WHO MAKES THE BADDEST LS TRUCK CAM? TRUCK NORRIS vs, CHOPACABRA vs TORKINATOR vs LIL CHOP HOT ROD?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.พ. 2023
- WHICH ONE MAKES MORE POWER? WHICH ONE MAKES MORE TORQUE? THE BRIAN TOOLEY RACING TRUCK NORRIS, THE TEXAS SPEED CHOPACABRA, THE CAM MOTION LIL CHP OR THE SUMMIT RACING TORKINATOR? WHO YOU GOT? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I RAN ALL FOUR CAMS ON AN ALL-ALUMINUM 5.3L L33 EQUIPPED WITH A FAST LSXR INTAKE, 102 MM THROTTLE BODY AND 1 3/4-INCH, LONG-TUBE HEADERS. HOW DO THE POWER CURVES COMPARE ON ALL FOUR CAMS? PLUS-HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM! WHAT WAS THE ISSUE I HAAD THAT MIGHT REQUIRE A RETEST?
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Rich is putting in the work for us so we don’t have to. We owe this man 2 subs. Thanks Richard!
I appreciate that
We owe him subscriptions and sub sandwichs 🥪
🏆💯🏆
Yo i live in ky too, plan on building my 4.8l yukon 2wd this year
Agreed
Love seeing TSP cams finally here.
This is why I absolutely love Richard!! Best job on the planet 🙌🏼
Pretty much confirms what I felt it would make, and makes my combo make sense now. Time for me to change cam and cylinder heads.
Great work as always Richard!
It's great to see the Lil Loper in this test. I have it to go in a LQ9 with similar suppting mods .
I just can't wait to get one of these motors in my garage before next winter. I will be studying Richard carefully. I need to be as confident. Thank goodness for you tube university.
Richard holdner thank you for all of the golden knowledge you provide. You sir are a motor legend.
Yup 💯💯💯💯
This is what I've been waiting for . Similar cams from different cam companies . Keep up the good work 👍
Impressive that a junkyard 5.3L can make nearly 450hp and well over 400lb-ft with just a good cam.
I like cam motions grinds... I run a titan 2 ls1 cam in my 5.3 and it has power everywhere and a monster up top. Mated with a 3200 stall in a 3500lb silverado it's a fun little street truck. The main thing I like about CM is that they don't slam the valves shut and not a lot of people run them.... everyone does a truck Norris or texas speed etc... never anything different. On the btr I have in my other truck valvetrain noise is a little louder but it runs great as well. Everyone has their preference, good thing there are a million choices.
Ive got a cam motion cam in my 5.7 hemi. Seems to run alittle quiter than the comp cam i had before as well
Hell yea iv bin waiting for this I got the chopacobra last year at ls fest for my truck and love it
Impressive work like usual
I have a C10 with a LM7, LQ4 cam, LS6 springs, air gap, 600 carb, 4.10 gears, it has no problem spinning the tires as is, I’m sure any of these cams would be a considerable improvement…
Looking forward to seeing some testing of the TSP Honey Badger cam. Only reason I haven't cammed my CTSV LSA setup is because I really want something with near stock idle quality and without the low rpm losses of the LS9 cam. I've now tested 2 Honey Badger setups in recent weeks and with an idle speed of 750 rpm or so they sound almost stock. TSP claims about 50-60 hp on a bolt-ons LSA setup at 13 psi and similar gains on an NA setup too. Both the LSA setups I tested were pushing 750-800 whp on ported stock blowers on E85 which is pretty nice while retaining stock idle quality. If the cam gets the Holdener seal of approval in a head to head test I may just buy one.
I like them all. Thank you Richard.
Yep. High oil pressure is high drag .
I absolutely love all the comparo vids, I'd really like to see an ls with a carb type intake and a shootout with aces, jegs, fitech, holly and whatever other tbi you can get your hands on. There's some of us want the LS power but that carb like look in our classic cars
He did that in the second half of the ls intake shootout. They all suck compared to even the factory efi intakes
Thanks Rich VERY VERY VERY good video.
You can also spin the cam to push the lifters up and use 5/16 (NOT 1/4) wooden or aluminum dowels in the 2 holes that the cam retainer plate cover to keep the lifters from falling down into the pan.
I use 1/4" dowels, and no issues...
I tried a 5/16 dowel before, and had trouble getting them in in some blocks... 🤷🏻
What a great sound. Good ol LS rumble
Richard is there a way to get a good audio of the idle sounds when you redo the test? I know exhaust makes a big difference in overall sound but I'm wondering what the cams sound like at idle to make a comparison.
Puting the finishing touches on the car and getting ready for some racing.
It'd be interesting to see the vacuum pulled down with each cam. I'd probably go with the Summit cam just based off of the specs. It looks like it would have the smoothest idle.
Good idea. Should be easy to log, as well.
Who wants a smooth idle? Just stay stock.
@@cedricwilson2055 Why trade away efficiency (more vacuum, smoother idle) if you don't get more power in return. Makes no sense to me. If you want a choppy cam, then choose a big cam. These are not big cams. You do you......
If you want smoother idle and power Texas speed stage 2 212/218 but losses no torque down low but still has a lope
@@utahcountypicazospage5412 maybe he should have tested that cam too🤷
This is perfect timing. I was just looking into a cam for my turbo 5.3l I think I originally went too big with my 226/230 .600/.575 113+4 cam. Might step down to a stage 1 since it's my DD
I really like the 212/218 550/550 112 from Texasspeed I made 571hp 519tq at 9 psi procharged with it in my ls1 it sounds stock and still gets 23mpg if I’m not on it
@@utahcountypicazospage5412 that's some pretty solid fuel milage. What torque converter? I was looking at the Tick Stage 2 for 4.8/5.3. it's 219/223 .617/.595 114+3. I've got cnc ported 862 heads and a Fast 92mm intake/tb. Circle D 2800-3000 stall
Thanks for your videos I’ma build me a 5.3 with some of the parts you recommended for the 500hp
I was hoping to hear which one sounded the best? I figured they would all be pretty equal in power.
Gotta luv the guys that hate on LS engines because they are so simple - powerful - reliable - plentiful - and low cost ! Nuff said ! 😻
low cost?
Kewl test I have that summit cam. In a lq4 in 94 s10 terminator x max running everything
Interesting how the nearly. 050 lift difference on the first two made little to no difference. Focus on the duration and split for your targeted rpm range?
Thanks Richard!
Thank you for the intense info you put out for us motor heads it’s second to none ! I’m building a 5.3 for a 1989 Suburban 2500 TH400 . I live at 7500’ elevation , what would be my best choice for a cam that makes torque ? I’m wanting drivability, Holley terminator harness computer stock lower end LM3 . Thank You so much ❤
BTR Truck Norris
I wasn't expecting the power and torque numbers to be so close. I'm guessing that they should still be pretty close even once the oil pressure is resolved
They won't change much at all with the oil pressure restored.
Perfect timing. Trying to choose between the btr and tsp. Now to the video. Lol
Looks like there all gonna be about the same lol within a few numbers here or there
We need a coil pack comparison . truck vs car vs LS3 ,msd .....etc
As many cams as you install I would think you would use a split timing cover.
I like the chopacabra for the idle but to know I’m not sacrificing power for something so vane makes me feel better😂
Plus it made the power with a fraction of the oil pressure the norris had. Bet it’d gain a few ponies
@@loweredyote8416 Can't wait for the retest.
@@bluecollarhotrods9781 me neither. Have you redynod your truck yet eith new heads?
@@loweredyote8416 I have not. The shop I used for dyno and tuning closed and the owner moved out of state. I need to get HP Tuners or something so I can lock the converter. And, I need to re baseline on another dyno so the numbers won't be skewed. All that had to happen before I swap on the clean 706 casting heads with a real valve job vs. the junkyard 862s with just a "razor blade rebuild." After that, it's party time - Advanced Induction 799s and a custom grind 224/232 cam. Going to try and break 400rwhp with unported heads and without a HUGE cam.
@@bluecollarhotrods9781 I’m hoping to make similar power on my lq9 with ported/polished/milled 799s, chopacabra, longtubes, and 3200 stall single clutch billet converter. Eventually I’ll do a ls3 manifold or fast102.
Surprised how close the outputs of some of the cams when the specs were different. Very interesting to me.
Hey Richard love your videos, I install dozens of these truck cams a year, everybody wants these cams and I see similar results on the chassis dyno. What I hate about the truck norris or tsp cam is that they advertise "no stall required" but they end up with "no balls" till 25/2600. They are awsome with a 26-2800 stall. So 2 things I'd love to see, 1: a test advancing the cam 2 or 4 degrees 2: test with a set of "variable duration lifters". Howards cams advertises up to 10 degrees of duration lost below 3k rpm, more intake vacuum, more low speed torque. Could either of these bring out some bottom end? Just a video I'd love to see.
these definitely require converters on a 4.8l, less so (but much better if used) on a 5.3l and not really on a 6.0l-the Rhodes lifters would be a good test
Especially on a big camshaft if those lifters really increases vacuum.I like truck cams for cars with boost I used tsp stage 2 truck cam on 112 lsa my 99 z28 made 350hp 350tq NA and it is so smooth no one knows its cammed lol
No stall required in 1962 Falcon based Ranchero that weighs 2900 lbs with driver.....and 4.11 gears....
In the end out of all the cams run the cheapest or company you like best.
I have that summit torque cam in a flat top 6.0 with 243 heads and 1-7/8 headers in a crew cab 2500hd 4x4 and I really like it.
awesome, did you keep stock trans and converter? more power everywhere i assume?
@@robtdougherty Yes, it had a 4l80e in it with a stock converter.
What dyno #"s did it make?
@@cityduke505 never put it on a dyno.
How about the melling mtc-7 and 8 cams? I know the 7 is on the mild side but haven’t seems much info on it.
You should take a sound clip of each cam at idle since they all claim some sort of choppy idle.
Got the btr stage 1 but was thinking about switching to truck Norris but might just get chopacabra instead because of the price
I've put the Summit 8709R1 in my stroked LQ4. Can't say how it is yet, engine is not completed yet
Enjoyed! Thanks
Would’ve really liked to see a GPI cam, such as their SS3
time sert will fix those threads really nicely
Why don’t you do a comparison to all the summit pro cams?
So 11hp and 8 lb ft more than posted on the BTR site. I think it’s safe to say that’s the Fast intake over the TBSS. I like seeing that the manufacturer isn’t inflating numbers.
DIFFERENT DYNOS-DIFFERENT MOTORS-CAN'T COMPARE
@@richardholdener1727 I was just making the point, that being that close and knowing the Fast makes more power shows that BTR isn’t inflating their numbers for increased sales
Would like to see how the Scoggin Dicky Ls6 plus compare to these as well
Cammotion should send you a little chopper cam as well. Have one in my OBS with the 5.3. Made 318 rwhp on 87, random trash tune, clutch fan through a not happy 3 speed auto with a loose converter
We did send him a Little Chopper cam, but it would have been unfair in this test because Little Chopper has more duration and is quite a bit more powerful than these.
@@stevenbalusik5835 I meant in general, for sure not this test for the reasons you stated. Good to know tho. I’m curious what he does with it.
Can you chuck in the lunati 219/223 cam next time too?
On the retest we need to see all 4 on the same chart lol please and can you find a cam checker to get exact specs lol rumors
Richard, When you're saying that the high oil pressure was pushing out the retainer plate, Could that let the lobes move fore/aft, damaging a lifter or wiping a lobe eventually?
Also, what about tapping the oil holes in the block and running braided line in between?
cutting the retainer 9-3 below those two holes I'm not sure how much room there would be between the cam gear and the braided line(?) Would 1/4"/AN-4 be enough?
cam movement was not an issue-just a very small oil (pressure) leak out 1 side
Just run the plate....
Test the BFD Chop Monster cam please 😁
Thanks for all your work. I recently check a truck norris cam on a ls in the shop. I keep comming up with 109 LSA and not the 107.5 LSA on the cam card. For a truck cam I would like to see what a single pattern cam of around 219 @ .050 and .525 - .550 lift with a true 107 - 108 LSA would do on the LS truck engine. The single pattern cams and tight LSA always did well for me on short track racing years ago.
You will lose power n/a power with the single pattern, test have already been done.
Norris cam is 216/227 and 109 LSA
You almost always gain more power with more exhaust duration. Like having headers vs manifolds.
This is not the first time I hear about truck Norris specs being wrong maybe Richard is the only one that got 108 lsa lol
Depends on the timing set used...
I've seen many cheaper timing sets be off by .5 - 1 degree many times. I only buy name brand quality sets today.
If anyone is wondering about the Truck Norris cam specs Delta Cam put it on their cam doctor and showed the result on their channel.
I think alot of people will go out and buy a big cam and be disappointed by not matching the combo. Rich needs to make that point. I mean a stock 1800 rpm stall converter with a cam made for a 3400 stall converter will suck.
Bv
All of the new test used to be different colors, what happened to the software?
I have the summit cam and it does ok. Should have gone a little bigger though since I did a 4in stroke. fairly smooth idle I suppose because of the extra stroke. I will say though considering the oil pressure vs test results, looks like the truck norris will ba a little better then the summit one by a few hp but not much. I don't see 20psi dropping more then 5-6 hp.
cubic inches really suck up chop. a 585 elgin in a 4.8 is a total fender shaker. In a 6.2 it sounds like a mini van at idle. Bet the thing still runs good though. 6.0 bore or 5.3?
@@travishall3446 was 5.3 so now a 5.8
That's a small cam. I just bought the stage 1 ghost cam and it's got a lot more duration but a wider lobe separation should be good with my 5.3 and turbo.
@@horsefly1020 yeah that will work fine with boost for a vehicle not towing anything. Mine was a n/a towing specific build. Makes 300lb ft of TQ at 2k RPM at the rear tire so it's perfect for what I needed. It doesn't pull past 5200 well though, needs more duration for that with the 4in stroke. I may just try some 799 ported heads and see if that works well to make it pull to 6k. Would be nice to have it pull longer with that turd 4l60e trans. Adding bigger cam may just wreck that trans lol
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair get a turbo for towing if you want torque. Plenty of people tow with a turbo LS just need good intercooler.
What Cam sounds the best with a single s475 turbo setup?
Just curious 🤔 when are you planning on doing another comparison between the Chopacabra and the TN cam? That's what im waiting on before I buy one for my O4' Yukon. Thanks man you're doing a kick-ass job. And I appreciate all you're hard work.
Same
Go Texas speed you won’t regret it with less oil pressure still did better lol
Just port over the cams from the xe sbc line and get a great custom cam assuming you can pick the correct one 4 your combo.
Bloodviking
Comp cams just came out with a new line of truck cams too. Looking pretty aggressive for a supposed stock convertor friendly can
Where did u find the new line of cams from them? Are you talking about the hv cams from them?
@@billblount7854 yessir the hv. From what I can tell they came out a few months ago. Not seeing anything online for them besides the announcement video
@loweredyote8416 Yeah I looked at those they do seem to have bigger lift/duration than all these. Also i noticed the same looking at the specs for the tick tow master stage 2 cam which I'm Interested in as well.
They all have a special purpose!
It seems around 108 LSA is the sweet spot for LS engines. It also seems lift doesn't matter too much for LS engines. At what power level and/ or displacement is valve lift more of a consideration?
there is no single lsa that is best for all motors
I've had 2 cams from cammotion fail. Lobes falling apart?
I would love to see a test on the BFD chop monster cam there’s nothing out there also do you think lower oil pressure hurt the power output?
lower oil pressure likely helped the power output
Texas speed cams can go bad if you open them and leave them out for months before installing. If you need to open them up make sure to refrigerate the cam after opening
I thought that only happened to converters
You did the Truck Norris vs the NSR cam on the 5.3 with no noticeable change. You also did the same grind with different LSA. I’d love to see an engine run with the same grind other than lift to see where the plateau is, if any.
so that really depends on how your cylinder heads flow. If your cylinder head cannot take advantage of higher lift by allowing for greater CFM then additional lift would not net any gains at all. That is why when heads are done and flow tested they are flow tested at varying amounts of valve lift.
Can we all agree that this man should now slide into Betty White’s recently vacated spot as the nations most valued treasure and should be protected at all costs 😂
Betty White cannot be replaced-she was amazing
Have you done the madmax cam shaft from tsp? Been trying to see numbers on that cam
no sir
Any downside to daily driving a cammed out 6.2 truck?
Hell yeah 🤘🏻
5:18 On the Gen 4 motors, you can stick a 1/4" diameter wooden dowel down the block, on both sides, in those holes under the cam plate once you've rotated the cam and pushed all the lifters up in the trays. The dowel will then be sitting under the lifters and will prevent them from falling into the oil pan if they work loose because of worn out trays. You may have to rotate the cam a touch to get the dowels all the way in. I.I.RC., a 16" long dowel will reach all the way back to the rear lifters, and you'll have enough room to get them in with the engine in the vehicle, with the rad out.
I do this on every single one, just in case. Call me paranoid, but I like to ensure that I won't ever have to be pulling the oil pan for a cam change.
we use 5/16
I don't think many realize just how much goes into making a can test video. Your amazing and thank you. Btw how would the ss2 can compare to these cams?
PLEASE SEE THE SS2 VS TN VIDEO-IT'S UP
Hi Richard, I appreciate your videos! Just curious, have you ever had any issues with the stock harmonic balancer used in your videos? Thanks!
WE HAVE BROKEN STOCK TRUCK DAMPERS ON THE DYNO
@@richardholdener1727 great to know, thank you!
Looked like you did a helicoil which works but if it's my stuff and I know about it I just tap it to a bigger size if I can get away with it like I had a striped out exhaust manifold bolt and did that taped it to something SAE so it's a different looking bolt not that hard to notice but u get there are some times when you would not want to do that
not much room for that on the top bolt-helicol is fine but I also got time serts just in case
That helicoil repair is stronger than the bolt in this case. If your exhaust manifold is going into aluminum the helicoil repair would be stronger than the original aluminum bolt hole. Plus that way you keep the standard bolt sizes and not one odd bolt
Which camshaft has the best name??
I like it a lot
I have new ls7 lifters and new allegedly oem trays but the lifters don’t hold in the trays when I turn the engine over like you did here. Is this common or do I have more problems I’m unaware of? Thanks
new trays should hold lifters up indefinitely
Ether used trays or dod trays
Right on
about time you get into who makes the better cam !!!
are you new to the channel?
Richard pulling a little ASMR on us.
Do you use a stall converter when making these cam videos? Would you make a video explaining what size cam makes need for what size stall? I just bought a junkyard 5.3l lm7 and am currently building it for my 01 firebird…I’m scared to get anything over a stage 2 cam because I don’t want to have a stall converter in a (daily driver) can u also explain what a stall converter does? To my knowledge say you have a 2,200 stall, it would make the converter spin instaid of ur trans/axel up until 2,200 rpm? Is that correct?
we use an engine dyno-there is no transmission or converter hooked up
@@richardholdener1727 love your videos man, they’ve helped me a lot. I’ve watched soooo many hours of your videos in the last week haha.
Hey I’m looking ones for my gmc canyon v6/3.6 were I can get it ! Or what you recommend me my friend! Thanks
not sure who makes 3.6l cams
Did it five times, know wonder the bolts were striped, lol.
Hi Richard im in the process of buying a set of dart pro 1 ls1 15 degree 225cc heads.
Run with the truck norris camshaft, and the ls6 standard intake.
Is this to much head vs the 241s
My goal is tourqe with some added hp
Thank-you
Aaron.
Or the same result.
Im still learning.
they are not too big-should work well
Awesome Thank-you i watch alot of your videos and have to go hunting those 5.7 ls videos but in general they guide in the similar fashion.
Would you recommend changing the exhaust standard manifolds to some headers just with whats on car now it sounds good and nice deep no crackling sound like the ls engine is common for.
I doubt you reply but what cam is the best for chop amd power for 6.0 for frist generation ctsv
I reply to every comment
If your going for sound with mild lift imo iw the summit. Its so choppy and just sounds nasty. Ive heard in person the chopacabra amd the btr st3 truck cam.
What stall would be the recommended stall on a 5.3 chopacabra with long tubes/ dailey driver, maybe a even a torqestorm sc later
YOU CAN USE STOCK, BUT I WOULD GO MORE (2500 )
That's perfect you are the God of the cams appreciate it so much man
Am building a 5.3 I what can would you recommend to get the most power I want it to sound good to I’ll be putting it on a 2004 extended can Silverado
need more data
Still rocking the old 36 tooth Craftsman?!?
Definitely needs a redo
getting ready to order a cam just not sure which one between chopacabra or truck norris, stock converter and a daily driver, looking for power all around. leaning towards the truck norris as of right now. also if i ever have to drop my transmission for any reason i will put in a better torque converter i mean you’re already there why not
there is no bad choice there
Save yourself 70 bucks and grab the summit cam.
@@NavyNate123 The only problem with the Summit cam is the really aggressive lobe (.600" lift). The .553" lift cams can use a $95 LS3 replacement springs whereas the Summit cam requires a more expensive valve springs. So, you end up spending the same amount of money in the end.
Customer who have used the type of cams in this test typically don't like how they drive with a stock torque converter. I recommend a 2600-2800 stall with these cams.
As soon as I saw the word chopachabra I know I had to watch.
I feel like the bottleneck has to be displacement with results so similar. None of the other components should be maxed out at this power level.
Can’t be, Turbos and superchargers won’t make power
@Cedric Wilson sure they will. 5.3 litres can never be more that 5.3 we just increase the efficiency of airflow into it and actually getting 5.3 litres of air movement would be 100% volumetric efficiency. All this is true at 14.7psi or 1 atmosphere. At 14.7 pounds boost you are now up to 2 atmospheres and forcing the engine to 200%VE. Consuming the air of a 10.6 liter. Doesn't matter the size or power level, adding boost will be a % increase over what it can make with only atmospheric pressure.
why 80lb injectors ? whats it actually using at wot ? are 40lb not big enough for this setup ?? im going with chopacabra on an lm7 and id appreciate your input boss 💯
THE BIGGER INJECTORS HURT NOTHING, WE ALSO RUN BOOST ON THIS MOTOR
I just found this channel and I heard your name which made me curious. My dad knew a guy once named Richard holder but everyone called him Dick. I think that is a common nickname for Richard. Maybe he is your family tree somewhere. Just found it odd bc we would laugh about the name Dick Holder. Informative video, thanks
Edit.... Stupid me. Didn't realize the name of the channel is your name... Anyways my mistake.