Good stuff. I'm enjoying the series! I'd like to hear discussions on British symphonists like William Alwyn, Lennox Berkeley, Richard Rodney Bennett, Benjamin Frankel, Peter Racine Fricker....so many of them, and my favorite, "British by association" Roberto Gerhard (his incredible 4th Symphony)
I heard Mata conduct the Chavez 2nd with the Cincinnati Symphony and it was marvelous. The slow section has a part for stopped horns that Mata had them play unstopped. It rocks.
I have had the privilege to conduct a lot of Arnold's wind band music and had a passing acquaintance with him and indeed received a birthday card from him. He and I share the same birthday (Oct. 21) along with George Solti, 1912, 1921 and 1952 respectively. Great talk, Dave.
Good to see you discussing Arnold! A much under-valued composer, I think, as you say. He definitely has a distinctive 'voice' that's quite hard to pin down in words -but you instantly know it's him when you hear him.
Thank you David for this repertoire chat! It brought my attention to Joly Braga Santos’ symphonies which I didn’t know! The 5th is really something! Interesting, gripping! Arnold I already knew, also his other pieces like his overtures, which includes a very funny and creative Grand Grand Festival Overture for orchestra and vacuum cleaners 😂 During the pandemic I also discovered William Alwyn a good symphonist and other British composers such as Bliss, Richard Rodney Bennett, Goossens, et al. what made quarantine bearable!
Thank you for another enjoyable talk. Arnold is such a fascinating composer, so prolific; he was able to write wonderful miniatures as well as powerful symphonies. My own personal favourite is no. 5, I have played the finale to friends unfamiliar with it and watched their surprise at the unexpected ending. He did find peace for the last few years of his life, someone became his carer and companion until his death. The other thing that struck me is how much music lovers owe to Klaus Heymann for Naxos and Marco Polo, it is through these labels that I got to know the music of Braga Santos and other 20C Portuguese composers, as well as the 20C Japanese composers series and so much other music off the beaten track. The CDs also come with no nonsense notes on the music, not the all to pretentious crap that usually comes with a release from the majors, such as the performer's 'journey' or why they transcribed the Grosse Fuge for a kazoo orchestra.
Totally agree as well. Arnold’s 5th Symphony is one of my favorite works of all time and that ending is indeed a shattering master-stroke. I’ll never forget the first time I heard it - it stopped me in my tracks and shook me to my core. It still does to this day. Yes, long live Naxos and other record companies (CPO, Chandos, BIS, Ondine, Dacapo, Capriccio, Toccata, Lyrita) that focus on INTERESTING REPERTOIRE instead of the latest hot-shot young soloist/conductor who wants to record the millionth version of some warhorse. (And I say this as a young musician myself!)
Arnold's 7th is such a kaleidoscopic and intriguing work. Quite probably my favorite. It has unexpected moments like the sort of Celtic dance in the 3rd movement and the ending itself. A masterpiece in my view. My favorite recording is with Handley (don't recall the orchestra). Thumbs up for the other symphonies too! 👍🏼
This has to be one of my favorites of your videos yet! I loved how you illustrated the fascinating stylistic changes these composers underwent. Arnold and Braga Santos are two of my favorite composers, while Chavez is one I need to become more familiar with. Arnold’s 7th and Braga Santos’ 5th are two of the darkest, most nightmarish, yet imaginative and surprisingly accessible works that I know. It’s probably just me, but I’d take this kind of music over most of the 2nd Viennese School and the ensuing “bleep bloop” Darmstadt cult any day!
I hope this "tough" series goes on for many episodes. What a pleasure to discover, at least for me, some neglected composers with challenging music. Such discoveries I first made with the Lyrita LP label and now this. Wonderful!
Thank you for this survey. I only knew Malcolm Arnold as someone from the UK. His life was indeed tragic. Those recordings on Naxos sound great. Will check them out.
Just have to comment, re opening of 6th. No one could write for brass, especially his beloved trumpet, like Arnold. And thanks for mercilessly flogging, as you said, Braga Santos. I have a ton of his music thanks to your reviews.
Another emigré to Britain before the Second World Way, was Hans Gál, who settled in Edinburgh. He composed four symphonies amongst other works. They have been recorded by Kenneth Woods and the Orchestra of theSwan on the Avie label, coupled with Schumann's four symphones. Well worth a listen.
Dave, would you mind talking about American Symphonies one day? I really love Harris's 3rd, but besides that I just don't know where to go from there. Sure, Copland is a logical next step and maybe Chavez's 2, but still there is so much I'd like to know (especially because of the gem that is Harris' 3rd!) I've got the Bernstein Symphony Edition and Slatkin's American Collection, but what's next for me and maybe others?
Here in Portugal, some years ago, FNAC made a box with the complete symphonies under Cassuto (Marco Polo edition). It is (of course) out of print, but maybe you can still find it somewhere...
Let us not ignore the later symphonies of Vaughan Williams, equally gnarly. One of the advantages of acquiring complete symphony boxes is that it is easy to hear how each composer's voice evolves. The Naxos Arnold box is one of my favorites for binge listening that way. When are you going to get to Tippett (A Child of Out Time, with settings of spirituals, through his gnarly symphonies)?
Sony is sitting on lots of Chavez material conducted by the composer, including all 6 symphonies in stereo, but as far as I can tell, has never released them on CD. Would have thought they would find a receptive market in Mexico and the US, but Sony apparently doesn’t think so.
@Jerry Gennaro: I have in my collection a CD: "Chavez conducts his Sinfonia India/Sinfonia de Antigona/Sinfonia Romantica" recorded in 1959 in 35 mm three-track magnetic film on 'Everest' EVC 9041.
@@hwelf11 Yes, I saw that on Amazon, after I dropped the comment. One reviewer said the Philips reissue had no remastering done, and thus sounded excatly the same as the Everest.
Three tough symphonists who are well worth getting to know! Malcolm’s Symphony 5 with the CBSO, conducted by the composer himself, is a truly magnificent symphony and I’ve been spinning the LP a lot lately. Chavez towards the end end of his life was very spiky indeed but still a great listen. And your videos introduced me to Bragos, a skilled symphonist whose output varied widely in style from the beginning to the end of his career. This is all, without exception, great stuff.
Another composer of challenging symphonies was Sir Peter Maxwell Davies. He stayed in Antarctica at he British Research station for the inspiration to write his Symphony No. 8 (The Antactic Symphony).
Would Corigliano's symphonic output to date qualify him as a tough symphonist? I think his works can be gnarly and often dissonant but always fascinating and coherent to me. I've been listening to his 3rd Symphony 'Circus Maximus' recently and whilst it is hardly easy listening it's amazing the sonorities Corigliano gets from the large wind ensemble he utilises.
The king of all started-friendly, got-gnarly symphonists was Sibelius, and I have always been mystified that he found such acceptance in Britain and the USA even so.
For tough symphonies, how about Henryk Gorecki's first of four symphonies. To get the feel of living in a Stockholm council flat there are the sixteen symphonies of Allan Pettersson. The seventh is really good. To take things to a deeper level and feel the pain of living in Stalin's Soviet Union try the five symphonies of Galina Ivanovna Ustvolskaya. You will be a chaned man. You may need to lighten up and listen to the 344 symphonies of Lief Segerstam after embracing the Ustvolskaya experience.
Arnold’s music has a cinematic quality that would not have been out of place in Star Wars…if it had been directed by Tim Burton (picture Luke Skywalker as an animated, stumbling skeleton).
Good stuff. I'm enjoying the series! I'd like to hear discussions on British symphonists like William Alwyn, Lennox Berkeley, Richard Rodney Bennett, Benjamin Frankel, Peter Racine Fricker....so many of them, and my favorite, "British by association" Roberto Gerhard (his incredible 4th Symphony)
I heard Mata conduct the Chavez 2nd with the Cincinnati Symphony and it was marvelous. The slow section has a part for stopped horns that Mata had them play unstopped. It rocks.
I have had the privilege to conduct a lot of Arnold's wind band music and had a passing acquaintance with him and indeed received a birthday card from him. He and I share the same birthday (Oct. 21) along with George Solti, 1912, 1921 and 1952 respectively. Great talk, Dave.
That's splendid! I am continually amazed at the wealth of experience found among viewers. What a marvelous community!
Good to see you discussing Arnold! A much under-valued composer, I think, as you say. He definitely has a distinctive 'voice' that's quite hard to pin down in words -but you instantly know it's him when you hear him.
Thank you David for this repertoire chat! It brought my attention to Joly Braga Santos’ symphonies which I didn’t know! The 5th is really something! Interesting, gripping! Arnold I already knew, also his other pieces like his overtures, which includes a very funny and creative Grand Grand Festival Overture for orchestra and vacuum cleaners 😂 During the pandemic I also discovered William Alwyn a good symphonist and other British composers such as Bliss, Richard Rodney Bennett, Goossens, et al. what made quarantine bearable!
Thank you for another enjoyable talk. Arnold is such a fascinating composer, so prolific; he was able to write wonderful miniatures as well as powerful symphonies. My own personal favourite is no. 5, I have played the finale to friends unfamiliar with it and watched their surprise at the unexpected ending. He did find peace for the last few years of his life, someone became his carer and companion until his death. The other thing that struck me is how much music lovers owe to Klaus Heymann for Naxos and Marco Polo, it is through these labels that I got to know the music of Braga Santos and other 20C Portuguese composers, as well as the 20C Japanese composers series and so much other music off the beaten track. The CDs also come with no nonsense notes on the music, not the all to pretentious crap that usually comes with a release from the majors, such as the performer's 'journey' or why they transcribed the Grosse Fuge for a kazoo orchestra.
I couldn't agree more!
Totally agree as well. Arnold’s 5th Symphony is one of my favorite works of all time and that ending is indeed a shattering master-stroke. I’ll never forget the first time I heard it - it stopped me in my tracks and shook me to my core. It still does to this day.
Yes, long live Naxos and other record companies (CPO, Chandos, BIS, Ondine, Dacapo, Capriccio, Toccata, Lyrita) that focus on INTERESTING REPERTOIRE instead of the latest hot-shot young soloist/conductor who wants to record the millionth version of some warhorse. (And I say this as a young musician myself!)
Arnold's 7th is such a kaleidoscopic and intriguing work. Quite probably my favorite. It has unexpected moments like the sort of Celtic dance in the 3rd movement and the ending itself. A masterpiece in my view. My favorite recording is with Handley (don't recall the orchestra). Thumbs up for the other symphonies too! 👍🏼
This has to be one of my favorites of your videos yet! I loved how you illustrated the fascinating stylistic changes these composers underwent. Arnold and Braga Santos are two of my favorite composers, while Chavez is one I need to become more familiar with. Arnold’s 7th and Braga Santos’ 5th are two of the darkest, most nightmarish, yet imaginative and surprisingly accessible works that I know. It’s probably just me, but I’d take this kind of music over most of the 2nd Viennese School and the ensuing “bleep bloop” Darmstadt cult any day!
Thank you for doing this series! There is just so much more to music than meets the... ear...
I hope this "tough" series goes on for many episodes. What a pleasure to discover, at least for me, some neglected composers with challenging music. Such discoveries I first made with the Lyrita LP label and now this. Wonderful!
Thank you for this survey. I only knew Malcolm Arnold as someone from the UK. His life was indeed tragic. Those recordings on Naxos sound great. Will check them out.
Thanks, Dave, for this wonderful excursion full of really marvelous discoveries!
You're the new Karl Haas - and that's a tremendous compliment!
Just have to comment, re opening of 6th. No one could write for brass, especially his beloved trumpet, like Arnold. And thanks for mercilessly flogging, as you said, Braga Santos. I have a ton of his music thanks to your reviews.
Another emigré to Britain before the Second World Way, was Hans Gál, who settled in Edinburgh. He composed four symphonies amongst other works. They have been recorded by Kenneth Woods and the Orchestra of theSwan on the Avie label, coupled with Schumann's four symphones. Well worth a listen.
The VoxBox Chavez set is difficult to find and very expensive indeed. Luckily for us it has been reissued on Brilliant Records in 2014.
I'd love to hear a program devoted to the symphonies of Robert Simpson, Peter Racine Fricker, and Humphrey Searle.
Can't play samples.
@@DavesClassicalGuide My mistake. I thought you could play CPO recordings (which would have taken care of the Searle).
@@robertabbey6495 Actually, I can, but I wasn't thinking of him...
Thanks David, Arnold's 6th finale sounds to me to be a great ring tone option!
Dave, would you mind talking about American Symphonies one day?
I really love Harris's 3rd, but besides that I just don't know where to go from there.
Sure, Copland is a logical next step and maybe Chavez's 2, but still there is so much I'd like to know (especially because of the gem that is Harris' 3rd!)
I've got the Bernstein Symphony Edition and Slatkin's American Collection, but what's next for me and maybe others?
I have done a whole bunch already...
Good stuff. I heard of arnold from the cbc radio. But the other two I'm not familiar with.
I love the Santos. Wish the symphonies were in a box.
Here in Portugal, some years ago, FNAC made a box with the complete symphonies under Cassuto (Marco Polo edition). It is (of course) out of print, but maybe you can still find it somewhere...
@@joaofernandoalmeida1493 Thanks for the response. I have looked a few places and no luck. Good to know there was one.
@@joaofernandoalmeida1493 I have a friend in Portugal. He is a conductor. His name is Alberto Roque. Perhaps you have heard of him.
@@jimcochran1408 Individual CDs are available from Presto (as well as digital downloads) and also available to purchase or stream from Qobuz.
@@jimcochran1408, I'm affraid I haven't. But I searched him online and now I have learned somthing new. Thank you!
Let us not ignore the later symphonies of Vaughan Williams, equally gnarly. One of the advantages of acquiring complete symphony boxes is that it is easy to hear how each composer's voice evolves. The Naxos Arnold box is one of my favorites for binge listening that way. When are you going to get to Tippett (A Child of Out Time, with settings of spirituals, through his gnarly symphonies)?
Sony is sitting on lots of Chavez material conducted by the composer, including
all 6 symphonies in stereo, but as far as I can tell, has never released them
on CD. Would have thought they would find a receptive market in Mexico and
the US, but Sony apparently doesn’t think so.
@Jerry Gennaro: I have in my collection a CD: "Chavez conducts his Sinfonia India/Sinfonia de Antigona/Sinfonia Romantica" recorded in 1959 in 35 mm three-track magnetic film on 'Everest' EVC 9041.
@@apointofinterest8574 This was also reissued around 1989 in the Phillips "Legendary Classics" series.
@@hwelf11 Yes, I saw that on Amazon, after I dropped the comment. One reviewer said the Philips reissue had no remastering done, and thus sounded excatly the same as the Everest.
Three tough symphonists who are well worth getting to know! Malcolm’s Symphony 5 with the CBSO, conducted by the composer himself, is a truly magnificent symphony and I’ve been spinning the LP a lot lately. Chavez towards the end end of his life was very spiky indeed but still a great listen. And your videos introduced me to Bragos, a skilled symphonist whose output varied widely in style from the beginning to the end of his career. This is all, without exception, great stuff.
Man, the Braga Santos 5th sounds like the ultimate fun ride. How many atonal crowdpleasers are there in c20 music? Terrific.
Quite a few, actually. Maybe the subject for another chat!
@@DavesClassicalGuide That would be excellent
Another composer of challenging symphonies was Sir Peter Maxwell Davies. He stayed in Antarctica at he British Research station for the inspiration to write his Symphony No. 8 (The Antactic Symphony).
A pity he came back.
Would Corigliano's symphonic output to date qualify him as a tough symphonist? I think his works can be gnarly and often dissonant but always fascinating and coherent to me. I've been listening to his 3rd Symphony 'Circus Maximus' recently and whilst it is hardly easy listening it's amazing the sonorities Corigliano gets from the large wind ensemble he utilises.
Why not? I agree, he makes some amazing sounds.
I mean to say I know his music as I am a musician from the UK. A trumpet player.
The king of all started-friendly, got-gnarly symphonists was Sibelius, and I have always been mystified that he found such acceptance in Britain and the USA even so.
I don't believe that's true at all.
For tough symphonies, how about Henryk Gorecki's first of four symphonies. To get the feel of living in a Stockholm council flat there are the sixteen symphonies of Allan Pettersson. The seventh is really good. To take things to a deeper level and feel the pain of living in Stalin's Soviet Union try the five symphonies of Galina Ivanovna Ustvolskaya. You will be a chaned man. You may need to lighten up and listen to the 344 symphonies of Lief Segerstam after embracing the Ustvolskaya experience.
Please read the comments before posting. I appreciate the advice, but only need to hear it once!
Arnold’s music has a cinematic quality that would not have been out of place in Star Wars…if it had been directed by Tim Burton (picture Luke Skywalker as an animated, stumbling skeleton).
Wasn't he?
I love the story of Malcolm Arnold in his last years being cared for by a friend. It sounds such a good example of care.
I think the zavala is a rhythm from the Zavala region of Mozambique... and not Madagascar, right?
Probably. Mozambique, Madagascar, Montana, Milford, Michigan, Moscow, Milan, Montenegro, Moldova, Miami--they all sound the same to me. All those Ms.
I somehow never can keep Carlos and Cesar Chavez straight. I'll have to figure out some mnemonic device...
Cesar Salad. See if that helps.
@@DavesClassicalGuide You have a way of getting to the point.
If anything, that's Catholicist Realism in Braga Santos' Fourth, not socialist. Salazar would've hardly stood for that.
Sure, whatever!