Sally and Jack are the kind of couple that you love in concept and aesthetic but that doesn't have enough screentime or development in the movie. You love both of them as characters and you see how well they would work toguether so you want them to end toguether, Sally is that supportive girlfriend that enables Jack's creativity and new passions but knows when he is going too far and despite her shyness tries to keep him grounded, so she really is good for Jack, the problem is that we don't see in what aspects Jack is good for her. I do wish we got more interest from Jack's side on Sally during the movie, because her crush is really one-sided until the last minuts where he realises how munch she has done for him and falls in love with her. Still love the movie, the characters and this couple tough, just wish we could had seen more of them toguether.
I think in the end that's why people like them so much; they can imagine what they would be like as an actual couple vs seeing that played out and it lives into the fantasy element of it all. But for me, while I don't think it would be all that you know...ROMANTIC I do think it would be the most practical and realistic relationship. The poem states that they do go on to have several children don't even ask how that's possible, so the fact that that happens says a lot I think about their maturity level to decide to have children in whatever weird way they might have had them lol.
In the Pumpkin Queen book they explore their relationship a bit more. How she is hesitant on her title and leaving Halloween town. He tries to push her to expand her horizons. The book gets super mushy and romantic but sadly I don't see myself finishing it.
I'd say Jack's contribution to Sally is the same as his contribution to everyone in Halloween Town. He makes their lives exciting and gives them purpose. If Jack wasn't around to lead the charge then at some point the entire town would become afflicted with the same burnout that Jack experienced. He's the bulwark standing between them and boredom with the status quo that is their lives. We have no idea how long people live in Halloween town but it's probably fair to say that they've been doing this for decades at a minimum up to hundreds if not thousands of years. He's an absolutely essential cultural icon for all of them since he serves as a reminder of what they aspire to be and prevents the question of why they are doing it from ever coming up.
@@radiogobrrrrrrr1949 that's part of it but their relationship just works if you watch The Addams family cartoon series they go into more detail about the relationship Morticia said originally her sister was supposed to marry Gomez not her
Although it does feel one-sided at times, I really like just how much Jack truly values her. He doesn't see her as a prop or as just one of his fans, he acknowledges how skilled she is and trusts her with something as big as his costume, actually calling her his friend. I like them a lot, they're very cute together. Wish they'd had more screen time.
I agree! I think it's more that he thinks she's taken and that he becomes infatuated with Christmas, but he obviously cares about her throughout the movie and values her as an individual. I do wish they had more screentime, but idk i personally thought it was pretty well done all things considered
I think though the only scenes we see of him appreciating her is 1. When Sally sneaks out to give him stuff for his experiments and when he’s about to thank her she’s gone before he has the chance. And 2. When Sally is trying to warn him about his Christmas but he assumes she’s talking about the Santa Claus costume and he thinks she’s being modest and has full confidence in her making it great.
I always took "the pumpkin king" as more of a actually title rather than a nickname. I genuinely always thought that he was the monarch of Halloween, thus he couldn't just step out of it and the mayor needed him to take the actual decisions, no just a local celebrity's
Jack is the official king of Halloween. They Mayor even says so in the film, "Jack I'm only an elected official, I can't make any decisions by myself." Which implies that Jack has the final say in what happens during Halloween in the real world and in Halloween Town, and isn't just the mayor being a bumbling buffoon.
Sally pined for Jack most of the film, then suddenly a switch goes on inside Jack, and he likes her back at the end. Too one-sided; they barely spend much time together before the end.
For real! As a kid the climatic romantic moment at the end was jarring! Even when Jack snaps out of his funk it wasn’t because of something he remembered she said or something she gave him. It’s a great movie overall but fell on developing the romantic subplot.
i think he always liked her and respected her, he usually trusted her with important tasks or confided in her but it finally clicked that he was fixating on something he couldn’t have when what he needed was right there in front of him. that’s how i always saw it as a kid since i loved this move to death
Even as a kid their romance confused me. I knew that Sally was into Jack, but it just seemed like he didn't notice her so much throughout the majority of the film. Then he was suddenly like okay I'm into You now at the end. Supposedly they added some stuff later on to go a little more in depth into their relationship through other mediums. Just yesterday I saw that they have a book called The pumpkin Queen and this is after Sally gets the crown. Haven't read it and I'm not even sure if this is Cannon or not.
Agreed. I was also pretty confused with it as a kid and barely even noticed that SHE also liked him in that way. I just sorta thought she thought he was an interesting person and followed him around because she was bored of being locked away. Jack never really noticed her outside of the things she could do for him. No different than how he directed the other members of the town to do various things with their talents. Definitely a good potential romance building point, but I don't feel like it achieved a romance deserving of the soliloquy at the end. The romance sorta feels slapped on and out of place by the end because you don't really get any sort of desire for romance AT ALL with Jack.
You should definitely read the book! It was approved by Tim burton and the novel really uproots the problems in sally and jacks relationship and improves them in my opinion, nicely! Some sweet stuff
As much as I love Jack and Sally, their relationship at the end of the movie confused me, even as a kid. I knew Sally liked Jack, but Jack only saw her as a friend and was completely dense until the end. It just came out of nowhere.
If this couple could be boiled down to a Madame de Stael quote, it'd be this: "Love is the whole history of a woman's life, it is but an episode in a man's."
@@jl2280 tbh, comparing a movie and a novel in general is not fair game, movies have much less time to work with and can't directly show the inner thoughts of characters So yes, the statement in itself is true, but I think it can be said for almost every comparison between movie and novel outside of rare exceptions, novel characters are much more developed and complex on average
I watch this film every October, and the thing that ALWAYS sells me on these two is the scene where Jack is researching the scientific method and getting in his head about the meaning of Christmas, and then it cuts to Sally making her care package. That shared visual of ~science~ showcases Jack's dedication and Sally's practice, showcases their thought processes, and, most importantly, communicates that they are both incredibly intelligent people in different, compatible ways. They compliment each other in that they're both very capable and thoughtful, they're both creatives, and they both feel like the odd ones out, but Jack is bold where Sally is underhanded, and Jack is optimistic where Sally is pessimistic. They potentially have a lot to teach each other. The movie doesn't devote a lot of time to developing them, but it does do a good job of creating two characters who come off as a very good fit for each other even without that development.
I think that's the best way to put it. The movie doesn't do much to develop them as a couple...but that isn't the main plot of the movie and the runtime is pretty short. What it does do effectively is show these two as individuals and their individual personalities are fairly compatible. It can make them getting together seem rushed, but the idea that they'd get together EVENTUALLY makes perfect sense.
This movie is my favorite movie, because I think of how simple it is. It brings a certain charm to the movie. The animation also is to die to for, and song numbers, great. However, even though it's simple, I do think there's quite a lot to unpack with Jack. I think one reason why a LOT of people LOVE Jack, is he's far from perfect even though he's a leader; that's really relatable. But he's not some corrupt leader either, who hides away his mistakes, who tries to skirt owning up to them. Proof of this is his moment in the human world's cemetery, where he realizes he fcked up, but he did his best, and gets himself back on his feet. AND he apologies for his actions. That takes a lot of courage to do, vs being a coward about it. One thing I was actually always confused on was Jack and Sally's relationship. I'm often left wondering how long have they known each other cause in the movie's context, where it is currently, the relationship we see tends to lean in on the "for a while" aspect, since they refer to each other as friends, but if they WERE friends, then wouldn't there be more scenes of them together? To try and showcase Jack isn't as alone as he feels he is? And what would a relationship between them be like since Sally clearly has a lot of issues, (makes sense) would Jack be able to see them and handle them accordingly? I dunno there's a LOT to unpack there. But that's why I love it. I don't think it would be a perfect relationship, but I think Jack and Sally would have a more REALISTIC relationship.
Perhaps more friends in the neighborly acquaintance kind of way. I have neighbors I've waved to regularly and made chit chat for YEARS , but I don't necessarily hang out with them on the regular, let alone bear my soul to them. Maybe Sally was more of that.
@@JupiterTarts THAT makes a lot of sense actually. Like even with my being in an apartment, I only know one neighbor, and just their first names. So I can see that sort of situation with Jack and Sally. Not to mention Jack is KIND of oblivious but I don't think he's MEAN about that either. I think a lot of people misinterpret the scene of Sally trying to tell Jack of her vision and Jack steamrolling her as him completely ignoring her. But it's clear he's hearing SOME of what she's saying but not all of it. Selective hearing at its finest lol. I feel like I'd love hanging out with Jack in real life, because he just seems like a nice guy overall. Very charming and dapper for a dead guy lol.
Remember the scene where Sally brought Jack food when he was thinking about Christmas? I think that’s a good representation of her taking care of Jack when everyone else was just keeping their distance. Jack doesn’t even seem surprised by it, and waves to Sally with a silent smile, instead of in his usually loud and welcoming manner. It’s not weird to imagine this isn’t the first time Sally brought food to Jack when he was busy and likely not taking care of himself. I can imagine this happened many times before, but Sally always left before Jack could talk to her. Also in the scene after Oogie Boogie is defeated, Jack figures out that Sally was down there because she was trying to help him, and he’s flabbergasted! Even saying “I can’t believe I never realised that you-“ before being interrupted by the Trick or Treat kids. Those scenes can tell us that that Sally was always there for Jack and he was never aware because he felt so alone. That moment of clarity for him after the Oogie Boogie fight was him thinking “I never realised how much you were actually by my side”. He saw Sally as a good friend before, but he never realised just how much she cared about his well-being to the point where she was even trying to prevent him from making mistakes. A big difference between Sally and the other villagers is that she’s the only one who goes against Jacks wishes, which shows that despite her love for Jack, she still isn’t going to everything he says, which just shows that this relationship wouldn’t take away her independence at all. But the reasons she goes against him isn’t like when she went against Dr Finklestein. She goes against him because she KNOWS his plan is stupid and she doesn’t want him to get hurt or make a big mistake. Jack sadly doesn’t realise she’s trying to help him because he’s too wrapped up in this whole thing and honestly nobody has ever said “no” to him before. Jack is surrounded by people who are just “yes-men” and he was still in the mindset that he was alone, so he didn’t suspect that Sally was ACTUALLY worried about him. Nobody really tells Jack if they’re worried about him, as shown by the Mayor when its revealed after Jacks “death” that he didn’t like the Christmas idea from the beginning, but he still fully encouraged it because it was Jacks idea, and it was also shown when the towns people were all wondering and worrying about Jack during “Jacks Obsession”, even worrying about him dying, but still left him alone and didn’t check on him. Sally was the only one who did! So when it’s revealed how much Sally cared for him and worried for him, to even go as far as try to warn him and stop him when nobody else would’ve, yeah I can see why Jack realises his feelings for Sally, the person who always cared for him but he never fully realised how much until now. As for Sally and her issues, the song she sings (Sallys Song) mentions how she would like to join in with everyone else and just be able to stand by Jack, but her worry for him and the vision she had of him destroying Christmas overtook that want. The song also highlights how her upbringing with Finkelstein made her feel insignificant, and that Jack could never love her back. She also calls him a “dear friend”, which just strengthens the fact that they have a history. Idk if people will have an issue with this, but Sally being loved by Jack is one of the ways she gains confidence at the end. The final scene has her slowly slipping away from the crowd and going off alone, like Jack did at the beginning of the movie. Sally is still not “part of the crowd” and she never really was, so she just disappears like always. When we see her sit on the top of the hill, she has a smile on her face and is plucking the petals of a flower, the same flower that manifested into a visions to her. That makes me think she was content and proud of herself, because what she did helped save her loved one and helped him realise his mistakes, and doesn’t regret any of it. And then we see Jack. For the first time, it’s Jack that approaches Sally. Jack calls her his “dearest friend” and asks if he’s allowed to sit by Sally, asks if she minds if he did. Sally said before that she wished she could stand by him but she doesn’t feel worthy, but now Jacks here, asking HER if he was allowed to sit by her. Jack says how he’d like to gaze at the stars with Sally, and Sally realises then that Jack loves her as well, as she joins in the song. They both sing about how they want to be together. They want to share experiences and do things TOGETHER. They both weren’t alone anymore. Both figures, both people who felt alone for so long, finally find eachother and happiness. And the song ends with them both saying that it was “simply meant to be”, contradicting what Sally said before when her insecurities made her think her and Jack would never be together, and how she regrets feeling the way she does. This end scene shows that she doesn’t regret her actions or feelings anymore. She doesn’t regret trying to stop Jacks Christmas because it helped him, and she doesn’t regret loving him because she realises that she can be loved back. Say what you want about these two, but sometimes someone loving and respecting you the same as you feel about them can help you realise that you are worth being loved. This movie is my favourite of all time and I’ll probably love it till the ends of the earth, and these two are no exception. Sorry if I rambled for too long and I hope I made sense.
jack skellington is adhd coded because i, an adhd having person, feels being burnt out from something you love, throwing all your energy into a new hyperfixation, accidentally being clueless and aloof around other, people pleasing, and ultimately hating myself and moping when i realize i was doing too much
@@liamorrison4484 OP prolly relates cause he's seeing the symptoms that got him(and me) ratted out to a doctor lolol. If that ain't ADHD coding, idk what is
He’s based heavily on Danny Elfman who wrote all the lyrics which the rest of the script was based on and sang all of his lines and related to his predicament being sick of his band Oingo Boingo and wanting to quit and do film composing instead. Danny said he would have definitely been diagnosed with ADHD if he were born in a younger generation. Oh and he’s finally returned to doing his rock star thing this year just as Jack returned to doing Halloween.
Same, and I too relate to having an identity crisis when my interests change-- like, who am I anymore if I'm super into this new thing? Am I even the same person? It can be super stressful
I always felt that Sally is the one that just came out of her own tv series and this movie is just following the finale to give us a more epic plot. If you deep dive into the dialogue (and why wouldnt I?) you notice that Sally has been sneaking out for somewhere under a year to be in this Halloween play= the sequence she appears in is a partnership between her and the wind who specifically references 'blowing through your hair" and Sally is the only character with long hair. So the latest spate of poisonings were her probably trying to make all of the last minute rehearsals. Her and the hanging tree hang out a lot like introverted friends and she needs extra leaves since the doctor doesnt seem to realise she can repair herself. Nobody in the town double takes when they see her creeping around and even the musicians don't rat her out when she runs away and starts sleeping rough. Jack also knows her personally, knows her talents and skillset like sewing and her problem solving abilities and they talk like equals on the rare occasions they DO talk. I would even argue the crush doesn't REALLY take hold until she heard him singing. Until then she was just following the town women's example. The small witch humping his leg is a standout to model behaviour. I'd also like to point out that the doctor is quite despicable in his treatment of her, but hes really more of an introverted father than something suspect. After all he sits up all night waiting for her to come back (even if it was reluctantly), never really yells at or threatens her and his terrible punishment to the latest poisoning was to lock her in her room for a few hours. If anything its like he wanted a daughter but confused filial piety with slavery, which makes sense since he treats his Igor like a dog with opposable thumbs. He even looked offended when Sally pointed out he could make another creation. I'm sure my mum would give me the same look if I told her she was welcome to have another kid if I wasn't up to standard. The eventual replacement he made wasnt another child, but a literal other half. Since now theyll both want the same thing and are incomplete without the other.
They don't have much screentime, but Jack truly DOES value and love Sally. He only really stops to listen Sally, seeks out her input, and asks her to make the most important part
Yess you are 100% right he doesn’t not listen to her he’s just doesn’t understanding what she is saying may people get that confused and he does value her ❤️🖤
He´s the literal master of her dimension, her world lol. Jack learning to love her is similar to re-learns to love himself, Halloween, and Halloween-town.
I'm used to seeing fictional women be conceived for the sole purpose of _rewarding_ the bland, generic "everyman" male protagonist (with few redeeming qualities) for resolving a conflict. But Sally is a slight step up for a couple of different reasons. 1.) Jack and Sally have a history together! They both refer to each other as their "dearest friend". So it's easier for me to accept them coming together than most instances, wherein an incompetent/inexperienced man meets a hypercompetent woman for the first time in Act 1 and they're making out by Act 3. Speaking of that trope... 2.) Jack is already the very _best_ at what he does, so he doesn't need Sally to babysit him. Not _really._ Sure he would have had a better time if he had actually listened to his friend at any point in the story _before_ he leaves for the human world, but after he fails, he picks himself back up, cleans up his own sht, confronts Sally and basically tells her straight up that he wasn't appreciating her help like he should have. Idk, I'm sure I have more thoughts, but I just think they're neat(er than average)
Sally and Jake are one of my favorite Disney couples. I love how they are both kind, sweet, and supportive towards each other. I especially love how they call each other “Dear friend” showing how deeply they care about each other. Jack being an outgoing and more of an extrovert and Sally being a sweet, shy introvert, these two perfectly complete each other and I love these two. They really are simply meant to be. 💖
When it comes to her home life, she definitely deserves better. She deserves to have freedom and a voice. I feel Jack was the only one who treated her with decency and he trusted her to make his suit for a reason. When people are excited and eager, it makes sense that he did not heed her warning. I do love them as a couple because friendship to lovers, obviously, but they can relate and understand each other as well as see the other for who they truly are. They balance each other out with their optimism/pessimism.
I know your comment is 9 months old and the video is 10 months old. But atleast oogie boogie was trying his best trying to be positive towards sally when she was starting to sew herself. But yes she definitely deserves better.
i think as a ship works well, esp because by the movie events we don't see them as a couple but more of a "oh heck yeah they gonna start dating" at least that's how I read that
I still think they’re perfect for each other. Sometimes love doesn’t have to “develop.” Jack was just oblivious to Sally’s feelings because he was too caught up in his own world. He had a reputation to fill fil but wanted something more out of life. He didn’t realize that what he wanted was right in front of him. And that’s realistic. It’s not like they immediately got together right from the start. It took the entire movie for Jack to realize that Sally was what he needed all along
I dunno I still don't vibe with it. It came across like "wow you help me, I guess I like you back." Love needs to develop in some form or fashion otherwise it just comes across as infatuation. I dunno, maybe that's just me, but if I liked someone and I did nice things for them and suddenly they wanted me after they realised how useful I was.... I'd feel used.
@@LangkeeLongkee I don’t know if I’d see Sally feeling used though. I think the message is more that we strive for something more in life whenever sometimes you have to just look around. I mean if Jack DIDN’T get with Sally after all that she did for him, I’d be extremely pissed if I was her. I think the message is that Jack always cared about her but was too blind with his own life to see how much she cared about him. She never directly told him, he figured it out himself. And I think that’s more important than having that person tell you themselves.
@@katlyndobransky2419 I'm not saying she IS being used I'm saying your logic isn't foolproof. And you being extremely pissed off is weird.... It's giving nice guy. Someone isn't owned another person's affection for being nice to them or doing nice things for them. I dunno if you're in a relationship or how old you are but that's not how that works. And how could he always care about her he didn't know her. And if that's what they were trying to do it was poorly done because they never established he even saw her like truly saw her. It seemed like he went from knowing she existe and acknowledging her to "love of my life perhaps??????" in his own head and that's weird to me. Maybe it's because I'm gay, but I always found it weird in stories when a woman is pining and waiting around for a man to decide he wants her now for no particular reason. I also don't like Harry and Ginny from Harry Potter because Harry does the same thing, not until book 7 does he even mention remotely being into Ginny and it's when she's with other guys, that feels very childish to me. And granted he was a child but Jack and Sally aren't. And no I don't think it's more important because communication is important in a relationship. I told my girlfriend I wasn't sure what I was feeling, that she made me happy but I wasn't sure if it was infatuation, or I genuinely liked her like that, or what because I hadn't dated anyone in a while. She told me she felt the same way. We saw each other, marinated in our feelings to see what was going on and decided we do actually like each other and want to pursue something. We talked. Couples talk. I'm not saying everyone's relationship has to be like mine but relationships cannot function on waiting for someone to figure out how you're feeling and moving to suit, grown ups talk about their feelings and wants. Communication is key, your partner can't read your mind. You have to tell them what you want from them.
@@LangkeeLongkee your comment is both immature and mature. Immature because I’m not pissed at all. NBC was one of my childhood movies and I loved Jack and Sally as a kid, so I’m just giving my take. But you’re very mature because I understand your points and your feelings and I’m glad that you’re willing to share them. All relationships are different, and some people are happier with things some wouldn’t be happy with, if that makes sense. For example, Sally was too shy to tell Jack she liked him. Even at the end, she didn’t say anything because she was too afraid of rejection and self doubt. So the whole time she focused on what he wanted, not on what she wanted. Ever heard that actions speak louder than words, because that perfectly fits Sally. And I thought it was established that they were both friends, or at least knew about each other. Jack knew that Sally could sew, hence why he had her make his Santa suit. But at the same time he ignores her when she tries to warn him that his plan isn’t gonna work out, because Jack is narcissistic. He had great intentions, but refused to believe that he was wrong. I’m sorry if my comment made it seem like Jack was perfect because he’s not. He’s “human” just like everybody else. He even tells her that he never noticed that she cared so much because he was too focused on himself. He never asked Sally to do everything she did for him. And he couldn’t believe he was so blind to not see it. A lot of times relationships develop under very weird and strange circumstances. A lot of times out of hate, like Hermione and Harry. Love isn’t perfect, and it’s often times messy. I agree that Jack and Sally should’ve developed more, but there’s only so much you can show in a movie that had love as a sub plot. I still think it has a beautiful message. I recommend you watch Corpse Bride, which focuses completely on love and happiness, with dark themes behind it. Again, sorry if I seemed harsh in my reply, I get what you’re saying. I just slightly disagree on certain things. I understand why people are weirded out by this ship, but I loved them as a kid and still do now
@@katlyndobransky2419 well that's weird of you to claim I'm immature for such a reason since I never claimed you were pissed?????? And that is a trait that you should work to overcome. Especially when Jack is not someone who's good at naturally picking up what she wants, it took him all movie. That's not an excuse for not being able to communicate. I'm not saying she's a terrible person but it's still a flaw in the relationship. It wasn't EASY for me to talk to my girl, or for her to talk to me, and is not easy for anyone to talk to their partner about certain things. These things are hard sometimes but it comes with the territory of love. Sometimes you have to talk about it. Even if you're shy you need to have those conversations. Actions do speak louder than words but actions are not across the board, actions are vague, actions don't always mean one thing, behaviour can be misinterpreted. Words offer clarity when not in direct opposition to the action. Actions speaking louder than words is all based on assumptions. You believe actions over words when it's clear the words are lies. And no it wasn't established they were both friends. They rarely ever spoke. And I'm not sure if it would make it better or worse if they did, cause that would he wasn't cought up in the Christmas thing before and STILL never noticed Sally wanted him until he realised and decided he wanted her in the same breath until the very end of the film. Love is not perfect. I know that. I'm just saying I don't buy how genuine Jack's feelings are. There is only so much you can do in a subplot, but much more could have been done. There have been much more developed side romances. And the movie was on the slightly shorter end, if they needed more time to develop they could have used it. I understand it's a lot of money and time in stop motion but they had the resources. Not calling them lazy, I just think the writing for them is choppy. And I've seen Corpse Bride. I think it has a similar but not quite the same problem. Victoria and Victor weren't very fleshed out, and their chemistry wasn't there. As a child I liked Emily more, still kinda do, but as a kid I wanted Victor to end up with Emily. Now I get why he didn't, but I don't feel his chemistry with Victoria either. I get that he doesn't love Emily, and good don't marry her if she's not the one you love, but they got on much better imo, they seemed to have more heart.
Jack is a tall, thin, "royal", bored out of his mind, who as soon as he experienced anything new he dived right in and said "@$!# the consequences" Yeah I think I figured out where Vivzipop got the idea for stollas
Yeah he was ironically kind of the “Villain” of his story in the movie now that I relooked into it. Not out of genuine malice but more like pure tunnel vision when he was obsessed with the Christmas-Halloween project. And Sally was the only person who tried getting his skeleton head out of his ass before things got worse.
I think part of the reason they really do work for me as a couple, despite how underdeveloped/rushed Jack's feelings for Sally can seem, is that both of them are still characters I like and identify with. Like, nothing turns me off a potential fictional couple more than one or both of them being cardboard cutouts, a prop for the more plot-important character to lust after. But that's not quite the case for these two, as they are relatively well-defined characters outside of their coupledom... at least when considering that this is a roughly 70-minute flick. So I want them to find more happiness together, because I understand each well enough as a character to believe hat the other COULD be their key to happiness.
@@silomenezes2935 Me too! i watched it with one of my friends on New Years and had a conversation about the pairings. I kinda made my pairing with Victor and Emily (I'm into ships that are strange, but have potential) and made my case using the film's logic (Which is oozing Tim's weird imagination) to sort of justify my case and ALSO give Victoria some more time in the spotlight and have her DEVELOP a relationship. Would it make sense in the real world? No, but it has potential. (That and I can't stand arranged marriages without the couple spending time first before the wedding date)
Sally deserved better. She deserved more screentime. They deserved more screentime together. I wish I could like them as a couple bc they definitely could've had chemistry... But then they got did dirty and got zero time towards actually developing that chemistry. An unmined nugget of gold left to just erode and fossilize
I was obsessed with Nightmare as a kid, and I was actually a kid when it came out. Rewatching it as an adult was funny because I realized what a drama queen Jack is.
One of the best things about this dude is that he never takes credit for himself when he uploads something. He always respects us, the audience, and he is always full of energy in his videos. Keep up the hard work!!!!!
@@anthonyrodriguez4905 it's honestly impressive asf that there is NO difference in Jack's singing voice vs his speaking voice. Usually there's almost always SOME sort of tell, so when actors and singers can make that bridge seamless it's pretty special. Like with Jeremy Iron and Jim Cummings in The Lion King song Be Prepared there's NO visible tell you have to be told where one actor ended the song the other picked it up. THAT'S talent.
As beautiful as the film is in and if itself, the relationship did feel incomplete, which is sad because you wouldn't know it just by looking at what the merchandise portrays.
Some people dunno but they did a cover soundtrack for the movie having various bands cover the songs. It was called "Nightmare before Christmas Revisited." You have Marylin Manson, Korn, Flyleaf and my personal favorite: Amy Lee singing Sally's Song. It can be hit or miss, but would recommend giving them a listen. It also has a bit of Danny Elfman narrating the ending where Jack and Sally had kids.
@@Tomha Yeah and I’m going to see the voice of Jack/composer and lyricist for the whole movie Danny Elfman do a rock concert for his own music this year
Jack goes through creative burnout and does a literal CULTURAL APPROPRIATION; the institutions let him do whatever he wants. Sally is the only one who understands this is not gonna go well (and clearly being incredibly capable) and tries to prevent this. She’s also almost successful in saving Santa. What Sally deserves is her freedom and enjoying that after realising he hasn’t seen her for the entirety of this trainwreck. If there absolutely needs to be a romance (and it honestly doesn’t), I want Jack to woo her with all the gusto he has for executing his festivities because Sally deserves nothing less
I almost got triggered by the title lol. As a kid I always thought they were perfect t couple goals. Now that I'm almost 30, I see what you mean. Great video, still love this couple.
One film that would fit your theme this month is Corpse Bride. It goes into the ups and downs of love and loss, and treats it with the utmost care and sensitivity while still keeping that Gothic tone we all love from Tim Burton.
I completely agree that Sally is the MVP of the movie it is definitely one of my favorite movies to watch for both Halloween and Christmas and I love how you mentioned that both Sally and Jack are basically the best Halloween couple when it comes to dressing up
I kindof always took it as Jack was too busy being the Pumpkin King to even consider a relationship, or even feelings. He obviously trusts and values Sally as a person, but the guy's so into what he does and buried in the responsibility that it hasn't even crossed his mind. He's always been the cornerstone of the town, so why would he need someone to rely on when he's the one everybody goes to? So when he gets the revelation that Sally wants to be there to help him with more than just to do Halloween better, his eyes are opened because finally someone understands. Finally someone sees past the front of looking always put together and thriving and needing nobody because he's the Pumpkin King.
"As a doctor who gave her life, but won't let her have one". I've never heard it put that before, but that describes Sally and Dr. Finkelstein's relationship perfectly.
I think the reason Sally had a vision is because she was a witch when she was alive, was caught, and was executed in a very brutal way, was adopted by the doctor in her afterlife, and insert rest of her story
Oh! I never thought about Sally being the hero of the movie and Jack the antagonist, but that makes so much sense (and probably adds to why it's so fun to see them get together at the end)! Loved all the character analysis in this!
Man, this movie is simply a classic. Even today, it will hold up great because of the way it's done. I love this movie so much and everytime I visit it in the Kingdom Hearts, I get excited. Jack and Sally just feel like they got so much going on below the surface that those few scenes they had in the movie had me falling for them so much. There is so much netween them and Sally really stood by Jack's side but wasn't afraid to try and stop him because she didn't want to see him hurt 🥰
It’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie but from I remember Jack constantly blows Sally off and just in general doesn’t pay attention to anything she says yeah that was due to him being obsessed with Christmas but the whole is basically her pining after Jack, she even has a song dedicated to it (Sally’s Song) and only at the end does he reciprocate her feelings.
It's so hilarious how a movie that's an hour and twelve minutes is now considered "short". I remember when a movie that was an hour and half was considered "long"! XD
There was a book about Sally that recently came out that takes place after the events of the film. If you think Sally's treatment by the doctor is bad in the movie, in the book you find out he literally kidnapped her from a different door realm as a small child. He then erased her memories of her home while also telling the citizens of Halloweentown that he created a living ragdoll.
This movie just makes me feels things. I accept that there are flaws, serious ones depending on how you view it, but I will NEVER stop adoring this film 🥰🥀
Yeah he was ironically kind of the “Villain” (using the term loosely of course) of his story in the movie now that I relooked into it. Not out of malice of course but more like pure tunnel vision when he was obsessed with the Christmas-Halloween project. Sally and Santa to a lesser extent were the only ones who tried getting his skeleton head out of his ass before things get worse.
Love this video! I am honestly shocked Disney hasn’t tried to reboot Nightmare yet, my guess is they have and the license is owned by someone else. I hope they never do!
I've seen this movie countless times because it was a favorite of both myself and my middle daughter. You know when you like a movie your kid likes, you're going to end up watching it a thousand times. Jack reminds me a great deal of myself, both in his positive and negative traits. His nature is kind and idealistic and he cares very much about the people around him, but he sometimes gets his head stuck his own ass and becomes deaf and blind to things going on outside the noise of his own head. As for whether Sally deserved better, she certainly deserved to have Jack pay more attention when she spoke to him, but he wasn't ignoring her maliciously. He just had his head up his own ass. I think he genuinely was completely oblivious to what he meant to her and thought she was trying to protect him for his own sake...and like me, he doesn't have a great deal of self-preservation instinct when he's chasing down a dream. I think if he'd realized that something bad happening to him would hurt *her*, he would have been less dismissive. He probably still would have gone through with his plans, because he's overconfident, but he would have given her more of his attention and taken her concerns more seriously. I don't think it would have changed much about how things played out, but he would have been less rude to her. I think that now that Jack as realized that Sally hasn't just been doting on the Pumpkin King like everyone else but actually truly cares for Jack as a person, I think he's going to pay much more attention to her, though I suspect his ADHD and ambitious nature will definitely still give Sally frustration from time to time. But let's be real...Sally's attraction to Jack was there before she knew he felt like an outsider too...and I suspect it was there because she was traits in him that she envied...his confidence, his comfort in a crowd, his vigor. Though she is quite courageous when she has a clear goal, she also seems to have a lot of anxiety she wishes she could shed. So when all is said and done, I think they'll have a beautiful relationship as they learn from each other and lean into each other because Sally wants to be more carefree like Jack, while Jack for the sake of his own safety and that of everyone else around needs to be more cautious like Sally...and I think getting blown the hell up has made him realize that. I don't like putting things in terms of could you do better or do you deserve better, unless the relationship is objectively detrimental to one or both parties. That kind of thinking is a great way to let perfect become the enemy of good in terms of relationships, which is why some people spend their whole lives constantly trying to trade up in their relationships. I don't think being with Jack is going to be detrimental to Sally at all...I think whatever frustrations might await her, they will be fairly manageable and pale in comparison to the positives that being hitched to a kind and loving monarch whose worst trait is he can be thoughtless when he's in his zone.
FUN FACT ABT SALLY!: so in the book made abt her called the pumkin queen basically u learn she was kidnapped from another realm (like the doors this one was like sandman kinda stuff with dreams and sleeping) and she was a daughter to two ragdoll parents there she used to be stuffed with this fluffy cotten but when the dr kidnapped her he restuffed her to make it seem like he made her. he A wanted a daughter and B wanted people to respect his "inventions"
Huh. Jack's "year-after-year" spiel doesn't work when you realize that the prequel game (yes, prequel game!) called Pumpkin King takes place only ONE YEAR before the film. And that's when he becomes, well, the Pumpkin King.
Agree that sometimes simple is best. The movie had such a basic concept and incredible aesetics and that’s what made it fun to watch. Along with an amazing soundtrack. And many great musicals are simple in that there is a grand revelation in the course of one song. So Jack going from ‘she’s a cool friend’ to ´wait, I might have caught deep feels’ in one ballad kind of tracks. 😂
They actually came out with a book that focuses on Sally that takes, like, a year or so after the movie? It's titled "Long Live the Pumpkin Queen" and it's about Sally having to rescue Halloween Town from the Sand Man. I'd be interesting if you took a look at it and made a video about your thoughts, maybe?
I can't believe I've been subscribed to your channel for so long and I'm just now seeing this video! The Nightmare Before Christmas is hands down one of my favorite movies of ALL time, there's just something about it. As you said, Jack and Sally are simply PERFECT. They have one of the most innocent, sweet, endearing romances of any fictional couple and that is why they're so timeless. I will literally NEVER stop loving the idea of the two of them. If only that kind of love existed for everyone in real life!
I just realized that the way you present this film and Jack trying to understand the holiday is how I felt when I was living in Korea and how Christmas is celebrated there and in Japan (albeit, Korea is a MUCH more Christian country than Japan and it's an actual holiday in Korea, like bank holiday, but the way the 2 countries celebrate it is similar). For those of us from more "christian" predominant countries that pretty much have always celebrated Christmas, that live/ed in Korea and Japan, experiencing it for the first time is quite bizarre. Much of the way they interpret it is through media (film, tv, music) from the west especially English speaking countries. And when that's all you really have to go off of, you start to think the holiday is a romantic holiday for couples and romance, which is exactly how they celebrate it. I mean the people there do kinda realize now that it's much more of a family holiday similar to chuseok (harvest moon festival) and seollal (lunar new year), but they still celebrate it much more like a couples/romantic holiday, it's so weird, lol. I was trying to get in a cozy fall mood a few evenings ago so I watched The Lake House (I know I know, it's not the best cinematically, but it's comforting, lol), and I decided to watch the original Korean version right after, Il Mare, hahahahhahhahah, of course it mostly takes place during Christmas, hahahahahaha. Strawberry cake is essential for the holiday for them, and I only found out after I got there that strawberry season in Korea and Japan starts around Christmas time and goes to February (pretty much all are grown in a hot house, I think because summers are a bit too humid and summer strawberries would go bad too fast in summer). As for fried chicken being the main meal in Japan on that day, that was all a marketing ploy, nothing else, some Japanese franchise person that went to the States and learned directly under Colonel Sanders the business, then he needed to figure out how to make big sales, and he lied and said that in the US that Christmas was THE holiday for fried chicken, hahahahahahhahaahha, and now it's embedded in the culture, lol, if I was a true blue capitalist I would think this guy was a genius.
The only weird thing about Sally's premonition (for me) is that it's only shown once and mentioned twice. It's hinted that this isn't the first time, but it's just brushed aside. Jack doesn't see Sally at first and that's a huge problem. Sally sees Jack as the good hearted but confused slightly jaded guy. She loves him and would do almost anything for him but also will speak up and tell him "You're wrong, and you can't do this" Even at the very end, Jack forgets about her until he sees Sally's creator with her replacement
In the book / Original story they have kids. So there is more past what the movie shows it does also touch into the relationship between the 2 much better.
It gets kind of funny when you think about the fact that this movie could have been Locked inside of Disney's vaults for nobody to see but thanks to the team they mannish to get this movie out and now it's a coat classic film that anybody can watch during Halloween or Christmas (Like if you're Feeling up for a bit of a spookiness for Christmas sure) but I do kinda wish we could have see more for Sally and Jack's relationship in the movie What happened really nice to see more of that but It did what it needed to to satisfy the watchers and that's all I can ask for.
I feel bad for them because not only were they not given a lot of screentime in the movie, but barely mentioned in the orginal book. Heck, the epilogue in the book only mentions Jack having a few skeleton children and that's it.
I think the problem is the fact that in the film Jack and Sally don’t really interact that much. Though at least Jack isn’t really negative to Sally, when Sally gives Jack something for his experiments Sally leaves before Jack has the chance to thank him and when he assigns her to make his costume he does encourage her when he thinks she’s referring to making his costume.
I had read a manga version and as I was reading it I realized that when it comes to Jack and Sally, their relationship really is one sided. I think it would be cool if Disney had released shorts based on their romantic relationship and we can see how Jack truly loves Sally.
If you like the book sequel with Sally as the main character, you'll be happy to know the official manga is actually a shojo and she is the main character as well~!
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Sally and Jack are the kind of couple that you love in concept and aesthetic but that doesn't have enough screentime or development in the movie. You love both of them as characters and you see how well they would work toguether so you want them to end toguether, Sally is that supportive girlfriend that enables Jack's creativity and new passions but knows when he is going too far and despite her shyness tries to keep him grounded, so she really is good for Jack, the problem is that we don't see in what aspects Jack is good for her. I do wish we got more interest from Jack's side on Sally during the movie, because her crush is really one-sided until the last minuts where he realises how munch she has done for him and falls in love with her. Still love the movie, the characters and this couple tough, just wish we could had seen more of them toguether.
Exactly, that's how I feel too. If only we saw more of them interacting in a positive and romantic way.
I think in the end that's why people like them so much; they can imagine what they would be like as an actual couple vs seeing that played out and it lives into the fantasy element of it all. But for me, while I don't think it would be all that you know...ROMANTIC I do think it would be the most practical and realistic relationship. The poem states that they do go on to have several children don't even ask how that's possible, so the fact that that happens says a lot I think about their maturity level to decide to have children in whatever weird way they might have had them lol.
In the Pumpkin Queen book they explore their relationship a bit more. How she is hesitant on her title and leaving Halloween town. He tries to push her to expand her horizons. The book gets super mushy and romantic but sadly I don't see myself finishing it.
They’re probably like Danny Elfman and Bridget Fonda. Danny is too busy with his work to spend much time with her and she seems to be ok with that.
I'd say Jack's contribution to Sally is the same as his contribution to everyone in Halloween Town. He makes their lives exciting and gives them purpose. If Jack wasn't around to lead the charge then at some point the entire town would become afflicted with the same burnout that Jack experienced. He's the bulwark standing between them and boredom with the status quo that is their lives. We have no idea how long people live in Halloween town but it's probably fair to say that they've been doing this for decades at a minimum up to hundreds if not thousands of years. He's an absolutely essential cultural icon for all of them since he serves as a reminder of what they aspire to be and prevents the question of why they are doing it from ever coming up.
Totally do the Addams family! Gomez and Mortia is what everyone in a romantic comedy wishes they could be
Masochist?
@@radiogobrrrrrrr1949 that's part of it but their relationship just works if you watch The Addams family cartoon series they go into more detail about the relationship Morticia said originally her sister was supposed to marry Gomez not her
I would click on a Gomez Morticia video so fast....
Yaas.
He did, but for the live action version (which is better as far as the two go)
Although it does feel one-sided at times, I really like just how much Jack truly values her. He doesn't see her as a prop or as just one of his fans, he acknowledges how skilled she is and trusts her with something as big as his costume, actually calling her his friend.
I like them a lot, they're very cute together. Wish they'd had more screen time.
I agree! I think it's more that he thinks she's taken and that he becomes infatuated with Christmas, but he obviously cares about her throughout the movie and values her as an individual. I do wish they had more screentime, but idk i personally thought it was pretty well done all things considered
I think though the only scenes we see of him appreciating her is 1. When Sally sneaks out to give him stuff for his experiments and when he’s about to thank her she’s gone before he has the chance. And 2. When Sally is trying to warn him about his Christmas but he assumes she’s talking about the Santa Claus costume and he thinks she’s being modest and has full confidence in her making it great.
I always took "the pumpkin king" as more of a actually title rather than a nickname. I genuinely always thought that he was the monarch of Halloween, thus he couldn't just step out of it and the mayor needed him to take the actual decisions, no just a local celebrity's
Whatever Jack is the citizens hold him in complete reverence.
Jack is the official king of Halloween. They Mayor even says so in the film, "Jack I'm only an elected official, I can't make any decisions by myself." Which implies that Jack has the final say in what happens during Halloween in the real world and in Halloween Town, and isn't just the mayor being a bumbling buffoon.
No you had it right he is the monarch of Halloween
He's also a local celebrity but that's because he's very very good at being the actual monarch
He's also an elected monarch tho, according to one of the side piece mini-books. Well not elected, but they had a contest and Jack won
There's actually a book about Sally becoming the Pumpkin Queen. Do recommend.
Yeah, he mentioned it in the video.
I'm gonna start it this month!
That book feels like fanfiction
Awesome.👌🏼
@@rosykindbunny1313 let us know what you think about it!!
Jack is the ADHD rep that I didn't realize I needed in my life
SO TRUE
What’s this ? What’s THIS !? 😂😂😂
@@sabisweet There's Christmas everywhere!
OH MY GOD this is my new headcannon
Jack has a hyper fixation and everyone else is confused
-The movie 🍿🎥
story of my life XD
real
bro had a tism moment and made it everyone's problem for better or for worse
Sally pined for Jack most of the film, then suddenly a switch goes on inside Jack, and he likes her back at the end. Too one-sided; they barely spend much time together before the end.
For real! As a kid the climatic romantic moment at the end was jarring! Even when Jack snaps out of his funk it wasn’t because of something he remembered she said or something she gave him. It’s a great movie overall but fell on developing the romantic subplot.
i think he always liked her and respected her, he usually trusted her with important tasks or confided in her but it finally clicked that he was fixating on something he couldn’t have when what he needed was right there in front of him. that’s how i always saw it as a kid since i loved this move to death
She got him when he was emotionally vulnerable+riding the high of giving up and retiring to the familiar.
There is supposed an epilogue of the movie but didn't get put in, they actually have kids together. You're able to listen to it on spotify.
To be fair, some people ARE that oblivious.
Even as a kid their romance confused me. I knew that Sally was into Jack, but it just seemed like he didn't notice her so much throughout the majority of the film. Then he was suddenly like okay I'm into You now at the end.
Supposedly they added some stuff later on to go a little more in depth into their relationship through other mediums. Just yesterday I saw that they have a book called The pumpkin Queen and this is after Sally gets the crown. Haven't read it and I'm not even sure if this is Cannon or not.
Yeah, he mentioned the book in the video.
Same!!
Agreed. I was also pretty confused with it as a kid and barely even noticed that SHE also liked him in that way. I just sorta thought she thought he was an interesting person and followed him around because she was bored of being locked away. Jack never really noticed her outside of the things she could do for him. No different than how he directed the other members of the town to do various things with their talents. Definitely a good potential romance building point, but I don't feel like it achieved a romance deserving of the soliloquy at the end. The romance sorta feels slapped on and out of place by the end because you don't really get any sort of desire for romance AT ALL with Jack.
You should definitely read the book! It was approved by Tim burton and the novel really uproots the problems in sally and jacks relationship and improves them in my opinion, nicely! Some sweet stuff
While I like their relationship, I thought the same thing
Like, what made him say "my feelings for you have came suddenly"
As much as I love Jack and Sally, their relationship at the end of the movie confused me, even as a kid. I knew Sally liked Jack, but Jack only saw her as a friend and was completely dense until the end. It just came out of nowhere.
Finally someone said it
If this couple could be boiled down to a Madame de Stael quote, it'd be this: "Love is the whole history of a woman's life, it is but an episode in a man's."
True, I think that's because people are used to seeing one sided relationships. She actually loves him, and he's just like 'meh'.
@@jl2280 tbh, comparing a movie and a novel in general is not fair game, movies have much less time to work with and can't directly show the inner thoughts of characters
So yes, the statement in itself is true, but I think it can be said for almost every comparison between movie and novel outside of rare exceptions, novel characters are much more developed and complex on average
I watch this film every October, and the thing that ALWAYS sells me on these two is the scene where Jack is researching the scientific method and getting in his head about the meaning of Christmas, and then it cuts to Sally making her care package. That shared visual of ~science~ showcases Jack's dedication and Sally's practice, showcases their thought processes, and, most importantly, communicates that they are both incredibly intelligent people in different, compatible ways.
They compliment each other in that they're both very capable and thoughtful, they're both creatives, and they both feel like the odd ones out, but Jack is bold where Sally is underhanded, and Jack is optimistic where Sally is pessimistic. They potentially have a lot to teach each other. The movie doesn't devote a lot of time to developing them, but it does do a good job of creating two characters who come off as a very good fit for each other even without that development.
I think that's the best way to put it. The movie doesn't do much to develop them as a couple...but that isn't the main plot of the movie and the runtime is pretty short. What it does do effectively is show these two as individuals and their individual personalities are fairly compatible. It can make them getting together seem rushed, but the idea that they'd get together EVENTUALLY makes perfect sense.
This movie is my favorite movie, because I think of how simple it is. It brings a certain charm to the movie. The animation also is to die to for, and song numbers, great. However, even though it's simple, I do think there's quite a lot to unpack with Jack. I think one reason why a LOT of people LOVE Jack, is he's far from perfect even though he's a leader; that's really relatable. But he's not some corrupt leader either, who hides away his mistakes, who tries to skirt owning up to them. Proof of this is his moment in the human world's cemetery, where he realizes he fcked up, but he did his best, and gets himself back on his feet. AND he apologies for his actions. That takes a lot of courage to do, vs being a coward about it.
One thing I was actually always confused on was Jack and Sally's relationship. I'm often left wondering how long have they known each other cause in the movie's context, where it is currently, the relationship we see tends to lean in on the "for a while" aspect, since they refer to each other as friends, but if they WERE friends, then wouldn't there be more scenes of them together? To try and showcase Jack isn't as alone as he feels he is? And what would a relationship between them be like since Sally clearly has a lot of issues, (makes sense) would Jack be able to see them and handle them accordingly? I dunno there's a LOT to unpack there. But that's why I love it. I don't think it would be a perfect relationship, but I think Jack and Sally would have a more REALISTIC relationship.
Perhaps more friends in the neighborly acquaintance kind of way. I have neighbors I've waved to regularly and made chit chat for YEARS , but I don't necessarily hang out with them on the regular, let alone bear my soul to them. Maybe Sally was more of that.
@@JupiterTarts THAT makes a lot of sense actually. Like even with my being in an apartment, I only know one neighbor, and just their first names. So I can see that sort of situation with Jack and Sally. Not to mention Jack is KIND of oblivious but I don't think he's MEAN about that either. I think a lot of people misinterpret the scene of Sally trying to tell Jack of her vision and Jack steamrolling her as him completely ignoring her. But it's clear he's hearing SOME of what she's saying but not all of it. Selective hearing at its finest lol. I feel like I'd love hanging out with Jack in real life, because he just seems like a nice guy overall. Very charming and dapper for a dead guy lol.
Remember the scene where Sally brought Jack food when he was thinking about Christmas? I think that’s a good representation of her taking care of Jack when everyone else was just keeping their distance. Jack doesn’t even seem surprised by it, and waves to Sally with a silent smile, instead of in his usually loud and welcoming manner. It’s not weird to imagine this isn’t the first time Sally brought food to Jack when he was busy and likely not taking care of himself. I can imagine this happened many times before, but Sally always left before Jack could talk to her.
Also in the scene after Oogie Boogie is defeated, Jack figures out that Sally was down there because she was trying to help him, and he’s flabbergasted! Even saying “I can’t believe I never realised that you-“ before being interrupted by the Trick or Treat kids.
Those scenes can tell us that that Sally was always there for Jack and he was never aware because he felt so alone. That moment of clarity for him after the Oogie Boogie fight was him thinking “I never realised how much you were actually by my side”. He saw Sally as a good friend before, but he never realised just how much she cared about his well-being to the point where she was even trying to prevent him from making mistakes.
A big difference between Sally and the other villagers is that she’s the only one who goes against Jacks wishes, which shows that despite her love for Jack, she still isn’t going to everything he says, which just shows that this relationship wouldn’t take away her independence at all. But the reasons she goes against him isn’t like when she went against Dr Finklestein. She goes against him because she KNOWS his plan is stupid and she doesn’t want him to get hurt or make a big mistake. Jack sadly doesn’t realise she’s trying to help him because he’s too wrapped up in this whole thing and honestly nobody has ever said “no” to him before.
Jack is surrounded by people who are just “yes-men” and he was still in the mindset that he was alone, so he didn’t suspect that Sally was ACTUALLY worried about him. Nobody really tells Jack if they’re worried about him, as shown by the Mayor when its revealed after Jacks “death” that he didn’t like the Christmas idea from the beginning, but he still fully encouraged it because it was Jacks idea, and it was also shown when the towns people were all wondering and worrying about Jack during “Jacks Obsession”, even worrying about him dying, but still left him alone and didn’t check on him. Sally was the only one who did! So when it’s revealed how much Sally cared for him and worried for him, to even go as far as try to warn him and stop him when nobody else would’ve, yeah I can see why Jack realises his feelings for Sally, the person who always cared for him but he never fully realised how much until now.
As for Sally and her issues, the song she sings (Sallys Song) mentions how she would like to join in with everyone else and just be able to stand by Jack, but her worry for him and the vision she had of him destroying Christmas overtook that want. The song also highlights how her upbringing with Finkelstein made her feel insignificant, and that Jack could never love her back. She also calls him a “dear friend”, which just strengthens the fact that they have a history.
Idk if people will have an issue with this, but Sally being loved by Jack is one of the ways she gains confidence at the end. The final scene has her slowly slipping away from the crowd and going off alone, like Jack did at the beginning of the movie. Sally is still not “part of the crowd” and she never really was, so she just disappears like always. When we see her sit on the top of the hill, she has a smile on her face and is plucking the petals of a flower, the same flower that manifested into a visions to her. That makes me think she was content and proud of herself, because what she did helped save her loved one and helped him realise his mistakes, and doesn’t regret any of it. And then we see Jack. For the first time, it’s Jack that approaches Sally. Jack calls her his “dearest friend” and asks if he’s allowed to sit by Sally, asks if she minds if he did. Sally said before that she wished she could stand by him but she doesn’t feel worthy, but now Jacks here, asking HER if he was allowed to sit by her. Jack says how he’d like to gaze at the stars with Sally, and Sally realises then that Jack loves her as well, as she joins in the song. They both sing about how they want to be together. They want to share experiences and do things TOGETHER. They both weren’t alone anymore. Both figures, both people who felt alone for so long, finally find eachother and happiness.
And the song ends with them both saying that it was “simply meant to be”, contradicting what Sally said before when her insecurities made her think her and Jack would never be together, and how she regrets feeling the way she does. This end scene shows that she doesn’t regret her actions or feelings anymore. She doesn’t regret trying to stop Jacks Christmas because it helped him, and she doesn’t regret loving him because she realises that she can be loved back.
Say what you want about these two, but sometimes someone loving and respecting you the same as you feel about them can help you realise that you are worth being loved.
This movie is my favourite of all time and I’ll probably love it till the ends of the earth, and these two are no exception. Sorry if I rambled for too long and I hope I made sense.
@@laraschroeder5195 Beautiful comment (o´∀`o) I read the whole thing and I agree.
Jack was in a rut, tried something new, failed once, and gave up forever.
Truly a millennial icon.
No, he tried something new and realized it's not something that's really him.
It was a bad idea from the start
jack skellington is adhd coded because i, an adhd having person, feels being burnt out from something you love, throwing all your energy into a new hyperfixation, accidentally being clueless and aloof around other, people pleasing, and ultimately hating myself and moping when i realize i was doing too much
Rather than him being ADHD coded, I think you just relate to him, which is cool too.
@@liamorrison4484 OP prolly relates cause he's seeing the symptoms that got him(and me) ratted out to a doctor lolol. If that ain't ADHD coding, idk what is
So that's why I relate to him so much
He’s based heavily on Danny Elfman who wrote all the lyrics which the rest of the script was based on and sang all of his lines and related to his predicament being sick of his band Oingo Boingo and wanting to quit and do film composing instead. Danny said he would have definitely been diagnosed with ADHD if he were born in a younger generation. Oh and he’s finally returned to doing his rock star thing this year just as Jack returned to doing Halloween.
Same, and I too relate to having an identity crisis when my interests change-- like, who am I anymore if I'm super into this new thing? Am I even the same person?
It can be super stressful
I always felt that Sally is the one that just came out of her own tv series and this movie is just following the finale to give us a more epic plot.
If you deep dive into the dialogue (and why wouldnt I?) you notice that Sally has been sneaking out for somewhere under a year to be in this Halloween play= the sequence she appears in is a partnership between her and the wind who specifically references 'blowing through your hair" and Sally is the only character with long hair. So the latest spate of poisonings were her probably trying to make all of the last minute rehearsals.
Her and the hanging tree hang out a lot like introverted friends and she needs extra leaves since the doctor doesnt seem to realise she can repair herself. Nobody in the town double takes when they see her creeping around and even the musicians don't rat her out when she runs away and starts sleeping rough.
Jack also knows her personally, knows her talents and skillset like sewing and her problem solving abilities and they talk like equals on the rare occasions they DO talk. I would even argue the crush doesn't REALLY take hold until she heard him singing. Until then she was just following the town women's example. The small witch humping his leg is a standout to model behaviour.
I'd also like to point out that the doctor is quite despicable in his treatment of her, but hes really more of an introverted father than something suspect. After all he sits up all night waiting for her to come back (even if it was reluctantly), never really yells at or threatens her and his terrible punishment to the latest poisoning was to lock her in her room for a few hours.
If anything its like he wanted a daughter but confused filial piety with slavery, which makes sense since he treats his Igor like a dog with opposable thumbs. He even looked offended when Sally pointed out he could make another creation. I'm sure my mum would give me the same look if I told her she was welcome to have another kid if I wasn't up to standard.
The eventual replacement he made wasnt another child, but a literal other half. Since now theyll both want the same thing and are incomplete without the other.
insightful
Really nice analysis!!
They don't have much screentime, but Jack truly DOES value and love Sally. He only really stops to listen Sally, seeks out her input, and asks her to make the most important part
Yess you are 100% right he doesn’t not listen to her he’s just doesn’t understanding what she is saying may people get that confused and he does value her ❤️🖤
He´s the literal master of her dimension, her world lol. Jack learning to love her is similar to re-learns to love himself, Halloween, and Halloween-town.
Idk if that’s a good thing.
@@Barakon all love is self love, empathy is seeing yourself in others
I'm used to seeing fictional women be conceived for the sole purpose of _rewarding_ the bland, generic "everyman" male protagonist (with few redeeming qualities) for resolving a conflict. But Sally is a slight step up for a couple of different reasons.
1.) Jack and Sally have a history together! They both refer to each other as their "dearest friend". So it's easier for me to accept them coming together than most instances, wherein an incompetent/inexperienced man meets a hypercompetent woman for the first time in Act 1 and they're making out by Act 3. Speaking of that trope...
2.) Jack is already the very _best_ at what he does, so he doesn't need Sally to babysit him. Not _really._ Sure he would have had a better time if he had actually listened to his friend at any point in the story _before_ he leaves for the human world, but after he fails, he picks himself back up, cleans up his own sht, confronts Sally and basically tells her straight up that he wasn't appreciating her help like he should have. Idk, I'm sure I have more thoughts, but I just think they're neat(er than average)
Sally and Jake are one of my favorite Disney couples. I love how they are both kind, sweet, and supportive towards each other. I especially love how they call each other “Dear friend” showing how deeply they care about each other. Jack being an outgoing and more of an extrovert and Sally being a sweet, shy introvert, these two perfectly complete each other and I love these two. They really are simply meant to be. 💖
When it comes to her home life, she definitely deserves better. She deserves to have freedom and a voice.
I feel Jack was the only one who treated her with decency and he trusted her to make his suit for a reason. When people are excited and eager, it makes sense that he did not heed her warning.
I do love them as a couple because friendship to lovers, obviously, but they can relate and understand each other as well as see the other for who they truly are. They balance each other out with their optimism/pessimism.
I know your comment is 9 months old and the video is 10 months old. But atleast oogie boogie was trying his best trying to be positive towards sally when she was starting to sew herself. But yes she definitely deserves better.
i loved watching this movie when i was younger. Sally and Jack were what my idea of love was.
Same
i think as a ship works well, esp because by the movie events we don't see them as a couple but more of a "oh heck yeah they gonna start dating" at least that's how I read that
I still think they’re perfect for each other. Sometimes love doesn’t have to “develop.” Jack was just oblivious to Sally’s feelings because he was too caught up in his own world. He had a reputation to fill fil but wanted something more out of life. He didn’t realize that what he wanted was right in front of him. And that’s realistic. It’s not like they immediately got together right from the start. It took the entire movie for Jack to realize that Sally was what he needed all along
I dunno I still don't vibe with it. It came across like "wow you help me, I guess I like you back."
Love needs to develop in some form or fashion otherwise it just comes across as infatuation. I dunno, maybe that's just me, but if I liked someone and I did nice things for them and suddenly they wanted me after they realised how useful I was.... I'd feel used.
@@LangkeeLongkee I don’t know if I’d see Sally feeling used though. I think the message is more that we strive for something more in life whenever sometimes you have to just look around. I mean if Jack DIDN’T get with Sally after all that she did for him, I’d be extremely pissed if I was her. I think the message is that Jack always cared about her but was too blind with his own life to see how much she cared about him. She never directly told him, he figured it out himself. And I think that’s more important than having that person tell you themselves.
@@katlyndobransky2419 I'm not saying she IS being used I'm saying your logic isn't foolproof.
And you being extremely pissed off is weird.... It's giving nice guy. Someone isn't owned another person's affection for being nice to them or doing nice things for them. I dunno if you're in a relationship or how old you are but that's not how that works.
And how could he always care about her he didn't know her. And if that's what they were trying to do it was poorly done because they never established he even saw her like truly saw her. It seemed like he went from knowing she existe and acknowledging her to "love of my life perhaps??????" in his own head and that's weird to me. Maybe it's because I'm gay, but I always found it weird in stories when a woman is pining and waiting around for a man to decide he wants her now for no particular reason. I also don't like Harry and Ginny from Harry Potter because Harry does the same thing, not until book 7 does he even mention remotely being into Ginny and it's when she's with other guys, that feels very childish to me. And granted he was a child but Jack and Sally aren't.
And no I don't think it's more important because communication is important in a relationship. I told my girlfriend I wasn't sure what I was feeling, that she made me happy but I wasn't sure if it was infatuation, or I genuinely liked her like that, or what because I hadn't dated anyone in a while. She told me she felt the same way. We saw each other, marinated in our feelings to see what was going on and decided we do actually like each other and want to pursue something. We talked. Couples talk. I'm not saying everyone's relationship has to be like mine but relationships cannot function on waiting for someone to figure out how you're feeling and moving to suit, grown ups talk about their feelings and wants. Communication is key, your partner can't read your mind. You have to tell them what you want from them.
@@LangkeeLongkee your comment is both immature and mature. Immature because I’m not pissed at all. NBC was one of my childhood movies and I loved Jack and Sally as a kid, so I’m just giving my take. But you’re very mature because I understand your points and your feelings and I’m glad that you’re willing to share them. All relationships are different, and some people are happier with things some wouldn’t be happy with, if that makes sense. For example, Sally was too shy to tell Jack she liked him. Even at the end, she didn’t say anything because she was too afraid of rejection and self doubt. So the whole time she focused on what he wanted, not on what she wanted. Ever heard that actions speak louder than words, because that perfectly fits Sally. And I thought it was established that they were both friends, or at least knew about each other. Jack knew that Sally could sew, hence why he had her make his Santa suit. But at the same time he ignores her when she tries to warn him that his plan isn’t gonna work out, because Jack is narcissistic. He had great intentions, but refused to believe that he was wrong. I’m sorry if my comment made it seem like Jack was perfect because he’s not. He’s “human” just like everybody else. He even tells her that he never noticed that she cared so much because he was too focused on himself. He never asked Sally to do everything she did for him. And he couldn’t believe he was so blind to not see it. A lot of times relationships develop under very weird and strange circumstances. A lot of times out of hate, like Hermione and Harry. Love isn’t perfect, and it’s often times messy. I agree that Jack and Sally should’ve developed more, but there’s only so much you can show in a movie that had love as a sub plot. I still think it has a beautiful message. I recommend you watch Corpse Bride, which focuses completely on love and happiness, with dark themes behind it. Again, sorry if I seemed harsh in my reply, I get what you’re saying. I just slightly disagree on certain things. I understand why people are weirded out by this ship, but I loved them as a kid and still do now
@@katlyndobransky2419 well that's weird of you to claim I'm immature for such a reason since I never claimed you were pissed??????
And that is a trait that you should work to overcome. Especially when Jack is not someone who's good at naturally picking up what she wants, it took him all movie. That's not an excuse for not being able to communicate. I'm not saying she's a terrible person but it's still a flaw in the relationship. It wasn't EASY for me to talk to my girl, or for her to talk to me, and is not easy for anyone to talk to their partner about certain things. These things are hard sometimes but it comes with the territory of love. Sometimes you have to talk about it. Even if you're shy you need to have those conversations. Actions do speak louder than words but actions are not across the board, actions are vague, actions don't always mean one thing, behaviour can be misinterpreted. Words offer clarity when not in direct opposition to the action. Actions speaking louder than words is all based on assumptions. You believe actions over words when it's clear the words are lies.
And no it wasn't established they were both friends. They rarely ever spoke. And I'm not sure if it would make it better or worse if they did, cause that would he wasn't cought up in the Christmas thing before and STILL never noticed Sally wanted him until he realised and decided he wanted her in the same breath until the very end of the film.
Love is not perfect. I know that. I'm just saying I don't buy how genuine Jack's feelings are. There is only so much you can do in a subplot, but much more could have been done. There have been much more developed side romances. And the movie was on the slightly shorter end, if they needed more time to develop they could have used it. I understand it's a lot of money and time in stop motion but they had the resources. Not calling them lazy, I just think the writing for them is choppy.
And I've seen Corpse Bride. I think it has a similar but not quite the same problem. Victoria and Victor weren't very fleshed out, and their chemistry wasn't there. As a child I liked Emily more, still kinda do, but as a kid I wanted Victor to end up with Emily. Now I get why he didn't, but I don't feel his chemistry with Victoria either. I get that he doesn't love Emily, and good don't marry her if she's not the one you love, but they got on much better imo, they seemed to have more heart.
You don’t give the power of Gomez and Morticia enough credit, there’s a reason people were comparing Félix from Encanto to Gomez.
marriage goals, those two.
Jack is a tall, thin, "royal", bored out of his mind, who as soon as he experienced anything new he dived right in and said "@$!# the consequences"
Yeah I think I figured out where Vivzipop got the idea for stollas
I'd much rather hang out with Jack than Stolas though lol. There's SOMETHING about Jack that just always drew me to him as a character.
Yeah he was ironically kind of the “Villain” of his story in the movie now that I relooked into it. Not out of genuine malice but more like pure tunnel vision when he was obsessed with the Christmas-Halloween project.
And Sally was the only person who tried getting his skeleton head out of his ass before things got worse.
Oooooh 🤔🤣👍
@@TheRibottoStudios Well Jack isn't supposed to be evil while Stolas kinda is by virtue of being part of Hell
I thought it was widely known that Vivziepop uses Tim Burton as a big influence.
"The recovery from burn out is to work on a new project and nearly die"
holy sh-
I think part of the reason they really do work for me as a couple, despite how underdeveloped/rushed Jack's feelings for Sally can seem, is that both of them are still characters I like and identify with. Like, nothing turns me off a potential fictional couple more than one or both of them being cardboard cutouts, a prop for the more plot-important character to lust after. But that's not quite the case for these two, as they are relatively well-defined characters outside of their coupledom... at least when considering that this is a roughly 70-minute flick. So I want them to find more happiness together, because I understand each well enough as a character to believe hat the other COULD be their key to happiness.
This is gonna be a great month! Would Corpse Bride happen to be on your radar, I think you could get some good stuff out of it.
That is a can of worms he'll probably suffer through. Although, I can see him going Victor X Victoria
Yes, please Corpse Bride! It doesn't get the attention it deserves!
Would love to see the Sarcastic Chorus take on the Victor/Emily/Victoria love triangle from Corpse Bride if he’s seen it
YESSS!!!
I support this!
@@silomenezes2935 Me too! i watched it with one of my friends on New Years and had a conversation about the pairings. I kinda made my pairing with Victor and Emily (I'm into ships that are strange, but have potential) and made my case using the film's logic (Which is oozing Tim's weird imagination) to sort of justify my case and ALSO give Victoria some more time in the spotlight and have her DEVELOP a relationship. Would it make sense in the real world? No, but it has potential. (That and I can't stand arranged marriages without the couple spending time first before the wedding date)
He's gotta be touching on that one if he's doing spooky couples
I LOVE THAT MOVIE!
Sally deserved better. She deserved more screentime. They deserved more screentime together. I wish I could like them as a couple bc they definitely could've had chemistry... But then they got did dirty and got zero time towards actually developing that chemistry. An unmined nugget of gold left to just erode and fossilize
I was obsessed with Nightmare as a kid, and I was actually a kid when it came out. Rewatching it as an adult was funny because I realized what a drama queen Jack is.
One of the best things about this dude is that he never takes credit for himself when he uploads something. He always respects us, the audience, and he is always full of energy in his videos. Keep up the hard work!!!!!
@beyond your imagination So is this lol.
th-cam.com/video/zIq__qsqlOA/w-d-xo.html
@beyond your imagination bot
MO moo
Henry Selick directing this is getting more credit now thankfully ❤️🧡
Danny Elfman should get credit too for writing all the lyrics which pretty much formed the basis of the story.
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 And he gets it for voicing Jack when he's singing
@@anthonyrodriguez4905 Yeah I saw him sing it live. And this year I’m going to see him sing his own music live.
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 cool!!
@@anthonyrodriguez4905 it's honestly impressive asf that there is NO difference in Jack's singing voice vs his speaking voice. Usually there's almost always SOME sort of tell, so when actors and singers can make that bridge seamless it's pretty special. Like with Jeremy Iron and Jim Cummings in The Lion King song Be Prepared there's NO visible tell you have to be told where one actor ended the song the other picked it up. THAT'S talent.
Hopeful disney never makes live action remake the nightmare before christmas.
Hopefully that never gets spoken into existence 😟
DONT GIVE THEM IDEAS!!!😥😥😥
They won’t as long as Tim Burton and Danny Elfman are still alive.
Sally was honestly a girlboss the entire movie
As beautiful as the film is in and if itself, the relationship did feel incomplete, which is sad because you wouldn't know it just by looking at what the merchandise portrays.
note: in the original scritp, the doctor was supossed to be the boogieman, but they cut off in the final project.
Some people dunno but they did a cover soundtrack for the movie having various bands cover the songs. It was called "Nightmare before Christmas Revisited." You have Marylin Manson, Korn, Flyleaf and my personal favorite: Amy Lee singing Sally's Song. It can be hit or miss, but would recommend giving them a listen.
It also has a bit of Danny Elfman narrating the ending where Jack and Sally had kids.
I really liked Nightmare Revisited.
I went to the last Nightmare concert where they had Weird Al Yankovic and Billie Eilish fill in for Catherine O’Hara’s parts.
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 aww man that sounds awesome
@@Tomha Yeah and I’m going to see the voice of Jack/composer and lyricist for the whole movie Danny Elfman do a rock concert for his own music this year
Jack goes through creative burnout and does a literal CULTURAL APPROPRIATION; the institutions let him do whatever he wants. Sally is the only one who understands this is not gonna go well (and clearly being incredibly capable) and tries to prevent this. She’s also almost successful in saving Santa.
What Sally deserves is her freedom and enjoying that after realising he hasn’t seen her for the entirety of this trainwreck. If there absolutely needs to be a romance (and it honestly doesn’t), I want Jack to woo her with all the gusto he has for executing his festivities because Sally deserves nothing less
I almost got triggered by the title lol. As a kid I always thought they were perfect t couple goals. Now that I'm almost 30, I see what you mean. Great video, still love this couple.
One film that would fit your theme this month is Corpse Bride. It goes into the ups and downs of love and loss, and treats it with the utmost care and sensitivity while still keeping that Gothic tone we all love from Tim Burton.
I completely agree that Sally is the MVP of the movie it is definitely one of my favorite movies to watch for both Halloween and Christmas and I love how you mentioned that both Sally and Jack are basically the best Halloween couple when it comes to dressing up
If you wish to see more of their dynamic, the books have a good amount
I kindof always took it as Jack was too busy being the Pumpkin King to even consider a relationship, or even feelings. He obviously trusts and values Sally as a person, but the guy's so into what he does and buried in the responsibility that it hasn't even crossed his mind. He's always been the cornerstone of the town, so why would he need someone to rely on when he's the one everybody goes to? So when he gets the revelation that Sally wants to be there to help him with more than just to do Halloween better, his eyes are opened because finally someone understands. Finally someone sees past the front of looking always put together and thriving and needing nobody because he's the Pumpkin King.
I don't think Jack was mad at the townsfolk, I think he was more upset that the humans blew him up just for wanting to bring them his Christmas joy.
I mean maybe they inspired blink-182's I Miss You with lyric "We'll live like Jack and Sally"
I’m so happy others are talking about this. As a kid I never understood why they got together.
Can we talk about how the boogeyman just goes "oh shit" the moment he sees Jack.
Coming up with the seasonal videos now. Happy Spooky Month!
Jack is:
Stubborn as a mule
Completely impulsive
Doesn't listen
Arguably narcisssitic
Puts his trust in people he KNOWS not to trust
I haven't watched this movie at all and have only ever gleamed the plot from playing Kingdom Hearts, but even I know that Sally deserves better.
@RR Jokes on you, I got an ad before the video started so I technically didn't fall for the Rick roll.
Meanwhile, most of the people who have ACTUALLY watched the damn movie looking at you like the clown you are:
"As a doctor who gave her life, but won't let her have one". I've never heard it put that before, but that describes Sally and Dr. Finkelstein's relationship perfectly.
I think the reason Sally had a vision is because she was a witch when she was alive, was caught, and was executed in a very brutal way, was adopted by the doctor in her afterlife, and insert rest of her story
Oh! I never thought about Sally being the hero of the movie and Jack the antagonist, but that makes so much sense (and probably adds to why it's so fun to see them get together at the end)! Loved all the character analysis in this!
Loved this video and the light shines on Sally and Jack as people and characters. I'm very excited for the Morticia and Gomez video you mentioned.
Man, this movie is simply a classic. Even today, it will hold up great because of the way it's done. I love this movie so much and everytime I visit it in the Kingdom Hearts, I get excited. Jack and Sally just feel like they got so much going on below the surface that those few scenes they had in the movie had me falling for them so much. There is so much netween them and Sally really stood by Jack's side but wasn't afraid to try and stop him because she didn't want to see him hurt 🥰
It’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie but from I remember Jack constantly blows Sally off and just in general doesn’t pay attention to anything she says yeah that was due to him being obsessed with Christmas but the whole is basically her pining after Jack, she even has a song dedicated to it (Sally’s Song) and only at the end does he reciprocate her feelings.
It's so hilarious how a movie that's an hour and twelve minutes is now considered "short". I remember when a movie that was an hour and half was considered "long"! XD
There was a book about Sally that recently came out that takes place after the events of the film. If you think Sally's treatment by the doctor is bad in the movie, in the book you find out he literally kidnapped her from a different door realm as a small child. He then erased her memories of her home while also telling the citizens of Halloweentown that he created a living ragdoll.
This movie just makes me feels things. I accept that there are flaws, serious ones depending on how you view it, but I will NEVER stop adoring this film 🥰🥀
Oh man a sarcastic summary of the night before Christmas could be a lot of fun. Who cares if the format is old, it's good and it's how we found you.
Yeah he was ironically kind of the “Villain” (using the term loosely of course) of his story in the movie now that I relooked into it. Not out of malice of course but more like pure tunnel vision when he was obsessed with the Christmas-Halloween project. Sally and Santa to a lesser extent were the only ones who tried getting his skeleton head out of his ass before things get worse.
Love this video! I am honestly shocked Disney hasn’t tried to reboot Nightmare yet, my guess is they have and the license is owned by someone else. I hope they never do!
For now they’re cashing in on having the voice actors do live performances of the songs from the movie.
Check out the pumpkin queen! It’s cannon as Disney had her write it, but it gives you an idea what their love is really like
I read some of it. But it was berley the start of Jack and Sally's honeymoon when I had to stop.
Honestly I never realized how amazing Sally was as a character until I watched this video. Now I want to go rewatch the movie. :)
They did get a novel sequel this year. It's called Long Live the Pumpkin Queen.
I loooove Sally. She’s my favorite character in horror type media. I had her song play when someone visited my profile in the friendster days 🤣
I've seen this movie countless times because it was a favorite of both myself and my middle daughter. You know when you like a movie your kid likes, you're going to end up watching it a thousand times. Jack reminds me a great deal of myself, both in his positive and negative traits. His nature is kind and idealistic and he cares very much about the people around him, but he sometimes gets his head stuck his own ass and becomes deaf and blind to things going on outside the noise of his own head.
As for whether Sally deserved better, she certainly deserved to have Jack pay more attention when she spoke to him, but he wasn't ignoring her maliciously. He just had his head up his own ass. I think he genuinely was completely oblivious to what he meant to her and thought she was trying to protect him for his own sake...and like me, he doesn't have a great deal of self-preservation instinct when he's chasing down a dream.
I think if he'd realized that something bad happening to him would hurt *her*, he would have been less dismissive. He probably still would have gone through with his plans, because he's overconfident, but he would have given her more of his attention and taken her concerns more seriously. I don't think it would have changed much about how things played out, but he would have been less rude to her.
I think that now that Jack as realized that Sally hasn't just been doting on the Pumpkin King like everyone else but actually truly cares for Jack as a person, I think he's going to pay much more attention to her, though I suspect his ADHD and ambitious nature will definitely still give Sally frustration from time to time. But let's be real...Sally's attraction to Jack was there before she knew he felt like an outsider too...and I suspect it was there because she was traits in him that she envied...his confidence, his comfort in a crowd, his vigor. Though she is quite courageous when she has a clear goal, she also seems to have a lot of anxiety she wishes she could shed.
So when all is said and done, I think they'll have a beautiful relationship as they learn from each other and lean into each other because Sally wants to be more carefree like Jack, while Jack for the sake of his own safety and that of everyone else around needs to be more cautious like Sally...and I think getting blown the hell up has made him realize that.
I don't like putting things in terms of could you do better or do you deserve better, unless the relationship is objectively detrimental to one or both parties. That kind of thinking is a great way to let perfect become the enemy of good in terms of relationships, which is why some people spend their whole lives constantly trying to trade up in their relationships. I don't think being with Jack is going to be detrimental to Sally at all...I think whatever frustrations might await her, they will be fairly manageable and pale in comparison to the positives that being hitched to a kind and loving monarch whose worst trait is he can be thoughtless when he's in his zone.
FUN FACT ABT SALLY!: so in the book made abt her called the pumkin queen basically u learn she was kidnapped from another realm (like the doors this one was like sandman kinda stuff with dreams and sleeping) and she was a daughter to two ragdoll parents there she used to be stuffed with this fluffy cotten but when the dr kidnapped her he restuffed her to make it seem like he made her. he A wanted a daughter and B wanted people to respect his "inventions"
Huh. Jack's "year-after-year" spiel doesn't work when you realize that the prequel game (yes, prequel game!) called Pumpkin King takes place only ONE YEAR before the film. And that's when he becomes, well, the Pumpkin King.
Oogy’s revenge?
Agree that sometimes simple is best. The movie had such a basic concept and incredible aesetics and that’s what made it fun to watch. Along with an amazing soundtrack. And many great musicals are simple in that there is a grand revelation in the course of one song. So Jack going from ‘she’s a cool friend’ to ´wait, I might have caught deep feels’ in one ballad kind of tracks. 😂
100%!!!
they're my favorite couple
I would’ve liked it if Jack and Sally remained friends instead of getting together
They actually came out with a book that focuses on Sally that takes, like, a year or so after the movie? It's titled "Long Live the Pumpkin Queen" and it's about Sally having to rescue Halloween Town from the Sand Man. I'd be interesting if you took a look at it and made a video about your thoughts, maybe?
My first thought when I saw Jack and Sally getting to together was "Just like that?" I was like 16, too. It felt so sudden.
Well at least Sally was awesome! Took action when shed needed to, was smart and proactive
I can't believe I've been subscribed to your channel for so long and I'm just now seeing this video! The Nightmare Before Christmas is hands down one of my favorite movies of ALL time, there's just something about it. As you said, Jack and Sally are simply PERFECT. They have one of the most innocent, sweet, endearing romances of any fictional couple and that is why they're so timeless. I will literally NEVER stop loving the idea of the two of them. If only that kind of love existed for everyone in real life!
Sally has always and will forever be my favorite
Jack reminds me so much of Stolas and I honestly don't know why
I just realized that the way you present this film and Jack trying to understand the holiday is how I felt when I was living in Korea and how Christmas is celebrated there and in Japan (albeit, Korea is a MUCH more Christian country than Japan and it's an actual holiday in Korea, like bank holiday, but the way the 2 countries celebrate it is similar). For those of us from more "christian" predominant countries that pretty much have always celebrated Christmas, that live/ed in Korea and Japan, experiencing it for the first time is quite bizarre. Much of the way they interpret it is through media (film, tv, music) from the west especially English speaking countries. And when that's all you really have to go off of, you start to think the holiday is a romantic holiday for couples and romance, which is exactly how they celebrate it. I mean the people there do kinda realize now that it's much more of a family holiday similar to chuseok (harvest moon festival) and seollal (lunar new year), but they still celebrate it much more like a couples/romantic holiday, it's so weird, lol. I was trying to get in a cozy fall mood a few evenings ago so I watched The Lake House (I know I know, it's not the best cinematically, but it's comforting, lol), and I decided to watch the original Korean version right after, Il Mare, hahahahhahhahah, of course it mostly takes place during Christmas, hahahahahaha. Strawberry cake is essential for the holiday for them, and I only found out after I got there that strawberry season in Korea and Japan starts around Christmas time and goes to February (pretty much all are grown in a hot house, I think because summers are a bit too humid and summer strawberries would go bad too fast in summer). As for fried chicken being the main meal in Japan on that day, that was all a marketing ploy, nothing else, some Japanese franchise person that went to the States and learned directly under Colonel Sanders the business, then he needed to figure out how to make big sales, and he lied and said that in the US that Christmas was THE holiday for fried chicken, hahahahahahhahaahha, and now it's embedded in the culture, lol, if I was a true blue capitalist I would think this guy was a genius.
But really though, jack knew this was the only girl who was even CLOSE to his hieght
The only weird thing about Sally's premonition (for me) is that it's only shown once and mentioned twice. It's hinted that this isn't the first time, but it's just brushed aside.
Jack doesn't see Sally at first and that's a huge problem. Sally sees Jack as the good hearted but confused slightly jaded guy. She loves him and would do almost anything for him but also will speak up and tell him "You're wrong, and you can't do this"
Even at the very end, Jack forgets about her until he sees Sally's creator with her replacement
In the book / Original story they have kids. So there is more past what the movie shows it does also touch into the relationship between the 2 much better.
I wonder if he will talk about Victor, Victoria and Emily... The whole shipping part of the community is a mess.
It gets kind of funny when you think about the fact that this movie could have been Locked inside of Disney's vaults for nobody to see but thanks to the team they mannish to get this movie out and now it's a coat classic film that anybody can watch during Halloween or Christmas (Like if you're Feeling up for a bit of a spookiness for Christmas sure) but I do kinda wish we could have see more for Sally and Jack's relationship in the movie What happened really nice to see more of that but It did what it needed to to satisfy the watchers and that's all I can ask for.
I feel bad for them because not only were they not given a lot of screentime in the movie, but barely mentioned in the orginal book. Heck, the epilogue in the book only mentions Jack having a few skeleton children and that's it.
You should ABSOLUTELY do a video on Morticia and Gomez, I'd love to see your take on them
The Nightmare Before Christmas aka Tortured Artist turns into a Christmas Weaboo (ChristmeabooTM) and makes everyone play along.
I think the problem is the fact that in the film Jack and Sally don’t really interact that much. Though at least Jack isn’t really negative to Sally, when Sally gives Jack something for his experiments Sally leaves before Jack has the chance to thank him and when he assigns her to make his costume he does encourage her when he thinks she’s referring to making his costume.
"Someone else is miserable and he's already my type"
Shit had me rollin
Is he the reason why Christmas decor is going in stores during October?
Yes
Am I the only one pining for a sequel about their daughter Jackoline who loves Valentine’s Day?
I would be all for that if any other company than disney made it
I had read a manga version and as I was reading it I realized that when it comes to Jack and Sally, their relationship really is one sided. I think it would be cool if Disney had released shorts based on their romantic relationship and we can see how Jack truly loves Sally.
There's a new book out from Sally's perspective about her being the pumpkin queen
Read the book and it’s actually good. Also I’ve been surprised 10 times and the only book to make me cry. Ever.
I truly feel bad for all of the 12 peeps who have not seen this movie they must had a sad childhood.
the fact that this movie came out more then 22 yrs ago
If you like the book sequel with Sally as the main character, you'll be happy to know the official manga is actually a shojo and she is the main character as well~!
I do recommend the book it's good! It wasn't a long read, I am psyched when you make Morticia and Gomez