Once again, CD playback SOUNDS BETTER than streaming w/ MARANTZ CD60 (& Rotel CD11 Tribute)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- 👉🏻 This episode is brought to you by AudioQuest:
www.audioquest.com/mythicalcr...
🎥 Camera: Olaf von Voss
🎬 Editor: John Darko
🕺🏻 Motion GFX: John Darko
💰 Ad segment: Jana Dagdagan
🛋 My listening room in 2022:
darko.audio/darkos-listening-...
🎵 Song IDs? Playlists of all music heard in this video - and other videos - can be found on PATREON: / johndarko
0:00 Intro
0:20 vs. Marantz Model 40n: headphones
3:37 vs. Marantz Model 40n: DACs
4:47 vs. Rotel CD11 Tribute
6:17 Other considerations
8:41 vs. Marantz CD-63SE
11:05 vs. Bluesound Node (2021)
👉🏻 As seen in this video...
Marantz CD60
🛒 howl.me/chXS7Sp05Pf
Marantz Model 40n
🛒 howl.me/chXS7SVc5Fo
Rotel CD11 Tribute
🛒 howl.me/chXS7SQVV5W
Bluesound Node
🛒 (US) howl.me/chXS7S1Llqi
🛒 (UK) amzn.to/3CHKR0t
Final D8000 Pro
darko.audio/2019/07/final-int...
Dan Clark Ether 2
🛒 www.thomann.de/gb/dan_clark_a...
This video is a pseudo-follow-up to NOT DEAD YET: CD playback w/ Hegel, PS Audio and Pro-Ject
• NOT DEAD YET: CD playb...
👉🏻 CDs seen in this video...
Bill Callahan - Dream River ⬅ * AUDIOPHILE ALBUM PICK*
🛒 (US) amzn.to/3RbhsQ2
🛒 (UK) amzn.to/3Kr1TBC
Fila Brazillia - Maim That Tune
🛒 (US) amzn.to/3QWaajD
🛒 (UK) amzn.to/3wCqf5E
Grace Jones - Private Life: The Compass Point Sessions
🛒 (US) amzn.to/3Tn2g4f
🛒 (UK) amzn.to/3e102ay
The House of Love - Burn Down The World (box set)
🛒 (US) amzn.to/3TndyW5
🛒 (UK) amzn.to/3QXNE9N
Chris Clark - Ceramics Is The Bomb
🛒 (US) amzn.to/3pQVJ4w
🛒 (UK) amzn.to/3dZy0fB
Monolake - Interstate
🛒 (US) amzn.to/3Kq8Cf4
🛒 (UK) amzn.to/3e1U7SO
#cds #spotify #applemusic
__________________________________________________________________
⏰ HOW OUR TH-cam VIDEOS GET MADE:
darko.audio/2021/10/how-our-y...
Darko.Audio FAQ:
darko.audio/faq/
Why are/were comments turned OFF?
darko.audio/2020/10/why-im-sw...
What the bloody hell am I talking about?
• What the bloody hell a...
How is Darko.Audio funded?
darko.audio/funding/
Darko.Audio may earn a small commission from items purchased via affiliate links.
__________________________________________________________________
DID YOU KNOW WE HAVE A PODCAST?
podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
open.spotify.com/show/1mnKixp...
/ johnhdarko
__________________________________________________________________
Darko.Audio is a web magazine covering new and exciting developments in the audio world and we aren’t afraid of indie rock or techno.
Web: Darko.Audio
Instagram: / darkoaudio
Facebook: / darkodotaudio - บันเทิง
Love nothing more than selecting a few CD's to play on a €300 Yamaha CD6000 5 disc player, I bought from Richer Sounds. I have it digitally connected via Audioquest Cinnamon digital cable to a Denafrips Aries 2 DAC, then played through a Rega Elicit R, to PMC Twenty5.24's. Absolutely great sound. Nice tip of the hat to Hans Beekhuyzen at the end John.
Same way I feel on my 10k Wadia cd plyer and my top loading vacuum tube cd player!
I've been living with a Marantz CD6006 for the past three years and we're still very happy together. I love to listen to CDs and hold the booklet in my hands while I'm at it. I go CD hunting twice a month and my collection has been steadily growing for very little money and I never felt in the mood to try streaming.
I buy CD's and Vinyl, regularly still, I rarely stream to be honest as I like to own my music, not borrow it from a streaming service who can remove it anytime they choose!
I ripped all my CDs to flac many year’s ago. Last month I though to myself…. “I really liked my collection of CDs” so I bought an old Sony CD player, went to the attic to get my old collection. It was like meeting my old friends. I remembered every texture, the scratches and stains from long forgotten parties and the beautiful cover arts. The special printings where you can feel the curvature with your fingertips. I’m probably not going to buy new ones but I will never throw them away
agree on that point. That and I still have to re-rip all of mine, as I was an early adopter and ripped them all back when we thought 128kb/s mp3 was sufficient. Oh dear...
I did the same thing a few yea back but suffered a fire and lost them.I was able to the same the drive I stored them on. So, I bought a good external burner, and have being burning them on to Cd's again. Actually I'm having a lot of fun doing it, It reminds when in the late 90's if you had a dual CD burners on your computer you were styling back then. Got the old sharpie out, and having a blast doing it!
I'm with you on the sound of CD's. When I listen to a CD quality track streaming from Qobuz through Audirvana then into my external DAC, then swap to CD transport into the same DAC at the same volume level, the CD still has the edge for me, it has a more solid sound with much greater bass control and weight but without losing any resolution. I try this every couple of months just for fun and for me the CD still has the edge.
I own the Technics SL-G700 which does both streaming and CD/SACD playback. So, it is using the same DAC, but the CD playback is better sounding. The difference may not be night & day, but it also isn't subtle.
And here is the thing about the millions of titles... yes, it is nice to have options but realistically you will only listen to a tiny fraction. Let us say you are 20 years old and you will average listening to 10 new albums a week, every week, until you are 80 years old. Doing the math (60 * 52 * 10) you would only get to 31,200 albums in your lifetime, and when you consider for a lot of your life you will be so busy that getting to 10 a week will be a stretch, many of those albums you will only listen to once. So, realistically, having a CD/LP collection of 700-1500 items will be plenty for 95% of the music loving population.
"I own the Technics SL-G700 which does both streaming and CD/SACD playback. So, it is using the same DAC, but the CD playback is better sounding. The difference may not be night & day, but it also isn't subtle."
👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻
Thank you for sharing this. It's another valuable data point in this discussion.
I love it when you get an old bit of gear out and compare it to modern HiFi.
Nice hat tip at the end to Hans Beekhuyzen.
Nice review. Saying that the CD60 doesn't feel as substantial as the 40n integrated Amp when you rap your knuckles on it etc. is fair enough. But comparing their weight as a means of deducing build quality is pointless. As far as I know, the CD player doesn't have a heavy toroidal transformer because it has a different function than the amplifier. So it is not a fair or helpful comparison.
Companies have been known to add weights to products to take advantage of perceived value.
Toroidal transformers are smaller, lighter and more efficient than other conventional transformers. The main reason you use Toroidal Transformers is because of the low noise and low electromagnetic interference. This is thanks mainly in part to its shape and symmetry. The amount of magnetic flux that escapes outside the core is low and contained within the donut shape. The result is lower audio distortion and degradation to the sound quality, therefore ensuring that the resulting sound is clean and accurate. His take on this, IMHO, is spot on.
@@yotnit1170 I think you may have missed the point somewhat. There will almost certainly be toroidal transformers in both of the machines, it’s simply that the one in the amp will be very much larger than the one in the CD player. Add to that the array of smoothing caps and the heat sinks together with the heavier gauge metal required to carry it all and you have valid reasons for the amp being heavier.
My Musical Fidelity CD player is about 8Kg, where as my amp from the same brand is 23Kg. No way is the CD player less well built.
As regards John’s other observations about the missing lights etc, there is a lot more margin to play with in £2 1/2k than there is in £900.
Linn ikemi 4.0 k.g. but sound auiophile.
Good point. Not sure why your comment has elicited the responses it has. You are correct, it is comparing apples to oranges.
That being said however, if he were to compare the build quality to the other two, which he could have, then he could have made his point. Just my opinion as always.
Do vinyl, CD's and stream. We live in a convenience oriented world. Your streaming setups leave a lot to be desired. Love it all! In five years we'll have the option of a neural implant that will make it all obsolete 😁
Get the music ear worms already without that step change…..
Going back to listening to a lot of CD's after years of pretty much only listening to MP3's and streaming, well it's been something of a revelation. Relaxed is the perfect word for it. It's like another extra dose of clarity that just makes it that much nicer to listen to.
CDs are so underrated these days. People actually think they are outdated tech, when they do indeed sound the best.
Absolutely
They do one thing and they do it well, which is play CDs. One of the most mature technologies we have.
I love your presentation style and down to earth attitude, probably one of the best audio channels bar none. Thank you always.
I am at a loss to figure out why the physical weight of two dissimilar pieces of equipment should be a factor at all, or basis for other comparisons. After all, an audio amplifier of the general type used on hi-fi stereo (or more) systems will necessarily have a heavy power transformer, heatsinks, etc; while a CD player has nothing intrinsic that weights much at all and it does not require such a heavy frame or chassis.
I’m glad you were able to discern and audible difference between the CD players. I’ve read that a cd transport just reads the digital information and that it’s all down to the DAC and amplifier to how things sound, which makes sense, but I remember when I purchased a £1,000 HD Blue-ray player and thought to myself that I could now get rid of my Lynn Classik CD player, and just use the Blue-ray player, when I wanted to listen to CD’s, but the sound from the Lynn is far superior, even when I use direct mode on both players, into my amplifier, so the DAC in the amp would convert the digital information from the players, rather than their inbuilt DACS. I could hear a big difference in sound, so I guess the circuitry in different players, does influence the sound.
I agree although it’s Linn not Lynn. 🤪
@@Roamany-Jones I think auto correct decided to change it, without me realising 😄
Funny thing that! Yesterday I compared my Marantz CD11LE to a price comparable Naim ND5XS. And I preferred the sound of the CD player every time. Even using the better DAC of the Naim, the CD player was just more enjoyable. Only when I compared the Marantz and Naim as sources going to my dCS Delius DAC via coax, the Naim really sound better. But that isn’t anywhere near price appropriate of course.. So yesterday I bought a CD from Leftfield and LP’s from the Black Pumas and Olivia Rodriguez, because even though streaming is more convenient and maybe better, I still like to chose the music I play, read the little booklet etc.. Thanks for doing this John! And for including the CD63SE (I liked that as I owned the KI version which I really liked)..
Hi, I’ve a cd11 tribute and the blue sound node you talked about and I came to the same conclusion as you. Both are played through a a11 tribute amp and Dali Oberon 1 speakers. The CD player just sounds better and is my preferred way to listen to my music but sometimes it’s just convenient to use the streamer.
👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻
Thank you for sharing this. Another valuable data point in this discussion.
I've just bought a Marantz SA-12SE. As you probably know, it's basically a Ruby SACD Ki as a production model.
I've had a CD63 Ki, a CD17 Ki, a Pearl SACD Ki - and now this SA-12. I just love it, it easily surpasses all the previous players I've had. The sound quality is really something. Although it's subtly warmer than the Pearl, slightly less attack - but it's more transparent and more musical.
The drawer slowly slides in and out in a positively regal manner!
I am a great fan of Ken Ishiwata. He also secretly designed the Sonus Faber Musica amp, which I have, while working for Marantz and it sounds absolutely warm and lovely. I am glad to found your channel, very nice videos. Greetings from germany!
That Rotel piece of kit looks just like my Marantz separates system, the special Ishawta version of the Marantz line that I bought back in 2006. Brushed aluminium, simple lines, and blue illumination behind the buttons. Lovely! And the sound! 👌👍😊
I bought the Marantz CD60 about a week ago, the built in DAC is almost on the same level as the Schiit Modi DAC, I feel the sound is cleaner from the CD60 but maybe a little more detailed from the Schiit, almost splitting hairs here.
The packaging of the Marantz CD60 is 10 times better than the Rotel CD14 mk2 and RCD-1572 mk2, I had to return a Rotel CD-14 mk2 due to a loud humming noise and an RCD-1572 mk2 due to weird car brake sound from the CD mechanism when putting CDs in.
I feel the CD60 makes a little more noise from the cd mechanism than the Rotel ones.
Overall, I feel that the Marantz CD60 is better built than the Rotel CD players
I have the Rotel CD14 MKII and I ALMOST bought the CD 60 but I decided to save the $100 because the CD 60 had very little in the way of reviews. May I ask which CD player you felt had the best overall sound quality and DAC? I know it’s a lot to ask but I am still within my return window and I would really appreciate a comparison between the two from someone who is passionate about it! THANK YOU!!
@@johncollins1365 I would say the sound quality is almost the same, though having both COAX and optical out on the back, the usb function and headphone jack infront does make it a better deal to go with the Marantz if you want my honest opinion
@@ragkong thank you so much for taking the time to reply! I sincerely appreciate it. That is useful information indeed. Once again, thank you
Ofcourse it does Darko...doh. Streaming uses algorithmic processes to churn the music to your ears, where as CDs give you the bit for bit music as it was mastered by a studio engineer. No compression no added digital artifacts. Just plain music as intended by the artist. Buy a CD and use streaming as an audition platform before you buy... support vinyl and CD and physical media. Dont become slaves to the subscription services who want to rent out your favourite music to you...
Great topic because I happen to own a late 80's vintage Marantz CD-60. Has TDA-1541 ladder Dacs and the magical everlasting Philps CD swing arm mechanism. Very much appreciate the comments that it's all about what you prefer as being the most important thing. Thanks for doing what you do John !!!
I too have long thought that CDs sound better than streaming music until I discovered that the network switch was the cause. After replacing with a business Cisco switch and a 12 Volt low noise with EMI RFI Filter power supply, this has been completely upgraded.
What Cisco business switch has 12v power supply? How did you replace the ps?
Wow interesting. So the cause for Johns finding considering the bluesound Node's lesser quality might well be in the network...
Nope. The Node sounds the same (to me) when used with an Ethernet cable and over wifi.
I don’t want to brag but it would be interesting to see the explanation from protocol point of view. TCP is reliable and deterministic so I would be surprised to see packets lost or coming in of out of order to the Dac. I can understand more or less data available from CD depending on the quality of the drive subsystem, which influence the sound quality. But never seen valid explanation for network devices.
Unless we are taking into account analog domain and dirty stuff not filtered out. But then again - it is not a network/protocol thing.
@@Marszczak I use the Cisco SG250-08 switch with a AUDIOPHONICS LPSU25 Linear Regulated Power Supply EMI RFI Filter 12V 1.25A 25VA. This as a replacement of a Sitecom switch with a standard powersupply.
Hans Beekhuyzen would be pleased with your closing line. Indeed, we all enjoy our music. Thanks for the great video as always. I love and will never part with my CD's ever.
Another great episode. Fantastic content. Can't go wrong with Marantz or Rotel...
God, I wish I possessed ears like yours and you explain all those different delicacies so well. Although I do have a recognised hearing issue since an army explosive accident in my 20's (40 years ago) I can still hear differences or recognise a sound I prefer. What I should really get to is we are all different in what we want & need, I personally want a crisper sound for my hearing issues which will change over time. But I still can get a sound to suit but that aside I also enjoy music for music & not too nitpicking over the slighter things. Your enthusiasm shines through thats why I watch.
I have a Marantz CD6006 and listened to it through analog output for some time. It had a pleasing warm sound but i felt something was missing. I was tempted to buy more a expensive Marantz CDP but they all lack CD-Text. So i hooked it up to my Musical Fidelity V90-DAC (coax). And this combination works great for me. Better separation and detail.
Am using the Bluesound Node in combination with Feliks Echo mk2 headphone amp and thought I wouldn't need the Earman TrAmp Dac that I used connecting my iPad. I was wrong, without the Earman Dac the sound of the Node was thinner than I was used to. After a few weeks I decided to use the Node just for streaming and the Dac function of the Earman. Everything fell into place now and I couldn't be happier. Headphone is Denon A-HD9200. Keep up the good work, love your channel John.
Love the sound of 16bit audio quality
About 25yrs ago I bought the Marantz CD63 ki sig & thought it was wonderful but after a few years lust got the better of me & I replaced it with the Marantz CD17 ki sig which I too thought was wonderful and still do and still have it. I only use it about once a week but it sounds lush when I do so. Cheers.... 👍
Way back in the 90’s , the high end store I worked, developed a CD player using a high end Philips transport ( can’t remember the model # ) and we also sold Krell Digital. The Boss, Eric Hudgens, said that the player would go into such a high amount of error correction “ jitter “ that it would sound “ warmer “ to our customers . I have all of it running through my Krell system and love the music. Never had to reboot my VPI TT. Love your channel
Great review! Thnx.
Percentage wise how much is the difference between cd’s and streaming, using a topping e50 and between wifi streaming or hard wired cable? 🙏
Enjoying the music, thanks!
I opened up a remote control from a Cambridge Audio Azur 650r once to clean up some contacts. It has a premium feel to it, metal surface at the top and feels weighty and substantial. Inside the case was the circuit board and the silicone button panel as you'd expect, but also a piece of metal weight that does nothing except to give the unit it's weight. 😃 So really, one could modify any remote control and add some stick-on wheel weights if you enjoy that tactile feeling.
Was thinking about this just this morning as I played a cd on my system and it sounded fantastic! The present 'giveaway' prices of CDs also makes them really attractive!
John, thank you for another great review and making an argument for me to haul my CDs around (job makes me move every few years). Quick question (not necessarily a quick answer I will imagine), after reviewing the Marantz 40n and CD60, would you go for the innous mk3 instead? I know it’s not apples to apples, but would love to hear your thoughts
Great information as always.
If an external DAC is used in place of the internal DAC on the Node and the same external DAC was used with the CD players would the same comparisons still hold between CDs and streaming?
Good video. Love my CD's, and my Rotel, and my NAD dual disc CD player.
Thank for the simple, enjoyable review
Just unboxed my new CD60 and listening to the Carpenters, so very pleased with the sound. Using an old Arcam A65+ and entry level Infinity speakers on the desktop to get the day started (BW706S2 arriving later today). I have demo'd this CD using my 3700H and Sony 4K player, as well as other equipment, I just thought it must be a bad CD. Now I am feeling emotion and drawn into the music, Karen's voice has beautiful vibrato and a little guitar solo popped up in there I never even noticed and it sounded great, music can really have a powerful effect emotionally when it sounds right. Anyway, just throwing in my 2 cents, I have not streamed this album to compare, but just here to tell you the CD60 sounds amazing, and might be worth it to old peeps like me that have a lot of CD's laying around.
How is its bass from cd 60? Heavy and strong or just satisfactory? More heavy bass than cd 6007? Its treble is soft, normal, or sharp like in the marantz cd 6007? Made in Japan? I like a cd player with a relatively soft treble, sweet mids and deep/strong bass!
This just tickled me and I don't even know why! Thanks for the interesting video!
John I sold my mint condition CD63 Ki Signature a little while back(had it from new) and I am now suffering sellers remorse.Even tried to get it back but no luck.I really enjoy warm lush sound and the KI had that in spades.What I get from this review is that the closest sounding streamer to the 63 is your Node,which cannot be too different to my 63KI(though I have never heard the vanilla 63).Was looking at buying the Node,that way I can stream and also attach a NAD cd player I have to the Node to enjoy the warm sound of the Node's DAC.Thank you for your reviews John,really.
As a result of this video I decided to do my first ever direct comparison between a track on a CD and the same track through Spotify (Elzabetta Brusa's Fireworks, on Naxos). The digital signal is put through the same external Rega DAC. The difference was clear, but not as large as I had expected. Streaming produced a slightly brighter and more open sound, and seemed a bit vague and splashy compared with the CD, which was more explicit and solid in delivery. But the noticeable thing was that the CD sounded rather wooden and constrained, and almost mechanical to the ear. I wonder whether streaming's softening of the sound made it seem less effortful and more fluid and free, perhaps like LPs do, when compared with the precision and objectivity of CD. Of course, on a different track there could be different results, and I suspect the sound of some Spotify files is well below what they could be. It may be worth doing a comparison of the same album on CD, LP, and streaming, to see what the differences are between the three. Thanks for the video.
Ich habe einen 1995er Luxman DZ-03 Tube-CD-Player und an dessen warmen, sauberen Klang kommen die heutigen CD-Player überhaupt nicht dran! Er läuft an einem neuen 2022er HighEnd Stereo-Tube-Receiver Magnat MR 780 mit 1995er Quadral AC 4100 4-Wege-Standboxen!
Great video brother. Its funny because i was just looking at the amp and cd60 combo last night and then here you go with a video of the 2 😂
I also agree and think CDs and certain CD players have the edge over streaming in comparable conditions. But as you pointed out in your other video, CDs still have many advantages over streaming and often vinyl (which I also love and collect). I have an old Rotel RCD-865BX that I actually found for $6 at the thrift store that has a beautiful sound, and when connected to the RME ADI-2-DAC (FS) via coaxial it also sounds wonders. Long (er) live CD! 💿
All interesting points in the Streaming vs Redbook CD comparison. I am just now setting up a new system with both CD and Streaming available. I'm using the Audiolab CDT-9000 which is a transport only that will be feeding the DAC's in a NAD C658, and all streaming will be handled by the NAD C658. I do have quite a few CD's going back all the way to when CD first hit the market back in 80's including some "audiophile" CD's that are master recordings etc... So I'll be doing some comparisons vs streaming.
I guess my main question on what you found comparing both formats is . . . did you compare "Hi Rez" streams to the CD? Or was it mostly 16/44.1 streams vs the Cd's? If I were going to guess, I'd think the 24/192 - 24/96 streams would be superior, but I guess I'll do the same comparisons soon to see for myself.
Cheers.
Love the review. I have a ton of CDs but since I got a Bluesound vault and pulled them all onto that, plus networked to my NAD M33, I can’t imagine going back to buying CDs. I can’t tell you precisely WHY, but it seems the two viable approaches for me are network/stream and vinyl for physical media.
I had a CD63 SE and loved it, wish I still had it. But I now have the CD60 and the Model 40N, I agree with all your analyses, I think the CD60 is elegant sounding but can still rock, it covers all bases enough for me. The biggest difference I hear between the 40N DAC and the CD60 is in bass detail, I'm amazed at bass drum textures and hearing bass players bending strings, so many things that I never heard before! I tried streaming Tidal with the 40N but hated the drop in quality compared with CD's played through the DAC coaxially. The accuracy of your review makes me confident to trust any others I see of yours 🙂
Very nice video for the people that are seeking for a CD player. In that way, have you tested the Marantz CD6007?
Hi John, I truly love your channel and content. This particular episode was very nice and noticed at the end that you end it like the TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel any particular reason for that?
Cheers from Bristol in the UK.
Hi I would like a cd player again (did not get rid of a single one of them) I was toying with the idea of the cd60 but was also recommended a an audiolab 6000cdt accompanied by something like an ifi zen dac2 both combinations are around the £550-600 budget that I have. Any recommendations for me?
If you still have the Dynaudio Focus 30, how do those 3 CD players stated sound through those? They can either be connected using coaxial (employing solely the DAC within the speakers) and using the analogue line-in (having the DAC within the players do the conversion first).
The Marantz Model 30n SACD network player is truly a companion player/streamer for the Model30 amp and it is superb as well as identically priced.
Interesting observations John. I am using Roon with my Mac as core. When comparing a CD lossless rip played back using a very good DAC - Denafrips Terminator Plus - it sounds to me better than the same track via Tidal. Is that also your experience?
Keep up the great work!
I have a streamer with integral cd transport. So, both the streamed music and that from a cd are converted to analogue via the same DAC. Seriously, in extensive ‘blind A/B’ testing, I could not differentiate between them. Would this not indicate that it is the DAC making the audible, not the digital source?
Correct.
Yep...clearly none of this was blind tested, and for one simple reason...the problem is that blind testing just isn't fun lol. No doubt that it's a great way to really figure out if you can hear differences, I've done it myself and have found that it has eliminated what I was completely convinced were real differences, but don't really expect it from reviewers because it's not an enjoyable exercise. Hey, I wouldn't want to do it haha.
In this case, my guess is it's primarily perceived differences because he simply prefers CDs to streaming on all fronts. He clearly very much enjoys the physical media aspect, and gapless playback is very important to him too.
I like both CD 💿 z and streaming. Both have their dark and bright sides.
I have a SA15 S2 CD player and I use its dac which is great with a NA 7004.Marantz is the thing for me in stéréo Hifi and They match a PM 11s1 that has a smooth tube like player but fed with very good cables and plug etc for electricity (Wibex,Oyaide ).It simply bring them to a higher level
Another great video, John. Here’s the question I was hoping you’d address: what sort of differences would you anticipate possibly hearing between all three of these CD players if you compared them as transports only (digital out to a common DAC)? Thanks!
I had a lot of CD players, modified many .........build some .........but today I often go back to my thirty year old Luxman CD107 DU..........witch I modified somewhat with succes and this one comes closed to analog experience with the right PRAT............by the way it still plays with the original tubes...............
DARko, love the channel. What are the brown floorstanders in this video? They look beautiful. Thanks!
Can't decide which CD player to buy , i have a collection of SMSL dac's , so would only be using a player such as this as a transport ! , 6007 or CD 60 ? , Rotel or Denon 900 ? , as a transport ! ?
I have a Marantz CD63 mk2 KI and 3 years ago I went to a high end audio shop with a view to upgrading it. The sales person told me that the transport on the CD63 was one of the best ever made and that I should stop wasting my time trying to improve it and instead use a decent DAC with it. I bought a Musical Fidelity DAC and have been very happy with the cd set-up. Was he right, could I have improved on the sound with a new player, I never investigated it further as I went towards vinyl instead. Was the Marantz CD63 in your test put through an external DAC?
I've recently bought a Rotel Ra1592mk2 and RCD 1572mk2. I find that using balanced XLR cables (and obviously the cd's dac) sounds a lot better than a coaxial cable and the amp's dac. Admittedly the XLR cables are a lot more expensive than the coaxial but the difference is quite pronounced.
Assuming they both use the same updated T.I. dacs, do you think balanced input/ouputs sound inherently better than using the cd player as a transport?
I still use a NAD cd player and hooked it up with audioquest cinnamon toslink to my Metrum Acoustic dac… wow just wow!! Better the rca to the amplifier… CD sounds amazing!! And it always works!
Well that was very interesting. I had the base model of the CD-63 (not the SE version you have here John) for over two decades. It's still going strong - I gave it to a friend last year. I'm hoping to give the KI Signature version a listen at some point, which was by all accounts particularly good fun. I'd rather download FLAC these days than buy a CD (for environmental and storage reasons), but occasionally I want something that's just not available to download. And then I do get it on CD.
Darko! It took years for me to create what i thought was a digital system that was superior to my CD player.I thought i had made my peace with CD’s and was fully on the digital train - I have Apple Music and use Audirvana on my MacBook Pro and hadn’t listened to a CD in a few years - and then I watched this latest video or yours. I thought, ‘my old CD’s in have boxed up in the storage room can’t sound as good as my Digital system with Audioquest USB cable and Ifi idefender and ipurifier!’ So dragged a couple CD’S out of storage and compared them to the iTunes stream and Audirvana digital tracks and wouldn’t you know it…. They definitely sounded more transparent and natural. Maybe i convinced myself the digital sounded better because i didn’t want the hassle of CD’s.
What's the hassle?
Press open, insert cd press play.
Difficult procedure.
@@davidchingching167 I know, right? The “digital advocates” had me convinced that my life would be so much easier if I ripped my whole collection onto a hard drive, got the appropriate cabling, bought a digital streamer or computer, found the best player to use (if using a computer), download the app (if using a streamer) and then (on and on). I’ve come to really appreciate the simplicity of my CD player. It gets me listening to music more and farting around less.
So glad you mentioned the CD63 this is still my CD player today, purchased in 1996 I think. I've been thinking about upgrading and I was curious to how old cd players compare to their modern day equivalent.
Keep the 63 iv tried the 6007 it's nowhere as good the old marantz cd players are better
I'm pretty sure it's not fair to say streaming is weaker sounding than CDs when using two different DACs.
A better way would be to do a level matched blind test with the two sources and one DAC. 😉
As always, thank you for the video.
I've been listening to my Denon CDC-A110 for 2 months, it's the best I've ever heard. With analog outs to a Schiit Jotunheim 2 and Audeze LCD-X, it always brings tears to my eyes. Then, I stop thinking about the price, and just enjoy the music.
😂
I am using a Sony DVP-7000S DVD/CD player as a transport and using Denafrips Pontus 2 DAC. Great combo.
I’ve just invested in a Primare DD15 to play through my RME ADI 2….. It sounds superb.
I agree, I have several videos on streaming dacs but my preference is CD format
.
There are as many streaming tracks that sound better than CD so it's important to compare the exact same tracks. Like comparing vinyl pressings, it all depends on who did the mastering and production and how it was converted. It is difficult to find the true information on where the original stream was derived from. So it's not simply CD sounds better than streaming as bits should be bits.
Definitely. Then in order the be compared properly they'd have to be played through the same dac as well...
Love my CDs especially classical. Listened to the blue sound thing at a dealers last week v a Marantz 6007 CD and it underwhelmed me. Nowhere near as good as my little iFi Zen DAC signature mk 2.
The winner was a Linn LP12 playing three 50 year old classical albums. Beautiful imaging and so exciting. Showing my age I guess. Shame the budget Linn cost more than my Skoda is worth……
I may dig out my 40 year old Yamaha cassette deck next…Dolby C and all that. Then I can play all the cassettes I made with my mates at Uni in the late 70s……..
Great review. I bought the Marantz CD6007 a couple of years ago and agree that CD sounds better than streaming and the DAC is much better (to stream I have an intel NUC running Roon, Qobuz and all my CDs in FLAC into a Topping E30 DAC which i will be upgrading soon, thanks for your help with that NUC inspiration by the way). One question is I use my CD6007 to run my Beyerdynamic DT1990 headphones and it sounds fantastic, does the CD60 not have adjustable headphone gain in the options like the CD6007? I only get to about 11 O'clock position before it too loud on high gain. Keep up the good work.
This is a great question that I should've expanded more on in the video. Yes, the CD60 has gain settings but no matter what I tried, I couldn't get the sound quality of the CD60 to match that of the 40n. Higher gain mode made the headphones I used sound a bit too brittle/hard. They sounded best in low gain mode with close to a full turn of the volume wheel.
Also: as far as I can tell, the headphone gain setup menu is only accessible via the remote control.
At the end it should all be down to the DAC quality on the cd and the streaming players, assuming the content has the exact same information (0s and 1s).
Nice video comparison.. I have the Marantz CD 63SE for many years and keep coming back to it! It is and incredibly musical CD player. I need a new CD player with newer DACS and I’m debating between the Rotel CD11 Tribute or the much expensive CD 6000 Diamond, of course with a incredible ESS Dac, digital input, and Roon tested! BTW my current top CD player which I own is the Marantz SA11-S1, a few years old but still playing notes! Be safe, Cheers..
I to have found i prefer the sound of cd's versus streaming, generally (through the latest Blusound Node) but as with vinyl there is a huge difference in the quality of the recording so your milage may vary.
Thank you for your content, i always enjoy.
Great presentation John👍I love the inclusion of the CD63🙂 I have a full size CD, Amp and bookshelf speakers in a bookcase with 800 CD'S (Exposure/Neat UK)❤
A good comparison to CD60 would be Denafrips Ares DAC/Audiolab 6000CDT.
What I'd like to see is an overview of universal disc spinners. I have a decent collection of both movies and music on silver discs. I currently use a single machine (Arcam FMJ) as the hub of my system, but it's up for replacement and there seems to be precious few options out there.
Nice comparison 😊
I am now really curious how this Marantz setup (40 and 60) compares to their own 8600 setup. A cheaper but fully analogue amp, and a more expensive cd-network player.
Similar functionality, similar proce different boxes. I've heard the nd8600 does all three of it's functions (streaming, dacing and cding) surprisingly well considering the cost. But if the cd60 dac is noticeably better then the un in the 40n, I'm curious where the nd8600 sits.
The audio quality from the Marantz CD5001 is another excellent player to consider, its a few years old but the sound is warm, crisp and powerful.
Awesome comparison, cheers! You've said in the past that the DAC and transport help each other out - is that the reason why the players beat the streamer? If so, does it make sense to buy a transport and DAC separately?
Cds sound great. I have vinyl too..kept pristine since 14. Inevitably used vinyl..even the clean ones.some sound slightly worn . Used cds..clean..always sound clean. I have a nad cd player..15yrs old. Sounds very good. Shop thru in a couple of Tara labs cables.
Once again I agree.
I enjoy more to listen to my CD player than the files and I mean directly played in the receiver or using an streamer.
Just today perhaps aI buy a second hand Musical Fidelity X-T100 amp that works with a power separate unit (Triple-X) and also include the X-Ray V8 CD player (that is alsofeed by the Triple-X)
The amp only has analogue inputs, and I thought it could be a problem... but I think that perhaps is a good thing. The X-Ray V8 CD player doesn't need it and I can use an external DAC for other digital sources.
i wonder if the laid back sound of the "vintage" marantz is caused by the old readout and dac technology or from aged electronic components like electrolytic capacitors...
I enjoy buying CD's and also enjoy ripping them to .flac for easier transport, but as I'm learning more about "how" to enjoy these two digital formats it seems people lean towards the CD. Why is that? If both sets of data are identical bit for bit why would a laser read 1's and 0's sound better then 1's and 0's streamed into the same DAC have different sound signatures?
I am also interested in a FLAC comparison. Is there also a bigger difference in music sound by using higher end DACs? Thank you
It won't sound different, because bits 1 and 0s, not magic.
@@fredrikfyksen you need to listen to John’s latest podcast…
@@fredrikfyksen Cool. If you’re in the Netherlands one day, drop by, you can experience the same Sind sounding not the same at all. Don’t know why, doesn’t make any sense (I am a computer scientist and teacher), but it somehow does.
@@erwindewit4073 thanks for the answer, and the invitation.
It's hard to argue about someone hearing the difference, because it is subjective. And if you hear the difference, that's great, continue to have fun with it.
But if a digital signal behaved different in different medium, computers would not work. Bits are 1 and 0, binary. Not anything else. I have a hard time understanding how you can reason with anything else.
Nice video Hans, or John or whoever you are!
Good day Darko,
Thank you Darko
Just to let you know that I subscribed to your channel at least Three years ago.
I noticed your musical tastes are very similar to my own, of which is one of the reasons why I watch your video's.
I like listening to your reviews.
I Deeply invested into the CD format many years ago and to this day I know that I made the right decision.
Streaming has it's place yes. However CD or Vinyl are my choice.
Keep up the Great work and know that you are Appreciated.
Kind Regards from Mark
Would the cd60 be out of place with a 3 or 4k amp or is it strickly entry budget?
Hi John, as always great information and well produced. I have been considering a purchase of a CD player in the 600 to 1000 USD range.Other than the price, I cannot seem to identify any real differences between any of them Denon, Rotel, Marantz and so on. It seems to me they all use a DVD type drive (drawer) and I could not find any real information on the internal DAC's.. Seems like you have to jump (double) the price to get better quality mechanicals and enclosures. Your thoughts? (maybe I should just stick with my old Blu ray player)
This summer i have actually spent some time to compare the sound of my cd player with the Canever DAC vs streaming/NAS. The CD player with my DAC have undoubtly won the battle. Have done the same exercise by using a VPI turntable vs digital music (APL DAC) and the VPI won in every aspect.
Hey Darko. Don't you think that CD 11 Tribute drive is quite loud? I wanted to buy one so I went on a test. And in comparision to my 30 years old Sony CDP 770 Rotel is freakin loud. What do you think?
I have a high-end Cambridge blue ray player, cd's sound great in it .
I also have progressive dvd player's from the 90's that I buy all the time at goodwill and flea markets, both Sony's and pioneers.
They sound just as good as the 1500.00 dollar Cambridge.
I buy them for five to twenty dollars.
Could you specify better which models are you referring? Thanks!
That's cool😊
I have just got the rotal 11 and as I have gone thow my C.Ds it will not play all C.D.s. only the ones it wants to play witch is a pain in the . Is yours playing all your C.D.s or is it bad luck, it's new and the second hand totals I have play all C.D.s I have in my collection.
In my teenage Years I got just that same vintage marantz CD Player. A cd63 se, if I recall it right. And I have to say, I agree. I tried to exchange it with newer, "more detailled, but also sterile" sounding players when Denon produced their Lineup in the 2000s, went happily back to the old marantz.
It got replaced only by its own successors, the "newer vintage" models CD17 mk2, and the CD14, which I found 3 years ago for an incredible price. Talking of a few hundreds of dollars, not thousands.
The cd14 is now happily playing in my high end chain, connected to ayon auris, kronzillas, and wilson sasha 2s... It certainly still feels like it belongs there. And it gives its competing Linn Akkurate ds3 Streamer a run for the Money... If i want the maximum of details, i choose the Linn and hi res, but if I want the sound to go really deep and touch me in a natural way, I fumble around with those not so convenient discs. Its just... hollistically, the more natural experience.
And: the cd63se... that 12 pound plastic bomber, is still in our family, playing in my fathers girlfriends house... Talking about sustainability, there you go!