing 30mph on 30psi-28mm tires. Smoothest ride I've ever had!
Past 2 years I've run 25mm tubeless at 60-65psi (125lb rider) with fantastic results. Comfortable, fast, sticks corners and in 2 years only twice have had punctures seal themselves, no total flats.
60f 65 r or are you saying in that range?
@@williambob111 Range, though 60f 65r would be probably be perfect if your gauge is that accurate.
I am a 90 kg sprinter, running tubeless 28c tyres which blow up to 30mm on wide rims. Around 63 psi front and 69 rear is my setup now for 2 or 3 years and it is pretty much perfect for everyday use and mixed roads.
sounds perfect
It took me YEARS to ween myself of very high pressures. My first training and racing was on a the velodrome when I was young (in the '90s), because it was only a few km from my parents' place. I didn't even know what criteriums were. Even though it was a not-so-smooth Plexipave surface, everyone pumped their tubulars up to over 160psi! So, I later took this thinking to my road training and criterium racing.
In the '90s, 20mm clinchers were the norm, and some people used 18mm. I put at least 140psi in all my 20mm clinchers. I rode mostly on good roads. When 23mm tyres became the norm, I went around town buying all the 18s and 20s! 😀 I eventually switched to 23s (big difference; I should've switched much sooner), but I still put about 130 in the rear and 110 in the front (I was well over 80kg then). Anyway, after all these years, I'm down to about 100 rear and 90 front. How INTERESTING!! 😀
How much does each rider weigh? This is key to set up.
correct tire pressures on average surfaces in the dry; 2-3psi above first sign of squirm during fastest/hardest cornering. 6psi softer in the front tire.
I'm that oddball on a recumbent bike. ;) Been running 44mm tires at 40psi for quite awhile now. Just as fast and definitely comfy.
Tested my pressures over the past couple years for tubeless and landed on 60 psi for 25mm. Looking to get 28mm tires next time I need to replace and potentially go a little lower. I weigh around 160-165 lbs.
How wide is the inner section of your wheels?
And if rene herse is to be believed, you can go even larger on the tires. I don't race, but I went from 28mm/100psi to 35mm/65psi (tubed) on my endurance road bike. Far more comfort & stability without the loss of any speed. No pinch flat problems either--just thorn flat problems.
I run 65 rear and 60 front on 28mm S TRs (75kg). It feels comfortable and fast. This has convinced me to try even lower since I don't race.
I'm 73-75 too and run 3,8 bar front and 4 bar back on 28mm Pro One, which apparently is rougly 54psi and 58psi
@@Domenic-u6b that’s what I’m going to try next. Lower by 5psi
im wanting to try that on my 25mmgp5000's im 73
i've been doing chill endurance rides at 55 front 60 rear and intend to continue base season at those pressures, maybe even slightly lower.
@@NorCalCycling Did 30 miles on 60/55 and it was smooth as butter.
I have been surfing the low end of the pressure range for awhile and knew it felt better overall. Didn't really seem significantly slower. Thanks for demonstrating that there's actually no penalty at all, and it's just limited by handling!
Time for some inserts on the road bike Jeff... 40psi, inserts.... doooo it. do it! hahah. On the MTB I run 13psi up front in a 2.35 tire, and 13.5 rear with a 2.25 tire, rear does have an insert though as I dont enjoy hearing the rim ping when I am at speed. I am 86kg.
High pressure with special suspension (like on earlier Moulton bikes) works fine.
I do 72 psi back tire, 65 psi in the front tire. Easily handle corners. I feel the comfort but still can push the pace!
I have a wheelset with an internal width of 29mm which I run 32mm GP5k STRs - making them measure 35.5mm. Riding them at 60 PSI is soooo buttery smooth and faster than my other wheels with 25mms at 80 PSI.
The wider tires cornering is also much better. People look at them like "Wtf" but they're super comfy and very fast in my Strava segment watt/speed comparison with other tires I've used.
Wheels are 3T Discus 45|40, so 29mm internal, 40 external, so up to 38mm wide slicks still are within "the rule of 105".
that's a good setup. you could probably run ever lower pressure with that wide of tires, depending on your weight
Love this video. I just did a similar test recently with the same results. I’m now thinking about going to 32’s and running 50psi. Currently on 28’s at 55/58psi.
I'm 180 lbs and run my 28mm gp5000's with tpu tubes at 79 psi back and 76 front, they feel great for my weight.
Try going down more. Comfort really pops off in the 60’s. 👍
@@radtony1720 I'll give it a try, a little worried about the tpu tubes on very low psi, still worth the shot.
Actually, yeah with tubes you’re probably right. Get rid of them and then try 60’s. I switched from butyl, to latex, to tubeless myself in about 6 months. Don’t know why I waited so long. Tubeless is great. Enjoy!
I have a hard rock disk run 2.5 hookworm at 45 works great
152 pounds, i run 60/63 in both my latex tubed 28mm tires, and my tubeless 28mm tires (same brand/model, just the T model). I can go lower but the bike feels splashy. It never did anything weird, it just felt like it didn't respond to a dip into a corner as fast as I'd like, and if I came out of a corner, and went right back to upright (say like a sprint out of a corner), it felt splashy there too. Basically sudden changes upset the feel. I ended up doing exactly what you suggested and those numbers seemed about right for me.
I have a hybrid bike in the Trek Dual sport 4 from 2021 with 700c by 40mm and I find between 45-60 is optimal for me. I have it currently at 55 in the back and 47 in the front. I may suggest trying a slightly lower pressure in the front sense it does not have all of the body weight over it. You maybe able to get away with 50 PSI in the front without compromising safety.
If you go too low you may get pinch flat even on a wider tire. Note if you run a 23 at say 90 pounds and a 28 at say 80 the 28 may be harder as there is more air underneath you and thus more rigidity, certainly if both tires are riding at say 90 then the 23 will give a gentler ride and more pinch flats. Wider is only more gentler if you let out enough air. In the old days we rode wide tires on bigger rims and they were slow because they were so hard to accelerate, that is why 23 and high pressure won out, high pressure required to avoid pinch flats
I run TPU tubes and one of the biggest disadvantages is that they are way more prone to pinch flats than butyl. i think 70 psi is the lower limit but of course if you're riding on bumpy roads over the day then the psi will drop so I personally have them at 80psi before going out.
On a good note though they haven't given me any other punchers other than two pinch flats.
How much do you weigh and what size tires you're running?
@@richeeg3271 Good question. 25mm front 28mm back. Only the front got the pinch punctures. I'm 73kg depending on if I had breakfast :D
@@richeeg3271 I suspect when I had the punctures my front tire was hovering around 60 psi. I was being lazy checking the pressure. I've found since that if I have the tire at 80psi after 5 days and a few hundred kms the tire has lost 20 psi
@@thomasullmann7447 Just had my front pinch flat last night on a TPU tube at about 70 psi on 28mm tires. Not sure if it was bad luck, bad tube, or I need to raise the pressure a bit like you have. I'm 73kg too.
I'm 154 with Hed Ardenne clinchers ( 25) and run just under 70 psi, which is about what they recommend and have been doing it for 10 years. Our roads are pretty good here but with occasional rough areas and never a pinch flat
50 feels like a bit of squish when sprinting uphill as well. I have kept mine around 63 psi at 145 lbs and 28 mm tire and been happy with that. On my commuter I run 34mm tires at 45 psi and man is it a plush ride.
The high pressure on a wider tyre chatters much more than a thinner tyre, because the contact patch is so much wider. Because a bump is introduced "across the tyre", there is already more tyre to exert force against it, resulting in less deformation. A 23mm at 100psi will feel plush compared to 28/30mm at 100psi
With all respect there is one more point to be added. If you use a very supple tyre e.g. Vittoria N.EXT, running tyre pressure under 80psi can increase your chances of getting pinch flats depending on your rim design. I was getting continuous pinch flats until I increased my tyre pressure to 80psi every time I hit a small rock or pot hole. Just sharing info.
72 psi with tubes! As a mechanic, I hate the mess. I'll run tubeless all day long on my mtn bike at super low psi. But, for high psi road, 70 to 75 is the multi-point sweetspot for the following: no worry about loose tolerance fit for possible bad seal, no gooey mess, less tire change time, grip, comfort, and no snake bite pinch flats. Haven't had one yet at this psi (pinch flat). The half pound of weight (tubes) is silly to worry about when tubes negate three of the listed advantages (or disadvantages of messy sealant). If you research and pay attention to tread thickness and puncture resistance of newly purchased tires and you inspect consistently... road debris is no more of a hassle either.
I run 30c on a 25mm internal rim and they measure to 33.1 mm, which seems huge, but running those at 60/58 they feel faster and more comfortable than any other wheel/tire I’ve felt. Cornering they feel incredible as well. Strongly recommend
I'm running 30mm tires too, and I dig it.
170 lbs with 30mm Tubeless at 70 psi. Will try 65 psi next time.
I fully agree...last time I ran on about 50psi (cause I didn't check the tire pressure) hardly any diffence on rolling resistance on tubeless tires just a little bit to squishy...for me 70 to 75 is perfect (I'm a heavier rider than you)...but doesn't work on normal clinchers which I have on my other bike..lower is slower seems to be the rule
I tried experimenting with the tire pressure on my fixed gear bike. What I noticed is I have to pedal harder on lower psi (50-60psi) and I was coasting with little force applied on the pedal at higher psi (70-80psi). My weight is 72kg with 23c tires both rear and front. Mind that my area is hilly and I tested the pressure on an inclines (doesn't have a choice)
How low can you go with a tube, and does that change if it's Butyl, TPU or Latex?
I have the same questions.
The silca pro tyre calculator is very good guide... ive used it for race day tyre (w-tube) pressures...
I think the 60s is the sweet spot. Here is what I run.
Front 28mm / 62psi
Rear 30mm / 64psi
157lbs
With tube or tubeless?
@@rayc9793 We wouldn’t even be having this convo with tubes.
@@Nowayfrrrrrrr dunno, I would use something like the SRAM or Silca calculator, there are too many variables to consider: internal rim width, bike and rider weight, tire width…
Hi NorCal, I just purchased a new set of Zipp 303 Firecrest hookless rims for a Cervelo Soloist. Living in CO I was looking for an all around wheelset (replacing Reserve 40/44 76/176 hub) primarily for paved road riding, on flats & rollers, with an occasional off road / hard packed dirt farm road (think Old Fall River Road in RMNP). I plan on following Zipp’s compliance standards (Less than 73 psi, tires greater than 28mm, & following the hookless tire compatibility.
Question: 1) Following De Gendt’s crash and the UCI’s investigation into the safety of hookless; what has been your experience with riding & racing hookless tires on paved & hard pack dirt roads, any tires blowing off the rims. And 2) Could you rank the following tires 30mm: Sworks Turbo 2BR 2T/5T, Schwalbe Pro One TLE and GP 5000 AS TR. As a newbie to hookless rims I’m trying to determine if this is the right move.
Thanks for all you do
Ride the roads in Sonoma and report back, Sonoma has some of the worst road biking roads I've experienced. I tried going lower which felt great but mushy feelings in high speed corners, pot holes and rocks on road made me increase the pressure on the high end, though I am riding a steel bike so not to bad.
I'm new to cycling, I'm a 6' guy weighing about 105kgs and I'm worried about the amount of air to be pumped in the tires. what would be the good range for a daily commute hybrid cycle (Bergamot Sweep 3I). Tires - Kenda Kadence, 32-622 with Kenda tubes.
there is the factor of vulnarability to punctures, according to tyre pressure, also the lower the psi, the more wear on the tyre, it seems.
I've (75kg) been riding 32/30s @ 60ish for 2 years now... it's sublime. Especially on 25mm internal rim width, its still very aero as well.
60 psi on 30-32mm tyres is actually not that low. I run 25mm tyres at 50 psi in the wet!
@@richardmiddleton7770 that is pretty low!
im 58kg always been using 50 psi GP5000TL and I'm flying and it is also so comfortable to the point that I didn't really feel anything after 5hrs of continues ride.
I have been doing 28s for years, I was at 50psi with tubes for a few years but I would get like 4 pinch flats a year. Now I run tubes at 70 and tubeless for race day at 60-65.
Hey Jeff, once again please remember to weight yourself before every run to keep it equal. I have done the same in the past and between these runs one could easily lose 1-2 punds through sweat depending on the day.
I'm running 28's tubed at 70 pounds pressure on my ENVE 4/5's with no pinch flats. I weigh 182 and they feel great.
I used to cycle a lot in the 1980s. I hung my bike in the shed for nearly 40 years. Came back to completely restore her - fresh tyres and tubes, and noticed today's tubes and tyres were now at double the pressure they were from the 1980s on the same bike! Bananas 🤔
I'm 150lbs, I do 80psi in the back and 75psi in front. This is with Conti 25 with tubes.
Me too, exact same numbers. The new gp5000's this year were so hard to mount on a 700x25 wheel.
"...I'm old school and started out on 23c tires..." LOL! You are making me feel old. I was running 18c and 20c tires back in the day. They were pumped up to ridiculous pressures. My first new, full on race bike was a Cannondale. It was jarring to say the least.
15 years ago, I rode 85 psi / 6 bar in my 23mm tires, and it worked very well. I don't get it that people still refer to the good ol' days when riders would start races with 120 psi. That never happened over here unless it was perfect smooth asphalt. Pro riders I know raced in the 90s with tubulars (23mm) at 80-85 psi. Go figure how 'late' most were with simply reducing tire pressure, even on 23mm.
I’ve recently went to tubeless and airliners, on my Canyon CFR, running 28mm tire at 65/70 f/r and big difference from running around 80 psi, smoother ride, much more comfortable. Those glasses are fire, what kind are they? I love the rainbow reflection on the lenses.
I used to ride as a junior at 150 lbs with my tire pressure at max recommended. I rode today with my pressure at 120 rear and 110 front. I think I jarred some of my brain cells out today. Going back to around 80 psi.
I was able to pass a bunch of people in a sportive I did recently because I was able to soak up some bad road on my 32s at 60psi. Granted, I don't race, but still, comfort wins
Thanks you for the video. It reminded me when we tried 150PSI on Conti 20mm tires back in 1998. My ass still hurts.
Thanks for the test. Tire pressure keeps me busy. I probably missed something. But what tire width were you riding, 25, 28 ore 30. And what is your weight. Thanks
For more context, what rims were you guys using? What internal width? Hooked or hookless?
reserve 40/44 and blaine was on clx50s. both hooked.
Can you measure pressure increase over time (ex. the first 10min of a hot ride), for your preferred pressure? Ive always been curious, and its noticble on mtb rides, particularly those which start early, in cooler condition.
I am new to road biking.
I am 255 lb on a Norco CRR3 I don't have a clue except tryout different psi rates
great data and great video as always!. how much do each of you guys weigh? that's a pretty big factor in where everyone's individual sweet spot is
Good question! I'm about 161lbs, blaine is around 170 i think. sry for freedom units
Having just done a road race @35psi because I didnt check beforehand, its more than that. 50 to 60 seems like a sweet spot
Conti str 28, 19.4mm id hookless
In a few of the clips in your vid, you showed the wheel going into a significant pothole. I live in pothole country! Is there a risk with 50psi and rim damage if the tire compresses and the edge of a nasty pothole makes contact with the rim ?
Thanks for the video, very interesting. What does the tire producer say, sometimes there's a minimum tire pressure. Do you go below this minimum?
lower pressure only if you ride on shitty roads or want comfort. On roads with great surface, it becomes slower
did you not look at the data?
@cornishcat11 apparently he didn't lol, wtf
@@cornishcat11 data is out a long time ago and is made by experts inside a velodrome not on puclic roads.. It all depends on your physical condition and the condition you are riding on. There is no perfect number for every day ride
@@mikpiotto try to go 50 psi inside a velodrome vs 100 psi. You will loose . Science
@@riverhunterquebec "made by experts inside a velodrome not on puclic roads". WRONG.
The pressure in the tyres should probably be adjusted depending on the the amount of weight on each tyre. At a guess I'd call the weight balance at 55% on the rear and 45% on the front. Based on that I'd suggest maybe run 75psi on the rear and 60psi on the front. Through your hands and arms is where you are going to feel most of the roughness and if the front tyre can be run at a lower pressure then that's what I'd do.
Personally I run 120psi at the rear and 100psi on the front on 25mm tyres and a lot more kg than Jeff is.
15psi F/R pressure differential is unnecessarily high. with 28-30mm tires, 6-7psi differential is the sweet spot.
low pressure feels slow to me. I do 65-70 on the back and 60-65 on the front. Higher psi on flat smooth roads with deep wheels is addictive.
Depends how supple your tires are, if road is really smooth the theory is more pressure is better (per GCN)