I traveled back in time, twice, so am my own daddy and mommy, respectively, future science y'all, dont think about it. Also i totally came up with this and have never read a book. No need to google anything.
8:51 Pa Kent's response was Maybe . Because he genuinely doesn't know the answer to the question . Life has moral dilemmas as well which do not have clear cut answers .
The old, "The one who points out racism is the real racist." It's not abusive fathers (or parents) that are the problem, but us talking about it. Out of sight, out of mind.
Sway the Messingwer! A Republican trait since 1968.... Richard Nixon has SO much to answer for, but his "Southern Strategy" of luring the Bigoted Religious Right Dixiecrats into the Republican Party has got to be a real low even for him.
I am loving your video essays! Fun fact: Watching Thanos in Infinity War is actually what motivated me to finally leave my abusive mother. The fact that abusers can genuinely believe they love their victim and think they are doing what's best for them is not something that is discussed often.
I think Maggie is super-amazing! (But it hurts real bad in my heart area.) I'm gonna start using "save martha" as a salutation! I've tried to start a trend where......when someone BURPS....you say "AMEN!"..... and when someone farts you say "AMEN!" cuz those sounds are evil escaping your body I'm told. "God Bless You" each time a person burps or farts would work too. (OUCH: I love how maggie MOCKS RELIGION so much! ARGH! Girl of my dreams!!!!!! OW OW OW!!)
I am a father and a high school teacher but also a big Marvel head. One of my students tried to convince me of the whole Thanos was right idea. And I spent a good part of my Cafeteria supervision explaining to her why I disagreed. One of her contentions was that Thanos loved Gamora and my response was “I have a daughter. You are not going to convince me that Thanos loved Gamora.”
In fact that whole sequence left me aching for a reversal. I wanted Thanos to have failed the test. After all, why do we trust Red Skull all of a sudden? And why have a test of conviction to get the soul stone when a test of compassion makes more sense (at least in my head). But I can’t think of how such a reversal might be possible now for the simple reason that he didn’t fail. He got the stone. Toxic message be damned.
It stopped that line of conversation and we moved on to my contention that population growth is a constant and how killing half of everyone is a temporary fix and that he would have to keep doing it every 50 years without other changes.
See, I'm a dad too, and what that scene - along with all of the scenes involving Thanos and Gamora - did for me was convince me of how strongly, and wrongly, Thanos feels on that issue. Have you ever known someone who correctly identifies a problem, but then becomes completely fixated on one solution? That's Thanos. Thanos correctly identified a problem on his home planet. But when he was ridiculed for what he'd found, he solidified his potential solution as the only one possible. Which is a shame, because his solution was super dumb. As you, and many others, have pointed out. Identifying a problem correctly is not the same as saying your potential solution is correct. But it can be very easy to become fixated on your own solution if people refuse to even accept you were right with identifying the problem, because at that point it becomes easy to dismiss the thoughts of the people who refused to listen to you at all. We can accept and agree Thanos was wrong and evil, while also accepting that he truly thought he was doing the right thing. He decided he had to "do the hard thing" to "be the hero". It is this monomania that makes him a tragic figure, even as he's a despicable one, because he's not willing to consider another path, or the truth of his actions. If we accept that he can be both evil and well meaning, then his scenes with Gamora take on a different light. He is being terrible to her, but in his own screwed up way, he is convinced that's he's doing what's best for her. He's trying to make her into someone just like him - someone who's willing to do whatever it takes. Someone willing to accept "hard answers", but in a person like him, it's so easy to convince themselves that anything "easy" is "wrong". He was trying to be a good dad by imprinting on her everything he holds to be true. And while I don't think "sculpting my child to be just like me" is the correct way to handle parenting, it's a depressingly common one. Does all this make his behavior acceptable? No, I'd say it makes it worse. Personally, I always find evil behavior done in the name of good to be extra-terrible. But it provides a coherent and plausible cause of his behavior towards his film, and explains his emotional reaction at killing her. His favored daughter, who he'd hand-crafted to be as much like him as possible - as much like the most perfect being in the galaxy, that is - had to be sacrificed. But he did it anyway, because it was either that or - in his eyes - sacrifice the entire galaxy. And as much as you or I love our daughters, if you put a button in front of us and say "you can save a 100 trillion lives, or save your daughter", that's a hard choice. A choice we're never likely to see, and a choice Thanoes DOESN'T REALLY HAVE, but thinks he has. And he, as he has built his entire world view around, made the "hard" choice. He chooses sacrifice each and every time, because he's decided that makes an action real. And that's what makes him scary. Because the whole time he beats you, or kills half your family, he's not angry. He's doing it out of love. And it turns out love doesn't have to be just kittens and rainbows. Sometimes it can be used to justify the worst behavior of all. And I think deciding this isn't "real" love is reductive and dangerous. Just because it's often an excuse doesn't make that always be the case, and a flat rejection of what an enemy says is a dangerous thing to do. I think Infinity War makes a strong case that Thanos legitimately loves. Which is why his madness is so tragic, and scary. Someone merely dedicated to power for its own sake isn't nearly as worrying as someone who's fighting for a cause. For another case of "I have love, but faith my action is correct", please see the story of Abraham and Isaac. ...sorry for the wall there.
This is a pretty weird trend. Though I'd argue that the MCU at least understands that its bad dads are bad dads. When Tony loses it in Civil War, he specifically says it's because Bucky killed his mom, who we see in the flashback he was much closer to than his cold, possibly emotionally abusive dad. Then Gamorra straight up says to Thanos what you said: "This isn't love." And Lindsay Ellis has a great video on how GotG2 doesn't apologize for Yondu's abusiveness, but is instead about how a child's relationship with an abusive parent can be extremely complicated. Though at the same time, Odin is presented as the good and wise daddy to the end when he was a really bad dad to all three of his kids. I look forward to part 2, which I hope will be about Good Dads.
Yeah, MCU is like... ALMOST effective at portraying dads/parents in an interesting way. I think there's some merit to the "he killed my mom" Tony Stark thing, but still, the characterization of the mom isn't really there. I think in that one flashback/recreation scene, Tony even mentions that that interaction never actually happened. So it's like one more step removed from reality. And Lindsay's video was great!
If the theme of Avengers 3 and 4 is balance then Avengers 4 will have to be about something that reverses the negativity of Infinity War. Personally I'm thinking it might be about moms.... Captain Marvel's supposed to be the key character to save everyone. I dunno if she's a mother though.... so maybe that doesn't apply.
Gotg 2 agnoledges that th complex relationship of having a father who is a slightly abusive(but caring) space pirate or a supervillain. The side of your father that reflects negativ on you snd makes you question youself. Like in real lie. Plus i think bucky under mindcontrol killed tonys mum too.
Although Gamora does say 'This isn't love', the movie still treats it like it *is* (the sappy music whilst murdering her and validating it with the soul stone) which completely undermines that point. I think the MCU's handling of dads is... inconsistent at best, unfortunately, but there is at least some nuance (on the whole). And Linday's video is fucking awesome.
Madeline Van Dongen - Yeah, the fact that he's rewarded with the Soul Stone is an issue. I could argue that because it's vaguely defined movie magic, it didn't actually require real love, just that Thanos truly believe what he felt was love, but I can't really substantiate that reading with anything in the movie. I'm hoping that Avengers 4 reveals that this is the key to defeating Thanos and undoing everything, that the Soul Stone is corrupted in some way because he didn't truly love her. But since I've considered that, it probably won't happen.
Did the universe REALLY confirm that Thanos actually loved Gamora? Or did it just confirm that he THINKS he loves her? I took the qualifier for the "sacrifice" as just someone that meant a lot to them, not specifically genuinely loved.
I have a feeling that in the next Avengers movie, we might learn that the situation was rigged or whatever. But obviously that's speculation or retconning, so it's not really valid to argue. I'm HOPING they retcon it, but as far as we can tell, from what the movie tells/shows us, the universe is saying he *DOES* love her. And to a kid sitting in a theater, that's all they'll get from it. Waiting a year to find out "oh, just kidding; he doesn't love her" is... meh. In fact, if they HAD included a few lines about how messed up that scene is, it would've been great! It would've complicated the narrative in a really cool way. But alas. Also, I really did like the movie, so it was even more of a bummer. Whereas Man of Steel is like... lol.
Well, there IS that line BY Gamora of her saying "this isn't love", and the fact that she definitely will be coming back gives us a chance for her to tell him off (whether inside the stone or outside) about how messed up his version of "love" is, which won't be as much of a RETcon as it just...con. But you're right that kids are impressionable, so I hope the next movie will clarify this.
Maggie Mae Fish Loving someone does mean you act in their best interest all the time. Thanos loved Gamora but The MAD Titan cant tell the difference between love and abuse. His problem is lack of empathy. I never saw Thanos as a power trip for "daddies" but a warning against toxicity. Ive known many with children with severe learning difficulties who have suffered parental abuse and have seen many cases of parents who clearly love their children but act abusivily because they want their children to be "normal" and don't understand their needs. Thanos, I would argue, is in a simular situation.
"But I think your missing a point that 'Love' by your sane standard is not the same that abusive and psychopath people use." I compared Thanos to The Operative from Serenity. They are both willing to do horrible things, because they truly believe they doing the right thing. Thanos abused his kids, because he loved them and really thought he was doing the right thing. That doesn't justify his abuse, but it makes him a whole lot scarier.
I think Infinity War purposely skewed things; Thanos, from the narrative's perspective, is the protagonist, even though his actions, motivations, and philosophy are all pretty capital "E" evil when you really look at them. So, the structure, and even the occurrences like the scene with the soul stone, may have birthed this whole "Thanos was right" meme, but the intent seems to me to be about exposing the negativity and banal "evil" of patriarchy and general hubris. Thanos's greatest sin, to me, is believing himself incapable of being wrong. He literally ravages the galaxy for probably centuries because he couldn't reexamine an idea that involves killing half of everyone. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the Snyder-verse; the best writers focus on the difficulties in moral choices when approaching people with power, and the responsibility of being powerful, where Snyder was... not.
I agree. The funny thing, about Thanos, is that he isn't originally abusive towards Gamora in the comics. Her family was killed by the Magus, and she would have died too, but THANOS saved her. Then of course he trained her as a killer and all that, but the most important point remains different from the movie: at the core of their relationship there isn't an act of violence. There is an act of (not genuine, but still) compassion. And I think keeping this element in the movie would have changed it all. Thanos brutally deprives all his children of their families before "adopting" them, but Gamora is the only one he took in with an act of true goodness, of true compassion. And THAT'S why he loves her (and is loved in return by her, deep down). This would have brought the sacrifice on Vormir on a whole upper level of heartbreaking. Thanos would have realized his madness, at that last moment he would have seen the truth, that Gamora's love is worth more than a million Infinity Stones... but he would have killed her anyway, because he'd also have realized that he is too far gone to turn back now. I don't know about the Russos, but THIS is what I would call an "empathetic villain". A man that chooses evil while knowing full well what good is. And yet he can't come back anymore. Darth Vader (another daddy) is just one example of how applying these traits to a character can bring to an iconic and really complex and human villain. ... About Jonathan Kent... Yeah, Snyder's version is probably a farmer by day and a serial killer by night. After all, in Zack's vision, "Batman could be raped in prison", right? My God, Snyder. My. God. The speech after the bus incident could have made sense if it happened after Clark using his powers without real need, without anyone in danger. Then ok, you can say "WTF you alien idiot, I told you not to show off, for your own safety!". But this... yes, serial killer by night. Definitely.
Not only did they retcon Palpatine into having a son but they then retconned said son into a failed clone of Palpatine which means that he's both Rey's dad and granddad.
I've heard this take about Infinity War conflating love with abuse, and while I have many problems with the film, and the Thanos Gomorra dynamic, I'm not sure it actually does this. The construction of the sacrifice is that THANOS must give up what THANOS loves most. Yes, we all know that from an outside perspective and certainly from Gomorra's perspective, the relationship is an extremely abusive one. But it's quite clear that Thanos believes what he feels for Gomorra is love, and since is is Thanos who must make the sacrifice, that's all that matters from the Soul Stone perspective. It is quite possible for a person to genuinely love someone but still be an abusive monster, and indeed to characterize their abuse as a symbol of their love. Gomorra even challenges this when she realizes how deranged calling their relationship "love" is. To say otherwise is to suggest something not only untrue, but dangerous: that for something to be abuse, the ABUSER must define it as such, rather than the one who receives the abuse. My sister and I grew up under a very abusive father, and the characterization of an abuser as one who views oneself as the one willing to make the hard choices, that hurts their children to help them and genuinely loves them despite being their tormentor is a very accurate one, and I never once felt like the film was asking me to see their relationship as anything but the monstrous tragedy that it was. I did however feel like the film was asking me to sympathize with Thanos' worldview, which I do have some big issues with. What's interesting is that I DID feel like a certain film was asking me to view an abusive relationship favorable, and that is Yondo is GotG2. I think people went way too easy on that film's handling of an abusive father.
Not to charge in with something totally off topic but one thing I really like about steven universe is their subversion of the “perfect dead mom” trope. Like, thats what rose quartz seems like at first but as more is revealed about her it turns out while she was loving and had good intentions she could also be really selfish and irresponsible and ended up causing a lot of problems that the surviving characters are left behind having to deal with. She has a relationship with steven thats way more complex than “my perfect mom got fridged and now i have to go on an angry manly rampage to avenge her” and I just think thats pretty cool and refreshing, ya feel? ---------edit----------- Also, the show acknowledges that rose hurt people in a lot of ways without totally excusing her with a “she did what she though was best for everyone!” Like, she gets called out on her mistakes, especially in the more recent episodes
As a daughter who sat next to her abusive father in the theatre watching Thanos be rewarded for murdering his child, who he supposedly ‘loved’, thank you for calling this out.
"Talk lies to me, Mommy." I spent the next few minutes taking apart my phone case to dry it after spitting out my tea. But also, THANK YOU for calling out the "Thanos loves Gamora" bullshit. That part of the movie took me out of it completely, it was so ridiculous.
Yeah. Otherwise, why would it be a word in the furst place? Daddy was something for the child to call their father than showed love for them beyond fear and respect. It showed that the child was comfortable, which is an honor any man would gladly accept. So let the good daddies of the world have their child call them that.
This all reminds me of a real quote by Noel Gallagher, songwriter of the band Oasis, which went: “You could say (my dad) beat the talent into me” In his mind he was doing mental gymnastics to work out a way to justify his physically abusive dad’s behaviour, falling upon the idea that without and abusive dad he never would have retreated into learning the guitar. Noel also says that he “feels no compulsion to write about (his) abuse”, he’s either dealt with it in his own way or in denial about its effects on him. His younger sibling, Liam the singer of Oasis, was not beaten but harboured much more outward resentment for their father’s behaviour. It’s possible that Liam, having avoided physical abuse, was more brash because he hadn’t been beaten into his place by daddy. These quotes are from the Oasis documentary “Supersonic: The Story of Oasis” if you’d like more context. Good film, with an interesting daddy moment too.
Huh, interesting. That wasn't my read on Thanos at all. I thought the film was genuinely positioning him as an abusive monster, and read the soul stone thing as doubling down on his monstrousness by showing him prioritising his goals over that love. I can see your position, though. Absolutely agree on Odin and Yondu, however :V
Agree with this. Though I will say that Tony went bananas not because of his father, who he resented, but because of his mother. I quote, "I don't care. He killed my mom."
It's officially on my bucket list to make a generic revenge movie called "Murder Daddy." Thank you, Maggie. Thank you for this inspiration. #MurderDaddyLives
Did no one on the set of Man of Steel point out that Pa Kent and Jor El have the wrong script? If anything, they should be reversed. Jor, in rebelling against the predetermination of Kryptonian society, would want Kal El to choose his path in life. And Pa Kent should be the one who insists that there's some great purpose for Clark. In one scene, he even says "You were sent here for a reason." yet through his words and actions, he's saying the reason Clark is there is to hide his powers, no matter what, even if it means standing by and letting kids drown in a school bus. Honestly, it seems like Kevin Costner and Russell Crowe bumped into each other on set, dropped their scripts and accidentally picked each others up by mistake. And Zack Snyder didn't notice because, as we saw in Sucker Punch, he's not a very good writer.
UNTIL he is Ready( To bare the Rejection he'll ultimately face because Humanity is shitty). Everyone always overlooks that part. We see why this was Sound advice when we Meet Amanda Waller in Suicide Squad, a person who would have happily threatened to throw the Kents in Guantanamo to get her hands on an asset like Clark then used them as leverage for his continued obedience like she used the Witches and the Majors Hearts to gain theirs. The Movies were connected for a reason. And BvS was an answer to the question posed in The Dark Knight. "You ether die a Hero or live to see yourself become the Villain" This was a Batman who's been fighting crime in Gotham for twenty years. Batman does several Crimes in the movie from Theft to Manslaughter (Although Technically it was self defense) and at the "Martha" scene was going to commit the cold bloodied premeditated Murder of an Innocent man (who always held back and never physically struck him in their altercation) The Martha line is Batman realizing that in his grief and rage he'd allowed himself to become like the Man who'd killed his parents so long ago. Also you didn't understand Sucker Punch.
You were woefully underused by... your previous employer Concise and expansive, informative without being preachy, and funny without being condescending
Tony's reaction in Civil War wasn't so much about his daddy, as it was about his Mother. He was never quite sure, until Iron Man 3 maybe, that his father really loved him, but his mother's love wasn't ambiguous, losing her screwed him up.
Exactly. She's the one who shows him clear compassion in the hologram flashback scene. He is also the person he refers to towards Steve when he states "This won't change anything". *_"I don't care, he killed my mom."_* Is his father a factor of his anger? Sure. But it's not the focus of it.
Oh dude, this is awesome. You've got yourself a subscriber and a fan. Honestly I'm just commenting here for bragging rights when you hit a million subscribers like... next month. Keep producing content like this, it is fantastic!
That bit with Gamora and the Soul Stone was so maddening. Thanos should have had to throw himself in because that's the only person he ever truly loved.
WillTheMallet Thanos did love Gamora. But he is also The Mad Titan, as in literally insane. He can not tell the difference between care and abuse, just as he can not distinguish creating a universal paradise from mass murder. You could call this a selfish or toxic love. I believe he truly wants the best for her but came only frame his actions based on his own desires not hers. He loves her but does not empathise with her. Most importantly, he is cleary coded as the Villian (with a capital V), a warning to "daddies" of just hpw fucked up love without empathy can be.
will harris thats not love. Its possession. I really think that if they meant it as a warning or caution, then he wouldn't have gotten the Soul Stone by killing her. The way the movie stands is, its fine to be a monster because you still love them. He can be super abusive, but its still love! Just fucked up love. Thats not a warning its an excuse.
Spocksays I think the point is that love isn't an excuse. Love isn't an absulute good, it's a strong connection one feels to another due a perticular pattern of neurons firing. That doesn't make the feeling any less real for the person experiencing it, but it also doesn't make it a justification for the unjustifiable.
will harris But he’s so calm throughout the whole movie, we never get a sense of his insanity, and by the end of the movie a lot of people will end up agreeing with him. I think they sanitized him a bit too much just to make it interesting, that you could see him as the protagonist. I’m torn, because I do think showing him as more legit insane would be a better, classier move, but also less interesting, because we’ve seen that before. This Thanos is something different, a daddy who holds his caring facade up so well that you never see any sign of his true insanity, that he MUST get off on all this destruction or else why would he continue?
6:50 so you're worried about abused children watching a film that contextualizes their personal struggle? That shows them that while their abuser might still have feelings, that doesn't make them the good guy? Thanos was the villain the villain that killed most of our favorite superheroes. This movie might actually help abusees see that they need help or that their abuser needs to be stopped before they do worse things, even though they might think they love the abused kid
Multiple people have commented that Thanos offended them because of their own personal history of abuse; same goes for one of my closest irl friends. So maybe don't speak for victims of abuse as you defend a movie with a giant purple cartoon villain.
Maggie Mae Fish Ive read a lot of your replies so far to people who make the point that the op did, and it seems more like you are really doubling down on your stance because you “have a black friend”. You’re ascribing your interpretation of the film to the intent of the filmmakers and justifying it because you’ve talked to victims of abuse, or have a friend that was one. Well I’ve also read other comments that had the opposite interpretation that you did who were also victims of abuse, including myself. So its okay for you to speak for abuse victims and think they all have to see the film the same way you do, and not the op? Or myself? Or anyone else? Thats a little arrogant. These things are subjective and nuanced. But I still think I like u. And I loved Infinity War. And Thanos was a great villain.
Not only did I like this video, I gasped at the robot in the background. I owned that one when I was a kid and then forgot all about him. I didn't think anyone else every had him. I'm blanking on his name, but still...props!
I see the implication of Infinity War's treatment of Thanos, Gamora and the Soul Stone not as "Abuse is love", but as "Love can be abusive". Which, from my experience, can be true with parents.
Today I Learned there's a subgenre of action films that will henceforth forever be known to me as "Murder Daddy" films and I don't know how to feel about that
Re: Thanos. I think that not all "love" is positive. I would argue that sometimes "love" can be obsessive and controlling, and even though the "universe" is validating that love, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing Also, I totally never realized what the perspective of an abused child would be watching this movie, that was extremely enlightening
Yeah I was abused as a child (but by my mom tho) and I'm glad I didn't see that movie. Just seeing guardians of the galaxy 2 made me so angry and deeply uncomfortable. I can't believe how much they glorified Yondu just because Ego was worse. Starlord discovers Ego is bad and that makes everything Yondu did to him somehow okay like how he's "Woow I realize now how you are my true father. I never should have rejected your love and being so focused on finding my biological dad". Like nooo you rejected his love because he beat your up and threatened to kill you multiple times. From him and his crew. That's great that you realize that he means more to you than just being a father figure and that you actually see him as a father but that doesn't make any abuses he made to you suddenly okay and that doesn't make him a good person. It especially pissed me off because in this movie and in the first one they keep hammering how Thanos is abusive. So they're okay with Yondu's abuse but not Thanos. This isn't much of a surprise to discover than later on they try to justify Thanos's abuse too. I could have not have handled that. And that comes from someone who's a young adult and has some form of self-awareness with the situation. I can't tell you how much it would have fucked me up as a child because I would have not been confident enough to completely reject the movie, I would have just argue with it in my head while internalizing it.
As much as I appreciate the sentiment behind this video, the idea that abusive parents must be depicted as incapable of loving their children is not always a helpful message to send either. It falls into the tendency of A) dehumanizing the very concept of "an abuser" to the extent that they must simply be monstrous villains, making it hard to for us to recognize that not all abuse in real life is presented as soulless cartoon villainy, and B) over-glorifying the idea of love as this necessarily benevolent force for good that will necessarily prevail against all evil. But the fact is that things are not always so simple and painting it as so simple makes it hard to recognize and confront actual abuse when we're faced with it. A parent can be loving to a child almost all of the time and still be abusive to them. Making it out as if a parent could only ever abuse you if they don't love you will just make victims think "Oh, well, my parents obviously do love me, so obviously they aren't abusers." Which, again, is not a helpful mindset. I would argue that a wiser message would be "Love does not magically solve all problems. Even if my parents love me, that doesn't change the fact that they could still hurt me and that I need to be wary of that." It's a much uglier message. It's much harder to hear, and to confront. But it's still preferable to the simplistic fairy-tale depiction of abusive parents that, I'm sorry to say, appears to be what you are advocating for in its stead.
Okay...I must have missed that detail in midst of the discourse chiding filmmakers for daring to show an abuser who loves his victim, in spite of his abuse, to impressionable adults and their kids. That's on me, I suppose. And if that's the case then...what is the issue? Is Infinity War irresponsible or not for showing a truthful dynamic between an abuser and his victim? Is it simply this specific relationship between Thanos and Gamora, and the degree to which it is abusive, that is the problem here? Do you disagree that a completely black-white depiction of abusers -- where Thanos ended up totally not being able to love Gamora because he's a meanie and love is a precious pure thing reserved only for nice people -- would be an unhelpful message in different ways?
BrianWilly I completely hear what you are saying and also believe that it can coexist with a close inspection of shortcomings which in some cases may go unnoticed in order to be able to more closely examine ourselves and adjust accordingly. In other words, where's the conflict here? Perfection cannot be achieved but if it's our true aim, we can constantly improve. Maggie, would it be possible to identify errors and shortcomings without painting the totality of a person as a villain? Certainly some people are overall malicious villains and some acts are eggregious enough on their own can negate the possibility of redemption but where do we delineate villain from flawed but not malicious individual who needs to identify and correct those flaws?
Maggie, I really miss you guys from Cracked. I randomly stumbled on you today and I'm consuming all of your media immediately. Thank you for being you (which is an amazing person).
I came across your fight club content yesterday. Very intriguing perspectives. I’m very excited to see more of your interpretations and how you convey them.
Dave175 that ministry site was too much. Figures that the superhero movie with the worst message would be held up by churches as the best. It’s confounding, because other than the super super obvious and lazy religious imagery (Superman holds his arms out like he’s on a cross!), there’s nothing about Man of Steel that lines up with Jesus’ actual teachings
It might be hard to say but abusers do often “love” their victims but it’s never good love. You can love someone or something and still abuse it especially when your perception is skewed. In infinity war and endgame they show two very different kinds of love and relationship.
Agreed on almost all fronts. The only issue I take is the Pa Kent 'Maybe' scene. There was enough acting there to inform the viewer that even though Pa Kent thought Clark did the right thing, he was worried about what would happen next. The rest of the Daddy stuff was spot on.
I wonder what makes this person think that Infinity war was somehow endorsing Thanos evil deeds? Did the crowd on her movie theater stood up and cheer when the film was over and Thanos won? Because in my showing everyone was saddened and in shock.
Great vid, loved it, awesome seeing you do your own thing after the whole unfortunate thing with Cracked, but... UNMEMORABLE BAD GUY!? ...How dare you...
Bruce's mom is always perfect. Most tellings of Batman's origins give Bruce/Batman decades of time to fabricate a Madonna persona for her. She almost always be everything the character of Batman wants to project upon the perfect mother that he lost. What I am, unfortunately, super curious about is how does Ivanka process her father's obvious lust. Does she dismiss it and/or rationalize it in a subconscious way? Or is she actively aware of it? Or other possibilities that are too gross to contemplate.
interesting, why did you think of the way The Batman handled this? I mean, sure they've not explored it fully yet and are obviously leaving things for the future films to explore but having Martha Wayne be mentally ill and possibly hinting at that plus the deep seeded perversion of the city as a result of cyclical generational trauma was very interesting
Salient observations, but they skirt certain perceptual insights. Ironically, INFINITY WAR demonstrates the lessons that Pa Kent gets lambasted for. At several points in INFINITY WAR, the characters are given opportunities to thwart Thanos' plan but they fail to act out of their devotion to love or morality: out of love, Starlord doesn't kill Gamora--like she ASKED HIM TO--so Thanos is able to kidnap her; out of love, Gamora saves Nebula from torture, so Thanos learns where the Soul Stone is; Gamora doesn't kill herself so Thanos acquires the Soul Stone; and Starlord (again) acts out of love and breaks Mantis' bond with Thanos, waking him up. Thanos could have been stopped numerous times by utilizing the kind of big-picture aloofness Pa Kent advocates, but because no one does, Thanos succeeds and wipes out half the universe. This illustrates a flaw with the type of moral positioning you assert: that a supreme moral victory has little practical application.
Hmmmm, Starlord does try to kill Gamora, Thanos prevents him to do so. Gamora then tries to kill herself before being thrown down the cliff, again, Thanos prevents her to do so... The Nebula torture thing is true, however he could end up torturing Gamora and it's kinda hard to keep your mouth shut when you're the on being tortured. The last one is probably the most accurate one, which everybody bitched about actually :-P
@@Kyrielsh1 Starlord tries to kill Gamora AFTER she wears him down; he was supposed to do it immediately before Thanos could react, but he didn't, which is how Thanos was able to take her. Gamora did not try to throw herself off the cliff to her death, so Thanos was able to; had she done it herself, the Soul Stone would not have appeared. These are fine points, to be sure, but it still reinforces my proposal that Thanos won by manipulating the love and morality of others to work against them.
So i'm gonna stan for Starlord here, but hear me out: Star Lord did a lot of developing over 2 guardian's movies, but he was by no means done growing as a person, but he was on the road to being a better person. then, in Infinity War, Gamora pulls Peter Quill to the side and says "if Thanos tries to capture me, kill me instead." --> fastforward to their encounter with Thanos: Quill puts a gun to Gamora's head, and goes through the emotionally wrenching act of pulling the trigger BUT Thanos uses his power to deny Gamora this agency over her own life and death capture her. Then, Peter finds out that Thanos only captured Gamora just so he could kill her anyway at a time more convenient for him. I'd go apeshit too. However, I look back at Infinity War and Endgame and they really reflect bad on the MCU not just b/c of how the universe itself frames Thanos' abuse as love and he repeats fascist/eugenics talking points verbatim and none of the so called heroes ever refute him ideologically. fascism/eugenics doesn't die on ideological grounds, it dies because the avengers can punch harder than the fascists and they just happen to be on the right side of this particular conflict.
I mean, that does ring true, to be honest. Fascists are not ambiacable to debate. It's pretty clear Thanos ain't gonna be defeated through reasoned debate.
@@billyweed835 defeating someone ideologically doesn't demand debate. there's no film language going on in endgame that ever attempts to refute or push back against thanos' ideology. he's constantly framed as sympathetic if misguided, which is a dangerous way to portray ecofacism. the closest thing the movie makes to an argument about why the snap was a bad idea is "some of my friends are dead now and that makes me sad"
I just found your channel a day ago and I'm binge watching your videos. You're fucking amazing, easily the best film critic, reviewer, youtuber etc. I honestly don't know how you're not at 1 million subscribers
This is such a great video. I love the dissection of how we view fathers through this larger than life movie narrative that we're exposed to constantly and don't even realize it. Superhero stories touch on so many things and it's awesome to see that explored here:)
Having watched this essay after Avengers: Endgame came out, i kinda feel you need to recant on Thanos. My argument his humanization in Infinity War was intended as a counterpoint to his role in Endgame that he was indeed full off him self and largely self serving in his actions and his relationships. Nebula's arc was supposed to represent that in a very unsubtle way. Still its nice to be able to see perspectives i would otherwise not consider
Make more of these film essays! You're fantastic! And if you can, do some shorter videos about, say, television or anime (since I know you saw at least DB Super)
7:22, Thank you! Someone finally said what I've been feeling for years. For every time assholes try to defend the 'scars build character' pseudo philosophy with real life examples, I'm willing to bet those stories can be matched with the real life story of those who wound up simply broken under it. Or worse, became abusers themselves.
I thought that was the point of Man of Steel. Traditionally, Pa Kent is the one who instills the values into Superman. This version showed how Pa Kent still had that influence but wasn't giving the right advice. In fact, Pa Kent's advice really torments Clark. Eventually, Superman takes a little from both his fathers, while ultimately choosing his own path-- you know, as we all do. I remember how people hated what Snyder did to change Pa Kent, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. He was flawed. Superman's mother was the only one who told him how to manage his abilities, which is what helped him when he was fighting Zod.
It's really weird how this internet and our culture has shifted the context of the word "daddy" When the hell did I feel promiscuous and slightly uncomfortable using that word?! Or hearing it?!
In Man of Steel, if it was done right, Pa Kent would represent Clark's humanity, Zod would represent his Kryptonian heritage, and Jor-El would represent his choice to be what he wants to be, whatever that is, but it was handled very clumsily.
Parental fetishization is a real thing in media. Because the people creating media are guilty parents who are terrified of rebellion from their kids. Authoritarian abuse starts in childhood & media desperately tries to sweep it under the rug. That’s why I loved the episode Arch Angel in Black Mirror.
As much as i hate the “martha scene” i feel like devotion to a parental unit is misreading the situation. The way i read the scene is that up until his point batfleck has only been able to see superman as an alien, and when he is told that superman has a mother it humanizes him. Batfleck is able to see him as a person who CAN HAVE a mother, not just an alien
The problem I see with that interpretation is that Batman talks about Superman's parents earlier in that same scene. "I bet your parents taught you that you mean something, that you're here for a purpose". I don't see how Superman could suddenly become humanized in Batman's eyes for having a mother when Batman was just talking about him having parents.
@@vadalia3860 Think of what matters in that situation as ''mother in a threatening situation'', as he didn't empathize with Supes, he didn't emphatize with him having a family too. He was angry at him, and possibly thought that his parents were not different. And when the ''Martha'' scene happens, as Bruce has PTSD, his emotions and memories about the situation gets triggered , he always felt guilty of not being able to ''Save'' her and as Martha, his mother and the last word he heard in that situation makes him realize he was about to kill say, the little boy in the crime alley and let ''Martha'' die at the same time. Batfleck was pretty distant from his ''human'' side at this point as Robin died,and everything went to shit, he started killing people and this is the scene where he embodies the pain he felt, his fragile human side and realizes Clark is a human, as much as him in Crime Alley.
@@Atesjb But with that interpretation, Batman becomes a rabid dog who would have murdered an innocent man and fellow hero (term used loosely for Batman here) if only his mother had been named say... Helen... instead.
@@vadalia3860 We don't know what would happen, I personaly want to believe he would stop himself at one point. But well, he was off the rails and if he didn't get that he had a mother in danger his ptsd wouldn't have been triggered, hypothetically
Nah, Snyder said that during the scene Batman viewed himself as Joe Chill (The dude who killed his parents) and was disgusted with what he had become. It's not because he realized Supes had a mother.
The reason why Thanos comes off as a likeable character even though he is the villain of the movie, is because the filmmakers treated him as the protagonist of the movie. They applied certain aspects of the "heroe's journey" on to Thanos. Infinity War begins with him finding an Infinity Stone and ends with him after he successfully wiped out half the universe. The last shot of the movie is him sitting on a hill and smiling into the sun ("I finally rest and watch the sun rise on a grateful universe"), he is happy and completely content with himself. I personally thought that was a great choice to create an interesting villain rather than the usual "punchy bad guy" you get in these blockbuster movies. It was also a great choice because its practical, since in the MCU all the main heroes are already more or less established characters so they don't need any further introductions unlike Thanos of whom we've only seen glimpses thus far.
"Who is your daddy, and what does he do?"
Our mom says that our dad is a real sex machine.
I traveled back in time, twice, so am my own daddy and mommy, respectively, future science y'all, dont think about it. Also i totally came up with this and have never read a book. No need to google anything.
What's his name?
8:51 Pa Kent's response was Maybe . Because he genuinely doesn't know the answer to the question . Life has moral dilemmas as well which do not have clear cut answers .
Wasting his existence worshipping the orange man and billionaires
The word Daddy has been ruined by the internet and you do not help
5/7 daddy af
The old, "The one who points out racism is the real racist." It's not abusive fathers (or parents) that are the problem, but us talking about it. Out of sight, out of mind.
Sway the Messingwer!
A Republican trait since 1968.... Richard Nixon has SO much to answer for, but his "Southern Strategy" of luring the Bigoted Religious Right Dixiecrats into the Republican Party has got to be a real low even for him.
I am loving your video essays!
Fun fact: Watching Thanos in Infinity War is actually what motivated me to finally leave my abusive mother. The fact that abusers can genuinely believe they love their victim and think they are doing what's best for them is not something that is discussed often.
This is probably the best thing to ever happen as a result of a Marvel movie.
Thanos: "bring me the Time Stone"
Ebony Maw: "yes daddy"
Thanos: "wh- dude, stop calling me that"
"Talk lies to me mommy" is the best thing I've ever heard.
It turned me on. It deeply turned me on. I have no idea why.
I think Maggie is super-amazing! (But it hurts real bad in my heart area.)
I'm gonna start using "save martha" as a salutation!
I've tried to start a trend where......when someone BURPS....you say "AMEN!"..... and when someone farts you say "AMEN!" cuz those sounds are evil escaping your body I'm told.
"God Bless You" each time a person burps or farts would work too.
(OUCH: I love how maggie MOCKS RELIGION so much! ARGH! Girl of my dreams!!!!!! OW OW OW!!)
I am a father and a high school teacher but also a big Marvel head. One of my students tried to convince me of the whole Thanos was right idea. And I spent a good part of my Cafeteria supervision explaining to her why I disagreed.
One of her contentions was that Thanos loved Gamora and my response was “I have a daughter. You are not going to convince me that Thanos loved Gamora.”
In fact that whole sequence left me aching for a reversal. I wanted Thanos to have failed the test. After all, why do we trust Red Skull all of a sudden? And why have a test of conviction to get the soul stone when a test of compassion makes more sense (at least in my head).
But I can’t think of how such a reversal might be possible now for the simple reason that he didn’t fail. He got the stone. Toxic message be damned.
I also pointed out to her that for a person who is willing to randomly kill half the galaxy, thing you care about most is a low bar to clear.
Wow, what was her response to that?
It stopped that line of conversation and we moved on to my contention that population growth is a constant and how killing half of everyone is a temporary fix and that he would have to keep doing it every 50 years without other changes.
See, I'm a dad too, and what that scene - along with all of the scenes involving Thanos and Gamora - did for me was convince me of how strongly, and wrongly, Thanos feels on that issue.
Have you ever known someone who correctly identifies a problem, but then becomes completely fixated on one solution? That's Thanos. Thanos correctly identified a problem on his home planet. But when he was ridiculed for what he'd found, he solidified his potential solution as the only one possible. Which is a shame, because his solution was super dumb. As you, and many others, have pointed out.
Identifying a problem correctly is not the same as saying your potential solution is correct. But it can be very easy to become fixated on your own solution if people refuse to even accept you were right with identifying the problem, because at that point it becomes easy to dismiss the thoughts of the people who refused to listen to you at all.
We can accept and agree Thanos was wrong and evil, while also accepting that he truly thought he was doing the right thing. He decided he had to "do the hard thing" to "be the hero". It is this monomania that makes him a tragic figure, even as he's a despicable one, because he's not willing to consider another path, or the truth of his actions.
If we accept that he can be both evil and well meaning, then his scenes with Gamora take on a different light. He is being terrible to her, but in his own screwed up way, he is convinced that's he's doing what's best for her. He's trying to make her into someone just like him - someone who's willing to do whatever it takes. Someone willing to accept "hard answers", but in a person like him, it's so easy to convince themselves that anything "easy" is "wrong". He was trying to be a good dad by imprinting on her everything he holds to be true. And while I don't think "sculpting my child to be just like me" is the correct way to handle parenting, it's a depressingly common one.
Does all this make his behavior acceptable? No, I'd say it makes it worse. Personally, I always find evil behavior done in the name of good to be extra-terrible. But it provides a coherent and plausible cause of his behavior towards his film, and explains his emotional reaction at killing her. His favored daughter, who he'd hand-crafted to be as much like him as possible - as much like the most perfect being in the galaxy, that is - had to be sacrificed. But he did it anyway, because it was either that or - in his eyes - sacrifice the entire galaxy. And as much as you or I love our daughters, if you put a button in front of us and say "you can save a 100 trillion lives, or save your daughter", that's a hard choice. A choice we're never likely to see, and a choice Thanoes DOESN'T REALLY HAVE, but thinks he has. And he, as he has built his entire world view around, made the "hard" choice. He chooses sacrifice each and every time, because he's decided that makes an action real. And that's what makes him scary. Because the whole time he beats you, or kills half your family, he's not angry. He's doing it out of love.
And it turns out love doesn't have to be just kittens and rainbows. Sometimes it can be used to justify the worst behavior of all. And I think deciding this isn't "real" love is reductive and dangerous. Just because it's often an excuse doesn't make that always be the case, and a flat rejection of what an enemy says is a dangerous thing to do. I think Infinity War makes a strong case that Thanos legitimately loves. Which is why his madness is so tragic, and scary. Someone merely dedicated to power for its own sake isn't nearly as worrying as someone who's fighting for a cause.
For another case of "I have love, but faith my action is correct", please see the story of Abraham and Isaac.
...sorry for the wall there.
This is a pretty weird trend. Though I'd argue that the MCU at least understands that its bad dads are bad dads. When Tony loses it in Civil War, he specifically says it's because Bucky killed his mom, who we see in the flashback he was much closer to than his cold, possibly emotionally abusive dad. Then Gamorra straight up says to Thanos what you said: "This isn't love." And Lindsay Ellis has a great video on how GotG2 doesn't apologize for Yondu's abusiveness, but is instead about how a child's relationship with an abusive parent can be extremely complicated.
Though at the same time, Odin is presented as the good and wise daddy to the end when he was a really bad dad to all three of his kids.
I look forward to part 2, which I hope will be about Good Dads.
Yeah, MCU is like... ALMOST effective at portraying dads/parents in an interesting way. I think there's some merit to the "he killed my mom" Tony Stark thing, but still, the characterization of the mom isn't really there. I think in that one flashback/recreation scene, Tony even mentions that that interaction never actually happened. So it's like one more step removed from reality.
And Lindsay's video was great!
If the theme of Avengers 3 and 4 is balance then Avengers 4 will have to be about something that reverses the negativity of Infinity War. Personally I'm thinking it might be about moms.... Captain Marvel's supposed to be the key character to save everyone. I dunno if she's a mother though.... so maybe that doesn't apply.
Gotg 2 agnoledges that th complex relationship of having a father who is a slightly abusive(but caring) space pirate or a supervillain. The side of your father that reflects negativ on you snd makes you question youself. Like in real lie. Plus i think bucky under mindcontrol killed tonys mum too.
Although Gamora does say 'This isn't love', the movie still treats it like it *is* (the sappy music whilst murdering her and validating it with the soul stone) which completely undermines that point. I think the MCU's handling of dads is... inconsistent at best, unfortunately, but there is at least some nuance (on the whole). And Linday's video is fucking awesome.
Madeline Van Dongen - Yeah, the fact that he's rewarded with the Soul Stone is an issue. I could argue that because it's vaguely defined movie magic, it didn't actually require real love, just that Thanos truly believe what he felt was love, but I can't really substantiate that reading with anything in the movie.
I'm hoping that Avengers 4 reveals that this is the key to defeating Thanos and undoing everything, that the Soul Stone is corrupted in some way because he didn't truly love her. But since I've considered that, it probably won't happen.
Did the universe REALLY confirm that Thanos actually loved Gamora? Or did it just confirm that he THINKS he loves her? I took the qualifier for the "sacrifice" as just someone that meant a lot to them, not specifically genuinely loved.
I have a feeling that in the next Avengers movie, we might learn that the situation was rigged or whatever. But obviously that's speculation or retconning, so it's not really valid to argue. I'm HOPING they retcon it, but as far as we can tell, from what the movie tells/shows us, the universe is saying he *DOES* love her. And to a kid sitting in a theater, that's all they'll get from it. Waiting a year to find out "oh, just kidding; he doesn't love her" is... meh. In fact, if they HAD included a few lines about how messed up that scene is, it would've been great! It would've complicated the narrative in a really cool way. But alas. Also, I really did like the movie, so it was even more of a bummer. Whereas Man of Steel is like... lol.
Well, there IS that line BY Gamora of her saying "this isn't love", and the fact that she definitely will be coming back gives us a chance for her to tell him off (whether inside the stone or outside) about how messed up his version of "love" is, which won't be as much of a RETcon as it just...con. But you're right that kids are impressionable, so I hope the next movie will clarify this.
Maggie Mae Fish Loving someone does mean you act in their best interest all the time. Thanos loved Gamora but The MAD Titan cant tell the difference between love and abuse. His problem is lack of empathy. I never saw Thanos as a power trip for "daddies" but a warning against toxicity.
Ive known many with children with severe learning difficulties who have suffered parental abuse and have seen many cases of parents who clearly love their children but act abusivily because they want their children to be "normal" and don't understand their needs. Thanos, I would argue, is in a simular situation.
"But I think your missing a point that 'Love' by your sane standard is not the same that abusive and psychopath people use."
I compared Thanos to The Operative from Serenity. They are both willing to do horrible things, because they truly believe they doing the right thing. Thanos abused his kids, because he loved them and really thought he was doing the right thing. That doesn't justify his abuse, but it makes him a whole lot scarier.
I think Infinity War purposely skewed things; Thanos, from the narrative's perspective, is the protagonist, even though his actions, motivations, and philosophy are all pretty capital "E" evil when you really look at them. So, the structure, and even the occurrences like the scene with the soul stone, may have birthed this whole "Thanos was right" meme, but the intent seems to me to be about exposing the negativity and banal "evil" of patriarchy and general hubris. Thanos's greatest sin, to me, is believing himself incapable of being wrong. He literally ravages the galaxy for probably centuries because he couldn't reexamine an idea that involves killing half of everyone.
I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the Snyder-verse; the best writers focus on the difficulties in moral choices when approaching people with power, and the responsibility of being powerful, where Snyder was... not.
No masters, no gods, no daddies.
I agree. The funny thing, about Thanos, is that he isn't originally abusive towards Gamora in the comics. Her family was killed by the Magus, and she would have died too, but THANOS saved her. Then of course he trained her as a killer and all that, but the most important point remains different from the movie: at the core of their relationship there isn't an act of violence. There is an act of (not genuine, but still) compassion. And I think keeping this element in the movie would have changed it all. Thanos brutally deprives all his children of their families before "adopting" them, but Gamora is the only one he took in with an act of true goodness, of true compassion. And THAT'S why he loves her (and is loved in return by her, deep down).
This would have brought the sacrifice on Vormir on a whole upper level of heartbreaking. Thanos would have realized his madness, at that last moment he would have seen the truth, that Gamora's love is worth more than a million Infinity Stones... but he would have killed her anyway, because he'd also have realized that he is too far gone to turn back now.
I don't know about the Russos, but THIS is what I would call an "empathetic villain". A man that chooses evil while knowing full well what good is. And yet he can't come back anymore.
Darth Vader (another daddy) is just one example of how applying these traits to a character can bring to an iconic and really complex and human villain.
...
About Jonathan Kent... Yeah, Snyder's version is probably a farmer by day and a serial killer by night. After all, in Zack's vision, "Batman could be raped in prison", right?
My God, Snyder. My. God.
The speech after the bus incident could have made sense if it happened after Clark using his powers without real need, without anyone in danger. Then ok, you can say "WTF you alien idiot, I told you not to show off, for your own safety!".
But this... yes, serial killer by night. Definitely.
Except a man who makes decisions that knows is hard is also empathetic not sympathetic like people confused.
a moment of silence for when "the emperor was a DADDY without being a daddy." simpler times.
Not only did they retcon Palpatine into having a son but they then retconned said son into a failed clone of Palpatine which means that he's both Rey's dad and granddad.
I've heard this take about Infinity War conflating love with abuse, and while I have many problems with the film, and the Thanos Gomorra dynamic, I'm not sure it actually does this. The construction of the sacrifice is that THANOS must give up what THANOS loves most. Yes, we all know that from an outside perspective and certainly from Gomorra's perspective, the relationship is an extremely abusive one. But it's quite clear that Thanos believes what he feels for Gomorra is love, and since is is Thanos who must make the sacrifice, that's all that matters from the Soul Stone perspective.
It is quite possible for a person to genuinely love someone but still be an abusive monster, and indeed to characterize their abuse as a symbol of their love. Gomorra even challenges this when she realizes how deranged calling their relationship "love" is. To say otherwise is to suggest something not only untrue, but dangerous: that for something to be abuse, the ABUSER must define it as such, rather than the one who receives the abuse.
My sister and I grew up under a very abusive father, and the characterization of an abuser as one who views oneself as the one willing to make the hard choices, that hurts their children to help them and genuinely loves them despite being their tormentor is a very accurate one, and I never once felt like the film was asking me to see their relationship as anything but the monstrous tragedy that it was.
I did however feel like the film was asking me to sympathize with Thanos' worldview, which I do have some big issues with.
What's interesting is that I DID feel like a certain film was asking me to view an abusive relationship favorable, and that is Yondo is GotG2. I think people went way too easy on that film's handling of an abusive father.
save martha
also, never forget to save martha
"The Emperor is a daddy without being a daddy"
Uh oh...
Not to charge in with something totally off topic but one thing I really like about steven universe is their subversion of the “perfect dead mom” trope. Like, thats what rose quartz seems like at first but as more is revealed about her it turns out while she was loving and had good intentions she could also be really selfish and irresponsible and ended up causing a lot of problems that the surviving characters are left behind having to deal with. She has a relationship with steven thats way more complex than “my perfect mom got fridged and now i have to go on an angry manly rampage to avenge her” and I just think thats pretty cool and refreshing, ya feel?
---------edit-----------
Also, the show acknowledges that rose hurt people in a lot of ways without totally excusing her with a “she did what she though was best for everyone!” Like, she gets called out on her mistakes, especially in the more recent episodes
As a daughter who sat next to her abusive father in the theatre watching Thanos be rewarded for murdering his child, who he supposedly ‘loved’, thank you for calling this out.
Other abusive people didn't feel that way. People react to things differently.
"Talk lies to me, Mommy."
I spent the next few minutes taking apart my phone case to dry it after spitting out my tea.
But also, THANK YOU for calling out the "Thanos loves Gamora" bullshit. That part of the movie took me out of it completely, it was so ridiculous.
Thanos worst dad ever. They don't redeem him in the comics. Nebula really hates him and kills the crap out of him. Total exploady, pretty great
Educate me, Daddy.
Legolas + Liv Tyler definitely made an impact on a young me 😍
The word "daddy" has lost all meaning by the end of this video.
did that word EVER have meaning? at all?
Yeah. Otherwise, why would it be a word in the furst place?
Daddy was something for the child to call their father than showed love for them beyond fear and respect. It showed that the child was comfortable, which is an honor any man would gladly accept. So let the good daddies of the world have their child call them that.
This all reminds me of a real quote by Noel Gallagher, songwriter of the band Oasis, which went: “You could say (my dad) beat the talent into me”
In his mind he was doing mental gymnastics to work out a way to justify his physically abusive dad’s behaviour, falling upon the idea that without and abusive dad he never would have retreated into learning the guitar. Noel also says that he “feels no compulsion to write about (his) abuse”, he’s either dealt with it in his own way or in denial about its effects on him. His younger sibling, Liam the singer of Oasis, was not beaten but harboured much more outward resentment for their father’s behaviour. It’s possible that Liam, having avoided physical abuse, was more brash because he hadn’t been beaten into his place by daddy.
These quotes are from the Oasis documentary “Supersonic: The Story of Oasis” if you’d like more context. Good film, with an interesting daddy moment too.
Huh, interesting. That wasn't my read on Thanos at all. I thought the film was genuinely positioning him as an abusive monster, and read the soul stone thing as doubling down on his monstrousness by showing him prioritising his goals over that love. I can see your position, though.
Absolutely agree on Odin and Yondu, however :V
especially because we saw in an earlier movie that Gamora couldn't see her father's abuse until she was an adult
I disagree about Odin because his children are literally monsters (except for Thor).
Agree with this.
Though I will say that Tony went bananas not because of his father, who he resented, but because of his mother. I quote, "I don't care. He killed my mom."
he just wanted to save martha!
WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME!?!
"What was your choice, daddy? To neg him!"
LOL
It's officially on my bucket list to make a generic revenge movie called "Murder Daddy."
Thank you, Maggie. Thank you for this inspiration.
#MurderDaddyLives
punisher best daddy
Did no one on the set of Man of Steel point out that Pa Kent and Jor El have the wrong script? If anything, they should be reversed. Jor, in rebelling against the predetermination of Kryptonian society, would want Kal El to choose his path in life. And Pa Kent should be the one who insists that there's some great purpose for Clark. In one scene, he even says "You were sent here for a reason." yet through his words and actions, he's saying the reason Clark is there is to hide his powers, no matter what, even if it means standing by and letting kids drown in a school bus. Honestly, it seems like Kevin Costner and Russell Crowe bumped into each other on set, dropped their scripts and accidentally picked each others up by mistake. And Zack Snyder didn't notice because, as we saw in Sucker Punch, he's not a very good writer.
UNTIL he is Ready( To bare the Rejection he'll ultimately face because Humanity is shitty). Everyone always overlooks that part. We see why this was Sound advice when we Meet Amanda Waller in Suicide Squad, a person who would have happily threatened to throw the Kents in Guantanamo to get her hands on an asset like Clark then used them as leverage for his continued obedience like she used the Witches and the Majors Hearts to gain theirs. The Movies were connected for a reason. And BvS was an answer to the question posed in The Dark Knight. "You ether die a Hero or live to see yourself become the Villain" This was a Batman who's been fighting crime in Gotham for twenty years. Batman does several Crimes in the movie from Theft to Manslaughter (Although Technically it was self defense) and at the "Martha" scene was going to commit the cold bloodied premeditated Murder of an Innocent man (who always held back and never physically struck him in their altercation) The Martha line is Batman realizing that in his grief and rage he'd allowed himself to become like the Man who'd killed his parents so long ago. Also you didn't understand Sucker Punch.
@@Fenris30 yeah sucker punch is a film about stories and archetypes, all Zack Snyder films are.
I don't think normal dad's really identify with Thanos. It's made pretty clear he's the bad guy.
You were woefully underused by... your previous employer
Concise and expansive, informative without being preachy, and funny without being condescending
OMG no wonder I thought she was so familiar.
@@streampunksheep Can I get some context?
Kate Slate cracked.com
Tony's reaction in Civil War wasn't so much about his daddy, as it was about his Mother. He was never quite sure, until Iron Man 3 maybe, that his father really loved him, but his mother's love wasn't ambiguous, losing her screwed him up.
Exactly. She's the one who shows him clear compassion in the hologram flashback scene. He is also the person he refers to towards Steve when he states "This won't change anything". *_"I don't care, he killed my mom."_*
Is his father a factor of his anger? Sure. But it's not the focus of it.
Damn, that was a damn good video, Mags. Cogent analysis, insightful and incisive. Can't wait for part 2!
Those deep fake skills on Jor-El were next level son
Oh dude, this is awesome. You've got yourself a subscriber and a fan. Honestly I'm just commenting here for bragging rights when you hit a million subscribers like... next month. Keep producing content like this, it is fantastic!
That bit with Gamora and the Soul Stone was so maddening. Thanos should have had to throw himself in because that's the only person he ever truly loved.
WillTheMallet Thanos did love Gamora. But he is also The Mad Titan, as in literally insane. He can not tell the difference between care and abuse, just as he can not distinguish creating a universal paradise from mass murder. You could call this a selfish or toxic love. I believe he truly wants the best for her but came only frame his actions based on his own desires not hers. He loves her but does not empathise with her.
Most importantly, he is cleary coded as the Villian (with a capital V), a warning to "daddies" of just hpw fucked up love without empathy can be.
will harris thats not love. Its possession. I really think that if they meant it as a warning or caution, then he wouldn't have gotten the Soul Stone by killing her. The way the movie stands is, its fine to be a monster because you still love them. He can be super abusive, but its still love! Just fucked up love. Thats not a warning its an excuse.
I think he did love Gamora, but it was a twisted love. A tortured love. He is a madman after all.
Spocksays I think the point is that love isn't an excuse. Love isn't an absulute good, it's a strong connection one feels to another due a perticular pattern of neurons firing. That doesn't make the feeling any less real for the person experiencing it, but it also doesn't make it a justification for the unjustifiable.
will harris But he’s so calm throughout the whole movie, we never get a sense of his insanity, and by the end of the movie a lot of people will end up agreeing with him. I think they sanitized him a bit too much just to make it interesting, that you could see him as the protagonist. I’m torn, because I do think showing him as more legit insane would be a better, classier move, but also less interesting, because we’ve seen that before. This Thanos is something different, a daddy who holds his caring facade up so well that you never see any sign of his true insanity, that he MUST get off on all this destruction or else why would he continue?
Oh gawd. Why is this video the most relatable thing I've seen all year?
*immediately continues down youtube rabbit hole of escapism*
I'm fine.
Maggie. I'm so glad you have your own series. :') These are really great analyses, I'm super looking forward to more
6:50 so you're worried about abused children watching a film that contextualizes their personal struggle? That shows them that while their abuser might still have feelings, that doesn't make them the good guy? Thanos was the villain the villain that killed most of our favorite superheroes. This movie might actually help abusees see that they need help or that their abuser needs to be stopped before they do worse things, even though they might think they love the abused kid
Multiple people have commented that Thanos offended them because of their own personal history of abuse; same goes for one of my closest irl friends. So maybe don't speak for victims of abuse as you defend a movie with a giant purple cartoon villain.
Maggie Mae Fish
Ive read a lot of your replies so far to people who make the point that the op did, and it seems more like you are really doubling down on your stance because you “have a black friend”. You’re ascribing your interpretation of the film to the intent of the filmmakers and justifying it because you’ve talked to victims of abuse, or have a friend that was one. Well I’ve also read other comments that had the opposite interpretation that you did who were also victims of abuse, including myself. So its okay for you to speak for abuse victims and think they all have to see the film the same way you do, and not the op? Or myself? Or anyone else? Thats a little arrogant. These things are subjective and nuanced.
But I still think I like u. And I loved Infinity War. And Thanos was a great villain.
I've seen people who in fact did get the message that thanos is a monster regardless of his feelings Maggie. How about you take your own advice.
Hey I want to say I love your videos and I think your commentary is spot on in this one. Thanks for posting your creative-ness to the internets.
Not only did I like this video, I gasped at the robot in the background. I owned that one when I was a kid and then forgot all about him. I didn't think anyone else every had him. I'm blanking on his name, but still...props!
I see the implication of Infinity War's treatment of Thanos, Gamora and the Soul Stone not as "Abuse is love", but as "Love can be abusive". Which, from my experience, can be true with parents.
wtf are you talking about
Loved it! I could've done with even more on Rand/Snyder, as that stuff fascinates me, and you have really good spins on it all!
I know I’m 3 years late to your video here, but I’ve been binging your videos all week and they’ve been so much fun!!
How did I just find your videos? This is gold.
Today I Learned there's a subgenre of action films that will henceforth forever be known to me as "Murder Daddy" films and I don't know how to feel about that
Re: Thanos. I think that not all "love" is positive. I would argue that sometimes "love" can be obsessive and controlling, and even though the "universe" is validating that love, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing
Also, I totally never realized what the perspective of an abused child would be watching this movie, that was extremely enlightening
Yeah I was abused as a child (but by my mom tho) and I'm glad I didn't see that movie. Just seeing guardians of the galaxy 2 made me so angry and deeply uncomfortable. I can't believe how much they glorified Yondu just because Ego was worse. Starlord discovers Ego is bad and that makes everything Yondu did to him somehow okay like how he's "Woow I realize now how you are my true father. I never should have rejected your love and being so focused on finding my biological dad". Like nooo you rejected his love because he beat your up and threatened to kill you multiple times. From him and his crew. That's great that you realize that he means more to you than just being a father figure and that you actually see him as a father but that doesn't make any abuses he made to you suddenly okay and that doesn't make him a good person. It especially pissed me off because in this movie and in the first one they keep hammering how Thanos is abusive. So they're okay with Yondu's abuse but not Thanos.
This isn't much of a surprise to discover than later on they try to justify Thanos's abuse too. I could have not have handled that. And that comes from someone who's a young adult and has some form of self-awareness with the situation. I can't tell you how much it would have fucked me up as a child because I would have not been confident enough to completely reject the movie, I would have just argue with it in my head while internalizing it.
Thanks for making this, I think your commentary is nuanced and well sourced. It's important that we are critical of the media we love.
Leon Thomas sent me. You've got yourself a new subscriber!
Not only are your ideas fantastic and well supported but your comedic timing is impeccable. Keep up the great work!
Thanks for using that clip from Whatever Happened To Baby Jane! It's one of my all-time favorite horror films.
As much as I appreciate the sentiment behind this video, the idea that abusive parents must be depicted as incapable of loving their children is not always a helpful message to send either. It falls into the tendency of A) dehumanizing the very concept of "an abuser" to the extent that they must simply be monstrous villains, making it hard to for us to recognize that not all abuse in real life is presented as soulless cartoon villainy, and B) over-glorifying the idea of love as this necessarily benevolent force for good that will necessarily prevail against all evil.
But the fact is that things are not always so simple and painting it as so simple makes it hard to recognize and confront actual abuse when we're faced with it. A parent can be loving to a child almost all of the time and still be abusive to them. Making it out as if a parent could only ever abuse you if they don't love you will just make victims think "Oh, well, my parents obviously do love me, so obviously they aren't abusers." Which, again, is not a helpful mindset. I would argue that a wiser message would be "Love does not magically solve all problems. Even if my parents love me, that doesn't change the fact that they could still hurt me and that I need to be wary of that."
It's a much uglier message. It's much harder to hear, and to confront. But it's still preferable to the simplistic fairy-tale depiction of abusive parents that, I'm sorry to say, appears to be what you are advocating for in its stead.
I literally state in the video that humans are complex people, capable of being loving and abusive at the same time.
Okay...I must have missed that detail in midst of the discourse chiding filmmakers for daring to show an abuser who loves his victim, in spite of his abuse, to impressionable adults and their kids. That's on me, I suppose.
And if that's the case then...what is the issue? Is Infinity War irresponsible or not for showing a truthful dynamic between an abuser and his victim? Is it simply this specific relationship between Thanos and Gamora, and the degree to which it is abusive, that is the problem here? Do you disagree that a completely black-white depiction of abusers -- where Thanos ended up totally not being able to love Gamora because he's a meanie and love is a precious pure thing reserved only for nice people -- would be an unhelpful message in different ways?
BrianWilly I completely hear what you are saying and also believe that it can coexist with a close inspection of shortcomings which in some cases may go unnoticed in order to be able to more closely examine ourselves and adjust accordingly. In other words, where's the conflict here? Perfection cannot be achieved but if it's our true aim, we can constantly improve.
Maggie, would it be possible to identify errors and shortcomings without painting the totality of a person as a villain? Certainly some people are overall malicious villains and some acts are eggregious enough on their own can negate the possibility of redemption but where do we delineate villain from flawed but not malicious individual who needs to identify and correct those flaws?
Wow. Only on the internet would you find someone arguing for more sympathetic portrayals of abusive parents.
@@ravenfrancis1476 So if you fuck up in a minor way, people in your life should abandon you in the nearest latrine pit?
Maggie, I really miss you guys from Cracked. I randomly stumbled on you today and I'm consuming all of your media immediately. Thank you for being you (which is an amazing person).
Thank you! Glad you found me!!!!
Y'know lots of them folks are on smallbeans the channel. Cody does some more news also. Yay for them cracked folks
I came across your fight club content yesterday. Very intriguing perspectives. I’m very excited to see more of your interpretations and how you convey them.
Though good job pointing out Man of Steel's bonkers-ness.
Dave175 that ministry site was too much. Figures that the superhero movie with the worst message would be held up by churches as the best. It’s confounding, because other than the super super obvious and lazy religious imagery (Superman holds his arms out like he’s on a cross!), there’s nothing about Man of Steel that lines up with Jesus’ actual teachings
@@swans184 Yea, probably because it's a superhero movie....
I just finished the 1st Season of SNOWPIERCER and I could hear you yelling about all the Daddies! Great Video!
THANK YOU. This is a huge reason I could never really get into Supernatural.
It might be hard to say but abusers do often “love” their victims but it’s never good love. You can love someone or something and still abuse it especially when your perception is skewed. In infinity war and endgame they show two very different kinds of love and relationship.
...and now I’ve fallen down a rabbit hole, watching everything on your channel, because I didn’t have enough to do. Thanks. :)
This was in my watch later list for some unknown reason,finally decided to just watch it.Good stuff.
That's the Lady Death on your shelf behind you.
I am now a life long fan.
...also your film analysis is fantastic.
Agreed on almost all fronts. The only issue I take is the Pa Kent 'Maybe' scene.
There was enough acting there to inform the viewer that even though Pa Kent thought Clark did the right thing, he was worried about what would happen next.
The rest of the Daddy stuff was spot on.
You go girl! =D You just earned a sub. Continue the great work!
Really nice stuff! I can’t wait to see more from you
I wonder what makes this person think that Infinity war was somehow endorsing Thanos evil deeds? Did the crowd on her movie theater stood up and cheer when the film was over and Thanos won? Because in my showing everyone was saddened and in shock.
Great vid, loved it, awesome seeing you do your own thing after the whole unfortunate thing with Cracked, but...
UNMEMORABLE BAD GUY!?
...How dare you...
Bruce's mom is always perfect. Most tellings of Batman's origins give Bruce/Batman decades of time to fabricate a Madonna persona for her. She almost always be everything the character of Batman wants to project upon the perfect mother that he lost.
What I am, unfortunately, super curious about is how does Ivanka process her father's obvious lust. Does she dismiss it and/or rationalize it in a subconscious way? Or is she actively aware of it? Or other possibilities that are too gross to contemplate.
interesting, why did you think of the way The Batman handled this? I mean, sure they've not explored it fully yet and are obviously leaving things for the future films to explore but having Martha Wayne be mentally ill and possibly hinting at that plus the deep seeded perversion of the city as a result of cyclical generational trauma was very interesting
You are my new favourite TH-camr!!
Daddy
FilmJoy sent me! Loving your videos.
Salient observations, but they skirt certain perceptual insights. Ironically, INFINITY WAR demonstrates the lessons that Pa Kent gets lambasted for. At several points in INFINITY WAR, the characters are given opportunities to thwart Thanos' plan but they fail to act out of their devotion to love or morality: out of love, Starlord doesn't kill Gamora--like she ASKED HIM TO--so Thanos is able to kidnap her; out of love, Gamora saves Nebula from torture, so Thanos learns where the Soul Stone is; Gamora doesn't kill herself so Thanos acquires the Soul Stone; and Starlord (again) acts out of love and breaks Mantis' bond with Thanos, waking him up. Thanos could have been stopped numerous times by utilizing the kind of big-picture aloofness Pa Kent advocates, but because no one does, Thanos succeeds and wipes out half the universe.
This illustrates a flaw with the type of moral positioning you assert: that a supreme moral victory has little practical application.
Hmmmm, Starlord does try to kill Gamora, Thanos prevents him to do so. Gamora then tries to kill herself before being thrown down the cliff, again, Thanos prevents her to do so... The Nebula torture thing is true, however he could end up torturing Gamora and it's kinda hard to keep your mouth shut when you're the on being tortured. The last one is probably the most accurate one, which everybody bitched about actually :-P
@@Kyrielsh1 Starlord tries to kill Gamora AFTER she wears him down; he was supposed to do it immediately before Thanos could react, but he didn't, which is how Thanos was able to take her. Gamora did not try to throw herself off the cliff to her death, so Thanos was able to; had she done it herself, the Soul Stone would not have appeared. These are fine points, to be sure, but it still reinforces my proposal that Thanos won by manipulating the love and morality of others to work against them.
So i'm gonna stan for Starlord here, but hear me out:
Star Lord did a lot of developing over 2 guardian's movies, but he was by no means done growing as a person, but he was on the road to being a better person.
then, in Infinity War, Gamora pulls Peter Quill to the side and says "if Thanos tries to capture me, kill me instead." --> fastforward to their encounter with Thanos: Quill puts a gun to Gamora's head, and goes through the emotionally wrenching act of pulling the trigger BUT Thanos uses his power to deny Gamora this agency over her own life and death capture her. Then, Peter finds out that Thanos only captured Gamora just so he could kill her anyway at a time more convenient for him. I'd go apeshit too.
However, I look back at Infinity War and Endgame and they really reflect bad on the MCU not just b/c of how the universe itself frames Thanos' abuse as love and he repeats fascist/eugenics talking points verbatim and none of the so called heroes ever refute him ideologically. fascism/eugenics doesn't die on ideological grounds, it dies because the avengers can punch harder than the fascists and they just happen to be on the right side of this particular conflict.
I mean, that does ring true, to be honest. Fascists are not ambiacable to debate. It's pretty clear Thanos ain't gonna be defeated through reasoned debate.
@@billyweed835 defeating someone ideologically doesn't demand debate. there's no film language going on in endgame that ever attempts to refute or push back against thanos' ideology. he's constantly framed as sympathetic if misguided, which is a dangerous way to portray ecofacism. the closest thing the movie makes to an argument about why the snap was a bad idea is "some of my friends are dead now and that makes me sad"
@@DarkSoulsSauron I mean...The fact that Earth has been left more or less in a post-apocalyptic state by his actions seems to be enough.
I just found your channel a day ago and I'm binge watching your videos. You're fucking amazing, easily the best film critic, reviewer, youtuber etc. I honestly don't know how you're not at 1 million subscribers
This is such a great video. I love the dissection of how we view fathers through this larger than life movie narrative that we're exposed to constantly and don't even realize it. Superhero stories touch on so many things and it's awesome to see that explored here:)
Having watched this essay after Avengers: Endgame came out, i kinda feel you need to recant on Thanos.
My argument his humanization in Infinity War was intended as a counterpoint to his role in Endgame that he was indeed full off him self and largely self serving in his actions and his relationships.
Nebula's arc was supposed to represent that in a very unsubtle way.
Still its nice to be able to see perspectives i would otherwise not consider
Captain America Civil War-Daddies cause fights. Batman V. Superman-Mommie's names end fights.
Don't see you getting an industry job without being a team player. Neg on. Don't change. Stay golden.
Brought here on a recommendation from the channel Renegade Cut. Great video! Subscribed!
…I don’t watch many movies - but your analytics do catch my attention
Make more of these film essays! You're fantastic! And if you can, do some shorter videos about, say, television or anime (since I know you saw at least DB Super)
You're hilarious and I will be watching more of your videos! Thank you.
8:42 has to be the greatest reaction I've seen to a nonsense statement in a while.
A hilarious video breaking down society (film narrow view on being a father) daddy issues. Another spot on video.
OMG... The bad dad trend is something I've been digging into myself. I'm glad you're jumping on it. :)
Any video that uses references to "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?" is aces in my book! Thanks, Maggie Mae!
7:22, Thank you! Someone finally said what I've been feeling for years.
For every time assholes try to defend the 'scars build character' pseudo philosophy with real life examples, I'm willing to bet those stories can be matched with the real life story of those who wound up simply broken under it. Or worse, became abusers themselves.
I can tell On Grammatlogy by Derrida just by the colors 😭
fam you just earned yourself a follower
LOL!! "Save Martha, baby." Laughed my ass off
Really great video! Can't wait for the next part!😍
I thought that was the point of Man of Steel. Traditionally, Pa Kent is the one who instills the values into Superman. This version showed how Pa Kent still had that influence but wasn't giving the right advice. In fact, Pa Kent's advice really torments Clark. Eventually, Superman takes a little from both his fathers, while ultimately choosing his own path-- you know, as we all do. I remember how people hated what Snyder did to change Pa Kent, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. He was flawed. Superman's mother was the only one who told him how to manage his abilities, which is what helped him when he was fighting Zod.
It's really weird how this internet and our culture has shifted the context of the word "daddy"
When the hell did I feel promiscuous and slightly uncomfortable using that word?! Or hearing it?!
Very good video. I’ll never look at a movie the same way and that’s a good thing. Keep up the great work.
Oh and where was the goth daddy? Seems like a missed opportunity for a jack skellington crossover.
The way daddy doesn’t even sound like a word anymore.
Great video!!
Awesome video. How Gamora wasnt really necessary to her story in Infinity War wrecked the movie for me.
Also, that Sanders joke was insane.
In Man of Steel, if it was done right, Pa Kent would represent Clark's humanity, Zod would represent his Kryptonian heritage, and Jor-El would represent his choice to be what he wants to be, whatever that is, but it was handled very clumsily.
I disagree! .....
I thought Baron Zemo was memorable.
"Dead school children is something we must be okay with." Oh, America, come on!
Care to elaborate so you are not misinterpreted?
Parental fetishization is a real thing in media. Because the people creating media are guilty parents who are terrified of rebellion from their kids. Authoritarian abuse starts in childhood & media desperately tries to sweep it under the rug.
That’s why I loved the episode Arch Angel in Black Mirror.
As much as i hate the “martha scene” i feel like devotion to a parental unit is misreading the situation. The way i read the scene is that up until his point batfleck has only been able to see superman as an alien, and when he is told that superman has a mother it humanizes him. Batfleck is able to see him as a person who CAN HAVE a mother, not just an alien
The problem I see with that interpretation is that Batman talks about Superman's parents earlier in that same scene. "I bet your parents taught you that you mean something, that you're here for a purpose". I don't see how Superman could suddenly become humanized in Batman's eyes for having a mother when Batman was just talking about him having parents.
@@vadalia3860 Think of what matters in that situation as ''mother in a threatening situation'', as he didn't empathize with Supes, he didn't emphatize with him having a family too. He was angry at him, and possibly thought that his parents were not different. And when the ''Martha'' scene happens, as Bruce has PTSD, his emotions and memories about the situation gets triggered , he always felt guilty of not being able to ''Save'' her and as Martha, his mother and the last word he heard in that situation makes him realize he was about to kill say, the little boy in the crime alley and let ''Martha'' die at the same time. Batfleck was pretty distant from his ''human'' side at this point as Robin died,and everything went to shit, he started killing people and this is the scene where he embodies the pain he felt, his fragile human side and realizes Clark is a human, as much as him in Crime Alley.
@@Atesjb But with that interpretation, Batman becomes a rabid dog who would have murdered an innocent man and fellow hero (term used loosely for Batman here) if only his mother had been named say... Helen... instead.
@@vadalia3860 We don't know what would happen, I personaly want to believe he would stop himself at one point. But well, he was off the rails and if he didn't get that he had a mother in danger his ptsd wouldn't have been triggered, hypothetically
Nah, Snyder said that during the scene Batman viewed himself as Joe Chill (The dude who killed his parents) and was disgusted with what he had become. It's not because he realized Supes had a mother.
I’m SO glad I waited for Father’s Day 2020 to watch this!
The reason why Thanos comes off as a likeable character even though he is the villain of the movie, is because the filmmakers treated him as the protagonist of the movie. They applied certain aspects of the "heroe's journey" on to Thanos. Infinity War begins with him finding an Infinity Stone and ends with him after he successfully wiped out half the universe. The last shot of the movie is him sitting on a hill and smiling into the sun ("I finally rest and watch the sun rise on a grateful universe"), he is happy and completely content with himself. I personally thought that was a great choice to create an interesting villain rather than the usual "punchy bad guy" you get in these blockbuster movies. It was also a great choice because its practical, since in the MCU all the main heroes are already more or less established characters so they don't need any further introductions unlike Thanos of whom we've only seen glimpses thus far.
"The story of a god like boy and the three adult men striving to be his daddy..." That line inspires so many images...
Fourth time watching this. Love it. Love how the Emperor being a "daaaddy" but not a "daddy" has aged. >D