QUIRKY Saab No-Crank - Part 1 (9-3 V6 Turbo)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Oooh it's a Saab V6 Turbo Stick-shift! FUN TIMES....if it starts!
Owner says that this Quirky Saab refuses to crank over unless you know the "magic formula".
Let's duplicate the customer complaint and figure out what is causing this bizarre symptom.
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Enjoy!
Ivan
"Contact Saab Dealer". I wish we could buddy, I wish we could..
Replacing Dilithium Crystals in the Star Ship Enterprise is easier than tracing down Saab electronics issues! (Don't ask me how I know) God Speed Ivan!
I said it before and ill say it again, ur tenacity to get the right diag is unmatched, even though I sometimes lose u in the process, watching u go through it with such enthusiasm is why I keep tuning in, thanks for posting
agreed! Ivan is great at not giving up, not gonna make a lot of money this way but at times doing what you love and not making much money is better than the opposite
I’ve always thought Saab was a classy car that was not out of my reach. That is one beautiful machine
In the late 90's to early 2000's, a college buddy worked at one of the bigger garages in State College and was affectionately known as Saab Guy - he had a knack for them, and all of the Saabs that came in were automatically assigned to him, as he seemed to be the only one who could figure them out. Good times.
Wow Ivan when I watch you it seems so simple, but when I would attempt anything like it, which I never would, it would not come out like this. Thank you for your knowledge and your valuable time too....Pete
Thank you for your support Pete! It always seems easier when you watch someone else do the work ;)
My late sister had this problem, we never figured it out. This hits in the feels
I absolutely loved Saab.
I'm still looking for a Saab 900 Turbo in decent condition, it's my unicorn, can't ever seem to find one down here in the South and I know better than to buy one from anywhere further north than Southern Tennessee.
I can't believe you don't have more subscribers ! You explain everything your very informative and very helpful. Thank you for all the great information. I like your channel one of the best. Take care wish you the best Happy Holidays!.
Merry Christmas!
@zie_ german Very good conclusion!
Subscribers for a channel like this will be difficult to come by. In order to appreciate what Ivan does, you have to be technically minded with at least some grounding in automotive repair. I don't pretend to fully understand what he does, but I do know enough to appreciate his orderly thought processes as he zeroes in on the problem. When he does things like "Oh, the diagram is wrong, it isn't pin 21, it should be 36" and just tosses it off as an aside, I shake my head in wonderment. This channel will be heavy going for the typical TH-camr who is more interested in the Kardashians than in technology.
@@douglasburnside You hit the nail on the head. I always rave to my car buddies about this channel and other diag channels. They don't get it. I guess people don't want to think anymore.
I've always liked this channel because I love his problem solving skills. I have no clue hat the wave forms are telling him, other than it gives him data to compare against other signals. I have still learned enough about using a multi meter for trouble shooting to save a pile of money though. Will probably keep trying to learn until getting a Pico is justified. I wonder if there is a simulator web site out there.
It’s an awesome thing that you have the ability to figure these issues out. Even the so called “ dealership highly trained?” technicians? can’t or don’t have the training nor desire. They want to screw over customer by throwing parts at it and charging the hell out of you. Independent guys like you are very valuable to help keep people from wasting $ at a dealership
My buddy leased a 9-5 turbo 4 back in the day. I remember liking the way it drove. Of course, I always think of Seinfeld when I see a 9-3.
Hi Ivan, very interesting, many thanks from UK.
I love the video top gear did on SAB It was brilliant It was interesting how they actually didn't just rebadge the car they actually changed most of the Vauxhall/GM Vectra part's.
I've seen this engine computer in many GM cars and it always fail ..... Great video .
Merry Christmas to you, and your wife. Never miss your videos, you are one great instructor Bill N LI NY
Merry Christmas Bill! Thank you for your support always! 🙂🌲
1 hour and 2000 views ??
Big time, Ivan. 🙂
Saab is a totally great drivers car . My mum had the 973 V6 manual when we lived in the UK . I guess they’re making plane engines now.
I hope this car doesn't have enough wrong to warrant 7 parts. Great video!
Awesome to watch a Genius at work, thanks.
Perhaps Flagship can pull one outta their hat? This should be an interesting hunt. 👍
Nope...I asked!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics But can they repair one?
@@jeffryblackmon4846 Nope they said their "success rate" on Saab ECMs was low. The dang thing is smaller than my hand!
Using that fused power hack was very cool. Well done Ivan!
If you could rebuild Saab 9-3 ECUs, the Saab community will make you a millionaire.
Great diagnosis and love the Russian repair 😂. Always had a soft spot for cars like Saabs that are a little quirky. Can't wait to see the test drive cos I reckon this one will be pretty quick.
Classic "IVAN". Thank you and a truly Merry Christmas!
Skill, analysis and perseverance and you still were able to include a "Russian repair." You ARE THE MAN. Seriously...well done sir. A Blessed and Merry Christmas to you, your wife and the furry one as well as your extended family.
Thank you Paul, Merry Christmas!
Another awesome video Ivan! With the trouble codes that maybe the computer is trying to protect itself?
Great going! It has a 6-speed tranny, so I'd say it's worth fixing right. I remember the only European vehicle I've owned having several errors in the wiring diagram. I marked it up each time I found an error, because I wanted to keep it - but a dude in a Korean car totaled it. I'm looking forward to the next video on this!
Woooooow! What an amazing video of an issue, that makes you go crazy when you need your car daily and it doesn't start. Some tried to find the issue and changed parts, produced costs, but they didn't repair! But your way to find the issue is fantastic. And it's exactly the issue my car has, and the seller sold the 9-3 Aero in very good condition very cheap to me because his mechanic couldn't help. Maaaaan. Thank's sooooo much for this video. 🍻🕺🏻💻✔🙏🏻
Ivan, Merry Christmas to you and your Mrs.. I'm a bit behind so I'm going to Part 2 right now. Can't wait to see what happens. Thanks for Sharing!
On to part 2.
I love it. Npr fix for the time being. Tricking the car’s electronics with wiring diagrams and know how is very cool 👍
Ivan I can remember when my insurance agent told me (20 years ago) if I wanted a fast car with low insurance get a Saab turbo. I hate to ask how hard it is to get parts now. Super looking car.
I think for parts you would have to dive into specialist and enthousiast circles, forums, etc.
The 4cyl 2.3L 16V turbo engines are very tuneable and strong. These cars also had TRIONIC ignition system that could sense detonation on each cylinder seperately and elctronically by the way the spark jumped the gap. Back then it was cutting edge tech.
That said, GM-Saabs are not real Saabs IMO. The last Saabs with longitudinally installed engines are classic and would be my choice.
@@jfv65 Yeah, this seems to have the Holden/Saab LP9 2.8T V6 engine in it.
@@jfv65 Good thought on where to get difficult parts. Like you say most likely from word of mouth of Saab lovers. The Trionic ignition system sounds interesting. I will have to look at one of the Saab forums to learn more about it. These constructive replies always teach me something.
I own and operate an specialist Saab shop in Sweden and i cant say its an problem getting parts now, plenty of Saabs still on the road here in Sweden and junkyards have most parts in stock.
@@Halibrand Do most of the junkyards take out the popular parts of the car or do you have to pull it out yourself, or is pretty equal. Do you have the 2.3 turbo and how many miles have seen these things log before dying. Is there at least aftermarket engine rebuild kits?
very instructive, thank you
Well Done Ivan,logic+experiance diagnosis wins again.
Man your videos are good, thank you for uploading it.
I sit and try to solve the puzzle with you, cheer when !WE! get it right XD
1+ SUb
Its interesting how the starter and engine startup on a 2006 V6 9-3 sounds exactly the same as my 2004 4cyl 9-5 does.
Great train of thought, Ivan! This is an overcomplicated electronic set, but it's a six speed stick shift - worth the effort, I guess 🙂 The ROM error could be a cracked solder joint on the chip.
I'm itching for Part 2 and hoping this is not a lost cause.
Great work 👏 👍 👌 💪
Hi Ivan, when it comes to these exotic cars there is now short cuts or easy jobs, to me sounds like the tensioner is failing and if so you have to go all the 9 yards.
Don't take chances if the customer went to the dealer would tear down the timing components and replace with new one's, hey you are a great pro continue.
Happy Christmas to you and yours ivan from Ireland
Check the pins 1-13 and 2-14 on the ABS ECU. Can be loose , bad solder or conection.
The second you flashed that ecm at the beginning of the video i figured you’d have a bad ecm. We’ve replaced dozens of those over the years on Cadillacs. I’ll have to watch the rest of the video to see what you found.
Nice video.
Goldwing Saab in NY used to be the place to get used Saab parts. Not sure how their inventory is now.
Hi! When you plugged in the spare ecu it didnt work because the ground for it is the actual intake manifold. Same on euro3 spec Alfa Romeos v6 and twin sparks
SAABS make great driveway ornaments.
Does the ECM ground thru the case. I noticed that you hooked up the eBay ecm without bolted it in.
I could be wrong here. But that is just my observation.
All Saab ECM's Must have there Case connected to a solid ground , I noticed you tested the EBay ECM by resting it on top of the engine that will never work.. as the ECU refrences ground through its Case , This applys to all the other modules on the cars CAN network's including the ABS/Tracton control module. Called (The Electronic Stabilty Program or ESP system by Saab) .. yes I found that out the hard way years ago.. .
Had that exact issue in another 2006 2.8 aero in the UK. The part numbers don't need to match though, you can clone any pn# to any other in the car using trionic canflasher (free) and an obdlink sx cable (£60)
¡Gracias!
I have a fiat croma which was meant to be a Saab built with the same chassis and maybe electrics has the same code for the traction control and abs due to a broken wires on a wheel speed sensor and it starts and runs fine
The abs module pin 1-13 and 2-14 need resolving, the two at end if I have their numbers wrong sometimes. Sometimes reset button on positive battery terminal helps. I randomly found that turning my lights on seem to complete a circuit that allowed my car to start. I hope I don't have an ecm failure. Supposedly the bus starts at abs module, meaning if it fails there no ecm connection at all. The replacement ecm needs programming first, or no communication at all. Sometimes that fuse fails, causing engine start circuit to fail. It could be failing fuel pump too. Saab's I almost wish I didn't own one.
hey ivan, i'v run into a simular issue that you have, and to make a long story short i suggest you go to robinsonauto channel and follow "Saab 9-3T Part 1 + 2 - ECU swap and programming with a twist" i did tronic clone and it worked. i am sorry for "plugging" another channel on your channel, but my issue costed me many hours of research and maybe i can lead you into a direction that worked for me....i totaly understand if you delete my post, just trying to help out. i'm am looking forward to putting a handshake again at the upcoming tst event.....i will answer any questions you have as i'm monitoring this...
ps... i still have all the selfies from my first tst event from like 4-5 years ago, you included...lol
Ha I watched Will's video on that, very informative!
Your post is why most of us watch these channels. the wealth of knowledge from the viewers educates us all. Keep it up.
@@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176 thank u very much, i like to "speak up" when i feel it helps
Just got done with one but 2003 lol. Great video
Look how cars are driven in Africa! and also most other parts of the world! Amazing! 08 Versa blows a fuse every time owner starts the car, so a fuse per crank! I advised the owner to run a fused wire through a push button to starter. Turn ignition on and push the button button... no more blowing fuses...
Saab, they make jets...and if that doesn't scare you nothing will.
I think its the ignition switch. when you tested the power your lamp only lit up when returned to off. according to the description[15:16] it should power on in the on position which I think would wake up the ECM.
Yeah I wondered if I saw that as well. But I wasn't certain I could tell which click went with which blink.
Thinking about this, Ivans talking about a Wake up signal, I would think from that a one instance signal to high as your cycling the key to ON, so going through OFF it then blips the ECM to wake it up but then goes to Low (0V) when the key cycles to ON. That's what logic says to me, which I think is how Ivan has understood that too, hence him not questioning why no light at ON positioning, although to be fare to you he doesn't actually say the bulb only comes On in the Key OFF position I think,
so I can see why you thought that. I think the text he read out isn't correct, I don't think it should come on in the ON position. Ivans pretty clever he wouldn't have missed that but I guess if he had pointed out it doesn't do exactly what the text said we would have known he was thinking that and this comment wouldn't be on here?
@@steveknight6298 I was thinking that it was the act of turning the key that sends the pulse to wake up the ECM. Namely it goes from high in off, to low as the key breaks the circuit and back to high in the on position.
Nice job on temporary fix on the keep alive memory on those saabs. Never liked them as of their ugly features and shape lol. Gotta be the ecm home wonky! Let's see what you come up with in part 2!!
i like the Russian hack can come in handy in a pinch!
I also noticed that when the car wouldn't start, the fuel gauge showed empty and the fuel light was on. I was thinking WOW, nice of your customer to leave you an empty tank. Then when you reset the ECM codes, the fuel gauge worked. It all came together eh?
was that a question?
@@TehSWEEDwas that a question????????????
Nice video 👍. Next time if you need do something to with programming in GM group I advise use OPCOM.
Hey Ivan, just a thought,would Flaship 1 be an option,or is cost of that rule it out?
I don't know why I found this so funny but when you said " LET'S SHUT THE CAR OFF, USE MY HAND " I LAUGHED MY ASS OFF. Thanks Sir, Ivan I needed that this time of year & had to stop the vid.
Everything is CHRISTMAS, CHRISTMAS, & CHRISTMAS. I don't do that any more because of my wife. THANKS SIR IVAN, LOVE YOUR VIDS. EVEN THOUGH I GET LOST SOMETIMES ON THE TECH. SIDE. Henry from N.E. PA.
Your wife stops you from enjoying the birth of Jesus?
@@jeffryblackmon4846 NO,not really I guess. She took her own life in 2016 at the age of 49, we were married since High School at the age of 17.
I found her in bed after she shot herself, I'VE NOT BEEN RIGHT SINCE. IT'S SOMETHING NOBODY SHOULD SEE ESPECIALLY OF THEIR WIFE. I worked 2 jobs before this, now I can't even deal with the simplest things in life. I'm a BUM, A LOSER, SCREW EVERYTHING UP I TRY TO DO, compared to what I use to be, IT'S BEEN HELL SINCE THAT DAY.
Went to many, many Psych. Docs. take pills everyday, hell even admitted myself to 3 different Psych. hospitals. NOTHING WILL EVER HELP ME, NOTHING, NO NOT EVEN GOD.
All I have left is my 1 Dog now that keeps me alive ( UNCONDITIONAL LOVE ) if it wasn't for him I wouldn't be here. Once he's gone I'M GONE. I only stay here because I don't know what will happen to him if I go, I CAN'T DO THAT TO HIM LIKE MY WIFE DID TO ME, HE'S MY BOY.
@@NoWr2Run very sorry to hear, I really hope you find further future happiness.
@@steveknight6298 T.Y. VERY MUCH but I know what my future is. AGAIN T.Y. VERY MUCH, SIR.
Henry that is a tragic story, cannot imagine the pain. Honored to have you in this small community of diagnostic gearheads...sometimes that is the best therapy, just trying to figure stuff out and fixing it :)
Love your work Ivan.
Those Saab's are famous for faulty ignition switches, people on youtube wiring a switch to the fuse box so they didnt have to keep pulling the battery cable off and on.
I won't be one bit surprised if there is at least one bad electrolytic cap lurking inside the ECM. Having to perform this kind of reset dance is quite typical for such failures in the world of computers, and it's the right age range for bad caps. If the thing lends itself to servicing in any way, shape or form, going on the hunt with an ESR meter may be worth a shot.
Thanks Mr Ivan
I had the same problem, opened up the traction control module, resoldered and high temp sealant. Problem hasn't been back in 2 yrs
Edit: hit all the pins and blow out any debris with air in a can. There is no moisture. Also, you don't need a tech 2 tool to mate it.
Also use some dielectric grease on the connector pins
I had a parasitic draw from funky rear actuator was gonna buy a remote battery shut off from ali express this video with the battery keepalive intricacies convinced me not too... symptoms were theft protection failure on every crank.
Hi Ivan, you know, Saab was a GM product from 200-2010. Greetings from Switzerland
I've used SIA electronics to repair my 1999 F350 diesel pcm, with success. Maybe they can do a KAPM chip swap with one of the ebay ecm's if good.
Love your video; at video 1738 you found pin 21 empty; and wire going to pin 36 instead; Wondering what the diagrams say is supposed to go to 36; maybe a previous mechanic error
It’s the same drivetrain as Opel Vectra C in Europe. Opel have had multiple issues with the ECM’s when located on the engine.
Are there fine hairs inside? Do they like to be torn by engine vibration?
@@engeneer_ru5827 It's more likely the extreme heat cycles that cause premature failure.
@@ferrumignis Could be thermal shock...
But I meant this: _ th-cam.com/video/MbcnYY5K12o/w-d-xo.html _ (Russian language)
I love it; "Russian repair." Another great video.
2:06 Fun fact no one asked for: that car on the Scanner looks like a Saab 900
The 2006 v6 ecu is unique to that year, the high speed can is failing. You can marry the used ecu, but will need a tech 2 and this 2000. I think xemodex is repairing this problem.
I'm sorry to say I've seen these symptoms before, this is unfortunate classic case of the ECM has it's head in it's own ass, yes a fix is possible but not before you question what you're doing with your life, good luck and God speed
Might of been Saabs advanced anti-theft system where you need a scanner to shut it off...lol.
Oh, this is a Saab of a story for this car.
I'll show myself to the door.
Educated / talented, thank you
I love hearing all those creaky, flimsy plastic sounds ... cheap plastic on that center console and interior. Ivan, I miss your single episode uploads. I know from a TH-cam standpoint multi- episodes is more $$... but it's hard to watch when another part is needed to finish. Almost all uploads are now multiple Part 1, part 2, part 3.
Overall, the 9-3 has a very comfortable cabin. Some of the interior plastics aren't the best but the ergonomics and driving experience is great IMHO.
Patience, kind Sir. Patience.
@@jeffryblackmon4846 You do you! All his videos are now 3 parters. We have a right to comment.
@@dosgos My buddy had a 2006 Aero package... very nice vehicle but the interior was low buck. Very cheap plastics inside. Like a mid 80's GM or Ford. Aweful. Lots of window ozone hazing from all that plastic.
@@dosgos My pet peeve about Saabs is they don't give you enough room for the gas and clutch pedals...I have wide feet. Really frustrating!
Before ordering more eBay specials, did you check if you are even able to program a second hand engine computer on a Saab? On some brands (uch BMW uch) you can only program a second hand engine computer with the most expensive equipment that is bypassing the factory security features, and sometimes cloning is the only option.
I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed in that powers all checked out. I was developing a hunch that the computer wasn't being put to sleep causing it to fail to wake up properly. I guess that theory failed. At this point, I'm suspecting the EC's "reboot on power up" function is failing. It might be worth cracking the case to see if the problem is a simple and obvious board repair.
Nice car!
If the ECU ends up being replaced. I would like to see the old one opened up.
Based on the reset "hack" I would assume that the memory modules on the ECU may have gone bad. This is likely resulting in corrupted values throwing off the computer. Someone can maybe solder some new memory modules on the board which may fix the ECU.
It could also be bad solder joints. In this era of electronics there was a push to switch over from leaded to lead free solder.
Based on the heat cycles/vibrations there could very well be broken solder joints causing the issue as well
Remove the ignition switch module, take it apart and clean the rotary tracks and the wiper contacts , retension the contacts. Reassemble and good to go.
The ignition switch is fine lol
My job tomorrow got steering malfunction see dealer , fingers crossed because fuses and battery lead removed aren’t starting it up
Cool car. I'd love to own one not really maybe.
Sucks that the Ebay ECU was marked as tested and good. Hopefully they get their money back.
Are there any rebuilders for those engine computers? Can they actually be opened up to be rebuild would be the first thing to know.
I used to have a neighbor that was a retired fighter pilot that had a bunch of Saabs. I’m surprised you don’t have the bad computer opened up on the bench to poke at it. 😂
Did I see that the ground on the pcm is grounded through the body of the pcm? So it has to be mounted. I might be wrong.
You are correct, ECM needs to ground on the engine
I was about to post the same thing! 10:05 shows the case ground. But be careful.. scannerdanner's abs module shows the case ground is for a reason lol. I've learned instead of using a jumper wire to ground, actually install the module :)
Was going to mention this as well.
looks like the ABS fault is shutting the ECM starting system down for safety reasons.
When I think of a SAAB I think of a 900 on the old 99 chassis. This car is simply a rebadged Vauxhall Cavalier or an Opel Asconda. I love it when you do Russian repairs, Ivan. I have been trying to get a good radiator for the ol' Mercury from Flea Bay. (As Eric O. says.) I hope you have better luck. I think you should try Flagship 1. Great video!
brave man playing with extinct car
ALL MY OWN CARS ARE EXTINCT xD
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics the car company known as saab has disappeared gone gm vauxhall the parent co still get certain parts if you are lucky but a magician like you will fix the impossible
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics The Rogue isn't; but, technically that is your wife's car.
yea those Bosch ecms in these saabs are junk, diagnosed one with exact same issue but with no codes, and was actually a temperature related issue with the ecm, would get hot from be mounted to the engine, pour cold water on the ecm and it would start right up, will need tech 2 with saab card to program it
Need job in your city!... I love this jobs.
Would reprogramming the current engine computer do any good
Ivan the Engine computer must be grounded, that's why you could not communicating with it at 21:55 on the video.
Why not send the OEM computer out for test and repair? Or send the eBay special out for test and repair?
👍
ya kinda worried me.... the correct wire coming from the correct fuse but is installed in the pin location ABSOLUTELY ADJACENT TO EXPECTED?? WTF? Are you sure is ok? Or is it cause the car starts after finagling?
No ground to trigger control relay? Common in the UK with SAAB and Euro GM