Is E8 Lattice the True Nature of Reality? Or Theory of Everything?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- E8 image credit: Wikipedia | Title: E8 Petrie projection | Author: Jgmoxness | Source: | License: CC BY-SA 3.0 commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
E8 Lie group and E8 Lattice has sometimes been called the most beautiful mathematical structure in the world. Is it the theory of everything or the true nature of reality? It even has an entire research company behind it called "Quantum Gravity Research"
Note: E8 root system animation provided courtesy of David Madore - www.madore.org.
It is a 248 dimensional object, but it can also be thought of as an object that has 8 spatial dimensions, with 248 symmetries.
Why is this structure important? Well, it happens to show up in parts of String Theory. But also in 2007, a theoretical physicist Antony Garrett Lisi published a paper proclaiming that the mathematics of this structure contained all the particles and forces in the universe. He called it the “the exceptionally simple theory of everything” What Lisi did is he found a relationship between this object and all the forces and particles we know about.
According to the standard model, there are 4 fundamental forces in nature, strong force, weak force, electromagnetism and gravity. And there are 12 fundamental particles. In addition, each of these particles has a antiparticle of itself. In total, these make up all the elementary particles, and there are exactly 28 of them. 24 elementary particles, and 4 force carrier particles. Each of these distinct elementary particles has eight quantum numbers assigned to it, based on the charges each particle has.
This brings the number of distinct particles to 224.
Lisi found that he could mathematically equate all of these particles to one of the points in the E8 model.
But the model has 248 points, not 224. So what about the empty 24 extra points? He simply created 24 new theoretical particles.
Notice how the lines radiate from each point: Lisi also found patterns emerging between particles and forces like they happen in actual reality - for example, when photons interact with leptons, they create electrons. The same thing happens in the E8 lattice. The connections shown within points on the E8 match up to real, known connections between particles in our physical world.
One of the particles he assigned to this shape behaves very much like the force carrier for gravity - a graviton. And this is the key to Lisi claiming that this could be the “theory of everything.” - because it combines matter particles and gravity in one framework.
Lisi's theory does have some problems. One of the biggest problems with the theory is that Lisi combines the force carrying particles, Bosons with the matter particles. String theory does this too, but with the rigorous mathematics to go with it. This math is not present in E8, so Lisi combining these appears to be arbitrary.
In addition, a leading mathematician and expert on Lie groups, Skip Garibaldi wrote a paper in 2010 which mathematically disproved Lisi. But Lisi came back with counter arguments to that.
But the elephant in the room is the 24 new theoretical particles that come out of this theory. So it requires the existence of undiscovered matter. However, since the startup of the Large Hardon Collider, it is possible one of lisi’s 24 new theoretical particles could be found. Lisi himself says, "I'm the first to admit that it's a long shot."
In fact, I think that even if one of the new theoretical particles is found, it would be a huge breakthrough towards proving this theory is on the right track.
How does this compare to string theory? At least there is a way to prove it, unlike string theory - where we don’t really have a way to prove it.
And although E8 has a vast number of dimensions, the physical universe described by the theory would have only the four dimensions we are familiar with and not the 10 or 11 of string theory.
You may have heard of a research organization called Quantum Gravity Research. This group has built a whole company around the idea of E8 being the theory of everything. They have some really well produced and slick videos on you tube that you can check out for yourself. They are like mini movies with actors, special effects, and animations. So I commend them for making this science approachable to everyday people.
The problem with their videos is they are mixing actual proven concepts in physics with a lot of unproven concepts, including new age mysticism. This really diminishes their credibility in my view because the viewer doesn’t know which part is true and which part is conjecture.
E8 is a real mathematical structure. It has been around for a long time. Quantum Gravity Research people did not come up with it.
And I think it’s an interesting idea. All that needs to be done, is for the large hadron collider to find at least one of 24 theoretical particles, and this theory may get hoards of scientists singing its praises. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[TH] VCT Masters Shanghai Playoffs DAY 2 // PRX vs G2 | EDG vs TH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T5j2XVcDFs0/mqdefault.jpg)
Coolest sentence ever, “this is a 2D representation of a 3D representation of a 4D projection of an 8D object."
@Solutions Exist Neol DeGrass on Tyson would be seriously flubbergasted...being that this is outside of his script and acting ability :) yeah his name is real important to me, sure you can tell! Haha!
It's excessive, because a 2D representation of a 3D representation of a 4D projection is just a 2D representation of a 4D projection.
Oh my god. I feel uncomfortable surrounded with such dimwits. You can't imagine 8D objects ?? Really ??? It's simple: just imagine n-dimensional space... and take some dimensions out (yeah, this is a real sentence from my math professor. I gave up the university after that - real story)
- Yes it's just a way to "really" dumb down a concept to where it loses a credibility as being a valid aid to comprehension.
- It would be worse than 2d flatlanders understand not just 3 dim. reality, or even a 4th dim. one, but a 5 dim reality.
- a Flatlander): " Now a fifth dim. object is a line that does even more crazy things than we can imagine a 4th dim. line can do or a 3 dim. line which we call a cube and does crazy things that our scientists call volume, time & gravity, all at once."
- Just Forget it.
@@medexamtoolsdotcom Even more than that, a 2D representation of a 3D representation of a 4D projection of an 8D object, is just:
• a 2D projection of an 8D object.
Fred
Interesting concept. Reminds me of how when the periodic table was developed we found new elements due to the "gaps" that were uncovered. By noticing the gaps, we could focus our energies on searching for the obvious missing elements.
👆 take every new experimental science with a grain of salt, lest you be bogged down by the hippies for the rest of your life.
"Took 18 mathematicians 4 years.." you know a granny would've knitted this shit in a hot minute.
🤣🤣
lol
This video was so clear, concise, and logical that I watched all the ads so that Arvin will get paid.
Because God knows a physicist salary is a pittance.
@@robseau oh really?
Watching the ads instead of skipping them makes no difference for how much content creators get paid for them.
Oh! You suck up! ;-)
@@Dooality source?
Explains what I've been seeing in my perfectly legal activities that take place in some occasions of social events.
Heh
Yeah I'm at the same events, different location though.
Facts
@Deaven Does Not Exist DMT bro
@Deaven Does Not Exist I did all three (shrooms too) several times and I have have to say you are right at some point, but I expected a lot from DMT and still I was absolutly amazed what the the fuck just happened. Absolutly nothing similar to our reality and "world"
( . ) You see first a point, but if you watch closely you can see that this is a 1D representation of 2D representation of a 3D representation of a 4D projection of an 8D object.
I see tittie
Funny, that looks like a two-dimensional dot representing a zero-dimensional point to me.
@@TheDavidlloydjones ikr
@Little Red
Physics is working just fine in the practical sense: we have a strong industrial civilization puttering along, and we can probably solve the carbon and climate problems in fifty or a hundred years flat.
The epistemological cul-de-sac is more difficult, and I think this "dimensions" thingie is a large part of the brain-rot that is holding us back.
A dot occupies a place. On a sheet of paper, you can go not in two dimensions but in a conceptually infinite number of directions, an actual number limited only by the grain of the graphite in your pencil.
Space *is* a dimension, like time, mass, and the various charges, attractions, and repulsions.
If your mathematics-du-jour requires eight or ten or eleven degrees of freedom (like directions, degrees of freedom are also called "dimensions" by the lazy people who got us into this mess) there are enough different forces around for you to conjure up the number you need. For today's presentation, that is.
To answer your question, Little Red, the way you make things visible is by opening your eyes. Conceiving of what you see in useful ways is a bit more difficult, and getting the words right helps. Search under Rectification of Names, zheng ming or 正名, " to replace the current name or title of sth with a new one that reflects its true nature, a tenet of Confucian philosophy."
@@TheDavidlloydjones 0k k vVO
Great video! Question about the 24 = 248 - 224 remaining points. Previously, it was stated that 28 known particles correspond to 224 (28x8) points. So wouldn't the remaining 24 points correspond to 3 particles?
Yes
yes i think
And CERN just discovered 3 new 'exotic' particles using LHC🌊👽
quick google on a suspicion says it's not as simple... a photon for example doesn't have an antiparticle, it's a singlet, so multiplying that by 8 twice is a bit dodgy! There's multiple gluons, only some of which have anti-gluons, but apparently should be considered just another gluon really.
"In the case of the gluons, because the color SU(3) symmetry is exact, the entire 8-element sets of gluons is its own "antiparticle set", but consists of three pairs of distinct particles which are antiparticle of each other (for instance R¯B and B¯R), plus two more, each of which is its own antiparticle."
Hi Arvin. Your transparency, your simplicity and your scrutiny elicits my TRUST. Don't lose these gifts and thank you for them. Your work has now a place in my computer and in my own work.
Thanks. I appreciate that!
@@ArvinAsh feedback is important Arvin.
6:38 😂 it says "Large Hardon Collider" *Hadron 😂😂
Mike G Not intentional, but probably a Freudian slip. Lol.
@@ArvinAsh it was probably autocorrect though we have no proof, though these people do have a lot on their minds like huge hard on's colliding with dark stars
I don't get it. I have played that section several times and I'm hearing him say "hadron".
@@RoySherfan its written on the screen
@@InvisibleJesus1919 aaah! XD
I really like the way you handle the scientific arguments. You point out the weaknesses of this theory and that. Especially the part about the Gravity Research Group was my favorite. I watched that movie you mentioned in the video (from which I learned the concept E8) and I didnt know it was including pseudo science. Thanks for introducing topics with every possible perspective! I appreciate your work!
gravity is the hoax of scalar longitudinal energy hidden in plain sight. (the OTHER component of magnetism besides the horizontal - + which is really just OUR label for it as there is no - or + in that field, it's just energy).
Hmm....E8.....seems like the brain has some of those...seems like the Universe also is E8 + DNA + Unlimited Electromagnetic Wavelengths + Flat strings. And to get really flexible instead of adding these together “multiply” them! With 7,500,000,000 human brains..and You end up with “Nothing” But The Unlimited!
Didn't know of this gravity research whatever, but it sounds like bs... The e8 thing, in the other hand, even if it's not a valid theory of everything, just like other theory of everything wannabes, might be useful at making some predictions, or in any casezpoint us where to research to either prove orndisprove the existence of such theoretical particles.
nekoeko500 Hmm....What is a Particle from your point of view?
Robert Rudd I'm no scientist, but I would say a type and amount of energy on a point in quantum field. My turn now: what's pseudoscience from your point of view?
When you look for patterns......will always find them
Yeah, but one thing is looking for patterns, and the other is looking for mathematical predictions on how the universe behaves.
Exactly, you will always find what your looking for.
Plus all the particles that dont exist, like the guy said that wrote the paper, "a long shot"
@@justinwinter4908 Jury is still out. E8 lattice may still be right.
I mean if with his mapping he can make predictions of the undiscovered particles and then once found they match, that means something. Like Mendeleev with the first periodic table.
Matías Risso That's the problem with the E8 lattice! If the model is correct,than it can predict the missing particles... which he cannot! Long shot indeed..
Interesting because people have reported seeing the same thing when they do DMT.
It is called "The Chrysanthemum" aka the tunnel you go in when you "break through"
Great introduction to this concept for lay folk who have a hobby interest in theoretical physics but not the math background needed to have more than a cursory understanding.
I’m so glad you did a video on e8. Been following it for years now. I’m not a scientist so my opinion doesn’t matter but from my limited understanding of physics, this seems to be a strong contender for a theory of everything. Thanks Arvin!
E8 lattice: "my 8-dimensional world will blow your mind"
Hilbert space: "hold my infinite mindfuck"
It's not problem with it being 8 dimensional, it's a structure (group) inside it thats mindfuck.
@@kobilica999 anything beyond 4-D is a problem for us mortals
I'm not sure what's the practical difference between infinity and singularity, other than both signifying a similar type of incomprehensible boundary condition.
@@milanstevic8424 'Conformal cyclic cosmology', have a gander.
@@TheYahmez I know about CCC. Thanks!
I also learned in the meantime that the only practical difference is in the assumption that all infinities are bound to mathematics, while we're not so sure in physics (there is no evidence), hence singularities. But the two terms denote two similar concepts when it comes to depicting spatial deformation.
And then we can speculate about it, hence the idea of having a universe inside a singularity. We don't know if any given universe is infinite.
Hey dude I love the way you put up your work segregated without deviation from the main stream..
Your contribution to science is significant.. I appreciate..keep it up..
Make a geometric shape complicated enough and any equation can be expressed in it
mandala for big boys
Every known particle has known exact properties which can be expressed in relation (proportion) to the others. To make a symmetrical pattern in which 224 points' proportional relations matches the proportions and relations of all 224 known particles, would be difficult indeed. Presumably the symmetry of the pattern covers the up/down positive negative aspect of the known particles, so in actual fact the matching only has 12 unique factors to go on, however you also have to match up with the proportional accumulations of particle combinations, for example photon + lepton = electron; and the total has to match as well. This pattern has 24 too many but that's not a stretch to accommodate.
@timwins31 idk much about this level of math ive onl gone through calc 3 but i do know that this theory end at E8 because of group theory. E8 is for octonians which is like complex numbers but with less properties in common than the real numbers.
I do not understand I will be honest but ive heard that going past E8 means you lose enough symmetries/properties that something diverges to infinity, thus making 8-dimensional numbers the highest order discrete lie group
Bravo!! Finally truth. And I'm saying Sophius Lie I think he said his name was..🤔 Sophia's Lie possibly
There are no perfect 9 dimensional shapes
Excellent videos Arvin. I am a fan. You are my favorite on this topic, and I can see that your number of subscribers is growing fast.
Well said. Thanks for coming up with quantum gravity research. Always wondered about their „business model“
The best part is that this simple and beautiful model is too good to be true, so it's ideal to be used in pseudo-science spiritual crap.
yeah nutters
the sun goes round the earth
and that bs about radio waves and x-rays
bunk
the sky isn't the limit
your belief system is
SIMPLE? ____My ass.
I I watched some videos of Quantum Gravity Researc. I found the E8 very interesting, however, when they started with pseudo science my bullshit alert rang. After that I was in doubt, and it's great to see that I was not the only one. With every video I watch from Arvin Ash, I really like his lucid, intellectually honest style.
@@acidskies4348 ahahahah, funny guy.
Yes I agree "quantum gravity research " total quack, psuedo science. I am glad it was clarified here for those that may have been tricked by the well made videos from Q.G.R... and by "well made" I mean expensive, with actors and production, not with the content, lol
Why do we always dismiss things as psuedo science? But people cling to religious beliefs as fact. The only thing we know for certain, is that we know nothing. And the universe proves that to be true, time and time again.
@@b.michaelbrown1117 @Justin Winter There is truth to be found in the universe. I don't believe it is beneficial to immediately dismiss what one may see as ridiculous or "pseudo-science". I think it is important to *at least* consider the implications, for it can lead us to fantastic conclusions about our purpose in the world, and the universe. We will soon discover that the world was not as it seemed before, and that as far as scientific consensus goes, there are many who deny obvious truths in their minds for fear of retribution or ridicule. It is only when we can freely speculate on seemingly crazy ideas that we might stumble upon something that is very true for us, so to speak.
Physics and science has always been in a process of "aha! i've found the truth!" followed by cries of "no, that's stupid. that can't be the truth. you're crazy". Then, sooner or later, something about what they said eventually rings true in the context of new knowledge. The process repeats again, until we have finally found the truth.
r.e. Quantumn Gravity Research vids... omg I'm sooo glad you pointed out the pseudo-nonsense in these. I, too, was in awe of the production quality until midway through the first vid when the 'grain-of-salt' required became so big it broke their message, and my back! Thankyou.
I still hold an almost guilty-pleasure for E8 being on the right track though, because of its sheer 'Diraq-ian' beauty... the very thing (ie beauty) that has influenced so many breakthroughs in physics (and kinda rings in with a superficial(?) connection with "The Eightfold Way")
Thankyou for this vid and take care, one and all of you out there.
Regards, Mark
Thank you. I share in your guilty pleasure. Well put!
The "Large Hard-on collider" sounds like the name of a very hip and nerdy gay bar.
No it doesn't
@@Burialofagod kind of
Ouch
I want to go to there
No.
I absolutely love how interesting this is and I love how he explains it so well
Lie algebras were the reason I decided a bachelor's degree in Math was all I needed...things get really complex after that.
You missed out on the good stuff.
@@blockededited8280 Nah, I went into statistics and mathematical modeling...
I remember drawing that with a stencil pattern when I was like 5! Who would have guessed I solved everything?
when you were 120? wait nvm
Thanks for brining this one Arvin, keep up the good work.
The fact that I laughed at "Large Hardon Collider" 6:42 shows just how little of this video I was able to understand 😂
Lol I saw that too
This is great, but I lost it at "Large HARDON Collider" :D
lmfao!
@Greg Moonen seriously?
@Greg Moonen
Maybe you should leave the priding to others, it could be that they would have spotted 999 more of those missed opportunities.
You're the smart one, you figure it out.
Good night to you, sir.
Did you know there's a direct correlation between the decline of Spirograph and the rise in gang activity? Think about it!
Seems about right ..
Smart people...
Theres also a link between people going to the bathroom and dying after the age of 2.
What I'm trying to say is that, that link you've created has no effective relation whatsoever.
@@rn6045 it is a simpson reference th-cam.com/video/PbSG5JEfrVY/w-d-xo.html
LMAO!!!
I drew almost exactly the same shape from a vision in 2004 (I connected the nodes with circles instead of straight lines). I didn't know what it was, but I knew it was impactful and the whole experience of drawing and observing it for hours made my personality change from someone who was into arts and humanities into someone interested in science. So much so that I left my history course and switched to a technical university and became an engineer instead of a historian.
Excellent video ! Incidentally, you posted this on 14th March, which happens to be my birthday and also that of a very famous Physicist. When I shared the Lie group to the Facebook, a friend of mine was awestruck and informed me that he had just registered for this course in Mathematics ! I was surprised !!
Nice! Quite a coincidence.
Is this why i saw that when i took hallucinogens? It felt like i saw nature of reality
DMT? It's certainly intriguing...who knows?
I was thinking of closed eye visuals on mushrooms and acid but actually yes i did see something similar to this open eyed with dmt. That was 14 years ago and still stands out. Any tryptamine really
I had similar visuals (closed eye) on mushrooms.
@@danno6169 same
On Lucy Whenever I look at the ground like dirt or carpet or any flat surface I always see these Aztec type shapes that swirl
Thats the portal I saw when I broke through on dmt.
cool, i hope to do that soon
Yea exaxtly what i was thinking.
Your consciousness is moving about in that higher dimensional symmetry. The complexity is overwhelming, almost like a room of mirrors but yet your the center of everything, there is no up down left right. Everything moves around you.
I was gonna say that too. Shapes like this are everything and everything on dmt. It's a massive inflow of information. The chick sitting beside me was pissing herself during all this. That's how intense it was. Cool video.
Really enjoyed the video, well presented and gives lots of food for thought.
Great show Arvin. I like Astronomy and during Covid 19 shut down I was learning about the formation of stars and the elements. Next thing I know I am learning about the Standard Model, Quantum Entanglement and the Double Slit experiments. I enjoy reviewing a subject in physics like say it is Quantum Entanglement. I will watch several different shows on that subject to get a more comprehensive idea of what is going on which is a lot of fun for me. Thank you. Kevin from sunny Mexico.
I've got an open mind about a lot of things but this really sounds more intended for the Spirit Science crowd.
Why
What do you mean be spirit science
@@strategen9124 - It's a new age youtube channel that uses pseudoscience when "explaining" metaphysical concepts using goofy animation. There's a heavy emphasis on geometry, and they make many ridiculous claims.
you may be referring to quantum gravity research
@@darthutah6649 quantum stuff actually exists?
When looking at the moving depiction of the E8 Lie Group, I found it very unsettling. Like looking over the edge of a very tall building.
Nicely balanced view. Clear. Intriguing. Hopeful, rather than dismissive.
Kudos, well done. Thx for an objective, balanced presentation. It's often disappointing to check out a video on a truly interesting topic, only to find it tainted w/ misinformation/subjectivity while masquerading as science/math. FYI, I'm a math teacher, and science promoter, and as such, have a vested interest in properly presented science/math. So, great job. Thx. Keep up the awesome vids...
I love hearing about E8. Great video.
Imagine you are a living 6-sided prism. You can move forward and back, left and right, but your third axis is fixed because it runs the entire height of the universe. All of your sensory organs are also this tall, and all other people and objects in the universe are this tall. If your eyes detect a photon at any height, you register it at all heights. You would effectively live in a 2-dimensional world, and would need some pretty wacky physics to prove it was 3-dimensional.
In such a universe, let us assume the particles themselves are not the height of the universe. All particles would travel at the speed of light, but the ones traveling along the height axis would appear to travel slower. Mass would then be a function of the angle at which a particle travels with respect to the horizontal. For photons, the angle is zero, so the mass is zero. Objects which should collide instead seem to pass through one another most of the time because we do not see them going over or under particles in their way. We just see them passing through or colliding with each other arbitrarily. We would use probability functions to describe these interactions.
This model might not explain our universe, but it is an example of the kind of imagination you need to understand even a sliver of our reality. That is how the physicist do.
this was a fun thought exercise -- thank you!
This is a fascinating proposal. The descriptions of quantum interactions always occur in the form of special unitary groups, which are also Lie groups, so it sorta makes sense that a complex Lie group like E8 could potentially paint a complete picture. I wonder if the mathematical structure of E8 could give us a hint about which Lie group(s) we should use to predict grand unification.
Absolutely wonderfully explained , thank you for sharing 🙏
Dear Arvin could you please make a video about Donald Hoffman's "The Case against reality..." I am specifically interested in your analysis of the mathematics he is using and also if Quantum Theory emerges naturally out of his model?
That would be really awsome.
Excellent video. Skip Garibaldi has links to several of his mathematically rigorous papers and a more general explanation of the group on his home page. The most relevant papers by Garibaldi and Lisi may be found on arXiv.org
This is great. Excellent balanced critique of Quantum Gravity Research. Ace.
What is the greatest structure in mathematics? Is it even possible to answer this question? What if we define a structure as any set of objects, within which certain relations hold between them. Then structures are everywhere: numbers form a structure, with membership relation; groups form a structure with an amalgamation operation and inverse; rings are defined by multiplication and additive inverses; fields have addition, subtraction, multiplication and division operations. But these structures don't look really different from each other.
But what if we think of a structure as an ordered set of elements? We can then define the notion of dimension, or topology. And this is where things really begin to get interesting.
Dimension is a measure of how complicated an object is. The more independent variables are needed to fully describe the object, the higher its dimensionality. A sphere has one dimension: it can be described by two coordinates (latitude and longitude), which define a line that intersects the sphere at its center point.
A cube has two dimensions: it is described by three coordinates, which define a line that intersects the cube at its center point. A hypercube (a set of points in n-dimensional space) can be defined by n+1 values, with one value for each dimension.
A three-dimensional cube is a set of points in four dimensional space. Likewise, if we consider hypercubes that live in 5 or more dimensions, then the number of coordinates needed to define such an object grows exponentially with dimensionality.
What if we want to describe a shape that lives in 10 dimensions? We would need one billion (10^9) numbers. Think about it! This is where the concept of dimensionality really starts getting interesting!
Thanks for calling bs on that Quantum Gravity Research group.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I still love their videos Great productions I have to say. And of course, the narrator is excellent.
When Klee Irwin brings up the conjecture of a Planck scale decision making operator, he clearly says that it's conjecture and that we don't necessarily have to anthropomorphize it. He literally says doing so would be new agey.
Nowhere did he speculate that this Planck scale operator is god, but I suppose that's the way you've taken it.
Think of all the mathematicians who did literally believe in god. There's no shortage of them. Why read between the lines and find belief in god where it may not exist when both of the inventors of calculus have plenty of that sort of thing that you can pour through?
(asking for a friend)
@UCVshWPY8Tx1e5l608H3dIWA It seems to me belief in the original old G grows the closer they get to the end
@@ArvinAsh They are trying to mathematically model consciousness. I believe consciousness exists independent of the physical reality. We need more scientists like them who try to figure out the mathematics behind consciousness and it's interaction with matter. (In the same way physicists have been figuring out the workings of nature since the last 300 years).
P.S. Amazing name
I went into a high dose DMT trip with the intention of learning the nature of reality. I was transported to the center of this pattern but everything was shiny gold. It was moving all around me, never static.
Great vid! Very fun and highly educational to watch.
I did enjoy it. I think it's important (and I know there are other people doing it; I appreciate them, too) that there are people explaining things to those of us who dont have higher math backgrounds. I think it's often ignored that one doesnt have to have the math to understand the structure.
This has given me a severe headache... an intellectual one.. I feel elevated.!
Well am I the only one who does not understand even 1% of this video and watched it till the end?
No, you are not. I don't see any connection whatsoever between this E8 object and the standard model. Seems like mumbo jumbo.
UMIT YAYLA 🙋🏽♂️
yes
I'll translate when the psilocybin kicks in
DATING HARLEY QUINN Alright buddy, then explain the gravity correlation thing to us
i just watched part of Mathemaniac's ongoing series about Lie algebra/groups/etc... and it was tempting to pattern‐seek into mysticism for inspiration (for me), but i wanna limit that catharsis‐driven over‐mathematicalization of physics, and this video helped me see E8 as a highly useful transformation that includes reductions (of maths elegance and notions of representative beauty) that are thoroughly broken by physics.
It's a highly useful tool, but it's not everything even if it feels better that it be everything or possibly everything.
Spot on dude!! Well produced and approachable style!
I feel this is the theory that will prove itself in time!!! I also agree with your statements on their unfortunate mixing pseudo-science and their interesting CEO, Klee Irwin.
The predicted particles missing could be dark matter.
@Steve Owen There is a category type for dark matter and it is put of two subcategories of particles. Weakly Interacting Small Particles (WISPs) and Weakly Interacting Massive Particles (WIMPs) which try to theorize the quanta of Dark Matter like Axions (WISPs) which interact weakly with photons and mostly with the Graviton field or General Relativity.
if the connections equate to how things react to each other in real interactions, couldnt that be used in reverse to find these 24 generations of matter? im an artist not a math or science boy.
This is basically how the early Periodic Table of Elements was used to predict the properties of elements that hadn't been discovered yet.
Exactly, that how you would test the theory. You use the model to predict the properties of the missing particles, then you use the hadron collider to try to find matching particles. If you find them, it’s likely true, if you find particles that have no match to those in the model, then it’s false.
Yaknow, I really wonder now if this can be tested using our accelerators. Perhaps even the planned geneva one that may or may not come to fruition. Would be cool if e8 lie lattice or w.e could be used as a way to predict possible particles as of yet unknown
@@oscill8ocelot exactly, even though this is quite far fetched this could be like a periodic table for sub atomic particles
Thanks, I was searching for an update in this matter.
I've viewed the Quantum Gravity Research video's which admittedly launched me on my insatiable physics journey. Their video's are very entertaining but until 3 years later (now), watching Arvin Ash's interpretation of it, I thought that it was an entirely separate theory to Einstein and Neils Bhor. It seemed too far fetched. But now I see where it's originating from, so thank you Arvin Ash for that. But their video definitely let them down by not explaining the basics to physics noobs like I used to be.
And Arvin Ash does say that they begin speaking of strange concepts of consciousness which could be emotionally influenced by the creator. But a Theory of Everything must include the radical concept of Einsteins deterministic universe which has SERIOUS implications on human experience. So this is most likely where consciousness gets tied into it.
It's still a fascinating viewing experience that stretches your mind and is fun to watch. Do recommend. If only to get more peoples minds thinking outside the box in search of the truth of reality.
About quantum gravity channel you’re all right.
Whenever I showed it to scientific minds or someone just well aware of science documentaries they’ve looked back at me sceptically.
Totally psuedo science, garbage
I was reading a book last night when there suddenly occurred to me a very simple way of unifying the standard model with general relativity. But there wasn't enough room in the margins of the page to write out the mathematics. This morning I had forgotten it. Perhaps I'll remember later.
Haha...you came so close to the Nobel prize. But at least please tell us what book you were reading.
Alice in Wonderland..😂😂
Or The Matrix..
LSD bruh
Garrett Lisi is brilliant. Quantum Gravity Research center is working on this right now. Physics is changing with our technology and with new technology, we are proving that String Theory is becoming obsolete. E8 lattice is why I started my undergraduate studies in Physics.
And guess what CERN just discovered 3 new 'exotic' particles using LHC🌊👽
That E8 image is geometry, and it's balanced geometry. Good enough to create a series of balanced, consistent functional relationships. I'd suggest using the Mandelbrot function to explore the relationships to give a consistent if time-consuming formula to map E8. Thing is that I think you'd wind up with a mandala.
I feel like I’ve just stumbled upon a new favourite channel 👍
Me too!
Alright, now you got me. Your very rational take on the Quantum Gravity bunch was good to hear.
Great video, helped me better understand E8 while reading Lost in Math
Really enjoyed your critique of that e8 and clarity on explaining exactly what’s going on. That original video l just watched was a distracting as it took away how our brain naturally process on difficult concepts. Can you also do a video on the double slit experiment? That experiment is super weird. I am still trying to understand whether reality is just a perception or not?
It would be cool if someone could 3D print a representation of this.
But you would need an 8D printer or it won't be 8 dimensional.
It's clear you didn't understand anything in this video. The diagram is a 2D projection from an 8D shape.
@@lordkrythic6246 its clear youre a douche.
@@lordkrythic6246 Actually, its a flattened 3D representation of a 4D projection. say you interpolate the interactions between them like you can do with a light if you have 2 pieces 2D grids or holed shapes and move them on top of each other. Although 4D is still kind of problematic for our brains to comprehend.
@@Oxxygen_io
So you just admitted that it's an orthographic projection, and is therefore 2D? God, you're an idiot.
Someone needs to study the relationship between dmt and e8 lattice. You literally experience e8 lattice as a type of 8d awareness on high dose dmt. Like e8 lattice is everything connected into one thing. Almost like it’s god. Like your god. Your e8 lattice. You are all of reality.
At the very base of it all you are a high dimensional geometric awareness
Interesting. I have heard that before.
Thanks for the heads up on that channel, quantum gravity research
I like that you addressed the pseudo science nonsense that those people promote. I was a bit interested in this E8 Lie group theory I had heard about, but when I saw those unsubstantiated pseudo science claims I ended up rejecting the whole thing, and directed my interests elsewhere. It's a shame if some new age BS stands in the way for attention to, and funding for, some otherwise promising research.
I’ve seen this type of geometric structures while on LSD. I’m not sure if it’s because LSD allows for the unlocking of new information or just unlock something we already had because we are part of the universe
Khardellen I have the seen the same repeatedly when using Lsd. Perhaps it is not our eyes seeing, but the ‘projections’ of true reality being seen within us, printed through us and everything and glimpsed at through the psychedelic experience...
Thom Carter that’s a good perspective
The effect of all those projections, from 8 dimensions to 4 to 3 to 2, is really just a 2-dimensional projection of an 8-dimensional object.
The complexity isn't in the succession of many projections - *it's in the fact that the object itself is 8-dimensional!!*
Fred
Everything is 9
The math of E8 is sound,
but the rest are just wild guesses.
This is so interesting!!!!!! Thank you for the video !
They lose a lot of credibility saying you would need to find 24 new particle, it's 24/8 without acounting for supersymmetry. Makes it feel like they didn't do their research properly
I was thinking the same thing. Also, Z is really two particles (Z+ and Z-) and the Higgs boson is not included. So that's 30 particles. That leaves one missing particle of the 248/8 = 31 particles "predicted" by E8. Dark matter? Also, what are the 8 quantum numbers Lisi associates to each particle?
i really like you're videos. You're the best!! Keep making new video's!
People need to stop spreading this bullshit
You're great bro. Keep up the good work 👍🏿
That time the LHC was referred to as the Large Hardon Collider. Lmao. Excellent video but I can't stop cracking up.
You're on to me!
Great explanation awesom
Taking it at face value, I plotted consciousness data points on to Lie’s figure and it seem to complete the schematic...then it spoke to me telepathically.
I appreciate your clarification of the Quantum Gravity people.
I like it when you comment on other science channels and explain their validity or invalidity. Yea I don’t always know what is true versus pseudoscience so I appreciate your input. Love your channel, it’s so approachable and clear. Uh, but I don’t understand E8 still.
A theoretical shape. Purely mathematical. Like a cube. The mathematical idea of a cube.
This is just the same. Just with more symmetry and dimensions.
Sums it up pretty well!
The theoretical shape of my pp is larger than the reality can u help pls
Yeah its all about the cubes with these people.
I thought E8 was one of the 5 versions of string theory before M-theory unified the 5 in a major development.
It's not. It's a different theory.
This I like. Reminds me of a quote... "Which is gonna give first Bruce, your Spirit or ya body?" Wonderfully described. This is how I see the merkaba or how ever you wanna spell it. The auric energy field of the human spirit. Shit math just got more complicated. Love it!
It's 2023 and we now have Pentaquarks and Tetraquarks... so what now?
After having watched this. Take a look at the North Rose Window, Notre Dame, Paris, France. Does it now look somewhat familiar?
Dude.....
This is a great video thank you for the information.
I will say, I am not fond of the need to bring up other video creators just to say their information is not valid.
There was no need for you to do that to present your information.
E8 is an interesting idea. Look forward to seeing experimental evidence, one way or the other.
Thank you so much for this!! Some of these concepts seemed to me to have legit origins, but QGR clearly has an agenda. Their founder likes to point the finger at established scientists in general for being closed minded... this instead of focusing on his own research. Much like the advocates of water memory.
If this geometry is a correct or correct enough representation of how the universe works, then it should reveal some of the properties of these unknown particles and their relation to one another right? Like what energies and particle interactions are needed to create them?
This is exactly what I was thinking. If there are missing points we at least know their connections, which means that we do have info about it. If not we are also missing forces according to the E8 model then.
I wonder, when you will be able to go to the 23th dimension, teleport yourself 45 googoplex light years away, create 523 googol universes by simulation, will you even then, bother to think? . HELLO, I AM YOU, WAKE UP, This is how reality works, hello, its nothingness and everything at the same time, you are interacting with yourself, Hello, description of appearances does not say how appearances come into being. Why cant you get it, are you so dellusional that you think this comment is written by someone else? You are writting this comment now yourself. Yes lets see how we can link appearances but we will have to use them in the most profound way possible, science is amazing, and discovering all the 2nd order reality is amazing, but what reality is? we are nothing , understand it, contemplate this.
Thedeepseanomad
Have you ever heard of TheMyCockInYourMouth theory??
Lines connect the dots that you arbitrarily assign to particles, duh.
The rest is magic or something, I don't know.
@@coreycantwell2019 read my comment, thats it, you dont think it deep enough
What music track is playing at the beginning please? I’ve heard it before and I love it’s mathematical enigmatic simplicity. Thanks 🙏🏼
It is called "Sun is shining" by Jason Donnelly, produced by BMI.
The universe is the play, the dance, of absolute, infinite, eternal, unlimited Consciousness. Since it is unlimited it cannot be dualistically described using limiting relativisms. Love the vid! Thanks!
Don’t they only have to find 12 particles? Cuz they each may have their anti equivalents
And shouldn't that be divided by 8?
Not if the anti equivalent is already a known particle. I don't know if the Higgs, or some of the gauge bosons have anti-matter equivalents in the current understanding of the standard model.
It seems almost like they only need to find three, which presents a problem with symmetry. Each particle has an antiparticle, and each one has eight quantum numbers. 24 missing particles, only three are missing, meaning either one of them is in both symmetries, or some aspect of the theory is wrong.
Or I need to learn more about Quantum Mechanics, because I’ve learned from TH-cam and other google searches rather than decades of university study. I’m willing to hear how I’m misunderstanding this.
@@firebladetenn6633 If one of them is the gravitron then it should not have an antiparticle.
I think the missing particles are the supersymmetric particles
'Wow.. sounds like a bunch of woo-woo crap to me! What was that bit about the 24 missing particles again? You know, the one that you just kind of swept under the rug?
drlegendre: There are 24 dark matter particles!!! EUREKA !!! Where's my Noble Prize?
He didnt sweep it under the rug. He mentioned it several times, and even said that the guy who came up with the idea said it’s probably not true
Lol... that's a big missing piece. Plus the inclusion of the force carrying particles... yes there probably undiscovered particles, but to make the jump to 24, or to the e8 is a stretch.
The spiro-graph image! I know this from my childhood.
Thanks for the video
Multiple mathematicians and super computer? Bullshit! I made an E8 group with Knex as a kid lol