You guys totally missed that you don’t need to cast the cards for brainstealer dragon. Any card entering that an opponent owns triggers it, including your commanders ability
@@varlmorgaine3700 same I wouldn't have cut brainstealer dragon either I'm actually planning on mixing horrors and rogues in the deck to mill and some loot effects on a few big creatures of mine to reanimate via reanimate, animate dead, etc is way more efficient and has impact with fewer mana. Totally missed there.
What Murph said still stands. The 7 mana investment in it still isn't worth it, even when the commander adds to the life loss trigger. It doesn't impact the board enough for 7 mana. Even if you resurrect a 7 mana permanent each turn, that 7 life loss only goes to ONE opponent (the one you took it from); that's a minimum of a 18 turn clock, and only if you take a 7 mana permanent each turn. The only reason to choose to keep the dragon is just if you like the card, which is 100% a valid reason, as that's the whole point of commander. However, if solely for performance, Murph made the right call to cut it.
I would like to point out that the Zellix/Haunted One does let you play semi on-curve. Play Zellix on Turn 3, Haunted One on Turn 4, use the remaining mana to activate Zellix to mill cards and let you swing with a 1 or 2-drop Horror you might have gotten out.
Okay but counterpoint to the brainteasers dragon. The second part triggers because of the commander. So even if you never used the exiled cards you still get the second trigger from your commander stealing things
This is one of the best pre-cons i have ever played out of the box. I absolutely love the Illithid lore from DND, and how the deck plays with N,ghathrod works superbly well. Not only per lore, but also per gameplay in general.
The clunky argument for the background commander I disagree with. You cast the creature first and then at 4 mana you cast the background and you have 1 mana to activate your creature.
Getting a two card combo online that only mills 3 cards from a single player and bricks every time you don't hit a creature is the definition of clunky. Lmao
I'd say keep Brainstealer Dragon and add Rise of the Dark Realm, every creature in your opponents graveyard comes into play under your control and deals damage equal to its mana value to them, that's a two card combo that could win the game on the spot!
I defnitely do not agree with the Brainstealer Dragon cut. It's not just a big beaty horror, it's a big beaty horror with evasion which makes it easy to trigger the commander's mill effect and the second effect of the dragon works with the stolen creatures from the commander.
I mean with Brainstealer Dragon, each creature you get from your commander will trigger the effect on Brainstealer. So you steal something from their graveyard and then do damage to them as well. I know it's 7 mana, but I feel it's still worth a slot. Gonna keep it in my deck when I build it.
Altar of the brood and Zellix (the background commander), theoretically could go infinite. Zellix enter, mill each opponent from the Altar, creates a horror off of zellix, which triggers altar, etc etc
Surprised they didnt mention toxril, especially since tox paired with the other horror that gives slime counters. With both you can just turn off creatures for your opponents, since with a slime counter they become 2/2 and then tox says slime counters give -1/-1 so in 2 turns you wipe your opponents boards
Cool thing about Hullbreaker Horror. I run one in my Animar deck and it is just a better cloudstone curio. If Animar has 5 +1/+1 on it, Hullbreaker becomes a cheaper cloud stone curio to cast; that can't be countered
On Zellix, Sanity Flayer and Haunted One: The 'nice' thing here is that you can play Zellix, and on the next turn play Haunted one and then activate Zellix. So you're still spending the four mana. So I'd argue it's not as clunky as they say in the video. But maybe I'm just bad at gauging the usefulness of cards.
To be fair "Reflections of Littjara" works better with Zellix + Haunted One if you want to go wide. But in general I really hate that 5 CMC cards can't be comfortably played in Commander anymore. The format has become way too fast!
Zelix actually goes infinite quite easily with Altar of Dementia, activate Zelix or another form of mill, an opponent mills triggering Zelix to make a 1/1 horror token, sacrifice the token to Altar of Dementia, mill a player 1, triggers Zelix to make a horror, sacrifice the horror to altar….. infinite mill to all opponent
@Wooter ...No, he doesn't. You can't just mill cards, you have to mill creature cards to get the token. The cycle breaks the moment you don't hit a creature card to produce a token and considering that you're only milling one card at a time...
On River of Tears: if you've played a land, you HAVE to add black; you don't get to choose. Just good to be aware of. So if you want to be able to choose, wait with playing your land until you know you're going to use the River.
Honestly as soon as I saw Mind Crank, I thought there's absolutely no way I'd play this deck without Duskmantle Guildmage or Bloodchief Ascension. After that I would probably cut the bad horrors for Animate Dead, Scarab God, and Wrexial, the Risen Deep to take advantage of the growing graveyards, then I'd probably cut Reflections of Littjara for Torment of Hailfire and cut some of the durdley cards for better counter/removal like Memory Lapse, Counterspell, Damnation, and Heartless Act.
I'm definitely putting Psychic Corrosion, Sphinx's Tutelage and maybe Drowned Secrets in this deck. Consistent mill and on your turn, so you can take advantage of it with Cap'n. Also, while Philosopher is a great card, i think the best new card in this deck is Aboleth Spawn. Copying ETBs on flash speed, and protects itself with ward. a lot better than philosopher imo
ok why didn't i see toxrill as a honorable mention you know damn well thats the one horror you always add to you deck plus it even comes with the sluge monster so that nasty combo is in there. and even worse thing in the ice didn't even get mentioned either thats horror tribal perfection with the cyclonic rift bounce when flipped
After playing both zellix is bar the stronger of the two and it’s not even close. Altar of the brood, altar of dementia, and mesmeric orb all come out extremely early and can nearly win the game on the spot. Also undying at instant speed, makes your board much harder to deal with. You can play impactful artifacts and enchantments early with zellix and hold up mana to counter, draw and kill at instant speed the rest of the game when your engine is up and running. Also you get access to things like ashnods and phyrexian altar and skull clamp.
I’m still of the mindset that it’s more horror tribal, with a mill sub theme. The more horrors you create the more wide spread you can mill so your commander can conscript from multiple opponents. I don’t know about anyone else’s play group, but players that mill opponents too much get a lot of hate.
caught herald's horn at the bottom around $3.50/card and now theyre back up to 8 lol Also, turn 3 play zellix, turn 4 play haunted one and activate zellix. is the only play pattern if you have both.
One thing to note about the zellix/haunted one combo is that tokens get +2/0 but they don't come back even with undying because they're tokens. Still not a bad card but it didn't combo with zellix as much as I thought it would
Def agree with all your cards to take out minus the copy creature spell enchantment. Having more threat on the board is always nice. Yes, I can’t play this and get much value out of it that turn. But it gets me set up for future plays.
Works for 1 game until your friends realize they need tokens with more than 1 toughness. Playing this made things considerably more difficult for myself with my group. Was a funny night though the one time I got to actually use it.
What do you guys think about Gyruda? Not a Horror but does mill everyone four cards and you get an even cmc creature on top of what you’d get from your commander’s ability too. Also Trepanation Blade could be a cool include as well.
If you run the backround commander you play out Zelix turn 3, he has summoning sickess so you can't tap him yet but at turn 4 assuming you haven't missed a land drop you pay 3 for the backround and use your extra land to activate Zelix.
turn 3 into turn four assuming you did nothing for 2 other turns but play land. tap three mana, play your Zilix, sanity flayer. turn four, pllay a land and then play your background, spend your 4 mana to activate zilix to give everything 2/0. would be kinda bad to summon single horror but you got two cards to the field turn 4.
I am new to commander but I got this precon since it looks so fun. I really like the idea of Agent of Treachery in this deck, you are going to be stealing quite a few cards you don't own and would give you tons of draw when you might otherwise be overextended on the board. You can combo this with cards like Gonti, Lord of Luxury to push the "steal" theme even harder. Any thoughts?
I personally prefer zellix and haunted one. The triggered ability really lets you go wild with some card interaction. I've come across accidental combos with cards like; Altar of the Brood goes psuedo-infinite with zellix, kindred discovery + Psychic Corrosion goes psuedo-infinite with zellix, and the reliable undying breaks Retribution of the Ancients. Plus, reliable 1 mana mill opens up more cards to become viable. Like brainstorm and expel from orazca. It may not be as strong but i enjoy the deckbuilding more. Edit: Oh yeah and you can use altar of dementia. BOTH on your tokens to hopefully get more tokens and to sac horrors with ETBs to come back with undying.
A card I love in this deck as an easy budget add is Eldritch Pact. As you mill people you just pop it and that person dies. Its a 7 mana "kill that player" card. as long as you have been milling
I’m surprised you guys didn’t mention Wonder, from MH and MH2. Super super cheap (less that $1) and the fact it gives your creatures flying as long as it’s in the graveyard is so good. Flying and menace is a great way to get through for damage.
If you can find a good flashback spell or two to go with it then Entomb is also good add with Wonder and those. Also if you play windfall-type card draw to make Psychosis Crawler better you can discard Wonder to those.
I would like to correct Murph on something he said. he said "psychosis crawler belongs in wheel decks". I subscribe to the RTCETC logic and will point out that if you wheel with psychosis crawler out, it will die because at some point, (after discarding your hand notably) all hands will be empty and it will be a 0/0 and die, so unless you have some effect that gives it a static +1/+1 it will simply die. I think it's really cool that people collect these old consoles or have the new versions of them. I myself own a Nintendo Entertainment System mini that has 30 built-in games on it. all the classics of course, super Mario 1, 2 and 3, Zelda 1 and 2 and 25 other games.
It actually doesn’t die! I looked up the ruling before and due to state based actions it only checks it’s power before resolving the spell and then afterwards. I used to think the same
Plague Spitter seemed bad at first but looks like a great way to reliably mill your opponents a single guaranteed shot every turn, and again when he dies. Even if its at the cost of pinging your own stuff.
Honestly you can get rid of a few cards and add some rogues to the brew, like half horrors and half rogues that do a splendid mill job. You may also add some reanimation spells and not having only your commander do the job: reanimate, animate dead, etc. and get additional support to loot your own big creatures and put them in play early via this way. Also add a Duskmantle Guildmage just because it fits perfect and a lazav dimir mastermind.
while I do understand why douthy horror and brain stealer dragon were cut from this deck. I think that it is also important to be mindful that this deck does not have ways to produce unblockable creatures out of the box. in my experience there will be cases where you are facing down a large board from your opponent and you need an unblockable creature. cards like wonder, aether tunnel, cloak of mists, and aqueos form, while enchant to other creatures, can most certenly help the deck with trying to get over bigger boards to mill some cards. brain stealer dragon and douthy horror are especially good because brain stealer dragon is a flyer that can swing for big damage uncontested, and the same goes for douthy horror. i would striongly suggest keeping these in on the soul princible that the deck will eventually need cards that are unblockable.
Get some clones in your Deck such as Sakashima or Spark Double to copy your Commander. This means your mill triggers twice but you also get to reanimate twice at end of turn
I played Grell Philosopher in my Umbris deck and none of my opponents ever had an artifact with an activated ability! Didn't help that I exiled all three Sol Rings with Umbris triggers, but still!
Also, notice that vedalken orarie gives "nonland permanents" flash, and leyline of anticipation give "spells" flash, meaning that it also gives your sorceries flash.
Yeah i kinda agree. definitely think plague spitter and dragon are bad cuts. plague spitter helps clear the way of dorks and tokens while being an attacker the turn captain comes down and dragon is a way to close out games in the end while being on theme. their explanations makes enough sense but I think the minor downsides are worth what those two cards bring to the table. not to mention good horrors are slim pickings
Plague Spitter is amazing though! Drain the whole table and kill enemies' tokens! It hurts your opponents far more than you (unless you're playing zellix). I won a game last week where I dropped Plague Spitter and then played Endless Evil on it and drained the whole table to death with copies of plague Spitter!
Great Episode! Seriously those were some good edits but I have to disagree with that Nihilith cut, with the amount of mill you now have in your new upgraded deck you will pretty much be paying 1B for a 4/4 with fear which earlier when talking about Cover of darkness you said is "pretty much unblockable to at least one half of the board" so I figured that an unblockable 4/4 horror would be pretty good in a deck that is based around big horrors connecting right? Edit: Also considering almost every creature in the deck is a horror then I would think its pretty good. Second Edit LOL: TheRoonage talked about how Brainstealer is actually really good because every card you steal with CN will actually ping your opponents (If your stealing big stuff which you should be doing then you are pinging LOTS of damage)
10:00 Hold on. There are SEVEN cards that are $5+? And their total value is $26.70? 5*7 = 35, right? For the $2 cards, I'm sure that's fine. The numbers add up her, funnily enough. (take away the $5+ cards and we're left with about $20 and about 10 cards). It just doesn't make sense to me, is all.
In a game against my husband, I combined consuming aberration with mindcrank, reflections of littjara, and captain n'gathrod to completely mill his entire deck and kill him in two turns. The consuming aberration was copied by the littjara enchantment and there was already like 20 cards in his graveyard - i attacked with the original and copy for around 40 damage (give or take). This triggered mindcrank and captain ngathrod to mill the rest of his deck down to zero. I killed him the next round when he had no cards left and almost zero life. Fun times.
I knew I had to cut some, but EIGHT horrors? I guess if you want to play a Captain Nag deck that makes sense. Then mill is better. I am going to try to keep mine a horror deck however. (yea plaguespitter and the dross guy are still out for me).
Mind flayer the shadow was my first thought the secret lair horror it does everything the commander wants stealing your opponents permanents and it’s a 9/9 so you can easily make it a creature
The first horror that came in mind was Thing in the ice, but considering that we would control opponents' creatures, it would return them to their hands, since we wouldn't own them. I still don't know if Thing in the ice keeps being good despite of that.
You guys totally missed that you don’t need to cast the cards for brainstealer dragon. Any card entering that an opponent owns triggers it, including your commanders ability
yeah they missed some on this one, feels a littled hastly made.
@@varlmorgaine3700 same I wouldn't have cut brainstealer dragon either I'm actually planning on mixing horrors and rogues in the deck to mill and some loot effects on a few big creatures of mine to reanimate via reanimate, animate dead, etc is way more efficient and has impact with fewer mana. Totally missed there.
@@Orelusz yes had thought something in this direction too.
Just thought more in the direction of copies and shapeshifters.
@@varlmorgaine3700 New sets and precons coming out so frequently, seems easy to rush things these days.
What Murph said still stands. The 7 mana investment in it still isn't worth it, even when the commander adds to the life loss trigger. It doesn't impact the board enough for 7 mana. Even if you resurrect a 7 mana permanent each turn, that 7 life loss only goes to ONE opponent (the one you took it from); that's a minimum of a 18 turn clock, and only if you take a 7 mana permanent each turn.
The only reason to choose to keep the dragon is just if you like the card, which is 100% a valid reason, as that's the whole point of commander. However, if solely for performance, Murph made the right call to cut it.
I would like to point out that the Zellix/Haunted One does let you play semi on-curve. Play Zellix on Turn 3, Haunted One on Turn 4, use the remaining mana to activate Zellix to mill cards and let you swing with a 1 or 2-drop Horror you might have gotten out.
Yep, good call.
Agreed, I run that commander combonation and morphed the deck into Horror tribal with cloning, adding cards like paradox haze.
@@TerroristPenguin decklist??
Okay but counterpoint to the brainteasers dragon. The second part triggers because of the commander. So even if you never used the exiled cards you still get the second trigger from your commander stealing things
This is one of the best pre-cons i have ever played out of the box. I absolutely love the Illithid lore from DND, and how the deck plays with N,ghathrod works superbly well. Not only per lore, but also per gameplay in general.
I think maskwood nexus would be a really good card to throw in, so the creatures you steal are also horrors
It is, if i remember correctly, inside the deck ^^"
@@Koresh5610 you don't remember correctly. (it is on the party deck tho)
Conspiracy or arcane adaptation also does the same thing too :)
@@Zenondikar I'm not familiar with those cards, do they do like the exact same thing
@@omnesignis2714 can run ALL of them ;)
The clunky argument for the background commander I disagree with. You cast the creature first and then at 4 mana you cast the background and you have 1 mana to activate your creature.
Getting a two card combo online that only mills 3 cards from a single player and bricks every time you don't hit a creature is the definition of clunky. Lmao
I'd say keep Brainstealer Dragon and add Rise of the Dark Realm, every creature in your opponents graveyard comes into play under your control and deals damage equal to its mana value to them, that's a two card combo that could win the game on the spot!
Man I was debating getting rise of the dark realms but didn't even think of this so now I'm getting one when I get paid lol
I defnitely do not agree with the Brainstealer Dragon cut. It's not just a big beaty horror, it's a big beaty horror with evasion which makes it easy to trigger the commander's mill effect and the second effect of the dragon works with the stolen creatures from the commander.
Yeah, they really blew it with this cut.
I think you guys were too focused on the first ability on brainstealer dragon. The 2nd ability is really synergistic with all our reanimation effects
Oh my god your right, every card your stealing is gonna start pinging them to death. I might actually include the dragon in my CN deck
Thank god someone said this because 1000% the dragon is a top 5 card in this deck
"If you hit them with a 40/40 they mill 40 cards"
"No, if you hit them with a 40/40 the die Jimmy"
Couldn't even breathe after that HAHAHA
@@mgarratt101 You must be really funny at parties
@@theonewhohasowotism4093 Just leave the edge lord alone, it's easier haha
@@Luismariobros Most def lmao
I mean with Brainstealer Dragon, each creature you get from your commander will trigger the effect on Brainstealer. So you steal something from their graveyard and then do damage to them as well. I know it's 7 mana, but I feel it's still worth a slot. Gonna keep it in my deck when I build it.
I believe it was a mistake to cut Brainstealer Dragon is synergizes very well with the commander.
Altar of the brood and Zellix (the background commander), theoretically could go infinite. Zellix enter, mill each opponent from the Altar, creates a horror off of zellix, which triggers altar, etc etc
Maddening cacophony is the best card for this deck. Strionic resonator is also sick
How would you use the resonator to synergies w this deck? (New player, genuine question)
@@Combo_Lab you can use resonator to double negathrods ability trigger, letting you grab two things for just two mana. Super powerful.
Surprised they didnt mention toxril, especially since tox paired with the other horror that gives slime counters. With both you can just turn off creatures for your opponents, since with a slime counter they become 2/2 and then tox says slime counters give -1/-1 so in 2 turns you wipe your opponents boards
Tox is a game ender if he makes it around the table
$13 isnt reeaaly budget...
Toxrill is cool but SO expensive to get on the board.
7 cards are 5$ or more and the total value for cards costing 5$ or more is projected as 27$. I don't think that's right.
Cool thing about Hullbreaker Horror. I run one in my Animar deck and it is just a better cloudstone curio. If Animar has 5 +1/+1 on it, Hullbreaker becomes a cheaper cloud stone curio to cast; that can't be countered
On Zellix, Sanity Flayer and Haunted One: The 'nice' thing here is that you can play Zellix, and on the next turn play Haunted one and then activate Zellix. So you're still spending the four mana. So I'd argue it's not as clunky as they say in the video. But maybe I'm just bad at gauging the usefulness of cards.
No you're right, they didn't think of that.
To be fair "Reflections of Littjara" works better with Zellix + Haunted One if you want to go wide.
But in general I really hate that 5 CMC cards can't be comfortably played in Commander anymore. The format has become way too fast!
@Chandra’s_Bro_17 I'm talking in general not a few specific cards.
Okay... after seeing Grell Philosopher, I'm definitely taking this deck, adding green to it and making Yarok the commander. It's still a horror. 😁
That's what I'm planning on doing after upgrading it a little bit lol or doing the esper horror from the last d&d set
I looove this deck so much. As an additional card, why not get good ol Lazav, Dimir Mastermind since we are already milling a lot.
love it!
For this deck I’d run Shadow Kin instead because it has a similar ability and also makes your opponents mill
@@elioncaplan why not both
Zelix actually goes infinite quite easily with Altar of Dementia, activate Zelix or another form of mill, an opponent mills triggering Zelix to make a 1/1 horror token, sacrifice the token to Altar of Dementia, mill a player 1, triggers Zelix to make a horror, sacrifice the horror to altar….. infinite mill to all opponent
You could go infinite with Altar of the Brood instead of Dementia
@Wooter ...No, he doesn't. You can't just mill cards, you have to mill creature cards to get the token. The cycle breaks the moment you don't hit a creature card to produce a token and considering that you're only milling one card at a time...
On River of Tears: if you've played a land, you HAVE to add black; you don't get to choose. Just good to be aware of. So if you want to be able to choose, wait with playing your land until you know you're going to use the River.
Honestly as soon as I saw Mind Crank, I thought there's absolutely no way I'd play this deck without Duskmantle Guildmage or Bloodchief Ascension. After that I would probably cut the bad horrors for Animate Dead, Scarab God, and Wrexial, the Risen Deep to take advantage of the growing graveyards, then I'd probably cut Reflections of Littjara for Torment of Hailfire and cut some of the durdley cards for better counter/removal like Memory Lapse, Counterspell, Damnation, and Heartless Act.
I'm definitely putting Psychic Corrosion, Sphinx's Tutelage and maybe Drowned Secrets in this deck. Consistent mill and on your turn, so you can take advantage of it with Cap'n.
Also, while Philosopher is a great card, i think the best new card in this deck is Aboleth Spawn. Copying ETBs on flash speed, and protects itself with ward. a lot better than philosopher imo
ok why didn't i see toxrill as a honorable mention you know damn well thats the one horror you always add to you deck plus it even comes with the sluge monster so that nasty combo is in there.
and even worse thing in the ice didn't even get mentioned either thats horror tribal perfection with the cyclonic rift bounce when flipped
After playing both zellix is bar the stronger of the two and it’s not even close. Altar of the brood, altar of dementia, and mesmeric orb all come out extremely early and can nearly win the game on the spot. Also undying at instant speed, makes your board much harder to deal with. You can play impactful artifacts and enchantments early with zellix and hold up mana to counter, draw and kill at instant speed the rest of the game when your engine is up and running. Also you get access to things like ashnods and phyrexian altar and skull clamp.
Iv been haunting edh with Umbris for awhile now and this will be a great addition to my mill collection.
I’m still of the mindset that it’s more horror tribal, with a mill sub theme. The more horrors you create the more wide spread you can mill so your commander can conscript from multiple opponents.
I don’t know about anyone else’s play group, but players that mill opponents too much get a lot of hate.
I keep seeing people going harder on mill, but that’s the easiest way to get knocked out first.
As a modern mill player this is true
Put in Arcane Adaptation
caught herald's horn at the bottom around $3.50/card and now theyre back up to 8 lol
Also, turn 3 play zellix, turn 4 play haunted one and activate zellix. is the only play pattern if you have both.
The Slug horror is a must add. I love him in mine
10:00 -- FYI, you guys have the sums backwards. $48.40 is the sum of the $5+ cards, not the $2+. You had this error in the last upgrade guide, too.
One thing to note about the zellix/haunted one combo is that tokens get +2/0 but they don't come back even with undying because they're tokens. Still not a bad card but it didn't combo with zellix as much as I thought it would
I put strionic resonator in my deck, it doubled up on the commander trigger and really improved the benefits from the mill
“I really wish they would reprint Vedalken”
CZ 2022 Day of Reprint Announcement
Very end of this is the most awesome part! When I first got out of MtG I got into classic video games.
I had a phyrexian obliterator in my binder that I just had to add to my deck. Hard to cast but worth it IN MY OPINION lol.
Def agree with all your cards to take out minus the copy creature spell enchantment. Having more threat on the board is always nice.
Yes, I can’t play this and get much value out of it that turn. But it gets me set up for future plays.
I added “Cut Your Losses” in my precon, and boy was it a massive win combo!
its meh tbh just run bruvac
this deck needs thing in the ice. a horror that bounces all none horrors . amazing
All of the reprint cards in this deck are ones I had on my list for another deck, but was avoiding putting in because they were too expensive.
I have to disagree w/ taking out plague spitter just because it keeps people from chump blocking your horrors
good point.
Works for 1 game until your friends realize they need tokens with more than 1 toughness. Playing this made things considerably more difficult for myself with my group. Was a funny night though the one time I got to actually use it.
What do you guys think about Gyruda? Not a Horror but does mill everyone four cards and you get an even cmc creature on top of what you’d get from your commander’s ability too. Also Trepanation Blade could be a cool include as well.
If you run the backround commander you play out Zelix turn 3, he has summoning sickess so you can't tap him yet but at turn 4 assuming you haven't missed a land drop you pay 3 for the backround and use your extra land to activate Zelix.
God, I am super envious of Murph's setup. That is quite the library of game consoles!
turn 3 into turn four assuming you did nothing for 2 other turns but play land. tap three mana, play your Zilix, sanity flayer. turn four, pllay a land and then play your background, spend your 4 mana to activate zilix to give everything 2/0. would be kinda bad to summon single horror but you got two cards to the field turn 4.
They're not horrors, but Geth and Wrexial are both great ways to take advantage of the cards in your opponents' graveyards
I had to have this deck when i saw it. Played it LOVED it. Have been waiting for this video for suggestions
Vedalken Orrery is getting a reprint in Double Masters
I feel like there are a few more horrors you can add. Seems like horrors in this color have crazy high mana costs.
I am new to commander but I got this precon since it looks so fun. I really like the idea of Agent of Treachery in this deck, you are going to be stealing quite a few cards you don't own and would give you tons of draw when you might otherwise be overextended on the board. You can combo this with cards like Gonti, Lord of Luxury to push the "steal" theme even harder. Any thoughts?
This was perfect. Just finished watching the background episode. Great work as always👍
I personally prefer zellix and haunted one. The triggered ability really lets you go wild with some card interaction. I've come across accidental combos with cards like; Altar of the Brood goes psuedo-infinite with zellix, kindred discovery + Psychic Corrosion goes psuedo-infinite with zellix, and the reliable undying breaks Retribution of the Ancients. Plus, reliable 1 mana mill opens up more cards to become viable. Like brainstorm and expel from orazca. It may not be as strong but i enjoy the deckbuilding more.
Edit: Oh yeah and you can use altar of dementia. BOTH on your tokens to hopefully get more tokens and to sac horrors with ETBs to come back with undying.
12:06 here is the clip
A card I love in this deck as an easy budget add is Eldritch Pact. As you mill people you just pop it and that person dies. Its a 7 mana "kill that player" card. as long as you have been milling
I have this card and never considered that! Interesting way to kill off a player if they've already milled half their deck.
14:00 Vedalken Orrery spoiled for Double Masters 2022, congrats on the future sight guys!
I’m surprised you guys didn’t mention Wonder, from MH and MH2. Super super cheap (less that $1) and the fact it gives your creatures flying as long as it’s in the graveyard is so good. Flying and menace is a great way to get through for damage.
From... Where?!
Man, does your comment make me feel old...
If you can find a good flashback spell or two to go with it then Entomb is also good add with Wonder and those. Also if you play windfall-type card draw to make Psychosis Crawler better you can discard Wonder to those.
Murph wishing for vedalken orrery... Spoilt today for double masters! Let's go!
I would like to correct Murph on something he said. he said "psychosis crawler belongs in wheel decks". I subscribe to the RTCETC logic and will point out that if you wheel with psychosis crawler out, it will die because at some point, (after discarding your hand notably) all hands will be empty and it will be a 0/0 and die, so unless you have some effect that gives it a static +1/+1 it will simply die.
I think it's really cool that people collect these old consoles or have the new versions of them. I myself own a Nintendo Entertainment System mini that has 30 built-in games on it. all the classics of course, super Mario 1, 2 and 3, Zelda 1 and 2 and 25 other games.
It actually doesn’t die! I looked up the ruling before and due to state based actions it only checks it’s power before resolving the spell and then afterwards. I used to think the same
@@UntappedBlue oh ok. so the spell has to resolve first before anything triggers, I see, ok then, it doesn't die.
Plague Spitter seemed bad at first but looks like a great way to reliably mill your opponents a single guaranteed shot every turn, and again when he dies. Even if its at the cost of pinging your own stuff.
Bruvac and Maddening Cacophony is a sweet combo
Honestly you can get rid of a few cards and add some rogues to the brew, like half horrors and half rogues that do a splendid mill job. You may also add some reanimation spells and not having only your commander do the job: reanimate, animate dead, etc. and get additional support to loot your own big creatures and put them in play early via this way. Also add a Duskmantle Guildmage just because it fits perfect and a lazav dimir mastermind.
while I do understand why douthy horror and brain stealer dragon were cut from this deck. I think that it is also important to be mindful that this deck does not have ways to produce unblockable creatures out of the box. in my experience there will be cases where you are facing down a large board from your opponent and you need an unblockable creature. cards like wonder, aether tunnel, cloak of mists, and aqueos form, while enchant to other creatures, can most certenly help the deck with trying to get over bigger boards to mill some cards. brain stealer dragon and douthy horror are especially good because brain stealer dragon is a flyer that can swing for big damage uncontested, and the same goes for douthy horror. i would striongly suggest keeping these in on the soul princible that the deck will eventually need cards that are unblockable.
Exactly what I needed for this! Thanks guys!
I'm okay with all the cuts, but not reflections of littjara. That cards destroyed the table for turns for us. Very usefull.
Thing in the Ice. Need it bby.
Just got this deck. It is so fun.
Ooooo The “Dusk Mangler” in a “Yarok” deck 😮
Get some clones in your Deck such as Sakashima or Spark Double to copy your Commander. This means your mill triggers twice but you also get to reanimate twice at end of turn
or just add Strionic Resonator.
I played Grell Philosopher in my Umbris deck and none of my opponents ever had an artifact with an activated ability! Didn't help that I exiled all three Sol Rings with Umbris triggers, but still!
I picked this one up it’s my favorite 🔥
Same here :)
you know i always see those boxes of cards in the back especially that collectors box just sitting there you could hook a brother up
Picked this one up! Love this deck. I did add a few more mill cards.
Also, notice that vedalken orarie gives "nonland permanents" flash, and leyline of anticipation give "spells" flash, meaning that it also gives your sorceries flash.
It is "nonland CARDS" not permanents.
@@psy_p ok yep, I did read it wrong. Thanks :)
I guess I'm building N'gathrod very different because I was bemoaning about how he was neutering my deck with those cuts.
Yeah i kinda agree. definitely think plague spitter and dragon are bad cuts. plague spitter helps clear the way of dorks and tokens while being an attacker the turn captain comes down and dragon is a way to close out games in the end while being on theme. their explanations makes enough sense but I think the minor downsides are worth what those two cards bring to the table. not to mention good horrors are slim pickings
@@ericheidgerd1064 I agree with you. But I also thought that cutting ROL and Nihilith aren't good cuts, I explain why in my comment.
Turn 3 Zellix turn 4 Haunted one, and than with the other mana tap Zellix to get a 1/1 horror to start attacking the next turn
Plague Spitter is amazing though! Drain the whole table and kill enemies' tokens! It hurts your opponents far more than you (unless you're playing zellix).
I won a game last week where I dropped Plague Spitter and then played Endless Evil on it and drained the whole table to death with copies of plague Spitter!
wouldn't your original plague spitter die when the 1/1 token kills itself and deals another point of damage when it dies?
Sad they didn’t talk about my new favorite card, Aboleth spawn
"No uncommon should be more than a couple bucks"
"Tell that to lightning greaves"
TELL THAT TO PITILESS PLUNDERER!!!
Force of will....
that was the first thing that went through my head
Oh man I have been waiting for this video!
Can't wait for the goad changes! Dragons descent
Goad changes? Can you elaborate?
@@ryansprenkle6356 card swaps for the goad deck is my guess
Ohhhh. I thought they meant there was a rules change coming. I see now.
Great Episode! Seriously those were some good edits but I have to disagree with that Nihilith cut, with the amount of mill you now have in your new upgraded deck you will pretty much be paying 1B for a 4/4 with fear which earlier when talking about Cover of darkness you said is "pretty much unblockable to at least one half of the board" so I figured that an unblockable 4/4 horror would be pretty good in a deck that is based around big horrors connecting right? Edit: Also considering almost every creature in the deck is a horror then I would think its pretty good. Second Edit LOL: TheRoonage talked about how Brainstealer is actually really good because every card you steal with CN will actually ping your opponents (If your stealing big stuff which you should be doing then you are pinging LOTS of damage)
yeah, they seem miss out point that brainstealer last ability works on your commander. Also, mindcrank is true 2nd commander of this deck.
"Formative" was the word you were looking for, Jimmy.
I really love this deck concept
the first thing i thought to put in was spark double but that card is no longer close to budget xD
Oof hopefully Wizards doesn't get a call from the Mouse. The mindflayer on that box looks way too much like Davey Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean
10:00
Hold on. There are SEVEN cards that are $5+? And their total value is $26.70? 5*7 = 35, right?
For the $2 cards, I'm sure that's fine. The numbers add up her, funnily enough. (take away the $5+ cards and we're left with about $20 and about 10 cards).
It just doesn't make sense to me, is all.
In a game against my husband, I combined consuming aberration with mindcrank, reflections of littjara, and captain n'gathrod to completely mill his entire deck and kill him in two turns. The consuming aberration was copied by the littjara enchantment and there was already like 20 cards in his graveyard - i attacked with the original and copy for around 40 damage (give or take). This triggered mindcrank and captain ngathrod to mill the rest of his deck down to zero. I killed him the next round when he had no cards left and almost zero life. Fun times.
Does anyone know if Jimmy has a video on Marchesa? I hear him mention her alot alot and I'm super curious as to his deck list for her.
Five years ago I would snap click these kind of videos but nowadays my playstyle is more like "lower power, higher cost"
You got what you wished for! Vedalken Orrery coming to double masters 2022
I knew I had to cut some, but EIGHT horrors? I guess if you want to play a Captain Nag deck that makes sense. Then mill is better. I am going to try to keep mine a horror deck however. (yea plaguespitter and the dross guy are still out for me).
Mind flayer the shadow was my first thought the secret lair horror it does everything the commander wants stealing your opponents permanents and it’s a 9/9 so you can easily make it a creature
That video game collection is NUTS
How about Mind Funeral or Mind Grind? Funeral mills until until 4 lands are revealed and Grind has the same effect except it's an X ability.
Duskmantle guildmate is a good pick here isnt it? with mindcrank in play you loop your opponents to death if you mill a card.
Glimpse the Unthinkable, Avirnox, Altar of Dementia
Great budget builds! Great watch
Best black market mana I got was 3069 from a infinite tokens combo where they stooped then I used in garruks wake to boardwipe it all
Also can spellskite be used to redirect spell an opponent casts on thier own creature onto therefor strengthening it
You forgot to mention adding Thing in the Ice. Definitely a nice board removal in my opinion. Brainstealer Dragon is definitely a plus.
The first horror that came in mind was Thing in the ice, but considering that we would control opponents' creatures, it would return them to their hands, since we wouldn't own them. I still don't know if Thing in the ice keeps being good despite of that.
Maybe with Arcane adaptation