ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
#10MinuteTalk
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ส.ค. 2024
- Polymer Vs. Metal Magazines. Is one better than the other? If so, why? Jimmy and Mark tap into frequent magazine user/competitive shooter/Military and LE Account Manager/amateur historian, Adam Maxwell, to get his take on the pros and cons of each. Sometimes, to get the answers we seek, you have to go back to the beginning. And for Adam, that is always “The Cold War”.
As always, we want to hear your feedback! Let us know if there are any topics you'd like covered on the Vortex Nation™ podcast by asking us on any one of our social media platforms and using #VortexNationPodcast.
Follow Vortex Nation Podcast on Instagram:
vortexnationpodcast
As "Cold War" Paratroopers, we considered our magazines as a critical part of our weapon system. We learned how to disassemble and maintain the magazines to the same degree as our rifles and pistols. All of them were metal. We carried the Bandoliers for reloading our magazines and retained the stripper adapter to enable faster loading of the magazines.
Your leadership failed you. I had been in units too where supply and commander thought the same dumb ideas. They have been and always were disposable and should be replaced as needed.
Right there with yea. The metal magazines just makes more sense , easy to maitain.The plastics mags I dont even think you can take them apart just to clean them.
Magpul first made the anti tilt followers as an upgrade to the green followers that had been in use since the 90's. The DOD ended up stealing the design and farming out the construction which ended up becoming the tan followers shortly after. That is probably why they decided to get into a mag game. We were buying brownells mags with magpul followers for units going on deployment in 04/05.
OMG this is totally fascinating. I can’t believe it took me this long to find this channel
M855 (steel penetrator) was used in the U.S. military in the early/mid 1980's. It was designed by the Belgians and the M249 SAW needed this due to its higher twist rate. Additionally the Marine Corps adopted the M16A2 during this time frame and it also used a higher twist rate (1/7) than the M16A1 (1/12).
Titling followers were an issue prior to the M855A1. The old black followers from the 1970s had an issue, which brought about the green follower. The M855A1 having a steel tip, required a magazine that would present the round at a better angle to the feed lip so that the steel tip wouldn't impact the feed lips. Thus the Gen 3 PMAG and the 4th Generation of the USGI magazine (which has a blue follower).
The reason that polymer mags are better is that the feed lips are flexible, while aluminum feed lips, once deformed, will retain that deformity.
The Gen 3 PMAG was designed to fit the H&K 416, along with other European weapons that could take STANAG mags. Additionally it was designed to aid in feeding the M855A1 round for US weapon systems. The Gen 2 PMAG had issues working in the H&K 416. There was an EMAG designed prior to the Gen 3 PMAG that fit the H&K 416, but once the Gen 3 PMAG was designed, it went away as there was no longer a need.
I remember back around the time m855a1 was introduced and made official there were a ton of people complaining about how the new tip in the cartridge will not only tear up mags but actually eat the feed ramps in the barrel extension as well as beat up the tapered point of the chambered. Was this ever rectified? You seem to know your stuff so figured I'd take the time to ask..... I won't say how but I was able to get my hands on 500 rounds of the stuff yet I've fired maybe 30 rounds due to paranoia of hurting the barrel in any way. All functioned flawlessly and was absolutely shocked how accurate it was in my 1:7 FN chrome lined upper.
18 minutes well spent. Thanks gentlemen.. 'The beauty is in the details'.
My favourite mags... good ones 'On Sale'. I have a couple of Metal Mags and a few PMags for MSR in 5.56.
Still kind of shocked at the $160.00 price tag for an extra mag for the PRS 'toy'.
James Paris Lee designed the detachable box magazine back in 1870s. Magazines were expensive during the depression was another big reason for the M1 having a en bloc clip instead of a magazine. Up to the AR15 makes were all steel. The AR used aluminum. M16 are not disposable but durable expendable, you do reuse them when you can. Soldiers been doing that since WWII, not Somalia. Israel used the Orelite mags and Canada had the polymer Thermold mags back in the late 80s.
MagPul developed a better follower (tan) for the Army but the Army reversed it so they didn't pay royalties. That lead to MagPul developing their own magazine.
I own piles of pmags, steel and aluminum GI mags, and lancer mags. They all work great. Why settle for one when you can have them all?
If you guys are still doing talks about different cartridges, I would suggest the 35 Whelen or the 400 Whelen
I second that!
Ive had feed lips strech on 2 Pmags and one of them was in the gun.
PLEASE GET A POLYMER EXPERT ON!! Seriously, that would be so cool.
I use both, lately been favoring metal mags(Okay Surefeed).
Please do a #10MinuteTalk with Mr. Ryan Muckenhirn about the mighty .222 Remington.
Mags or Mags, if you like metal use it, if you like polymer use it. If they work reliability in the weapon, then that is the one. I have a G3 clone (PTR-91) and metal mags are less than six dollars, but polymer or "Theramold" are three times the price. Metal and Polymer mag all fail most times its age/use, and operator failure to clean them.
The whole spam collection lmao
Magpul, Lancer, USGI are all good.
Anything ProMag is garbage.
This is just like polymer case ammo today. It’s starting to get introduced but it will likely be adopted by the military and other than reloaders we will never look back.
USGI Aluminum Style Magazines For My AR’s For Sure Steel E German Mags For AK’s 😀
I'll use okay industry magazines until the day I die.... I know the company wont be making magazines anymore.... That's why I just purchased 90 of them, 30 black, 30 brown, 30 gray.
Why I agree polymer magazines are better I prefer to use metal magazines with the Magpul springing forward kits make them more reliable
"You can't even male a viable lunch and you made plastic" LMAO that one made me chuckle!!!
I still have a number of Vietnam surplus mags (20 round) that I still use and they are fine. They all have original springs and followers and are very worn but they still work and are probably 60 years old and used in combat. Hard to argue against that kind of durability. It will be interesting to see how plastic ones hold up over decades. I am guessing my Vietnam era ones will still be fine after the plastic ones are long in the trash can.
Meanwhile in the 2000s magazines from the 1990s were found to be worn beyond redemption. The only reason those 20 rounders survived was because they were removed from service.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD My point being that I have been using them since the 70s and they are fine. If you think Pmags will last 60 years you are wrong, they are literally designed to fail at the lip where it is obvious the magazine is damaged and needs replacement.
You will have a tough time convincing me that a steel or aluminum magazine will wear out faster than a plastic one. I took too many materials classes in school to not know this to be fact.
@@_Coffee4Closers They've "existed", but they must have not been used very hard. Aluminum magazines in service had a ton of problems. One of the sources for the myth that ARs are unreliable. Those mags had to be taken out and veterans wrote articles asking current service members to try and identify old mags and retire them because some were being reintroduced into service rather than disposed of. Again, they were originally meant to be disposable. They'll work if taken care of, but magazines that were kept in service sustained a lot more abuse than surplus that was retired because the 20s were replaced by 30s.
I'd appreciate you not try to put words in my mouth. I've not said anything about polymer. If you can't have a conversation without creating ghosts to argue against I'm not interested.
Neither polymer or aluminum magazines will wear out at a measurable rate. Cases are extremely smooth on the outside. What can happen is bending, and aluminum magazines can bend without the damage being visible. That's all.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD OK, not putting words in your mouth. This entire thread is about polymer magazines versus metal ones That is the issue I have been addressing the entire time. I already said the magazine lips can be bent and that's why polymer ones are designed to break at the feed lips so it's obvious. Bent metal feed lips can be straightened if needed, polymer lips broken off can't be. If you are collecting magazines for long term ownership and plan of passing them down to your family members, the steel and aluminum ones will still be working 100 years later for most civilian shooters. The polymer ones won't be. Whether you like it or not that is what this video and thread are about.
@@_Coffee4Closers Bent metal feed lips being straightened kept damaged magazines in service for longer than they should have. A lot of unreliable magazines were caused by these "quick fixes" that made them harder to detect, but caused occasional misfeeds. They should have been stomped on to permanently disfigure them and made sure to never be issued to anyone else again.
My children will be able to buy their own mags. Magazines are wear items.
SkS mag broke, day one, still works like the SkS does. Everytime.
What no mention of clear polymer mags?
How about a 10 minute talk on the 338 Federal?
I had my guys put their empty mags down their bdu shirt LBE belt keep them from falling out ... had the same resupply issue even after taking mags from support folks. Still have 20 plus GI mags with 100 mph tape quiet band and pull tab
Quiet band ? So they don’t make noise against each other in carrier ?
@@davidb9323 exactly
Vortex nerds did their research.
Honestly magazine springs cant be hard to aquire and replace for magazines.
Lancers have been my favorite ar mags for quite some time now.
Big fan of metal feed lips.
Where does the Thermamold mag come into play? I recall owning Thermamold before Magpul. Thanks for the info.
Yup, Thermold was an endeavor by the Canadian military which was tried for a minute but found not to be tough enough at the time. Magpul got the polymer blend as well as the dimensions right afterwards making them an all around tougher and more reliable next gen polymer mag.
Do you know where I can find some 7mm-08 ammo, I can’t seem to find any.
And now we have 30rd medium coyote tan Pmags being Standard issue for the USMC
I, like everyone else, love the M1 Garand. Could someone please site a place that I could learn about the original M1s having box magazine? Every reputable publication I have read all say it was designed with the en bloc and for .276 caliber. Maybe I missed something?
The generals of the time said magazines would introduce dirt and get lost by grunts...
But why is the vid 18 minutes long? Thanks for covering the topic.
I own zero aluminum mags. I was given a mossberg brand 556 mag that didn’t work, so that was all I had to go off of. That and the raving reviews about polymer mags (namely magpul). Thanks to this video I am buying aluminum mags after this comment
Okay industries are great metal mags
Brownells aluminum have worked real well for me so far. Just 1.5 years experience so far.
There are two brands and two brands ONLY to stick by with aluminum and steel magazines. Those are my favorite okay industries and then duramag. Everything else isn't worth the trouble, trust me. I usually stick with okay mags but if I want any steel mags I go with duramag.
Sam Wainwright, the businessman fond of saying "Hee-Haw" in the movie It's a Wonderful Life (1946)
If I had the $ I would run nothing but HK mags. The one I have is a tank and I love it
NO the M1 never had a box magazines in its original design, the change to keeping your magazines was inplace in the 1970 's we were issued 6 20 round magazines and loose ammo. I know we had to re count our ammo every time we came back to barracks. If a magazines went bad we needed to turn it in, damaged during a mission you just called it lost. We didn't want to lose any as ammo was given out in green bandolers and packed in ammo boxes that way.
Why is the title 10 minute talk but the video is 18 minutes?
I much prefer my stainless or surplus aluminum mags.
ETS and Lancer are my go to mags I have some some hex and magpul ones as well but hex mags even though they have a warranty I dropped the mag and it broke on the seam. Haven't had a pmag break as of yet
I wanted to like ETS mags so badly but the springs go bad EXTREMELY fast. Mine all ran perfectly reliable but the second you hit the point of where spring tension starts to go they become malfunction machines. If I had to put a number on it I would say anywhere around 160 to 300 rounds, maybe 500 max. Since leaving ets I switched to okay industry magazines and have never looked back. My oldest okay mag has seen over 2k rounds and spring tension is still somehow stronger than new pmags.
@Arcana well I'm up there in round count haven't failed me yet
“Advent of the assault rifle” lol
Look, most don’t even know this but magazines really are disposable as even the US military states it too. Polymer magazines WILL NOT last a life time as polymer deteriorates, chips and breaks off and IS affected by the weather but metal mags will not deteriorate, chip or break apart. It’s already proven that polymer mags do not hold up well in high humid cold places. Duramag SS (stainless steel) are simply THE BEST!
What about the polymer follower in those metal magazines?
Will the polymer follower not deteriorate?
Please do your own research and you’ll have the answer to your question. Followers are made up of different composites than the Magazine bodies but all synthetics have their weaknesses so I’d buy extra followers as it’s cheaper to replace a follower than the whole mag. IMO, Duramag SS are #1 then come Magpul.
this is over blown, a typical gun owner have crap tons of both. metal or polymer don't matter, just grab whichever you want from the stockpile, they all work very reliably nowadays. spend more time enjoying the shooting sport, don't waste time worrying about things that don't really matter.
I think it's generational. The adults in the 1980's and 1990's were born in the 40's or 50's and they grew up playing with metal toys. Metal Tonka's, metal cap guns, metal everything, and their toys lasted their whole life. Then their kids got plastic toys that broke on boxing day, so when they saw plastic creeping into the gun industry, they just wouldn't buy the gun if it had plastic parts, because their fathers rifle from the 1920's was still in perfect working condition because it was all steel and wood. The generation that grew up playing with plastic guns don't mind plastic parts nearly as much. They actually imbrace them. Synthetic stocks, plastic mags, plastic parts on scopes, no problem. The current generation of kids from the Millennium on, grew up never touching an actual toy guns, but murdering millions virtually every week. Their preferences in 20 years may be scary.
Didn't even bring up stainless mags C products defense 7.62x39 ar mags
Metal
They are highly collectible!
Mark...Oh, Really$$$$$.
Not really, I don’t know.
Mark... Damn it!
Coming from a plastics and injection molding background, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. The issue was the GI mags were aluminum and very thin, not that they were "metal". This is like saying my plastic water bottle is better than a soda can.
All polymers creep under stress. Your plastic mag will stretch and crack. The modern thicker stamped steel mags are the shiznit. Those things will live dang near forever and can be bent back into shape if damaged. Behold the "magic" of steel.
Soldiers bending metal feed lips was precisely what lead to problems with reliability by maintaining out if spec magazines in rotation.
If damaged, it should be disposed of or marked and only used for inducing misfeeds in training.
@Lets Go Brandon I agree, what you’re saying aligns with what I’ve learned from others experiences, and from the testimony of troops in the field...steel magazines are the most reliable and longest lasting.
So……as taxpayers we should all have 100 aluminum magazines provided by the government that were disposable?
Polymer mags is like a foreign product crappy metal mags is macho and American with quality metal mags are smoother to load and hold better if they fall loaded
A poly mag better suited for stress? Thats a bunch of crap!
Plastic is junk, i own both.
I like my polymer mags but push comes to shove I am taking my DuraMag SS mags to be more reliable and long lasting. Not totally scientific but you can see VSO gun channel do testing and why he only uses metal.
SS Metal mag is the way to go!
That was a sponsored video. Nothing wrong with it, but someone in the comments pointed out that all manufacturers game their tests.
Some mags fail when driven over with a truck while loaded. So they drive over it while empty. Some mag fail while empty. So they test them loaded.
Some fail when the test is done on concrete, so they do the test on soft dirt.
This is basic marketing. The manufacturer picked the tests that made their product look good.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD totally understand that but the strength of SS vs Aluminum vs Polymer feed lips still holds true. I also have experience with Pmags flaring out causing double feeds and failure to feed. Also the metal baseplates will bend when they slip out and not break. This has only happened on some cheap mags I bought never had issues on my DuraMags or other better quality mags
Given the likelihood of the mags being banned by Biden, I'm only buying steel ones so that I don't have to worry about my grandfathered mags wearing out.
the feed-lips on loaded aluminum and steel mags will out last polymer.
HeeHaw
338-284 KCG CANADIAN!!!!!!
P MAG P MAG PMAG........PMAGS.....................
The younger generations are going to be absolutely screwed when they realize that they grew up in an engineered disposable society and the endless supply they are accustomed to eventually stops. Magazines whether they are plastic or metal are only disposable when they can no longer be repaired...making metal, especially steel magazines more longer living.
I like pizza
Nice to watch Millennials learn some new info that's not new...🤣
Mark is flattered, but he's not a millennial... lol
Fudds: These magazines suck!
Fudds a few decades later: Wow, these magazines are great!
Why are you calling this program 10 min. if you,r constantly going longer then 10 min. Call it better 15 min or even better 1000 seconds talk )))
I bet you’re really fun at parties.
You must be relatively new around here - Welcome! All of our “10 Minute Talks” go over 10 minutes. It’s kind of our thing :)
Ugh
Encyclopia reciters 👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾
i will put my aluminum mags, all 93 of them up against your polymer mags and 100 years from now my aluminum mags will be usable and all of your plastic mags will be in the recycle bin.
338-284 KCG CANADIAN!!!!!!
338-284 KCG CANADIAN!!!!!!
338-284 KCG CANADIAN!!!!!!
338-284 KCG CANADIAN!!!!!!!