Entire Table Calls me an "Angler". But...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2023
- Bart takes a call today where the caller bets pot on the turn and the opponent is later revealed to have more chips after the Hero loses the hand. This causes a commotion and the caller says everyone thinks that he was angling the opponent.
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1. How would you handle this situation if you were the caller. 2. Do you think that there is more to this story?
After having listened until the point where the floor is called (around 7:30), I would (in the future) call the floor once the dealer refuses to answer my question whether she is all-in for 400 or not.
@@chrisko6439totally agree. I would demand clarity on that and hold the action until it is clear cut how much is in the pot. This dealer was sleeping on the job.
First: If I really think she didn’t have that 500-chip in play I would have demanded they went to the tapes.
Second. If she HAD that chip, then caller must ask himself if he would have folded because of the extra 150 on the flop? If he would have KNOWN that she put in 900, should he fold?
Since the answer is clearly a no, then he should have given her the money. In the fairness of the game.
How did nobody ask where the purple chip came from? He said he clearly saw the 400 in chips and no purple... Seems kind of important to the story.
@@staffangrenehammar1770 it's not about whether he would or wouldn't have called if he knew she had the 900. As Bart and the caller discussed, there is also the issue of whether he would have received the $900 had he won the hand himself. If the answer to that is no, then there is a problem with the situation and the caller is the one being angled.
If you ask an important question like "how deep is villian" and you don't get an answer, you keep asking until you get one. You don't let action continue or discuss how many times to run it, etc until you get a count. IDK if there's an angle or not, but you can be sure that if I ask a question to clarify the action I'm not going to stop until I get a clear answer.
Yeah, this is the weird bit. I ask a question because the answer is kinda important, I ask again, still no answer. I move on because my question obviously wasn't important afterall ?!?
I'd get a dealer count.
Agreed. Dealer is doing all kinds of things weird here if played out as described. Will not confirm last action, then proceeds as if it was an all-in and call when neither of those words were said. Why would the dealer proceed that way without answering the guys question about the all-in amount? Something isn't right here and it may just be the guy's story.
Indeed, Bart should have asked why he suddenly stopped caring what the value of her all-in was after (supposedly) getting no answer 2x in a row. if caller's story is accurate, his answer to "run it twice?" should have been "Hold on dealer, i keep asking how much she has put in the pot. Can you please confirm the action before dealing more cards?"
@@TrueGrantstayea I’m confused by this.The dealer just ignores him twice?Just blank refuses to answer. I’ve never seen a dealer do that
They used cameras in a recent call to track down a caller in Cincinnati for $600 but won't look at the camera for a player for $500 🤔
Golden Nugget has much smaller margins 😅
This 500 isn't coming out of their pocket
The guy accused someone of cheating simlpy because he miscounted his opponents stack, what do you think is more likely, the cheating part or getting the visual count wrong? You can't call for cameras and accuse other people of cheating when the odds of a mistake on your end are way higher.
Their money vs not their money. Pretty simple
Yeah the casino uses their security systems to protect themselves, not the players
I mean, 900 is objectively wrong, but if he's seriously accusing her of sneaking an extra $500 chip onto the table, why aren't they taking that seriously? The entire table, including the villain, clearly thought she had pot or less on the flop since she didn't raise. Not one person saw a $500 chip until the river? Egregious not to check the cameras.
If it's a casino it's because they don't like poker. They would much rather have slot machines unfortunately.
Then why do they have poker?
Its because floor people are afraid to enforce the rules. Poker is profitable for casinos and is steady income which is good for them. Ive never been in a casino where every single slot machine is manned.
@@davids4063 don't casinos need poker to achieve a certain number of stars? I feel like I heard that somewhere, but obviously that could be wrong.
@clkou yea but poker helps their slots. People come to gamble on poker. Spouse plays slots ect
The floor and camera people probably just understaffed with all of the tournaments going on. Or incompetent. Bart had another call a while back where a guy ran into this situation at Aria and they checked the cameras and corrected it.
We ignoring the fact that hero says she bought in for minimum $1000 only a few hands before and played one hand where she called a couple of bets then folded. She should have $700-800 at the start of this hand. If she pre-flop bet $350 then having $400 post flop is about right. No way she can still have $900 post flop unless she added that $500 dollar chip. Dealer should have been able to confirm what she bought in for if it was only a few hands earlier and everyone should be able to confirm that she hadn't won a hand since then?
If the villain really had $500 chip this hand, then she probably bought in for $1500 to begin with, and caller is just making a mistake on her original buy-in.
This is straight forward.
The floor didn't use the correct measures to ensure the game's integrity. They took the shortcut for the on-the-fly correct decision.
Table took the pretty gal's side.
Dealer was incompetent, or they were tired.
This isn't about "pretty gal privilege". Female minorities are rarely heald accountable for their actions in this cowardly country. Pretty or not.
That’s why I don’t always tip dealers. If they control the table properly, I tip. If they are looking around the room, having conversations with other people walking the room, etc, I don’t tip. I hate lazy dealers.
Correct. Same thing with the Hustler scandal - - you can cheat at poker now as long as you're an attractive woman, since everyone will take her side even when it's very obvious what went on.
He says Pot for 750 or whatever. She pushes her entire stack across, that's all in. Then she asks how many times do you want to run it, because she is obviously all in. I mean its the dealers bad for not counting the chips when he asked. Dealer is bad or this guy is bending his story.
@@jamesjones2675yea just like how it's the teachers fault if a student fails a class. Sometimes you just can't control ppl. Especially old ppl, drunk ppl, distracted ppl etc.
Weird that the dealer didn’t answer any questions while this guy was asking
And that the caller just moved on to how many times to run it after nobody would answer his questions. I'm very skeptical of his story.
Yea and in his telling he twice said he got no confirmation of the 400, and twice says he did.
Not that "weird". Most the dealers are either clueless, fresh-off-the-boat, or both.
@@cj7139or they just don't hear. Loud casino.
I don't doubt the sincerity of the callers recollection of events, I mean why would he call in just a discuss a phony story? I think what really happened here is the caller has very poor interpretation of events. Essentially nothing he said makes any sense. I've been playing a long time and it's really impossible for someone to freeze the game and directly inquire with the dealer twice point blank and yet nobody else at the table thinks it happened, and then to top it all off you just carry on with the hand anyway suddenly unconcerned with the fact that you've yet to receive a response.
Lastly going north is a pretty ballsy move. I've seen it once, and it was from one of the biggest douches at the table, and his opponent actually let it happen because he had the nuts, and then specifically called him out after he stacked him and made sure the chips were in his pile.
Point is most people only go north between hands, not during the hand, because the strike to your reputation and potential for getting kicked out just isn't worth it, especially from a female player at these stakes.
I think cameras should be involved here. the caller could be considered angling because they would never fold for $150 more but the caller insisted they saw $400 in chips which changes things. Either the caller owes $900, owes $750 and is called an angler or rebated whatever they put in and the villain is kicked out.
Right, it's not the difference between $750 and $900, it's between $400 and $900. And it changes the entire action of the hand if your opponent is hiding a high-denomination chip.
She slipped the 500 on the table when she hit the straight on turn 😂😂
Villain is clearly a professional angler and caller got angled. But if dealer isn't answering my questions I'm literally screaming at him to tell me what villain has before he runs the board out like stand up, put ur hand in the middle, and if he still ignores you, scream floor. When you're playing w unknowns pot should be made before running board out Imo
Sorry I came up with almost the same answer 4 hours later! I am not trying to angle shoot you, nor I am an attractive Asian female?
Exactly. Imagine continuing on w the hand, with the dealer ignoring your questions lol
@omarfromthewire603 sorry to hear about your real world OD or tv world head shot
They should have gone to the cameras to see if she snuck on five hundred dollars.
Correct imo, what are they afraid of, getting caught?
If we are proceeding with the assumption that she had $900 behind on the flop, which you have to if you are going to award more than $400, then as I see it, the action went: Caller bet pot ($750) and then opponent pushed all of her chips into the pot ($900). When a player pushes all of their chips into the pot, that is an all-in bet. After that, caller acknowledged that she was all-in (at least that is implied in his question "is she all in for $400"). The players then discuss running it once or twice, which also implies that they understood that it was an all in pot. While the caller may not have explicitly said "call" after the opponent's all-in (presumably because he thought she was all-in for less), he proceeded as if the hand was all-in for the amount of chips that his opponent put into the pot with her all in bet. I would rule it as accepted action for the amount of chips that the opponent went all in. I don't see how you could say that she accepted the action as limited to the caller's pot bet when she went all in for more after that. And the fact that it was only $150 more in a $2000+ pot also weighs in favor of ruling the opponent's all-in as the accepted action.
If I were in this spot, I probably would have just paid the $900 and accepted that I had miscounted my opponent's stack/all-in. If I were absolutely positive that she had less than $1000 to start the hand or was somehow otherwise 100% sure that the $500 chip had been added later, then I might escalate the matter to a floor supervisor. I might also talk to the floor away from the table about the dealer's failure to count the all-in bet and to answer my questions about it, not to get any recompense, but just to let them know for dealer training purposes (and just to vent TBH).
well said. my thoughts exactly.
I find it suspicious that the caller asked twice to verify the amount of the bet/pot. The dealer should have done that. If I had been in this situation, I would have keep repeating it until the dealer did what was requested. If she had lost, I would guess the $500 chip would have not appeared. Man, some pokers players are scumbags. LOL
I agree with you, it wasn't like the player did not understand English of what you are asking. The $500 chip should have stand out.
She might've been left-handed. Alec Torelli ends up with his big denomination chips hidden from time to time due to that.
Why have cameras if you don't use them? It might be a waste of time for more trivial amounts, but it should have been used here.
The reason the camera should be looked at to confirm if the 500 was added or not is to protect the integrity of the game. Yes hero said pot but now villain is freerolling to lose 400 or win 900.
To me that is protecting the integrity. Idk
If you ask a question and it doesn't get answered but then it's your own fault for continuing without verifying the answer. Just hold the play up and say how much is it until the answer.
The table turning against him (assuming the story is relatively close to 100% accurate) is ridiculous
Right? Odd. Unless there was a promise of a soapy handy from the lady... If this joke offends anyone. I don't care. I find myself quite amusing. May be the gummie bears talking. Jokes aside though, 100% ridiculous like you said.🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🐻🐻🐻🪴🪴🪴🪴
I've seen situations like this play out just like that though. In my experience, it's almost always when it's a younger average to above-average looking woman. I had it happen to me, I'm all in on the river and villain asks if I have a full house. All I say is, "No I don't have a boat", she calls and loses with a flush to my full house and the table went nuts. I got cursed at, telling me how horrible I am, it was crazy and so bad I literally just picked up and went home for the night.
Its always on you as a player to know how much your opponent has, what the bet size is etc always make sure things are clarified before further action is taken.
It's on the dealer to know who's all in, how much for & who has called.
@Petty-Cash Have you seen some of the dealers your really gonna trust them with your money?? Yes technically they are supposed to do that but alot of people suck at their job and that includes dealers so its on you to make sure everything is right get up and go stand next to the player and count their chips if you really have to if there's any doubt don't leave it up to some dealer who could care less. There are some amazing dealers out there but there are also some that aren't it's up to you to be fully aware of the situation I've seen great dealers even make mistakes.
There's a video from the Commerce a long time ago where a guy angles by holding on to his cards without calling the all in jam after he bets, and when he loses at showdown claims he doesn't owe the full amount because he never said call.
I imagine this is probably what the table was accusing the caller here of doing. However, the key difference here is that the caller asked for clarification on the bet size twice while removing the $400 from the pot. He clearly wasn't trying to angle (if the story happened as told).
I like Bart’s deep in thought look he gives when he’s staring up. Lots of processing going on there.
Bart gpt
Bart or community, sorry for the could you please explain something to me regarding tournament Holdem games?
When you calculate your BBs (for example to understand whether you have to shove with a short stack), and the tournament has BB ante, do you consider it? Like, if your stack is 20k and BB is 2k, do you have 10 BBs or 5 BBs (because of 2k ante)?
THank you!!
10BBs, you don't consider the ante.
They needed to invistigate whether or not the 500 chip was on ghe table or not to get any ruling right
this is what happens when its the dealers first day
Hero was angled. The second that villain started playing the woman bs, it’s obvious. She had that bullet locked and loaded. Probably done this same thing before.
This reminds me of an early 2000’s hand I played at Commerce where I was playing pretty deep in the 10-20 and a woman across the table had about $1k total in front of her. We got verbal all ins on a T66 board where I had TT and she had 66. After the river she opens up a sunglasses case that was on the table and pulled out 5 $5k chips to be paid stating they were on the table. The floor ruled against her, but I was willing to just cash out and be barred if they didn’t.
Wooooow. I have no words for this one man!
Was this dealer high or something? I have never not had a dealer verbalize something, or at the very least if they were unsure, check with the other player, or spread their bet out so I could visually see the bet..
colluding with the villain.
Was the villain Alec Torrelis girlfriend😂
Alec in drag
I'm trying to figure out, just preflop and how you can go from 75 -> 350? A pot sized raise is 3x the last bet plus the remaining money. Unless I missed something, it is 3x $75 + $25 + $10 + $5 = $265. Where is the extra $85 coming from?
Caller (me) raises to $75. She can now make it 75*3 225, plus the $75+$25+$10+5 which is $340 but they round the small blind 15 upto 25 to make pot easier to calculate.
@@nicktaylor6501 I trust what you are saying but who ever came up with that is just flat out wrong.
If we take the 350 + 75 + 25 + 10 + 5 = 465. The sb is 5, so I'm not sure if you meant bb up to 25 or actually the sb but it doesn't make any difference. A pot sized raise means the caller (assuming heads up) is getting 2-1 on the call. So you have to put in 275 into 465, which is obv less than 2-1.
If they did it right, the pot raise would have been to 265, and pot total would have been 380, with 190 to call.
It’s just that everyone has seen at least once someone win the all in and try to throw a big chip out there like it was all in the whole time.
Isnt this a clear fold preeflop?
Corporation Mike...wow, thanks for the nostalgia.
Every time I've called an all in, I've been asked to throw in 1 chip at least to confirm my call.
It sounds like the floor made the quickest decision, to keep the game going. I would’ve liked to have gone to the cameras and confirmed her buy-in, previous action and when/where the $500 chip discrepancy came from.
A massive pet peeve of mine when I used to deal PLO was players blurting out pot and not having the ability or desire to do the math. I know as a dealer you have to run the game, but guys going “pot, re-pot” and then looking to you to crunch the numbers for them was always a hassle. You wanna bet it? Then figure it out for yourself first!
Was everyone on this table deaf? How does hero ask twice about the amount twice, take away chips and no one notice?
I don't believe that is what happened. People recall stories from their perspective and also are not always 100% honest.
@@EllieBanks333 the more I think about it, you may be right.
@@EllieBanks333I am the caller and this is exactly what happened. I sat at the table for a few minutes, before rage cashing out, writing a text message to my two buddies who were in Vegas with me to explain the situation so I am going off of notes taken minutes afterwards.
@@nicktaylor6501 I believe you, but I think what is confusing people is why you didn't hold the action until you got the confirmed amount. If the dealer isnt answering you, that's a giant red flag.
@@ZeraLordin hindsight I definitely should have done that. In the moment, I just assumed that by asking the question twice AND withdrawing the chips from the pot that it was confirmed. Obviously this was a mistake and faulty assumption but when I wasn’t corrected, in the moment, I just moved the game forward because people get pissy about holding up time raked games.
Limon had a story with his interview with DGAF where he said someone snuck a $500 chip or maybe even a $1000 chip on his stack after an allin and they went to the cameras or pretended to and said it was inconclusive but that they probably didn't check and didn't care about the outcome.
The Caller got Adelsteined!
He now says he verbally confirmed 400, he did not. The caller is a scumbag.
yeah exactly, HE verbally "confirmed" and no one else, dude is a clown
was the pot more than he thought when he potted
I use the screen name Angler on club GG because I fish rod and reel which is the definition of angler.
This situation would easily have been prevented by any reasonable effort from the dealer, i.e. verifying villain was all-in and making a count of her chips before running out the board.
I played in King's Lounge a handful of times this summer and am not surprised by this situation at all. Many of the dealers there were inexperienced and strangely seemed very averse to verbalizing anything. E.g. once I was stacked in an all-in for about 3K and the dealer, without saying anything, immediately started pushing all my chips to villain though we had similar stacks (I had to ask twice for the dealer to make a count to confirm he had slightly more). Other times there were situations splitting and awarding multiple side pots where the dealer being completely silent and not talking through the process made players uncomfortable that it was being done correctly and ultimately slowed things down a lot.
Part of me wonders if the fact that many players insisted on the table tipping the dealers out of the bomb pot at the beginning of the down removed any incentive for them to do a good job.
I've caught players going north, palming big chips, etc. Gotta be careful bc thats just what these players are looking for.
Not sure about this extra $500 thing, but this kind of situation comes up in PLO a lot. You say pot, the person shoves an extra $100 or something small but still more than your pot bet. The dealers don't bother to count the stacks because the pot bet and the all-in are close enough. Just announce call or toss in another chip so you don't get freerolled.
That's a pretty easy fold pre, except maybe a jam against a maniac.
If he bet pot and then she put all of her chips in pland assuming she didn't purposely put the $500 in. After the action, then he owes 150. If they can prove, she added the $500 afterwards. Then he would only owe 4 hundred, and she would win the pot, but then get kicked out.
No she should get no money and cuffed
Assuming everything caller says is true, it does sound like the young lady did something fishy with that $500 chip. The story reminds me of an angler at a local cardroom who got caught (twice) palming chips in his stack as he was putting them over the betting line and verbally declaring all-in, to either add on when he was good or go south when he wasn't. It's surprising that no one at the table seems to remember caller twice trying to clarify if villain was all-in for less than the bet. If she was calling, and had enough in her stack, shouldn't she have put the full bet in, then continued to play the turn with her remaining stack? Seems like the dealer should have figured out the villain's chip count before proceeding to deal.
Based on caller's story, I'm with Bart and the caller. I would be curious how others at the table would tell the story. To go against the hero they must believe the villain put out the $500 chip and that the hero simply didn't see it and was wrong in his assessment of the chips she bet (and by extension how much she started the hand with).
If he asked twice and got no response and he made it clear he was pulling back chips to match her bet before the cards were run and no one said anything through all of that, then the caller is definitely right. I am very curious how others at the table would describe what they saw/heard though.
One thing people dont realize is that poker surveillance is horrible. Most of their cameras are set up in a fashion that protects the casinos intetest over the players interest. A lot of these situations like the caller brought up are impossible to figure out even with cammers in the casino.
I can't speak for all rooms, but my room the cameras capture enough detail that they can literally count every single chip in your stack. They've been used precisely for correcting miscalculated pots
@@ticenits1926 Fellow surveillance guy?
Can someone explain how villain can 3B to 350? Isn't pot (75*3)+5+10+25 = 265?
Putting everything else aside, the problem really is that she was basically getting a free roll. If she has a losing hand, she can withhold the $500 chip and say she was all in for $400. Show a winning hand, add the $500 chip and she is paid $900 or $750. From a pure security point of view, the floor should not be so lazy as to not go to the camera. IF this girl is cheating a player, she will do the same to the house. You should want to keep your games honest. This would never happen at the WYNN! They would go to the camera immediately.
If running it twice doesnt change the EV then would running it so many times you run out of cards change the EV? Of course as the cards come out there are less in the deck
Therefor running it twice does change the EV
The more times you run it, the closer you get to realizing the expected value. But the EV itself doesn't change.
No, the EV does NOT change.
Another issue of miscommunication like the dealer thought you taking your chips back was calling her all in?
I think the hero got a point here.. if the dealer and villain didn’t confirm if its all-in then we have a problem. Same as last night when I played a 1-3 game in Capitol Casino downtown Sacramento, I’m $290 eff in a cutoff w/ 6c9c, folded to me from UTG then I RIF $15 Btn & SB folded and villain in BB called ($325 eff). Flop came 5s6s7s villain check I bet $25 Bb called, turn 7h Bb checked.. and I bet $70 villain called again and river is Ah. Villain check 1 last time & I moved all in $180. Villain didn’t snap called and think for about 2 mins and he said I would like to see your hand but didn’t said “call” and he show his card 8d8h and I thot he folded and the dealer didn’t confirm it too that he called and I show my hand and thot the dealer will move the chips to me but have it to the other guy. And I said he need to say call and you need to confirm it right? And both didn’t say anything.. and say what the hell is goin on?!
Sorry the villain's hand is still live even if he showed it to you, as long as it's not in the muck it's still in play. You should NOT have showed your hand. If you showed your hand prematurely with better hand, the other guy would just fold.
@@Trust_but_Verifyhe didn’t say it and verbally “call” my all-in and just show his card.. you think theres no issue in there? You can show ur cards even if you fold right?
@@Jo2lentino1981 Most casinos do not have rules that exposed hands are dead. People can say I fold and show the hand, or vice versa. He could be showing his cards to see your reaction and decides what to do.
Yeah.. both parties I think learned their lesson.
Another way to protect yourself. Request to get the pot correct before running out the rest of the cards. Ask dealer to pull in all the money before he turns over any new board cards.
I do this in no limit all the time. Protects against going north angles and protects against someone running off with “their” chips.
It should be either ~400 or ~900 imo. Either the $500 chip was in play or it wasn't. If it was in play, the all in action was accepted. Understood that he asked the dealer how much was the all-in, but that is not good enough. Need to make yourself heard and to stop all action before cards are dealt to figure out how much more is left to call particularly if it is enough to fold on the flop (not likely here for $150 more). If this had been done, there would be no need for a dispute and potential angle
He said “pot” before he confirmed her stack size so he’s in the wrong.
how is the dealer not answering his questions? what kind of cardroom is this?
Go to the cameras. She either had it, or snuck it on
Rumor is the additional $150 is now the property of “Destiny”, a 5’2” young lady with a big juicy peach who works at Spearmint Rhino.
Was her name Alec Torelli?
Big O is THE game now ?
The hero should have paid more attention to her chip stack.
In every casino I've seen a $500 chip, they're larger than the lesser value chips. Wouldn't that appear quite easily in a stack if she meant to jam?
Asian angler move. I play quite a lot and have only seen that move once of adding a hidden big chip and it was also an asian woman. I play in Germany, where you might imagine playing against Asians is more rare than USA. She hid a golden chip in a stack of yellow 20s.
I would assume for the most part the casinos are never going to look at the cameras for player issues. The cameras are there for the casino security not the players.
That's not really true. I've seen them resolve poker player issues using cameras on several occasions. The casino has an interest in the integrity of their games (yes, even poker) because they are licensed and because they don't want a reputation as a room that doesn't care if people get cheated.
@crushlivepoker if the logic is the all in was unclear or unannounced, and hero is potentially getting free rolled for that $150 from a palmed $500, then he is by default being free rolled for the ~350 difference of the $750 pot sized bet and what he saw / tried to confirm. As in, villain loses and doesn't deposit the chip, hero wins $400. Hero loses and is out guaranteed $750, more if he gets guilted. I feel like if he thought he was being cheated (and the single 500 is a potentially easy one) then floor should check the camera.
He said pot she went all in.He has to get a count before acting.
If the villian raised the callers pot bet on the flop, why did they run it out without him confirming a call? If I was in the villians shoes and not hiding the $500 chip, I would have cetainly made sure he called before proceeding. The dealer seemed to drop the ball many times this hand.
What if hero said on flop all in instead of pot does that now mean he only owes 400? Seems like cameras should be used to see how much she had left, he shouldn’t owe pot if she didn’t have pot left during the hand.
Not sure how we can believe the whole story when the details don’t add up. How has everyone glossed over the amount of villain’s initial raise? Her raise is to a max of $265. Where did the $350 come from? If you can’t give the most basic of details correctly, how are we to think all other details are accurate?
Caller opens to $75, villain can 3 bet to $350 because
3x the previous bet ($75) is 225, plus what’s in the pot ($75 (in between caller),$25,$10,$5) adds to $340 but in kings room 5/10/25 they round small blinds up from 15 to 25 to make pots easier to calculate.
I don’t recall you mentioning that there was a flat in between. If there was then yes but I don’t think you said so.
The caller specifically said he opened for $75. $265 is villain’s max bet based on what information was given.
One more thing. Unless i'm missing something. Shouldn't it be pretty easy to notice a single 500.00 chip in a stack that short? I don't know shit obviously as I wasn't there but can't help but feel like there's a chunk missing from this story. Anyone else getting that?
How does "No one say anything??"
I would have expected Bart to catch this but isn't it way more likely the caller didn't count the opponents stack properly compared to the likelihood of a player adding on chips in the middle of a hand. Its unbelievably arrogant to dismiss a mistake on your side and just assume cheating, like ive never seen anyone even attempt to cheat like this, and most people playing live poker probably haven't but we all have miscounted our own stacks and opponents stacked before, you see it everyday.
The dealer was the one adding the 500.
What's weird to me, and doesn't make sense, is the caller saying he asked the dealer twice if the villain was all in and saying the dealer didn't give him an answer. That's odd to me. Very strange for a dealer to just sit there and not answer a question like that not once but twice. I am left wondering if that exchange really happened or not. A $500 chip can be simple to miss, and I wonder if it was there the whole time, and the caller just didn't see it.
This is when I wish someone else from the table, not involved in the hand, was here to confirm this stuff.
If she only called 400 of his higher bet and it turns out she actually had more chips. Her hand should be dead after she shows more chips and the video confirms. The floor should have checked the video. Especially after they allowed him to take the extra back out.
Wouldn't the dealer slide an "All in" chip/card at her if she shoved on the flop? Is that not standard practice at casinos?
I don’t know how relevant is this but hero raise $75 and re pot comes to $265 not $350! So total pot is $570 here.
I don’t think we heard a true story.
It proves she added the chip after Bart... How is that not an issue? If she threw more than pot out, then he would need to call... He never said call because she didnt raise...
Dealer deserves 2 KITN for not answering question, and one for not verifying she was all in or not.
likely in bed with the villain.
If you’re going to call and she has less than one pot size bet, I would repot to make sure it gets in. Hero said pot and she called so even if hero didn’t see the 500 chip, it’s not her all in unless she raised his pot bet. Horrible job by the dealer for not controlling the action
The floor should have gone to the camera and the villain is a sexist.
The part of the caller’s story that doesn’t make sense is that he said he asked twice whether she was in for $400, and both times no one said anything and he got no answer. If I asked the dealer twice how much is it, and they just sat there staring at me, I would be like EXCUSE ME can you count it for me please? After getting no response why would you immediately start discussing whether to run it once or twice? Doesn’t add up to me.
He didn't start, the villain asked him to run it once or twice (deflection). Caller should have not answered her question but resolve the pot question first.
Just to be clear -- if she just sat down with $1k, plays and loses just one hand, and then she's playing a pot where her effective stack is $1,200, where'd she suddenly end up with $350 pre and ~$900 OTF? She's insinuating she both added a single $500 chip and then it mysteriously wasn't in the pot after hero potted the flop and then showed up after showdown? If this isn't an angle (which honestly it probably is, you can get a massive edge being enough of a scumbag to do this), she very slimily added $500 and didn't say anything, nor did she answer the question "is she all-in?" which was asked twice.
Seems like the dealer was in on it with her. Be careful out there and always confirm.
I get that the guy said pot but I really understand and I'm confused as well as to how the hell they're not making sure that people aren't sneaking chips onto the table when they know they're winning which is a serious cheat!?!?
You just have to watch people at the table, especially when you're in a hand with them.
It's clearly a scam on her part. The dealer clearly knew what she was doing and their lack of response was calculated. They were either in on it and will get some of that money, or is simping/man-hating (depending on dealer's gender) in the girl's favor on purpose. And if a guy ever has a conflict against a girl, especially at the poker table, the floor will always take her side. That's just the way it is.
Caller was only going to win the 400. Should only have to pay that.
Point #2 - caller didn't call her all-in and board runs out. Is there a case to rerun the board?
There's not enough discussion of the fact that the caller took some of his chips back when he thought it was only $400. That might be the reason why the table turned against him.
Isn't it the dealers job to answer his question about how much the bet is? I don't get this.
Caller got angled and was at a table full of simps
Double suited is 100% of the time a raise. Single suited is a pretty good candidate to rip it some of the time, at least
This is an absolute cluster F. If the caller is giving an accurate telling the dealer is incompetent, but at the same time the caller shouldn't just move on to how many times to run it when no one answers his questions. It's your responsibility to understand the action. The casino really should've checked the cameras. If a player is alleging something illegal like that, it's their job to see if they have what happened clearly on tape. I'm very skeptical of the caller's description tbh.
It also doesn't make sense that the dealer or villain didn't say anything when he's pulling chips back out of the pot.
I think him trying to only pay $400 is an angle. Him not understanding or completely verifying her total is not on her. Owing the pot bet as it wasn’t clear she shoved is fair but him thinking he should only owe 4 is where I would take issue. He is definitely lying about not keeping the $500 had he won! Haha
Yall got this wrong.
If she had $900, and did not ship it all into the pot, or say all in/raise/pot, she called the $750 only, meaning the dealer technically pre exposed future cards without action being completed on the streets where she had $150 back, meaning they would have action on the street after the bet, then need to re run the cards if they shove the last $150.
If she only had $400, well he owes $400 only.
I don't understand how a dealer doesn't confirm the 400 question twice, seems like that probably didn't happen. I thought his bet was 800, if so that's it.
You’re telling me the dealer just stared into the sky after you asked them TWICE? Why did you say you prefer to run it once? Instead of saying , you didn’t answer me….. no dealer just completely ignores that question. They look directly at you when it’s your turn.
Many red flags in OP story. You said you remember clearly the order of her chips coming out 2 black chip follow by 3 green chip follow by 1 black chip and 1 green chip. And you know this because you took notes after the hand was over? You mean you took notes after the incident is over? This logic makes little sense to me.
If you are that observant to clearly remember the exact way the chip was thrown out in that specific order, then you should have no problem counting her stack visually and putting out the correct 400 without needing to ask the dealer to confirm it. Sounds super sus to me.
Also the just call pre-flop after she already committed half her stack and if you call the money is going in regardless with half pot left makes very little sense. This action only slows down the game, you know you’re committed after calling anyways, you even donk jammed the flop yourself. This line of action you took only slows down the game and was what created this situation in the first place.
I don’t believe your story one bit dude, too many plot holes
Gotta get the Money right before you table your cards to prevent that angle... sucks but its the only thing you can do to protect yourself vrs cheaters... and ya never know who the cheaters are.