THE ROYAL BABY RACE | the birth of Queen Victoria | how Victoria became Queen |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- How did the DEATH OF PRINCESS CHARLOTTE lead to the BIRTH of Princess Victoria? This is the story of the royal baby race, instigated in 1817 after the tragic death in childbirth of Princess Charlotte, heir to the throne, along with her baby son. With Charlotte and her child gone, there were no legitimate grandchildren of George III left and the succession to the throne of the United Kingdom looked to be in peril. If no legitimate children were born to any of the King’s offspring, the crown would have to pass from one elderly sovereign to the next, possibly for decades; hardly a recipe for a popular monarchy. In response to this crisis, George’s unmarried sons (a series of generally unpopular bachelor Princes) began to seek emergency marriages in an effort to become the father of the future King or Queen. His third son, Prince Edward, Duke of Clarence, dumped his long-term mistress and married Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld, a sister-in-law of the deceased Princess Charlotte through Charlotte’s husband, Prince Leopold. Nine months later, Princess Victoria was born. Her route to the throne was not cleared yet though. It was only thanks to the death of her father before he and her mother could produce a brother to displace the little Princess and the failure of Edward’s older brothers to produce any surviving, legitimate offspring that Victoria finally rose to the top of the pile as the first in line to the throne. Disaster was averted as the crown went from tragedy to triumph.
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SOME SOURCES:
Stewart Richards, Curtain Down at Her Majesty's: The Death of Queen Victoria in the Words of Those Who Were There (2018).
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Tony Rennell, The Last Days of Glory: The Death of Queen Victoria (2001).
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Michaela Reid, Ask Sir James: Sir James Reid, personal physician to Queen Victoria and physician-in-ordinary to three monarchs (1987)
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Christopher Hibbert, Queen Victoria: A Personal History (2001).
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If you were in the position of the royal bachelors, would you have bothered entering the baby race? Let me know below and remember you can also find me at:
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Nope
If it wasn't for all the actual tragedy involved, this would be hilarious.
If someone tried to write it as a screen-play, it would never sell.
Truthfully I probably would have entered the baby race. It would be security and a good position of influence on a potential monarch.
If I had an amazing wife & one son & my nephew already had my last name all taken care of for the future with his son (my last name), I'll be content as a person in a comfy big bubbly bath. :) No reason to play "pardon me ma'am, could you spare me another?"
One note that I think you could have emphasized is that George III and Queen Charlotte didn't allow their daughters to get married if at all until very late. Had they allowed them to get married it's almost certain one of them would have had a child. Not allowing them to get married is in large part what caused the succession crisis.
Yes, I agree that the parents acted very irresponsibly (and cruelly towards their daughters) and that issue was discussed in more detail in my video on Queen Charlotte. In this case though I wanted to keep the focus on the events of 1817 onwards and not get pulled back too much into much earlier events. I just felt that the reasons why the Princesses had no offspring didn't really matter for the purposes of this discussion. The Princes mattered though because they were still able to produce offspring.
totally.
@HistoryCalling Yes. Isn't it ironic that women have a limited time in creating life, but men don't? Charlie Chaplin fathered a child in his 90s!
All those illegitimate children! I wonder what became of them?
Even if the daughters did have children, the throne would still need to pass through literally every living son of George III before it even gets to the eldest daughter Charlotte, as per the succession rules of the time
@@MSjackiesaunders Most of William IV's children married, and married well, leaving lots of descendants including Prime Minister Cameron.. William's oldest son died at age 16, drowned. Augustus's son died of multiple sclerosis, unmarried and without issue, and his daughter married a baron, but also died without children. George IV was rumored to have had several illegitimate children, but that is now thought doubtful; he did say at one time that he had a son in the navy.
Princess Charlotte’s story is really sad :/ but you’re right, the subsequent race to the heir was almost comical lmao, and led that nice little quip “Hot and hard each royal pair, are at it hunting for the heir”.
It baffles me how much of a failure George III and Charlotte (as well as his sons, bc the fact the daughters had no legitimate offspring was on their parents’ shoulders) were at continuing the bloodline😭
Yes, GIII and Charlotte have a lot to answer for, particularly in relation to how they treated their daughters. They had 13 surviving children after all. It's wild that by 1818 they had no legitimate grandchildren.
@@lfgifu296 friend ! You gotta watch this gentleman Jim Corbett documentary. The narrator is Leon Neeson.
@@DarthDread-oh2ne Hi! Thanks for the recommendation, what is it about?
@@lfgifu296 It's about the boxer who defeated the great John I Sullivan.
I have always felt so bad for Queen Adelaide, she had to be aware of the purpose assigned to her, and the pain that comes with loosing children must have been horrible for her. She seemed to stay a kind and dignified woman throughout it all.
Great video per the usual! ❤
Yes, she's a very sad figure in many ways. I think Victoria was fond of her though and kind to her.
@@HistoryCalling Yes, according to Victoria's many biographies, Adelaide became rather like a mother figure to her. Being estranged from her own mother, I believe Victoria turned to her often for advice.
Another brilliant one about a era that isnt well known, atleast for me that is.
Thank you very much! Your narration and your voice is captivating!
I think that if you decide to read the phonebook, i also become a member of your channel!
I could fall in love with your voice and your dialect!!😊😊❤
When (3:30) History Calling "starts to lose the will to carry on", you KNOW it's going to be a confounding recounting of cousins clawing to claim the Crown. Well done again by a consummate historian and fantastic story teller!
Yup. It's not quite as bad as the Wars of the Roses, but it's up there :-)
It honestly makes you realise how much of history could be changed if even one of the 'what ifs' had happened
Absolutely. If we'd had Queen Charlotte we'd never have known anything about Queen Victoria and none of the current royals would exist.
And maybe WWI and the Bolshevik Revolution would not have happened?
Imagine all that would have happened if Charlotte had lived. What would have happened to Victoria's existence
There would have been no Victoria, but we would have had Queen Charlotte and presumably her son after her.
@@HistoryCalling
I disagree on a certain level that Victoria wouldn't have existed if Charlotte had lived 😅
There might have still been a push for a spare. Even if Charlotte lived, her son could have still died on his own. Charlotte might not have been able to have another child as well. In that case, Edward of Kent might have still been pressured to have a legitimate child, thus providing for Victoria's existence. But she might have come to the throne later than she actually did, if Charlotte had lived longer 😅
It's theoretically possible, but what are the chances that it all would have happened quickly enough for Prince Edward to marry Victoria's mother in time to conceive that exact child? I tend to still think that Victoria wouldn't have existed.
I didn’t know most of this and I’m not sure I’m clear on it now. Not due to your explanations. Yours was as clear as you could make it with their convoluted family tree. I’m sure you had a migraine after that study! Once again, though, you plodded through it and delivered to us an interesting and informative lesson on the trials and tribulations of the royals (tongue in cheek!). It is absolutely fascinating and I’m always “hooked” when I see your Monday posts. Please keep up the excellent work. I, like so many others, look forward to hearing from you. Have a great week! 😊
Thanks Amy and I know what you mean. It's not quite as bad as the Wars of the Roses' family trees I have to do sometimes, but it's a lot to process.
@@HistoryCalling I have a book that created the Hanoverian English dynasty on charts. They are triple-fold-out pages. They don't even include all the illegitimate children. But the one of those whose linage traces back to Victoria is pretty detailed, as well. With nine children, it is no wonder that historians call her the "grandmother of Europe." That might be a good follow up to this video!
It amazes me that with 15 children there was still so few legitimate grandchildren till the panic of the baby race
I know. Such poor planning on the part of that whole family. This is why you need an heir and a spare.
well done sorting out that what if scenario - never seen that broken down so thoroughly before HC
Thank you. Yes, there was quite a lot to pick through :-)
@@HistoryCalling - Victorian Royal family tree might be peak intricacy keeping track of who is the actual heir - brava HC
It really is, especially as the heir was sometimes someone who we've now totally forgotten about. I mean who's ever heard of poor little Princess Elizabeth for instance?
@@HistoryCalling - it makes the line between Stuart and Hanover look straight forward - you are good at what you do HC - 🛸✨
Sorrows, sorrows. Prayers. Sorrows.
Indeed, esp. for Adelaide.
@@HistoryCalling I feel for poor Adelaide.
Although queen Victoria 's father didn't got the crown but he won the baby race and his blood got the crown.
When Victoria was born her maternal grandmother was disappointed because she was a girl . But her father told that his daughter would be queen of England one day .
Although Victoria never met her father , but she paid all of his debts after ascending to the throne .
😊❤❤
Yes, he did indeed win. I have to pity his mistress a little bit though. He well and truly dumped her.
@@HistoryCalling William iv and Edward duke of Kent both dumped their mistresses.
Yup, they weren't very nice guys really. It was all 'I love you, I love you' until they thought they had a chance at the throne and then those women were out on their ears.
@@HistoryCalling I think only George iv loved his mistress , (who was older to him ) truly .
Even after being married to ill fated Caroline of Brunswick .
Yes, he did seem pretty dedicated to Maria Fitzherbert. It's a shame she was deemed so unsuitable to be Queen.
This is a well executed explanation of the state of British royal family in the early 1800's. Makes it abundantly clear about the need for a line of succession, well planned and established. I have no idea why George and Charlotte did not require their sons to marry respectable wives, or for their daughters to be married off. Really shortsightedness. Thanks HC. 😁
Yes, they were shockingly bad at arranging marriages for their children. It's wild that they had 13 surviving kids and yet no legitimate grandchildren by the end of 1817.
As with most of the Hanoverian monarchs, the father-son relationships between George III and his sons, as adults, was tense. They resented his strictures on their lives, and, I think largely out of rebelliousness, formed relations with women who were not going to be accepted as brides by their parents. George and Charlotte could not force them to marry, but in the end they got the future George IV to marry by having Parliament pay off his enormous debts. The thought of being providing an heir to the throne convinced the rest to marry.
George and Charlotte didn't want to part with their daughters. Apparently George, in addition to having them about, was very anxious about their fates if they married abroad. His sister Caroline Matilda had married the King of Denmark and Norway, who was seriously unbalanced, and had conducted an affair which ended disastrously when she was divorced and locked up in Celle (where her ancestress George I's wife had also been imprisoned). George did not want to see that happen to his girls, and very selfishly, did not find husbands for them. Only after their brother became Regent did three of them marry, but too late for children.
I truly believe that George's mental illness played a significant part in the lack of planning from the family. Normally, that would have been the role of the King and he was just not in a good place to make those sorts of deals and treaties. I wonder, if the daughters had been married, could it have changed the politics of Europe? Who would have been the suitable prospects and would countries have merged when heirs were needed for England.
@@TeacherofNumbers His older daughters were already in their twenties when their father became ill, and traditionally he would have been looking for husbands for them well before that time.
I JUST finished Bridgerton’s Queen Charlotte mini series that highlights this race.
Yes, someone else mentioned that too here in the comments. They really mangled the history of it though. Other than the fact that there was a race, none of it was true to life. It's a shame. I think the real story is interesting enough to merit telling.
Queen Charlotte certainly did her duty of producing children admirably. One might argue that she was less successful in raising them. They seem to have be an absolute shambles.
Yes, the way she denied so many of them happiness is really awful. A lot of the daughters were miserable with her and prepared to marry just about anyone to get away.
amazing even for royalty how dangerous child birth was 200 years ago
Oh absolutely. It remained dangerous (by our standards anyway) until about the 1930s.
Especially if you have Porphyria and a doctor who does all the wrong things.
@HistoryCalling Depending on where you live, it still is! I'm embarrassed to live in a country with some of the most advanced technology and one of the most antiquated health care systems. I have a hard time grasping how the US has the highest maternal mortality rate of any "first world" country. I would think by now that we would have a national health care system.
That's purely due to differences in the reporting system.
Many countries get around the embarrassment of their real infant mortality rates by not counting the babies who die soon after birth.
@mbvoelker8448 I don't believe I mentioned infant mortality. I said maternal mortality. It is a part of our skewed system that women of color (black, Hispanic, or "other") die at four times the rate as white women. Mainly, that is because of lack of insurance, lack of facilities, and lack of codified laws about health care. I look at Britain national healthcare, which, although far from perfect, is a safety net for all.
This video puts the convoluted and truly arcane gymnastics of royal succession into a clarity that only emphasizes the absurdity of its existence.
Haha, for true gymnastics, watch one of my videos on the Plantagenet succession that led to the Wars of the Roses. It makes this look straight forward.
Another fascinating video. Thanks for posting. Regards, John.
Thanks John. Yes, it's one of those stories that isn't terribly well known about, but I find it really interesting.
I had no idea. What a wonderful video - thank you! And I just love your dry sense of humor.
Thanks Ben :-)
This whole fiasco was the making of George III and his Queen by not marrying off their daughters and keeping them at home in their weird dysfunctional little arrangement. It's pretty apparent the Georges were terrible parents, generation after generation. 🤣
Absolutely. They didn't even put the fun in dysfunctional. Most of them were just miserable.
I enjoyed how they used this as the subplot for Queen Charlotte
Yes, but they totally mangled it. You would have thought from that show that the daughters were young enough to reproduce and that it wasn't Charlotte and their father who'd stopped them getting married all those years and refused to recognise some of the boys' marriages. Honestly, I thought that show would have been better off just being about a fictional King and Queen of a fictional country, rather than pretending it was at all connected to history (it's still a guilty pleasure to watch though).
@@HistoryCalling of course it being tv it was going to be way off. It definitely got me more interested in the period and researching how things really went down. Prior I was mostly interested in medieval/renaissance royal history.
I think it did a decent job of getting the main point across, Charlotte and her son died and left the monarchy in crisis. The previously womanizing princes had to race to make respectable marriages and a baby.
Wonderful video. Loved it. 😊😊🇨🇦
Thanks Marion and greetings from across the pond :-)
It’s really interesting to think of the change in international relations that led to so many unmarried princes and princesses. 100 years earlier it seems likely that all would have been married off to cement alliances or spread influence, but that paradigm seems to have completely broken down
Yes, it was an incredibly stupid move on the part of George III and Queen Charlotte, not to mention cruel as their daughters were desperate to get away from them and several of the sons wanted to marry the women they were in love with but weren't allowed.
Henry VIII for one would have given his eye teeth for a couple of those sons!
It's not that they weren't sought after, or that the system broke down so much as their parents wouldn't part with them.
It hadn't broken down - after all Victoria's own children would marry widely throughout European royalty. And other royalty at the time were all marrying each other regularly. It was just that George III and Charlotte didn't do so, for some reason.
@@thomasrinschler6783 The practice of princes marrying princesses hadn't broken down, certainly. But the practice or arranging these marriages as a regular part of international relations seems to have become much less prominent. For Queen Victoria's children, it was no longer a matter of "We need peace with Spain, so Bertie shall marry a Spanish infanta." Instead it became "Oh, cousin Christian has a nice daughter of appropriate background who's available, and Bertie needs a wife." So when George III and Charlotte didn't want to (for whatever various reasons) marry off their children, it was a privilege they could afford to indulge in, instead of squandering valuable diplomatic assets like that same course of action would have been in previous centuries.
Brilliant video. Loved your personal comments regarding the family tree.
Thank you. They're just murder to put together sometimes - soooo complicated!
Thank you for a detailed explanation of Victoria’s succession. Destiny has well meaning for her. Geez, I wouldn’t enter into the baby race. However, I wouldn’t have a choice in that era. Thank you for the history lesson. Have a great week.
You're welcome. Yes, it's certainly an interesting reason to be born. Most people don't make it into the world simply because their much older cousin died and their Dad wants to get his kid on the throne!
Thanks for the Queen Victoria succession video.
Thank you very much for the donation Jeanne-Marie. Glad you enjoyed hearing about how we ended up with Victoria :-)
This is a great documentary. Love the style. Thanks!
❤ your voice, also your content is 💯
Thank you very much :-)
You miss a point. The House of Hanover was only coincidentally English, and Charlotte's husband Leopold was a very credible successor, having served with distinction on Wellington's staff. The question therefore turned to bloodline, and Salic inheritance could have resolved the question, as well. As it turned out, Leopold preferred a bird in the hand to one in the bush, accepting Frederic de Meeus' offer of a new Belgian monarchy, leaving the UK fighting it out internally as to who would be the Victoria's Regent (memories of the Stuart troubles in the 15th and 16th century were still raw).
I'm not sure how Charlotte's husband would have been considered a successor? Could you explain?
@@edithengel2284 Look at the options - none. What would have happened if William IV had died suddenly? That's why the succession was an issue, and those of the blood were encouraged to marry and have children. But that's 22 years from start to being legally of age, and child mortality was also a concern. Until such time as an heir was born and raised, what then? Victoria was 11 when Leopold accepted the Belgian throne, and even then, she was the only suitable progeny. She was 18 when William actually died, and the questions of Regency I raised became a serious issue, with her mother, and various other senior courtiers.
@@JelMain Thanks for responding, but I still don't understand why Leopold would be considered as a successor, unless I am misunderstanding your first comment.
@@edithengel2284 Simple sauve qui peut, the very reason they started breeding a new Queen, much like a bee colony: looking ahead. If you look back at the history of the monarchy, the Witan influence continues, in Edward VIII, for example. We choose our monarchs for ability: thankfully William met the toughest proof when very young indeed. The reality of the wake-up call to George III's family, in terms of rug-rats, proves the gravity of the situation, two other dynasties benefitted, Victoria was alone here. Fortunately she was of the Bridgerton generation, a lusty lass whose descendants verged on the kinky, but even then, recent generations have not overpopulated the realm with royals.
I'm afraid I'm with Edith here. There's no way Leopold would ever have been considered a successor just because he was married to Charlotte. It's not like William III (married to Mary II) who had a claim both by virtue of conquest and because he was a nephew of James II. As I explained in the video, there was a line of succession. It wasn't full of very appealing candidates, but it existed.
Thank you so much for this viseo. I would like to add to one of the commenters here, that I feel sad for Queen Adelaide. I don't remember the source, but I have read that after loosing all her children she was willing to dote on Victoria, but because of the Kensington system they rarely met and that Adelaide was very sad about it.
Same here. What happened to her children was a tragedy. I think Victoria was kind to her in later life though, once she was the Queen dowager.
"Wacky Victorian family" Love it!
They really were. Imagine growing up with that lot!
@@HistoryCalling I feel sorriest for GIII daughters.
Have you come across any consideration of legitimising the marriage and children of Prince Augustus and his wife? It seems like that would have been much more straight forward. Were there other objections to the marriage or was it only that they hadn’t been given permission?
Thanks again for another great video.
No, I don't think that was ever on the cards. I can't think of any other objections off the top of my head, but I have to be honest and say that I haven't looked at their case in great detail and I also put together this video about 3 months ago, so it's not very fresh for me (apart from the two sentences mentioned TH-cam memberships which I slotted in this afternoon!!) :-)
The duke's first wife, Lady Augusta Murray, was an earl's daughter, but probably not considered of high enough rank to be suitable even for a prince rather far down the line of succession. Because she was a perfectly respectable earl's daughter she was treated fairly well after she and the duke finally separated; she was given a large annual stipend by Parliament. Nothing perturbed by the results of this marriage, Prince Augustus went and did it again, marrying another earl's daughter, Lady Cecilia Underwood, without getting permission, from William IV, in this case. Queen Victoria took pity on Lady Cecilia, and made her the Duchess of Inverness in her own right so she could sit with Augustus at royal functions.
The duke's son by his first wife very sadly was the first person for whom a definite diagnosis of multiple sclerosis was made. He kept a diary which described his life with the symptoms of the disease. He died ten years after Victoria came to the throne, without issue, so it's possibly as well he didn't become king. (If you look up his portrait, he looks a good deal like Victoria.)
I don't imagine that I'd want to jump into a marriage to produce a new legal heir, unless there was some compelling reason. I can imagine a good play by someone like Oscar Wilde around the importance of producing an heir. This is a really good background as to how Queen Victoria came into the scene. Many thanks.
I suppose if you were first in line though, you might take a stab at it. It certainly seems like the lure of a throne is pretty strong if this lot are anything to go by.
@@HistoryCalling Sure, I might find as first in line that in itself was my compelling reason but I think, on balance, I would rather my next brother younger do it, thus meaning I wouldn't t have to find a wife. Most of those court or aristocratic ladies around the time of George IV and William IV are not really ones I would like to have had to endure a marriage with. Thanks for the reply.
I love this. Thank you!
Glad you like it! :-)
It is odd that in a pack of 15 kids about 13 living into adulthood. Not 1 of the women had an heir and only 1 legitimate 1? Out of Alllllll the male?
I know. It's insane. Once princess did have a stillbirth and one had an illegitimate child, but those plus Princess Charlotte is still a terrible tally out of 13.
@HistoryCalling My dad was the 11th child of a farmer and had two younger siblings. All but two of the thirteen had children. I am not even sure how many first cousins I have on my dad's side, but it's around 30.
There are SO many examples throughout history of how the quest for a legitimate male heir and successor has dramatically impacted events and the course of history- from Henry VIII, to this story, even to King Charles III. Also for the last Shah of Iran (I just watched the video a couple of days ago), who divorced his second wife Soreya when doctors determined she was infertile. In his case, the collapse of the Iranian monarchy meant there was no kingdom for his sons with third wife Farah Dibah to inherit!
Yes, it's definitely one of the determining factors in a lot of historical events, as you say and yet ironically, sometimes the best monarchs are the women!
Have you made a video about George III? I loved this one!
Nothing dedicated to him yet, no, though the one on his wife, Queen Charlotte does by necessity include a fair bit of info. on him too.
Your so good! And funny! Losing the will to carry on 😂😂😂😂😂. Another amazing video!!!❤❤❤
Thank you. You really do lose it though with these family trees sometimes :-)
@@HistoryCalling oh I m sure you do! Your delivery is just so funny 🤣🩷😂
i did not know most of that, awesome! Thank you!
You're welcome. I was a little fuzzy on a lot of the details too initially, but that made it interesting to research.
Well HC you tip toad your way through that family tree with ease, I found it Complicated, congratulations to Victoria on winning that race, thank you yet again HC as always, I wouldn't of entered that race. ☺️👍
Oh those trees are awful to put together sometimes. At least it wasn't as bad as the Plantagenet ones I have to do for anything Wars of the Roses related though. Glad you enjoyed it :-)
@@HistoryCalling indeed HC.
Love your narrative ♥️
Thanks Yvonne :-)
The English Monarchy is so unbelievably convoluted! You explain it very well but Holy cow!
Quite an interesting race. Thanks for explaining it all so well.
You're welcome :-) Thanks for watching and commenting.
The only heir to the throne is dead!
🤧
*Sorrows. Sorrows. Prayers.*
Happy Monday HC 😊 have you ever watched The Young Victoria?
Happy Monday to you too. You mean the Emily Blunt movie? I have indeed. It was a long time ago mind you, but I seem to remember enjoying it.
@@HistoryCalling yes, that one. I liked it too
@HistoryCalling And it was reasonably accurate. Sure, they did some telescoping of events, but having read some of her journals, it was still a pretty accurate telling of her adolescence.
I’ve always loved the story that William hated Victoria’s mother so much he told Victoria he’d live till she was 18 and could rule by herself. True or not, it’s a wonderful story 🙏🙏🙏👵🇦🇺
Yes, I think he was indeed determined to make sure the Duchess of Kent couldn't be Regent. It's certainly interesting that he just about made it to Victoria's 18th birthday, then died a few weeks later.
I wonder what Edward finally told his mistress - "Love ya, babe, but gotta go make a royal baby"? "No ambition", yeah, right. Lena and I enjoyed this video together; she had a few pointed comments of her own on these royal antics (her Russian heritage left her with a less-than-favorable view of royalty although she has sympathy for Czar Nicholas' family). Well done, HC! Even better on second viewing.🙏🏼
Thanks Stephen. Yes, I think he did end up having to say pretty much just that to her. Shows how deep his so-called love actually was. The Russian royals were terrifying. They make the Tudors look like wimps.
@@HistoryCalling 🤣No kidding. Ivan was a real peach, wasn't he? In more recent history, I once heard that the Russian mafia considered the Sicilians a "bunch of boy scouts". Yikes.
Fascinating! I read a biography called "Becoming Queen Victoria" that started out with the story of Princess Charlotte. I recommend it. 🙂
Thanks for the tip :-)
I don't know if you would consider it a compliment or not, but I like the fact that I can almost always listen to your work without having to look at the visuals. I like to have something on when I'm working on projects and your excellent storytelling is as good as an audiobook when my hands and eyes are busy.
Interesting topic
“I was starting to lose the will to carry on” … I felt that lololol 😂 It really is unbelievable, with all those offspring, that there was such a struggle 🤷🏻♀️ Thanks for another great vid! ♥️♥️♥️
Haha, yes it's true. Those family trees can be a real nightmare to work out. 😂
Well! I consider myself well-informed about royal history (for a Yank!) but I was under the impression that Victoria was absolutely the only direct heir. I knew there was a "baby race" but didn't realize it was so successful. Thank you for all this new information. I find myself wondering what relationships Victoria had with her cousins in adulthood. Is there much information on that?
I wonder if she had much to do with them, as her mother was so bent on keeping her isolated.
Poor Adelaide 😢
Oh what a circus! Heaven only knows what she was thinking ( Victoria) about all of this madness. Thanks for the video.
Well, she was pretty young when all of this "race" happened. According to many of her biographers, she didn't know much about her position until she was around 10 or 11. Her mother, heavily influenced by John Conroy, were trying to keep her dependent on them. Instead, it drove her away. They tried to force her into signing a method for them to essentially rule until she was 21, and they did it when she was sick. She refused. Seemingly, she inherited her father's stubborness but not his cruelty.
@@MSjackiesaunders I meant when she did find out
Thank you so much for the donation Gill. Hmm, I dunno. Maybe she thought it was all God's plan for her to be on the throne?
@@HistoryCalling Possible. Who knows.
@gillsinclair6927 Victoria's early journals were mostly destroyed, so we can only guess at what she thought. By the time she was a teenager, most of the "race" was over. William IV really supported her after Adelaide's third or fourth failed pregnancy. He managed to hold on until Victoria was 18, so his successor wouldn't be crippled by being forced to let others make decisions for her.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for the donation Deirdre. Glad you enjoyed hearing about the Hanoverian circus that was the baby race :-)
I have found this succession/ascension quite confusing in the past but your explanation and visual aids made it much more clear to me!
Thank you. That's what like to hear, especially as those family trees can be quite tricky to put together. :-)
Boy, were they busy, all those names are making my head spin too. :D I feel sorry for poor Queen Adelaide, losing all those children! She was like Queen Anne or Catherine of Aragon in that regard.
Yes, it was tragic, though fortunately she didn't lose as many as either Catherine or Anne. Really it's a miracle none of Anne's 17 pregnancies killed her. It's an insane number to have.
Im unsure if you already made a video on this but if not could you make one on what would happen if something were to happen to the current royal family and its closest 10 heirs?
I haven't done a video on it, but the crown would just descend to number 11. At the current time that's Princess Eugenie, then it would go on to her children. Nothing like that would ever happen though, particularly as Harry and his children are rarely even on the same continent as the others. There's no event that could harm them all at once. They don't even get together for Christmas any more, but of course the saga behind that is another story :-)
@@HistoryCalling
Harry and his children? How amusing!..........
Oh, were you being serious?
Good evening to history calling from Bea 🇬🇧
I love this episode. In fact I love them all. As a Jamaican I always have a love for Caribbean history and now that I’m living in the USA I fell in love with would history. So I was wondering if you could do an episode on Annie Palmer. The White witch of Rose Hell great house in Montego Bay Jamaica.
Thank you so much. I would love to look at history from the rest of the world, but sadly when I try to get people interested in something that didn't happen in England it's a real uphill battle to get them to watch in sufficient numbers. I really struggle to even get good viewer numbers on my American history videos, which is bizarre to me as about half my audience are based in the US.
Commenting for the engagement algorithm. ❤
Thank you :-)
Almost as complex as the wars of the roses family trees!
My thoughts exactly!
The funny thing about having Victoria be the one to take the thrown is that through her marriage to Prince Albert, the awareness of hygiene that Albert was well known for made it possible that everyone in society, including the royal family, could have a better chance of surviving infancy and make it to adulthood healthy enough to create larger families. On top of that, Victoria’s and Albert’s love story was a nice break from the family dysfunction the Hanovers mostly provided with very few exceptions. Victoria and Albert’s relationship by no means was perfect, doesn’t help they were cousins, but the British society needed a royal family that everyone can look to for some inspiration. On top of that, both of them have largely contributed to the needed improvements the British needed, like being more interested in Scottish culture, rebuilding the slums to quaint and livable households, plumbing, science, fighting against racism (us Americans who know history should be grateful for Albert’s last deed to vocally support the Union in our Civil War that greatly impacted the war to finally give the Union the support they needed), etc.
I doubt we would be in this world that has seen so much advancement since 1837 if it wasn’t for Victoria.
I'm only up to 7:05, but looking at that sorry line-up of bachelor princes, the clear losers of this baby race are going to be four bachelorettes. No one wants to binge that series. Poor ladies...sometimes there's just not enough booze in the world.
Haha, well look at it this way. Victoria's mother at least didn't have to live with the Duke of Kent very long. He conveniently died quite quickly :-)
@@HistoryCalling Her service to country was quickly rewarded. They should all have gotten the Victoria Cross.
Not happening with any of them....
I could close my 👀
&
Hold my breath .
No, still not happening. Time to reconsider a New Republic.
Uhhhhh n ickkk 😵💫
Victoria sure had to grow up around & walk past a long row of coffins to claim her throne 👑
@@oonaghmarguerite6752 Patriotism only goes so far!
Lol. Your comment about losing the will to live goi g more in depth over the family tree had me cracking up! 😂
It's so true though. Those trees get sooo complicated! 😂
Thank you.
You're welcome and thank you for watching and commenting :-)
Just imagine those four owls coming at you with a rose. I'm glad they never did away with the monarchy, but if they were ever going to, that might have been the moment. There's a really funny movie in this story if anyone ever realizes it. (How did Victoria turn out so well? She's one of my favorites!)
Yes, there does seem to be a film in there somewhere, doesn't there? Something quite light-hearted and maybe not too historically accurate (so that we don't see Adelaide's grief). Maybe in the vein of 'The Great'.
Fun fact: Did you know Gentleman Jim Corbett(Boxer) father took A gun and pointed it at his wife, and well, I don’t need to tell you what happened next.
I didn't, but I pity the wife. :-(
Ya, that is what my grandfather did to my grandmother, only he killed himself
Oh dear. That's awful. I'm so sorry :-(
Interestingly I was looking at the Wikipedia page for Ernest Augustus wife and it says she had 2 daughters that died young from him, the first one was born before Charlotte died in the same year she died actually in 1817.
No surviving children at the time the baby race started though. (I only see one daughter mentioned on Wikipedia, but I only had a quick glance so perhaps I missed something).
It's interesting that Prince Augustus became Monarch of Hanover, despite marrying the woman of his choice, while Victoria became Queen of the British throne.
That was quite interesting, the things people will do. No I wouldn't even of doing something like that I would let my brothers deal with it. Looking forward to next week.
Haha, well you might change your mind if you were the oldest brother though, with what would appear to be the best chance of winning.
Hi, awesome live history video I enjoyed it. How are you doing? I'm doing well and so is my cat. We finally have autumn 🍂 weather in Ontario Canada. What's the weather like where you are? All your history videos are always enjoyable. Have a great day see you next video 😊
Thanks Michelle. All good here thanks, though I see there are floods elsewhere in the UK, but thankfully not here. See you next time :-)
There was a rather rude ditty said at the time about the royal baby race -
"Hot and hard the royal pair,
Are at it hunting for the heir."
Ah yes, someone else just told me that too. I don't think I could have included that in the video.
@@HistoryCalling Knowing how sensitive TH-cam can be, I don't blame you :)
It really is completely crazy looking at the lack of legitimate heirs there were down so many lines at this time. Including when there were many children. There's been a saying that the crown makes it way somehow to who is supposed to have it. It's as if a force was making absolutely sure it was going to Victoria. Especially given all of her children survived to adulthood and many of them had surviving children which was quite remarkable for a time when women could expect to lose at least one child. And cousins farther down the lines from her also survived and had children. Anyone superstitious might say the crown really wanted a Victorian line!
I can’t imagine myself as a roysl bachelor! What I can say, though, is that even if I were queen I would not pressure my children or grandchildren ( all adults) to enter into marriages or childbearing for which they have no desire. I love them as they are and want them all to be happy.
You see, you're just too good of a mum and a grandmother to be a Hanoverian. :-)
Perhaps you could do a video on the royal marriages act and why it existed? Because a family that couldn't afford to be choosy about heirs really just sidelined two possibilities because their dad didn't get permission? (The Duke of Sussex's kids, George IV's illegitimate kids had the additonal issue of their mother being Catholic). Knowing the basics, I can get the rationale that they were operating under at the time, but it still seems short-sighted. Even moreso when considering that George III's illness would get really bad shortly after.
Then again, so goes history. How often does a bad idea really show bad it was only in hindsight?
Overall, an excellent addition to your top-notch work.
Thank you. Yes, maybe I'll look at that in the future. I totally agree that sidelining royals can have bad long-term consequences. Just look at the current slimed down monarchy. That seemed like a good, cost-cutting idea 15 years ago, but now they're running very low on senior working royals with only 3 children coming up the ranks to take on duties (and the oldest of them is still about 10 years away from being able to really work as a royal). When both the King and Princess of Wales were out of action at the same time, the royal family started to look very flimsy indeed.
It wasn't only because he lacked permission. It was also because the lady was "only" an earl's daughter. (Earl's daughters fared far better in the 20th century in the persons of the Queen Mother and Diana, Princess of Wales.)
Although it was totally unrealistic, I did enjoy the way this whole situation was depicted in Queen Charlotte. But, it is fascinating to think about what could have been, had Charlotte or her baby boy had lived.
Yes, there would have been no Queen Victoria and none of the current royals would exist. I feel like there's an alternate timeline style novel in there somewhere.
You cant throw these possibilities at the family trees of British or probably ANY Royals.
Such a mess.
Or throwing DNA tests at them now 😮
Okay, my heritage journey is starting to get weird. I'm watching a video about Queen Victoria, recognizing surnames and thinking "Am I related to that person" and finding out that the answer is YES.
Now why does that never happen to me when I do my family tree! None of my lot were famous.
What would I have done in that position? I'm not sure I personally would have attempted to produce an heir, taking into account the fact I would have been quite old (I'm already in my perimenopausal years now) even if I had had any eggs left, getting pregnant that late in life is generally inadvisable. So I think I'd have been more likely to concentrate my efforts on looking for possible wives for my brothers.
There's a lot of what-ifs regarding this whole situation (the biggest being what if Charlotte hadn't died in the first place) that are fun and interesting to think about. But the one that shocked me the most was when you pointed out that a completely different woman could have held the name of Elizabeth II.
I dunno if I would entered the race for anything less than a second brother. The other ones further down the line just had so little chance of winning. Yes, that poor little baby that the world has forgotten about should have been E2 indeed. I have a video on her over on Patreon this week in fact.
Don´t worry about your German pronounciaton, it´s quite good :-) I never quite managed to get the hang of this part of English history, so the video is much appreciated!
Ah, thank you. :-) That's always nice to hear as I struggle with words which are foreign to me and always seem to find pronunciation guides online that give different pronunciations.
Ernest, Duke of Cumberland was the great-grandfather of Queen Frederica of Greece and the great-great grandfather of her daughter Queen Sofia of Spain.
Yup, those Hanoverians get everywhere :-)
Its sad Victoria never knew her father. He may have protected her from her overcontrolling mother
Yes, it's a pity she lost him so young. Still, had he lived her parents might have had a boy and then she'd never have been Queen.
Have you made a video detailing why the Hanoverian Kings were so unpopular? If not maybe that would make a good story.
It's interesting but probably too big of a topic to cover in a single video unfortunately, as they were unpopular at different times for different reasons. I do have a video on George I's very messy love life though which you might like.
The power of the press, something’s never change.
In 1819 it would have been worth putting a fiver on Victoria becoming Queen - would have got some great odds 🙂.
WoW😮
Yep. It was quite a time to be a royal follower, that's for sure.
I feel sorry for these poor girls who have these creepy old men continuously jump on them only to lose their baby for a status. 🤢
Three Queens that were not meant to be Queen will always be remembered Lizzie 1, 2 and good ole Vicky (she has 2 states named after her in Australia Victoria and Queensland).
Yes, it's interesting that sometimes the monarch who wasn't meant to get the throne ends up being the best suited for it. I'd put George VI in that category too.
It was the Duke of Cumberland not Sussex who was was in the race.
Hi History Calling- yes, I would. Regards, Andy
Thank you. That's the spirit! :-)
So much family dysfunction. I know the joke is the Hanover family legacy and the sons' hatred of the father. Victoria even extended that with her treatment of the Prince of Wales. GIII and Charlotte were so intent on controlling everything their children couldn't stand them and it put the monarchy in jeopardy for a while.
Yes, the Hanoverians were quite a messy lot. Then again, I suppose nearly all the royal houses are/were pretty dysfunctional in one way or another. Charles I seemed to love his wife and kids and vice versa, but it's tough to think of other examples. Even the Windsors are pretty messed up at this point with all the Andrew and Harry drama.
Commenting for the algorithm. ❤
Thank you :-)
This was indeed fascinating! Thanks so much for the thorough break down! I knew most of the story thanks in part to some of your other videos but I was unaware that a younger Prince had actually produced a boy I confess that had I known about him I would have guessed that he (as a boy) would outrank Victoria Such is the limited understanding of the rules of succession of an American amateur But my goodness! Talk about the law of diminishing returns!! Honestly I think we have to chalk up the succession crisis to George III's mental illness! Had the King and Queen NOT been so distracted by his mental fragility they may have better seen to the succession My guess is - after his initial bout with madness - both of them tried to keep things as calm and unchanging as possible! No new in-laws - no one leaving the nest - take it one day at a time etc But it's very sad All those illegitimate grandchildren and they couldn't acknowledge and be proud of a single one! One wonders if they ever even met any of them! A video examining Queen Adelaide would be very interesting to me I feel very sorry for her losses
Thank you. Yes, I wasn't familiar with Victoria's younger cousins either (or little Princess Elizabeth). They've basically been forgotten by history unfortunately. Yes, GIII and Charlotte really should have taken better care of their children's marital prospects. All their eggs should never have been in one basket (that basket being Princess Charlotte).
Good Lord woman! How do you do it?💖💖💖
Haha, lots of research and time spent putting together family trees.
Legit thought you said “he’s ugly” not “ he’s out” at 5:47 😂 whoops
it's all so so "undignified" ... kind of like the monarchy reduced to the farmyard
Yes, absolutely. I suppose that's how it's always been for the heirs and their spouses though.
It is distressing to see how the Prince Regent and the Duke of Clarence abandoned longtime mistresses and many children to marry to their advantage. (The Regent had actually gone through a form of marriage with his mistress.) Though the Duke of Kent abandoned his mistress of longstanding to marry Princess Victoria, at least he did not abandon children to do so. Not a very admirable bunch.
I mean the Prince Regent arguably should have been allowed to just have Mrs Fitzherbert as his wife. They were both consenting adults and saying he was single when he married Caroline of Brunswick is just a legal fiction in my view. I think that religiously and morally speaking, he was already married.
@@HistoryCalling I think that's right. But they were never going to let a marriage which had the double issue of contravening the Royal Marriage Act, and was to Catholic lady to boot stand. If the marriage had been viewed as valid, the Prince of Wales would have been excluded from the succession. (Maybe not the worst result in the world...)
Duke William of Clarence, future king William, abandoned not only his long-term mistress but their 10 children as well. These children were acknowledged by him as the Fitzwilliams, but they were exempt from the line of succession.
@@soso4169 That was what I was trying to convey.
Not sure if you can answer this, but did Queen Victoria have blond, brown, or dark brown hair? The paintings of her as a child show her almost blond. By her "tween" years, the paintings show slightly darker hair. But in every image I can remember seeing of her as an adult, she has very dark hair - then gray as she aged. Was this "poetic license" by the painters? Did they even have hair dye back then? I'm probably making too much of this, but the pictures of her as a child took me aback. I never imagined, nor seen, Queen Victoria with blondish hair.
I think she probably started off fair and then darkened down as she aged. It's quite common. Angelina Jolie was blonde as a child for instance (there are photos online), then became brunette and I know a few people who were much lighter as little kids as well (including several family members).
She's right victoria was blonde and her hair darkened as she aged
Not being male, I can't really answer the question. But I think that the "prize" for begetting the heir to the throne of GB, was enormous. So for that reason I think that most men would go for it.
Yeah, I'm not surprised William and Edward went for it. I was a little bit more surprised the younger brothers did though.
Madame St. Laurent??? Like Yves St. Laurent?? Is there a connection??
I don't wonder at the brothers hurriedly getting married. What I wonder is their brides hurriedly marrying someone who would be so far down from the succession. After all they were married men who didn't exactly want to be married.
I suppose there was still the chance to be an English royal duchess and that's not to be sniffed at, plus Adelaide got to be Queen.
@@HistoryCallinga valid point. But I still wonder if some of them had qualms about it. And of course families could put big pressure on you because they wanted the reflected glory. But I still feel sorry for those women. Women were used as brood mares definitely but this really just smacks you in the face that you're a brood mare.
The filmmaker in me keeps thinking that every time HC shows the four Royal Naughty Notties there needs to be some kind of audio comment: first, I thought of a bunch of howling coyotes. Too direct. Then maybe some sleazy adult-film saxophone music. Nope, tacky and obvious. But then I hit on it: Barry White. Maybe just the right snippet of "Never, Never Gonna Give Ya Up". Or "I'm Gonna Love You Just a Bit More, Baby".
Ah, if only it weren't for musical copyright infringement :-)