I've loved your cd player videos so much, I'm not even in the market for a cd player but I've really enjoyed your articulated opinions and hands on experiences with these devices, it's a shame that so few people focus on the whole user experience in their reviews
I am still a huge vinyl and CD guy. I don't do any streaming services. It was brought home recently when our internet service was down for over a week because of storms and upgrades. Yet I was able to keep enjoying music thank goodness to my library of music. Fortunately my power was on as well.
Hi Jim. I am with you on this, however, I do find streaming useful for experimenting with new artists and comparing classical music recordings of a given piece. Sometimes I discover things that I would not have, had I simply gone to an online record store.
I am also still invested in vinyl and CD. I have spotify because my wife and 3 sons use it probably 8-12 hours a day. It would be diffacult to own as much music as one has access to digital online.
Last year, I accidentally saw an offer and purchased an Arcam CD 192 in excellent condition. It has a dense thick sound and a deep scene. With a good CD player, you can ignore the fashion for vinyl. But I can't completely abandon vinyl LPs, because you can find rare things there - as opposed to what is on the central shelves in record stores. Thank you for supporting our inspiration to use these things!
I bought the Pro-Ject drive a good year ago, before that I had listened to ripped CDs on a good ripping system. The sound on my NOS-DAC is worlds better than before. Thank you for this great series of videos ☺.
None of the CD players from the first part were multi-disc players. I am so happy with my 5 CD player with its big CD trays. Perhaps electronic components were compromised to save costs, but being able to load a whole evening's music into the tray and letting it run takes duration almost to a practical limit. (Aside from compressed media and the radio). And my aging ears can get used to more imperfections than I could in the good old days. I actually have several of these multi CD players, and I am sure at least one will outlive me when they start breaking.
Excellent video as always! I love your passion, your knowledge. Amazing. Please continue. It’s a pleasure to watch your videos and you are a gift for the HiFi community. Thank you.
Thank you for this series, it’s good to see that cd players continue to have good options. I’m still using my old Myryad, and I might even dabble in case repair if the buttons get worse. It just has served me so well, I‘d have a hard time letting it go.
I have had the Pro-ject cd box rs2 plus power supply for a year it was initially paired with the dac box 2 which sounded very nice . I recently swapped the dac box 2 for an 8 year old Weiss 202 dac .The improvement in detail , bass and dynamics is very noticeable over the Dac box 2 , the Wiess 202 is a very fine headphone amp to boot ,my old HD 650s have never sounded so good .I suspect the Pro-ject cd box rs 2 with power supply would give some truly high end players a run for their money .Thank you for a thoughtful review .
I really enjoyed this series Harley. I always preferred my LP12 to the Marantz CD players I've had (52 mk2 & 67 mk2) but I recently git a Cambridge Audio 340c Azur and it blew me away. A very enjoyable alternative to vinyl🎶
Watching you load the Pro-Ject I remembered the Micromega CD players from the 90s with the big perspex lid. They were absolutely wonderful, and great value. We sold a lot of those.
Having owned many many cd players over the years, some real high end and some of those mentioned here, I can honestly say the best sounding players (and best for reliability) I've had the pleasure of owning are the recent generation mid upwards Denon players. With their excellent Alpha processing circuitry (which really makes red book compact disc sound so naturally real) to their terrific transport mechanisms, build and value for money, these players are the ones I won't be changing. What's more is they are true minimalist cd/sacd/DSD5.6 high resolution players with no added xtras. So you get the very best sound out of the format.
@@bubblehead5394 I don't completely disagree with you, but that's not been my experience! Having said that I've had my two Denons heavily modified. One of the players is within the price range that you mention, has had exactly the same mods done as my cheaper player at half the price, and that player in no way sounds inferior to the dearer model. Its all about good general design in the first place and a cd player having good power supplys, circuit designs etc.
@@jcarter3562 It's a CD player not an Electrostatically Supported Gyro Navigator (ESGN) on a nuclear submarine, lmao. I too have owed a handful of high-end CD players and highly revealing systems. In the end, its mostly hogwash.
Such a joy watching to your thoughtful videos that are both erudite and presented with class. Although not in the market for some things discussed, watching is always a learning experience not just the technical details but the way you analyze a subject. Looking forward to more! On topic, last year I purchased a Denon DCD A110 SACD player - wonderful device that is beautifully crafted inside and out. Am now, a firm believer that a good disc player DOES make an important difference in audio quality.
Thank you, you’re very kind. The big plus with CD is that you control the transfer of the data from the stored medium to the DAC, whereas one can never be sure with streaming.
If the best sonic performance is your goal (and the way your equipment looks is secondary to that goal), I would abandon domestic equipment completely. Using balanced professional studio equipment and monitors is often cheaper than comparably accurate domestic kit. A 2-channel interface like the Focusrite Clarett 2i2 contains twin mono DACs and preamps that have more than ample sampling rates, dynamic range and frequency response to cope with the S/PDIF coax output (or if you want to go mad, the balanced AES3 output) of a pro transport like the Tascam CD500. Using a laptop and the Mix Control software that comes with the interface, just route the S/PDIF IN directly to “Monitor Out” for zero latency through the interface, select the source as the clock and select the correct sampling rate, and you’ve got a completely separate balanced pair (stereo LR) at the outputs. You can stay in the low noise +4dBu arena all the way through the ongoing signal chain if you want and use a pair of mono power amps (or a 2 channel amp) to drive a pair of near field studio monitors (ATC SCM7/LS3/5a or the like). Or go big and hook up a pair of active SCM25s. Using professional audio gear gives you access to massive headroom for your speakers, typically +6dB. That gives you access to very high impedance passive speakers (11 Ohms+). Class D amps have come an awful long way and are now standard in most professional studios. No more massive transformers with their associated heat dissipation problems etc. Then there’s the software switchable sampling rates to make use of as well. And you can rack mount everything you need in a 19” 6U rack for neatness. There’s no doubt that at the top end of the professional market you can spend the same and much more than you’d have to pay to buy domestic equipment but why would you? There’s a lot of seriously good used professional audio gear sloshing around the market at the minute. If you have the time and the inclination to get your head into it, you can access full range, very high fidelity sound reproduction at realistic sound pressure levels in any room. You’ll also be able to hear every example of poor recording technique in glaring detail. If you think Bonham’s squeaky pedal is annoying…you’re in for an interesting time going through your collection!
My Musical Fidelity M6sCD has digital DAC inputs, which is a brilliant feature for a two-channel system. CD playback, TV audio via optical and 4K player audio via S/PDIF, and it still has one spare input of each, USB as well.
What a lovely review Harley. Your’re last words in the video ‘ enjoy the music’ is the only thing that matters. As most audio enthusiast’s we tend to forget what really counts, speaking for myself of course. In the past i’ve owned a lot of audio stuff, as most enthusiast’s have had. For the last couple of years i am very happy with my Copland csa 28 hybrid amp and Copland CDA 266 HDCD player. The loudspeakers i use are custom build by Joachim Gerhard, some lovely mini monitors based on his Anima. Still thinking of a subwoofer, but that’s another issue.
Wonderful Harley, very detailed explanations. I have twin sabre DAC’s in my portable Onkyo player. It uses twin amps and DAC’s that gives a wonderfully detailed expansive sound that is also rich and warm. I have had other brands with different DAC’s but none have offered the same immersive experience.
Hello Harley, thank you for your experience with CD players, since I have several SACDs, I also use a Marantz SACD player, the SA30N. Its sound with SACD is significantly better than the comparable CD. As a DAC I use also an RME ADI 2DAC FS also in connection with an Audiolab 6000 CDT, you should compare this transporter with the project. Project: Display brightness = With the "Mode" button on the remote control you can adjust the display brightness in 10 levels and change the color mode (black background/white font or white background/black font)
Hi Klaus-Peter, thanks for your comment. If I get a chance, I will certainly try the Audiolab. The Project display in my video was on its darkest setting 😉. But as I said it is not really a deal breaker
Thanks for your videos, i found them really interesting and enjoyable; what's wonderful of this comparison is that cd players could offer hi-fi on a budget, if you can't afford expensive transport units. A good dac a cheap new transport and you're in music heaven .
OMG! You have a Quad 405 in your home office! The core of my home system is a Quad 34 / Quad 405 combination fed by a Thorens TD 160 all bought new in the late 70’s / early 80’s. They still work as well as the day I bought them. A pair of your Sibelius would fit perfectly, however I have gone local with 🇨🇦Totem Sttaf’s. I thoroughly enjoy your presentations and look forward to each one. This series has me revisiting my Marantz CD-67SE’s role. Your previous turntable series reinforced my Thorens TD 160 purchase.
That was very informative, im in the market for a new transport soon. The project was on a shortlist along with a cyrus cdt. I'll definitely be buying the project cdt.
At my +35 years with this chasing for better sound, ivé finally ended up with i call, some kind of "end-game" set-up. It took me a long time, first to understand the synergy effect in a system, the room itself, set-up and of course preferences. I found my end-game amps for 8 years ago (Lavardin: pre/mono), with their made up speakers to follow up their line of amps (Le Contoure Stabile 160 - floorstanders). I use to own the 1. gen of the Rega Saturn, and loved it for over a decade, as i bought it new. In between i owned a few other brands (CD Players), and the last one was the Linn Ikemi, which was in my oppinionmy second best sounding player ever. But that one got an error, which was to exspensive to fix. So i was out on the market again, but did already at the time know what i wanted. Becouse of my economic situation, i was looking for an used Saturn-R. For 3 weeks ago, i found one, and OMG...did i come home again? Ohh yes, i remember the analog sounding way it plays, and the feeling of music flowing out of my speakers. But this time, i found the player to be even better, than the first one (1. gen). But that is exactly the way Rega goes about. They do NOT release a new vs. of any thing, wittout an upgrade. The only different from the Saturn-R to the new one (Saturn mk III), is the front/cabinet, who now fits the range of components. My record player is also a Rega....It´s the P8/Apheta II combo, running through my Lehmann Black Cube SE II ref. phono stage, and the only thing i maybe would change down the line, is the riaa. And if i could afford it, i would go for the P10.....but that´s another story to tell. Thx for the great knowledge and time,. Peace and love from Denmark.
Thank you Harley, top result. I have always bought British kit, it's a no brainer. I only use CD now (1990's>), never owned a seperate dac, never had a streamer. Your office system says it all for me, cool :-) My office system is all within two large oak bookcase units. CD, top loader, dac inputs, lights off; integrated amplifier with passive pre-amplifier; bookshelf speakers designed and tuned by musicians. Exposure MCX CD (2008), Exposure amp, Neat Motive SX3. (Congratulations on your wonderful 'Sibelius', will try and get a listen) Well done sir, looking forward to more.
Great series that covers the revolutionary history of CD players'. Recommend for anybody interested in the history and development of CD payers. Thank you, Harley, for the time and effort produceing the brilliant CD players revolution series.
I love this mans investment in audio enhancement for all of us hi-fi (high end) audio fans. I remember the 70's and 80's and so I really appreciate the sharing of analog research and the separation of instruments and the education one can experience from this channel. Its therapeutic in many ways.Wish I could afford a pair of Sibelius SG's and so maybe a retirement goal.
I nostalgically recall my first CD player in the 8O's a front loading Marantz CD, built like a tank. This was the catalyst that opened the door for my love for anything digital. Today, I listen to my music through DSD512 high resolution standalone DAC with a linear power supply. 40 years on, kudos to CD's for still having a presence in the world of internet streamers, Spotify, Tidal, Deezer and et'al.
Ps. Great video from Pearl Acoustics, absolutely love your laid back approach! It will be great if you can do a Standalone DAC or DAC-Streamers video. Comparing the current cream of the crop or various budgets. I have been swayed towards China-Fi, they have some truly amazing stuff, such as Topping, SMSL, Eversolo etc (I recently upgraded from Topping E50 to Eversolo Z8). Also bring into the mix, the British contenders or European, such as Chord, Gustard, RME, Project, Cambridge, NAIM and et'al. It'll be really interesting to hear your views and what you make of it. Anyway my 2 cents!
Thanks for your kind words Jason, and for your contribution to the discussion. I will give DAC evaluation / streamer evaluation a thought; it’s a difficult topic with many people in Videoland giving it a try! Enjoy the music
Thanks for your kind message. With regards a warm sounding amplifier at the £2K mark, that’s so difficult to say. There’s so much choice and so many variables. Your, room, your system, your needs, features etc. . You can consider Chinese products, or equipment from Rega or IAG…. There’s a very big list to choose from. I cannot really offer any advice here. Sorry about that.
I really enjoyed this video and my reason for watching it is because I was told you comment on the Cyrus PSU XR. I use a Cyrus XR i9 amplifier which enjoys the same sonic characteristics that you remark upon regarding their XR CD player. The PSU XR is, of course, a complementary product to their amp as well. (Cyrus would have you buy a power supply with everything). My CD player is the Luxman D-03X, by the way, which is a lovely machine. I note that your verdict on the latest Cyrus power supply is that it does noticeably improve the sound, but not to a great degree. Cyrus says that their PSU-XR, SIGNIFICANTLY improves the sound of their partnered product. I guess I will have to demo it with the Cyrus amp, and my other independent sources.
Hi, thanks for your interesting comment and question. The word ‘significantly’ is a very powerful one. I personally could only use the word ‘slightly’. Whether my slightly is significant to someone else then, that’s great for them. My sound engineer heard a difference big enough to justify the additional cost for him. At the end of the day I guess that’s what it’s all about?
@@PearlAcoustics "My sound engineer heard a difference big enough to justify the additional cost for him." Perhaps your sound engineer is getting too generous a salary from you?! P.S. Are you hiring? 🙂
Thanks for showing these players and giving us your thoughts. I'm not in the market for a player, but am intrigued by all three. I tend to prefer Wolfson DACs over ESS Sabre ones, based upon my experience with my Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray players, The BDP-09FD (Wolfson DACs) and the BDP-88FD (ESS Sabre DACs). The Wolfsons are a bit fuller and richer, with more weight to the sound, whereas the ESS may have a bit more detail. I also noticed that when I increased the upsamling on the 88FD, the bottom thinned out some to my ears. And since my setup doubles as a home theater, I prefer the fuller sound of the 09FD. Perhaps the Rega Wolfsons aren't the same as in my 09, nor the Sabres in the Cyrus and Pro-Ject as in my 88FD; I guess I'd have to hear them with familiar material. Thanks again for this video.
A couples of weeks ago I have bought an Audiolab 9000CDT CD transport and it surpassed my wildest expectations. It is stunningly better than my other CD transports and CD players from the digital outputs. The way it pull out information from the silver discs is amazing, with no glare, harness or fatigue. Try one if you can :)
Fantastic review Harley. It would be good if you could update us in 2 or 3 years time as to how reliable the Pro-Ject has been. Looking forward to your part 4 video!
Those Cyrus cases must be one of the longest running HiFi case styles in history? The Rega just looks and feels like an esoteric expensive bit of Hi-Fi. I think it's beautiful. Even though the Cyrus cases are of real high quality in fit and finish, they do not give the user that special feel of the Rega. Top loaders do make placement an issue. The Cyrus can be stuck anywhere.
Very nice video series . I learnt a lot and thank you. I have a Cyrus Amp and a Power amp. I never had a Cyrus CD. I love sound of Cyrus. By the way , what is that speakers ? It looks like a flow standing , one way type.
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed the videos. The loudspeakers are made by us and are named after the Finish composer’Sibelius’. You can find out more on our website. PearlAcoustics.com
Great review, and I understand your choice this time. (I’m still puzzling over your choice of turntable.) I have an old Madrigal transport, and a newer universal player by Oppo (BDP 105D) and newer is better than older. Both sound the same through an external DAC, but the Oppo has a DAC built-in, with digital inputs and outputs. It certainly gives me more options. I just wish they would standardize the I2S / HDMI interface; I’m also seeing the AES balanced digital I/O missing on many new digital components. I get better sound though it, generally.
Thanks very kind. I too find it annoying that I2S is not standardised. In fact I am totally aligned on your comments (apart from my turntable choice, but it needs to be heard and seen to be fully appreciated) 😉
Also as much 'DAC rules over transports, sort of unifies them' is true, this got me reflecting and maybe there is something wrong with me (psychologically) as I've already got several players and STILL have this urge to try and get some more in! You know, a Gato Audio, a Yamaha 2100, maybe a Luxman. Ahhh choices
I think the Pro-ject may have won because it was left switched on. I was sceptical of audiophile advice to leave a player permanently switched on until I tried it and found the difference in performance remarkable. My own ageing Arcam player doesn't start to sound its best until it's been on for about 4 days. Of course, even more of an effect can be achieved if you turn the volume down and run it on repeat, but that's a quick way to wear a player out too, as I've found to my cost in the past!
Thank you for a fantastic series on the history of CD's and the evaluation of different CD players. This was one of the best presentations I have seen on this topic. Certainly a much watch for any CD enthusiast or audiophile. I would make a few comments as a non-audiophile but a simple music lover with aging ears but some experience. Firstly digital sound - CD quality is very good - it far exceeds the capability of your speakers or headphones. Those that can truly double blind a difference are a very small minority. Your part 2 subjects were obviously very skilled listeners (most are not) and they detected differences. Those differences seemed not to relate to the player but to the DAC. This would suggest the transport has minimal input but the DAC does. This would further suggest using a CD Player with an outboard DAC would be be the best choice- a transport would likely not change but a DAC may. ASR website reviews numerous DACs with performance that far exceeds human hearing so perhaps a sensible alternate to uber expensive players. So as a nonaudiophile my opinion may be questioned but I have numerous disc players - Bryston, Oppo, Sony, Technics etc as well as numerous DACS - Topping, Gustard - so a bit of experience.
Fantastics videos ! When I sold my traditional hifi system to a modern « all in one » KEF LS60 (speakers with integrated amp, streamer and dac), I compared my REGA Saturn mk2 to my Philips CD 723 (that I secondhand bought when a was a student) and… there were no difference ! So i sold the REGA and kept the cheaper one !😅
First I absolutely enjoy your video's always great content. I like how balanced your video's tend to be and your open mindset to let the chips fall where they may! Onkyo makes a very affordable CD player the 7030 for $299 it has been in production for some time now. Mine is older and uses a Wolfson DAC but I think the latest one uses AKM. When I bought it I bought it back in 2017 to keep by my bed to listen to guided meditation CD with headphones. Now it is part of my system. I got tired of purchasing used Sony Discman portables that would fail after a year of use.
Another reviewer thinks "musical" is a throw away word. My thoughts on it is, it's meant to be emotional. Or colored, but emotional might be too strong. I'm not a big fan of musicals, but when they're great it's emotional. "Colored" is a word that lends itself to "adding something." Maybe a tonal quality, but even that is different. Semantics, but what I don't like is using it then saying it is a generic word. It means something.
Musicality is mostly how the brain processes audio and your emotional/endochrine reaction to it. This is helped along at the hifi end by measurably good phasing, dynamics and transients to promote rythmical cues, a degree of even order harmonics, a linear response at all frequencies but with some slight boost and attentuation at specific frequency ranges. Or as the man says... Life like but with any harsh edges smoothed away:)
Spoken by a man with a true passion Harley. While you discussed using the analogue out's in this video almost exclusively, detailing the differences in internal DAC performance. From part-2, your listeners concluded that if using a digital out from the CD player, then the test was a wash. Noting the sound characteristics of the external DAC being the defining feature. With that in mind; if you have a DAC/Receiver that you're very happy with. Do you see any value (other than aesthetics) in big $$/€€ CD-Players/transports over a cheap blu-ray player or even a laptop/PC outputting over HDMI (ideally) or SPDIF? My transport is a Sony UBP-X700 Blu-Ray/SACD player. Simply because it was an available, modern SACD player with 4K HDR blu-ray capabilities. And with modern AVR's not having multi-channel analogue inputs, being able to send DSD 5.1 over HDMI was a 'must-have' feature. On my (admittedly modest) system: 'Dark Side of the Moon' in 5.1 almost brings a ear to your eyes and chills to your spine. Blows the mind of everyone I show it to. Keep up the great work and thoughtful content Jordan
Hi Jordan, thanks for your kind comment. If it is only sound quality you are looking for, then there is no need to spend a fortune. If it’s ease of use and or a piece of ‘nice’ looking equipment, then no. 😉
Marvelous video, well done and very informative. Please keep exploring this topic. As a CD aficionado I continue to buy CDs (every week!) and keep more several CD players on rotation in my system. I wish that you had also tested some more UK players, like the Linn Ikemi or the Meridian 508.24, as those were near the best machines ever made. Maybe next time. I wonder how they compare with the Pro-ject combo...
I was looking for a CD transport and tried the Project which you have here. I sent it back because it wouldn't read some CD's. In the end I finished up with the Audio Analogue CD drive. This unit is not prefect either as it has no optical out and a very small screen which is difficult to read from the listening position. It also causes two class d amps that I own to hum when it is in circuit through my speakers so I cannot use these amps with it. My best transport is actually an Emotiva EC3 CDP which has none of these problems. Regarding the Rega CDP I would buy the cheaper CDP that they make which has the same mech and use it with a separate Dac and save myself some money!
Whilst I like the latest & greatest such as with Cyrus, Pro-ject and Rega... I'd like to do this exact same review... but with older/vintage kit such as the Sony CDP-XB930 (Maybe this is where Pro-Ject got the 'puck' idea?) Philips CD Series and Maybe the Pioneer Stable Platter series - will see what I can get hold of! Harley, great viewing... Thanks!
The Black Ice is my end-game CD player. It sounds REALLY nice, especially after upgrading it with great NOS tubes, Duelund silver bypass capacitors, a Furutech IEC power inlet, and a Synergistic Research Master Fuse.
Will stick with my Roksan Kandy KD1 Mk3 CD player bought for £200 on eBay ,original price when it came out was £650 ,same price as the KA1 Mk3 amplifier which I bought new.
Having reflected on this, the critical element appears to be the DAC. So, the transport is secondary in the chain. The choice of transport may, therefore, depend largely on build quality. As many modern cd players / transports appear to have built in obsolescence (like most other things other, curiously, than cars, apart from their electronic components), presumably for mechanical issues, then DACs may be the way forward since, as far as I am aware, they have no moving parts. Of course, component quality will be paramount, so that suggests Chinese sourced kit is out.
Hi Martin, thanks for your comment. Although I am a big fan of local built… (our loudspeakers and soon to be realised tube amplifier) I have to say that when it comes to quality, much Chinese equipment is simply superb, you could even argue ‘the best’ and it’s the Chinese that are setting the quality standards in many areas these days. Especially on massed produced equipment. When I compare the quality of British QUAD equipment, there’s no doubt its manufacturing quality improved when they moved it to China.
Thanks for your encouraging response about Chinese manufacture. Do you have any thoughts about the DAC being the critical link in the chain whereas, build quality apart, the choice of CD transport might be largely academic. As for Quad, my 66/606/CD67 is all in fine working order after 30 years and only one service ten years ago.
@@martinpaling1989 hi Martin, like you, I also have a QUAD 405, CD67 and a 66 preamp and also the tuner. And they are great! Yes the DAC is important, but the difference between most good Dac’s is rather subtle. Not like different amplifiers. But, because there are so many good Dac’s on the market (it’s hard to find a bad one) that it mostly comes down to convenience. For example, have you seen the Eversolo Dac / pre Z8? It’s what I mean about outstanding quality at a very reasonable price. My 5000 EUR Dac pre from Sugden has more inputs but sound wise, is not really much better. I also like the QUAD Artera…. It uses a burr brown and works just fine. But most of all, it’s really nicely made.
I enjoyed your 3 videos. I own a Rega Apollo. I find the same issues with the cut outs to be at odd angles. The bad thing is with the Rega remote…it has a short communication distance from the listener to the transport. I have to get closer than my sitting area to command the remote than 6-7’ (feet) from the cd. As well, why red LEDs? My Pass amp & preamp are blue…my DAC (Schiit Yggdrasil) has white back lights which are kind of universal. Im being picky but honest with my feelings here. I also thought the Cambridge Audio Cd products work & sound quite good. Anyway thanks again. This was well done.
Fantastic three part series thank you so much I’m curious to know if you have a favorite CD player in the sub $200 range? I’m told if you can find a player with the 1541A DAC that’s the ticket. Any opinions? P.S. I’m not what I would consider an audiophile but rather a vintage stereo enthusiast. Thank you so much.
As a Musical Fidelity fan, I’m surprised one of their vintage players didn’t make your list. I’m thinking of the Nu-Vista 3D or A308 models in particular, which were considered reference standard in their day by many. I’ve been using the A3.2 with upgrades to the internals, including discreet opamps from Burson Audio. I’ll be keeping this as I’ve yet to hear a digital source to beat it, including some of the very best at Hi-Fi shows. Still can’t retrieve as much detail as my Linn turntable though.
Yes I had a Meridian 208 combo and later the M F NuVista player which sounded a bit better on certain discs but like you was poor compared to my LP set up
The Rega player has a snap on spindle which places a bit of stress inside the CD's hole. This isn't good for the longevity of the CD as it puts tension on the lacquer surface of the CD, leading to fatigue and possible fracturing of the sputtered aluminum layer, which is bound and protected by the laquer layer. I've come across quite a few used CDs with cracks inside the spindle hole. When these cracks spread into the information layer surface, they will forever damage the CD. I would always prefer a player which clamps the CD from the top over a player which has a captive tensioned spindle.
I think this was a great 3 part mini-series celebrating CDs/CD players. Sound quality of CDs, I feel, are not much appreciated. I have not heard these 3 players but would like to see all of the top brands to have at least one or two CD players in their catalog - one an affordable one and a second with SACD/CD playing capability. As of more recent releases, the top-loading CD player in Technics SA-C600 sounded great to me.
I liked your review of the CD players. Well done. However, for the combination of the Project units, you could also get a Metronome Le Player CD player. Have you looked into this CD player from France?
Thanks for the 3-part on CD, Harley. Finally someone who values the format. As to Cyrus lay-out, it always reminds me of these cheap plastic CDPs we had in the ‘90’s. They should really look into that. The Rega would be my winner of the 3 presented. But to be honest, give me a Yamaha CD-S2100 any day over these three. Same amount of money but so much more quality. Just my 0.02.
Great video..I have the Mk2 version of the re ga..love its sound..one issue the remote is not so responsive..needs to be aimed and pressed just so to get the Saturn to respond.
Thanks Ramar! I didn’t have the remote problem. I know that can be annoying. Have you tried using another remote, or changing the batteries 😉. It’s always a question as if it is the infrared receiver or the remote itself.
@@PearlAcoustics yep new batteries..no improvement..btw..the internal DAC has selectable filters..I'm curious if these settings affect the sound of the Saturn when used as an ordinary cdp? I can only adjust the filters in DAC mode via the remote..or does the rega default to a specific setting as a standalone cdp?
I own the Pro-ject RS2-T. I did not buy the Pro-ject DAC due to owning the Holo May KTE I was using so, the Pro-ject for me, was the obvious choice. I had to know if burning my CD's using a PC, then streaming them from a internal computer hard drive, then from a NAS was the same as using a high quality transport direct to DAC was different. It was. The drive mechanism on the Pro-ject is regarded as arguably the 'best'. What was/is annoying regarding the Pro-ject transport is its I2S output. Project's I2S output only works with the Project DAC! I was not aware of that when I bought it and really wanted to use I2S with the Holo May. The May DAC was very nice. Unfortunately, I got on loan the Allnic D10000 DAC, an OTL, OCL beast, loaded with tubes. When the Allnic D10000 found its way into my system partnered with the Pro-ject transport, we were transported. The D10000 using the USB input, is amazing. Adding a Waversa LAN/streamer adds another level of goodness. The Pro-ject transport, however, appears a little bit cleaner although the Waversa LAN makes a case for streaming. My wife slightly prefers the Pro-ject while I'm equally happy with either. Great video and thanks for sharing.
Thanks Michael for your very enlightening comment. Very interesting what you say about The ProJect’s I2S. I noticed that it didn’t work with an SMSL Dac and found that very disappointing. I didn’t realise it was only compatible with other ProJect equipment. 🙁. What a great solution you have come up with though. Enjoy the music, H
I use Sony CDP XB 920 QS which is connected via optical to my Technics Su g 700mk2 and my second setup via rca . Technics its digital amp so I dont need external dac for it . Both of those setups sound good so i belive internal dac in Sony is quiet good ( i would say it sounds warmer then dac in Technics) . I was thinking about changing my cd but to be honest there is nothing wrong with CDP and from what Ive reed about it it was almost top of the sony range at that time . Ive bought it in mint condition for 200euro few years ago and still can't find real reason to change it for something ( modern) thank you really interesting few episodes
Going way back Peter Aczel of The Audio Critic compared the sound of a Sony Discman to the then current Theta DAC. No difference was noted! The setup was a Boulder preamp/amp into Quad 63's. Makes one wonder about the purported claims for expensive DAC'S!
I still use my California Audio Labs CL-25 cd/dvd player. If you take the top off it seems like you're looking at an amplifier and not a cd player. It sounds like vinyl yet without all the bad stuff. It is the most dynamic player I have ever heard too bad those guys are gone.
Absolutely. I do use it and agree with you. For the comparison, I wanted to use the same cables. But I find the detail and timing with the I2S just outstanding
Hi, thanks for your kind appreciation. As far as SACD's are concerned, I am afraid I gave them a wide birth. I know many people rave about them but not every player can play them, the catalogue of SACD's is rather limited and I could not detect a major improvement, alongside a really good CD in a good CD player. But that is only my opinion.
I'd be interested in modifying the cheap Philips... The audio blind tests would make a great video. I'm sure it would be a difficult thing to film, along with copyright issues etc.. But watching someone with a 100% hit rate would be something to see.
I had a Burmester CD player with a loading mechanism just like the Pro-Jet's, just a lot more sleek- and premium-looking, with a price to match. The external fascia was all mirror-finish polished steel - you could almost get your 'fix' just watching it rather than listening to it. Alas, that's what eventually happened. You'd think that German engineering is exquisite. And it was. Until it wasn't. The bummer is that it started to act up just a few years (barely 6 or 7) down the road - hunting constantly with the odd CD here and there, alternating between "no CD found" or just spinning its wheel (no pun intended) trying to pin down the metadata of a track, failing and thus also never succeeding in playing any track.
Back in the 1990s I auditioned some Naim CD players - can't remember the model but it was the "half brick" one with a magnetic puck to hold the CD in place. It sounded great and was about £750 at the time. Then the sales guy said it could be upgraded with an external PS for another £700, so I had a listen to that. I was rather skeptical that a different PS could make any difference to the sound but it did! It was like listening to the sound source behind some curtains and the PS made a couple of the curtains disappear. The next model was a standalone full width £2000 player and that again removed a couple of curtains. There was a £1500 external PS for that, too, but it wasn't in stock so I didn't get a chance to here the difference, if any(!), it made. I don't understand how different power supplies can make a difference to the sound, but I definitely heard it. Great series of videos, thanks for sharing!
You know, call me what you will, but I think if you have to add half a thousand bucks of external PSU to a device, it wasn't designed right. The single most important thing is the last stage of the PSU -- the bit that takes whatever bulk rail and converts it to the DC voltage that an IC or motor requires. That last stage should be point-of-load -- as close as possible to the thing it's powering. For modern digital stuff, it might be 3.3v, or 1.8v, or less. For analog audio parts, it could be 3.3v, 5v, +/-9v, +/-12v, etc. It's usually rather low-current, low voltage. Motors and stuff like that aren't going to be fussy. They don't care if you're using dual isolated toroidal transformers with boutique capacitors, or dirt-cheap switching supplies that barely pass safety inspection. As long as it supplies approximately the right voltage at enough amps, it's _fine._ Digital bits don't care much, either. By definition, they're switching devices, and will create noise of their own every time they change state -- thousands to millions or even billions of times a second. Heroics on the supply here is like filling your toilet tank with purified water. The analog parts are critical, and need to be the cleanest, but at line levels, don't need much power. It needs to be stable, with as little noise and ripple as possible, and the tightest, shortest current loops possible to avoid picking up radiated noise from motors and digital stuff. The key point here is isolation -- filtering low-frequency ripple, and high-frequency noise, which are handled fairly adequately with, respectively, negative feedback and deliberate impedance between supply rails and the regulator (while making sure the average current needs are met). How any of this is to be better served by placing the source of power in a separate box, further away, and connected via a superfluous cable, is beyond me. In fact, to overcome the technical deficit of doing that, you would need to improve the point-of-load regulation and filtering, the act of doing so making it all the less important what's upstream. I know this verges on conspiracy talk, but it makes me wonder if the designs aren't intentionally shackled so that a difference _can_ be detected when the "optional" component is added. Especially if you have to plug it in to mains power anyway, like in the case of the Cyrus. Like..... whut? At least with an external PSU you're removing high-voltage mains from the inside of the box, and any potential inducted noise leakage. If you can't even claim that, seriously, _what is the point?_ Nonsense. All of it. It makes me skeptical that the thousands spent on the transport are even going to useful places, like over-engineered lasers that will last a lifetime under heavy use. Or does it just go to fancy boxes with pretentiously inadequate displays, and machined weights to stick on top of the disc (because a simple magnetic hub in the lid is too low-brow)? Sorry to rain on anyone's parade. By all means, like what you like. I just strongly prefer practical engineering over showmanship, and I have my doubts that the money spent on these is being put to good use.
Its not surprising that the +1-2dB Cyrus setup was preferred. Nevertheless the blind testing was the right way to go and that disclosure is appreciated. Its also quite amusing that all these £2500+ machines are all less convenient than a £400 Marantz machine. Now if only Project had put a transparent top on their machine.
Pro-ject Pre Box RS2 Digital - Dimming the display : Use button "mode" on the remote control to adjust brightness in 10 steps and display scheme: Black background + white font and vice versa.
My friend has a Cyrus transport, and I have to say that I really dislike the loading/unloading mechanism, as you alluded to when removing the CD. I personally simply wouldn’t consider it for that alone - it would annoy me every time I used it. You also mention the display on the Pro-ject and I agree - seems totally bonkers to have that shouting at you all the time, but I also find the Cyrus display very basic.
I’ll stick with my active Linn system. One remote for everything, good dac and a clear sound. Just need some ears younger than my 66 year old ones. Can’t upgrade those.
There you go, you answered your own question! Why did he pick the one with a PSU? Because it is louder, many times it has been shown that loudness equals better sound, hence the loudness wars! 😅
Hi thanks for your comment. What you say is very true, but we need to take into account that Pierre-Nicolas is an extremely skilled sound engineer with first class hearing. I compensated as best I could for the 1db increase during the blind switch over and he took that into account in longer playing sessions afterwards. But the improvement could be for a hundred reasons I guess. The important thing for PN was he preferred it with external power supply. That’s the business we are in, I guess…
@@PearlAcoustics @Pearl Acoustics Yes, you're right about, "The important thing for PN was he preferred it with external power supply. That’s the business we are in, I guess…"
I think you may have erred on the analysis of the Gryphon and Pro-Ject in suggesting that the transport mechanism in thePro-Ject is great because it is used in Gryphon. Perhaps, and very likely, Gryphon is grossly overpriced audio jewellery. The exceptional transport mechanisms are no longer in production - the last of the truly good ones was the Philips Pro2LF which I think stopped being manufactured 10 years ago. CEC still makes a belt drive transport as does Audio Note UK (who also stockpiled the Philips Pro2LF). Gryphon, like many simply buys off-the-shelf components and houses them in fancy casework and makes it look cool and charge a lot of money. Remember the ole Theta Data Universal - All they did was put a $299 Philips LD player inside their casework and added a $25 SPDIF output. They charged $5,000 - Stereophile's Robert Harley (now TAS) raved. People need to look at the quality of the parts inside and not just look at the logo or the heavy casework. I am reminded of those 1980s 4 cyl Mustangs - it may look like a Mustang - but you're not getting a Mustang.
Hi Austen, thank you for your comment and contribution to the topic. I had hoped that my argument was not ‘because the drive mechanism can be found in an expensive chassis, that it must be good’, rather ‘it seems to be of good quality And it has been chosen for use in super expensive devices’. I had a watch by the Swiss company Raymond Weil, it cost a lot of money but when it broke down just a few months after purchase my local watch maker showed me the movement inside (a cheap plastic quartz movement he could buy for less than 5USD)! So I am aligned with you on this. However, I truly do think the CD drive selected by Project does seem to be well made, and to my ears, does it’s job well enough.
Hi, to be honest, I have no preference, it purely depends on the design. Tubes can sound great but they can also be very disappointing. And you can always hook a cd player up to a tube preamplifier. I had an Ayon tube CD player / preamplifier. It was very impressive but also very, very expensive! I am sorry I cannot be of much more help.
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I've loved your cd player videos so much, I'm not even in the market for a cd player but I've really enjoyed your articulated opinions and hands on experiences with these devices, it's a shame that so few people focus on the whole user experience in their reviews
Thank you, that’s very kind.
I feel the very same way! :-) Much preferable to watching a movie, in fact.
What a great 3 part series. Looking forward to more videos! Thank you.
Thanks Dan!
After learning all this I will never think of a CD player the same way again 😊
😀
I never think of a CD player anymore.
@@lauralutzhoven5648 Of course. Yet you’re here. 👍
I am still a huge vinyl and CD guy. I don't do any streaming services. It was brought home recently when our internet service was down for over a week because of storms and upgrades. Yet I was able to keep enjoying music thank goodness to my library of music. Fortunately my power was on as well.
Hi Jim. I am with you on this, however, I do find streaming useful for experimenting with new artists and comparing classical music recordings of a given piece. Sometimes I discover things that I would not have, had I simply gone to an online record store.
I am also still invested in vinyl and CD. I have spotify because my wife and 3 sons use it probably 8-12 hours a day. It would be diffacult to own as much music as one has access to digital online.
Last year, I accidentally saw an offer and purchased an Arcam CD 192 in excellent condition. It has a dense thick sound and a deep scene. With a good CD player, you can ignore the fashion for vinyl.
But I can't completely abandon vinyl LPs, because you can find rare things there - as opposed to what is on the central shelves in record stores. Thank you for supporting our inspiration to use these things!
You’re very welcome. Thanks for your contribution to the topic
I have about 150 LPs which I listen to on my Pro-ject Debut Carbon ,as well as CDs and FLAC downloads .
I bought the Pro-Ject drive a good year ago, before that I had listened to ripped CDs on a good ripping system. The sound on my NOS-DAC is worlds better than before. Thank you for this great series of videos ☺.
Thanks Thomas, you’re very welcome
None of the CD players from the first part were multi-disc players. I am so happy with my 5 CD player with its big CD trays. Perhaps electronic components were compromised to save costs, but being able to load a whole evening's music into the tray and letting it run takes duration almost to a practical limit. (Aside from compressed media and the radio). And my aging ears can get used to more imperfections than I could in the good old days. I actually have several of these multi CD players, and I am sure at least one will outlive me when they start breaking.
Thanks for your contribution to the discussion
A lot of us have had terrible experinces in the 1990's with multi-disc players over time much more so than with single player machines.
Great shootout. I really liked that you went into detail about the whole user experience with each of them.
Thanks!
Excellent video as always! I love your passion, your knowledge. Amazing. Please continue. It’s a pleasure to watch your videos and you are a gift for the HiFi community. Thank you.
Thank you Thomas, you’re very kind
Thank you for this series, it’s good to see that cd players continue to have good options. I’m still using my old Myryad, and I might even dabble in case repair if the buttons get worse. It just has served me so well, I‘d have a hard time letting it go.
You’re very welcome. Hopefully, you’ll never have to part with Myryad. Enjoy the music.
I have had the Pro-ject cd box rs2 plus power supply for a year it was initially paired with the dac box 2 which sounded very nice . I recently swapped the dac box 2 for an 8 year old Weiss 202 dac .The improvement in detail , bass and dynamics is very noticeable over the Dac box 2 , the Wiess 202 is a very fine headphone amp to boot ,my old HD 650s have never sounded so good .I suspect the Pro-ject cd box rs 2 with power supply would give some truly high end players a run for their money .Thank you for a thoughtful review .
Thanks for your contribution to the topic
That Philips from part 2 looked great. The other ones look like boring boxes.
I really enjoyed this series Harley. I always preferred my LP12 to the Marantz CD players I've had (52 mk2 & 67 mk2) but I recently git a Cambridge Audio 340c Azur and it blew me away. A very enjoyable alternative to vinyl🎶
Thanks. So glad you enjoyed it. And thanks for adding your comment to the topic.
Watching you load the Pro-Ject I remembered the Micromega CD players from the 90s with the big perspex lid. They were absolutely wonderful, and great value. We sold a lot of those.
Thanks
Anyone who has ever had a front loader transport that fouled up will looove the Rega's manual top loading.
Indeed!
Rega is failing at cd players sorry to say. The apollo debacle the lack of support for the Planet 2000 forget Rega.
Having owned many many cd players over the years, some real high end and some of those mentioned here, I can honestly say the best sounding players (and best for reliability) I've had the pleasure of owning are the recent generation mid upwards Denon players. With their excellent Alpha processing circuitry (which really makes red book compact disc sound so naturally real) to their terrific transport mechanisms, build and value for money, these players are the ones I won't be changing. What's more is they are true minimalist cd/sacd/DSD5.6 high resolution players with no added xtras. So you get the very best sound out of the format.
Thanks interesting…
In todays world, a quality CD players must cost around $5000 or higher.
@@bubblehead5394 I don't completely disagree with you, but that's not been my experience! Having said that I've had my two Denons heavily modified. One of the players is within the price range that you mention, has had exactly the same mods done as my cheaper player at half the price, and that player in no way sounds inferior to the dearer model. Its all about good general design in the first place and a cd player having good power supplys, circuit designs etc.
@@jcarter3562 It's a CD player not an Electrostatically Supported Gyro Navigator (ESGN) on a nuclear submarine, lmao. I too have owed a handful of high-end CD players and highly revealing systems. In the end, its mostly hogwash.
no, you must know that bluerays from good producers perform better than most cd players
Such a joy watching to your thoughtful videos that are both erudite and presented with class. Although not in the market for some things discussed, watching is always a learning experience not just the technical details but the way you analyze a subject. Looking forward to more!
On topic, last year I purchased a Denon DCD A110 SACD player - wonderful device that is beautifully crafted inside and out. Am now, a firm believer that a good disc player DOES make an important difference in audio quality.
Thank you, you’re very kind. The big plus with CD is that you control the transfer of the data from the stored medium to the DAC, whereas one can never be sure with streaming.
Thank you so much for this Episode 💗
Always a pleasure to watch your new fantastique videos along with outpouring information
Have a good day 😊
Thank you, you’re very kind
If the best sonic performance is your goal (and the way your equipment looks is secondary to that goal), I would abandon domestic equipment completely.
Using balanced professional studio equipment and monitors is often cheaper than comparably accurate domestic kit. A 2-channel interface like the Focusrite Clarett 2i2 contains twin mono DACs and preamps that have more than ample sampling rates, dynamic range and frequency response to cope with the S/PDIF coax output (or if you want to go mad, the balanced AES3 output) of a pro transport like the Tascam CD500. Using a laptop and the Mix Control software that comes with the interface, just route the S/PDIF IN directly to “Monitor Out” for zero latency through the interface, select the source as the clock and select the correct sampling rate, and you’ve got a completely separate balanced pair (stereo LR) at the outputs. You can stay in the low noise +4dBu arena all the way through the ongoing signal chain if you want and use a pair of mono power amps (or a 2 channel amp) to drive a pair of near field studio monitors (ATC SCM7/LS3/5a or the like). Or go big and hook up a pair of active SCM25s.
Using professional audio gear gives you access to massive headroom for your speakers, typically +6dB. That gives you access to very high impedance passive speakers (11 Ohms+). Class D amps have come an awful long way and are now standard in most professional studios. No more massive transformers with their associated heat dissipation problems etc. Then there’s the software switchable sampling rates to make use of as well. And you can rack mount everything you need in a 19” 6U rack for neatness.
There’s no doubt that at the top end of the professional market you can spend the same and much more than you’d have to pay to buy domestic equipment but why would you?
There’s a lot of seriously good used professional audio gear sloshing around the market at the minute. If you have the time and the inclination to get your head into it, you can access full range, very high fidelity sound reproduction at realistic sound pressure levels in any room.
You’ll also be able to hear every example of poor recording technique in glaring detail. If you think Bonham’s squeaky pedal is annoying…you’re in for an interesting time going through your collection!
Dear Robert, thank you for your excellent contribution to the discussion!
My Musical Fidelity M6sCD has digital DAC inputs, which is a brilliant feature for a two-channel system. CD playback, TV audio via optical and 4K player audio via S/PDIF, and it still has one spare input of each, USB as well.
Absolutely
What a lovely review Harley. Your’re last words in the video ‘ enjoy the music’ is the only thing that matters. As most audio enthusiast’s we tend to forget what really counts, speaking for myself of course. In the past i’ve owned a lot of audio stuff, as most enthusiast’s have had. For the last couple of years i am very happy with my Copland csa 28 hybrid amp and Copland CDA 266 HDCD player. The loudspeakers i use are custom build by Joachim Gerhard, some lovely mini monitors based on his Anima. Still thinking of a subwoofer, but that’s another issue.
Thank you. You’re very kind. So pleased to hear you have settled on your ‘final’ set up 😉
Wonderful Harley, very detailed explanations. I have twin sabre DAC’s in my portable Onkyo player. It uses twin amps and DAC’s that gives a wonderfully detailed expansive sound that is also rich and warm. I have had other brands with different DAC’s but none have offered the same immersive experience.
You’re welcome
Hello Harley, thank you for your experience with CD players, since I have several SACDs, I also use a Marantz SACD player, the SA30N. Its sound with SACD is significantly better than the comparable CD. As a DAC I use also an RME ADI 2DAC FS also in connection with an Audiolab 6000 CDT, you should compare this transporter with the project.
Project: Display brightness = With the "Mode" button on the remote control you can adjust the display brightness in 10 levels and change the color mode (black background/white font or white background/black font)
Hi Klaus-Peter, thanks for your comment. If I get a chance, I will certainly try the Audiolab. The Project display in my video was on its darkest setting 😉. But as I said it is not really a deal breaker
Thanks for your videos, i found them really interesting and enjoyable; what's wonderful of this comparison is that cd players could offer hi-fi on a budget, if you can't afford expensive transport units. A good dac a cheap new transport and you're in music heaven .
Thank you for your kind words. Can only agree, these days, one can get a great sound for a rather minimal investment
OMG! You have a Quad 405 in your home office! The core of my home system is a Quad 34 / Quad 405 combination fed by a Thorens TD 160 all bought new in the late 70’s / early 80’s. They still work as well as the day I bought them. A pair of your Sibelius would fit perfectly, however I have gone local with 🇨🇦Totem Sttaf’s. I thoroughly enjoy your presentations and look forward to each one. This series has me revisiting my Marantz CD-67SE’s role. Your previous turntable series reinforced my Thorens TD 160 purchase.
So glad you appreciate my videos. Thanks
That was one of the most interesting reviews I've experienced.Thank you.👍👍👍
Thanks, so glad you appreciated it
That was very informative, im in the market for a new transport soon. The project was on a shortlist along with a cyrus cdt. I'll definitely be buying the project cdt.
Glad it helped!
At my +35 years with this chasing for better sound, ivé finally ended up with i call, some kind of "end-game" set-up. It took me a long time, first to understand the synergy effect in a system, the room itself, set-up and of course preferences.
I found my end-game amps for 8 years ago (Lavardin: pre/mono), with their made up speakers to follow up their line of amps (Le Contoure Stabile 160 - floorstanders).
I use to own the 1. gen of the Rega Saturn, and loved it for over a decade, as i bought it new.
In between i owned a few other brands (CD Players), and the last one was the Linn Ikemi, which was in my oppinionmy second best sounding player ever.
But that one got an error, which was to exspensive to fix. So i was out on the market again, but did already at the time know what i wanted. Becouse of my economic situation, i was looking for an used Saturn-R.
For 3 weeks ago, i found one, and OMG...did i come home again? Ohh yes, i remember the analog sounding way it plays, and the feeling of music flowing out of my speakers. But this time, i found the player to be even better, than the first one (1. gen). But that is exactly the way Rega goes about. They do NOT release a new vs. of any thing, wittout an upgrade. The only different from the Saturn-R to the new one (Saturn mk III), is the front/cabinet, who now fits the range of components.
My record player is also a Rega....It´s the P8/Apheta II combo, running through my Lehmann Black Cube SE II ref. phono stage, and the only thing i maybe would change down the line, is the riaa. And if i could afford it, i would go for the P10.....but that´s another story to tell.
Thx for the great knowledge and time,.
Peace and love from Denmark.
Thanks Thomas, you’re very kind. And thanks too for sharing your story.
Thoroughly enjoyable - fantastically researched & put together. Thank you
Thanks Martin!
Thank you Harley, top result. I have always bought British kit, it's a no brainer. I only use CD now (1990's>), never owned a seperate dac, never had a streamer. Your office system says it all for me, cool :-) My office system is all within two large oak bookcase units. CD, top loader, dac inputs, lights off; integrated amplifier with passive pre-amplifier; bookshelf speakers designed and tuned by musicians. Exposure MCX CD (2008), Exposure amp, Neat Motive SX3. (Congratulations on your wonderful 'Sibelius', will try and get a listen) Well done sir, looking forward to more.
Thank you, you’re very kind!
Great series that covers the revolutionary history of CD players'. Recommend for anybody interested in the history and development of CD payers. Thank you, Harley, for the time and effort produceing the brilliant CD players revolution series.
Thank you, you're very kind. Glad you enjoyed it.
I'd recommend looking for someone who has actual knowledge about the topic instead...
I love this mans investment in audio enhancement for all of us hi-fi (high end) audio fans. I remember the 70's and 80's and so I really appreciate the sharing of analog research and the separation of instruments and the education one can experience from this channel. Its therapeutic in many ways.Wish I could afford a pair of Sibelius SG's and so maybe a retirement goal.
So pleased you enjoy the channel. Best wishes to you.
Absolutely brilliant review of bespoke pieces of kit! Thank you so very much.
Thanks - glad you enjoyed it!
As usual, a well presented video.
Thanks.
Thanks 🙏
Brilliant review, I love CD players
Thanks Ricky! 🙏
I nostalgically recall my first CD player in the 8O's a front loading Marantz CD, built like a tank. This was the catalyst that opened the door for my love for anything digital. Today, I listen to my music through DSD512 high resolution standalone DAC with a linear power supply. 40 years on, kudos to CD's for still having a presence in the world of internet streamers, Spotify, Tidal, Deezer and et'al.
Ps. Great video from Pearl Acoustics, absolutely love your laid back approach! It will be great if you can do a Standalone DAC or DAC-Streamers video. Comparing the current cream of the crop or various budgets. I have been swayed towards China-Fi, they have some truly amazing stuff, such as Topping, SMSL, Eversolo etc (I recently upgraded from Topping E50 to Eversolo Z8). Also bring into the mix, the British contenders or European, such as Chord, Gustard, RME, Project, Cambridge, NAIM and et'al.
It'll be really interesting to hear your views and what you make of it. Anyway my 2 cents!
Thanks for your kind words Jason, and for your contribution to the discussion. I will give DAC evaluation / streamer evaluation a thought; it’s a difficult topic with many people in Videoland giving it a try!
Enjoy the music
Excellent review particularly of the Rega which I have.
For warmth, what would be an ideal amp choice around the £2K mark?
Thanks for your kind message. With regards a warm sounding amplifier at the £2K mark, that’s so difficult to say. There’s so much choice and so many variables. Your, room, your system, your needs, features etc. . You can consider Chinese products, or equipment from Rega or IAG…. There’s a very big list to choose from. I cannot really offer any advice here. Sorry about that.
I really enjoyed this video and my reason for watching it is because I was told you comment on the Cyrus PSU XR. I use a Cyrus XR i9 amplifier which enjoys the same sonic characteristics that you remark upon regarding their XR CD player. The PSU XR is, of course, a complementary product to their amp as well. (Cyrus would have you buy a power supply with everything). My CD player is the Luxman D-03X, by the way, which is a lovely machine. I note that your verdict on the latest Cyrus power supply is that it does noticeably improve the sound, but not to a great degree. Cyrus says that their PSU-XR, SIGNIFICANTLY improves the sound of their partnered product. I guess I will have to demo it with the Cyrus amp, and my other independent sources.
Hi, thanks for your interesting comment and question. The word ‘significantly’ is a very powerful one. I personally could only use the word ‘slightly’. Whether my slightly is significant to someone else then, that’s great for them. My sound engineer heard a difference big enough to justify the additional cost for him. At the end of the day I guess that’s what it’s all about?
@@PearlAcoustics "My sound engineer heard a difference big enough to justify the additional cost for him." Perhaps your sound engineer is getting too generous a salary from you?!
P.S. Are you hiring? 🙂
@@jlaurson he’s self employed and in demand! 😀
Really excellent, an activity well beyond the reach of others, thank you for your continued efforts.
You’re very welcome! Thanks
Thanks for showing these players and giving us your thoughts. I'm not in the market for a player, but am intrigued by all three. I tend to prefer Wolfson DACs over ESS Sabre ones, based upon my experience with my Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray players, The BDP-09FD (Wolfson DACs) and the BDP-88FD (ESS Sabre DACs). The Wolfsons are a bit fuller and richer, with more weight to the sound, whereas the ESS may have a bit more detail. I also noticed that when I increased the upsamling on the 88FD, the bottom thinned out some to my ears. And since my setup doubles as a home theater, I prefer the fuller sound of the 09FD. Perhaps the Rega Wolfsons aren't the same as in my 09, nor the Sabres in the Cyrus and Pro-Ject as in my 88FD; I guess I'd have to hear them with familiar material. Thanks again for this video.
You’re very welcome Charles! Thanks for your comment
A couples of weeks ago I have bought an Audiolab 9000CDT CD transport and it surpassed my wildest expectations. It is stunningly better than my other CD transports and CD players from the digital outputs. The way it pull out information from the silver discs is amazing, with no glare, harness or fatigue.
Try one if you can :)
Thanks for your comment and contribution to the discussion. And for the tip!
Loved the serious. Im looking a cd player for my Ls 50 kef. Not sure what to go for.
I thought of the rega appollo cd player.
@@Blu3B34R The Rega should be fine. Enjoy.
Have you measured this information. Remember it's either a 1 or a 0. Where would the harshness and glare come from. It's a transport !
Very good!
Love the CD Revolution mini series, really enjoyed it 👍🏻
So pleased!
Fantastic review Harley. It would be good if you could update us in 2 or 3 years time as to how reliable the Pro-Ject has been. Looking forward to your part 4 video!
I certainly will! You can always reach out to me in 2025!
I have a CYRUS cd i along with the PSXR-2. I’ve had it for 5 years now and I’m never selling it. Enough said. ❤
That’s great!
I have a Cyrus cd transport and a 8a amplifier plus psxr2 power supply. I never use them, they are in a cupboard gathering dust. Time for eBay.
Re: Display dimming.
The remote for Regas have a ‘Display’ button that turns the display on and off.
Indeed, thanks
Those Cyrus cases must be one of the longest running HiFi case styles in history? The Rega just looks and feels like an esoteric expensive bit of Hi-Fi. I think it's beautiful. Even though the Cyrus cases are of real high quality in fit and finish, they do not give the user that special feel of the Rega. Top loaders do make placement an issue. The Cyrus can be stuck anywhere.
Indeed
Fantastic information Harley thanks for your help
You’re very welcome
Very nice video series . I learnt a lot and thank you.
I have a Cyrus Amp and a Power amp. I never had a Cyrus CD. I love sound of Cyrus.
By the way , what is that speakers ? It looks like a flow standing , one way type.
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed the videos. The loudspeakers are made by us and are named after the Finish composer’Sibelius’. You can find out more on our website. PearlAcoustics.com
Great review, and I understand your choice this time. (I’m still puzzling over your choice of turntable.) I have an old Madrigal transport, and a newer universal player by Oppo (BDP 105D) and newer is better than older. Both sound the same through an external DAC, but the Oppo has a DAC built-in, with digital inputs and outputs. It certainly gives me more options. I just wish they would standardize the I2S / HDMI interface; I’m also seeing the AES balanced digital I/O missing on many new digital components. I get better sound though it, generally.
Thanks very kind. I too find it annoying that I2S is not standardised. In fact I am totally aligned on your comments (apart from my turntable choice, but it needs to be heard and seen to be fully appreciated) 😉
On the Pro-Ject players I think the remote allows you to turn off the display.
Unfortunately not on mine. Maybe on the new ones…
It's lights off for me too! Very nice video!
Thanks 😀👍
Great one Harley, thoroughly enjoyed the series cheers.
Also as much 'DAC rules over transports, sort of unifies them' is true, this got me reflecting and maybe there is something wrong with me (psychologically) as I've already got several players and STILL have this urge to try and get some more in! You know, a Gato Audio, a Yamaha 2100, maybe a Luxman. Ahhh choices
Awesome, thank you!
I have heavily modified Naim CD3 , external PSU etc etc, it sound wonderful and the reason I got into CD in 2004. Loved this 3 part listening review 🙂
So glad you enjoyed it Jonathan
I think the Pro-ject may have won because it was left switched on. I was sceptical of audiophile advice to leave a player permanently switched on until I tried it and found the difference in performance remarkable. My own ageing Arcam player doesn't start to sound its best until it's been on for about 4 days. Of course, even more of an effect can be achieved if you turn the volume down and run it on repeat, but that's a quick way to wear a player out too, as I've found to my cost in the past!
Thanks for your comment. Of course there are always risks in leaving equipment on day and night.
Thank you for a fantastic series on the history of CD's and the evaluation of different CD players. This was one of the best presentations I have seen on this topic. Certainly a much watch for any CD enthusiast or audiophile. I would make a few comments as a non-audiophile but a simple music lover with aging ears but some experience. Firstly digital sound - CD quality is very good - it far exceeds the capability of your speakers or headphones. Those that can truly double blind a difference are a very small minority. Your part 2 subjects were obviously very skilled listeners (most are not) and they detected differences. Those differences seemed not to relate to the player but to the DAC. This would suggest the transport has minimal input but the DAC does. This would further suggest using a CD Player with an outboard DAC would be be the best choice- a transport would likely not change but a DAC may. ASR website reviews numerous DACs with performance that far exceeds human hearing so perhaps a sensible alternate to uber expensive players. So as a nonaudiophile my opinion may be questioned but I have numerous disc players - Bryston, Oppo, Sony, Technics etc as well as numerous DACS - Topping, Gustard - so a bit of experience.
Thank you very much for your kind words and for your interesting contribution to the discussion. Glad you enjoyed the series.
Fantastics videos ! When I sold my traditional hifi system to a modern « all in one » KEF LS60 (speakers with integrated amp, streamer and dac), I compared my REGA Saturn mk2 to my Philips CD 723 (that I secondhand bought when a was a student) and… there were no difference ! So i sold the REGA and kept the cheaper one !😅
Thanks for your compliments and also for your interesting back story.
First I absolutely enjoy your video's always great content. I like how balanced your video's tend to be and your open mindset to let the chips fall where they may! Onkyo makes a very affordable CD player the 7030 for $299 it has been in production for some time now. Mine is older and uses a Wolfson DAC but I think the latest one uses AKM. When I bought it I bought it back in 2017 to keep by my bed to listen to guided meditation CD with headphones. Now it is part of my system. I got tired of purchasing used Sony Discman portables that would fail after a year of use.
Thank you for your kind words. Your Onkyo CD player sounds great value for money.
He's back! Grab the popcorn!! Harley, how do you define the word "musical"? I have my own ideas.
Hi Charles. Good question. I suppose ‘life like but with any harsh edges smoothed away’. Does that help?
Another reviewer thinks "musical" is a throw away word. My thoughts on it is, it's meant to be emotional. Or colored, but emotional might be too strong. I'm not a big fan of musicals, but when they're great it's emotional. "Colored" is a word that lends itself to "adding something." Maybe a tonal quality, but even that is different. Semantics, but what I don't like is using it then saying it is a generic word. It means something.
Yes your thoughts helped.
Not my words but .. "Musicality is the rhythm and timing that puts emotional meaning into the music."
Musicality is mostly how the brain processes audio and your emotional/endochrine reaction to it. This is helped along at the hifi end by measurably good phasing, dynamics and transients to promote rythmical cues, a degree of even order harmonics, a linear response at all frequencies but with some slight boost and attentuation at specific frequency ranges. Or as the man says... Life like but with any harsh edges smoothed away:)
Spoken by a man with a true passion Harley.
While you discussed using the analogue out's in this video almost exclusively, detailing the differences in internal DAC performance. From part-2, your listeners concluded that if using a digital out from the CD player, then the test was a wash. Noting the sound characteristics of the external DAC being the defining feature.
With that in mind; if you have a DAC/Receiver that you're very happy with. Do you see any value (other than aesthetics) in big $$/€€ CD-Players/transports over a cheap blu-ray player or even a laptop/PC outputting over HDMI (ideally) or SPDIF? My transport is a Sony UBP-X700 Blu-Ray/SACD player. Simply because it was an available, modern SACD player with 4K HDR blu-ray capabilities. And with modern AVR's not having multi-channel analogue inputs, being able to send DSD 5.1 over HDMI was a 'must-have' feature.
On my (admittedly modest) system: 'Dark Side of the Moon' in 5.1 almost brings a ear to your eyes and chills to your spine. Blows the mind of everyone I show it to.
Keep up the great work and thoughtful content
Jordan
Hi Jordan, thanks for your kind comment. If it is only sound quality you are looking for, then there is no need to spend a fortune. If it’s ease of use and or a piece of ‘nice’ looking equipment, then no. 😉
After the last video I'd just get something cheap with digital connectivity and worry about analogue outputs with a good DAC later down the road.
👍
Marvelous video, well done and very informative. Please keep exploring this topic. As a CD aficionado I continue to buy CDs (every week!) and keep more several CD players on rotation in my system. I wish that you had also tested some more UK players, like the Linn Ikemi or the Meridian 508.24, as those were near the best machines ever made. Maybe next time. I wonder how they compare with the Pro-ject combo...
Thanks for your very kind appreciation. It would indeed be very interesting to hear a Linn and equivalent US top of the range.
No,please! This video is not informative,but confusing! I wish people could get education and learn about analog and digital principles!
I was looking for a CD transport and tried the Project which you have here. I sent it back because it wouldn't read some CD's. In the end I finished up with the Audio Analogue CD drive. This unit is not prefect either as it has no optical out and a very small screen which is difficult to read from the listening position. It also causes two class d amps that I own to hum when it is in circuit through my speakers so I cannot use these amps with it. My best transport is actually an Emotiva EC3 CDP which has none of these problems. Regarding the Rega CDP I would buy the cheaper CDP that they make which has the same mech and use it with a separate Dac and save myself some money!
Thanks Michael. What a shame you had problems with your cd transport. So far, mine has behaved perfectly
Whilst I like the latest & greatest such as with Cyrus, Pro-ject and Rega... I'd like to do this exact same review... but with older/vintage kit such as the Sony CDP-XB930 (Maybe this is where Pro-Ject got the 'puck' idea?) Philips CD Series and Maybe the Pioneer Stable Platter series - will see what I can get hold of!
Harley, great viewing... Thanks!
Thanks for your kind appreciation. It would be fantastic to hear how you get on when comparing… enjoy
The Black Ice is my end-game CD player. It sounds REALLY nice, especially after upgrading it with great NOS tubes, Duelund silver bypass capacitors, a Furutech IEC power inlet, and a Synergistic Research Master Fuse.
Sounds very intriguing!
Lovely series of videos, as always. Thank you for your effort.
You’re very welcome. Thanks
Will stick with my Roksan Kandy KD1 Mk3 CD player bought for £200 on eBay ,original price when it came out was £650 ,same price as the KA1 Mk3 amplifier which I bought new.
That was a bargain!
Having reflected on this, the critical element appears to be the DAC. So, the transport is secondary in the chain. The choice of transport may, therefore, depend largely on build quality. As many modern cd players / transports appear to have built in obsolescence (like most other things other, curiously, than cars, apart from their electronic components), presumably for mechanical issues, then DACs may be the way forward since, as far as I am aware, they have no moving parts. Of course, component quality will be paramount, so that suggests Chinese sourced kit is out.
Hi Martin, thanks for your comment. Although I am a big fan of local built… (our loudspeakers and soon to be realised tube amplifier) I have to say that when it comes to quality, much Chinese equipment is simply superb, you could even argue ‘the best’ and it’s the Chinese that are setting the quality standards in many areas these days. Especially on massed produced equipment. When I compare the quality of British QUAD equipment, there’s no doubt its manufacturing quality improved when they moved it to China.
Thanks for your encouraging response about Chinese manufacture. Do you have any thoughts about the DAC being the critical link in the chain whereas, build quality apart, the choice of CD transport might be largely academic. As for Quad, my 66/606/CD67 is all in fine working order after 30 years and only one service ten years ago.
@@martinpaling1989 hi Martin, like you, I also have a QUAD 405, CD67 and a 66 preamp and also the tuner. And they are great! Yes the DAC is important, but the difference between most good Dac’s is rather subtle. Not like different amplifiers. But, because there are so many good Dac’s on the market (it’s hard to find a bad one) that it mostly comes down to convenience. For example, have you seen the Eversolo Dac / pre Z8? It’s what I mean about outstanding quality at a very reasonable price. My 5000 EUR Dac pre from Sugden has more inputs but sound wise, is not really much better. I also like the QUAD Artera…. It uses a burr brown and works just fine. But most of all, it’s really nicely made.
I enjoyed your 3 videos. I own a Rega Apollo. I find the same issues with the cut outs to be at odd angles. The bad thing is with the Rega remote…it has a short communication distance from the listener to the transport. I have to get closer than my sitting area to command the remote than 6-7’ (feet) from the cd. As well, why red LEDs? My Pass amp & preamp are blue…my DAC (Schiit Yggdrasil) has white back lights which are kind of universal. Im being picky but honest with my feelings here. I also thought the Cambridge Audio Cd products work & sound quite good. Anyway thanks again. This was well done.
Thanks for your comment and contribution to the topic
just picked up Kenwood DP200 CD player for 30 bucks,sounds excellent.
Fantastic three part series thank you so much I’m curious to know if you have a favorite CD player in the sub $200 range? I’m told if you can find a player with the 1541A DAC that’s the ticket. Any opinions? P.S. I’m not what I would consider an audiophile but rather a vintage stereo enthusiast. Thank you so much.
Why not buy a good blue ray instead? They have a more advanced laser and perform better than most cd players!
@@GeirRssaak Ha! 3 months later. I bought a Rotel RCD 975 and couldn’t be happier. Thank you.
As a Musical Fidelity fan, I’m surprised one of their vintage players didn’t make your list. I’m thinking of the Nu-Vista 3D or A308 models in particular, which were considered reference standard in their day by many.
I’ve been using the A3.2 with upgrades to the internals, including discreet opamps from Burson Audio. I’ll be keeping this as I’ve yet to hear a digital source to beat it, including some of the very best at Hi-Fi shows. Still can’t retrieve as much detail as my Linn turntable though.
Thanks for your comment Mark
Yes I had a Meridian 208 combo and later the M F NuVista player which sounded a bit better on certain discs but like you was poor compared to my LP set up
The Rega player has a snap on spindle which places a bit of stress inside the CD's hole. This isn't good for the longevity of the CD as it puts tension on the lacquer surface of the CD, leading to fatigue and possible fracturing of the sputtered aluminum layer, which is bound and protected by the laquer layer. I've come across quite a few used CDs with cracks inside the spindle hole. When these cracks spread into the information layer surface, they will forever damage the CD. I would always prefer a player which clamps the CD from the top over a player which has a captive tensioned spindle.
That’s a very interesting point that I had not even considered. Thanks for sharing
Done. Watched the three. Very engaging triptych, as always.👏👏
Thanks!
I think this was a great 3 part mini-series celebrating CDs/CD players. Sound quality of CDs, I feel, are not much appreciated. I have not heard these 3 players but would like to see all of the top brands to have at least one or two CD players in their catalog - one an affordable one and a second with SACD/CD playing capability. As of more recent releases, the top-loading CD player in Technics SA-C600 sounded great to me.
Thanks your kind appreciation. Indeed, I believe you’re right
I liked your review of the CD players. Well done. However, for the combination of the Project units, you could also get a Metronome Le Player CD player. Have you looked into this CD player from France?
Hi Manfred, thanks for your kind appreciation. No, I do not know the Metronome Le Player. I will look it up. Thanks for the tip.
👍😃. Excellent video, Mr. Lovegrove! Most interesting! - Heather
Thank you Heather.
Thanks for the 3-part on CD, Harley. Finally someone who values the format.
As to Cyrus lay-out, it always reminds me of these cheap plastic CDPs we had in the ‘90’s. They should really look into that.
The Rega would be my winner of the 3 presented.
But to be honest, give me a Yamaha CD-S2100 any day over these three. Same amount of money but so much more quality. Just my 0.02.
Yamaha CD-S2100?
@@krihanek117 My bad. Thanks!
Thanks for your kind appreciation. And thanks for your contribution to the discussion
@@PearlAcoustics You’re welcome, Harley. Been following you for quite a while now. All the while saving up for a pair of the Sibelius.
@@musiclassica 😀👍 so glad you enjoy my videos. Best wishes, H
Great video..I have the Mk2 version of the re ga..love its sound..one issue the remote is not so responsive..needs to be aimed and pressed just so to get the Saturn to respond.
Thanks Ramar! I didn’t have the remote problem. I know that can be annoying. Have you tried using another remote, or changing the batteries 😉. It’s always a question as if it is the infrared receiver or the remote itself.
@@PearlAcoustics yep new batteries..no improvement..btw..the internal DAC has selectable filters..I'm curious if these settings affect the sound of the Saturn when used as an ordinary cdp? I can only adjust the filters in DAC mode via the remote..or does the rega default to a specific setting as a standalone cdp?
I own the Pro-ject RS2-T. I did not buy the Pro-ject DAC due to owning the Holo May KTE I was using so, the Pro-ject for me, was the obvious choice. I had to know if burning my CD's using a PC, then streaming them from a internal computer hard drive, then from a NAS was the same as using a high quality transport direct to DAC was different. It was. The drive mechanism on the Pro-ject is regarded as arguably the 'best'. What was/is annoying regarding the Pro-ject transport is its I2S output. Project's I2S output only works with the Project DAC! I was not aware of that when I bought it and really wanted to use I2S with the Holo May.
The May DAC was very nice. Unfortunately, I got on loan the Allnic D10000 DAC, an OTL, OCL beast, loaded with tubes. When the Allnic D10000 found its way into my system partnered with the Pro-ject transport, we were transported. The D10000 using the USB input, is amazing. Adding a Waversa LAN/streamer adds another level of goodness. The Pro-ject transport, however, appears a little bit cleaner although the Waversa LAN makes a case for streaming. My wife slightly prefers the Pro-ject while I'm equally happy with either.
Great video and thanks for sharing.
Thanks Michael for your very enlightening comment. Very interesting what you say about The ProJect’s I2S. I noticed that it didn’t work with an SMSL Dac and found that very disappointing. I didn’t realise it was only compatible with other ProJect equipment. 🙁. What a great solution you have come up with though.
Enjoy the music,
H
HDMI cable can be custom rewired to match both ends.
Wait for the upcoming Schiit Urd transport with an excellent Unison USB-C output.
👍
All I can say is Thank god I’m a philistine and my technics sl whatever cd player seems fine to me!
👍
I have a Naim CD5X loading the CD is simplicity itself. and with a hi cap it sounds wonderful.
these things are the important elements in the discussion
I use Sony CDP XB 920 QS which is connected via optical to my Technics Su g 700mk2 and my second setup via rca . Technics its digital amp so I dont need external dac for it . Both of those setups sound good so i belive internal dac in Sony is quiet good ( i would say it sounds warmer then dac in Technics) . I was thinking about changing my cd but to be honest there is nothing wrong with CDP and from what Ive reed about it it was almost top of the sony range at that time . Ive bought it in mint condition for 200euro few years ago and still can't find real reason to change it for something ( modern) thank you really interesting few episodes
You’re very welcome
Going way back Peter Aczel of The Audio Critic compared the sound of a Sony Discman to the then current Theta DAC. No difference was noted! The setup was a Boulder preamp/amp into Quad 63's. Makes one wonder about the purported claims for expensive DAC'S!
Once a certain quality level has been achieved. There can be differences but not necessarily‘improvements’
I still use my California Audio Labs CL-25 cd/dvd player. If you take the top off it seems like you're looking at an amplifier and not a cd player. It sounds like vinyl yet without all the bad stuff. It is the most dynamic player I have ever heard too bad those guys are gone.
Wow, I don’t know that one.
@@PearlAcoustics oh its long gone. BTW I bought a cd from you ages ago. Piano music in a church. Still have it!
@@davidjones7544 thanks for your comment! Glad you still have the cd!
Use the i2s connection between transport and dac on the project. Far superior.
Absolutely. I do use it and agree with you. For the comparison, I wanted to use the same cables. But I find the detail and timing with the I2S just outstanding
Thanks once again for such a great comparison. I really would like to hear your opinion on SACD's.
Hi, thanks for your kind appreciation. As far as SACD's are concerned, I am afraid I gave them a wide birth. I know many people rave about them but not every player can play them, the catalogue of SACD's is rather limited and I could not detect a major improvement, alongside a really good CD in a good CD player. But that is only my opinion.
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you very much for your kind response.
I'd be interested in modifying the cheap Philips...
The audio blind tests would make a great video. I'm sure it would be a difficult thing to film, along with copyright issues etc.. But watching someone with a 100% hit rate would be something to see.
true
I had a Burmester CD player with a loading mechanism just like the Pro-Jet's, just a lot more sleek- and premium-looking, with a price to match. The external fascia was all mirror-finish polished steel - you could almost get your 'fix' just watching it rather than listening to it. Alas, that's what eventually happened. You'd think that German engineering is exquisite. And it was. Until it wasn't. The bummer is that it started to act up just a few years (barely 6 or 7) down the road - hunting constantly with the odd CD here and there, alternating between "no CD found" or just spinning its wheel (no pun intended) trying to pin down the metadata of a track, failing and thus also never succeeding in playing any track.
What a shame, and couldn’t it be fixed?
Could that be as simple (not that it should have happened in the first place) as a bum capacitator somewhere in the mix?
Back in the 1990s I auditioned some Naim CD players - can't remember the model but it was the "half brick" one with a magnetic puck to hold the CD in place. It sounded great and was about £750 at the time. Then the sales guy said it could be upgraded with an external PS for another £700, so I had a listen to that. I was rather skeptical that a different PS could make any difference to the sound but it did! It was like listening to the sound source behind some curtains and the PS made a couple of the curtains disappear. The next model was a standalone full width £2000 player and that again removed a couple of curtains. There was a £1500 external PS for that, too, but it wasn't in stock so I didn't get a chance to here the difference, if any(!), it made. I don't understand how different power supplies can make a difference to the sound, but I definitely heard it. Great series of videos, thanks for sharing!
Thanks Steve! Indeed some things remain a mystery! Glad you enjoyed it
I have a Naim CD5X and built my own HI CAP using the Naim circuit and it DOES make a big difference.
You know, call me what you will, but I think if you have to add half a thousand bucks of external PSU to a device, it wasn't designed right.
The single most important thing is the last stage of the PSU -- the bit that takes whatever bulk rail and converts it to the DC voltage that an IC or motor requires. That last stage should be point-of-load -- as close as possible to the thing it's powering. For modern digital stuff, it might be 3.3v, or 1.8v, or less. For analog audio parts, it could be 3.3v, 5v, +/-9v, +/-12v, etc. It's usually rather low-current, low voltage.
Motors and stuff like that aren't going to be fussy. They don't care if you're using dual isolated toroidal transformers with boutique capacitors, or dirt-cheap switching supplies that barely pass safety inspection. As long as it supplies approximately the right voltage at enough amps, it's _fine._
Digital bits don't care much, either. By definition, they're switching devices, and will create noise of their own every time they change state -- thousands to millions or even billions of times a second. Heroics on the supply here is like filling your toilet tank with purified water.
The analog parts are critical, and need to be the cleanest, but at line levels, don't need much power. It needs to be stable, with as little noise and ripple as possible, and the tightest, shortest current loops possible to avoid picking up radiated noise from motors and digital stuff. The key point here is isolation -- filtering low-frequency ripple, and high-frequency noise, which are handled fairly adequately with, respectively, negative feedback and deliberate impedance between supply rails and the regulator (while making sure the average current needs are met).
How any of this is to be better served by placing the source of power in a separate box, further away, and connected via a superfluous cable, is beyond me. In fact, to overcome the technical deficit of doing that, you would need to improve the point-of-load regulation and filtering, the act of doing so making it all the less important what's upstream.
I know this verges on conspiracy talk, but it makes me wonder if the designs aren't intentionally shackled so that a difference _can_ be detected when the "optional" component is added. Especially if you have to plug it in to mains power anyway, like in the case of the Cyrus. Like..... whut? At least with an external PSU you're removing high-voltage mains from the inside of the box, and any potential inducted noise leakage. If you can't even claim that, seriously, _what is the point?_
Nonsense. All of it. It makes me skeptical that the thousands spent on the transport are even going to useful places, like over-engineered lasers that will last a lifetime under heavy use. Or does it just go to fancy boxes with pretentiously inadequate displays, and machined weights to stick on top of the disc (because a simple magnetic hub in the lid is too low-brow)?
Sorry to rain on anyone's parade. By all means, like what you like. I just strongly prefer practical engineering over showmanship, and I have my doubts that the money spent on these is being put to good use.
Its not surprising that the +1-2dB Cyrus setup was preferred. Nevertheless the blind testing was the right way to go and that disclosure is appreciated.
Its also quite amusing that all these £2500+ machines are all less convenient than a £400 Marantz machine. Now if only Project had put a transparent top on their machine.
A very interesting angle… thanks very much for your comment
I use a Philips DVD player and Schiit Gumby DAC to spin discs. Sounds great...but no better than Tidal streamed through the same DAC.
Indeed, it can be hard to hear a difference, and if you can, it's often down to the fact that the Tidal version might be a re-master.
Pro-ject Pre Box RS2 Digital - Dimming the display : Use button "mode" on the remote control to adjust brightness in 10 steps and display scheme: Black
background + white font and vice versa.
Absolutely… but I find that even at the lowest setting. It’s still quite bright.
My friend has a Cyrus transport, and I have to say that I really dislike the loading/unloading mechanism, as you alluded to when removing the CD. I personally simply wouldn’t consider it for that alone - it would annoy me every time I used it. You also mention the display on the Pro-ject and I agree - seems totally bonkers to have that shouting at you all the time, but I also find the Cyrus display very basic.
Thanks for your comment. Especially as we are aligned 😉
I’ll stick with my active Linn system. One remote for everything, good dac and a clear sound. Just need some ears younger than my 66 year old ones. Can’t upgrade those.
Indeed, thanks for your comment. nothing upgrades ears.
There you go, you answered your own question! Why did he pick the one with a PSU? Because it is louder, many times it has been shown that loudness equals better sound, hence the loudness wars! 😅
Hi thanks for your comment. What you say is very true, but we need to take into account that Pierre-Nicolas is an extremely skilled sound engineer with first class hearing. I compensated as best I could for the 1db increase during the blind switch over and he took that into account in longer playing sessions afterwards. But the improvement could be for a hundred reasons I guess. The important thing for PN was he preferred it with external power supply. That’s the business we are in, I guess…
@@PearlAcoustics @Pearl Acoustics Yes, you're right about, "The important thing for PN was he preferred it with external power supply. That’s the business we are in, I guess…"
I think you may have erred on the analysis of the Gryphon and Pro-Ject in suggesting that the transport mechanism in thePro-Ject is great because it is used in Gryphon. Perhaps, and very likely, Gryphon is grossly overpriced audio jewellery. The exceptional transport mechanisms are no longer in production - the last of the truly good ones was the Philips Pro2LF which I think stopped being manufactured 10 years ago. CEC still makes a belt drive transport as does Audio Note UK (who also stockpiled the Philips Pro2LF). Gryphon, like many simply buys off-the-shelf components and houses them in fancy casework and makes it look cool and charge a lot of money. Remember the ole Theta Data Universal - All they did was put a $299 Philips LD player inside their casework and added a $25 SPDIF output. They charged $5,000 - Stereophile's Robert Harley (now TAS) raved. People need to look at the quality of the parts inside and not just look at the logo or the heavy casework. I am reminded of those 1980s 4 cyl Mustangs - it may look like a Mustang - but you're not getting a Mustang.
Hi Austen, thank you for your comment and contribution to the topic. I had hoped that my argument was not ‘because the drive mechanism can be found in an expensive chassis, that it must be good’, rather ‘it seems to be of good quality And it has been chosen for use in super expensive devices’. I had a watch by the Swiss company Raymond Weil, it cost a lot of money but when it broke down just a few months after purchase my local watch maker showed me the movement inside (a cheap plastic quartz movement he could buy for less than 5USD)! So I am aligned with you on this. However, I truly do think the CD drive selected by Project does seem to be well made, and to my ears, does it’s job well enough.
Very well done and interesting as usual. Very enjoyable to watch.
Thanks Don!
This video is helping me decide which cd player to buy . What is your opinion of TUBE cd players?
Hi, to be honest, I have no preference, it purely depends on the design. Tubes can sound great but they can also be very disappointing. And you can always hook a cd player up to a tube preamplifier. I had an Ayon tube CD player / preamplifier. It was very impressive but also very, very expensive! I am sorry I cannot be of much more help.
Thanks for interesting video. I collect cds so im interested.
You’re welcome