The worry from Pastor Cal about the sex was that Chris told Paige that he wasn't attracted to her right after the wedding, was going to have a baby, and was considering going back to the baby mama. He was also emotionally and verbally manipulative. This was not weeks or months in, but days in. A lot of people would leave or distance themselves after that, but Paige didn't. All the experts wanted her to leave, but she stayed, kept filming, and having sex with him throughout the entire process. I think everyone, viewers included, were worried about her well-being and not understanding her thought process. It's one thing to keep having sex because you like it and there's nothing attached, but I think she believed sex would keep him close to her.
But like pastor cal isn’t a viewer he’s supposed to be helping her so how does it help her for him to shame her for that? A lot of people have sex with partners who are abusive to them. If they went to therapy and their therapist did that how would that not just further make them feel isolated. Also I think it’s really funny people genuinely think the “professionals” on this show wanted her to leave him. They may have acted that way for the audience but they are obviously going to be on the shows side of getting more interesting content. I remember the last couple on this show Dr Honda talked about; Micheal and Michaela (? I can’t remember her name) and the man was a complete compulsive liar and she alerted the show that he basically tried to *coerce* her into having sex the night after the wedding and yet ALL the experts were pushing her to keep giving it a try. That was a potentially dangerous situation for her and yet the show treated it like regular drama. This show does not care about the well-being of the cast members on the show
Exactly. I don't understand why you would allow yourself to be intimate with someone who makes it known to everyone that he doesn't find you attractive?
Pastor Cal made that face because Chris had a literal panic attack the morning after their wedding (after sleeping with her twice) because he wasn't attracted to her. He constantly dogged her appearance to anyone who would listen. I probably would have had the same reaction if she told me she was still sleeping with him.
Girl we are on the same page. You do have to realize Dr. Honda can be bias culturally and gender-wise. Its a tv show. Its created for entertainment not real life. The pastor is trying to make the girl safe.
Dr Honda says it's the equivalent of a first date and I doubt he'd advise people to have unprotected sex on a first date, but then uses marriage as a reason that they should be. I think he struggles with the nontraditional duality of this show. Pastor Cal might be the only one with Paige's interests at heart in the scenario. 😣
Pastors and therapists would see this differently. Pastors tend to encourage a couple to stay together because they see a married couple as a pair that vowed to God they wouldn't let anyone split them apart ("let that which God has joined together, let no man put asunder"). A therapist is impartial and sees divorce as an option. But even Cal wants this trainwreck over because he sees the games Chris plays. LOL
I think Chris acts in front of the camera like he doesn't like Paige in order for his ex to see it and take him back, he also doesn't want to burn the bridge with Paige in case him and his ex don't work out, therefore the whispering. Paige is a backup plan :(
Chris wanted to continue to sleep with Paige without any commitments. Hence, him stating he wants a divorce then immediately whispering in her ear 'sweet nothings'. This is manipulation at its finest. He said just enough to keep the lid to the cookie jar open. He knew what he was doing and he strummed her like a guitar. Not everyone has good intentions Dr.Kirk. You know that! I admire that you tried to see the best in this situation but he is a big player. I hope she has healed from this situation.
I think there are some layers of complexity that are either going unseen, or unacknowledged. Generational trauma, from being treated as chattel to color- and featurism, creates special issues around black women--especially dark-skinned black women--and our bodies. Consenting to unprotected sex with an expectant father who has repeatedly told you he doesn't find you attractive and is still "in love" with and more respectful of his more Eurocentric looking ex (on national TV) has different implication for Paige than it might a woman of a different race or complexion. The fact that Chris and his friends felt perfectly comfortable and eager to discuss how nice his new wife's ass was, and nothing else, speaks volumes about the value they (and by extension, society) placed on her. That, rather than a moral judgment weighed against Paige, seemed to me the subtext of their conversation and Pastor Cal's reaction.
I agree but is she dumn ? she's not a little girl , she could have made better choices. Seems like she let things happening to her .. He's not even that great , eww
Chris told everyone she was unattractive including her. He IS a piece of work. As you saw toward the end. There was a lot of degrading stuff Chris did in a short period time that led Cal to express disappointed when she said she continued to have sex with him. There's more. 🙄On a lot of these shows the life coaches/counselors etc don't take an impartial approach.
But why would you as a counsellor react like that. How is that a healthy environment for the client? Clients don’t want to feel judged by their therapists. If they’re not acting as therapists I think it’s find but the show makes it seem like they are basing their opinions of scientific fact when they really are not
I think it's more of a protecting vibe than a shaming vibe. I have expressed a similar view to my friend who continues to try with a guy that has put hands on her, had another GF the whole time and, emotionally manipulates her with his mental health.
If you read professional advice about how to help victims of domestic abuse, they say it’s really important not to shame them and push them to leave. They say it’s better to let them know you’re there if they need help.
As a person in an abusive relationship this protecting vibe made me want to protect my abuser because I was like you don’t know what he’s been through etc or make excuses for him and myself. Now I see where my friends were coming from and I get the feeling of frustration they felt seeing me in that position and thinking tough love/truth would help me but it made me bury my shame and lie about how bad things were. So as much as it’s easier to be like wtf are you thinking, you deserve better I learnt it made me and other friends stay in the abuse longer. It’s a crazy mental world to be trapped in.
But she's not even the one in the relationship with him, he's got a whole girlfriend and has done for a couple years. I would never shame her and haven't, but I also cant lie when she asks my opinion or wants to speak to me about him. I'm the one that picks up the pieces each time, which I will always do, so if they are both on the phone asking for my opinion I will tell them.
@@noname-yx9gm I get where you’re coming from. I have been in your position before and it’s exhausting watching a person you love but themselves through situations that seem completely avoidable. It’s good that you’re not giving up even if you’re frustrated. The friends that didn’t give up, they saved me. Im sorry if my previous message came across as me judgmental of your approach. I was just sharing my story and how a similar situation affected me personally.
I think we’d like to hear your thoughts on what might be going on with Paige and her decision to continue in spite of how poorly she’s been treated not only by Chris but by the show.
@@Renitajune I mean, I wouldn’t personally, but I don’t think it’s fair to call her gross for it. I think it exposes her insecurities and probably a sheltered religious upbringing that puts men and marriage on a pedestal
Dr. Kirk, I usually always agree with you, but this is the one time where I don't and I'm really concerned that you are forgetting about the other party in this horrible equation, Paige. I think you have a blindspot in this case and as much as I hate to say it, this is my true belief. Chris should have never come onto the show if there was any inkling about his ex, especially if he just broke up with her. Most people need time to process breakups. The normal thing to do is NOT GET MARRIED WEEKS AFTER. This was also an huge oversight by the committee who makes these decisions. I will not excuse Chris of his terrible behavior and the way he treated Paige and I'm sad that you do. I still love you though.
I interpreted his comment about not wanting another man to rise his child as a territorial thing and not love for his ex. His whispering to Paige looked like an attempt to continue juggling women to me. I would love to hear about why he and his ex broke up. Wild speculation: he hates himself and desperately needs to assert some control and dominance over someone and does it through games like this. Big ego boost to get Paige to immediately change her mind after agreeing to divorce
When I watched I agreed with pastor Cal because Paige continued to sleep with him after he said he wasn't attracted to her which is confusing plus he had a baby on the way. If she got pregnant at the same time as Chris' ex her life would be difficult.
Dr. Honda, you have to look at this as a citizen. It's not about shaming, but being upset that your friend is being treated badly. I mean she is married to a stranger who doesn't find her attractive, had a fiance two weeks ago, and now has a baby on the way, and is generally unsure about about the relationship, and Paige was just all in. And it's very much like the warning signs were all there and none of them were headed.
Getting married to someone else when you're still in love with your ex is callous to begin with so Chris is definitely in the wrong. Marriage is serious and If you don't take marriage seriously, why not just go on a regular dating show? Why choose a show where you have to get married to someone?
There’s no way that Dr Honda watched every episode. I think he thinks they just left from the honeymoon… by this episode there were Weeks that had gone by since the honeymoon. He’d toyed with her emotions for weeks by the time he was saying he was leaving in this conversation. Again(for the 75th time) . I’m totally on dr Cal’s side, because he knew that Chris wasn’t into her- only wanted sex atleast until his ex took him back. Paige continuing to have sex with him would only hurt her more in the end.
Pastor Cal's face was because Chris never wanted to be with Paige. She wasn't his "type", her skin color wasn't to his liking. So yes, he was just using her for sex (and a paycheck from the show).
I think maybe Dr. Honda should address the colorism black women constsntly face from black men, we always try to talk about these problems but we get ignored
I understand that the pastor should not have shown his disappointment and judgment, but honestly, I don't think he was trying to shame her for having sex. Given the situation, having sex with someone who finds you unattractive can be detrimental and even more so if you take the risk of having his child knowing that he has another child on the way and is not interested in you. This can be detrimental to you and the "baby". I don't understand how you can't see that this situation can have very bad consequences for all parties involved.
There are a lot of black men that don’t want a dark skinned women, that’s what he’s not saying and that’s prob not a question the show asked “black, but what about skin hue?” Lots of self hate/colorism internalized in a lot of ethnic groups.
@@lavinder11 what they don’t know is that other groups of women are grossed out by the self hate inherent in them not liking someone of their own skin tone.
Dr. Kirk is like the "dr" Phil at the other side of the spectrum. He often talks about mainstream things and events like reality tv but always in a respectful ethical way that educates the listeners instead of sensationalizing it and i love that
The hectoring tone of the ‘expert’ also reminded me of Dr Phil. They have come to a view as to what the person should do and they’ll persuade them to adopt that course of action rather than trying to provide guidance. Even though he was flexible it was only in the face of total rejection of his line of argument
Ooh, we got a 💡 moment! Hallelujah! NOW you see, Dr. Honda, why we asked you to watch this show and why Chris is a piece of work! He's toying with Paige and he knows he toying with her! He just told Pastor Cal that he wants a divorce. Now that he's gone, he's saying things that he know will keep her on a leech and open to any of his advances. She's allowing it at this point and it's aggravating! He don't want to be alone on this BS ride that he's on so he wants, and is trying to make sure that he has, company. Sadly, we WILL see more of this, cause this is a normal thing for him.
I understand what you mean about them wanting the show to have a good track record, and at times I can see that, but this is not one of those cases, Dr. Honda. If anything, I feel like they don't want her to be with him but they know they can't make that decision for her to so they are asking her questions so she can realize that she don't have to stay with him. Paige does not have the art of discernment. The more she talks, the more it becomes apparent so they are trying to open her eyes to see what is really happening around her so she can make the best decision for her!. P.S. What you might not know was that even after Chris told her that he wanted to get back with his ex, they still had sex! So what is really her excuse then?
@@MsJeanneMarie lol right? It’s obviously very personal to some people. I understand to an extent why it might be triggering because I do want to see women not give men like that the time of day but it happens and it’s odd how we feel the need to turn on the woman/victim. Idk seems like maybe a little bit of internalized misogyny to me but I may be wrong (I mean do we ever feel angry at males who have sex with women who are abusive to them? Or is there something “special” about female sexuality that we feel must be guarded 🤔). Anyways it’s not confusing to me why she continued to have sex with him since she obviously took the marriage seriously. If you’re married to someone for real wouldn’t the mature and admirable thing to do would be to try and work through things? For a lot of people especially without a therapist, sex is also apart of bounding and working stuff out. It’s not shameful; honestly the only thing shameful is how much we care about it. If it’s out of compassion for Paige I don’t see how acting like her sexuality are precious jewels that she allowed him to take and now they’re worthless actually helps her.
@@PlsWaLuigiDomMe wow yes!! All of this!! It’s almost patriarchal to assume Paige doesn’t know what she wants or she wouldn’t be able to handle the consequences if she made a decision she wasn’t happy with later.
Okay, personally, I felt like Pastor Cal did come off as if he disapproved of Paige sleeping with Chris and it was justifiable. Reason being: They are going through all of those issues. Chris is continuously playing with her emotions. Continuously making her feel unwanted. Continuously thinking that the world revolves around him and he doesn't have to care about how she feels. She knows all of that, cause she's in it, but yet and still, she's still giving him access to her body. Why? Yes they are married and she holds the value of marriage to such high esteem but why is she putting herself through that? It's one thing to get beat down emotionally but it's another to be a willing participant in your own torment. She's willingly allowing it and it don't make sense
Dr. Honda hasn’t see all of that yet so he’s just going off what he’s seen up to this point. I agree with you though that Paige continuing to sleep with him after he said she was attractive and then told her about the pregnant ex wasn’t doing anything for her mental health.
My personal rule: do not have unprotected sex while going through struggles in a relationship because having a child will complicate things. I think Pastor Cal was upset on her behalf because the relationship is rocky and too much emotional stress is happening that'll effect her negatively.
@@RockyDaTherapist the weird things is, everything I said that he did, he did before the point of this sit down. Their first few days were a whirlwind and it's so weird that Dr. Honda isn't seeing everything for what it is.
Remember that Pastor Cal is a pastor NOT a therapist, big difference. Pastors tend to have more of a father figure or big brother figure that gives "Godly advice" which is VERY different from actual therapy.
As a therapist myself, I didn't take Pastor Cal that way at all. He is questioning because Chris is saying mixed things. He is saying he is not attracted to her, yet is using her body to fulfill his sexual needs. It's not about sex and the invasiveness of Pastor Cal, it's about being open and honest with your feelings. I feel like you are inserting your values or nonvalues on certain areas in your videos and then run down a trail that doesn't really apply. I love the concept, but I don't agree with your "opinions". They seem more skewed and as that of a avid watcher, than a therapist. Maybe try to stick to neutral topics, without imposing your own judgment on it. I know that can be very difficult when you can't interact with the person on screen, and ask them questions.
Amen to that! It's funny because everyone who isn't even a licensed professional in the comments can see what's going on. Definitely agree with a neutral stance.
He's attracted to her without the label of marriage. That's why he is enjoying this. He loves the drama. He's a freaking hot mess!! He needs Dr. Kirk Honda!
Participants on this show (and similar ones) have clauses in their contracts that say if they quit during filming and do not participate in the final decision day/tell-all they are fined for damages against production. The MAFS clause is rumoured to be a fine as high as $50,0000 while the cast members are paid only $1,000 per episode. Some of these super cringe situations are forced or drawn out so cast members aren't bankrupted.
If that’s true, that seems extremely exploitative. They’re paired with essentially a random person. So much could go wrong! Forcing them together longer than is healthy with the risk of extreme fines does not seem okay to me. What if someone is being mistreated, they’re then going to be fined for leaving the person who’s been harming them and they didn’t even know or choose to begin with? They’re only paid $1,000 an episode for putting their personal lives on TV yet are risking an extreme amount of money if something goes wrong with the person the “experts” match them with?
@@person18461 when one of them feels really uncomfortable, the show has given them their own place to stay or let them go back home. They just have to meet up with their spouse when its time to film, to fulfill their contracts.
At @16:23 Paige says that Chris is putting her on an emotional rollercoaster, he gives her a look, she says ‘Ok’ and stops talking. I am so uncomfortable with that interaction. It gives me serious abuser vibes like Chris is saying with that look ‘shut your mouth if you know what’s good for you’. This show failed Paige so badly. Also lol at Pastor Cal saying ‘ fight to the nail’ instead of ‘fight tooth and nail’
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who's read Iceberg Slim in these comments. Chris is only running game. His ex being pregnant isn't going to keep him from doing whatever he feels like he wants to do. Chris is a disgusting person.
My couples therapist just got angry at me and said, “if you don’t want to work on the relationship then why are you here?” And told me I must want to continue or else I wouldn’t be seeing a therapist 😬
@June Bug honestly at the time I thought he must know what he was talking about and it made me super confused. My journal entries are sad. But ironically he referred me to another therapist in his practice who DID actually help me more than any other therapist so. In a weird indirect way he ended up helping lol
@@annieclarf5367 so happy that you ended up going to someone else. That is extremely unprofessional for a therapist. Sadly their are bad therapists out there.
@@PlsWaLuigiDomMe one of the reasons people like Dr Honda being out there are so important, he’s a great example of what a good therapist should sound like
Weirdo therapist. Sounds like they were more interested in relationship longevity than the happiness of the individuals. I’m glad you found a good one in the end
But Dr. Honda, that ambivalence isn't fair to Paige. She said he was hot and cold, and he looked at her as if she was nuts. He was hot and cold. Calling it ambivalence and saying you understand it, doesn't make it fair to Paige.
Hmm Dr. Kirk, if Chris has repeatedly said he’s not attracted to Paige and wants to get back together with his ex, why would they continue to have sex? Why continue to build intimacy in such a manner? I’m so confused as to why that doesn’t didn’t factor in your analysis at all. I believe that’s where Pastor Cal is coming from. Please also note that he’s not on this show in a capacity as a therapist - but a marriage counselor instead so the dynamics are a bit different if I’m not mistaken. It’s funny because the show usually pushes the couples to have sex so this was a bit rare! Usually, a couple’s whole relationship could be a hot dumpster fire mess rife with all kinds of issues and instead of addressing them, they’ll push for sex to help bond them etc. instead 😐
The big problem I have is him saying he wanted this when he never committed to the process. If he was still sleeping with his ex up until he came on the show, he was not serious about getting married. He lied about being committed to one woman. He never opened his heart to Paige, whether he was going to be attracted to her or not, it didn't matter. Yes, he is allowed to change his mind, but his mind was made up before he ever got there.
Even before the pregnant ex-fiance debacle, Chris subjected Paige to a master class in gaslighting, and Dr. Honda, I have to think you didn't watch these episodes in order and in their entirety because otherwise l don't think you would have so willingly assumed the role of "flying monkey" for Chris. You made so many excuses for him! In fact, if you rewatch the end of this video, you'll actually witness yourself twisting wildly in all of the countertransference and projection you experienced as a result of trying to defend Chris's completely indefensible behavior. In response to some of the commenters, I don't think Pastor Cal shamed Paige for continuing to have sex with Chris. "Did you continue having sex with your spouse during this time?" is a question any counselor might ask either partner of a troubled marriage. Pastor Cal accurately picked up on Paige's demeanor when she answered that question. Her voice and posture indicated that she was already ashamed of her decision herself. Later, when, without happiness or enthusiasm, she said they had sex pretty much every day, it became clear to me that Pastor Cal's response wasn't reprimanding her sexual agency but reflecting her own incongruence between her actions and the way she felt about them now. When he said, "Paige, Paige," she even quickly responded, "I know." As for me personally, I would have quickly helped Chris solve his dilemma by immediately filing for divorce. There's a saying: "If you don't want to be treated like a doormat, stop laying on the porch. Oh, and one more thing: A baby is a good bet for a long-term source of supply, not to mention being the extension of someone's brand.
Thank you so much for this, Dr. Honda. I really needed to hear this. I haven't been sleeping and been feeling nauseous for days because I'm afraid to stand up to my father and the pressure he puts me under. This helps me so much.
Yes, Dr.Honda.He is playing her like a game. He's manipulating her emotions and he knows it. She's falling for it, and the pastor saw it. He's a player, period. He wants her incase he can't have his ex or them both, simply because it inflats his ego.
The counseling sessions seem to be more about proving a point, getting to the end, and justifying some of these awful choices the "experts" have made. I've watched MAFS for a long time. I feel like it's getting worse the last few seasons. There are people who should clearly cut their losses and they give them 'homework' to cuddle every night. 😆
It seems in later seasons that they almost purposely choose on bad match for drama. I think the experts might have something in their contracts that prevents them from not “trying” to keep the couples together. When a bad match decides to divorce they look relieved.
@@RockyDaTherapist I actually agree with this wholeheartedly. It’s so odd people think these “experts” are genuinely concerned about the well being of the cast members
@@RockyDaTherapist that is pretty disgusting, it is one thing for a producer to try to negotiate plot lines (I don’t like it or think it’s ethical), but it must be confusing for cast members to be having sessions with experts- some who have training/have taken oaths/licencing to attempt to assist and then only act in the interests of the show/drama
I think the back story is that there was advice the experts were said to advise Page not to sleep with Chris when they saw his toxicity. Saying she was not attractive. Not telling her initially about the connection with ex and the pregnancy. Everyone else i.e. producers knew but her. I'm not saying right or wrong but I think its why Pastor Cal is so dissaponted because they went against their advice allegedly. Chris was definitely using Paige for sex. IMO Also wonder if Dr. Honda has considered the difference of Pastoral Counseling and what he does. 2 different schools of thoughts I also wonder if Dr. Honda is considering the contract they sign and the money involved. Its rumored they must pay the money back if they leave the process early. Its also more likely that Chris is using the pregnancy to escape the process due to his lack of attraction. I ROTFL when Dr. Honda saw and responded to the whisper in the ear moment. Lol. Obviously, he is playing games with this woman.
I was interested in the pastoral counsellor v clinical therapy divide too and was scrolling through the comments looking to see if someone had raised it. I was surprised that a pastoral counsellor wasn’t in favour of preserving the family unit that will involve a child as opposed to a tv marriage. I wouldn’t have thought a pastoral counsellor would even want to take part in a tv show that holds marriage so lightly.
@@katiewiltshire4993 I think denomination will play a role in all the issues you raised since I imagine the Pastor would rely heavy on the bylaws and rules of his particular denomination. As we know some denominations are more strict than others and others are extremely liberal. I am unsure about Pastor Cal but I imagine he is affiliated with a very liberal church.
I think it's a normal reaction to seeing someone you care about giving themselves to someone that has no intentions on protecting or caring for them...Chris' actions proved he was not going to be good for her from day 1 and to see her keep trying was hard to watch
Regardless of our feelings of whether Paige should or shouldn't have sex with Chris, a counselor is not a friend. A friend can be expressive and share personal beliefs, a counselor should not. You should feel like it's a safe, non-judgmental atmosphere with your counselor. That makes people open up, and honestly, that should be the case with friends as well.
Agreed. Very saddened to see the comments justifying it. I think it’s either because they are projecting and mad at Paige for daring to have sex with someone she considered her husband or because a lot of people think counsellors should be shaming due to misinformation about the profession and maybe because they themselves come from a background of shame being used often?
I think it's not shaming, it's the fact that there's risky behavior that will emotionally complicate things as well as being a child into this complicated relationship. The guy doesn't know if he likes his recent wife and didn't cut ties with his previous fiance. Why should they Paige have sex with a dude who's unsure about his own feelings about her; just because they're married? She's setting herself up to be emotionally abused further because sex is pretty personal and intimate. Imagine participating in that with someone who doesn't share feelings of attraction for you and is basically using you for sex? If she's doing similar then fine but she's just as much in the dark than he is about her in respect to their relationship. She doesn't have assurance and s3x just complicates things. Maybe she thinks sex will help him see? Maybe he's good in bed? Maybe she's just trying to get hers too? Context says that Paige is doing everything in trying to make it work with the marriage and Chris just isn't putting in the same 3ffort. It's not about sex shaming or whatever, it's about bringing forth the best outcome for this committed couple. It's why Pastor Cal went against his usual values of keeping them committed and considered then to break up because for something that's meant to be forever, it will be _forever_ with a lot of suffering and I think all he's trying to do is mitigate that suffering for Paige and for Chris to solve his own issues without the expense of Paige's emotional wellbeing.
Sweet Dr Honda. You’re so untainted .. we all agree with the other doctor because we know what type of guy Chris is.I promise if you, watched more black couples/ council black couples you’d know what I mean lol.
the paternalistic, angry-at-his-kids father vibe is disappointing to me, especially given the (professional) nature of pastor cal's relationship with the cast members.
I just dont understand why they took Chris to this show if he just broke up with someone. Its like they were hoping something like this would happen and they would have their drama.
The disappointed face is that she is being used. What do you mean?! He doesn't want her to fall into Chris's manipulation. Chris said he wasn't attracted to her to first night. And yes he never intended to be with her. Don't be naive.
I typically agree with your assessments but with this couple, I strongly disagree. I think the first thing to consider is the timeline. According to an interview from one of the experts, the pre filming process takes about 6 months. If Chris and his ex were engaged three months ago, that leaves the possibility that he was deceptive throughout the entire process. Secondly, his demeanor and smiles during times he’s causing pain to others seems more like he’s enjoying it than indecision. He also stated that his anger was from the fact people were not giving him attention when the situation pertains to him. He’s neglecting how this impacts others around him and being more self centered. Lastly, He continuously shuts down conversations that could actually benefit the relationship and gaslight others reactions, specifically Paige.
It might just be my perception, but I found the counselor’s “I marry people” bit inappropriate. It’s not about you, it’s about the clients and what THEY want guidance with. If I had a marriage counselor or any professional counselor express that they basically have an ulterior motive, I’d be pissed and probably reply in a childish way lol. “Who are you? My father? >:(“ lmao.
A lot of people seem to agree with Cal's reaction to them having sex, but like Dr. Kirk, I was quite uncomfortable with it and it reminded me of the way my old catholic high school would talk about sex and the morality of it. It was supposed to be this sacred act and duty of a married couple (we were told a marriage without sex is not a legitimate one in the eyes of God). At the same time, they had this view that men are largely motivated by sex and will do anything for it, and women are in control of it and supposed to be the gatekeepers-only ''giving it'' to the man in exchange for the security of long time commitment (waiting for until marriage), and then later as a ''reward'' if the man was ''good enough''. I didn't see the original show, but it seems that Cal is only judging Paige (for giving access to her body when Chris is not treating her well enough) when Chris is sitting right there? (The consequences of treating women as the gatekeepers of sex are terrible beyond just that, it paints men as monsters with no moral code when it comes to sex, it makes women feel like they can't enjoy their own sexuality because it is just a tool to control men's behaviour, it makes women ''the guilty partner'' in cases where a couple both had sex, it means a lot of control over young women's sexuality and ''modesty'' but ''boys will be boys'', it promotes slut-shaming, and it encourages rape culture-where women are in possession of something men want and they are supposed to ''get it'' from them, often blaming the victim (for what she was wearing, for where she was, for anything and everything, since she is supposed to make sure men don't have sex).
I don’t think he’s upset about the morality is the fact that the man blatantly told her I’m not attracted to you at all and she continue to engage physically with him. I think he was trying to see if she had any insecurities, because why would you continue to have relations with somebody who told you that they’re not physically attracted to you.
❌❌❌ Chris is a colorist it’s deeper than most non black ppl can see. He’s treating her the way men in our community usually treat dark skin women. You have to do the research before you go defending ppl. & I agree with you on plaster cal tho.
I’m not going to spoil the show for Dr. Honda but the show includes some sort of a Chris and Paige story line until the very end, so please speed up the viewing of the clips. We have not gotten to the real drama yet. This is still the first course. Get to the main course please, the ending is the real treat, if you ever get to it to analyze it.
Why is pastor Cal blaming Paige more than Chris when they both had sex? Another case of putting the weight of sexual mores on women, whereas ''boys will be boys''.
You’re viewing Chris in a different light than I did watching the show. To me, it was pretty clear that Chris was not interested in a marriage with Paige after he saw her and judged her as physically less than his ideal. She seemed to be attractive enough for him to continually sleep with, just not enough to marry. And If he were in love with his ex why would he apply for this show?
I get pastors potentially have a different orientation toward the institution or marriage and sex, however it doesn't mean that his response would not have an averse effect on Paige who is seeking counsel. Worst thing you can do is to shame someone for their choices; best way to get someone running.
I wonder how much their pay and contract relies on them getting the couples to follow through to the end, bc they invest in these couples, with weddings to vacations, they probably put blame on the "experts" for any failed marriages or follow throughs, or maybe to squeeze out drama at least, idk that bothers me, but I really enjoy watching the dynamics of each couple despite all that, I would love to see more therapy and them cut in sooner than they do when they're having issues instead of letting the drama just go.. the USA really needs to see examples of good relationships
Cal is expressing his concern since they matched them and they were terribly feeling sorry about it. Paige is thinking it sex as part of holy matrimonial union while on the other hand Chris was using this thinking into that.
I think it’s important to look at their situation thru the lens of narcissism. He is careless and reckless with Paige’s feelings. He is pushing and pulling her, playing games with her emotions like cat and mouse. It’s really gross. I appreciate your open minded outlook of the situation, but I’m surprised some of these mind games don’t stand out more to you as an issue? 🤨🤔💛
Yeah ,Pastor Cal shouldn't tell her what to do or show his disapproval but lets face it, we all know what's up, including Paige. He was showing what we were all thinking. He's trash and she has low self esteem. Hope she learns from this situation.
Hi dr Honda! Do you think you could react to episode 7 (‘I’m a manipulative person’) of Trisha Paytas’ podcast My Chemical Imbalance? She discusses having traits of BPD and how she attributes it to being abusive in past relationships. Something feels amiss with that attribution but I’d love to get your take on what might be going on! Thanks, keep up the great content!
The last thing Paige needs is more shaming when she's living with someone who is gaslighting her. Pastor Cal has some outdated views that are becoming more and more apparent . He had a good style of approaching tough subjects, but he is NOT good at being objective and unbiased. If you watch Married at First Sight Unmatchables you see even more of his outdated views on sex and gender norms. Thankfully, Dr. Viviana keeps him in check.
I think Pastor Cal’s reaction has to do with his perception of what sex means/does. He’s in everyone’s business about sex and wants most of them to stay together so he’s happy when most of them “consummate [their] marriage” but since this marriage is such a disaster he doesn’t want sex to happen because he believes it will bond them. I think that is a particular type of Christian theology. Outside of that, I personally think Chris uses sex as a manipulation tool. But I don’t think he needed to shame Paige about it.
Also this show was grossly irresponsible for setting up this match up. How did Chris slip through the cracks? Because he just broke up with his fiance and can also be on married at first sight married to someone else two weeks later? How did this happen?
I do think Kirk defending Chris for the sake of giving him a fair shake would sound like good professionalism. To avoid bias. The criticism of Pastor Cal isn't because everyone sees Chris's behavior and it sounds like she's enabling him almost in sex. It did sounds as if he came at Cal from his own unvalued bias because he shared Cal's views which became apparent after he discussed it for about 5 mins. If their values were the same then fine but there apparently aren't. That's the meat of the issue. If Paige is okay with Chris and the marriage as is; and she isn't confused and concerned about the marriage then, fine. But she isn't. Chris can be indecisive but, is it just because he wasn't initially attracted; she wasn't his preference of woman; and also, that they are literally strangers then I get it. But she didn't say that she didn't find Chris attractive. She seemed open and willing to commit and do the work. Chris just seemed unsure of this scenario that would possibly be committed to the rest of his life in. Married at first sight is tricky like that because they don't know each other nor did they date to see if it would work out. (How it usually happens.) If Chris was uncertain then its unfortunate. If the experts had an impression of Chris that was misinterpreted during the vetting process and that Chris actually have his own preferences for who he wanted to be married with then it makes sense how Chris was dissatisfied with the woman he met at the altar. I thought it was race but not necessarily. His ex, in appearance is a thin and lighter complexed woman. Idk how much that factors in but I dunno too many model thin women who are looking for an average yet successful guy. In addition to his Chicagoan culture of not disclosing personal information or the value of his personal privacy, in addition to his own insecurities I doubt the million dollar wife he's looking for is looking for him back given his baggage. Just guessing. Ultimately, Chris should've been honest and cleared his baggage early on and broke her heart early by declining the marriage. It would've saved her a lot of confusion and heartbreak. Still, inthink Dr. Honda is coming at this a bit too.neutrally to see those decisions implicated and perhaps has his own bias of non-value imposed onto the situation. Maybe he's got his therapy cap on but he's gotta view this as a civilian who's had trauma and behavior that involved indecision and confusion but not a excusing of solitude to make up their mind. Indecision on important matters in a relationship I can imagine is such a frustrating thing. Idk if Dr. Honda knows Japanese but, a song that captures this frustration is: "Kawaki wo Ameku" (Crying for Rain) by Minami It's about the frustration of indecision and ambiguity in a relationship.
I think pastor Cal is viewing sex from the viewpoint of religion. He (probably) sees sex as a more “sacred” activity than casual? Like this is something two people in love do.
Probably but how do we know that Paige doesn't? She mentions that God brought them together but also the effect thatbsex has on these two people with differing values. He doesn't even find her attractive but he's having sex. It's kind of like objectification. Paige is probably okay with it because they're married but it doesn't change the fact that someone who doesn't really find you attractive is having sex with you. Its gotta be damaging and harmful, religiously viewed or not.
I appreciate your point of view on Chris before he whispered to Paige. I was waiting what you would think after that. My opinion is that he did all this for fame.
But he wasn't shaming her for having sex. Plus he is a pastor. Unlike therapist, pastors are going to he honest . Pastors are more like a father figure. Not a medical professional. Plus Pastor Cal just doesn't want Paige to get pregnant. Plus Chris is the stereotypical black man who would have unprotected sex with black women sometimes a women of the other race. Then get her pregnant. He was using for sex. I don't know if you are black but you have to understand Black culture to understand where Pastor Cal is coming from.
I like that I can disagree with you and still want to watch your videos.I think Chris only wants to be with his ex strictly because he doesn't want another man in his babies life it's a domination and toxic masculinity thing.I've seen toxic masculinity from this man before he even got married.
All I'm going to say is, people have a very strong reaction to what you're saying for a reason. I'll just allow you to continue to watch and see what you have to say further down the line. Maybe focus more on Paige? That's all I'll say lol
The doctor takes on requests but is limited by time so can't do all reactions at once. Also sometimes people just put in requests for older couples/shows :)
Because he is responding to what viewers have recently asked him to review. He is also reviewing 90DF Mohamed and Daniel from 6 years ago...that's what people have asked for.
He has actually recorded this a long time ago but it's just scheduled to go up at different times. Most people ask about 90 days or the Britney Doc, or shows like that more often so they are uploaded and scheduled for shorter intervals.
![[Live] : ONE 168 วันนี้!! "โจนาธาน vs ซุปเปอร์เล็ก"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0jIN65KgJsI/mqdefault.jpg)
The worry from Pastor Cal about the sex was that Chris told Paige that he wasn't attracted to her right after the wedding, was going to have a baby, and was considering going back to the baby mama. He was also emotionally and verbally manipulative. This was not weeks or months in, but days in. A lot of people would leave or distance themselves after that, but Paige didn't. All the experts wanted her to leave, but she stayed, kept filming, and having sex with him throughout the entire process. I think everyone, viewers included, were worried about her well-being and not understanding her thought process. It's one thing to keep having sex because you like it and there's nothing attached, but I think she believed sex would keep him close to her.
Yes! Agreed! I get Pastor Cals reaction! 🤯
But like pastor cal isn’t a viewer he’s supposed to be helping her so how does it help her for him to shame her for that? A lot of people have sex with partners who are abusive to them. If they went to therapy and their therapist did that how would that not just further make them feel isolated. Also I think it’s really funny people genuinely think the “professionals” on this show wanted her to leave him. They may have acted that way for the audience but they are obviously going to be on the shows side of getting more interesting content.
I remember the last couple on this show Dr Honda talked about; Micheal and Michaela (? I can’t remember her name) and the man was a complete compulsive liar and she alerted the show that he basically tried to *coerce* her into having sex the night after the wedding and yet ALL the experts were pushing her to keep giving it a try. That was a potentially dangerous situation for her and yet the show treated it like regular drama. This show does not care about the well-being of the cast members on the show
u hit it on the head!
Pastor Cals reaction was very inappropriate, especially if you are a person in a counselor/therapist position
@@sagenguyen8174 I think that's why I'm not bothered. He's neither. He's a confidante and advice giver. He's a pastor.
Watching the full episode, I think Pastor Cal ‘s response has to do with Chris constantly saying he wasn't attracted to her.
Agreed it was more like why continue to have sex if he doesn't want you and isn't attracted to you don't let him exploit you.
Totally! 100% with pastor Cal on this one.
Exactly. I don't understand why you would allow yourself to be intimate with someone who makes it known to everyone that he doesn't find you attractive?
@@opocoyo also for the world to hear/see no less. SMH 🤦♀️
@@nappycharm But why not blame the person doing the exploiting instead of the person being exploited?
Pastor Cal made that face because Chris had a literal panic attack the morning after their wedding (after sleeping with her twice) because he wasn't attracted to her. He constantly dogged her appearance to anyone who would listen. I probably would have had the same reaction if she told me she was still sleeping with him.
Girl we are on the same page. You do have to realize Dr. Honda can be bias culturally and gender-wise. Its a tv show. Its created for entertainment not real life. The pastor is trying to make the girl safe.
Dr Honda says it's the equivalent of a first date and I doubt he'd advise people to have unprotected sex on a first date, but then uses marriage as a reason that they should be. I think he struggles with the nontraditional duality of this show. Pastor Cal might be the only one with Paige's interests at heart in the scenario. 😣
Yeah I don’t like page for that why continue to sleep with him
STD🚩
Pastors and therapists would see this differently. Pastors tend to encourage a couple to stay together because they see a married couple as a pair that vowed to God they wouldn't let anyone split them apart ("let that which God has joined together, let no man put asunder"). A therapist is impartial and sees divorce as an option. But even Cal wants this trainwreck over because he sees the games Chris plays. LOL
I think Chris acts in front of the camera like he doesn't like Paige in order for his ex to see it and take him back, he also doesn't want to burn the bridge with Paige in case him and his ex don't work out, therefore the whispering. Paige is a backup plan :(
Most plausible explanation
Exactly! He wants to move on with his ex and have a s*x buddy on the side.
Chris wanted to continue to sleep with Paige without any commitments. Hence, him stating he wants a divorce then immediately whispering in her ear 'sweet nothings'. This is manipulation at its finest. He said just enough to keep the lid to the cookie jar open. He knew what he was doing and he strummed her like a guitar. Not everyone has good intentions Dr.Kirk. You know that! I admire that you tried to see the best in this situation but he is a big player. I hope she has healed from this situation.
I think there are some layers of complexity that are either going unseen, or unacknowledged. Generational trauma, from being treated as chattel to color- and featurism, creates special issues around black women--especially dark-skinned black women--and our bodies. Consenting to unprotected sex with an expectant father who has repeatedly told you he doesn't find you attractive and is still "in love" with and more respectful of his more Eurocentric looking ex (on national TV) has different implication for Paige than it might a woman of a different race or complexion.
The fact that Chris and his friends felt perfectly comfortable and eager to discuss how nice his new wife's ass was, and nothing else, speaks volumes about the value they (and by extension, society) placed on her. That, rather than a moral judgment weighed against Paige, seemed to me the subtext of their conversation and Pastor Cal's reaction.
Wow, very well said!
I agree but is she dumn ? she's not a little girl , she could have made better choices. Seems like she let things happening to her .. He's not even that great , eww
@@haryel5058 STD🚩
Chris told everyone she was unattractive including her. He IS a piece of work. As you saw toward the end. There was a lot of degrading stuff Chris did in a short period time that led Cal to express disappointed when she said she continued to have sex with him. There's more. 🙄On a lot of these shows the life coaches/counselors etc don't take an impartial approach.
But why would you as a counsellor react like that. How is that a healthy environment for the client? Clients don’t want to feel judged by their therapists. If they’re not acting as therapists I think it’s find but the show makes it seem like they are basing their opinions of scientific fact when they really are not
I think it's more of a protecting vibe than a shaming vibe. I have expressed a similar view to my friend who continues to try with a guy that has put hands on her, had another GF the whole time and, emotionally manipulates her with his mental health.
If you read professional advice about how to help victims of domestic abuse, they say it’s really important not to shame them and push them to leave. They say it’s better to let them know you’re there if they need help.
As a person in an abusive relationship this protecting vibe made me want to protect my abuser because I was like you don’t know what he’s been through etc or make excuses for him and myself. Now I see where my friends were coming from and I get the feeling of frustration they felt seeing me in that position and thinking tough love/truth would help me but it made me bury my shame and lie about how bad things were. So as much as it’s easier to be like wtf are you thinking, you deserve better I learnt it made me and other friends stay in the abuse longer.
It’s a crazy mental world to be trapped in.
@@cassandrahall7357 thanks for sharing your experience. I think it’s really important for people to understand what it’s like from that point of view.
But she's not even the one in the relationship with him, he's got a whole girlfriend and has done for a couple years. I would never shame her and haven't, but I also cant lie when she asks my opinion or wants to speak to me about him. I'm the one that picks up the pieces each time, which I will always do, so if they are both on the phone asking for my opinion I will tell them.
@@noname-yx9gm I get where you’re coming from. I have been in your position before and it’s exhausting watching a person you love but themselves through situations that seem completely avoidable.
It’s good that you’re not giving up even if you’re frustrated. The friends that didn’t give up, they saved me.
Im sorry if my previous message came across as me judgmental of your approach. I was just sharing my story and how a similar situation affected me personally.
I think we’d like to hear your thoughts on what might be going on with Paige and her decision to continue in spite of how poorly she’s been treated not only by Chris but by the show.
I think Paige is beautiful. It really kills me that Chris says she isn’t attractive enough, but continues to sleep with her. So gross
I know, I was thinking that too. She’s very attractive!!
She's so beautiful. Chris has some serious personal issues to be able to mistreat her like that UGH
Colorism ......
She’s gross for sleeping with him after all that
@@Renitajune I mean, I wouldn’t personally, but I don’t think it’s fair to call her gross for it. I think it exposes her insecurities and probably a sheltered religious upbringing that puts men and marriage on a pedestal
Dr. Kirk, I usually always agree with you, but this is the one time where I don't and I'm really concerned that you are forgetting about the other party in this horrible equation, Paige. I think you have a blindspot in this case and as much as I hate to say it, this is my true belief.
Chris should have never come onto the show if there was any inkling about his ex, especially if he just broke up with her. Most people need time to process breakups. The normal thing to do is NOT GET MARRIED WEEKS AFTER. This was also an huge oversight by the committee who makes these decisions.
I will not excuse Chris of his terrible behavior and the way he treated Paige and I'm sad that you do. I still love you though.
I interpreted his comment about not wanting another man to rise his child as a territorial thing and not love for his ex. His whispering to Paige looked like an attempt to continue juggling women to me. I would love to hear about why he and his ex broke up. Wild speculation: he hates himself and desperately needs to assert some control and dominance over someone and does it through games like this. Big ego boost to get Paige to immediately change her mind after agreeing to divorce
When I watched I agreed with pastor Cal because Paige continued to sleep with him after he said he wasn't attracted to her which is confusing plus he had a baby on the way. If she got pregnant at the same time as Chris' ex her life would be difficult.
well said!!
I'm unclear why this wasn't Dr. Honda's initial reaction! 2 children born in the same year to 2 different mothers.
Dr. Honda, you have to look at this as a citizen. It's not about shaming, but being upset that your friend is being treated badly. I mean she is married to a stranger who doesn't find her attractive, had a fiance two weeks ago, and now has a baby on the way, and is generally unsure about about the relationship, and Paige was just all in. And it's very much like the warning signs were all there and none of them were headed.
Getting married to someone else when you're still in love with your ex is callous to begin with so Chris is definitely in the wrong. Marriage is serious and If you don't take marriage seriously, why not just go on a regular dating show? Why choose a show where you have to get married to someone?
I think that it's one of the more pathetic attempts of "narcissist supply" that I have ever heard of.
I never post but nooooooo Dr, Honda. This man plays a role and you have fallen for it. He is horrendous
There’s no way that Dr Honda watched every episode. I think he thinks they just left from the honeymoon… by this episode there were Weeks that had gone by since the honeymoon. He’d toyed with her emotions for weeks by the time he was saying he was leaving in this conversation. Again(for the 75th time) . I’m totally on dr Cal’s side, because he knew that Chris wasn’t into her- only wanted sex atleast until his ex took him back. Paige continuing to have sex with him would only hurt her more in the end.
Pastor Cal's face was because Chris never wanted to be with Paige. She wasn't his "type", her skin color wasn't to his liking. So yes, he was just using her for sex (and a paycheck from the show).
Chris is using Paige, the show and his supposed baby mama.
I think maybe Dr. Honda should address the colorism black women constsntly face from black men, we always try to talk about these problems but we get ignored
I understand that the pastor should not have shown his disappointment and judgment, but honestly, I don't think he was trying to shame her for having sex. Given the situation, having sex with someone who finds you unattractive can be detrimental and even more so if you take the risk of having his child knowing that he has another child on the way and is not interested in you. This can be detrimental to you and the "baby". I don't understand how you can't see that this situation can have very bad consequences for all parties involved.
There are a lot of black men that don’t want a dark skinned women, that’s what he’s not saying and that’s prob not a question the show asked “black, but what about skin hue?” Lots of self hate/colorism internalized in a lot of ethnic groups.
Nah Pastor Cal has stated a few times that most of the Black male contestants don't want to marry Black women at all.
@@lavinder11 what they don’t know is that other groups of women are grossed out by the self hate inherent in them not liking someone of their own skin tone.
It's sad. Because she's probably a gentle and sweet person.
I'd really love for you to discuss the trainwreck that is Johnny and Bao on the current season of MAFS.
Yes, I'd love this!
YES. I was about to suggest them as well
Dr. Kirk is like the "dr" Phil at the other side of the spectrum.
He often talks about mainstream things and events like reality tv but always in a respectful ethical way that educates the listeners instead of sensationalizing it and i love that
Hahaha hell yeah!! I hate Dr. Phil and I love Dr. Honda!
The hectoring tone of the ‘expert’ also reminded me of Dr Phil. They have come to a view as to what the person should do and they’ll persuade them to adopt that course of action rather than trying to provide guidance. Even though he was flexible it was only in the face of total rejection of his line of argument
Ooh, we got a 💡 moment! Hallelujah! NOW you see, Dr. Honda, why we asked you to watch this show and why Chris is a piece of work! He's toying with Paige and he knows he toying with her! He just told Pastor Cal that he wants a divorce. Now that he's gone, he's saying things that he know will keep her on a leech and open to any of his advances. She's allowing it at this point and it's aggravating! He don't want to be alone on this BS ride that he's on so he wants, and is trying to make sure that he has, company. Sadly, we WILL see more of this, cause this is a normal thing for him.
Honestly, 😱I was waiting for the penny to drop for Dr Honda
@@DonInADress His face after Paige revealed what he said was priceless.
He asked the question about sex because of what Chris was telling him during their interviews.
Everytime Dr. Honda starts off defending Chris (and I don't totally blame him for it) I just say Wait for it....🤭
Same
It's those first impression that fool people. You do have to wait and see when they unravel.
I understand what you mean about them wanting the show to have a good track record, and at times I can see that, but this is not one of those cases, Dr. Honda. If anything, I feel like they don't want her to be with him but they know they can't make that decision for her to so they are asking her questions so she can realize that she don't have to stay with him. Paige does not have the art of discernment. The more she talks, the more it becomes apparent so they are trying to open her eyes to see what is really happening around her so she can make the best decision for her!. P.S. What you might not know was that even after Chris told her that he wanted to get back with his ex, they still had sex! So what is really her excuse then?
I don’t think she needs an excuse to have sex with anyone.
@@MsJeanneMarie lol right? It’s obviously very personal to some people. I understand to an extent why it might be triggering because I do want to see women not give men like that the time of day but it happens and it’s odd how we feel the need to turn on the woman/victim. Idk seems like maybe a little bit of internalized misogyny to me but I may be wrong (I mean do we ever feel angry at males who have sex with women who are abusive to them? Or is there something “special” about female sexuality that we feel must be guarded 🤔).
Anyways it’s not confusing to me why she continued to have sex with him since she obviously took the marriage seriously. If you’re married to someone for real wouldn’t the mature and admirable thing to do would be to try and work through things? For a lot of people especially without a therapist, sex is also apart of bounding and working stuff out.
It’s not shameful; honestly the only thing shameful is how much we care about it. If it’s out of compassion for Paige I don’t see how acting like her sexuality are precious jewels that she allowed him to take and now they’re worthless actually helps her.
@@PlsWaLuigiDomMe wow yes!! All of this!! It’s almost patriarchal to assume Paige doesn’t know what she wants or she wouldn’t be able to handle the consequences if she made a decision she wasn’t happy with later.
Okay, personally, I felt like Pastor Cal did come off as if he disapproved of Paige sleeping with Chris and it was justifiable. Reason being: They are going through all of those issues. Chris is continuously playing with her emotions. Continuously making her feel unwanted. Continuously thinking that the world revolves around him and he doesn't have to care about how she feels. She knows all of that, cause she's in it, but yet and still, she's still giving him access to her body. Why? Yes they are married and she holds the value of marriage to such high esteem but why is she putting herself through that? It's one thing to get beat down emotionally but it's another to be a willing participant in your own torment. She's willingly allowing it and it don't make sense
Dr. Honda hasn’t see all of that yet so he’s just going off what he’s seen up to this point. I agree with you though that Paige continuing to sleep with him after he said she was attractive and then told her about the pregnant ex wasn’t doing anything for her mental health.
I agree with you.
Seems like he was using sex as an escape from his problems and emotions, whilst also leading Paige on
My personal rule: do not have unprotected sex while going through struggles in a relationship because having a child will complicate things. I think Pastor Cal was upset on her behalf because the relationship is rocky and too much emotional stress is happening that'll effect her negatively.
@@RockyDaTherapist the weird things is, everything I said that he did, he did before the point of this sit down. Their first few days were a whirlwind and it's so weird that Dr. Honda isn't seeing everything for what it is.
And yet, I've seen these "experts" tell other couples to have sex to build attraction. So, shaming her for doing that here makes no sense.
Remember that Pastor Cal is a pastor NOT a therapist, big difference. Pastors tend to have more of a father figure or big brother figure that gives "Godly advice" which is VERY different from actual therapy.
Yeah he really was trying to protect her
As a therapist myself, I didn't take Pastor Cal that way at all. He is questioning because Chris is saying mixed things. He is saying he is not attracted to her, yet is using her body to fulfill his sexual needs. It's not about sex and the invasiveness of Pastor Cal, it's about being open and honest with your feelings. I feel like you are inserting your values or nonvalues on certain areas in your videos and then run down a trail that doesn't really apply. I love the concept, but I don't agree with your "opinions". They seem more skewed and as that of a avid watcher, than a therapist. Maybe try to stick to neutral topics, without imposing your own judgment on it. I know that can be very difficult when you can't interact with the person on screen, and ask them questions.
Amen to that! It's funny because everyone who isn't even a licensed professional in the comments can see what's going on. Definitely agree with a neutral stance.
He's attracted to her without the label of marriage. That's why he is enjoying this. He loves the drama. He's a freaking hot mess!! He needs Dr. Kirk Honda!
So he views her as a friend with benefits?
Maybe? Idk.
Participants on this show (and similar ones) have clauses in their contracts that say if they quit during filming and do not participate in the final decision day/tell-all they are fined for damages against production. The MAFS clause is rumoured to be a fine as high as $50,0000 while the cast members are paid only $1,000 per episode. Some of these super cringe situations are forced or drawn out so cast members aren't bankrupted.
If that’s true, that seems extremely exploitative. They’re paired with essentially a random person. So much could go wrong! Forcing them together longer than is healthy with the risk of extreme fines does not seem okay to me. What if someone is being mistreated, they’re then going to be fined for leaving the person who’s been harming them and they didn’t even know or choose to begin with? They’re only paid $1,000 an episode for putting their personal lives on TV yet are risking an extreme amount of money if something goes wrong with the person the “experts” match them with?
That would make a lot of sense
@@person18461 when one of them feels really uncomfortable, the show has given them their own place to stay or let them go back home. They just have to meet up with their spouse when its time to film, to fulfill their contracts.
It's like Terrace House all over again!
At @16:23 Paige says that Chris is putting her on an emotional rollercoaster, he gives her a look, she says ‘Ok’ and stops talking. I am so uncomfortable with that interaction. It gives me serious abuser vibes like Chris is saying with that look ‘shut your mouth if you know what’s good for you’. This show failed Paige so badly.
Also lol at Pastor Cal saying ‘ fight to the nail’ instead of ‘fight tooth and nail’
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who's read Iceberg Slim in these comments. Chris is only running game. His ex being pregnant isn't going to keep him from doing whatever he feels like he wants to do. Chris is a disgusting person.
My couples therapist just got angry at me and said, “if you don’t want to work on the relationship then why are you here?” And told me I must want to continue or else I wouldn’t be seeing a therapist 😬
@June Bug honestly at the time I thought he must know what he was talking about and it made me super confused. My journal entries are sad. But ironically he referred me to another therapist in his practice who DID actually help me more than any other therapist so. In a weird indirect way he ended up helping lol
@@annieclarf5367 so happy that you ended up going to someone else. That is extremely unprofessional for a therapist. Sadly their are bad therapists out there.
@June Bug and the same back to you! 🕊 🤍
@@PlsWaLuigiDomMe one of the reasons people like Dr Honda being out there are so important, he’s a great example of what a good therapist should sound like
Weirdo therapist. Sounds like they were more interested in relationship longevity than the happiness of the individuals. I’m glad you found a good one in the end
But Dr. Honda, that ambivalence isn't fair to Paige. She said he was hot and cold, and he looked at her as if she was nuts. He was hot and cold. Calling it ambivalence and saying you understand it, doesn't make it fair to Paige.
Hmm Dr. Kirk, if Chris has repeatedly said he’s not attracted to Paige and wants to get back together with his ex, why would they continue to have sex? Why continue to build intimacy in such a manner? I’m so confused as to why that doesn’t didn’t factor in your analysis at all. I believe that’s where Pastor Cal is coming from. Please also note that he’s not on this show in a capacity as a therapist - but a marriage counselor instead so the dynamics are a bit different if I’m not mistaken.
It’s funny because the show usually pushes the couples to have sex so this was a bit rare! Usually, a couple’s whole relationship could be a hot dumpster fire mess rife with all kinds of issues and instead of addressing them, they’ll push for sex to help bond them etc. instead 😐
The big problem I have is him saying he wanted this when he never committed to the process. If he was still sleeping with his ex up until he came on the show, he was not serious about getting married. He lied about being committed to one woman. He never opened his heart to Paige, whether he was going to be attracted to her or not, it didn't matter. Yes, he is allowed to change his mind, but his mind was made up before he ever got there.
Even before the pregnant ex-fiance debacle, Chris subjected Paige to a master class in gaslighting, and Dr. Honda, I have to think you didn't watch these episodes in order and in their entirety because otherwise l don't think you would have so willingly assumed the role of "flying monkey" for Chris. You made so many excuses for him! In fact, if you rewatch the end of this video, you'll actually witness yourself twisting wildly in all of the countertransference and projection you experienced as a result of trying to defend Chris's completely indefensible behavior.
In response to some of the commenters, I don't think Pastor Cal shamed Paige for continuing to have sex with Chris. "Did you continue having sex with your spouse during this time?" is a question any counselor might ask either partner of a troubled marriage. Pastor Cal accurately picked up on Paige's demeanor when she answered that question. Her voice and posture indicated that she was already ashamed of her decision herself. Later, when, without happiness or enthusiasm, she said they had sex pretty much every day, it became clear to me that Pastor Cal's response wasn't reprimanding her sexual agency but reflecting her own incongruence between her actions and the way she felt about them now. When he said, "Paige, Paige," she even quickly responded, "I know."
As for me personally, I would have quickly helped Chris solve his dilemma by immediately filing for divorce. There's a saying: "If you don't want to be treated like a doormat, stop laying on the porch.
Oh, and one more thing: A baby is a good bet for a long-term source of supply, not to mention being the extension of someone's brand.
Thank you so much for this, Dr. Honda. I really needed to hear this. I haven't been sleeping and been feeling nauseous for days because I'm afraid to stand up to my father and the pressure he puts me under. This helps me so much.
Yes, Dr.Honda.He is playing her like a game. He's manipulating her emotions and he knows it. She's falling for it, and the pastor saw it. He's a player, period. He wants her incase he can't have his ex or them both, simply because it inflats his ego.
I don't know what it would look like but I would love to see a collab with you and Observe!
Also, production gives them condoms bc these peopl are *strangers*
Chris is on a total power trip and loves being able to manipulate Paige and get away with it, keeping her on the hook. It's sad to see.
The counseling sessions seem to be more about proving a point, getting to the end, and justifying some of these awful choices the "experts" have made. I've watched MAFS for a long time. I feel like it's getting worse the last few seasons. There are people who should clearly cut their losses and they give them 'homework' to cuddle every night. 😆
It seems in later seasons that they almost purposely choose on bad match for drama. I think the experts might have something in their contracts that prevents them from not “trying” to keep the couples together. When a bad match decides to divorce they look relieved.
Yeah. I think this is spot on
I agree
@@RockyDaTherapist I actually agree with this wholeheartedly. It’s so odd people think these “experts” are genuinely concerned about the well being of the cast members
@@RockyDaTherapist that is pretty disgusting, it is one thing for a producer to try to negotiate plot lines (I don’t like it or think it’s ethical), but it must be confusing for cast members to be having sessions with experts- some who have training/have taken oaths/licencing to attempt to assist and then only act in the interests of the show/drama
I think the back story is that there was advice the experts were said to advise Page not to sleep with Chris when they saw his toxicity. Saying she was not attractive. Not telling her initially about the connection with ex and the pregnancy. Everyone else i.e. producers knew but her. I'm not saying right or wrong but I think its why Pastor Cal is so dissaponted because they went against their advice allegedly.
Chris was definitely using Paige for sex. IMO
Also wonder if Dr. Honda has considered the difference of Pastoral Counseling and what he does. 2 different schools of thoughts
I also wonder if Dr. Honda is considering the contract they sign and the money involved. Its rumored they must pay the money back if they leave the process early.
Its also more likely that Chris is using the pregnancy to escape the process due to his lack of attraction.
I ROTFL when Dr. Honda saw and responded to the whisper in the ear moment. Lol. Obviously, he is playing games with this woman.
I was interested in the pastoral counsellor v clinical therapy divide too and was scrolling through the comments looking to see if someone had raised it.
I was surprised that a pastoral counsellor wasn’t in favour of preserving the family unit that will involve a child as opposed to a tv marriage. I wouldn’t have thought a pastoral counsellor would even want to take part in a tv show that holds marriage so lightly.
@@katiewiltshire4993 I think denomination will play a role in all the issues you raised since I imagine the Pastor would rely heavy on the bylaws and rules of his particular denomination. As we know some denominations are more strict than others and others are extremely liberal. I am unsure about Pastor Cal but I imagine he is affiliated with a very liberal church.
ohhhhh for the first time we totally disagree.....
I think it's a normal reaction to seeing someone you care about giving themselves to someone that has no intentions on protecting or caring for them...Chris' actions proved he was not going to be good for her from day 1 and to see her keep trying was hard to watch
Yep, I think a lot of viewers feel protective of Paige and want the best for her after seeing how she was treated from the start
Regardless of our feelings of whether Paige should or shouldn't have sex with Chris, a counselor is not a friend. A friend can be expressive and share personal beliefs, a counselor should not. You should feel like it's a safe, non-judgmental atmosphere with your counselor. That makes people open up, and honestly, that should be the case with friends as well.
I 100% agree with you. Women already get shamed enough for our sexuality. It’s her business who she has sex with and she doesn’t need to justify it.
Agreed. Very saddened to see the comments justifying it. I think it’s either because they are projecting and mad at Paige for daring to have sex with someone she considered her husband or because a lot of people think counsellors should be shaming due to misinformation about the profession and maybe because they themselves come from a background of shame being used often?
I think it's not shaming, it's the fact that there's risky behavior that will emotionally complicate things as well as being a child into this complicated relationship. The guy doesn't know if he likes his recent wife and didn't cut ties with his previous fiance. Why should they Paige have sex with a dude who's unsure about his own feelings about her; just because they're married?
She's setting herself up to be emotionally abused further because sex is pretty personal and intimate. Imagine participating in that with someone who doesn't share feelings of attraction for you and is basically using you for sex? If she's doing similar then fine but she's just as much in the dark than he is about her in respect to their relationship.
She doesn't have assurance and s3x just complicates things. Maybe she thinks sex will help him see? Maybe he's good in bed? Maybe she's just trying to get hers too? Context says that Paige is doing everything in trying to make it work with the marriage and Chris just isn't putting in the same 3ffort.
It's not about sex shaming or whatever, it's about bringing forth the best outcome for this committed couple. It's why Pastor Cal went against his usual values of keeping them committed and considered then to break up because for something that's meant to be forever, it will be _forever_ with a lot of suffering and I think all he's trying to do is mitigate that suffering for Paige and for Chris to solve his own issues without the expense of Paige's emotional wellbeing.
He is not a counselor. He is a pastor.
Exactly my journey through this mess. He was sympathetic until the whispering. It only gets worse from here. Welcome to the Chris Ride Dr H.
Paige, get your issh and leave, girl. He is just playing games. Time to go!!
I'm with you Dr. Honda, I don't like to be pressured either, and I do see it a lot on this show.
“Why can’t we been a regular boring a** couple” *smiles* I’m convinced she likes this. She likes the thrill. 25:40
Sweet Dr Honda. You’re so untainted .. we all agree with the other doctor because we know what type of guy Chris is.I promise if you, watched more black couples/ council black couples you’d know what I mean lol.
Why would anyone continue to have sex with a person who tells you, to your face , “I don’t find you attractive? Why bother?
the paternalistic, angry-at-his-kids father vibe is disappointing to me, especially given the (professional) nature of pastor cal's relationship with the cast members.
All I want to say is mean. How could you ever believe Chris wanted to stay married to her?
I just dont understand why they took Chris to this show if he just broke up with someone. Its like they were hoping something like this would happen and they would have their drama.
The disappointed face is that she is being used. What do you mean?! He doesn't want her to fall into Chris's manipulation. Chris said he wasn't attracted to her to first night. And yes he never intended to be with her. Don't be naive.
Hey would you ever do a review on Kevin Samuels?
Omg YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh god please no lol
Lmao! That would be funny or confusing.
😂😂🤣🤣😂😂.
I typically agree with your assessments but with this couple, I strongly disagree. I think the first thing to consider is the timeline.
According to an interview from one of the experts, the pre filming process takes about 6 months. If Chris and his ex were engaged three months ago, that leaves the possibility that he was deceptive throughout the entire process.
Secondly, his demeanor and smiles during times he’s causing pain to others seems more like he’s enjoying it than indecision.
He also stated that his anger was from the fact people were not giving him attention when the situation pertains to him. He’s neglecting how this impacts others around him and being more self centered.
Lastly, He continuously shuts down conversations that could actually benefit the relationship and gaslight others reactions, specifically Paige.
It might just be my perception, but I found the counselor’s “I marry people” bit inappropriate. It’s not about you, it’s about the clients and what THEY want guidance with.
If I had a marriage counselor or any professional counselor express that they basically have an ulterior motive, I’d be pissed and probably reply in a childish way lol.
“Who are you? My father? >:(“ lmao.
A lot of people seem to agree with Cal's reaction to them having sex, but like Dr. Kirk, I was quite uncomfortable with it and it reminded me of the way my old catholic high school would talk about sex and the morality of it. It was supposed to be this sacred act and duty of a married couple (we were told a marriage without sex is not a legitimate one in the eyes of God). At the same time, they had this view that men are largely motivated by sex and will do anything for it, and women are in control of it and supposed to be the gatekeepers-only ''giving it'' to the man in exchange for the security of long time commitment (waiting for until marriage), and then later as a ''reward'' if the man was ''good enough''. I didn't see the original show, but it seems that Cal is only judging Paige (for giving access to her body when Chris is not treating her well enough) when Chris is sitting right there?
(The consequences of treating women as the gatekeepers of sex are terrible beyond just that, it paints men as monsters with no moral code when it comes to sex, it makes women feel like they can't enjoy their own sexuality because it is just a tool to control men's behaviour, it makes women ''the guilty partner'' in cases where a couple both had sex, it means a lot of control over young women's sexuality and ''modesty'' but ''boys will be boys'', it promotes slut-shaming, and it encourages rape culture-where women are in possession of something men want and they are supposed to ''get it'' from them, often blaming the victim (for what she was wearing, for where she was, for anything and everything, since she is supposed to make sure men don't have sex).
I don’t think he’s upset about the morality is the fact that the man blatantly told her I’m not attracted to you at all and she continue to engage physically with him. I think he was trying to see if she had any insecurities, because why would you continue to have relations with somebody who told you that they’re not physically attracted to you.
❌❌❌ Chris is a colorist it’s deeper than most non black ppl can see. He’s treating her the way men in our community usually treat dark skin women. You have to do the research before you go defending ppl. & I agree with you on plaster cal tho.
I’m not going to spoil the show for Dr. Honda but the show includes some sort of a Chris and Paige story line until the very end, so please speed up the viewing of the clips. We have not gotten to the real drama yet. This is still the first course. Get to the main course please, the ending is the real treat, if you ever get to it to analyze it.
Why is pastor Cal blaming Paige more than Chris when they both had sex? Another case of putting the weight of sexual mores on women, whereas ''boys will be boys''.
Can’t wait for the incoming data
You’re viewing Chris in a different light than I did watching the show. To me, it was pretty clear that Chris was not interested in a marriage with Paige after he saw her and judged her as physically less than his ideal. She seemed to be attractive enough for him to continually sleep with, just not enough to marry. And If he were in love with his ex why would he apply for this show?
I get pastors potentially have a different orientation toward the institution or marriage and sex, however it doesn't mean that his response would not have an averse effect on Paige who is seeking counsel. Worst thing you can do is to shame someone for their choices; best way to get someone running.
I wonder how much their pay and contract relies on them getting the couples to follow through to the end, bc they invest in these couples, with weddings to vacations, they probably put blame on the "experts" for any failed marriages or follow throughs, or maybe to squeeze out drama at least, idk that bothers me, but I really enjoy watching the dynamics of each couple despite all that, I would love to see more therapy and them cut in sooner than they do when they're having issues instead of letting the drama just go.. the USA really needs to see examples of good relationships
Cal is expressing his concern since they matched them and they were terribly feeling sorry about it. Paige is thinking it sex as part of holy matrimonial union while on the other hand Chris was using this thinking into that.
I would also want to know the thought process of a woman who continues to have sex with a man who has told her he is not physically attracted to her.
I think it’s important to look at their situation thru the lens of narcissism. He is careless and reckless with Paige’s feelings. He is pushing and pulling her, playing games with her emotions like cat and mouse. It’s really gross. I appreciate your open minded outlook of the situation, but I’m surprised some of these mind games don’t stand out more to you as an issue? 🤨🤔💛
Yeah ,Pastor Cal shouldn't tell her what to do or show his disapproval but lets face it, we all know what's up, including Paige. He was showing what we were all thinking. He's trash and she has low self esteem. Hope she learns from this situation.
STD🚩
Aw, we don't hate you :) we appreciate your point of view.
That ending ….doesn’t it say it all!?
Hi dr Honda! Do you think you could react to episode 7 (‘I’m a manipulative person’) of Trisha Paytas’ podcast My Chemical Imbalance? She discusses having traits of BPD and how she attributes it to being abusive in past relationships. Something feels amiss with that attribution but I’d love to get your take on what might be going on! Thanks, keep up the great content!
But it’s not healthy to be having sex with someone who lying to you and telling you they’re not attracted to you
STD🚩
The last thing Paige needs is more shaming when she's living with someone who is gaslighting her. Pastor Cal has some outdated views that are becoming more and more apparent . He had a good style of approaching tough subjects, but he is NOT good at being objective and unbiased. If you watch Married at First Sight Unmatchables you see even more of his outdated views on sex and gender norms. Thankfully, Dr. Viviana keeps him in check.
"That all scans...." 😂😂😂
I think Pastor Cal’s reaction has to do with his perception of what sex means/does. He’s in everyone’s business about sex and wants most of them to stay together so he’s happy when most of them “consummate [their] marriage” but since this marriage is such a disaster he doesn’t want sex to happen because he believes it will bond them. I think that is a particular type of Christian theology. Outside of that, I personally think Chris uses sex as a manipulation tool. But I don’t think he needed to shame Paige about it.
And this is why we wanted you to watch this... Weird, right?!
Dr. H. are we watching the same show?
23:32 my face the whole season
Pastor Cal is disappointed in Chris. He feels like Chris is taking advantage of her.
Also this show was grossly irresponsible for setting up this match up. How did Chris slip through the cracks? Because he just broke up with his fiance and can also be on married at first sight married to someone else two weeks later? How did this happen?
First impressions..
I do think Kirk defending Chris for the sake of giving him a fair shake would sound like good professionalism. To avoid bias. The criticism of Pastor Cal isn't because everyone sees Chris's behavior and it sounds like she's enabling him almost in sex. It did sounds as if he came at Cal from his own unvalued bias because he shared Cal's views which became apparent after he discussed it for about 5 mins.
If their values were the same then fine but there apparently aren't. That's the meat of the issue.
If Paige is okay with Chris and the marriage as is; and she isn't confused and concerned about the marriage then, fine. But she isn't. Chris can be indecisive but, is it just because he wasn't initially attracted; she wasn't his preference of woman; and also, that they are literally strangers then I get it.
But she didn't say that she didn't find Chris attractive. She seemed open and willing to commit and do the work.
Chris just seemed unsure of this scenario that would possibly be committed to the rest of his life in.
Married at first sight is tricky like that because they don't know each other nor did they date to see if it would work out. (How it usually happens.)
If Chris was uncertain then its unfortunate.
If the experts had an impression of Chris that was misinterpreted during the vetting process and that Chris actually have his own preferences for who he wanted to be married with then it makes sense how Chris was dissatisfied with the woman he met at the altar.
I thought it was race but not necessarily. His ex, in appearance is a thin and lighter complexed woman. Idk how much that factors in but I dunno too many model thin women who are looking for an average yet successful guy. In addition to his Chicagoan culture of not disclosing personal information or the value of his personal privacy, in addition to his own insecurities I doubt the million dollar wife he's looking for is looking for him back given his baggage. Just guessing.
Ultimately, Chris should've been honest and cleared his baggage early on and broke her heart early by declining the marriage. It would've saved her a lot of confusion and heartbreak.
Still, inthink Dr. Honda is coming at this a bit too.neutrally to see those decisions implicated and perhaps has his own bias of non-value imposed onto the situation. Maybe he's got his therapy cap on but he's gotta view this as a civilian who's had trauma and behavior that involved indecision and confusion but not a excusing of solitude to make up their mind.
Indecision on important matters in a relationship I can imagine is such a frustrating thing.
Idk if Dr. Honda knows Japanese but, a song that captures this frustration is:
"Kawaki wo Ameku" (Crying for Rain) by Minami
It's about the frustration of indecision and ambiguity in a relationship.
I think pastor Cal is viewing sex from the viewpoint of religion. He (probably) sees sex as a more “sacred” activity than casual? Like this is something two people in love do.
Probably but how do we know that Paige doesn't? She mentions that God brought them together but also the effect thatbsex has on these two people with differing values. He doesn't even find her attractive but he's having sex. It's kind of like objectification.
Paige is probably okay with it because they're married but it doesn't change the fact that someone who doesn't really find you attractive is having sex with you.
Its gotta be damaging and harmful, religiously viewed or not.
I’d love to see you react to Kate & Luke from Season 8 of Married At First Site.
Luke was awful!! You’re right.
That was awful. I wonder if he ever came out.
chris admitted on instagram he went on the show to get back at his ex sooooo yeah
I appreciate your point of view on Chris before he whispered to Paige. I was waiting what you would think after that. My opinion is that he did all this for fame.
I’m with you, Dr. Honda. I can’t stand shaming over sex in any way.
But he wasn't shaming her for having sex. Plus he is a pastor. Unlike therapist, pastors are going to he honest . Pastors are more like a father figure. Not a medical professional. Plus Pastor Cal just doesn't want Paige to get pregnant. Plus Chris is the stereotypical black man who would have unprotected sex with black women sometimes a women of the other race. Then get her pregnant. He was using for sex. I don't know if you are black but you have to understand Black culture to understand where Pastor Cal is coming from.
Chris really just comes off as manipulative to me!
I like that I can disagree with you and still want to watch your videos.I think Chris only wants to be with his ex strictly because he doesn't want another man in his babies life it's a domination and toxic masculinity thing.I've seen toxic masculinity from this man before he even got married.
All I'm going to say is, people have a very strong reaction to what you're saying for a reason. I'll just allow you to continue to watch and see what you have to say further down the line. Maybe focus more on Paige? That's all I'll say lol
Just curious. Why is this being reviewed so long after it aired?
The doctor takes on requests but is limited by time so can't do all reactions at once. Also sometimes people just put in requests for older couples/shows :)
Because he is responding to what viewers have recently asked him to review. He is also reviewing 90DF Mohamed and Daniel from 6 years ago...that's what people have asked for.
The people have spoken.
Does it matter, the lessons are still valid
He has actually recorded this a long time ago but it's just scheduled to go up at different times. Most people ask about 90 days or the Britney Doc, or shows like that more often so they are uploaded and scheduled for shorter intervals.
It doesn't make sense. Why would he come on the show if hes in love with someone else? He just played her.
I just have never gotten over the premise I just can’t.. take it seriously? I guess?
Third view and first comment, keep up the good work!