part of the reason there tho was also to try to plead for access to software like revit or 2020 or other software to do first party benchmarks instead of linking to amd. speaking to first hand experience:)
A rundown of The different types of professional software that most people don't have access to would make for an interesting video. I may never touch Enterprise level stuff but it'd be cool to to know what kind of benchmarking/test software they use
@@night_h4nter it is one of those things that you don't need it until you REALLY do. If you don't have one and don't see the need for one then all good, but with my profession I am regularly using 2-3 PCs at the same time.
@@night_h4nter In my particular case. Some Radiologists work for more than 1 company as needed from home...all of which require them to use each company's particular workstation/PC to get into their network to work. Having a KVM that works for Barco monitors would mean they wouldn't need another set of $10k+ monitors plus an extra desk/workspace for each company they work for.
The same shoddy cable situation happened when HDMI 2.1 first launched with the RTX 30 series. I remember when it first launched I was trying to hunt down a 3 m HDMI 2.1 cable only to find there was just none in the market. There were plenty that said "HDMI 2.1" on the tin. For 2 m it was usually fine but as soon as you go above that most just failed. It was only then that I realised for HDMI 2.1 48 Gbps that official certification badge was worth its salt. The HDMI 2.1 certification system has its own little ecosystem (QR code which you scan with an official app to verify that the badge is authentic). With a required bandwidth of 80 gbps the only way for a consumer to have confidence in their purchase of a functioning cable is to buy a certified cable.
Precisely. Only cables that can run long lengths at the high bandwidth of HDMI 2.1 are active fiber optic cables that are certified. They are pricey but they are worth it. I’ve used it to run a HDMI 2.1 splitter from my living room to my bedroom so I can play my game console in both rooms. The cable (50ft) runs well at 4k120hz without any signal loss.
The MiniDP-to-DP adapters I got with a Radeon Pro W5700 and an NVIDIA Don't-Call-It-A-Quadro T1000 are rather crap, sometimes causing signal quality issues even without a KVM switch in the mix.
Why not switch to optical connections? If you can get 800Gbps Ethernet, why not utilise it for future video connection. Latency is going to be so low that even the best gamers out there will not complain
VESA has already certified a couple of DP2.1 UHBR20 (80GBit/s) cables. But with shy above 3ft they are too short for real world applications where PC towers are not standing behind a display. The marking does exist.
Running two dp2.1 cables, real world, with no complaints in the short length. Main pc is down and to the left of my monitor sitting on the fireplace with my desk next to said fireplace. And then my mini-pc (ser7) which connects to a monitor for when im in bed (im crippled). Neither setups have i complained needing more length
@@dennisaleander5175 Insertion loss and reflections as well as impedance mismatch, cross talk etc. might cause troubles when connecting two short cables.
Those f...king pins 20 on DP - my first encounter with them was when I got my shiny 34" ultrawide monitor in 2018 and suddenly after powering down my PC, LEDs on the motherboard weren't turning off. I tried all the BIOS options possible, even with everything off they still light up. One day I had to turn off my monitor from power and lo and behold, LEDs on the motherboard turned off! After investigating the subject more, I've found out, that my cable probably had pin 20 connected, which made monitor send power to my GPU, which then passed it to the mobo and light up the LEDs. After quick and dirty disassembly of the connector and cutting the pin 20 connection, my PC was able to go to power off without rainbow vomit. Once again - f... pins 20.
Wendell sounds like he's about to become a monster cable salesman 😂😂😂 But for real, Wendell is doing the Lord's work with his KVMs. Currently saving up for a 3 PC version!
If you are using a pro cinema camera (RED, Arri, Blackmagic) and a true 10 bit Studio Monitor (RGB 30bit) then this is the card for you. The high colour gamut gives you more details in the shadows and highlights.
Thank you Wendell for opening my eyes to the fact that a cable can run properly at a higher bandwidth and fail at a lower one, and explaining why that may be. This is actually great insight and I will adapt my testing accordingly.
I spent years with blinking monitors plaguing systems and share Wendell's frustrations - it's worth pointing out how inconsistent hardware specification and 'last mile' experiences for consumers can vary *wildly*. Thanks for this video.
doesn't help that at this levels even things like " is your monitor and desktop connected to the same or separate power strip" can matter to the point of not booting in the worst cases.
This just reminds me of all the black screen issues people were having with radeon gpus. Some were due to drivers, but many people were having issues with poor quality displayport cables. Sadly, even the cables provided with some monitors were not good. My Asus Vg248 had tons of display link errors causing black screens with the provided cable, I bought a club3d certified cable, and all my issues went away.
As someone who buys cables in bulk for a datacenter, I'd love, and would pay extra, for cables that certified they met specific standards. We have bought so many cables that failed to work.
At first I was disappointed why they use the mini DP port for the full bandwidth. All that background information really gives you another perspective.
I would LOVE to see those "optical" display port cables tested with this tester thingy. A lot of VR people swear by them, blurbuster forum people as well!
I guess, but why AMD GPUs over Nvidia, putting aside Nvidia's vastly overinflated prices and lesser Linux support? Specifically, what do AMD's enterprise solutions offer over Nvidia's? I know at least in the past during the 10 series and below, Nvidia Quadros were very often, compared to their equivalent AMD counterparts, just plain better. Again, not counting price or Linux compatibility.
The cable market is absolutely terrible, and I wish someone trustworthy would step in and start making/selling cables with full technical sheets/certifications. I'm trying to adapt USB-c to displayport 1.2 for a small project and it feels like nothing works that doesn't get blackouts every couple minutes.
I've been using an Alogic ULCDP01-SGR for 2-3yrs now without issue, it's bidirectional and actively powered, lets me plug another pc into the usbc port on my monitor and do 1440p170 with VRR.
Besides any standards updates that would help, I think we can all agree that Amazon should be held liable for all the absolute garbage falsely rated cables they sell.
I haven't been able to convince multiple vendors to fix hard coded maintenance passwords, at least one of which was at the center of a nationwide ransomware attack.
I didnt know my display could be affected by interference at all. I was having flickering problems with my display and thought my GPU was failing since it would only do so under load. I had my PC's power chord running adjacent to my display cables due to space restrictions, and because of this video, I rearranged my setup. No more flickering under load!
I recently spent 20 minutes on Amazon finding a somewhat decent looking USB C charging cable with a detachable magnetic connector. Even for a relatively niche product there is so much "spam", nearly identical products with different nonsensical company names.
@@Marc.Google ZIIXII ZX-NB-001. But I don't know if it's any good yet, I've only had it for a week or so. It does have a rather bright green LED light on the USB C connector, which manages to light up a quarter of my room at night, I'm gonna put stickers over it if I decide to keep it.
3:45 for a while I actually worked with those 3D tooth milling machines. Most of their scanners are actually running on fairly old hardware, it's impressive what they're able to accomplish with it.
Hardware Unboxed / Monitors Unboxed recently did a demo of this card with the proper cables. It's great to see their findings on the display stream compression and cable issues corroborated.
Happy for the DisplayPort refresher. Not sure what USB/HDMI/display port all have to be nightmare inducing. Whoever names the PlayStations really needs become a consultant…
Fiberoptic HDMI/DP cables FTW! Much more resistant to EM noise since the only vectors for it are the plugs with the decoders. Plus super long cable lengths and thin, flexible cables.
Out of curiosity, since you hinted at some nuance, what exactly does "visually lossless" mean? The fact they specify visually implies it isn't truely lossless (MP3 is famously lossy but could be considered "audibly lossless" at high bitrates). How do they standardise it? Is it some technical measure of pixel values or do they get a bunch of people to see if they can tell the difference in a blind test? How does that translate to eg those radiology workstations you mentioned as a use case compared to typical office applications or 3D games and such?
I think there was a study about that subject. Basically it boils down to how the human eye works. Perception of color saturation and brightness combined with pixel arrangement and response. Especially in higher resolutions.
@@bosstowndynamics5488 They got a bunch of people to look at side by sides and if less than some number could tell the difference that's visually lossless. So yeah, some people can tell especially in test patterns but the vast majority of people can't tell.
@@bosstowndynamics5488 as @MrHamof stated, there are some people that can spot the difference, but vast majority can't (outside of test patterns). I think if at least 70% of people can't spot the difference then it's considered lossless. Not sure about the number though...
DSC is a standard by VESA, and you cannot tweak parameters as much as you can with MP3. The algorithm was tweaked with whatever study they did. Gains with DSC are low (around 2x, can be lower). Gains can be multiplied with other techniques like chroma subsampling (instead of the usual PC centric 4:4:4 RGB, you use 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 YCbCr).
Barco employee here. Barco displays are a little unusual because they also need a USB cable to communicate with the internal calibration hardware. We do sell some displays with built in KVM, but I know buying new medical grade displays isn't going to be the cheapest option.
the hdcp is bugged on input 2 when in dual input mode of 2324 model, it works if hdcp is not present basically. we have a specific model for that setup to overcome that otherwise our kvms work great with barco stuff :)
The worst thing about shopping for cables is that even with this knowledge, you have no idea what kind of quality cables you're buying, and if it's actually good until it fails. I really wish there's just a store or brand I can just go to and buy without worrying about if it's going to work or not.
Yea, I had to discover this on a Sunday. Good god I do not like the DP standard naming schema. It was a pain going through Amazon item descriptions. Most if not all of the items I found, I had to review through the reviews lol.
Wendel... just a random comment, acceleration for decode for H.264, H.265 4:2:2 10-bit (not just 4:2:0 10-bit or 4:2:0 8-bit) is important for most working videographers these days; maybe for future reviews or product you could check if that is supported and mention it. That would be very helpful to me / us ;-)
The cable name nonsense needs more attention! When I got my A4000 for a good deal second hand I thought: "let's buy the ultimate best future proof DP cable to go with it!" I ended up needing to sift to the generic garbage like you showed until I thought I found some good stuff in the 2.1 '16K' 2 meter cables from Ugreen. Welp, after experiencing daily random black screens I thought my gpu was bad. Turns out the cable just doesn't work right! Buying a 'future proof' 2.1 cable for a card with DP 1.4a connectors turns out to be useless :v
I got a crown that was scanned and 3d printed it's super cool. I was super fast and the machine even scanned the color of my teeth to perfectly color match the crown.
Thank you, as always. Thinking about a threadripper 24 core combination with either the w7700 or 7800. Linux doing fast video editing using open source software such as blender. 4k 60 fps 4:3 format, 8 bit depth from a lumix G9. Small business user product photos and short demonstrations. The rest is still TBD.
Why do we even need all these standards if they're all so confusing and misleading? What's even the point, VESA? Just create separate standards with clear and proper rules and guidelines for manufacturers to follow. I understand 99% of people will never realize there's even any difference, but it's the 1% of time that we get burned that it ends up mattering. And again, if we're even bothering with standards, they should be set correctly. As if USB, HDMI, VRR, HDR etc. stuff wasn't confusing enough and so easy for manufacturers to mislead buyers, now we have to deal with DisplayPort being up there as well. I'm sure I'd never notice the difference between DSC on and off, but I simply want the peace of mind knowing that I got the full bandwidth and quality at my disposal especially if I'm paying so much for a GPU and a monitor - both, which should absolutely have the highest-end specs in that regard. Anyway, that's my ramble, it's not gonna change anything.
Single standard means stagnation, so we better not go that way. I do feel your pain in having so many technologies that just remembering those make your head explode. Just from HDMI, I do remember DeepColour, Consumer Electronics Comms, Audio Return Channel, HDMI Ethernet Channel, Enhanced Audio Return Channel, Fixed Rate Links, Variable Refresh Rate, Auto Low Latency Mode, Quick Frame Transport, PCM, DSD and so on and on. On top of that, more audio codecs. The number of different ways to represent HDR images is also confusing.
I have one of those new 3d printed or cnc made teeth. Last crown i had to get they did a scan instead of the molding compound. It's doing well so far. Took a lot less fitment grinding.
I would love to have a reason to need one of those cards. Their workstation cards have been good since the ATI days.. hevk their consumer GPUs have been pretty good too imo.
If a standard applies to two different things, it isn't a standard. I really hate what is happening to all these non-standards like USB, displayport, HDMI, [insert any cable standard in history here] ... They all suck. And I hate it. /rant-over Good video! xD
You just are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Standards groups like these are to keep the companies in them on top, form some layer of defense against any applicable governments that may have requirements for certain things (or to keep it without) and charge a premium for their goods. Why does the consumer ever think it's about them?
Cool! I got an implant over 30 years ago (first in my area). They are so much better now. Mine is huge with a screw three times the size of those used today. Still there since '92.
In regards to the problems with full sized DP2.1, do you have any experience with the Gigabyte FO32U2P? It has both full and mini ports rated for UHBR 20, I'm curious if that full-sized one is intrinsically borked or perhaps they figured out a solution? I've been eyeing 32" 4K OLEDs and I can hardly wait to stop dealing with the black screens when alt-tabbing on an Nvidia GPU with DSC.
I’m running 5120x1440@120hz on my gaming rig with a 6800XT GPU and it’s great. My wife also uses the office for her office PC, the trouble I had getting a properly cheap non gaming gpu to drive it was a bit of a nightmare.
I'm getting into true cad modeling with plasticity+cinema 4d I wanna see this gpu chew through some cad modeling i do 3d print designing and game making can you please try it out in those software on linux (lkalilinux or mint os but running a windows vm) because some software is not fully supported in linux
Hey Wendell? . . . can you do a video like this explaining where Micro HDMI fits into all of this? Is Micro HDMI _at Least_ as good as standard HDMI? Is it better/worse?
Cable names for DP exist and have existed for a long time. They have NEVER included the DP version, because that would be stupid. That is where the DP8K, DP40, DP54, DP80 names come from. Labels and Logos for officially certified DP cables. (HBR3, UHBR10, UHBR13.5, UHBR20 speeds resprectively).
Do you think that DP2.1 will have a home on USB-C connectors as the USB4 spec converges PCIe, USB, DP, and Thunderbolt protocol over the same connector? The cable is looking to support 80Gbps so I assume the SI is good enough for it
I am having flashbacks from my adoption of 2160p when HDMI 2.0 GPUs were not available. I had to find the only TV providing a Displayport 1.2 connector to be able to render 2160p 60Hz. It was a Panasonic AX800 model in 2015. It was the same stupid story for 2160p 120Hz with HDMI 2.1 with 6000 AMD and 3000 Nvidia series GPUs. I had to wait 1 year to use it.
@@xhivo97 I have 10m fibre-optic DP 1.4 cables from FIBBR (everprotech). I too have yet to find any DP 2.1 80 Gbps fibre-optic cables, though Everprotech have 40 Gbps DP 2.0 cables up to 50m.
You can write a script and test cables and cross reference. Package errors yadda yadda :) Powershell Core or other platform independent technology preferrably open source scripts.
It's not a "lie" that new devices are DP 2.1 -- Spec versions get superseded. It just means it conforms to the latest spec. Doesn’t mean it has all the bells and whistles it provides. 10Gbps is a valid DisplayPort link rate called DP40. It does have some benefits beyond the 8.1Gbps rate, and some cables do work at 10Gbps that don't at 8.1Gbps because of signaling improvements.
So the next question: if we had a Radeon 7900 series card with an mDP or Type-C port (that is supposedly good enough for 80Gbps Thunderbolt 5), would it be able to do DP2.1@80Gbps?
The garbage cable problem has finally popped his head in again. It was a pain to find displayport cables that could run 8k displays at 60fps yet on the box claims to be DP 1.4 certified.
At 1:36 you said 4880 stream processors but it's 4480 stream processors.
Unsubbed
@@FEARmeify Boycott Wendell!
Unforgivable... lol
@@pf100andahalf whos that girl?
Feels like LTT's downfall all over. Sad. /jk
I love that like 80% of this video was Wendell rambling about display cables and not about the gpu
part of the reason there tho was also to try to plead for access to software like revit or 2020 or other software to do first party benchmarks instead of linking to amd. speaking to first hand experience:)
A rundown of The different types of professional software that most people don't have access to would make for an interesting video.
I may never touch Enterprise level stuff but it'd be cool to to know what kind of benchmarking/test software they use
Came for the gpu, stayed form the ramble 🍻
I believe they have trials and/or student versions. @@Level1Techs
I mean, that is the part I'm interested in 🎉😅
Radiologist here. Would like a kvm that actually worked with Barco monitors
I gotchu fam, already, pretty much email me Wendell at level1techs.com
God Barco monitors are so picky...
could you please eli5 why do you guys need kvms? i don't seem to get it, and quick googling only gave a bunch of marketing nonsense
@@night_h4nter it is one of those things that you don't need it until you REALLY do. If you don't have one and don't see the need for one then all good, but with my profession I am regularly using 2-3 PCs at the same time.
@@night_h4nter In my particular case. Some Radiologists work for more than 1 company as needed from home...all of which require them to use each company's particular workstation/PC to get into their network to work. Having a KVM that works for Barco monitors would mean they wouldn't need another set of $10k+ monitors plus an extra desk/workspace for each company they work for.
The same shoddy cable situation happened when HDMI 2.1 first launched with the RTX 30 series. I remember when it first launched I was trying to hunt down a 3 m HDMI 2.1 cable only to find there was just none in the market. There were plenty that said "HDMI 2.1" on the tin. For 2 m it was usually fine but as soon as you go above that most just failed.
It was only then that I realised for HDMI 2.1 48 Gbps that official certification badge was worth its salt.
The HDMI 2.1 certification system has its own little ecosystem (QR code which you scan with an official app to verify that the badge is authentic). With a required bandwidth of 80 gbps the only way for a consumer to have confidence in their purchase of a functioning cable is to buy a certified cable.
Precisely. Only cables that can run long lengths at the high bandwidth of HDMI 2.1 are active fiber optic cables that are certified. They are pricey but they are worth it. I’ve used it to run a HDMI 2.1 splitter from my living room to my bedroom so I can play my game console in both rooms. The cable (50ft) runs well at 4k120hz without any signal loss.
Part of the reason Thunderbolt cables are so pricy. Strict certification requirements.
You should mention your KVMs in videos more often. I had forgotten all about it.
And make them available in the EU retail stores.
They happen to be the only videos of his that I watch
The MiniDP-to-DP adapters I got with a Radeon Pro W5700 and an NVIDIA Don't-Call-It-A-Quadro T1000 are rather crap, sometimes causing signal quality issues even without a KVM switch in the mix.
YES. SAME with Ada sff. mini dp adapters are truly a cursed item right now. id carry them on the store had I found a reputable vendor
@@Level1Techs which can be taken as "there are no reputable vendors." yeah? lol
Why not switch to optical connections? If you can get 800Gbps Ethernet, why not utilise it for future video connection.
Latency is going to be so low that even the best gamers out there will not complain
preach, amen
Honestly, I would suspect that price plays a large part in that.
I would like to think someone is working on optical computers.
I've heard optical actually has slightly worse latency than good 'ol copper.
@@johndowson1852 generally, for sfp and its descendants based networking active optical cables somehow have lower latency than direct copper cables.
VESA has already certified a couple of DP2.1 UHBR20 (80GBit/s) cables. But with shy above 3ft they are too short for real world applications where PC towers are not standing behind a display. The marking does exist.
I think they revised the standard to include cables up to like 1 or 1.2 meters.
@@Nicholas_Steel 1.2 meters is about 4 feet, so not much more
Why not daisy chain the DP2.1 cables?
Running two dp2.1 cables, real world, with no complaints in the short length. Main pc is down and to the left of my monitor sitting on the fireplace with my desk next to said fireplace. And then my mini-pc (ser7) which connects to a monitor for when im in bed (im crippled). Neither setups have i complained needing more length
@@dennisaleander5175 Insertion loss and reflections as well as impedance mismatch, cross talk etc. might cause troubles when connecting two short cables.
Those f...king pins 20 on DP - my first encounter with them was when I got my shiny 34" ultrawide monitor in 2018 and suddenly after powering down my PC, LEDs on the motherboard weren't turning off. I tried all the BIOS options possible, even with everything off they still light up. One day I had to turn off my monitor from power and lo and behold, LEDs on the motherboard turned off! After investigating the subject more, I've found out, that my cable probably had pin 20 connected, which made monitor send power to my GPU, which then passed it to the mobo and light up the LEDs.
After quick and dirty disassembly of the connector and cutting the pin 20 connection, my PC was able to go to power off without rainbow vomit.
Once again - f... pins 20.
Wendell sounds like he's about to become a monster cable salesman 😂😂😂 But for real, Wendell is doing the Lord's work with his KVMs. Currently saving up for a 3 PC version!
If you are using a pro cinema camera (RED, Arri, Blackmagic) and a true 10 bit Studio Monitor (RGB 30bit) then this is the card for you. The high colour gamut gives you more details in the shadows and highlights.
Thank you Wendell for opening my eyes to the fact that a cable can run properly at a higher bandwidth and fail at a lower one, and explaining why that may be. This is actually great insight and I will adapt my testing accordingly.
The amount of information that I am learning from this video is staggering you sir are a Jedi and I thank you kindly
I spent years with blinking monitors plaguing systems and share Wendell's frustrations - it's worth pointing out how inconsistent hardware specification and 'last mile' experiences for consumers can vary *wildly*. Thanks for this video.
doesn't help that at this levels even things like " is your monitor and desktop connected to the same or separate power strip" can matter to the point of not booting in the worst cases.
This just reminds me of all the black screen issues people were having with radeon gpus. Some were due to drivers, but many people were having issues with poor quality displayport cables. Sadly, even the cables provided with some monitors were not good. My Asus Vg248 had tons of display link errors causing black screens with the provided cable, I bought a club3d certified cable, and all my issues went away.
leaving the extra intro was funny :D
As someone who buys cables in bulk for a datacenter, I'd love, and would pay extra, for cables that certified they met specific standards. We have bought so many cables that failed to work.
Try Blue Jean Cables.
At first I was disappointed why they use the mini DP port for the full bandwidth. All that background information really gives you another perspective.
the W6800 before this having 6x MiniDP (and no other connectors) seemed a better idea than the full size conenctors.
I would LOVE to see those "optical" display port cables tested with this tester thingy. A lot of VR people swear by them, blurbuster forum people as well!
Wendell should become an actor lol :D Loved the bonus intro's at the end haha
I've been running AMD GPUs for company-internal text generation models for a while now. People love it. AMD certainly are a bit underrated.
How is the performance? How many token/s do you get?
I guess, but why AMD GPUs over Nvidia, putting aside Nvidia's vastly overinflated prices and lesser Linux support? Specifically, what do AMD's enterprise solutions offer over Nvidia's? I know at least in the past during the 10 series and below, Nvidia Quadros were very often, compared to their equivalent AMD counterparts, just plain better. Again, not counting price or Linux compatibility.
@@klaudialustig3259 dont have performance metrics in my head right now, but ollama with models that fit into VRAM is super fast.
The cable market is absolutely terrible, and I wish someone trustworthy would step in and start making/selling cables with full technical sheets/certifications.
I'm trying to adapt USB-c to displayport 1.2 for a small project and it feels like nothing works that doesn't get blackouts every couple minutes.
I've been using an Alogic ULCDP01-SGR for 2-3yrs now without issue, it's bidirectional and actively powered, lets me plug another pc into the usbc port on my monitor and do 1440p170 with VRR.
Half certain, the standards sites have official lists of certified cables.
Try Blue Jean Cables.
The problem is that consumers are idiots who only support onehunglow scam brands.
Besides any standards updates that would help, I think we can all agree that Amazon should be held liable for all the absolute garbage falsely rated cables they sell.
If you are talking to radiology suppliers can you tell Philips to move off java from 2001 please, oh and fix jog4j in CRIS .
I haven't been able to convince multiple vendors to fix hard coded maintenance passwords, at least one of which was at the center of a nationwide ransomware attack.
@@Level1Techs
Sounds about right for IT investment 😂😂
I can pass this along to my Phillips repair tech.
@@Level1Techswhich vendors?
The alternative intros are so awesome to see! potential for unlisted videos linked from the L1 forums in the future??
God bless
I didnt know my display could be affected by interference at all. I was having flickering problems with my display and thought my GPU was failing since it would only do so under load. I had my PC's power chord running adjacent to my display cables due to space restrictions, and because of this video, I rearranged my setup. No more flickering under load!
I recently spent 20 minutes on Amazon finding a somewhat decent looking USB C charging cable with a detachable magnetic connector. Even for a relatively niche product there is so much "spam", nearly identical products with different nonsensical company names.
Which one did you end up with?
@@Marc.Google ZIIXII ZX-NB-001. But I don't know if it's any good yet, I've only had it for a week or so. It does have a rather bright green LED light on the USB C connector, which manages to light up a quarter of my room at night, I'm gonna put stickers over it if I decide to keep it.
3:45 for a while I actually worked with those 3D tooth milling machines. Most of their scanners are actually running on fairly old hardware, it's impressive what they're able to accomplish with it.
14:20 - that is when we need the gang from the seven seas to come and hook Wendell up.
Hardware Unboxed / Monitors Unboxed recently did a demo of this card with the proper cables. It's great to see their findings on the display stream compression and cable issues corroborated.
So, by specs (apart for the RAM capacity), it sits between the RX7800XT and the RX7900GRE. It's interesting. Thank you for the video!
I have one of those 3D milled teeth. The whole process took 30 minutes
Chef Wendell serves up some *Meat & Potatoes.* 👨🏼🍳🍖🥔
Ill happily listen to you talk about the problems with displayport 2.1.
I would love a cable brand breakdown at some point.
Maybe Level 1 Techs would make it an annual or semi-annual event?
"Non-trash cable show" should be a semi-annual event indeed
Regarding cable naming / naming scheme for DisplayPort: YES, please. And also for HDMI and USB, please.
Happy for the DisplayPort refresher. Not sure what USB/HDMI/display port all have to be nightmare inducing. Whoever names the PlayStations really needs become a consultant…
Fiberoptic HDMI/DP cables FTW! Much more resistant to EM noise since the only vectors for it are the plugs with the decoders. Plus super long cable lengths and thin, flexible cables.
Out of curiosity, since you hinted at some nuance, what exactly does "visually lossless" mean? The fact they specify visually implies it isn't truely lossless (MP3 is famously lossy but could be considered "audibly lossless" at high bitrates). How do they standardise it? Is it some technical measure of pixel values or do they get a bunch of people to see if they can tell the difference in a blind test? How does that translate to eg those radiology workstations you mentioned as a use case compared to typical office applications or 3D games and such?
I think there was a study about that subject. Basically it boils down to how the human eye works. Perception of color saturation and brightness combined with pixel arrangement and response. Especially in higher resolutions.
@@Mervinion So based on averages then? (ie for people with unusually good sight there would in fact be a perceivable difference)
@@bosstowndynamics5488 They got a bunch of people to look at side by sides and if less than some number could tell the difference that's visually lossless. So yeah, some people can tell especially in test patterns but the vast majority of people can't tell.
@@bosstowndynamics5488 as @MrHamof stated, there are some people that can spot the difference, but vast majority can't (outside of test patterns). I think if at least 70% of people can't spot the difference then it's considered lossless. Not sure about the number though...
DSC is a standard by VESA, and you cannot tweak parameters as much as you can with MP3. The algorithm was tweaked with whatever study they did. Gains with DSC are low (around 2x, can be lower). Gains can be multiplied with other techniques like chroma subsampling (instead of the usual PC centric 4:4:4 RGB, you use 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 YCbCr).
Barco employee here. Barco displays are a little unusual because they also need a USB cable to communicate with the internal calibration hardware. We do sell some displays with built in KVM, but I know buying new medical grade displays isn't going to be the cheapest option.
the hdcp is bugged on input 2 when in dual input mode of 2324 model, it works if hdcp is not present basically. we have a specific model for that setup to overcome that otherwise our kvms work great with barco stuff :)
love your stuff Wendel
The worst thing about shopping for cables is that even with this knowledge, you have no idea what kind of quality cables you're buying, and if it's actually good until it fails.
I really wish there's just a store or brand I can just go to and buy without worrying about if it's going to work or not.
Try Blue Jean Cables, I’ve had good luck with them in the past.
Yea, I had to discover this on a Sunday. Good god I do not like the DP standard naming schema. It was a pain going through Amazon item descriptions. Most if not all of the items I found, I had to review through the reviews lol.
Thank goodness. Some useful DisplayPort information.
Wendel... just a random comment, acceleration for decode for H.264, H.265 4:2:2 10-bit (not just 4:2:0 10-bit or 4:2:0 8-bit) is important for most working videographers these days; maybe for future reviews or product you could check if that is supported and mention it. That would be very helpful to me / us ;-)
The cable name nonsense needs more attention!
When I got my A4000 for a good deal second hand I thought: "let's buy the ultimate best future proof DP cable to go with it!"
I ended up needing to sift to the generic garbage like you showed until I thought I found some good stuff in the 2.1 '16K' 2 meter cables from Ugreen.
Welp, after experiencing daily random black screens I thought my gpu was bad. Turns out the cable just doesn't work right!
Buying a 'future proof' 2.1 cable for a card with DP 1.4a connectors turns out to be useless :v
Wendell is so funny. "Which is why we have our total phase signal integrity tester! Don't worry we'll get there!" I love this so much hahaha
You witnessed a man with the deepest love and compassion for display signal integrity.
I got a crown that was scanned and 3d printed it's super cool. I was super fast and the machine even scanned the color of my teeth to perfectly color match the crown.
Thank you, as always. Thinking about a threadripper 24 core combination with either the w7700 or 7800. Linux doing fast video editing using open source software such as blender. 4k 60 fps 4:3 format, 8 bit depth from a lumix G9. Small business user product photos and short demonstrations. The rest is still TBD.
Why do we even need all these standards if they're all so confusing and misleading? What's even the point, VESA? Just create separate standards with clear and proper rules and guidelines for manufacturers to follow. I understand 99% of people will never realize there's even any difference, but it's the 1% of time that we get burned that it ends up mattering. And again, if we're even bothering with standards, they should be set correctly. As if USB, HDMI, VRR, HDR etc. stuff wasn't confusing enough and so easy for manufacturers to mislead buyers, now we have to deal with DisplayPort being up there as well. I'm sure I'd never notice the difference between DSC on and off, but I simply want the peace of mind knowing that I got the full bandwidth and quality at my disposal especially if I'm paying so much for a GPU and a monitor - both, which should absolutely have the highest-end specs in that regard. Anyway, that's my ramble, it's not gonna change anything.
Single standard means stagnation, so we better not go that way. I do feel your pain in having so many technologies that just remembering those make your head explode. Just from HDMI, I do remember DeepColour, Consumer Electronics Comms, Audio Return Channel, HDMI Ethernet Channel, Enhanced Audio Return Channel, Fixed Rate Links, Variable Refresh Rate, Auto Low Latency Mode, Quick Frame Transport, PCM, DSD and so on and on. On top of that, more audio codecs. The number of different ways to represent HDR images is also confusing.
Picked up one of these a little bit ago. Tore through my PyTorch workloads
I have one of those new 3d printed or cnc made teeth. Last crown i had to get they did a scan instead of the molding compound. It's doing well so far. Took a lot less fitment grinding.
I would love to have a reason to need one of those cards. Their workstation cards have been good since the ATI days.. hevk their consumer GPUs have been pretty good too imo.
If a standard applies to two different things, it isn't a standard. I really hate what is happening to all these non-standards like USB, displayport, HDMI, [insert any cable standard in history here] ... They all suck. And I hate it.
/rant-over
Good video! xD
You just are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Standards groups like these are to keep the companies in them on top, form some layer of defense against any applicable governments that may have requirements for certain things (or to keep it without) and charge a premium for their goods. Why does the consumer ever think it's about them?
They also 3d print stuff used for dental implant surgeries, don't ask me how I know but it's pretty cool stuff.
Cool! I got an implant over 30 years ago (first in my area). They are so much better now. Mine is huge with a screw three times the size of those used today. Still there since '92.
Why not? Are you one of the infamous tooth fairy shadow government? Don't ask me how I know...ffs
Also just the way this videos cut can I say....mmm production value
I'm actual planing on getting 2 of these for work and to have a local LLM server that can run 70b, or multiple 13 and 7b models running.
USB4 cables at least have their bandwidth capability printed on their connectors. I thought DP was moving completely to USB-C.
We need more eye charts. Explain them and what they show people!
please say that The Wendell is making a video recommending wich cables are proper tier. prehaps sell those on the store....
In regards to the problems with full sized DP2.1, do you have any experience with the Gigabyte FO32U2P? It has both full and mini ports rated for UHBR 20, I'm curious if that full-sized one is intrinsically borked or perhaps they figured out a solution? I've been eyeing 32" 4K OLEDs and I can hardly wait to stop dealing with the black screens when alt-tabbing on an Nvidia GPU with DSC.
I’m running 5120x1440@120hz on my gaming rig with a 6800XT GPU and it’s great. My wife also uses the office for her office PC, the trouble I had getting a properly cheap non gaming gpu to drive it was a bit of a nightmare.
Wow. Mr Entepeneur here going after the medical field. Well done.
I'm getting into true cad modeling with plasticity+cinema 4d I wanna see this gpu chew through some cad modeling i do 3d print designing and game making can you please try it out in those software on linux (lkalilinux or mint os but running a windows vm) because some software is not fully supported in linux
I had no clue that Wendell took such great care of his nails until I saw him presenting that 1080.
Hey Wendell? . . . can you do a video like this explaining where Micro HDMI fits into all of this? Is Micro HDMI _at Least_ as good as standard HDMI? Is it better/worse?
Blue Jeans Cable ftw, if you want actual tested cables.
Cable names for DP exist and have existed for a long time. They have NEVER included the DP version, because that would be stupid. That is where the DP8K, DP40, DP54, DP80 names come from. Labels and Logos for officially certified DP cables. (HBR3, UHBR10, UHBR13.5, UHBR20 speeds resprectively).
Is the HDMI experience finally coming to DisplayPort?
I noticed your clap at the end had a slight delay, could be my playback though, I traveled in and out of cell service.
Would be cool to see you dive into local AI. Not sure if it's the best card for it specifically but could be fun to explore
Want one for audio computer, yes that’s right, some audio app developers are waking up to the potential of using GPU computer for audio applications!
alternative intros are the new outro
Do you think that DP2.1 will have a home on USB-C connectors as the USB4 spec converges PCIe, USB, DP, and Thunderbolt protocol over the same connector? The cable is looking to support 80Gbps so I assume the SI is good enough for it
I work alot with inventor 3d. I would like to see the advantages using this card? Do you do any test using inventor?
I am having flashbacks from my adoption of 2160p when HDMI 2.0 GPUs were not available. I had to find the only TV providing a Displayport 1.2 connector to be able to render 2160p 60Hz. It was a Panasonic AX800 model in 2015. It was the same stupid story for 2160p 120Hz with HDMI 2.1 with 6000 AMD and 3000 Nvidia series GPUs. I had to wait 1 year to use it.
It's always fun when someone knows my Unreal Editor VRAM woes.
Just gonna say it. I think the Unreal Engine 5 is overrated and bloated in general.
Did you check out any fibre-optic cables?
Actually I can only find optical HDMI on AliExpress.
Not sure if there are DP 2.1 optical cables.
@@xhivo97 I have 10m fibre-optic DP 1.4 cables from FIBBR (everprotech). I too have yet to find any DP 2.1 80 Gbps fibre-optic cables, though Everprotech have 40 Gbps DP 2.0 cables up to 50m.
Well, you need to start a cable company wendell.
Language Models would be nice some ML tests
Standards committees making swaths of their standards "Optional" is only detrimental for both the label amd the consumer
I'm not a filthy pirate, I shower daily thank you very much!
You can write a script and test cables and cross reference. Package errors yadda yadda :) Powershell Core or other platform independent technology preferrably open source scripts.
It's not a "lie" that new devices are DP 2.1 -- Spec versions get superseded. It just means it conforms to the latest spec. Doesn’t mean it has all the bells and whistles it provides.
10Gbps is a valid DisplayPort link rate called DP40. It does have some benefits beyond the 8.1Gbps rate, and some cables do work at 10Gbps that don't at 8.1Gbps because of signaling improvements.
1:43 - is it 4 or or 3? Because I see only 3 and 1 mini... or am I missing something...?
4 total of which 3are regular and one is mini
@ 4:12 it appears that the Mini Display Port connector is missing a support screw. Or am I seeing things...
saw that too
1:42 You mean 3x full-size DP and 1x mini DP right?
Wendell showing the cable standards committees how easy it would be to save a lot of human suffering is the hero we need right now🙌
So the next question: if we had a Radeon 7900 series card with an mDP or Type-C port (that is supposedly good enough for 80Gbps Thunderbolt 5), would it be able to do DP2.1@80Gbps?
I stopped using cables with copper for my displaus a long time ago,becuase of my work i can get easy to fiber optic display cables.
I tried using a KVM with an Amazon type fiber-optic DP-DP cable. The KVM hated it. Guess I know why. LOL
0:26 best moment in the video😂
m8 you have really lost some weight! Looking great :D
Does the pro support 6 monitors using MST or is it needed like the RX7800 XT?
A DisplayPort 2.0 KVM would be interesting
Wendell, what keyboard do you have on the desk there?
What is a good quality cable brand, if the letter salad ones are trash? also could the level1kvm work like a switchbox for gaming consoles?
The garbage cable problem has finally popped his head in again. It was a pain to find displayport cables that could run 8k displays at 60fps yet on the box claims to be DP 1.4 certified.