If you have a tv/monitor with actual hdr capabilities as in 1000 nits peak brightness and good amount of local dimming signs, minimum 500 and high rec 2020 coverage, over 70% rec2020 then hdr is vastly superior
HDR requires proper tone mapping most of the time because PQ on ST.2084 is not a one size fits all solution. SDR is. When you watch SDR every tv supports it properly with 0 issues. HDR is still a mess. You can see my numerous tests on this to verify.
I tried to explain this to friends years ago when HDR first appeared. Movies are color graded for SDR and even as HDR TVs become more popular, the HD technology is still not standardizes. The vast majority or videogames and movies are still not setup properly for HDR as it takes twice the work. You literally need to color grade everything twice. HDR as we are seeing it is mostly just contrast trickery that looks pretty on some displays. At least in the majority of cases.
After watching a bunch of my 4K discs without HDR I have to say it’s a massive improvement, Godzilla 2014’s 4K disc without HDR is the definitive version of this movie in my experience
Been saying HDR is a scam since the beginning. I'm not a video professional, but I repaired older TVs and electronics and understand the basic fundamentals of colour range in digital video. As always... companies trying to push useless features with their TV's and sadly, its embedded into almost everything incorrectly now. I go out of my way to avoid HDR, despite having a new 4K ULED 144Hz Tv with beautiful colour. HDR is off. Good riddance.
SDR is better to me. I've compared multiple Blu-ray movies and the SDR's are brighter/pop more and that's what I'm looking for. I don't like darker video that HDR gives me.
Hey Quantum: I think you nailed it. HDR may be more hype than substance. I have two 4K TVs, a Toshiba Fire TV hooked up to a Roku Box (I like the Roku platform better) and a Sony X85K. The Toshiba is a low budget model. The Roku box streams 4K HDR10 on the auto setting. I never liked it. I assumed it didn't look good because it's a bargain basement TV. But I tried your suggestion. I turned off the auto setting and manually set the picture to 4K SDR. Wow! What a difference. Brighter, more natural color with enhanced detail, contrast, deeper blacks and almost no flicker. Thank you. On the Sony X85K there are a number of HDR settings. I tried them all and didn't really like them. I decided to give another of your suggestions a try. I turned off HDR and changed the color space setting to DSI. The picture looked great! And afterwards, when I turned on HDR to see how it would look, the picture looked over processed; dull and unnatural with diminished color, detail and contrast...like I had thrown polish on something that already shined and didn't need any. HDR is no longer a big deal for me. Thanks again...
9 out of 10, yes, that explains everything I’ve experienced, rarely happened, while HDR turned on, the image getting actually better, most of the times it got worst or unnatural and I had to switch it of again. And scratching my head I was wandering myself wtf…Thanx for explaining.
HDR isn't worth it since it's not even standardized, that´s why it is always giving troubles and not always delivers good results. SDR is better until we get a proper new format in the future (if it happens). At the end of the day, HDR was just a marketing scam.
I noticed on my u8g that if I go into 2 point white balance in HDR and turn up the gain max, it gets rid of the washed out look. This seems to make hdr and sdr look very similar. Not sure exactly why but it does look close to SDR. Thankfully there’s a lot more content coming out in Dolby vision and that look beautiful on this tv.
I was just watching Gemini Man 4k dolby vision 60fps TH-cam video clip on my 10 year old Sharp Aquos Quattron 3d and it looks amazing downscaled to 1080p sdr. I was showing my wife how movies would look in 60fps. I think Hollywood is too self-conscious about their body image to push 4k or 8k at 60fps. Plus it would be difficult to insert cgi scenes that look realistic which they heavily rely on these days. Supposedly they're pushing to release more movies at 60 and 120fps. We'll see. I have always noticed if they use good camera equipment the image can look great on lower budget televisions. I would love to see the movie speed racer footage on a newer oled tv. Or 2001 - A Space Odyssey.
So it is not a lie but a perception lie. To believe a lie can cause obstacles in one's life. But to believe a perception lie is to make ones reality more rough.❤
Facts I remember when I bought my 1st 4k I thought HDR was the new 🔥and when I turn it on I already had a little knowledge TV's but I didn't know anything about HDR so when I turn it on I was like WTF something off and it driving me crazy I thought my TV was bugged or something I was so upset so I did some research and came across Q channel and he spoke nothing but facts
Yes! I have been waiting for you to make this video. My friends and I argue about this all the time and they act like I'm crazy. I keep telling them to turn off HDR especially for gaming. My best buddy has a tv 3x the cost of mine yet my series x looks better because I know how to properly tweak my settings in sdr. I have that shit turned off on everything. Thanks for this video man!!
I swear i read an article or saw an interview with a director, years ago that even when movies were filmed on reals (before digital cameras) they had the capability of capturing the images so much better than what was produced in the theaters or on tv. That there were hundreds of films that if converted to digital now would far outpace current HDR in the clarity of the image. I wish I could remember where I came across that so I could share it.
I don't think your statement brings into account other forms of HDR such as when someone plays a video game. I remember buying the Xbox One x back in the day which was if I'm not mistaken the first console to support HDR and it even came with a little demo so that you could see the difference between HDR being on and off. It was literally game changing. How much better the image looked with HDR. To consider HDR a scam in entirety when you're only evaluating how it affects movies and television shows is an incomplete statement When in reality HDR covers a much larger perspective than just that. On the plus side, I find your demeanor extremely relaxing and thought this was an intensely informative video. Just thought I might bring up that in my opinion it was missing some pieces of information.
Sure it does. True hdr is only possible through real time Ai bracketing and merging. Nothing on the market does that. Hdr is redundant for 99% of all people. The content was already created in high dynamic range 9 times out of 10.
So if I understand correctly, SDR is the best setting to watch on tv? I have an Apple TV 4K and as you may know, there you can choose the format you want SDR 4K, hdr 4K and DOLBY VISION; plus you can choose the options to match the content. If I understand right, I should turn on the SDR 4K and leave the match content options OFF/? That way everything I see will be displayed in SDR? Thanks! 😊
Yea, kind of agree with you after years of giving 4K HDR a go. If you have an apple TV 4K, I have a question. What happens if I want the 4K + BT2020/DCI-P3 colour space but without the 'brightness/luminosity' HDR? Will setting an Apple TV 4K on '4K SDR' give me better resolution and colours than 1080p REC709 without the annoyance of eye-searingly-bright/ or loss of detail in super dark scenes? I'm tired of playing around with the brightness/contrast/oled light settings on my LG CX when watching HDR content, so considering buying an apple TV 4K if it lets me force content to 4K SDR. I just want oldschool 1080p bluray quality but at 4K, without all this HDR nonsense!
I'm on the fence with HDR, personally I wouldn't go out and make a purchase for the sake of HDR. In my experience, it can make colours dull and muted. However, not all content that says HDR is genuinely trying hard and optimizing for it, not all HDR compatible displays are actually doing it properly. You need a display with 1000 Nits at least, and a generally good colour accuracy already, while also using proper HDR content, and if you do this then it's supposed to look a lot better, colours should look the same or better, with a much wider variance of dark and light being able to be shown at any given time, like a pitch black area right next to super bright lights while still seeing the detail, something you can't get with SDR or poor HDR
I definitely have been turning off HDR, especially with the latest settings that you just dialed in for us members on the C1. Everything else feels like a major step backwards now and your explanation makes perfect sense! The one thing that does confuse me, though, if you turn off HDR Does that mean you’re still getting a 4K picture quality? Because when I did it on Hulu the other day for how I Met Your Father, it seemed like it downgraded it to a 1080P picture, so how do you know if things that were shot in 4K are still in 4K on streaming or a Blu-ray without HDR turned on? Is the resolution the same either way?
Some apps force you to use hdr to get 4k as if they have anything to do with one another. Dynamic range is separate from resolution. Sadly the only fix is an hdmi based device that allows you to lock app resolution.
When I watch a 4K movie with the HDR off the black levels clip tremendously....Even when compared to the same movie on standard Blu-ray. Has anyone noticed this? IE..The standard blu-ray and 4K(HDR ON) match closer, and the 4K (HDR off) looks the most different.
Man, I found this video because I changed my Windows 11 display to take advantage of my 120hz display. For some reason when I set the refresh to 120hz Windows toggled "Use HDR" off automatically. What I thought was strange is the picture looks so much better with that HDR mode toggled off. I even calibrated the HDR on Windows. In SDR the colors are more vivid and accurate.
Very informative video ! Can’t pretend I understand it all but I get the gist of it. Now the question is how do I force my tv to play back in SDR? I have Sony OLED’s and use an Apple TV on one and built in apps on the other. Don’t see how I can force SDR on apps like Netflix or Disney+?
Issue problem is most of panels do not get up to 100% REC 2020 Gamut coverage that is needed for HDR. So, with most of them will be suffered with under saturated in most of scene in HDR mode. It's a downside. Only best one that can achieve that is QD-OLED from Samsung for HDR content because they achieve highest as 91% at best in REC 2020. Thats all I can find in review.
I do agree with what you are saying, but I also do understand why the industry is trying to make a standard in video which not every company will follow that standard and not all consumers will calibrate their TV monitors which will lean in a big mess. I mean it's possible to create HDR for (16-235) range of color and I found a few article stating HDR is 8-bit which I don't know is true, but all I know is that I have to set my computer to 10-12 bit to get HDR working.
Yeah no, this is absolutely a scam. I just bought a brand new tv that has all the boxes checked on my Xbox series x and I turned on HDR for a game, instantly got worse. What’s weird is my TVs game mode looks vibrant and clean, but when I put a game on HDR it looks like the colors have been sitting out in the sun for a year and the lighting is strangely bad. It’s the same scam as a tv company saying it has 120 “motion rate” while only being 60 refresh rate. Heed my word, it is not your TV, you don’t need a more expensive tv. Edit: just an FYI, I have HDR turned on for my Xbox and it looks fine, but when I go into a game and specifically enable the games HDR, that’s when it looks washed. So the problem might be that the game developers didn’t implement HDR correctly
I agree with everything. But I was told that HDR has one more trick, that is a feature more than a gimmick. I was told that the information in HDR can boost the display panels backlight at certain display areas. So a streetlamp or the sun, viewed in a movie, would project more light, as the backpanel would boost that, for just those segments of areas. It would of cause require segmented backlight areas, most optimal on an OLED, as every pixel has its on light. This is also why older TV's with backlight frames is not displaying Dolby Vision correctly, as it has no way of boosting backlight on only certain areas. This should be something only possible with HDR on not SDR. I would really like to know if this is also af scam.
I've got a LG C1. I may check out using SDR on my PS5 games. Obviously changing my picture settings to get the best possible picture. Hopefully I'll prefer it over HDR.
For me HDR is a game changer. I get a lot better colors and dynamic range. The highlights in games like looking into the sun is so bright it hurts my eyes 😁 I do have a HDR1000 screen able to push 1200nits of peak brightness. Mini-led. If I turn off hdr, games look like a washes out mess. Boring.
You are right. When you watch a sdr vs hdr comparison on TH-cam you are watching it in SDR. The dynamic range has been graded differently but looks fine in SDR. This why I set my Roku to 4k 60hz instead of 4K Hdr 60hz.
What are your thoughts on Dolby Vision? I do notice that things in Dolby Vision look better than HDR10. I have tried to look up any of your videos on the topic, but haven't found any. Would like your input.
Great info, Q!!! I've learned a lot watching my guy. Still am dumb to a lot of it. For me long as a get a good picture with smooth motion like the 900e series I'll be happy. Going to buy this year for sure. Not sure which route. I'll take what you've taught and try to add it to get my next TV. Want OLED but the wife watches a lot of sitcoms with logo on the screen and I watch a game or 2 a week when I get time to myself. Static image scares me. But man a wanta QDOLED badly. I want a Qusntam TV to remind me of the #1 brand in honesty when I wattch!!! Thank you for the hard work my guy. It doesn't go unappreciated. You're great to this platform.
Probably because most TVs and monitors do not have full array local dimming. The blacks are being boosted to grey because of the backlight, when its supposed to be dimly lit or unlit at all.
Hey Q - great content. Does the same marketing BS hold true for Dolby Vision? Should we keep everything in SDR even if we are watching something with Dolby Vision? (S95B) - Thanks!
Im doing as good as i can manage. Generally hdr is worse. Ps5 games are hit and misses, but usually wildly inconsistent. Sdr is more consistent. I personally advise abandoning hdr.
I have a laptop with a 15.6" HDR compatible 4K UHD AMOLED panel. Here are my observations. With HDR disabled, Blu-ray discs mastered in SDR and HDR look the same, but the quality is superior. With HDR enabled, Blu-rays mastered in SDR look washed out, while Blu-rays mastered in HDR look better. Could the washed-out picture people experience with HDR enabled be because their displays are set up to receive signals with a wider color gamut than they're inputting? I'm not trying to come across as negative. If anything, I'm only posing a suggestion which could explain your negative experience with HDR. I have never heard you mention Blu-rays in the videos of yours I've watched. Only gaming and streaming. If you haven't dabbled with Blu-ray, especially 4K UHD Blu-rays mastered in HDR10 and Dolby Vision, maybe you're not experiencing true HDR content in HDR mode, which might explain the washed-out experience.
That voice in the end when you said "Oh you have no detail in your cloud" reminded me of someone. I have watched this three times soon because it's informative. Thanks!
Hdr has always been a disappointment on my TV, just try watching any MCU content with it, it's dark colours are dull so I have it disabled and everything just like much better without it
HDR varies to much for my liking. And I’m literally using top of the line 2022 65 inch lg c2 oled nvm lesser TVs. I mainly play video games on my ps5 and series X and I promise you there’s only a select few titles that actually have decent HDR implementations. Here’s a few titles that actually are okay on HDR Horizon Forbidden West and Ratchet and Clank rift apart. That’s all I can think of right now that actually has decent HDR experience so for me engaging in technology without any standardization which requires constant adjustments and still can’t satisfy my expectations… I choose to use SDR and adjust and calibrate from there. I still get 10 times more accurate and stunning image than the most advanced HDR games there are…
Yeah, I've always felt that HDR was overrated, I pretty much only use the feature on my LG C1 in one specific game and never anywhere else because in most cases it doesn't make things look any better. Some content becomes pretty much unwatchable with HDR enabled. Last year there were a bunch of memes going around for House of the Dragon and it's 2 nits of peak brightness in scenes when HDR was turned on; that show was pretty much only watchable in SDR and there are countless other examples. The other issue is that there isn't any real "standard" for what HDR should be so it ends up being really inconsistent.
Here I was watching my Andor UHD and it's looking so good and sharp... until I finally realized, my HDR isn't even working... Idk what the issue is but I can't get HDR to work on any content on my LG C1, like it's broken... but after watching this video, it is kinda agreeable to my realization... I was enjoying SDR actually more than I was enjoying HDR without even knowing it...
I've always envisioned HDR as "SDR, but with brighter highlights". For instance, that lightbulb in the background of your video would physically shine brighter than in an SDR video. And i think that, if properly implemented, that's what HDR is supposed to give. Maybe you're scrolling a website of images of Las Vegas and you notice the neon signs are brighter than the white background of the website. I don't own a dedicated HDR monitor or TV, but I have seen what I believe is HDR in how it was intended, at the store. Sounds to me like a lot of the issues with washed out colors are an implementation issue. Maybe an SDR image is being (properly) conditioned for transmisdion among a BT.2020 signal but the display itself isn't capable of displaying Rec.2020 but it also doesn't bother to tonemap. Iunno.
I've only ever experienced washed out hdr on windows 10. Windows has the worst hdr implication I've seen. Otherwise using my TV on my ps5 and general streaming hdr looks fantastic (LGC1)
Steve Mann Came up with the idea of HDR, he made a mess of film photography, that guy has got to go, he complicated the sh***T out of video photography
You have made some really good points. My question is this… how does the bandwidth of the service provider affect one’s ability to view hdr vs sdr? Because when I play any dvd whether 1080p up to and including 4K Uhd Colors are excellent with good saturation. My internet is rural so I get 30 mb thru put and 25 is considered the bare minimum for 4k viewing.
LOL, I’ve never seen anyone be more right and more wrong all at the same time. First, you’re right in that HDR is a mess. Lack of standardization and agreements between display manufacturers is holding up several solutions to many problems. The result of this is exactly as you describe, a boosted display. Basically, just shifting the pivot point of an SDR render. Be very clear, this is not HDR. Most individuals would be better off delivering high quality SDR than even trying to do HDR. A lot of HDR is done by individuals that have no idea of what they are even trying to do, which leads to guessing. The hardware to accomplish true HDR is out of the price range of most people. Which again, leads to guessing. Guessing does not get it done. To top that, OLED can’t even do HDR, well it tries but you end up with exactly what you described, a boosted picture. The benefit of OLED was it’s ability to do true black, but when it tries to go above 600, 700, 800 nits it pulls up the exposure of the darker parts of the screen. That means it just nullified the very advantage of the OLED display. A good example of this is the announcement that Sony is abandoning OLED. Sony has realized HDR is coming, they need to be ready, and OLED won’t get it done. Now if you capture 15 stops of light, grade the footage, and render to REC709, then you are limited to at best eight stops of light. This is not an argument; you can go read the 900-page document over REC709 and it is very clear 000-1 is six stops of light and 000-4 is eight stops of light. It does not matter if you recorded 50 stops of light, once you render the deliverable, it is eight stops of light maximum. If you are watching HDR in your living room and you are not picking your jaw up off the floor, then you are not watching HDR footage. The difference between SDR and HDR is like the difference between 480i and 4Kp, there is that much of a difference. 99.9% of the tv viewing public have never seen HDR footage. But it is coming. When true HDR finally gets prolific in living rooms there will be NO movie theaters anymore. The last reason to go to a movie theater will be gone. I envy you. You will get to see things by the time you are 80 years old that I can’t even imagine. Think about that, I can’t even imagine….what you are going to get to see. 😊
Depends on the content, I’m mainly using it for gaming on pc laptop, it’s a pain to set though set your tv/ monitor, set your display settings, set your graphic card settings, and then adjust the graphics settings inside each video game as well, also noticed the laptop uses the integrated graphics if I leave it open to I gotta close it to use the rtx card. Anyways new games are utilizing and I think eventually standardized hdr, lot of trail and error to set though
Just getting started collecting 4K Blurays with HDR. My TV supports HDR but is not that great and on the cheaper end - while the colors appear fine I notice that things are super dark like details in the shadows I can't see them like in a normal Bluray version. I can't adjust gamma in HDR so means I need to adjust brightness/backlight but it's a balancing act to get that to look good. I think i've gotten things to look pretty good for different movies but with SDR content like the standard bluray it just works perfectly out of the box LOL. So idk if it's worth the hassle
Whatever you choose is your choice. This information explains how and why HDR is a scam compared to modern SDR imagery.
If you have a tv/monitor with actual hdr capabilities as in 1000 nits peak brightness and good amount of local dimming signs, minimum 500 and high rec 2020 coverage, over 70% rec2020 then hdr is vastly superior
HDR requires proper tone mapping most of the time because PQ on ST.2084 is not a one size fits all solution. SDR is. When you watch SDR every tv supports it properly with 0 issues. HDR is still a mess. You can see my numerous tests on this to verify.
I tried to explain this to friends years ago when HDR first appeared. Movies are color graded for SDR and even as HDR TVs become more popular, the HD technology is still not standardizes. The vast majority or videogames and movies are still not setup properly for HDR as it takes twice the work. You literally need to color grade everything twice. HDR as we are seeing it is mostly just contrast trickery that looks pretty on some displays. At least in the majority of cases.
I completely agree.
HDR is just poorly implemented in gaming almost all my games on Series X and Ps5 look much better with HDR turned off.
After watching a bunch of my 4K discs without HDR I have to say it’s a massive improvement, Godzilla 2014’s 4K disc without HDR is the definitive version of this movie in my experience
Been saying HDR is a scam since the beginning. I'm not a video professional, but I repaired older TVs and electronics and understand the basic fundamentals of colour range in digital video. As always... companies trying to push useless features with their TV's and sadly, its embedded into almost everything incorrectly now. I go out of my way to avoid HDR, despite having a new 4K ULED 144Hz Tv with beautiful colour. HDR is off. Good riddance.
My TV looks better on SDR then it does on HDR.
SDR is better to me. I've compared multiple Blu-ray movies and the SDR's are brighter/pop more and that's what I'm looking for. I don't like darker video that HDR gives me.
Sdr looks beautiful somehow with more Vivid colors
You brought my C1 back to life with your newest SDR settings. Just wow 😮🎉
Get to watch anything good?
Hey Quantum: I think you nailed it. HDR may be more hype than substance. I have two 4K TVs, a Toshiba Fire TV hooked up to a Roku Box (I like the Roku platform better) and a Sony X85K.
The Toshiba is a low budget model. The Roku box streams 4K HDR10 on the auto setting. I never liked it. I assumed it didn't look good because it's a bargain basement TV. But I tried your suggestion. I turned off the auto setting and manually set the picture to 4K SDR. Wow! What a difference. Brighter, more natural color with enhanced detail, contrast, deeper blacks and almost no flicker. Thank you.
On the Sony X85K there are a number of HDR settings. I tried them all and didn't really like them.
I decided to give another of your suggestions a try.
I turned off HDR and changed the color space setting to DSI. The picture looked great! And afterwards, when I turned on HDR to see how it would look, the picture looked over processed; dull and unnatural with diminished color, detail and contrast...like I had thrown polish on something that already shined and didn't need any. HDR is no longer a big deal for me. Thanks again...
That's what I always thought, HDR most of the time makes my games look muted.
I love colours to pop.
SDR is way better on my 4K TV than HDR and Dolby Vision!. Colours just pop!.
Everyone who can see all colors will notice that hdr looks just like washed out
9 out of 10, yes, that explains everything I’ve experienced, rarely happened, while HDR turned on, the image getting actually better, most of the times it got worst or unnatural and I had to switch it of again. And scratching my head I was wandering myself wtf…Thanx for explaining.
Agreed. I always turn off HDR... in my PS5, laptop, OLED, Bluray, Smartphone.
HDR isn't worth it since it's not even standardized, that´s why it is always giving troubles and not always delivers good results. SDR is better until we get a proper new format in the future (if it happens).
At the end of the day, HDR was just a marketing scam.
I noticed on my u8g that if I go into 2 point white balance in HDR and turn up the gain max, it gets rid of the washed out look. This seems to make hdr and sdr look very similar. Not sure exactly why but it does look close to SDR.
Thankfully there’s a lot more content coming out in Dolby vision and that look beautiful on this tv.
I can't personally get behind hdr. They pushed it real heavy for like 3yrs then ditched it to sell 85in tvs with ai.
I was just watching Gemini Man 4k dolby vision 60fps TH-cam video clip on my 10 year old Sharp Aquos Quattron 3d and it looks amazing downscaled to 1080p sdr. I was showing my wife how movies would look in 60fps. I think Hollywood is too self-conscious about their body image to push 4k or 8k at 60fps. Plus it would be difficult to insert cgi scenes that look realistic which they heavily rely on these days. Supposedly they're pushing to release more movies at 60 and 120fps. We'll see. I have always noticed if they use good camera equipment the image can look great on lower budget televisions. I would love to see the movie speed racer footage on a newer oled tv. Or 2001 - A Space Odyssey.
I thought I was going crazy when my LG was turning on HDR and picture looks worst. Thanks for the video. HDR going to off.
100 percent fact I’m enjoying playing sdr on my ps5 with my U8G better then hdr it’s just more colorful, and with better blacks
So it is not a lie but a perception lie. To believe a lie can cause obstacles in one's life. But to believe a perception lie is to make ones reality more rough.❤
Ayeee Q made a throwback video I ❤️the HDR vs SDR videos taught me so much about TV's mad respect to you man
Same was not aware of these things before watching quantum.
Facts I remember when I bought my 1st 4k I thought HDR was the new 🔥and when I turn it on I already had a little knowledge TV's but I didn't know anything about HDR so when I turn it on I was like WTF something off and it driving me crazy I thought my TV was bugged or something I was so upset so I did some research and came across Q channel and he spoke nothing but facts
Thank you brother vell! I appreciate you sharing your experience! I'm honored to be a good teacher! 😁👍
All this time I thought my eyes had problem and my eyes can't catch those colours lol😂
I have seen some of the things you mentioned in HDR gaming. But watching 4K blu-rays in HDR is still a good experience I’d recommend.
good on you for speaking the truth brother!
Yes! I have been waiting for you to make this video. My friends and I argue about this all the time and they act like I'm crazy. I keep telling them to turn off HDR especially for gaming. My best buddy has a tv 3x the cost of mine yet my series x looks better because I know how to properly tweak my settings in sdr. I have that shit turned off on everything. Thanks for this video man!!
Very informative! So is it better to shoot in HDR rather than SDR (FX9 camera) no matter what the viewer's monitor is capable of?
Correct. Hdr profiles like slog2, 3, hlg, and so on, look great when graded for sdr screens
So you put a picture to the video 5:37 and i live exactly here Budapest Hungary ... and you from America. No way, unbelievable...
I swear i read an article or saw an interview with a director, years ago that even when movies were filmed on reals (before digital cameras) they had the capability of capturing the images so much better than what was produced in the theaters or on tv. That there were hundreds of films that if converted to digital now would far outpace current HDR in the clarity of the image. I wish I could remember where I came across that so I could share it.
I don't think your statement brings into account other forms of HDR such as when someone plays a video game. I remember buying the Xbox One x back in the day which was if I'm not mistaken the first console to support HDR and it even came with a little demo so that you could see the difference between HDR being on and off. It was literally game changing. How much better the image looked with HDR. To consider HDR a scam in entirety when you're only evaluating how it affects movies and television shows is an incomplete statement When in reality HDR covers a much larger perspective than just that.
On the plus side, I find your demeanor extremely relaxing and thought this was an intensely informative video. Just thought I might bring up that in my opinion it was missing some pieces of information.
Sure it does. True hdr is only possible through real time Ai bracketing and merging. Nothing on the market does that. Hdr is redundant for 99% of all people. The content was already created in high dynamic range 9 times out of 10.
So if I understand correctly, SDR is the best setting to watch on tv?
I have an Apple TV 4K and as you may know, there you can choose the format you want SDR 4K, hdr 4K and DOLBY VISION; plus you can choose the options to match the content.
If I understand right, I should turn on the SDR 4K and leave the match content options OFF/? That way everything I see will be displayed in SDR?
Thanks! 😊
Great and informative video . The best one I've seen of yours and the best I've seen period . Sharing your insight 🙏
Yea, kind of agree with you after years of giving 4K HDR a go. If you have an apple TV 4K, I have a question. What happens if I want the 4K + BT2020/DCI-P3 colour space but without the 'brightness/luminosity' HDR? Will setting an Apple TV 4K on '4K SDR' give me better resolution and colours than 1080p REC709 without the annoyance of eye-searingly-bright/ or loss of detail in super dark scenes? I'm tired of playing around with the brightness/contrast/oled light settings on my LG CX when watching HDR content, so considering buying an apple TV 4K if it lets me force content to 4K SDR. I just want oldschool 1080p bluray quality but at 4K, without all this HDR nonsense!
I'm on the fence with HDR, personally I wouldn't go out and make a purchase for the sake of HDR. In my experience, it can make colours dull and muted. However, not all content that says HDR is genuinely trying hard and optimizing for it, not all HDR compatible displays are actually doing it properly. You need a display with 1000 Nits at least, and a generally good colour accuracy already, while also using proper HDR content, and if you do this then it's supposed to look a lot better, colours should look the same or better, with a much wider variance of dark and light being able to be shown at any given time, like a pitch black area right next to super bright lights while still seeing the detail, something you can't get with SDR or poor HDR
SDR IS BETTER
I HATE HDR
I definitely have been turning off HDR, especially with the latest settings that you just dialed in for us members on the C1. Everything else feels like a major step backwards now and your explanation makes perfect sense! The one thing that does confuse me, though, if you turn off HDR Does that mean you’re still getting a 4K picture quality? Because when I did it on Hulu the other day for how I Met Your Father, it seemed like it downgraded it to a 1080P picture, so how do you know if things that were shot in 4K are still in 4K on streaming or a Blu-ray without HDR turned on? Is the resolution the same either way?
Some apps force you to use hdr to get 4k as if they have anything to do with one another. Dynamic range is separate from resolution. Sadly the only fix is an hdmi based device that allows you to lock app resolution.
When I watch a 4K movie with the HDR off the black levels clip tremendously....Even when compared to the same movie on standard Blu-ray. Has anyone noticed this? IE..The standard blu-ray and 4K(HDR ON) match closer, and the 4K (HDR off) looks the most different.
Man, I found this video because I changed my Windows 11 display to take advantage of my 120hz display. For some reason when I set the refresh to 120hz Windows toggled "Use HDR" off automatically. What I thought was strange is the picture looks so much better with that HDR mode toggled off. I even calibrated the HDR on Windows. In SDR the colors are more vivid and accurate.
HDR is a gimmick that never got off the ground! SDR is way better.
Quantum ,saving the world one tv at a time !!!🌎👍🤯
When I turn HDR on for my MAC, I have to sit there and thumb through all the color options to tame the saturation and it is still a mess.
This Man is Right, you just need to calibrate your SDR BY 7% Brightness and 2% of saturation and HDR 10 + looks like washed out crap.
I completely agree. Not to mention the highlights in HDR are simply _too_ bright.
Very informative video ! Can’t pretend I understand it all but I get the gist of it. Now the question is how do I force my tv to play back in SDR? I have Sony OLED’s and use an Apple TV on one and built in apps on the other. Don’t see how I can force SDR on apps like Netflix or Disney+?
Good question! I wouldn't know how to use apple products, but it should be in the menu options.
Issue problem is most of panels do not get up to 100% REC 2020 Gamut coverage that is needed for HDR. So, with most of them will be suffered with under saturated in most of scene in HDR mode. It's a downside. Only best one that can achieve that is QD-OLED from Samsung for HDR content because they achieve highest as 91% at best in REC 2020. Thats all I can find in review.
Alright, so 10bit SDR it is. Thanks!
I do agree with what you are saying, but I also do understand why the industry is trying to make a standard in video which not every company will follow that standard and not all consumers will calibrate their TV monitors which will lean in a big mess. I mean it's possible to create HDR for (16-235) range of color and I found a few article stating HDR is 8-bit which I don't know is true, but all I know is that I have to set my computer to 10-12 bit to get HDR working.
learned something today ! thnx
Yeah no, this is absolutely a scam. I just bought a brand new tv that has all the boxes checked on my Xbox series x and I turned on HDR for a game, instantly got worse. What’s weird is my TVs game mode looks vibrant and clean, but when I put a game on HDR it looks like the colors have been sitting out in the sun for a year and the lighting is strangely bad. It’s the same scam as a tv company saying it has 120 “motion rate” while only being 60 refresh rate.
Heed my word, it is not your TV, you don’t need a more expensive tv. Edit: just an FYI, I have HDR turned on for my Xbox and it looks fine, but when I go into a game and specifically enable the games HDR, that’s when it looks washed. So the problem might be that the game developers didn’t implement HDR correctly
I agree with everything. But I was told that HDR has one more trick, that is a feature more than a gimmick. I was told that the information in HDR can boost the display panels backlight at certain display areas. So a streetlamp or the sun, viewed in a movie, would project more light, as the backpanel would boost that, for just those segments of areas. It would of cause require segmented backlight areas, most optimal on an OLED, as every pixel has its on light. This is also why older TV's with backlight frames is not displaying Dolby Vision correctly, as it has no way of boosting backlight on only certain areas. This should be something only possible with HDR on not SDR. I would really like to know if this is also af scam.
Great video. When learning, I can often look at pages and remember them visually. Now my memory has gone from SDR to HDR.
Your SDR settings I used on my G2 really pop. I used the C1 settings I would love to see if you made some for the G2!!
Thats awsome James. I don't have a G2 but atleast the c1 settings were a good alternative
this video actually looks far better with HRD off 😅
I've got a LG C1. I may check out using SDR on my PS5 games. Obviously changing my picture settings to get the best possible picture. Hopefully I'll prefer it over HDR.
My conclusion is that if you want to see the original product as its creators wanted it to look like, you have to turn off HDR.
For me HDR is a game changer. I get a lot better colors and dynamic range. The highlights in games like looking into the sun is so bright it hurts my eyes 😁
I do have a HDR1000 screen able to push 1200nits of peak brightness. Mini-led.
If I turn off hdr, games look like a washes out mess. Boring.
You are right. When you watch a sdr vs hdr comparison on TH-cam you are watching it in SDR. The dynamic range has been graded differently but looks fine in SDR. This why I set my Roku to 4k 60hz instead of 4K Hdr 60hz.
Turned on HDR on my alienware monitor beezus my eyes felt like it got flashbanged.
Would you say the same thing about Dolby Vision? Personally, I don't understand the hype and actually prefer SDR's color schemes. At least on my TCL.
Pioneer 5070HD 50 inch (plasma) vs Sony X85K 4K 50 inch? I have a circa 2010 Sansui 1080P LCD 46 inch currently
Agreed and appreciate the explanation.
Thanks
What are your thoughts on Dolby Vision? I do notice that things in Dolby Vision look better than HDR10. I have tried to look up any of your videos on the topic, but haven't found any. Would like your input.
Great info, Q!!! I've learned a lot watching my guy. Still am dumb to a lot of it. For me long as a get a good picture with smooth motion like the 900e series I'll be happy. Going to buy this year for sure. Not sure which route. I'll take what you've taught and try to add it to get my next TV. Want OLED but the wife watches a lot of sitcoms with logo on the screen and I watch a game or 2 a week when I get time to myself. Static image scares me. But man a wanta QDOLED badly. I want a Qusntam TV to remind me of the #1 brand in honesty when I wattch!!! Thank you for the hard work my guy. It doesn't go unappreciated. You're great to this platform.
Typo central lol sorry about that.
Its all good. Glad i could help
Very good explanation. Thanks
Appreciate your showing up as always
I only use HDR with HDR content. HDR looks beyond terrible on Sdr content
Probably because most TVs and monitors do not have full array local dimming. The blacks are being boosted to grey because of the backlight, when its supposed to be dimly lit or unlit at all.
Hi Quantum, newbie question: where do I turn off HDR on my G3 or Apple TV?
If you are watching different content on a 16 hour loop in 24 hours,,,, 24,7 would you go OLED G4 or a QLED High Quality ?
I'm wondering what is the better gamma setting to use for SDR , 2.2 or BT.1886 ?
Hey Q - great content. Does the same marketing BS hold true for Dolby Vision? Should we keep everything in SDR even if we are watching something with Dolby Vision? (S95B) - Thanks!
The s95b doesn't support DV
Finally someone says it
HDR on my iPhone camera made my tv black screen after recording it🤦🏽♀️ only had tv 2 weeks🤦🏽♀️
Yo Quantum how are you doing. does this also apply to ps5 games? is sdr better than hdr? or are games made hdr? What do you advise
Greets,🙏🏻
Im doing as good as i can manage. Generally hdr is worse. Ps5 games are hit and misses, but usually wildly inconsistent. Sdr is more consistent. I personally advise abandoning hdr.
I have a laptop with a 15.6" HDR compatible 4K UHD AMOLED panel. Here are my observations. With HDR disabled, Blu-ray discs mastered in SDR and HDR look the same, but the quality is superior. With HDR enabled, Blu-rays mastered in SDR look washed out, while Blu-rays mastered in HDR look better. Could the washed-out picture people experience with HDR enabled be because their displays are set up to receive signals with a wider color gamut than they're inputting? I'm not trying to come across as negative. If anything, I'm only posing a suggestion which could explain your negative experience with HDR. I have never heard you mention Blu-rays in the videos of yours I've watched. Only gaming and streaming. If you haven't dabbled with Blu-ray, especially 4K UHD Blu-rays mastered in HDR10 and Dolby Vision, maybe you're not experiencing true HDR content in HDR mode, which might explain the washed-out experience.
That voice in the end when you said "Oh you have no detail in your cloud" reminded me of someone. I have watched this three times soon because it's informative. Thanks!
exactly my thoughts. when we can get it in sdr why hdr ? it feels like fake manipulation to video
SDR. Software defined radio.
Hdr has always been a disappointment on my TV, just try watching any MCU content with it, it's dark colours are dull so I have it disabled and everything just like much better without it
HDR varies to much for my liking. And I’m literally using top of the line 2022 65 inch lg c2 oled nvm lesser TVs. I mainly play video games on my ps5 and series X and I promise you there’s only a select few titles that actually have decent HDR implementations. Here’s a few titles that actually are okay on HDR Horizon Forbidden West and Ratchet and Clank rift apart. That’s all I can think of right now that actually has decent HDR experience so for me engaging in technology without any standardization which requires constant adjustments and still can’t satisfy my expectations… I choose to use SDR and adjust and calibrate from there. I still get 10 times more accurate and stunning image than the most advanced HDR games there are…
Add the witcher 3 enhanced and Gears 5 to that list. Most games look pure trash in HDR.
What about viewing HEIC or HEIF files on a n HDR monitor or TV?
Yeah, I've always felt that HDR was overrated, I pretty much only use the feature on my LG C1 in one specific game and never anywhere else because in most cases it doesn't make things look any better. Some content becomes pretty much unwatchable with HDR enabled. Last year there were a bunch of memes going around for House of the Dragon and it's 2 nits of peak brightness in scenes when HDR was turned on; that show was pretty much only watchable in SDR and there are countless other examples.
The other issue is that there isn't any real "standard" for what HDR should be so it ends up being really inconsistent.
Don’t like HDR. Tried it on Horizon Forbidden West and it was just awful 😣 on my Sony a8g.
Here I was watching my Andor UHD and it's looking so good and sharp... until I finally realized, my HDR isn't even working... Idk what the issue is but I can't get HDR to work on any content on my LG C1, like it's broken... but after watching this video, it is kinda agreeable to my realization... I was enjoying SDR actually more than I was enjoying HDR without even knowing it...
Do love the Honesty and the great explanations ,Keep up the good work.😁
Hdr is good if done right but sadly most games have black level raise🙃 idk for movies
so is the best SDR television sets as good as the oled television sets? post calibration/adjusting settings optimally?
SDR is the best and most consistent experience any user can experience on the current display technology.
I've always envisioned HDR as "SDR, but with brighter highlights". For instance, that lightbulb in the background of your video would physically shine brighter than in an SDR video. And i think that, if properly implemented, that's what HDR is supposed to give. Maybe you're scrolling a website of images of Las Vegas and you notice the neon signs are brighter than the white background of the website. I don't own a dedicated HDR monitor or TV, but I have seen what I believe is HDR in how it was intended, at the store.
Sounds to me like a lot of the issues with washed out colors are an implementation issue. Maybe an SDR image is being (properly) conditioned for transmisdion among a BT.2020 signal but the display itself isn't capable of displaying Rec.2020 but it also doesn't bother to tonemap. Iunno.
To me using the preset "Dynamic or Vivid" mode is about the same as HDR...generally speaking.
This video looks great in HDR using nvidia RTX IA to convert SDR to HDR
Hello, can you please give the proper Xbox Series X video setting for HDMI 2.0 tvs beside turning off HDR setting.🙏
I've only ever experienced washed out hdr on windows 10. Windows has the worst hdr implication I've seen. Otherwise using my TV on my ps5 and general streaming hdr looks fantastic (LGC1)
If you ever get the chance to compare the sdr experience im talking about, you'll see it.
Steve Mann Came up with the idea of HDR, he made a mess of film photography, that guy has got to go, he complicated the sh***T out of video photography
You have made some really good points. My question is this… how does the bandwidth of the service provider affect one’s ability to view hdr vs sdr? Because when I play any dvd whether 1080p up to and including 4K Uhd Colors are excellent with good saturation. My internet is rural so I get 30 mb thru put and 25 is considered the bare minimum for 4k viewing.
In the case of cyberpunk2077 HDR makes it look more colorful and bright
LOL, I’ve never seen anyone be more right and more wrong all at the same time. First, you’re right in that HDR is a mess. Lack of standardization and agreements between display manufacturers is holding up several solutions to many problems. The result of this is exactly as you describe, a boosted display. Basically, just shifting the pivot point of an SDR render. Be very clear, this is not HDR. Most individuals would be better off delivering high quality SDR than even trying to do HDR. A lot of HDR is done by individuals that have no idea of what they are even trying to do, which leads to guessing. The hardware to accomplish true HDR is out of the price range of most people. Which again, leads to guessing. Guessing does not get it done.
To top that, OLED can’t even do HDR, well it tries but you end up with exactly what you described, a boosted picture. The benefit of OLED was it’s ability to do true black, but when it tries to go above 600, 700, 800 nits it pulls up the exposure of the darker parts of the screen. That means it just nullified the very advantage of the OLED display. A good example of this is the announcement that Sony is abandoning OLED. Sony has realized HDR is coming, they need to be ready, and OLED won’t get it done.
Now if you capture 15 stops of light, grade the footage, and render to REC709, then you are limited to at best eight stops of light. This is not an argument; you can go read the 900-page document over REC709 and it is very clear 000-1 is six stops of light and 000-4 is eight stops of light. It does not matter if you recorded 50 stops of light, once you render the deliverable, it is eight stops of light maximum.
If you are watching HDR in your living room and you are not picking your jaw up off the floor, then you are not watching HDR footage. The difference between SDR and HDR is like the difference between 480i and 4Kp, there is that much of a difference. 99.9% of the tv viewing public have never seen HDR footage. But it is coming. When true HDR finally gets prolific in living rooms there will be NO movie theaters anymore. The last reason to go to a movie theater will be gone.
I envy you. You will get to see things by the time you are 80 years old that I can’t even imagine. Think about that, I can’t even imagine….what you are going to get to see. 😊
Depends on the content, I’m mainly using it for gaming on pc laptop, it’s a pain to set though set your tv/ monitor, set your display settings, set your graphic card settings, and then adjust the graphics settings inside each video game as well, also noticed the laptop uses the integrated graphics if I leave it open to I gotta close it to use the rtx card. Anyways new games are utilizing and I think eventually standardized hdr, lot of trail and error to set though
Just getting started collecting 4K Blurays with HDR. My TV supports HDR but is not that great and on the cheaper end - while the colors appear fine I notice that things are super dark like details in the shadows I can't see them like in a normal Bluray version. I can't adjust gamma in HDR so means I need to adjust brightness/backlight but it's a balancing act to get that to look good. I think i've gotten things to look pretty good for different movies but with SDR content like the standard bluray it just works perfectly out of the box LOL. So idk if it's worth the hassle
Hi! How to disable HDR of a bluray??
Seems that local dimming is more important than hdr