Making indie games definitely sounds great but you should keep in mind how many indie games actually made some money. I will only tell you that .. not many.
@@mistakenmeme The problem with doing high risk high reward stuff is that it will not work out most of the time and for vast majority it will never. So it's up to you to decide if you want that to be your life. Life is short.
@@mistakenmeme The only sad thing to me is the fact that you have to bury the childhood dreams that doesn't makes any sense when you are an adult and find some new ones. There might be some cool stuff out there to do ..
C++ for most studios. If you work at a studio that uses Unity Game Engine, then C#. C++ has a little more control and therefore is more often used as games require the upmost control and predictably.
@letter h Are you referring to Unity? Because if so it's kinda irrelevant. You still use C#. It's just an abstract layer you don't need to think about really. Not saying you aren't wrong, but it's not a requirement to know to program in Unity if that makes sense?
@letter h That depends, as far as I'm concerned every relevant modern engine is written in C++, but the game itself may be written in whicherver language the engine supports. While Unity uses C# for creating game systems, Unreal Engine (which is way more powerful and complicated) uses C++, and many companies have in-house engines in which they implement the most apropriate tech for their goals / budget. It all depends on how the classes and functions are writen, but it's usually C++ due to it compiling to machine code (assembly, then bin) instead of CLR, as well as manual memory management (take a look at UE4 or SDL2, pointers are essential).
@tjejsong I know, but I just answered to "not have pointers" btw, what do you mean with "binary close processor operations"? Do you mean things like bitshifting bitwise-OR etc.?
stick to only one programming language, I will recommend C++, I will guarantee you if you learn C++ properly, other programming languages will be like drinking water.
@@shiwari1280 Object Oriented language. an object in essence is a set of data bundle together that can represent a physical object. so for example in javascript this his what an object is var john = { height: 6, weight: 160, age: 26 } john is the "object" and the information inside the brackets are elements of john. if you are getting into programming I highly suggest you spend alot of time researching objects in you chosen language. especially if you want to program for video games because everything you will be dealing with will be an object. from the pplayer character to the doors the player opens
Learning about game development isn't necessarily a bad thing. It allows you to learn about languages and algorithms in a fun way. Which is great 👍 Sadly the AAA industry is one of the worst environments you can work in. 😔
As he says, game programming is a good way to learn about programming and software engineering, even if you don't go into the field. Plus, you might end up making small games on your own or with some friends, which can be fun and rewarding. The industry is extremely hard to get into, literally harder than being hired by a national laboratory, and it sounds like it isn't really worth it. But making games for fun is great!
I have never read anything good about working for a big game company. If game dev is your "dream", avoid Ubisoft [the company Stef's talking about] and all the others at their level. Instead, do some small side projects yourself as learning exercises-only then will you know for sure if it's your dream. If it is, consider making your own games, or maybe banding together with 2-3 friends-incl an artist!-to do same. Indie games are rising as AAA games become more and more about the graphics and rewarming of previous titles for revenue-ie a general drop in gameplay quality.
@Ryan Dulac It's better to be the head of a chicken rather than the tail of a bull. I'm currently moving further in the opposite direction but I'm planning a hard reverse in 2 years. Not programming though.
@Ryan Dulac Nah, man :) I'm in aviation and tech stuff in general. I'm going to bump it up a notch moving to the West. But I keep a lookout on coding because eventually I'm going to come back to Poland. And in Poland... any construction worker earns as much as an engineer. And here we (as in politicians and bussiness owners - those fuckers never know until it hits them) wonder why we can't make a jump from a cheap workforce source to a country that retains talent and does make an impact.
Also the learning curve for game dev is steeper. With the skills to become a great game dev (C++, maths, understanding of physics etc.) you could get into robotics, become a google engineer or work for various manufacturers earning a vastly higher sum.
@@clipwtf Psychics? You mean physics? You need to understand physics to implement things like acceleration, deceleration, collision effects, particle physics, destruction effects, wave simulation, and even light transforms. Anything that is meant to have the effect of making a game more realistic requires a fundamental, even advanced, understanding of physics.
I have never used Ruby or had any contact with it but it seems its biggest achievement is to inspire Rails-like functionality in other languages. "We will steal all your good ideas and then you can #@$& off."
This is exactly what I say all the time. I worked on middle sized game studio/60 people for almost 3 years which produced 2 full price multi-platform titles a year. I also worked in the game industry as a freelancer (just a little bit). .. and I don't take any game jobs anymore I actually try to stay away from game jobs because the pay is usually low, the quality of projects and clients is low and the competition is high plus you are really just a disposable rat in the machinery. Making game in the small team might be fun if you can really personalize yourself with the creation and be proud of your work but as the career choice it usually sucks. Making game and playing games are two completely different things. When you reach over 30, 35 you will start to think differently. Everything that you had your dream as a child another 100 million other children has as a dream as well and thus the competition will be insanely high, the industry will be saturated and pay might be not sustainable or downright zero. (like making music, paintings ...) Don't get me wrong there are some high paying jobs in the game industry if you get into big studio but the crunch times, disposability, overal chaos and scale of nonsenseness will grow you a ton of gray hair. It's really best to split fun from the work .. if you want to have both you might have none.
But it's so much fun, much more than a best optimized bank app will ever give you. I took it up solely as a hobby and I don't even know if I ever manage any Steam releases. Even then I'll be shocked if more than five people would ever buy one. I have no illusion in this department. Yet the feeling you get seeing your painstakingly engineered segments walking over the screen upon arrow key input, in alternating animations simulating leg movement... no payslip will ever grant you that.
Game dev is a highly transferable career though. Studios crash or are closed all the time. They operate on only a few contracts at most, so most game devs are moving from job to job, and employers usually understand. I think they just look for portfolios and resumes.
Been dabbling with monogame lately, just as a side project. It's really fun. Based on what I know about the AAA gaming industry though, I don't think I want to be part of that.
If you’ve been around gaming community you would know about this whole problem. How working in Activision is a toxic and not friendly environment or how Blizzards suddenly fired 800 employees and so on... I would definitely think twice about becoming a game developer in this current industry.
There's plenty of non-blizzard studios, smaller studios that do great stuff and are fun to work at. Having said that - the friends I have that work at blizzard love it - so even then, it probably depends where in the larger studio system you work.
yea blizzard did lay off 800 but they didnt lay off many programmers because programmers who have been working for years at these companies are very valuable and hard to replace
Had a hard time getting into programming with c++, even with Udemy UE4 courses. The Unity c# courses (especially the official unity c# one) went a lot smoother and I learned much more. If you're having trouble learning programming, start with c# and move on to c++ later. At least that's my plan and it's going O.K. for now.
If you are a solo independent game developer than I recommend you C# and Unity But if you are looking to work in a studio than learn C++ to get a higher chance of finding a game developer job because most studios specially the big ones uses C++
I think there is a few things here. Game Engine development is mostly done in C++ AFAIK. Game Scripting and Tools creation is dependant on what Engine you're using and can be just about any language. I've seen JS, Lua, Python, C#, C++. If you want to be a game programmer you will want to focus on finding an engine you like, such as Unity or Unreal. Learning how to make some basic games to create a portfolio, this will help you get your foot in the door with gaming companies and to start with you'll probably be looking at smaller studios. The language/languages each particular studio will use is dependant on the tools and engines they've already got in place. Use your knowledge from creating those basic games to get into whatever tools they have. Don't focus so much on the "tool" but the solution as my boss always says. Coding languages are tools, yes you want to understand how to use them but familiarizing yourself with "game programming" and "game logic" and understanding game development is more important to work as a game programmer, than the tool you're using. My advice is to pick an engine you think looks interesting. Do some youtube tutorials, read documentation, start learning how to write scripts, throw some game objects out there start making them interact, build some systems that are interesting to you. You'll get there, just be persistent and patient.
And use C++ and Unreal or another C++ engine if you can, but make sure it doesn't take a ton of configuration, which is possible thanks to Visual Studio 2022. You can start there and work towards using another IDE later.
C# and C++ are great languages and C# can also be used for web. It is also so similar to Java that one can easily make a switch between one and the other. And C++ is not as daunting as a lot of people claim it to be. Maybe it is easier to learn if you first start with higher level language like C# or Java. Programming games also requires a lot of maths and in that regard web development is easier on you.
I agree web dev requires less math but it makes up for it with all the other stuff you have to know just to do it according to employers. I looked at some Game dev jobs, the only requirement is know the language and have the math down. For web it is know the langauge plus tons of frameworks on our wish list ;). Web pays more in general.
@@computernerd8157 Exactly! Depends on what you prefer: maths or tons of frameworks. Sure web pays more, but you know, some persons are simply not cut for it. After some trial period I decided that web is not for me, so I'm taking my chances with games. I think that once you've made up your mind you need to stay on this track because to have any success either in games or in web you'll need to dedicate yourself fully to that field. There's a lot, a lot, a lot to learn and it isn't enough, you've got to be fluent and fast in it.
@@adamodimattia I agree with you. I personally want to do games to build my own brand. I will do web development to help a company or individual as a job. Honestly, I am not a big fan of working for companies because they want you to have a degree to do things that a degree is not necessary for and they look down on Associate Degree's which I have. I am planning on getting starting a B.S Program next year. If I can get this degree, I might consider doing games instead of web. I want to use all that math I am going to be forced to learn. I don't understand why web developers have to be a computer scientist just to build a web site. It is like saying that I have to be a Rocket Scientist to build Cars. Algorithm analysis is a must but all that other stuff is over kill as of today.
@@computernerd8157 Yes! That's completely ridiculous for me too that many of companies require a scientific degree for building websites. One will never use any of it in that kind of job, it is laughable, like you are supposed to be a space engineer to write js or set up a rest from pre-build modules :) If anyone has those degrees they ask for he or she is unlikely to get into web dev.
Learning either will take you into other areas besides gaming industry using Unity or Unreal Engine. You can work for a business that does tutorials and they may use Unity or Unreal. Companies like Lockheed Martin look for Unreal Engine c++ developers for some of their projects. Engines like Unreal are not only used for gaming.
Just couple quick questions here Stefan. Do you see a reason to learn old high level programming languages such as Cobol? I'm intrigued to learn little bit about them. Do you see a benefit of having a knowledge of them on job market? Do you have any expertise of High level programming languages?
i talked to my dad (ex IT with cobol) about it, there's a very low demand in industry for that, so in order to benefit anything with it, you need to be very fluent or confident and better than many programmers in industry but it wont be very long before it gets reduced even further.
Supposedly, all of those select few Cobalt, Fortran and assembly veterans hardly ever get any work and when they do, it's for pisspoor money. And they can't demand more since in the vast majority of cases, upgrading the hardware to work with C is simply a matter of money. If people doing it are relatively cheap to hire, then there's no reason to go through that trouble. But if the supply starts running dry, then they will simply bite the bullet and upgrade. Maybe this one programmer they hired to supervise it will get a slightly better contract than the rest. But he, too, will be essentially digging his own grave by limiting the demand for maintenence over the only language he's proficient in.
Wow, if I were just listening to this I would think you were speaking in an auditorium on a panel or something. That's a truly impressive amount of reverb you got going on there.
If you compare the software development branch of a game development studio to the game development branch of said studio, you will find different qualities of life, if you look outside of the gameing industry theres more quality of life... if you are worried that software dev skills wont translate into gamedev skills then thats a wrong thought to have... best thing to do is, do it your own time... no need to worry and you can make some money ob the side, you wont HAVE to!
One man Indy Developers typically also need bespoke graphical/audio assets, which unlike business development can use an established UI API for the most part, with minimal assets
I jumped on the c# wagon and I l am still not sure I picked the right language. I started fine tuning my skills about 4 years ago and with self study and just trying out things I am no where near where I want to be. I know I should put what I know to use in Unity but the older I get the less attractive games are to me... anyone else feeling this?
Mainstream langages in the gaming industry are not the only one you'll be tested to apply for a job. Even if the company is C#/Unity based or Unreal/C++ based, you could be tested for basic C programming, pointers, bit rotation, maths...
C++ is not fun, period. However, every computer programmer should be able to read and write C++ code. Not necessarily use it for every single project - always use the best tool to get the job done - but... C++ forces you to learn a lot about the way in which computers work. It's tough. Low level is tough. BUT - once you get it, other languages will start making sense, because you will understand what is happening under the hood. So if you consider yourself to be a qualified computer programmer, please do learn C or C++. If you think C++ is fun, learn assembly.
But there are more people who THINK they’re good coders than actual good coders. I know Assembly, C++, and iOS Swift and now I’m considering learning C#. I swear, it never ends!
you are absolutely right our company closed after 2 years, programmers are not well good in game logic but they can program only so they cannot offer a good game structure and they closed for good!
@@khanhchung4103 yeah, i see. I'd rather choose backend in my case.. because I find frontend a bit annoying.. i've got a friend who's progressing good there. So i thought of getting into back
@@ukLz666 Is it because you have to "make it look right", whereas in backend programming, you just have to make it work? I'm more of a front end developer. I'm slowly but surely learning backend.
in terms of forming a career i believe Ben Franklin had it best. peruse a career not necessarily glamorous but will get you paid well (starting his own printing business) and save the fun jobs or side hustles you like when you made it or have free time (scientific study and inventing). if the fun job is your plan A or your only plan usually what happens is either you never make it because you are diluted by the competition or you have to hustle so hard to get notice and stressed to make ends meet your fun job becomes a chore.
For anyone watching this Stefan doesn't really know anything about this field, while he's right learning to be a programmer makes u flexible all else fail. Don't be scared to be diligent a get into this field if you're serious.
Marketing has taught me a product instantly becomes better just by renaming it. It may not seem like it but the commercials say so, therefore it is. Especially when they add pretty colors.
does this guy ever just say "i don't know" ?? i mean why is he advising or commenting on an industry he knows nothing about, absolutly 0. even if he get's lucky or does some basic research before answering you are getting an answer about programming in c in the gaming indistry froma person whom number one is not a professional C coder or any lower compiled language for that matter. and number two he is not a gamer and he never wrote a game or worked in the gaming industry. this is like asking the guy at the hyundai dealer what you need to do to be ready for a career in nascar. wake up sheesh
It's well known that any profession that is perceived as fun will usually abuse their workers' passions unless they are lucky. That is very true for game development. Not every employer is the same but to find a company that is stable and gives you fair trade between money and your time is very difficult even for experts. Those experts are the ones that usually wind up getting those jobs. Since this video is about people wanting to start game development he is 100% correct in what he says, it's going to be grueling.
@@pt8292 i understand that and when he said that i agreed and he did a decent job answering the question under the circumstances of not knowing jack shit about the question. the issue is however he hand picked this question it isnt like you asked him in a bar and he tried to give an opinion or answer. this is a guy who makes a bunch of shallow videos about various topics most of which he isn't really qualified to answer. he has not been relevant as a developer in almost 20 years. none of his content beonyd htm tags or pre grid css is tutorial based so there is no evidence of his credentials since he came onto the scene originally. he was skilled at one time i am sure but the times passed him byu as a developer or industry insider. ppl asking him about employment when he has not worked for a company in 20 years again if he kept up on coding and web development he would be offering tutorials not answering questions ppl may or may not even be asking. to give some ciontext here i have had access to studioweb, his courses, and it is dated as fuck borther. it is actually pretty bad, and he only does the basic shit another kid does the php and projects. my main thing is he is a youtbuber at this point not a developer and not an educator. his business is not freelance coding either if it was he would be dangling all his credentials on youtube there are none in the last decade. he talks like ther eis tho. he chooses wording like "when i work on an enterprise freelance app in react..." but i am telling i bet he has done nothing of the sort since back in the day when he made killer sites. . to come fulll circle on my point here i usually let it slide and dont watch but i happen to be learning C atm and when i saw him try and hop in on theC and gaming clicks it pissed me off. he is not a developer, he never worked in a compiled language he acannot code in c and he never worked in the market the guy asked about. wouldn't you think if he is answering questions via email thisis one he maybe shoulda passed on? or are you gonna just shill for him?
I've been working with software for the last 10 years and I have also been watching Stefan's videos for some time now. He knows what he's talking about and he knows his limitations. He always tells you when he knows something because he heard from a friend, or when he just doesn't know enough about the subject. Plus, when you have 20+ years of experience in the area, you know a lot of people. You worked at a lot of different places. You saw a lot of videos. You tried to start your own companies. You taught a lot of stuff to a lot of people. You had a lot of co-workers and colleagues, several of those old folks changed carreers and worked at other types of companies and told you the stories. So even if you never worked at that specific area, it is perfectly possible to know the reality of it. Also, he never said "don't go there". He just spoke about some pros and cons.
Been working on learning game development for close to 2 years and haven't made a dime yet. Even once you think you've made it, you may want to look a little further ahead. And geometry and calculus aren't fun, but a big part of making games. Prepare to learn way more than you expected to with game dev'.
They say if you want to ruin a great hobby, do it for a living. I think he's probably right about it not being fun. Gaming is fun, making games as a programmer for a games company, probably not so much. I'd say making your OWN game would be very rewarding...so as comments here suggest - Indie
Focus on being a good programmer writing efficient code in c# is more effective at getting you a job than writing bad c++ code but c++ when you are a good dev will make you write the most fastest code but its easy to write bad code. They could even teach you c++ it is easy learning it if you know c# it is syntactically different but work very similarly.
That would be interesting as I am currently working on a personal project with a REST service and am wondering how best to secure the POST and PUT parts.
Game development would suck as a job. Any job is stressful but I imagine GD would be the worst. It would be no better than working in a widget factory except you have to think more. SQL development and data analysis is an easier programming career and stick to game dev as a hobby...like I do. And between C++ and C# there's only one choice if you're learning from scratch. C#.
I have two questions. I'm self learning Java now and I have only vary basic knowledge of object oriented programing. I have chosen to make a project that could be used in real life, a Computer Repair Shop software for tracking tickets, devices, clients and other related things. I have chosen to learn the language by using it while making a project. Is this good or bad way to learn programing? And the other thing, while I am learning the language I have also focused on learning good coding style so I don't pick up bad habits in code writing. Am I focusing on code style prematurely, or is it good to learn that hand in hand with the language itself?
Coding style is subjective and mostly bs depending on which courses you take. It’s something you’ll make your own as time passes. What you really want to pick up is best practices for implementation, i.e. declaring variables for efficient memory usage, etc...
If you start as a gane developer but the crunch and whatever is too bad wouldnt you have skills needed to get a job at another company not in game dev?
OK, I will demonstrate my profound ignorance of game development by asking if games written in C# only target XBox? And if you write a game in C++ do you just need to compile the exact same code for various platforms?
JavaScript is the best (and only?) language for creating games that run natively in the browser. p5.js is a nice graphics library for doing that. The processing language has similar functionality to p5, but it's a Java-like language. Alternatively, you could make games in Unity and C#, and create a webGL build for the browser, but keep in mind that it may not run quickly, especially with 3D assets.
When you're a plasterer, trust me, being a plumber looks glamorous. I've just started at college, after 20 years in construction, to get away from dirty low paid work.
Judging by what I’ve been hearing, if I _were_ gonna go into game development, I would rather go Indie.
I am of the same opinion.
Me too!
Making indie games definitely sounds great but you should keep in mind how many indie games actually made some money. I will only tell you that .. not many.
@@mistakenmeme The problem with doing high risk high reward stuff is that it will not work out most of the time and for vast majority it will never.
So it's up to you to decide if you want that to be your life. Life is short.
@@mistakenmeme The only sad thing to me is the fact that you have to bury the childhood dreams that doesn't makes any sense when you are an adult and find some new ones.
There might be some cool stuff out there to do ..
C++ for most studios. If you work at a studio that uses Unity Game Engine, then C#.
C++ has a little more control and therefore is more often used as games require the upmost control and predictably.
@letter h Are you referring to Unity? Because if so it's kinda irrelevant. You still use C#. It's just an abstract layer you don't need to think about really. Not saying you aren't wrong, but it's not a requirement to know to program in Unity if that makes sense?
@letter h That depends, as far as I'm concerned every relevant modern engine is written in C++, but the game itself may be written in whicherver language the engine supports. While Unity uses C# for creating game systems, Unreal Engine (which is way more powerful and complicated) uses C++, and many companies have in-house engines in which they implement the most apropriate tech for their goals / budget. It all depends on how the classes and functions are writen, but it's usually C++ due to it compiling to machine code (assembly, then bin) instead of CLR, as well as manual memory management (take a look at UE4 or SDL2, pointers are essential).
@tjejsong C# has pointers (in unsafe mode), but it's disabled by default (unsafe context)
@tjejsong I know, but I just answered to "not have pointers"
btw, what do you mean with "binary close processor operations"? Do you mean things like bitshifting bitwise-OR etc.?
@letter h Not for long, it's being change to C#
unpaid child labor also known as game development
Hahaha Oh god I wish that wasn't so true... :(
And that's why indie games are a thing
@@Anonymity55 developer aka a game maker.
Can they do anything else other than making games?
These so-called developers
LOL!
Nor Priest You probably couldn't make a basic website
When he tells a ruby joke it just brightens my day
I didn't get it
@@ilyesmilyesm2576 hey sorry. Can I ask for a favor?
If yes my mom ran out of milk
Can I milk you😐😐?
@@swasbasas8063 NANI?!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU SICK WEIRDO!!!!
Ah yes , the dead language
@@0CoSmOs-_- Your logo made me confused whether my screen has a scratch in it?
stick to only one programming language, I will recommend C++, I will guarantee you if you learn C++ properly, other programming languages will be like drinking water.
STRAIGHT UP
yeah since most OO languages are based on C
@@unscripted483I'm new into programming world. What's an oo language?
@@shiwari1280 Object Oriented language. an object in essence is a set of data bundle together that can represent a physical object. so for example in javascript this his what an object is
var john = {
height: 6,
weight: 160,
age: 26
}
john is the "object" and the information inside the brackets are elements of john.
if you are getting into programming I highly suggest you spend alot of time researching objects in you chosen language.
especially if you want to program for video games because everything you will be dealing with will be an object. from the pplayer character to the doors the player opens
@@unscripted483 woah thanks for that
You talk to me like my father does, that's why I love this channel. I'm always learning and thinking different things. Greetings from Brazil buddy!
Hue Hue BRBR. Negócio é Python na veia
yeah me too... if i had a father that is.
🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
É nois
Learning about game development isn't necessarily a bad thing. It allows you to learn about languages and algorithms in a fun way. Which is great 👍
Sadly the AAA industry is one of the worst environments you can work in. 😔
Whats AAA industry ?
@@i7sni331 Essentially everything that gets produced by a major publisher.
@@i7sni331 Learn to use Google for your questions of this nature if you're planning to be a programmer... or anything involving thinking.
Why is the environment bad?
@@pierrepucheu probably because of the expenses you have to do
As he says, game programming is a good way to learn about programming and software engineering, even if you don't go into the field. Plus, you might end up making small games on your own or with some friends, which can be fun and rewarding. The industry is extremely hard to get into, literally harder than being hired by a national laboratory, and it sounds like it isn't really worth it. But making games for fun is great!
It’s true. I learned Python by building silly games with pygame. It was a more fun way to learn and kept me engaged
I have never read anything good about working for a big game company. If game dev is your "dream", avoid Ubisoft [the company Stef's talking about] and all the others at their level. Instead, do some small side projects yourself as learning exercises-only then will you know for sure if it's your dream.
If it is, consider making your own games, or maybe banding together with 2-3 friends-incl an artist!-to do same. Indie games are rising as AAA games become more and more about the graphics and rewarming of previous titles for revenue-ie a general drop in gameplay quality.
It reminded me what a solid job a contracted animator did for The signal from Tolva.
@Ryan Dulac It's better to be the head of a chicken rather than the tail of a bull. I'm currently moving further in the opposite direction but I'm planning a hard reverse in 2 years. Not programming though.
@Ryan Dulac Nah, man :) I'm in aviation and tech stuff in general. I'm going to bump it up a notch moving to the West. But I keep a lookout on coding because eventually I'm going to come back to Poland. And in Poland... any construction worker earns as much as an engineer. And here we (as in politicians and bussiness owners - those fuckers never know until it hits them) wonder why we can't make a jump from a cheap workforce source to a country that retains talent and does make an impact.
As a former EA employee, can confirm Silver Solver's comment.
I just want to tell good stories using a fun game :( If I can make 5 sales thats enough for me
Also the learning curve for game dev is steeper. With the skills to become a great game dev (C++, maths, understanding of physics etc.) you could get into robotics, become a google engineer or work for various manufacturers earning a vastly higher sum.
thats why i do both :)
Do web dev or robotics or something else as a day job, then do game dev as a side hustle
why would you need to know psychics ?
@@clipwtf Psychics? You mean physics?
You need to understand physics to implement things like acceleration, deceleration, collision effects, particle physics, destruction effects, wave simulation, and even light transforms. Anything that is meant to have the effect of making a game more realistic requires a fundamental, even advanced, understanding of physics.
@@connoisseurofcookies2047 typo, but i see i understand i didn’t know i needed to know that im 16 trying to get into game dev
Stef "The Ruby Slayer" Mischook.
I have never used Ruby or had any contact with it but it seems its biggest achievement is to inspire Rails-like functionality in other languages. "We will steal all your good ideas and then you can #@$& off."
Ruby is shit!
This is exactly what I say all the time.
I worked on middle sized game studio/60 people for almost 3 years which produced 2 full price multi-platform titles a year. I also worked in the game industry as a freelancer (just a little bit).
.. and I don't take any game jobs anymore I actually try to stay away from game jobs because the pay is usually low, the quality of projects and clients is low and the competition is high plus you are really just a disposable rat in the machinery.
Making game in the small team might be fun if you can really personalize yourself with the creation and be proud of your work but as the career choice it usually sucks. Making game and playing games are two completely different things.
When you reach over 30, 35 you will start to think differently. Everything that you had your dream as a child another 100 million other children has as a dream as well and thus the competition will be insanely high, the industry will be saturated and pay might be not sustainable or downright zero. (like making music, paintings ...) Don't get me wrong there are some high paying jobs in the game industry if you get into big studio but the crunch times, disposability, overal chaos and scale of nonsenseness will grow you a ton of gray hair.
It's really best to split fun from the work .. if you want to have both you might have none.
If you don't mind me asking, What was your discipline? Were you an engineer?manger?
You are a trooper, and what you're saying is absolutely right.
But it's so much fun, much more than a best optimized bank app will ever give you. I took it up solely as a hobby and I don't even know if I ever manage any Steam releases. Even then I'll be shocked if more than five people would ever buy one. I have no illusion in this department.
Yet the feeling you get seeing your painstakingly engineered segments walking over the screen upon arrow key input, in alternating animations simulating leg movement... no payslip will ever grant you that.
if you make game alone is so much better than work with a team or company, simple game is key!
Game dev is a highly transferable career though. Studios crash or are closed all the time. They operate on only a few contracts at most, so most game devs are moving from job to job, and employers usually understand. I think they just look for portfolios and resumes.
Been dabbling with monogame lately, just as a side project. It's really fun. Based on what I know about the AAA gaming industry though, I don't think I want to be part of that.
If you’ve been around gaming community you would know about this whole problem.
How working in Activision is a toxic and not friendly environment or how Blizzards suddenly fired 800 employees and so on...
I would definitely think twice about becoming a game developer in this current industry.
There's plenty of non-blizzard studios, smaller studios that do great stuff and are fun to work at. Having said that - the friends I have that work at blizzard love it - so even then, it probably depends where in the larger studio system you work.
yea blizzard did lay off 800 but they didnt lay off many programmers because programmers who have been working for years at these companies are very valuable and hard to replace
@@zoeherriot wow this didn’t age well
@@kami_kami11 why? They still like working at Blizzard.
@@zoeherriot mY FrieNDs WoRK At bLIZzARd iT'S FUn
Had a hard time getting into programming with c++, even with Udemy UE4 courses. The Unity c# courses (especially the official unity c# one) went a lot smoother and I learned much more. If you're having trouble learning programming, start with c# and move on to c++ later. At least that's my plan and it's going O.K. for now.
Yes, it is easier to learn about memory leaks, OOP and basic patterns in C# instead of C++.
I can learn more C++ later after making a few games in C#
If you are a solo independent game developer than I recommend you C# and Unity
But if you are looking to work in a studio than learn C++ to get a higher chance of finding a game developer job because most studios specially the big ones uses C++
Yooo this question suits me perfectly ! Thanks for this video.
I think there is a few things here. Game Engine development is mostly done in C++ AFAIK. Game Scripting and Tools creation is dependant on what Engine you're using and can be just about any language. I've seen JS, Lua, Python, C#, C++. If you want to be a game programmer you will want to focus on finding an engine you like, such as Unity or Unreal. Learning how to make some basic games to create a portfolio, this will help you get your foot in the door with gaming companies and to start with you'll probably be looking at smaller studios. The language/languages each particular studio will use is dependant on the tools and engines they've already got in place. Use your knowledge from creating those basic games to get into whatever tools they have.
Don't focus so much on the "tool" but the solution as my boss always says. Coding languages are tools, yes you want to understand how to use them but familiarizing yourself with "game programming" and "game logic" and understanding game development is more important to work as a game programmer, than the tool you're using.
My advice is to pick an engine you think looks interesting. Do some youtube tutorials, read documentation, start learning how to write scripts, throw some game objects out there start making them interact, build some systems that are interesting to you. You'll get there, just be persistent and patient.
And use C++ and Unreal or another C++ engine if you can, but make sure it doesn't take a ton of configuration, which is possible thanks to Visual Studio 2022. You can start there and work towards using another IDE later.
C# and C++ are great languages and C# can also be used for web. It is also so similar to Java that one can easily make a switch between one and the other. And C++ is not as daunting as a lot of people claim it to be. Maybe it is easier to learn if you first start with higher level language like C# or Java. Programming games also requires a lot of maths and in that regard web development is easier on you.
I agree web dev requires less math but it makes up for it with all the other stuff you have to know just to do it according to employers. I looked at some Game dev jobs, the only requirement is know the language and have the math down. For web it is know the langauge plus tons of frameworks on our wish list ;). Web pays more in general.
@@computernerd8157 Exactly! Depends on what you prefer: maths or tons of frameworks. Sure web pays more, but you know, some persons are simply not cut for it. After some trial period I decided that web is not for me, so I'm taking my chances with games. I think that once you've made up your mind you need to stay on this track because to have any success either in games or in web you'll need to dedicate yourself fully to that field. There's a lot, a lot, a lot to learn and it isn't enough, you've got to be fluent and fast in it.
@@adamodimattia I agree with you. I personally want to do games to build my own brand. I will do web development to help a company or individual as a job. Honestly, I am not a big fan of working for companies because they want you to have a degree to do things that a degree is not necessary for and they look down on Associate Degree's which I have.
I am planning on getting starting a B.S Program next year. If I can get this degree, I might consider doing games instead of web. I want to use all that math I am going to be forced to learn. I don't understand why web developers have to be a computer scientist just to build a web site. It is like saying that I have to be a Rocket Scientist to build Cars.
Algorithm analysis is a must but all that other stuff is over kill as of today.
@@computernerd8157 Yes! That's completely ridiculous for me too that many of companies require a scientific degree for building websites. One will never use any of it in that kind of job, it is laughable, like you are supposed to be a space engineer to write js or set up a rest from pre-build modules :) If anyone has those degrees they ask for he or she is unlikely to get into web dev.
Why do you remind me of Octopus from Spider-Man
Game programming is living hell working ridiculous hours to deliver
His voice remember Better Call Saul. The subject is very important. Thank you very much for your time sharing us your opinion and experience.
Learning either will take you into other areas besides gaming industry using Unity or Unreal Engine. You can work for a business that does tutorials and they may use Unity or Unreal. Companies like Lockheed Martin look for Unreal Engine c++ developers for some of their projects. Engines like Unreal are not only used for gaming.
That’s cool
you give honest opinion man. Thanks! Comparison with plumbing and deadlines and losses were so apt.
Just couple quick questions here Stefan. Do you see a reason to learn old high level programming languages such as Cobol? I'm intrigued to learn little bit about them. Do you see a benefit of having a knowledge of them on job market? Do you have any expertise of High level programming languages?
i talked to my dad (ex IT with cobol) about it, there's a very low demand in industry for that, so in order to benefit anything with it, you need to be very fluent or confident and better than many programmers in industry but it wont be very long before it gets reduced even further.
Supposedly, all of those select few Cobalt, Fortran and assembly veterans hardly ever get any work and when they do, it's for pisspoor money. And they can't demand more since in the vast majority of cases, upgrading the hardware to work with C is simply a matter of money. If people doing it are relatively cheap to hire, then there's no reason to go through that trouble. But if the supply starts running dry, then they will simply bite the bullet and upgrade. Maybe this one programmer they hired to supervise it will get a slightly better contract than the rest. But he, too, will be essentially digging his own grave by limiting the demand for maintenence over the only language he's proficient in.
His balcony view is amazing!
Wow, if I were just listening to this I would think you were speaking in an auditorium on a panel or something. That's a truly impressive amount of reverb you got going on there.
If you compare the software development branch of a game development studio to the game development branch of said studio, you will find different qualities of life, if you look outside of the gameing industry theres more quality of life... if you are worried that software dev skills wont translate into gamedev skills then thats a wrong thought to have... best thing to do is, do it your own time... no need to worry and you can make some money ob the side, you wont HAVE to!
One man Indy Developers typically also need bespoke graphical/audio assets, which unlike business development can use an established UI API for the most part, with minimal assets
Remember the 1st TRON movie? It nicely depicted the money grubbing, opportunistic, idea leeching side of the 'business'.
So that answer is it doesn't matter... Very informative.
I jumped on the c# wagon and I l am still not sure I picked the right language. I started fine tuning my skills about 4 years ago and with self study and just trying out things I am no where near where I want to be. I know I should put what I know to use in Unity but the older I get the less attractive games are to me... anyone else feeling this?
Mainstream langages in the gaming industry are not the only one you'll be tested to apply for a job. Even if the company is C#/Unity based or Unreal/C++ based, you could be tested for basic C programming, pointers, bit rotation, maths...
Thank you for this great video! What is the music in the end? Pls help
C++ is not fun, period. However, every computer programmer should be able to read and write C++ code. Not necessarily use it for every single project - always use the best tool to get the job done - but... C++ forces you to learn a lot about the way in which computers work. It's tough. Low level is tough. BUT - once you get it, other languages will start making sense, because you will understand what is happening under the hood. So if you consider yourself to be a qualified computer programmer, please do learn C or C++. If you think C++ is fun, learn assembly.
Start from binary code.
No, build your own PC. And OS. And own language.
But there are more people who THINK they’re good coders than actual good coders.
I know Assembly, C++, and iOS Swift and now I’m considering learning C#. I swear, it never ends!
you are absolutely right our company closed after 2 years, programmers are not well good in game logic but they can program only so they cannot offer a good game structure and they closed for good!
Did he even compared C# with C++ ?
Nah
So clickbait
loved the music at the end
If you like gaming make one with friends and few others. Never work for big companies
Anyone else find backend server work more fun and satisfying way more than tediously trying to get game assets to behave correctly.
True. Being fullstack web dev is perhaps one of the best, "easiest" , and most-rewarding field of job today, right??
ukLz I think it is much better if you choose Front or Back (not both). Focus on 1 side and be expert at it
@@khanhchung4103 yeah, i see. I'd rather choose backend in my case.. because I find frontend a bit annoying.. i've got a friend who's progressing good there. So i thought of getting into back
@@ukLz666 Is it because you have to "make it look right", whereas in backend programming, you just have to make it work? I'm more of a front end developer. I'm slowly but surely learning backend.
Very good and sound Advice! Thanks Stefan
1:15 Great points
I only ask c# or c++ ? Just answer to that, say the pros and cons wtf
This video didn’t answer the title question :(( some comments does!
in terms of forming a career i believe Ben Franklin had it best. peruse a career not necessarily glamorous but will get you paid well (starting his own printing business) and save the fun jobs or side hustles you like when you made it or have free time (scientific study and inventing). if the fun job is your plan A or your only plan usually what happens is either you never make it because you are diluted by the competition or you have to hustle so hard to get notice and stressed to make ends meet your fun job becomes a chore.
Thanks for your thoughts stef
For anyone watching this Stefan doesn't really know anything about this field, while he's right learning to be a programmer makes u flexible all else fail. Don't be scared to be diligent a get into this field if you're serious.
It really makes me think if I really want to work in game industry
Yep. Think about the WORK, not the games!
Wordpress ain't bad at all. Some amazing plugins for it.
Unreal C++
Unity C#
Take your pick.
Also, go indie or be prepared to be treated like dogshyt.
Currently learning unity 3D scripting with C#
Crap Sharp
Death meme
Rip to you my friend.
Capt Lazerhawk why? What’s wrong with C sharp?
@@jaqueme6567 because he is the lazy guy who use only blueprints in unreal and he don't want to code
This guy sounds a lot like Bob Odenkirk .
I’m a 3D character artist and I honestly feel bad for coders so much work for so little money
Ruby is rebranding and now calling it’s language, Gem. Don’t know if this is true but that’s what I heard
Marketing has taught me a product instantly becomes better just by renaming it. It may not seem like it but the commercials say so, therefore it is. Especially when they add pretty colors.
@@dakoderii4221 This works well in the airliner business as well. If you have a type of plane which keeps crashing just call it something else ☺
Really .. is this true?
Stefan Mischook probably not, but I’ll pitch it to them anyway
@@StefanMischook After a bit of research it seems a gem is self-contained distribution package of Ruby code.
Going indie is better than working at fricking rockstar or Nintendo by far and the saddest part is that its true
does this guy ever just say "i don't know" ??
i mean why is he advising or commenting on an industry he knows nothing about, absolutly 0. even if he get's lucky or does some basic research before answering you are getting an answer about programming in c in the gaming indistry froma person whom number one is not a professional C coder or any lower compiled language for that matter. and number two he is not a gamer and he never wrote a game or worked in the gaming industry. this is like asking the guy at the hyundai dealer what you need to do to be ready for a career in nascar. wake up sheesh
It's well known that any profession that is perceived as fun will usually abuse their workers' passions unless they are lucky. That is very true for game development. Not every employer is the same but to find a company that is stable and gives you fair trade between money and your time is very difficult even for experts. Those experts are the ones that usually wind up getting those jobs. Since this video is about people wanting to start game development he is 100% correct in what he says, it's going to be grueling.
@@pt8292 i understand that and when he said that i agreed and he did a decent job answering the question under the circumstances of not knowing jack shit about the question. the issue is however he hand picked this question it isnt like you asked him in a bar and he tried to give an opinion or answer. this is a guy who makes a bunch of shallow videos about various topics most of which he isn't really qualified to answer. he has not been relevant as a developer in almost 20 years. none of his content beonyd htm tags or pre grid css is tutorial based so there is no evidence of his credentials since he came onto the scene originally. he was skilled at one time i am sure but the times passed him byu as a developer or industry insider. ppl asking him about employment when he has not worked for a company in 20 years again if he kept up on coding and web development he would be offering tutorials not answering questions ppl may or may not even be asking. to give some ciontext here i have had access to studioweb, his courses, and it is dated as fuck borther. it is actually pretty bad, and he only does the basic shit another kid does the php and projects. my main thing is he is a youtbuber at this point not a developer and not an educator. his business is not freelance coding either if it was he would be dangling all his credentials on youtube there are none in the last decade. he talks like ther eis tho. he chooses wording like "when i work on an enterprise freelance app in react..." but i am telling i bet he has done nothing of the sort since back in the day when he made killer sites. . to come fulll circle on my point here i usually let it slide and dont watch but i happen to be learning C atm and when i saw him try and hop in on theC and gaming clicks it pissed me off. he is not a developer, he never worked in a compiled language he acannot code in c and he never worked in the market the guy asked about. wouldn't you think if he is answering questions via email thisis one he maybe shoulda passed on? or are you gonna just shill for him?
Where is he wrong?
I've been working with software for the last 10 years and I have also been watching Stefan's videos for some time now. He knows what he's talking about and he knows his limitations. He always tells you when he knows something because he heard from a friend, or when he just doesn't know enough about the subject. Plus, when you have 20+ years of experience in the area, you know a lot of people. You worked at a lot of different places. You saw a lot of videos. You tried to start your own companies. You taught a lot of stuff to a lot of people. You had a lot of co-workers and colleagues, several of those old folks changed carreers and worked at other types of companies and told you the stories. So even if you never worked at that specific area, it is perfectly possible to know the reality of it.
Also, he never said "don't go there". He just spoke about some pros and cons.
Been working on learning game development for close to 2 years and haven't made a dime yet. Even once you think you've made it, you may want to look a little further ahead. And geometry and calculus aren't fun, but a big part of making games. Prepare to learn way more than you expected to with game dev'.
How are things now four years in?
@@orlandobrown8190 I'm a wizard, Harry.
If you’re gonna be a game dev just be an indie game dev, the Switch loves those games and they sell well there.
They say if you want to ruin a great hobby, do it for a living. I think he's probably right about it not being fun. Gaming is fun, making games as a programmer for a games company, probably not so much. I'd say making your OWN game would be very rewarding...so as comments here suggest - Indie
i saw almost all video of you , you love ruby and i called you the ruby man.
I feel sorry for your friend that works at EA...
EA or Ubisoft?
Code is Code!
Focus on being a good programmer writing efficient code in c# is more effective at getting you a job than writing bad c++ code but c++ when you are a good dev will make you write the most fastest code but its easy to write bad code. They could even teach you c++ it is easy learning it if you know c# it is syntactically different but work very similarly.
Hi, what camera do you use for recording this video ? thanks
Its Not *Fun* its *Rewarding* :)
game development isn't fun at all. it's hard and stressful. Thank for the feedback
Noooo.... It's fun.
Everything is hard and stressful.
Mr.Stef can you do a deep explanation on the concept about JWT token & OAuth authentication?
the pros and cons
please 😟😟😟
That would be interesting as I am currently working on a personal project with a REST service and am wondering how best to secure the POST and PUT parts.
Those are some pretty nice houses down there
How do sports games program dynamic halftime commentary?
Thank you for great video! What's is the music in the end? Pls help!
The music at the end is music I created for my YT videos.
@@StefanMischook Omg, that's very impressive! Thank you for the answer! How can i find it?
@@sashawhite6792 I get a lot of people asking for it but I never released it. Perhaps I should?
@@StefanMischook at least register it as your intellectual property, i think. Sounds awesome. 😃
Game development would suck as a job. Any job is stressful but I imagine GD would be the worst. It would be no better than working in a widget factory except you have to think more. SQL development and data analysis is an easier programming career and stick to game dev as a hobby...like I do. And between C++ and C# there's only one choice if you're learning from scratch. C#.
Great stuff
Made it 2 minutes in. All I wanted to j ow what the difference is and not the environment. Not trying to join a Corp, just wanna program on the side.
No offense but you didn’t answer the question. Do you prefer c# or c++ in game dev?
thanks 😍😍😍
Welcome!
are you from Toronto??
Montreal.
Most richest plumber in the world is Jonny Sins...😂
I have two questions. I'm self learning Java now and I have only vary basic knowledge of object oriented programing. I have chosen to make a project that could be used in real life, a Computer Repair Shop software for tracking tickets, devices, clients and other related things.
I have chosen to learn the language by using it while making a project.
Is this good or bad way to learn programing?
And the other thing, while I am learning the language I have also focused on learning good coding style so I don't pick up bad habits in code writing.
Am I focusing on code style prematurely, or is it good to learn that hand in hand with the language itself?
Coding style is subjective and mostly bs depending on which courses you take. It’s something you’ll make your own as time passes. What you really want to pick up is best practices for implementation, i.e. declaring variables for efficient memory usage, etc...
If you start as a gane developer but the crunch and whatever is too bad wouldnt you have skills needed to get a job at another company not in game dev?
so which language is exactly better? or i should use?
Depends on the job. I would lean C# for flexibility's sake in terms of the job market. But you can't go wrong with either one.
@@StefanMischook for Game actually, the video is about game but no answer
I saw Matrix anomaly at 6:05+
Brief philosophical video explore different career and how your job reflects to your paid thank you youtube for recommendations
OK, I will demonstrate my profound ignorance of game development by asking if games written in C# only target XBox?
And if you write a game in C++ do you just need to compile the exact same code for various platforms?
You can target any platform with c#. Same goes for c++.
Unity engine allows to target ALOT of platforms and is the heart of C# game developpement, Mono game also allows for various platforms.
@@keffbarn no u cant.
@@josefaschwanden1502 Tell me one platform you can't run any program written in c#.
@@keffbarn raw hardware.
What three languages would you say are the best for making an online game?
JavaScript is the best (and only?) language for creating games that run natively in the browser. p5.js is a nice graphics library for doing that. The processing language has similar functionality to p5, but it's a Java-like language. Alternatively, you could make games in Unity and C#, and create a webGL build for the browser, but keep in mind that it may not run quickly, especially with 3D assets.
Is it a good idea to learn C sharp as my first language?
Why not? If you know C# you could learn any other language as ease
What is the music at then of this video - its amazing! :)
It's mine! Thanks!
@@StefanMischook Is it available anywhere to stream. I really like it. :)
@@StefanMischook Love it!
Great well im going to quit programming 🤣😂
When you're a plasterer, trust me, being a plumber looks glamorous. I've just started at college, after 20 years in construction, to get away from dirty low paid work.
Who else is here for game development?
You telepath!! This video is just what I was looking for!!
Telepathy was my minor at university.
Techlead mentioned it’s “fun” working at Facebook
Hecc it I'm doing both
Oh and also be prepared to deal with a lot of toxic players on social media :)
Hi! Which city is that?Thanks
Montreal
Super video! I applauded for $2.00 👏
4:13 is just what i need to hear
Yeah and it’s not just making games play testing games is awful and several ex game testers say it ruined video games for them