P-51 was a good escort fighter. Its main strengths were range and speed at high altitude. At 10K meters it could accelerate up to 703kph, whereas FW.190A-8 (which was actually slower than e. g. A-5!) could fly at 635kph. At lower altitudes the fight was much more even. At 6km the top speed of both P-51 and FW.190A was around 680kph with Focke Wulf having an edge in roll rate. Manoeuvrability was similar. It's a common myth that FW.190A was not good in turning. A competent pilot could easily use it as a dogfighter, whereas inexperienced aviators were often afraid of pushing it to the limits due to virtually no pre-stall warning. FW.190 had much more comfortable cockpit. Small things like no unnecessary gauges, ammo counter and Kommandogerät (which was the first automatic engine management system) made it a joy to fly. Everything felt polished and very well planned. If I had to choose a fighter I'd always pick the Focke Wulf. The main reason P-51 was so effective against Luftwaffe was lack of well trained german pilots in 1944/45. It's also important to note that Americans outnumbered Luftwaffe 6-8 : 1 and usually began with altitude advantage. They would simply dive on unsuspecting newbies focused on destroying bombers. I'm not saying that P-51 was a bad aircraft. It was arguably one of the best fighters of the war. But it was not a super plane like some individuals think. It was quantity and pilot training that won the air war over Europle, not the Mustang. FW.190A was very similar below 6K meters, whereas FW.190D usually held all advantages but speed (and only at very high altitudes)
"One of the best fighters of the war", you are saying that Fockes were easy prey for mustangs and I also think they're pretty much energy trapped/turnfought by yaks, but Wikipedia says it was the most lethal warbird of them all. I don't get it, I prefer to believe you.
Don't forget the 30° seat of the FW that give an advantage of 1,5 G before blackout in high G continuous turns .........my favorite : the A8 , the best :.... the TA152 , the "what if": FW190D + DB603N ...….
The FW 190A was a great bird, but in the Defense of the Reich scenario it was outclassed by the P 51, since most combat was over the 6K meters mark. The Dora was another thing, but it was too late and to few to make a real difference, the was was lost and Germany ran just on fear and stubborness, with only fumes of gas left.
@@ricardosoto5770 the fockes were also low altitude fighters made specifically to counter yaks but then Russia pulled early the Yak 3 and fockes started to get reversed back in a mixture of turn fighting, energy fighting and reversing scissors, the yak 3 literally used everything and was a lot faster
You are absolutely right that it turned well, but not at high speeds or high altitudes. It out -turned the P-51 And Spitfire at medium low altitudes if the pilot knew enough to lower speed and power. This shows the physics of these aircrafts is not understood correctly: The propeller power actually resisted the turn... See my channel for details. On the bad side, the FW-190 could reach high speeds, but had the worst handling of WWII at high speed and on dive and zoom maneuvers. The 109 was much better on the vertical and at high altitudes, despite a slightly lower absolute speed in dives. Again see my channel for front line pilot-based accounts and conclusions, and stay away from the period’s nonsense test pilots accounts... (Especially the US Navy)
Thrilling to see both planes in the air together. I can't get caught up in their aesthetics. The 190 has the look of a bulldog, a war machine. The 51 looks like a graceful metal bird. Also, the 51 looks like something from the future for that time. The bubble canopy, shark nose, and wings placed slightly aft seem to point the way toward later jet fighters. There are always debates about the 51's reputation: was it earned, or the product of the plane's inherent glamour? It is said that the greatest ability is availability. Availability is what the P-51 had. It was a legitimate fighter, and when introduced was the only fighter that could escort allied bombers all the way to Berlin. Later modifications that increased the range of the P-47 allowed it to do so as well, but in the beginning, the P-51 stood on the airstrip alone. It was available and could get the job done--and looked awesome. That's how legends are born.
Fw all the way. A more reliable workhorse. I prefer a radial anyhow. I think the 51 is overrated, Fighter Command 8th AF stated "The P-47 broke the back of the Luftwaffe", Lemay kept the 47 in Europe after the war because he wanted the reliability and strength of the 47 had all "Bubbletops" converted to D-40's. The Bomber Generals just used the 51 to cover their rearends after their "The Bombers don't need an escort" gaff.
P-51 was a ten year advancement but it could not take bullets the radio could take some bullets into the heads and still make it home nothing at hoses from front to rear all over the f****** place with a beer can skin on it
What they didn't tell you is that they came out with some of the planes and some of the Tuskegee Airmen died in them because they were experimental ones that they used on black people because they didn't give a f*** about black people he'll the engines came loose from the frames and they would fly apart in midair more of them that f****** fell apart was because they were running missions on bombers and most of the time I never had to deal with Fighters because they only put them into war at the end of the war when there was no good German Pilots anymore they were all killed because they never had a chance to rebuild their in the never came home they had to fight till you died it wasn't like any other country he was like fighting for the devil I only wish Hitler would have been killed by that British soldier in World War 1 when he had his rifle trained on him the being is Hitler was a failed painter not even German mother was Jewish and Hitler was the only country that would accept them in any military fabric because Belgian is what he was and he was too much of a wimp to even carry a rifle so he was a runner in World War one and he never won the Medal of Honor their Version 9 cross he bestowed that upon himself he was no hero and he was not a tactician he was a murderer from the get-go
When doing a wheel landing in the P-51 Mustang you have to raise the nose very slightly to flare and slow your descent rate and then you want to make sure you touch down as lightly on the main gear as possible at around 90-95 MPH. Once you mains are down you bring the power back to idle and apply a little nose down or forward stick control on the elevator.
The whole fight over the western front was about the numbers, who gets the bigger number in the sky. It was an air war of attrition. Those two planes had very closely matched characteristics. The whole theory of a fair duel is plain wrong, the Luftwaffe was facing a much bigger number of allied pilots which were well trained. Meanwhile there was a big number of German pilots which were hastly under-trained to fill in the ranks of the depleted LW. There was another interesting aspect is that a vast number of the p51 had G suits which gave them an edge in the high G load turning maneuvers. So those aspects: numbers and training are as important as the quality of the plane, only by having those in mind a complete picture is possible.
@@identitydixie1061 It is an ash 82, an engine very similar to the BMW 801 in displacement and power, it is widely used in replicas and restorations of fw190, the only fw190 with the restored BMW 801 that I know of is this
@@jnik_3234 I don’t agree. The later mustangs were faster, more maneuverable and had a longer range. America had new pilots and by late 1943 Germans mostly had new pilots. The advantage was the plane. I do a agree though the 190 was a solid aircraft.
Beide Maschinen waren ein Hammer. Ein FW Pilot sagte, daß die Mustang schnell in der Kurve war, hielt man die FW in der Kurve, holte man die Mustang ein. Vielen Dank !
I've heard a number of German WWII fighter pilots (including Galland) say that in a real free for all when altitudes and other factors would be uncertain, they had a preference for the Bf 109. My understanding for these old school guys was that while they understood that the 190 was potentially more competent, they had overwhelming hours/experience in 109s and could make that plane do things (shall we say emergency maneuvers) that they'd not necessarily feel comfortable doing in a 190. I think I understand that when the chips are hard down you'd want to be in a plane that was absolute second nature.
The 190 was actually much more robust than the 109, so I would do these "things" preferably with the Focke-Wulf. It's also a myth that Galland preferred the 109. He urged to replace the 109 by the 262, and to develop the 190 to the Ta 152. He also had the Fw 190 Dora protect the 262s ("Platzschutz").
It makes no sense to compare a quite specific version (P-51 D, not B) to a quite general version. Fw-190 had many variants. Do you mean A or D? A-5? A-8? A-9? or D-9? You could also compare it to "Spitfire" without specifying what version of Spitfire. In spring 1944, the Fw 190-A8 was common, and somewhat inferior to the P-51 D at the large heights where the B-17s entered Germany. In autumn of the same year, the Fw 190 D-9 appeared, which changed the situation.
Kurt Tanks Meisterstück mmmhhh die TA-152😍😊in irgend einer Ami-Abstellhalle wie die Horten 229 der ERSTE STEALTHFLIEGER der Welt wird sie vor sich hingammeln leider traurig 😣 für jeden der Historische Flugzeuge mag liebt und sie lieber mit Rainer May ,,Über den Wolken" Song im Hinterkopf in real sehen möchte. MC PUNK 🖖
My two fave western front fighters of WW2. It that FW 190 A(6 most likely) a restoration or a new built 1/1 replica using the original plans and tools but LaGG engines?
By the time the P51D was on the scene the F190 pilots were young inexperienced pilots mostly and grossly outnumbered when 750 P51Ds escorting the bombers are turned loose with full fuel tanks it was all over
Some great aerial footage but some of your specs are incorrect..... The Mustang was powered by a RR Merlin built under licence by Packard, it was not Packard's own engine. What Packard did, which was excellent, was tool the engine for mass production and interchangeability. Something the Brits couldn't do due to cost and the threat of bombing. Ironically though, the Merlin was inspired by the original Allison V12 which RR had admired on a visit to the US in the early 20s. We should remember too that the US initially had no interest in the Mustang, it saw all its early development in the hands of the RAF...... All that said, I think the P-51D was probably the finest escort fighter of the war. When it comes down to comparing it to other types it is mostly conjecture.... Most fighters were closely matched and it all came down to the pilot.
***** Just a suggestion, if you're going to give info streaming at the bottom of your viddie. Please don't use white writing when there's a white background. ... Just my opinion.
In my humble opinion, they had their advantages and disadvantages, in the end it depended on who was the better pilot, also which plane had the longer range, because many German fighters including the ME 262 were shot down by P51's once they ran out of, fuel and had to land, that gave a window of opportunity to the P51 that usually flew the first part of it's mission with extra fuel tanks attached that were jettisoned for a dogfight.
P-51 was a good escort fighter. Its main strengths were range and speed at high altitude. At 10K meters it could accelerate up to 703kph, whereas FW.190A-8 (which was actually slower than e. g. A-5!) could fly at 635kph. At lower altitudes the fight was much more even. At 6km the top speed of both P-51 and FW.190A was around 680kph with Focke Wulf having an edge in roll rate. Manoeuvrability was similar. It's a common myth that FW.190A was not good in turning. A competent pilot could easily use it as a dogfighter, whereas inexperienced aviators were often afraid of pushing it to the limits due to virtually no pre-stall warning.
FW.190 had much more comfortable cockpit. Small things like no unnecessary gauges, ammo counter and Kommandogerät (which was the first automatic engine management system) made it a joy to fly. Everything felt polished and very well planned. If I had to choose a fighter I'd always pick the Focke Wulf.
The main reason P-51 was so effective against Luftwaffe was lack of well trained german pilots in 1944/45. It's also important to note that Americans outnumbered Luftwaffe 6-8 : 1 and usually began with altitude advantage. They would simply dive on unsuspecting newbies focused on destroying bombers.
I'm not saying that P-51 was a bad aircraft. It was arguably one of the best fighters of the war. But it was not a super plane like some individuals think. It was quantity and pilot training that won the air war over Europle, not the Mustang.
FW.190A was very similar below 6K meters, whereas FW.190D usually held all advantages but speed (and only at very high altitudes)
"One of the best fighters of the war", you are saying that Fockes were easy prey for mustangs and I also think they're pretty much energy trapped/turnfought by yaks, but Wikipedia says it was the most lethal warbird of them all.
I don't get it, I prefer to believe you.
Don't forget the 30° seat of the FW that give an advantage of 1,5 G before blackout in high G continuous turns .........my favorite : the A8 , the best :.... the TA152 , the "what if": FW190D + DB603N ...….
The FW 190A was a great bird, but in the Defense of the Reich scenario it was outclassed by the P 51, since most combat was over the 6K meters mark. The Dora was another thing, but it was too late and to few to make a real difference, the was was lost and Germany ran just on fear and stubborness, with only fumes of gas left.
@@ricardosoto5770 the fockes were also low altitude fighters made specifically to counter yaks but then Russia pulled early the Yak 3 and fockes started to get reversed back in a mixture of turn fighting, energy fighting and reversing scissors, the yak 3 literally used everything and was a lot faster
You are absolutely right that it turned well, but not at high speeds or high altitudes. It out -turned the P-51 And Spitfire at medium low altitudes if the pilot knew enough to lower speed and power. This shows the physics of these aircrafts is not understood correctly: The propeller power actually resisted the turn... See my channel for details. On the bad side, the FW-190 could reach high speeds, but had the worst handling of WWII at high speed and on dive and zoom maneuvers. The 109 was much better on the vertical and at high altitudes, despite a slightly lower absolute speed in dives. Again see my channel for front line pilot-based accounts and conclusions, and stay away from the period’s nonsense test pilots accounts... (Especially the US Navy)
The emblem painted on the cowl of the FW 190 displayed is JG 1, and was used
from mid 1943 until the end of the War.
I hope we will see one day FW-190 D-9 flying again.
Indeed
Is ther any original Dora left?
@@petro3366 Yes, there are four original D's left. They are all in te US.
Thrilling to see both planes in the air together. I can't get caught up in their aesthetics. The 190 has the look of a bulldog, a war machine. The 51 looks like a graceful metal bird. Also, the 51 looks like something from the future for that time. The bubble canopy, shark nose, and wings placed slightly aft seem to point the way toward later jet fighters.
There are always debates about the 51's reputation: was it earned, or the product of the plane's inherent glamour? It is said that the greatest ability is availability. Availability is what the P-51 had. It was a legitimate fighter, and when introduced was the only fighter that could escort allied bombers all the way to Berlin. Later modifications that increased the range of the P-47 allowed it to do so as well, but in the beginning, the P-51 stood on the airstrip alone. It was available and could get the job done--and looked awesome. That's how legends are born.
Beautiful machines, love to see them,so mint condition
What an amazing sight.
ein Augen UND Ohrenschmaus!! Vielen Dank!
Danke für deinen Kommentar
Fw all the way. A more reliable workhorse. I prefer a radial anyhow. I think the 51 is overrated, Fighter Command 8th AF stated "The P-47 broke the back of the Luftwaffe", Lemay kept the 47 in Europe after the war because he wanted the reliability and strength of the 47 had all "Bubbletops" converted to D-40's. The Bomber Generals just used the 51 to cover their rearends after their "The Bombers don't need an escort" gaff.
agreed
Love both and it seems both carried various missions for which they were developed.
Mr. Dyer may i ask which U.S. General remarked the P-47 " broke the LW back."
P-51 was a ten year advancement but it could not take bullets the radio could take some bullets into the heads and still make it home nothing at hoses from front to rear all over the f****** place with a beer can skin on it
What they didn't tell you is that they came out with some of the planes and some of the Tuskegee Airmen died in them because they were experimental ones that they used on black people because they didn't give a f*** about black people he'll the engines came loose from the frames and they would fly apart in midair more of them that f****** fell apart was because they were running missions on bombers and most of the time I never had to deal with Fighters because they only put them into war at the end of the war when there was no good German Pilots anymore they were all killed because they never had a chance to rebuild their in the never came home they had to fight till you died it wasn't like any other country he was like fighting for the devil I only wish Hitler would have been killed by that British soldier in World War 1 when he had his rifle trained on him the being is Hitler was a failed painter not even German mother was Jewish and Hitler was the only country that would accept them in any military fabric because Belgian is what he was and he was too much of a wimp to even carry a rifle so he was a runner in World War one and he never won the Medal of Honor their Version 9 cross he bestowed that upon himself he was no hero and he was not a tactician he was a murderer from the get-go
When doing a wheel landing in the P-51 Mustang you have to raise the nose very slightly to flare and slow your descent rate and then you want to make sure you touch down as lightly on the main gear as possible at around 90-95 MPH. Once you mains are down you bring the power back to idle and apply a little nose down or forward stick control on the elevator.
3 point landing
The whole fight over the western front was about the numbers, who gets the bigger number in the sky. It was an air war of attrition. Those two planes had very closely matched characteristics. The whole theory of a fair duel is plain wrong, the Luftwaffe was facing a much bigger number of allied pilots which were well trained. Meanwhile there was a big number of German pilots which were hastly under-trained to fill in the ranks of the depleted LW. There was another interesting aspect is that a vast number of the p51 had G suits which gave them an edge in the high G load turning maneuvers. So those aspects: numbers and training are as important as the quality of the plane, only by having those in mind a complete picture is possible.
Both are beautiful,sound good and are icons packard v-1650 and BMW 801 are just asmr to the ears
thanks gilbert
@@Warbirds yeaprs
This fw use a Russian engine not the bmw
@@marcosfernandez1744 what engine is it?
@@identitydixie1061 It is an ash 82, an engine very similar to the BMW 801 in displacement and power, it is widely used in replicas and restorations of fw190, the only fw190 with the restored BMW 801 that I know of is this
Nice Vid.. Is there any long nose FW190's still flying anywhere in the World ?.
thx - i don't know a flying model
I find the commentary very informative. Thanks !
thanx
MAGNIFICO!
thx
P-51: I'm Good Boy,
FW-190: I'm Bad Guy!
😉
I’ll take the good boy. Because it kicks the bad boys butt.
@@davidreinhart2508 it depends on the pilot. And the planes were really similar.
@@jnik_3234 I don’t agree. The later mustangs were faster, more maneuverable and had a longer range. America had new pilots and by late 1943 Germans mostly had new pilots. The advantage was the plane. I do a agree though the 190 was a solid aircraft.
Beide Maschinen waren ein Hammer. Ein FW Pilot sagte, daß die Mustang schnell in der Kurve war, hielt man die FW in der Kurve, holte man die Mustang ein. Vielen Dank !
War das Erich Brunotte ?
@@Warbirds Servus ! Nein, daß Gespräch ist mit einem FW Piloten der zuletzt die Tank 152 flog. Ist auf TH-cam zu sehen. Beste Grüße, Heiko
@@heikoplotner2636 hast du bitte einen Link dafür. 🙂
I've heard a number of German WWII fighter pilots (including Galland) say that in a real free for all when altitudes and other factors would be uncertain, they had a preference for the Bf 109. My understanding for these old school guys was that while they understood that the 190 was potentially more competent, they had overwhelming hours/experience in 109s and could make that plane do things (shall we say emergency maneuvers) that they'd not necessarily feel comfortable doing in a 190. I think I understand that when the chips are hard down you'd want to be in a plane that was absolute second nature.
The reason was that bmw 801 radial engine, germans should have put the db 605 in the fw-190 it would have been a classic
The 190 was actually much more robust than the 109, so I would do these "things" preferably with the Focke-Wulf. It's also a myth that Galland preferred the 109. He urged to replace the 109 by the 262, and to develop the 190 to the Ta 152. He also had the Fw 190 Dora protect the 262s ("Platzschutz").
Che spettacolo entrambi bellissimi.
Ma sono un tifoso della luth waffen❤️
Overall I love all three flybys
thanks mate
It makes no sense to compare a quite specific version (P-51 D, not B) to a quite general version. Fw-190 had many variants. Do you mean A or D? A-5? A-8? A-9? or D-9? You could also compare it to "Spitfire" without specifying what version of Spitfire. In spring 1944, the Fw 190-A8 was common, and somewhat inferior to the P-51 D at the large heights where the B-17s entered Germany. In autumn of the same year, the Fw 190 D-9 appeared, which changed the situation.
Kurze Frage bist du bei Flugzeuge eher ein deutscher oder Amerikaner :D und wie immer ein nettes video :D
Hi , eigentlich mag ich deutsche , amerikanische und russische . Umso seltener desto besser
Below 20,000 feet the planes were equal; above 20,000 feet the Mustang completely outclassed the 190A
why did i think this would be a dogfight
Öhm. Würger wird im allgemeinen mit Butcher Bird übersetzt.
Und: Großartiges Video! Mehr davon. :-)
Danke
Die FW-190, ganz klar. Ja, eine D9 wäre klasse oder dann gleich Nägel mit Köpfen: Eine Ta 152 ;-)
Bring mir eine ich filme Sie ^^
Kurt Tanks Meisterstück mmmhhh die TA-152😍😊in irgend einer Ami-Abstellhalle wie die Horten 229 der ERSTE STEALTHFLIEGER der Welt wird sie vor sich hingammeln leider traurig 😣 für jeden der Historische Flugzeuge mag liebt und sie lieber mit Rainer May ,,Über den Wolken" Song im Hinterkopf in real sehen möchte.
MC PUNK 🖖
Ja!!! Das wäre klasse!!! Aber die vergammeln in einem Ami Depot! Denke ich mal.Leider! Geld!!!
My two fave western front fighters of WW2. It that FW 190 A(6 most likely) a restoration or a new built 1/1 replica using the original plans and tools but LaGG engines?
Its an 1/1 restored fw 190 a8 with interim Engine AsH82T. BMW Engine 801 is in Restauration
Hard to read white letters in front of a white or light grey background
sorry for that
By the time the P51D was on the scene the F190 pilots were young inexperienced pilots mostly and grossly outnumbered when 750 P51Ds escorting the bombers are turned loose with full fuel tanks it was all over
Rainer The Best
Thomas my friend
The FW-190 engines starting sounds like a farting rhino
you seem to love farts
@@Warbirds The FW 190 is a restoration or a replica? Is the Engine a BMW radial or a Chinese copy of the LaGG 9 engine as most replica use.
The 190 wat a beautiful bird the best
Some great aerial footage but some of your specs are incorrect..... The Mustang was powered by a RR Merlin built under licence by Packard, it was not Packard's own engine. What Packard did, which was excellent, was tool the engine for mass production and interchangeability. Something the Brits couldn't do due to cost and the threat of bombing. Ironically though, the Merlin was inspired by the original Allison V12 which RR had admired on a visit to the US in the early 20s. We should remember too that the US initially had no interest in the Mustang, it saw all its early development in the hands of the RAF...... All that said, I think the P-51D was probably the finest escort fighter of the war. When it comes down to comparing it to other types it is mostly conjecture.... Most fighters were closely matched and it all came down to the pilot.
Both very good planes , americans had an advantage, high equality of fuels
***** Just a suggestion, if you're going to give info streaming at the bottom of your viddie. Please don't use white writing when there's a white background. ... Just my opinion.
The FW190 has the wrong engine - no cooling fan before the 14-star
True the 801 is under Restauration.
I'm an aviation buff but really don't see the need for the "fauxstikas". It's not worth any pursuit of historic accuracy.
In my humble opinion, they had their advantages and disadvantages, in the end it depended on who was the better pilot, also which plane had the longer range, because many German fighters including the ME 262 were shot down by P51's once they ran out of, fuel and had to land, that gave a window of opportunity to the P51 that usually flew the first part of it's mission with extra fuel tanks attached that were jettisoned for a dogfight.
Nothing sounds like the he rolls merlin
Didn’t the Allies name this “Butcher Bird.”?
Mustangs are Awesome planes.
Yes
Lo mejor de todo es que los 2 aviones fueron diseñados x alemanes
;
Fw is not complete where is sfastica
In Germany, Swastikas are forbitten!
Был бы там Лаг 7 всех бы дернул
Ха ха фв сделал мустанга хотя иразработан был 1939 ом году
LOVE how they took the swastika off the fw-190
prost