Got here from Reddit. Love your work, really puts history in context. I am in the process of watching them all.Thank you. yours a former south Londoner.
Henry knew his friend as a social inferior, and possibly somewhat of a courtier. But he did not know the true man well. What he became once he had a near equal position was a unwelcome surprise.
What a dusty gem this is! I've never seen that statue; It's impressive! So much emotion in his body! I also appreciate that the rust stains under his elbow and back look a bit like blood. I've always been on Becket's side.
Full disclosure I am a practicing Christian but I don't think I would be on Beckett's side. Depending, of course on the offenses of these clerics, the church should be handing them over to the state, especially if they've done something against a person of the state/kingdom.
This was a really well written and concise history. I’m a history geek and sometimes I like quick refreshers and background while I’m watching or reading something. This was perfect. Thanks! PS: I love ur hair color
All the questions I’ve had about Thomas Beckett, now answered! You’re putting certain histories into context for me. You and Tasting History with Max Miller are THE BEST of TH-cam. Thank you!
I have notice and watched your channel and finally have subscribed. I love your channel anf greatly admire your particular style of presentation, both of yourself and your topics. Thank you, Draper.
JDraper, I'm glad to have found yet another channel that treats history as a worthwhile subject of discourse. Elsewhere I've ranted on about "Received narrative," the story we are encouraged to believe about our past. Thank you
Very interesting. Having read Chaucer, I wanted to visit the martyr's tomb when I was in England. When I got to Canterbury I found that another Henry had got there first :( I would be very interested to hear your take on Thomas More. The portrait in A man for all seasons is not at all the man portrayed by Hillary Mantel.
@@silasfrisenette9226 Best to reat Hillary Mantel's trilogy but in short, she portrays Moore as a hairshirted zealot that burned a lot of protestant heritics. Not the honorable family man full of justice and decency that A Man for All Seasons portrays. Not that she portray him as dishonerable, the dishonorable guy in both stories is Richard Rich, although Mantel makes him out as a realpolitic operator, Moore is portrayed as a intolerant bastard that nobody really likes.
Regardless of views on Henry 2 vs TB & church v state, one thing we can hopefully(?) all agree on is that Henry 8 suuucked - an important conclusion/consensus, when that type of "leader" is currently an aspirational goal of our current flock of politicians (and not just England)
Henry the Eighth had some major balls. Being willing so many times to completely defy the strong religious sentiment of the overwhelming majority of the country (including the powerful), it's pretty amazing that he got away with that. Powerful men have been killed for far lesser offenses.
Alright, I've officially seen all your videos. 🖤👌🏾 Please make more. Loved the Benin Kingdom piece too, would love to see some more Afro content, especially historical East African interactions with London, it's hard to come by such content and I guarantee a thirsty viewership 🙂
I side with Henry on the reforms. Having the church being responsible for taking care of defaulting priests is giving them a get out of free card. Also given the kind of people the popes were at this time…..
In light of how churches of all denominations have dealt with sexual abuse by priests even in modern times, you'd think having civil authorities deal with their crimes would be a no-brainer.
@J.Rennnocks I really liked the video and this i the most explanatory and fun one i have watched. Thank you very much. I have no clue how to change my name but it is Belle. And i think that you have some kids because they are i think in the background, they do sound very cute. :)
I took a medieval history course at some point. Wasn’t Becket a bit of a rogue prior to his appointment as archbishop? And didn’t he get his appointment not just at the suggestion of another political figure, but because he and Henry had a history of friendship prior to Becket’s change in character from roguish to sacrosanct and pontificating?
I wonder if an argument against the clerics (constitution of Clarendon) regarding their "offenses against people/society" was put forth as an offense against the people/persons as STATE entities? Meaning the jurisdiction of the church would not apply to cleric offenses but to the king; therfore giving the Constitution of Clerndon more "weight on the scale." 🥰
Maybe canonizing him was faster because he was considered a martyr? That's an automatic Sainthood in the Catholic Church, no need to prove any miracles.
I have always felt sympathy for both parties. It's sad that two people who clearly cared for each other could end up hurting each other so severely. They also both had values and good points but were so unyielding and steadfast in them that it's hard to say one over the other was clearly in the wrong. The only people I have trouble siding with are the knights. I mean I understand what they were thinking but I can't really justify them riding off to do brutal murder based on a off hand comment. Like honestly even if the king was hinting at something why would you one not make sure you had more hints and two do it broad daylight at a church?! I had never heard the story about the cloak before, it seems kind of poetic or apocryphal if you look at their relationship. Just a sad story all around, even more tragic because I do not think there was any way around them falling out not unless beckett was never appointed. Both of them were just trying to do what they thought was right...
If this was the only bad thing Henry II had happen during his reign, okay. Unfortunately, he was a full blown wack a doodle who could be a character from Suetonius' Twelve Caesars.
Fresher air! Your lively,direct,wry presentation surely amplifies the meaning of your fascinating historical analysis in our You Tube consuming brains. I binge watched. Engaging! That's the word. I've read some historians in my time. Wankers mostly, I've shit ' em! But your expositions feel as authentically true as they can be and as convincing as they can be in the light of evidence. Thank you. If you re interested in the demographic of your commenters, I'm male,English,72, retired archaeologist and dyed in the wool lefty. Do I wrongly guess that so are you?!
Why can I hear so much pain and tenderness in your voice and presentation here ? Its a deeply disturbing painful story and I feel every tick of the clock.
A bet almost anyone can win in a bar. Ask : who was the only actor to portray Henry II on film, twice and what were the movies. Answer Peter O’Toole. Guaranteed to win you 20 quid.
We have seen even in modern times how allowing the church to handle it's own affairs has led to abuse so I am in favour of King Henry II reforms. However Beckett didn't deserve to die. I just feel for how gutted the king must have been when he discovered that his own careless words had cost the life of his closest friend.
Hi Glenda! Thanks for the question! What Henry exactly intended with his words is the kind of thing historians love to argue about. But what we do know is that Henry himself thought he shared some of the blame- he did public penance at St. Dunstan's, being whipped by bishops, confessing his sins and holding a vigil at Becket's tomb. That's not the sort of thing you do if you don't feel a *bit* responsible for what happened.
Okay then! Challenge accepted! Thomas Beckett went overboard and in such a manner that he did damage to the rule of a lawful king! And... he betrayed thusly their friendship. Only because he had power and indepence! To me? He's an a..hole first class! And that sainthood? Pure politics!
Have you looked at the Wikipedia pages for Henry VIII and all his wives. There's affairs EVERYWHERE and is fascinating, then you click through to find more scandals!
Beckett is one of those who are responsible for todays church problem…ps as you say Beckett place in his job because of the king (cronyism) if he hated the practice he should have humbly quit 🤔right
![เบิ้ล ปทุมราช - สาวสอง ( มีมี่ของอ้าย ) ft. ตาต้า,ต้องเต [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mqlMjnP08XI/mqdefault.jpg)
Got here from Reddit. Love your work, really puts history in context. I am in the process of watching them all.Thank you. yours a former south Londoner.
I love these shows as someone who stops and reads every historical plaque I come accross these shows are like candy for me
Henry knew his friend as a social inferior, and possibly somewhat of a courtier. But he did not know the true man well. What he became once he had a near equal position was a unwelcome surprise.
Who can know how friends will change when said friends paradigm shifts...
What a dusty gem this is! I've never seen that statue; It's impressive! So much emotion in his body! I also appreciate that the rust stains under his elbow and back look a bit like blood. I've always been on Becket's side.
Full disclosure I am a practicing Christian but I don't think I would be on Beckett's side. Depending, of course on the offenses of these clerics, the church should be handing them over to the state, especially if they've done something against a person of the state/kingdom.
Loved this short intro to Becket. Well done, not too detailed, but leaving out nothing important. Perfect.
This was a really well written and concise history. I’m a history geek and sometimes I like quick refreshers and background while I’m watching or reading something. This was perfect. Thanks!
PS: I love ur hair color
Hair coordination with tapestry. That's a historian.
All the questions I’ve had about Thomas Beckett, now answered! You’re putting certain histories into context for me. You and Tasting History with Max Miller are THE BEST of TH-cam. Thank you!
That would be a great crossover.🤞
Love Max's content! As a history buff and a chef, it hits both needs 😊.
Came here from your recent videos and i can really see an improvement; but the skeleton is already there! Loving your channel.
'Becket ou l'honneur de Dieu' by Anouilh is a really good read. The play (I believe it is a play) captivates the essence of this story.
I have notice and watched your channel and finally have subscribed. I love your channel anf greatly admire your particular style of presentation, both of yourself and your topics.
Thank you, Draper.
JDraper, I'm glad to have found yet another channel that treats history as a worthwhile subject of
discourse. Elsewhere I've ranted on about "Received narrative," the story we are encouraged to believe about our past. Thank you
I've just started watching your videos and I love them.
I've only watched 3 so far but I am on A binge watch as we speak. 😁
Very interesting. Having read Chaucer, I wanted to visit the martyr's tomb when I was in England. When I got to Canterbury I found that another Henry had got there first :( I would be very interested to hear your take on Thomas More. The portrait in A man for all seasons is not at all the man portrayed by Hillary Mantel.
How do they differ? (Just curious)
@@silasfrisenette9226 Best to reat Hillary Mantel's trilogy but in short, she portrays Moore as a hairshirted zealot that burned a lot of protestant heritics. Not the honorable family man full of justice and decency that A Man for All Seasons portrays. Not that she portray him as dishonerable, the dishonorable guy in both stories is Richard Rich, although Mantel makes him out as a realpolitic operator, Moore is portrayed as a intolerant bastard that nobody really likes.
@@hankcohen3419 interesting!! Thank you
I was staying in Canterbury last week and made clumsy attempts to explain the Becket story to my children. I wish I'd shown them this video!
Regardless of views on Henry 2 vs TB & church v state, one thing we can hopefully(?) all agree on is that Henry 8 suuucked - an important conclusion/consensus, when that type of "leader" is currently an aspirational goal of our current flock of politicians (and not just England)
J. I just found this, I’m a Big fan of your style.
Cheers From California 😎
Wow!! So glad I caught one of your shorts. Fantastic content.
Henry the Eighth had some major balls. Being willing so many times to completely defy the strong religious sentiment of the overwhelming majority of the country (including the powerful), it's pretty amazing that he got away with that. Powerful men have been killed for far lesser offenses.
great video, very informative and interesting
Great video. Rather, great videos.
Thomas Becket, Patron Saint of "Hide the Criminal Priests in a Monestary"
Interesting as Henry the 8th had his own Becket in Thomas More.
Thanks so much for this!!!
Alright, I've officially seen all your videos. 🖤👌🏾 Please make more. Loved the Benin Kingdom piece too, would love to see some more Afro content, especially historical East African interactions with London, it's hard to come by such content and I guarantee a thirsty viewership 🙂
thank you for this video it really helped me
It can be pretty quick now (on the Catholic side); might be a little longer between Roma and Geneva. Of course, you guys brought him back . . . .
I side with Henry on the reforms. Having the church being responsible for taking care of defaulting priests is giving them a get out of free card. Also given the kind of people the popes were at this time…..
In light of how churches of all denominations have dealt with sexual abuse by priests even in modern times, you'd think having civil authorities deal with their crimes would be a no-brainer.
Thank you so much this really helped with my essay I have to write on him
Once again thank you so so much
One of your best.
THANKS IT REALLY HELPED
Thanks, really helpful :)
Love it :-) Great video
Great video 👍
Thank you.
@J.Rennnocks I really liked the video and this i the most explanatory and fun one i have watched.
Thank you very much.
I have no clue how to change my name but it is Belle. And i think that you have some kids because they are i think in the background, they do sound very cute. :)
I took a medieval history course at some point. Wasn’t Becket a bit of a rogue prior to his appointment as archbishop? And didn’t he get his appointment not just at the suggestion of another political figure, but because he and Henry had a history of friendship prior to Becket’s change in character from roguish to sacrosanct and pontificating?
You tell amazing history. Thank you
I wonder if an argument against the clerics (constitution of Clarendon) regarding their "offenses against people/society" was put forth as an offense against the people/persons as STATE entities? Meaning the jurisdiction of the church would not apply to cleric offenses but to the king; therfore giving the Constitution of Clerndon more "weight on the scale." 🥰
You have failed to mention the brilliant film, "Becket" with Peter O'Toole and Richard Burton, as Henry and Thomas, respectively.
Maybe canonizing him was faster because he was considered a martyr? That's an automatic Sainthood in the Catholic Church, no need to prove any miracles.
I have always felt sympathy for both parties. It's sad that two people who clearly cared for each other could end up hurting each other so severely. They also both had values and good points but were so unyielding and steadfast in them that it's hard to say one over the other was clearly in the wrong. The only people I have trouble siding with are the knights. I mean I understand what they were thinking but I can't really justify them riding off to do brutal murder based on a off hand comment. Like honestly even if the king was hinting at something why would you one not make sure you had more hints and two do it broad daylight at a church?!
I had never heard the story about the cloak before, it seems kind of poetic or apocryphal if you look at their relationship.
Just a sad story all around, even more tragic because I do not think there was any way around them falling out not unless beckett was never appointed.
Both of them were just trying to do what they thought was right...
If this was the only bad thing Henry II had happen during his reign, okay. Unfortunately, he was a full blown wack a doodle who could be a character from Suetonius' Twelve Caesars.
Fresher air! Your lively,direct,wry presentation surely amplifies the meaning of your fascinating historical analysis in our You Tube consuming brains. I binge watched. Engaging! That's the word. I've read some historians in my time. Wankers mostly, I've shit ' em! But your expositions feel as authentically true as they can be and as convincing as they can be in the light of evidence. Thank you. If you re interested in the demographic of your commenters, I'm male,English,72, retired archaeologist and dyed in the wool lefty. Do I wrongly guess that so are you?!
❤😊❤❤❤❤
becket is tom foolery 😅
I dare You! I double dare to answer!
Why can I hear so much pain and tenderness in your voice and presentation here ? Its a deeply disturbing painful story and I feel every tick of the clock.
A bet almost anyone can win in a bar. Ask : who was the only actor to portray Henry II on film, twice and what were the movies. Answer Peter O’Toole. Guaranteed to win you 20 quid.
Totally with Henry 2 on that one. Beckett was completely taking the piss
Considering the Catholic church's handling of pedophilia and molestation, I tend to agree.
I don't think henry ii wanted him died, my guess is he just wanted him to lose his job.
We have seen even in modern times how allowing the church to handle it's own affairs has led to abuse so I am in favour of King Henry II reforms. However Beckett didn't deserve to die. I just feel for how gutted the king must have been when he discovered that his own careless words had cost the life of his closest friend.
We can't say that Henry killed him, can we?
Hi Glenda! Thanks for the question! What Henry exactly intended with his words is the kind of thing historians love to argue about. But what we do know is that Henry himself thought he shared some of the blame- he did public penance at St. Dunstan's, being whipped by bishops, confessing his sins and holding a vigil at Becket's tomb. That's not the sort of thing you do if you don't feel a *bit* responsible for what happened.
@@JDraper True - and charmingly understated, thank you.
Okay then! Challenge accepted! Thomas Beckett went overboard and in such a manner that he did damage to the rule of a lawful king! And... he betrayed thusly their friendship. Only because he had power and indepence! To me? He's an a..hole first class! And that sainthood? Pure politics!
Becket got what he deserved.
Have you looked at the Wikipedia pages for Henry VIII and all his wives. There's affairs EVERYWHERE and is fascinating, then you click through to find more scandals!
Beckett is one of those who are responsible for todays church problem…ps as you say Beckett place in his job because of the king (cronyism) if he hated the practice he should have humbly quit 🤔right
toes
Just the lefty bit.
Henry VIII, trashy as always
King Henry the second
Killed Thomas à becket.
Felt he had a good thing,
And Thomas would wreck it.