Yeees! I have been waiting for since it was announced. There was some concern that we weren’t going to hear from you, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you needed a week to sit with the new set. You have always been my go to guys for Sabbath, your approval of the new set is a pre-requisite for my continued enjoyment of it😅. Looking forward to sitting down with a coffee to watch this.
Hi guys …my go to podcast for all things Black Sabbath ! Thank you for doing these shows. I bought the cd version of this boxset . I already had a remaster vinyl copy and two remastered cd versions . The remix was what I was after and I love it ! It sounds spectacular . It’s like a brand new live album ! Fantastic ! The book is great in the set along with the other add ons. Excellent review ! Thank you . Chez
I have the CD version of this Live Evil SDE. I love the remix, and I agree with all the comments I've seen that say the album should have sounded like this from the get-go (as far as 1982 technology would have allowed). At last, it sounds big and powerful, the way this album, this band, this music, deserves. I made similar comments on the Steve Hoffman forums, because I joined that site a couple of months ago specifically to be able to take part in the Live Evil discussion! I agree with the notion that there's some different takes. Children of the Sea is obviously different, because Ronnie says "and" before "we thought that it could never end," but doesn't say it on the original. Children of the Grave is a new vocal, I think the comment on the Hoffman forums that the music is the same is true. This means the original took the music from one performance, and grafted on the vocal from another. What you're hearing in other songs, John, is the original guitar, which was overdubbed, or covered with bits from other performances, in certain parts. Most obviously, the second half of NIB was modified on the original album. So was the last 90 seconds or so of Voodoo. About Geoff Nicholls and the keyboards...Ronnie had claimed the keyboards were mostly re-done in the studio. The Portland show makes it clear the keyboards were fully present on this tour. But Iommi is quoted in the book that comes with the Live Evil SDE as saying that perhaps they should have worked with a real producer, because the band was pretty clueless about things like microphone placement for live recording. Specifically, they forgot to mic the audience, but I suspect Nicholls wasn't properly mic'ed either. So the keyboards were added in the studio for the original mix, but this remix works with the source recordings, and there simply isn't much keyboard captured (the audience was probably beefed up to make them seem more present, while the music was kept authentic). This Live Evil SDE seems to be getting an enthusiastic response, from those who acquire it, for the remix. I see others gripe about the price, which is really high in Europe. Hopefully those who can't (or won't) afford it still get to enjoy the remix in one way or another. It's absolutely my go-to version from now on. What's next? Well, a SDE of The Last in Line is in the works, and Born Again is supposed to get a remix, now that the original tapes have been found. I wouldn't be surprised if Dehumanizer gets a remix at some point, perhaps it and Born Again can get SDEs.
Yeap the remix is fantastic. Great review guys. And John..I too would LOVE to see all the albums receive the super deluxe treatment. It really does seems though that they are done with Ozzy box sets. Though its Sabbath and you never know. As I’ve mentioned a few times, I’m sure I read Iommi saying there wasn’t enough material to do the MOR box set, but since cannot find that article. He also said thats why they did the RSD colored release a couple of years back as a 50th celebration. I then noticed they have done the same with the debut album, SBS and NSD (the ones which don’t have box sets). This might mean there are no plans for them. They do have material though, as we saw with the deluxe releases a few years back. I guess if they are sub-par releases people will complain, but I’d love to seem them as SDEs. Born again could be next, and then of course the Tony Martin box set has been confirmed for this year.
Great discussion, as always! As you guys mentioned, the SHF is buzzing with a lot of back and forth. I chimed in there, I'm just going to cut and paste what I wrote on that forum here in the comments ... - - - I am well familiar with this record from my youth. I am not going to go into it's relative merit, or whether Ronnie sucks on the Ozzy songs, or whatever. I make no excuses, I have a nostalgic affection for this recording. Along with Speak Of The Devil this double-live album is an essential part of my youth. Here's a few completely subjective thoughts on the remix, on vinyl: 1. The mastering is quiet, compared to most modern vinyl at an rate. I definitely have it cranked higher to get the same oomph as my original, or even the new remaster. That said, the vinyl has little embed surface noise (a more and more common lament, sadly) and plays clean. No complaints there, other than volume. 2. Is it brickwalled? Maybe, but being live it is hard to fault it for the dynamics -- live albums are often thick and lacking in the far end of the lows and highs. If I was down front at this show I would have come out of it thinking they sounded pretty phenomenal. The remix is very different, sonically. It definitely sounds more LIVE. As in in-your-face live, if that is your preference. Take it or leave it. It doesn't have the (detracting) polished sound of, say, a live album like Exit Stage Left, but it is remixed to definitely have a BIGGER stadium sound. The overall sound reminds me of how they sounded live when they reunited, before Ronnie's passing, if that is any sort of comparison. 3. Ronnie sounds fantastic. His voice is perfectly placed in the mix, warm and up front but not distractingly so. I am, as so often happens whenever I listen to anything with RJD, reminded of what an incredible vocalist he is. His voice is considerably more reverby in this remix, more than it is on the original for sure, but imho it lends to the live ambiance. 3. Iommi also sounds fantastic, his guitar is warm and chunky and his unique guitar tone is very present throughout. Solos sound electrifying, testament to the guitar god he is. Someone said they thought the remix gave Tony's tone a quality more akin to the Ozzy era, and I agree that is the case here. The truth is that Martin Birch got something unique out of Tony's guitar on Heaven And Hell and Mob Rules, and it has never been managed again -- in studio or live. Consider that a testament to Birch's massive talent as a producer. If you want Tony to sound BIG, this remix is for you. On the original record he's a shredding gatling gun ... here he is a thundering panzer tank. 4. I'm here for the bass, Geezer Butler is my favourite bass player of all time. This remix does not disappoint, he sounds f*cking incredible. Huge, fat, and heavy. I've seen Geezer live many times, and this is quite akin to how he sounds in concert from the floors. BIG! 5. Those drums. Those goddamn drums. Why do these remixes always endeavour to make them sound more modern?? Appice sounds ridiculous here, all punched-in-the-chest kick drum and HUGE snare, plus thundering toms that often get jumbled together. He sounds infinitely better on the remaster (and, frankly, the original), just compare his drum solo on the remix to the remaster -- no contest. I am VERY fussy about how a snare sounds, and the drums just mostly sound silly on the remix. Not Bobby Chouinard silly, but just big and dumb and lumbering. Easily the WORST thing about the remix. I can only guess that Wyn Davis was following someone's orders. 6. Like the other Sabbath box sets, the packaging is pretty great. As a professional designer I buy these boxes, in part, for the whole package. The book is terrific (and yes, the vinyl box book is shorter in page count than the cd, only because of the text point size ... I chalk up any dissent about that fact as simply lack of familiarity in regards to the needs and restrictions of design real estate, proper use of negative space, and other dorky demands). A lot of thought went into the book, it's full colour and packed with photos, memorabilia, essays, and liner notes. You get a faithful reproduction of the original gatefold for the remaster and a new design layout for the remix gatefold. Other swag is fine, tho much of it reproduced in the book as well. Conclusion: I venture the remix will absolutely have it's fans -- mostly younger people who will find it sounds more like metal from the last 30+ years. And it will definitely have it's detractors: audiophiles who will find just reason to pull it apart. I fall somewhere in the middle; I mostly give the remix a pass as it's a live album and the remix sounds VERY live. (The qualities I can live with here are not, for example, ones I could acquiesce to on the remix of Holy Diver. Not to open that can of worms ...). When I first read the box was going to be two versions of the same album it felt like a bit of a cash grab. I can say that the two versions are quite different, sonically, and warranted. I for one was happy to not pay again for the full Hammersmith show, which I already own on both the full 3-disc as well as the portions that appeared on the deluxe versions of Heaven And Hell and Mob Rules. Look, man: I'm older, I remember the album my 14-year-old self loved, and as such I will likely reach for the remaster as often as not. But if you are a Sabbath fan, adding this to your collection is a no brainer -- you know it deserves a place among the others. And the remix does work, aside from those ridiculous drums.
If you listen to E5150 on the original release, it was cut shorter going into neon knights but on the remix it's the whole piece of E5150 and there is also some little bits of Ronnie's vocals that were not there before..
My cd copy this arrived yesterday guys excellent. Great point John about having RJD on the cover . Always jarred with me . Was it Ozzy not being happy with Ronnie singing the old Black Sabbath songs?
I hope they put out a stand alone of the remix or a double disc version like the dio and whitesnake remixes cause this is expensive for me to get just for the remix
I've already ordered mine to be sent here to Bolivia, I hope it is worth the wait and the money. Should we expect to get other boxes from Ozzy's era and Tony Martin's?
I've always had the opinion that the Ozzy period is done. The previous sets were actually released in order, so the first album, Masters, SBS and NSD won't be released, probably due to lack of material. Same with HAH and MR. There's been plenty of live stuff from them already. Hoping for BA and then I'm done, no interest in the catalogue after that.
@@darinmccloskey9906 Good to hear. No, I haven't read it, I tend not to read musician's biographies/autobiographies to be honest ( thus far I've only bothered with Peter Gabriel and Rob Halford), but Geezer has always struck me as being an interesting character, and I must admit I'm tempted to give it a go.
I usually get the vinyl for big releases, but I wanted to hear both versions, remastered and remix before committing. So, I bought the CD box set and listened to both. I was not impressed with the remaster at all whenb compared to the remix. Do you think it possible that they will release the remix as a stand alone on vinyl, because If I get the vinyl box set, I would only look at the cover for the remaster with the original cover. There is no way I wouldbwaist my time actually playing the remaster vinyl when the remix is so much better. They did it for Holy Diver from cd box set to putting live concert on vinyl for RSD. So, still up in the air about wether to get the vinyl box set or not.
Live......U couldn't really hear Geoff.....I went to all those tours.....I was a budding musician & I'm now a producer. And we didn't care. U could basically just hear him in his main parts. All good. I have listened to this new mix.....Love it. Are there some things I hear that could have been done? Yup. & great point regarding the different "takes", I hear that as well. This in NOT the exact same tracks, per song. I hear new tracks......Cheers!!
The pre box Live Evil is a great performance but horrible muffled low volume sound. I ordered the cd box, coming next week. I hope it blows away the original.
Sorry to say. The Remix by Wyn Davis is fine and nice, but was butchered by Chris Gehringer Mastering. Is was compressed and limited do death, NO dynamic range, just a thick/block of squashed sonic bomb to headache and ear fatigue. Such a shame. (Dynamic range compression or simply compression is an audio signal processing operation that reduces the volume of loud sounds or amplifies quiet sounds, thus reducing or compressing an audio signal's dynamic range.) Listen to "Children of the Sea" as example. The track begins with Ronnie vocals VERY loud and when all the band enter, all sound small, reduced, chushed and constrict. No impact. No dynamic at all. *I'm talking about digital versions and CDs, not Vinyl. I can't say how it sounds on Vinyl. I don't know If they sent Chris Gehringer mastering to Chris Bellman lacquer cut.
I talk about how much I hate over compressed music all the time, I think the loudness wars har ruined many a good album. I have the vinyl but there is an Apple Digital Master Version on Apple Music which is not as compressed, it's also in hi-res audio.
@@DBTdadguess I will pull the trigger and get this boxset since the remix is good and superior to the original. Cos I had the original lp and sold it cos I don't like the sound of it.
Sabbath bloody Sabbath 50th anniversary this year!
(Uk)
Yeees! I have been waiting for since it was announced. There was some concern that we weren’t going to hear from you, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you needed a week to sit with the new set. You have always been my go to guys for Sabbath, your approval of the new set is a pre-requisite for my continued enjoyment of it😅. Looking forward to sitting down with a coffee to watch this.
We knew we had to make a video on this on box set, we couldn't hold back our opinions...haha
Hi guys …my go to podcast for all things Black Sabbath ! Thank you for doing these shows. I bought the cd version of this boxset . I already had a remaster vinyl copy and two remastered cd versions . The remix was what I was after and I love it ! It sounds spectacular . It’s like a brand new live album ! Fantastic ! The book is great in the set along with the other add ons. Excellent review ! Thank you . Chez
I have the CD version of this Live Evil SDE. I love the remix, and I agree with all the comments I've seen that say the album should have sounded like this from the get-go (as far as 1982 technology would have allowed). At last, it sounds big and powerful, the way this album, this band, this music, deserves.
I made similar comments on the Steve Hoffman forums, because I joined that site a couple of months ago specifically to be able to take part in the Live Evil discussion!
I agree with the notion that there's some different takes. Children of the Sea is obviously different, because Ronnie says "and" before "we thought that it could never end," but doesn't say it on the original. Children of the Grave is a new vocal, I think the comment on the Hoffman forums that the music is the same is true. This means the original took the music from one performance, and grafted on the vocal from another. What you're hearing in other songs, John, is the original guitar, which was overdubbed, or covered with bits from other performances, in certain parts. Most obviously, the second half of NIB was modified on the original album. So was the last 90 seconds or so of Voodoo.
About Geoff Nicholls and the keyboards...Ronnie had claimed the keyboards were mostly re-done in the studio. The Portland show makes it clear the keyboards were fully present on this tour. But Iommi is quoted in the book that comes with the Live Evil SDE as saying that perhaps they should have worked with a real producer, because the band was pretty clueless about things like microphone placement for live recording. Specifically, they forgot to mic the audience, but I suspect Nicholls wasn't properly mic'ed either. So the keyboards were added in the studio for the original mix, but this remix works with the source recordings, and there simply isn't much keyboard captured (the audience was probably beefed up to make them seem more present, while the music was kept authentic).
This Live Evil SDE seems to be getting an enthusiastic response, from those who acquire it, for the remix. I see others gripe about the price, which is really high in Europe. Hopefully those who can't (or won't) afford it still get to enjoy the remix in one way or another. It's absolutely my go-to version from now on. What's next? Well, a SDE of The Last in Line is in the works, and Born Again is supposed to get a remix, now that the original tapes have been found. I wouldn't be surprised if Dehumanizer gets a remix at some point, perhaps it and Born Again can get SDEs.
Remix is amazing!!!!!
I’d say remix every album ever released if it can improve like this one! Makes the original Live Evil sound like it’s under water. Wow!
Yeap the remix is fantastic. Great review guys. And John..I too would LOVE to see all the albums receive the super deluxe treatment. It really does seems though that they are done with Ozzy box sets. Though its Sabbath and you never know. As I’ve mentioned a few times, I’m sure I read Iommi saying there wasn’t enough material to do the MOR box set, but since cannot find that article. He also said thats why they did the RSD colored release a couple of years back as a 50th celebration. I then noticed they have done the same with the debut album, SBS and NSD (the ones which don’t have box sets). This might mean there are no plans for them. They do have material though, as we saw with the deluxe releases a few years back. I guess if they are sub-par releases people will complain, but I’d love to seem them as SDEs. Born again could be next, and then of course the Tony Martin box set has been confirmed for this year.
That’s true. Come on Sabbath!
Great show as always guys. I have a feeling they are done with the Ozzy era. Tony Martin boxset and Born Again will be the next projects imo.
It's expensive yes but it's the curse of The Collector.
Great discussion, as always! As you guys mentioned, the SHF is buzzing with a lot of back and forth. I chimed in there, I'm just going to cut and paste what I wrote on that forum here in the comments ...
- - -
I am well familiar with this record from my youth. I am not going to go into it's relative merit, or whether Ronnie sucks on the Ozzy songs, or whatever. I make no excuses, I have a nostalgic affection for this recording. Along with Speak Of The Devil this double-live album is an essential part of my youth.
Here's a few completely subjective thoughts on the remix, on vinyl:
1. The mastering is quiet, compared to most modern vinyl at an rate. I definitely have it cranked higher to get the same oomph as my original, or even the new remaster. That said, the vinyl has little embed surface noise (a more and more common lament, sadly) and plays clean. No complaints there, other than volume.
2. Is it brickwalled? Maybe, but being live it is hard to fault it for the dynamics -- live albums are often thick and lacking in the far end of the lows and highs. If I was down front at this show I would have come out of it thinking they sounded pretty phenomenal. The remix is very different, sonically. It definitely sounds more LIVE. As in in-your-face live, if that is your preference. Take it or leave it. It doesn't have the (detracting) polished sound of, say, a live album like Exit Stage Left, but it is remixed to definitely have a BIGGER stadium sound. The overall sound reminds me of how they sounded live when they reunited, before Ronnie's passing, if that is any sort of comparison.
3. Ronnie sounds fantastic. His voice is perfectly placed in the mix, warm and up front but not distractingly so. I am, as so often happens whenever I listen to anything with RJD, reminded of what an incredible vocalist he is. His voice is considerably more reverby in this remix, more than it is on the original for sure, but imho it lends to the live ambiance.
3. Iommi also sounds fantastic, his guitar is warm and chunky and his unique guitar tone is very present throughout. Solos sound electrifying, testament to the guitar god he is. Someone said they thought the remix gave Tony's tone a quality more akin to the Ozzy era, and I agree that is the case here. The truth is that Martin Birch got something unique out of Tony's guitar on Heaven And Hell and Mob Rules, and it has never been managed again -- in studio or live. Consider that a testament to Birch's massive talent as a producer. If you want Tony to sound BIG, this remix is for you. On the original record he's a shredding gatling gun ... here he is a thundering panzer tank.
4. I'm here for the bass, Geezer Butler is my favourite bass player of all time. This remix does not disappoint, he sounds f*cking incredible. Huge, fat, and heavy. I've seen Geezer live many times, and this is quite akin to how he sounds in concert from the floors. BIG!
5. Those drums. Those goddamn drums. Why do these remixes always endeavour to make them sound more modern?? Appice sounds ridiculous here, all punched-in-the-chest kick drum and HUGE snare, plus thundering toms that often get jumbled together. He sounds infinitely better on the remaster (and, frankly, the original), just compare his drum solo on the remix to the remaster -- no contest. I am VERY fussy about how a snare sounds, and the drums just mostly sound silly on the remix. Not Bobby Chouinard silly, but just big and dumb and lumbering. Easily the WORST thing about the remix. I can only guess that Wyn Davis was following someone's orders.
6. Like the other Sabbath box sets, the packaging is pretty great. As a professional designer I buy these boxes, in part, for the whole package. The book is terrific (and yes, the vinyl box book is shorter in page count than the cd, only because of the text point size ... I chalk up any dissent about that fact as simply lack of familiarity in regards to the needs and restrictions of design real estate, proper use of negative space, and other dorky demands). A lot of thought went into the book, it's full colour and packed with photos, memorabilia, essays, and liner notes. You get a faithful reproduction of the original gatefold for the remaster and a new design layout for the remix gatefold. Other swag is fine, tho much of it reproduced in the book as well.
Conclusion:
I venture the remix will absolutely have it's fans -- mostly younger people who will find it sounds more like metal from the last 30+ years. And it will definitely have it's detractors: audiophiles who will find just reason to pull it apart. I fall somewhere in the middle; I mostly give the remix a pass as it's a live album and the remix sounds VERY live. (The qualities I can live with here are not, for example, ones I could acquiesce to on the remix of Holy Diver. Not to open that can of worms ...).
When I first read the box was going to be two versions of the same album it felt like a bit of a cash grab. I can say that the two versions are quite different, sonically, and warranted. I for one was happy to not pay again for the full Hammersmith show, which I already own on both the full 3-disc as well as the portions that appeared on the deluxe versions of Heaven And Hell and Mob Rules.
Look, man: I'm older, I remember the album my 14-year-old self loved, and as such I will likely reach for the remaster as often as not. But if you are a Sabbath fan, adding this to your collection is a no brainer -- you know it deserves a place among the others. And the remix does work, aside from those ridiculous drums.
Great points and interesting insights Greg!
I remember reading your post on the SHF forum, all great points!
@@darinmccloskey9906 ... Thanks, mate!
@@LairoftheAlchemist ... Thanks, mate!
If you listen to E5150 on the original release, it was cut shorter going into neon knights but on the remix it's the whole piece of E5150 and there is also some little bits of Ronnie's vocals that were not there before..
I never noticed that, thanks for pointing it out.
I have the CD version. It went on No. 45 in Germany.
My cd copy this arrived yesterday guys excellent.
Great point John about having RJD on the cover .
Always jarred with me .
Was it Ozzy not being happy with Ronnie singing the old Black Sabbath songs?
I hope they put out a stand alone of the remix or a double disc version like the dio and whitesnake remixes cause this is expensive for me to get just for the remix
The biggest problem with the Live Evil box set is this; there are no new and previously unreleased performances. NONE! That’s the problem.
I've already ordered mine to be sent here to Bolivia, I hope it is worth the wait and the money. Should we expect to get other boxes from Ozzy's era and Tony Martin's?
I've always had the opinion that the Ozzy period is done. The previous sets were actually released in order, so the first album, Masters, SBS and NSD won't be released, probably due to lack of material. Same with HAH and MR. There's been plenty of live stuff from them already. Hoping for BA and then I'm done, no interest in the catalogue after that.
Will you be going to have a bit of a chat about Geezer's book? Hope so.
Yes. It's on schedule for this weeks Sabbath Sunday. :)
Loved it! Have you read it?
@@darinmccloskey9906 Good to hear. No, I haven't read it, I tend not to read musician's biographies/autobiographies to be honest ( thus far I've only bothered with Peter Gabriel and Rob Halford), but Geezer has always struck me as being an interesting character, and I must admit I'm tempted to give it a go.
I usually get the vinyl for big releases, but I wanted to hear both versions, remastered and remix before committing. So, I bought the CD box set and listened to both. I was not impressed with the remaster at all whenb compared to the remix. Do you think it possible that they will release the remix as a stand alone on vinyl, because If I get the vinyl box set, I would only look at the cover for the remaster with the original cover. There is no way I wouldbwaist my time actually playing the remaster vinyl when the remix is so much better. They did it for Holy Diver from cd box set to putting live concert on vinyl for RSD. So, still up in the air about wether to get the vinyl box set or not.
Live......U couldn't really hear Geoff.....I went to all those tours.....I was a budding musician & I'm now a producer. And we didn't care. U could basically just hear him in his main parts. All good. I have listened to this new mix.....Love it. Are there some things I hear that could have been done? Yup. & great point regarding the different "takes", I hear that as well. This in NOT the exact same tracks, per song. I hear new tracks......Cheers!!
The pre box Live Evil is a great performance but horrible muffled low volume sound. I ordered the cd box, coming next week. I hope it blows away the original.
I think the guitar is way too low in the mix, i prefer the powerful guitarsound on the original Live Evil album.
I actually prefer the remaster. the remix to me sounds harsh. A lot of highs and mids
Sorry to say. The Remix by Wyn Davis is fine and nice, but was butchered by Chris Gehringer Mastering. Is was compressed and limited do death, NO dynamic range, just a thick/block of squashed sonic bomb to headache and ear fatigue. Such a shame.
(Dynamic range compression or simply compression is an audio signal processing operation that reduces the volume of loud sounds or amplifies quiet sounds, thus reducing or compressing an audio signal's dynamic range.)
Listen to "Children of the Sea" as example. The track begins with Ronnie vocals VERY loud and when all the band enter, all sound small, reduced, chushed and constrict. No impact. No dynamic at all.
*I'm talking about digital versions and CDs, not Vinyl. I can't say how it sounds on Vinyl. I don't know If they sent Chris Gehringer mastering to Chris Bellman lacquer cut.
I talk about how much I hate over compressed music all the time, I think the loudness wars har ruined many a good album. I have the vinyl but there is an Apple Digital Master Version on Apple Music which is not as compressed, it's also in hi-res audio.
Worst sounding live album ever
did you hear the re-mx? sounds like a different album.
@@LairoftheAlchemist yes the remix is vastly superior
@@DBTdadguess I will pull the trigger and get this boxset since the remix is good and superior to the original.
Cos I had the original lp and sold it cos I don't like the sound of it.