Why the Death Star 2 Could Have Been Legitimately Invincible
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*Emperor:* Ok so I'm just going to ask this once. Will there be some open thermal exhaust port on this 2nd Death Star? I don't want it blown up again by some f-ing lucky torpedo.
*Technician:* No my Lord. This time we make it so large, that you can fly a spaceship through it.
*Emperor:* Excellent...wait what?!
HISHE
Actually, both death stars are quite fragile. My cat was able to destroy not one, but *two* very expensive Lego Death Star sets using the power of "Stop ignoring me".
Practically invinc- *(TITLE CARD)*
Yeah, practically!!
The thermal exhaust port was probably only as large as Erso could get away with making it without raising red flags during actual construction. He was doing the best that he could given that he was effectively a slave. I'm sure he would have made it larger and less well-defended if he had been able to do so. Thus, Luke's use of the Force is still relevant, because, as we saw, even the pilots were skeptical that they could hit it, and the attempt using a targeting computer *did* fail. The bigger problem caused by Disney and Rian Johnson is the "Holdo Maneuver". Hyperspace ramming something that large (and neatly spherical) *should* have been easily possible and not a million-to-one gamble. Which means that the Rebels should have just been able to sacrifice an old ship piloted by droids and achieved the same result.
Agreed
I love how in Legends they hinted at the Vong were coming and the Emperor seemed to be rushed into taking out the Rebellion swiftly at this time.
He should’ve taken his own advice when he first arrived on the station when he told Vader to be patient about Luke
could the completed Death Star ii have defeated the Vong
@@orangecitrus8056 Very easily. The Vong would have had no defense against such a weapon.
You said that the DS1 wasn't capable of targeting smaller targets in Legends, but as far as I'm aware, it's different in Canon. As heard from Hurst Romodi in Rogue One: "Shall I begin targeting their fleet?", and Tarkin responds: "Lord Vader will handle the fleet. Target the base at Scarif, single reactor ignition"
I don't remember that conversation from Rogue One... but it's been a while since I last saw it, so that may be why. Anyway, the first Death Star could (and did) hit smaller targets pre-Disney. In the novel "Death Star" the Rebels find the construction site a few days before Alderaan (and therefore before they have the plans) and send a reconditioned Trade Federation Lucrehulk Battleship (3k in diameter) full of fighters after it. Tarkin orders it destroyed with the superlaser (which is currently only at about 5% power), and the shot utterly obliterates the battleship, leaving just the hundreds of fighters it had already launched. The Death Star's TIE Fighters (all 1000 of them, not just the dozen or so we see in A New Hope) are then sent out to finish them off.
I find it hard to believe that the DS1 would be INCAPABLE of targeting smaller targets but if it had a recharge time of 24 standard hours, there’d be a limited amount of combat scenarios where it would make a real difference discharging its superlaser. Because of this I’m sure the weapons engineers didn’t spend a whole lot of time or resources optimizing the Superlaser for that sort of use.
@@hisdrizlnes The 24-hour recharge was to go from being able to destroy one planet to being able to destroy the next. It could fire at 1% power a lot more frequently than once a day... I'd have to check the novel to see how frequently though
@@ZoeMalDoran you are saying tgat like lucrehulks are small ships. Those things are MASSIVE! Far bigger than your average star destroyer. There is a reason why one ship alone was enough to subdue naboo.
@@miniaturejayhawk8702 The video implies that the Death Star 1 couldn't target capital ships of any size pre-Disney, which is wrong. I am well aware that the Lucrehulk masses as much as at least 6 Imperial Star Destroyers, but that's what they used the superlaser on in the book... then the prison planet Despayre (took three shots to completely obliterate that because they hadn't gotten it up to maximum power), then finally Alderaan at full power, and about to be Yavin IV, but we know how that turned out ;)
I like the idea that Disney went with with rogue one, putting an intentional destructive weak spot so that the death Star can be destroyed and the rebels can be given hope! Because it shows that even when tyranny and darkness reigns their is still good people willing to fight that darkness when if they had to do it living a lie with the Empire
I agree but I like to think that even though the flaw was there it was a shot that only Luke using the force could pull off fast enough. Otherwise the defences of the DS1 or the fighters with Vader would have put a stop to them.
I like that idea too. Though A New Hope gave the Rebels a bit of ingenuity with “we looked over these stolen plans with a fine toothed comb and found this one weak spot we think might work”.
Were there any safety rails? (Family Guy joke)
lol dude was brought back to life to work more 😂
Yeah that’s some Tartarus-level punishment right there.
Amazon warehouse worker type shit
*on death bed*
"I'm finally... free"
Government: "Nah you're coming back to life, go back to working"
*gets revived and is now forced to pay taxes again*
No benefits for him lol
Emperor: constantly searching for ways to achieve immortality
Also the emperor: keeps bringing some rando engineer back to life
For me the intended weak spot doesn't take away from lukes force shot. It was already a discovered weakspot in ANH, so LucasCanon. If anything you can say the way the weakspot was designed by Erso was mediocre at best since you needed one of the most powerful force sensitives to mkae use of it.
Non the less for me Rogue One is by far the best Disney SW Movie despite deep fake v0.5. The space battle was the bomb and the characters were really good.
I could not say it better myself. The weakness is just a jump in logic but regardless of the intention like you said ANH shows that the Achilles Heel is so tiny that for all intents and purposes it cannot be hit by even the best possible pilots only space magic from a dead wizard cult can accomplish this feat.
Also 100% agree Rogue one is by far the best movie to come out of Disney SW so far.
Luke shooting the pink missiles through the exhaust port is due to the corrdination of him, the force mainly calculating everything and Kenobi's greenlight saying "now" frame perfect it was.
Plus the force itself moves at incredible speeds.
I wonder if lightsaber blade itself can deflect a turbolaser shot or the Death star 2 biggest laser?
Excellent work as always my friend. Keep it up!
This is extremely impressive. Very. Thanks for this. This is very interesting. Palpatine's arrogance is his weakness😊I think it's good exhaust port was a construction flaw. May the Force be with you too😊
I like the explanation for the exhaust port given in the Death Star novel, and the Department of Redundancy Department.
It’s because it kept competing and getting stronger.
Bro i just wanna say i love you man. Ive been following you for so many years. First videos i watched that stood out to me was your sith lore vids many years back. I hope we meet one day. You a Fuckin GOAT! YOU HEAR ME!? GOAT!! 💪🏾🦾🗣️☄️🌌 PS. awesome vid!! 😌
Back away simp
Ty for talking about Lemelisk. Seems like nobody knows about him. Him being tortured by flesh eating beetles in I forget which book after the destruction of the first Death Star left a morbid stain on my young mind lol
I'm more impressed that the empire managed to complete the second death star in just YEARS. Instead of almost two decades, and it was bigger too
Rogue One didn't change the exhaust port per se - they just said that Galen Erso engineered a flaw in the reactor system. Even before Disney, the Rebels at Yavin knew about a small weak spot that would set off a chain reaction, and Luke still needed the Force to hit it. Whether the weakness was because of Galen Erso deliberately designing a flawed reactor, or the Wookiee slaves building a redundant exhaust port before one of the architects got it taken off the plans, is largely immaterial.
I like the idea that it was both. Urso making the flaw, and Luke being able to use the Force to hit it. Because even if it was intentional or not, Luke still had to make that shot in the first place
Imagine if the Separatist Alliance still had the plans of the
first Death Star and still had hold of it. While being protected.
If the Early Empire wouldn't had used Bio chemical weapons against the Billions of Geonosians while killing almost all of them off.
It would of had turned out differently. Though if you didn't know, expect 1 Geonosian survived and the 1 Geonosian Queen egg survived.
For many years since the New Republic It's been rumored that their have been many Geonosian eggs that survived. That they would have a new hive. Throughout the years, decades, and centuries.
The New Republic knew about the Separatist from the Clone War, and Clone wars and the Separatist of the later years after the Republic been transformed to the Empire and during.
To add on their is 3 Death stars
Theirs the Prototype Death Star,
Death Star I, and Death Star II.
To add a bonus
In one Starwars Legends in one of the comics, that the late Empire started the constuction of Starkiller base.
I personally like the Rogue One explanation for the exhaust port. The Emperor's hubris led to the destruction of the Death Star 2. If he had given false info to allow for the Death Star 2's completion, it may have been impenetrable.
Each time he refers to the Death Star as DS 1 or 2 I get momentarily confused, and excited, because my brain immediately thinks we're somehow pivoting into Dark Souls lore.
Personally I like that Disney added the thermal exhaust port was a weakness that was placed there. It gives more credit to the fact that it was a major plot device that the Rebels needed to attack with all available starships they had. It doesn’t diminish Luke’s efforts for blowing up the DS1. Honestly because like the end of the movie of Rogue One where Captain Antilles ask Leia what were the plans. She basically said one word “hope”. That despite everything has transpired and how much the Empire was choking the life out of the galaxy. There will be those who standup and resist and show signs of hope that a large juggernaut like the empire can be overthrown with a little hope to guide the way.
I don’t think the Disney change or diminish Luke’s accomplishment (I know right saying a Disney change didn’t really make anything worse crazy right) cause regardless of if it was an intentional design flaw that could be exploited by the rebels or it was the logical placement of something like that at the end of the day you gotta hit your shots kid
Agreed. I like Rogue One's sabotage plot because it also explains how a weakness like that could be found in such a short time after acquiring the plans despite the INSANE amount of schematics a huge thing like the Death Star would have for you to look through. It also shows that it wasn't JUST a Force novice fresh off the farms that defeated the Death Star. The rebellion itself set him up to win and makes them feel relevant.
Finally, as my own head-canon, I like to imagine Galen was expecting someone to shoot into the hole from above and the torpedoes don't need to go all the way down to the reactor to begin the chain reaction. But the Rebels decided to use the trench and attack from a 90 degree approach because it was a safer way to get to the target. As a result, they were doomed to fail because despite anyone being capable of starting the reaction, they weren't shooting from the expected angle. But they got lucky and had Luke who used the Force to sink the shot even from that bad angle.
That's how I always saw it 😅
@@Kurayamiblack Yeah the hero doesn't need to have ALL the answers. Luke may have been the Rebellion's grand champion but he had a lot of help.
Great stuff ❤
Man when I first learned of the star forges in kotor I was blown away by them factories pumping out Star destroyers
What a coincidence I was reading about the Death Star II yesterday, but it's much better hear you talk about it in far more detail. I had no idea it was over 900km, I think it makes much morse sense for what Palpatine wanted.
Great work as always. Curious why you like Disney’s addition? Feels like it cheapens what Luke did a bit.
It doesn't at all. It was a weak spot in the least ideal position that literally required the use of the force. Doesn't take anything away from Luke. He still made an incredible, impossible shot by trusting in the force.
@@RAWDEAL064 It isn't an impossible shot though. Han Solo could have destroyed the Death Star. According to the change, the vent was designed for someone to be able to destroy it.
Making it a set up shot anyone should have been able to do.
Either the first guy was a bad shot, or the computer failed.
Luke was just a good shot now.
It is no longer incredible. He used to bullseye womp rats in his T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters.
The importance of that moment for Luke and his relationship with the Force is reduced vs It was impossible without his using the Force. Changing Luke forever.
I like canon narrative here with Galen Erso. Even given that the heat exhaust was a secret intentional flaw, it could still reasonably be a “one in a million” shot that was pulled off by Luke and his connection to the Force. I don’t remember Erso saying it would be an easy hit, he was just clear it would destroy the whole station.
I can see potential continuity between the Erso Narrative and the other scientist guy you talked about. The one Sidious killed over and over. Can’t remember his name. I think it’d be cool if you put the names of the characters in text when you mention them for the first time. Plus then I’ll know how to spell them haha
I think the Empire would have defeated the Yuuzhan Vong with a completed DS2. Thoughts?
DS2 still didnt make radiation shielding for the superlaser crew...
I actually like the addition of an intentional design flaw. It was an opening left by George in episode 4. "We've discovered a weakness... many botan spies died to bring is this information. " mon matma said.
They never go into how it was discovered.
Galen Erso was under constant supervision, so any weakness would've had to be small enough to go unnoticed.
I believe "Rogue One" and the story it tells is a healthy addition to Star Wars.
And IMO it takes nothing away from Luke at all. He still had to trust in the Force to hit a target noone else could.
Lucas left some openings in his stories intentionally for this very reason.
The real issue with the second Death Star was how much in funding it would take to build.
The first one? Massive costs on money and resources, AND it was largely built in secret, nearly taking twenty years, and lacked safety rails. 😅
This one? Even bigger, more room for weapons and fleets, and more advanced superlaser technology. The second Death Star was started in construction shortly after the destruction of the first Death Star, as well, was it not? How was Sheev gonna talk his way out of this one..?
Palpatine: I want to build a Death Star-- and the rebels are going to pay for it!!
I love the "Competed Death Star 2" its simply the product of the final imperial design competition
Not only does the Disney reimagining detract from Luke’s accomplishments, it also hamstrings the entire ingenuity of the Rebel Alliance as a whole.
The Rebels got the plans (originally from Kyle, I digress) then they had to comb over the specs to find any flaw. Then they had to find a way to exploit any flaws they found. Then they needed to have skilled enough soldiers to execute any plans against those flaws.
This series of events made the Rebels Strong. Smart. Resilient. Courageous. A fully functioning machine in which all cogs are turning together for a singular goal.
In Rogue 1…they make the rebellion look lucky, not deft.
((Before I get roasted, I know Rogue 1 is good, and I appreciated it as a great movie. I just didn’t like how it did no justice to the resiliency of a unified resistance.))
I agree, the old EU did it better. It also showed the arrogance of The Empire, thinking that nothing could possibly hit something that small or get past their defenses to do so.
The intended flaw doesn't detract from Luke's skill as it's tied neatly to Rogue One's mission and Sol's death. It would have been great to see an animated version of DS2 (triple power) in action, though, if it hadn't been destroyed but with a twist that it wasn't destroyed but it was hijacked & stolen by the rebels & became an additional moon for Tatouine or Coruscant.
I think that the DS1 port weakness can definitely be intentional and an amazing feat by Luke aided by the force and not just one or the other. A good analogy i think is that shooting a 3pt shot in basketball is a hard shot and takes much practice to do reliably although still very doable by anyone who puts in the time to develop the skill but there is a massive difference between making that shot alone on a goal in your driveway and making that shot in an NBA game with some of the best players trying to stop you. Just because something is possible doesn't mean that is easy
Cant wait for episode 2 of stupendous theory!
The emperor should have waited until the station was complete to lure the rebels in to use it on them.
I think I tuned out for a while at 0:45 contemplating "several orders of magnitude larger". It's actually ~5x larger, not even one order of magnitude.
5x5x5 = 125x larger (volume). So yes, two orders of magnitude, as in a few orders, but not several.
I think of the DS1 weakness as both Design and The Force
Erso tried to make it as small as possible but just large enough to still be targetable by computers. However he wasn't quite able to get it large enough for most targeting systems and hoped that there would be a system out there capable of doing it
Unfortunately there just wasn't a computer up to snuff for it and that's where Luke and The Force jump in to save the day
I think Galen wanted a flaw that wasn’t too obvious and hoped that someone could make the one-in-a-million chance shot
Now we need to compare this to Starkiller base
UlTiMaTe PoWaAaAaAaAa
My take away from this video is the sequels planet death star was stupid, they should have just made the death star 2 again
Or learned from mistakes of the past. As much as it gets dragged, Episode 9 was far smarter with “let’s take that superlaser technology and put it on a star destroyer, then build a fleet of them”. That makes a whole lot more sense than dumping all of your resources into one singular super-weapon that has proven to be a vulnerable concept.
The starkiller base is less of a Death Star and more of a land based weapon that happens to have similar capabilities as the Death Star. Sort of like the Malicore superwepon
@@SawdustMusic-rd8mj still at the heart of it, Starkiller Base is no different than the Death Stars: a megaproject super weapon that ate up an inordinately large percentage of personnel and resources.
It actually mad sense to change the weakness to intentional especially compared to all the other things Disney decided needed an explanation
I wonder if the shield projected from endor was eventually supposed to be an integrated component. Also I think two things can be true at once. It seems as though it was very difficult to obtain the plans as seen in the story from Rouge One and also to engineer the flaw in construction. It may be that the exhaust port on ds1 was intentional but also all the saboture engineers could muster without drawing attention to it allowing the flaw to be overlooked and constructed in the final design. No man is an island after all and though Luke was forced sensitive to the max he was not even close to fully trained by the end of A New Hope. The whole Jedi order couldn't end the clone wars on their own and failed to forsee the rise of the Empire. It took many people and resources to allow Luke to accomplish the destruction of ds1 where as it took a fully trained Luke and the assistance of the enlightened Vader to over throw the emperor and the assistance of his highly capable friends along with the entire rebellion on endor and in space to destroy ds2 even in its incomplete state. Had they failed to infiltrate endor and bring down the shield, even if Luke succeeded on the station, th ds2 would have been completed, the rebellion devastated, and the empire would have remained the dominant ruling power in the galaxy for the foreseeable future.
Could it withstand a hit from a ship at light speed
That's a great question
A reference from the last Jedi.
I honestly thought it would be exactly the same as the first but hey you learn something new everyday something Palpatine unfortunately failed to do, like Luke said "Your over confidence is your weakness"
Clearly the 2nd Death Star was built for WORST case scenarios.. like... if the Rebellion sicked an secret armada on it... of Dreadnoughts... which think itd taken about the WHOLE Galaxy, together, at the same time, to even have a small chance of beating the DS2 in open traditional battle... an wonder if thats being generous..
Also came to mind, what was Palpatine's "Plan B" IF the Rebels DIDN'T take the bait and attack the DS2 the way they did to allow the movie we got??? My assumption is, just finish the station an unleash Hell BUT knowing Palpatine, he probably wouldnt be content an let the Rebellion die THAT quick an easily. Being Evil Psychopath that Actually seemed to enjoy giving enemies EVERY chance to deliberately destroy that right in front of them before.. if they lucky... granting them a quick end too
Why did this make me think of the short comic of Darth Vader using the force on a storm trooper only for the trooper to say something that causes Vader to immediately stop using the force and say "What?" with the trooper replying "What?" then Vader walks away confused.
It was a much better weapon than Star killer base 🙄, think about when it drains its sun , what happens to the planet ?! What if the target was anywhere but where the cannon was pointed! So ridiculous! Great video Stupendous 🌊
i knew it was bigger but that scale bigger is crazy
The Death Star 3 would have been even more powerful, as it would have had gravity well generators. Aka, it would have been able to stop ships from entering hyperspace. "No one enters, no one leaves" the combat zone.
I think I agree with both, from legends and canon.
It is funny how in starwars those women are portraited as Human women, when in fact they are Aliens with supernatural abilities... leia is not human, she is from another planet and so was her mother padme, padme was a insect queen an invasive psychic species that invaded naboo and forced the gungangs to hide underwater, that is why they were so peaceful and the dresses of the queen so Extravagant... she was an insect queen and those people where mere puppets that died for her, she was the colony a mere one being that psychically controlled everyone, the only one that could escape her grasp was Palpatine... she manipulated anakin and make him fall in love with her to the point of him breaking his jedi vows to marry and have her, all she wanted was the seed of the chosen one to have the ultimate power and conquer and control the whole universe, if it wasn't for palpatine she would have succeeded.
What is palpatines favorite food to eat?
FLOUR, UNLIMITED FLOUR!
Anakins tears
lucky stars
Power food unlimited power food:)
The superlaser was the greatest improvement.
Once again super detailed videos from The SW 🫡
Thanks again!
As far as the DS1 exhaust port being an intentional flaw and Luke only making that shot by using the Force, I like to believe that Galen Erso knew if he made it too obvious of a flaw that he’d have been found out. It had to be a small target so that no one would suspect anything. That being said, it was still a really hard target to hit, so Luke using the Force definitely mattered. Both points are valid IMO
plus instead of flying the trench and have the proton torpedoes do a 90 degree turn. why not just fly strait in so your looking into the exhaust port. the torpedoes just go in a straight line
I'm going to kind of call out that last bit; completed, it would have been invincible. Maybe, but the Emperor has also gone on record saying he didn't want to rule an empire of corpses. If the Rebels couldn't have destroyed the DS2 completed, then they weren't going to just sit there, and get picked off. They would have dispersed, and integrated themselves more throughout the populace; a populace already now a but worried that their ruler needed a planet buster weapon to rule, and then built a second, when the first was lost. The Death Star was a great terror weapon, but that's sort of the point; from a Tarkin perspective, it works, as the fear of knowing your world can, and might, be erased, was massive. You, your family, your species, your industry, history, the place where you believe your Gods once walked, and everything else that makes you you, could be destroyed, but really how often could the Emperor afford to use it, before the losses were too massive to deal with? Why didn't the doddering Republic let the Separatists go? Because those worlds, and people, were too valuable, even if they believed something else, and Palpatine couldn't just pop worlds, anymore than he wanted Vader popping his officers, even though the Emperor KNEW they were inept, and corrupt; that's why they got their jobs. Fear was powerful, and maybe one, or two Alderaans could be afforded, and it might be niceto pretend that this Rebellion wouldn't do like IRL terrorists, and use the civilians as disposable shields, but I feel that's part if why the Emperor DIDN'T just hide the DS2, and wait till it was finished; he knew that a work on progress, which was vulnerable, would attract most of the Rebellion, hoping to get rid of it, but a completed station would cause them to "go Sith", and reinvent themselves, causing a necessity of WAY TOO MUCH collateral damage. Had it been finished, he would have had to use it, and that just wasn't convenient to maintaining an empire to rule.
Even if it was a weakness it was near impossible to pull of the shoot part from Luke
The Empire would have won if “an entire Legion of [The Emperor’s] Best Troops didn’t fall prey to Teddy Bears.
Would’ve made more sense on Kashyyk with the Wookiees but I’m happy with their scene in ROTS:)
Palpatine really should have waited until DS2 was complete, it's not guaranteed it would have changed anything but 2 points
1. DS2's insides wouldn't have been hanging out
2. Luke would've been with them in DS2 anyway so no force assisted aimbot😂
I agree that it would be completely impossible to destroy the DS2 from the outside, had it been finished, with anything the rebels could throw at it. But... there are things and beings out there that could have easily obliterated it, should the empire expand into their territory, or vice versa. Also, no it wasn't a good decision by Disney to change what they did. I don't consider anything Disney makes or changes to be cannon, only those who actually understand the Star Wars universe.
I’ll take most if not all of Andor as canon. It’s just so friggin’ good.
It might have been invincible if Gayland hadn't put in that flaw.
The shot was imposible, but nothing is imposible For the Will of the Force... as Vader said...
Two things can be true at once. Erso could have put the flaw in on purpose And Luke could have been the only one as it turned out that could have made the shot. Meaning if not for Luke coming along, Erso's flaw would have turned out to be not flawed enough.
I think I prefer it being an accidental weakness. It shows the monumental arrogance and hubris of the Empire far better.
Yes, be a fan of a retcon that cheapens Luke's one in a million shot. Changing it to something that he pulled off thanks to an Imperial with a conscience and his girl boss daughter.
Well Palp didn’t understand the concept “quantity has a quality all of its own” Joseph Stalin
The first Death Star was like the Titanic
It would just simply need another super weapon of a similar strength to one shot it.
I think it is easy enough to believe both sides to still be true, the port was put there intentionally, and Luke was the only one who could make the shot (proved by the other guy's computer missing his shot)
Emperor: I'm hungry. Please order pizza.
Darth Vader: How many?
Emperor: Order 66
While I do like the rogue one movie, the death star legends novel explanation for the thermal exhaust port existence is a little better (to me) being the will of the force In the novel, an architect tried to have the port removed has unnecessary since it was next to the main exhaust port but the worker that was ordered to do the work came down sick (i.e the force intervened) and when he was better work had moved past the port.
My favorite improvement has to be the super laser, with its precision power and accuracy. I also liked the addition of Disney since it was stated that a lot of forced/slave labor was used for its construction, did no one think someone wouldn’t intentionally put in a weakness? There was probably a ton of problems with the first one but I’m confused why they had to do a trench ran for it, wouldn’t flying down towards the hole made the shot easier?
I didn't think the ds2 laser had quicker recharge. I thought it was just that it had a lower power mode, and since the power was lower it would not take as long to charge up.
Agree the best change "Disney" (i hate giving them credit just because they owned the production and paid the writers & director of Rogue1) has probably madeto SW lore, it serves the narrative better along with a couple other small changes or add-ons Rogue1 made to in-universe lore.
and NO i do not believe that it detracts from Luke using the force at all. btw it was a combination of his skill, the force itself, and the fucking hard work & sacrifices of the rebels who stole the plans & created the weakness in it. if anything that just shows that the Force's ability to weave through peoples lives & events to make things happen and that moment in ANH when Luke fires into thermal exhaust port is MORE the Force flowing through him then it was HIM "using" or directing the force according to his characters egotistical will. so that would be a pretty lame and stupid argument to make. IMO but i still love everyone here who genuinely loves SW no matter what your opinions or incorrect ideas & arguments are. lol MTFBWY!
I think Luke needed the force even with it being an intentional weakness, Urso had to make it small enough to not draw attention to the weakness!
"a flaw so small that they will never find it"
It took the Empire 20 years to build the DS 1 with 160 km in diameter, but only about 4 years to almost complete the DS 2 with 900 km in diameter?! Nah, not buying these numbers.
First Death Star was hiden from politics so they dont get reason to rebel. If i remember corectly in movie Vader talks abaut Palpatin canceling senat. But still its a bit too fast.
When you have a galactic empire of unpaid interns to draw from, anything is possible.
Plus R & D time experimentation and well funding.
But once they finished the DS1 they had all the tech figured out all its limitations and knew what will be needed.
Didn’t the ds1 have a lot of recreation, restaurants, and retail shops too I read that somewhere I could be wrong.
Invincible until it crashes into the sun.
I think it does detract from Luke's accomplishment, but not by a significant amount.
Cannot be invincible if it couldn’t even have been completed.
How did they know about the exhaust port? Any evidence that it was exploited would have been destroyed.
How did the Falcon and a couple of X-wing fighters reach the main reactor at the heart of DS2 in minutes? They would have had to fly over 250 miles.
And then the galaxy gun was invented😅
Now THATS Pod Racing!
Luke using the force to blow up the Death Star is how it should have stayed.
With all properties these days they change way to much instead of leaving the history and lore as it should be.
I don't think DS-1 needed 24 hours to recharge. In R1, Tarkin was asked if they should begin targeting the Rebel fleet.
I wonder what if the rebels never found out about the second Death Star like in return of the Jedi and the empire managed to finally finish building it. What chance would the rebels have then of wining
I wish, the creators would do some more math.
With over 900km in diameter, the surface of the 2nd death star is around 2.5 million km². That's more than 1/4 of the US. Just 100k weapons stations is nothing on that thing. That's 1 every 5 km.
Also just over a million people is nothing, especially because it has multiple levels. You could have 50 million people there, and it still would be very empty in most places.
The space would be hundreds of times all the space in the buildings of New York City. The highest towers in NYC have 100 - 200 levels, and house thousands of people. This death star has 500, and the first is over 3.000 times the area of NYC, over 2.5 million km². Even if you have a lot of space and a "small" crew, you still should end up with 100 times the people in NYC, and it would be very empty.
So tens of million to a few 100 million people, maybe even more, and, for sure, even more droids, that would be way more realistic for a 900km deathstar. Even with just 1 level, it would be a few ten million people.
Like I said, 2.5 million km² surface area, and yes, it gets smaller, the deeper you are, but deep down, where it's f.e. just 300 km diameter, it's still over 280k km² for this level, so like Nevada. 1.5 times Florida. 400 times NYC.
and all levels combined would offer multiple times more space than the surface of the earth, if it's 500 levels.
Even if we look at the first death star: 160 km diameter would mean 80k km² surface. So around half of Florida or over 100x NYC.
So it also didn't have a lot of weapons, and the space inside, if it would have just 50 levels, still would be like a medium sized country. Here a few 100k people as crew isn't that bad, but more realistic would be 5+ and droids, and then it still would be very empty.
It's something, star wars does very often: the bigger the weapon, the more unrealistic the amount of weapon stations and crew is, in the sense, that it's not enough.
They double the length and wingspan of a star destroyer, and double the weapons and crew, but you would have multiple times the surface and volume.
The Executor just has 5 times the max crew of a imperium class 1 star destroyer, but at least 500 times the space. It has 40 times the weapons, but over 200 times the surface.
So Star Wars does the upscaling wrong, and I wish, they would do a bit better. Yes, a crew of 100 million on a death star sounds like a lot, but it's nothing, if it's 900 km in diameter, so either make it smaller, like 100 km diameter, 50 levels and 1 - 2 million as crew, which also wouldn't be that much, with this size, or make the crew bigger.
With not even 2 million people on the deathstar, you would, in average, have to walk for weeks, until you would meet someone. Especially, because it's corridors, not open area. It would be billions of km of corridors. Not millions, billions.
Like I said, you have to do the math, and it's not hard, and then you see, the numbers are odd, and there is this huge problem with upscaling, and the people behind Star Wars clearly struggle with imagining, how massive the structures really are, they create for the universe, and what that really would mean 🤷♂️
Honestly, it might’ve taken a crew that “small” to actually operate it, but included massive amounts of space to move entire legions if need be. Just like military ships on earth, just because the Death Star CAN have a crew of 100 million doesn’t mean they would put that large of a crew on board if the station didn’t require a crew that large. Then you’d have potentially millions of personnel doing nothing when they could be assigned elsewhere.
Though you have a good argument when you look at the intended operation. Both Death Stars were supposed to be able to operate at battle readiness 24/7. So if 1 million were required to operate the station at any given moment, you’d need 3-4 shifts of personnel to keep it operating at peak efficiency for extended periods. Meaning if you expected all the manned turbolaser batteries to be manned for several days straight, you’d have to include 3-4 times the number of gunners. So at bare minimum the Death Star would have to have 3.6-4.8 million crew if 1.2 million (looking at Legends figures because I’m not taking the time to separate and add up canon figures) was required to operate it for an hour. Looking at the numbers that way, the stated 1.2 million crew implies it only takes 300,000-400,000 to operate it at any given moment. That figure is far too small to be realistic, that’s more like skeleton crew figures even with a large compliment of droids.
But I ultimately do agree with you, and certainly agree that there simply wasn’t enough weapon emplacements on either of them. Yeah, they’re both intended to be protected by a fleet of warships, but something that large would be difficult to adequately defend without it being able to defend itself appropriately.
Hello there!
I do not think “several orders of magnitude larger” means what you think it means.
What about the IG-88 brain??
I was wondering why you guys dont have discord for fans anyone knows?
Personally, I think the entire idea is a boondoggle. Now of course it makes for a great and fun film, but practically speaking you can wipe out a planet with far fewer resources. The mass drivers used against the Narn in Babylon 5 for example. Those did a lot of damage and didn't require the kind of expenditure that a Death Star requires.
The empire was better off trying to build a better version of the Star Forge without the Force powered tech then building any of the Death Stars, at least that way they build Tie Defenders and super star destroyers in larger numbers
Planet killing weapons by very nature bad ideas
I feel like the scale of DS2 is directly contradicted by the scale of the wreckage of in Rise of Skywalker - but I also like to pretend that movie actually made sense, so 🤷♂
900km in diameter is still relatively small on a planetary scale.
@@SawdustMusic-rd8mj Yes, but you could see at least half of the upper hemisphere. That would be like seeing an entire state or small country on the horizon. At human height on a flat plane, the horizon is about 4 - 5km away (on Earth