Flying Drones Over Railroads - A Sheriff's Deputy Encounter
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.พ. 2020
- What do you do when law enforcement approaches you as you fly a drone? Here is an example for you to follow. It was bound to happen sometime! Do you think I educated him at all?
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Many commenters are citing the Causby Case from the 1940's. Here is what I found on the Causby Case. Nothing was actually determined when it comes to the "set height" of how much vertical space belongs to the property owner. He claimed 83 feet, but the final court ruling did not define it. They merely awarded him damages. So that case doesn't help our hurt either side today when it comes to drones.
"A New York Times headline crowed, “Chickens Upheld in Plane Decision.” The Causbys ultimately were awarded $1,060 for the decline in the value of their land, plus $375 for the dead poultry. Douglas’ opinion didn’t set any boundaries for how high a landowner’s airspace extended. “We need not determine at this time what those precise limits are,” he wrote.
Eventually, a consensus was reached in disputes between property owners and airports: Each case would be decided on the basis of what circumstances applied where the issue arose. But the exact parameters of Douglas’ “precise limits” were never established. That could be a problem for drone operators in the future. And it’s going to force them to grapple with constitutional law fashioned before the dawn of unmanned flight."
When it comes to the history of airspace rights, I have found this PDF to be very helpful in understanding the current rules, even if it is a few years old now. www.namic.org/pdf/drones/1703_privateairspace.pdf
@@5zero7RC That is a very interesting article. The insurance industry has the clout to make changes in the regulations. Wonder how they feel about Remote ID's proposed regulations and if they are going to pursue the 400' AGL as a "Class Drone" (my term) for the future.
This case did not define an exact height but it does put weight behind not flying below an owners tree line. I have always felt once you get into their tree space, you are in their space. But all air above all the land is governed by the faa. Tough call. Fly safe.
Sven MohaMad more like a police state...what it comes down to is whether you want to argue with the cop and then prove him wrong in court after you’ve been arrested or cited, OR be nice and then do your best to educate (them) so you reduce the chance of them messing with you later...(or be on their “bad side” because they ARE human and WILL hold grudges.)
But, taking into account your stated opinion, if you want to argue and get arrested, that is your prerogative.
There have been a lot more rules issued since 1940 and many to deal with irresponsible drone operations.
I have been approached by law enforcement twice while flying my drone. I had my 107 license and nicely laminated copy of my FAA registration ready. When presented to the officers they were surprised because they were unaware of such certifications and figured I was just some hobbyist flying my drone around to annoy people. Their attitude changed completely.
You learned the regs and tested out. Use that knowledge to educate. While you were polite - and nothing wrong with that you seemed very unsure of yourself. Everyone should prepare themselves for this. It's going to happen.
I am a newbie to this drone stuff, don't even have one yet. My plan is to just use it for "fun", so I don't really need the 107 license, but I have already decided, I am going to invest in the money and time to get it. There is an upcoming class at my local college called "Remote Pilot Certification" ($399.00 for 2 classes)..., not sure if I want to pay that much money. Do you have any suggestions on study material? Thanks
@@greenbeagle13 The online King Flight training for drones helped me alot. Plenty of sample questions and simulated tests. Got a 93 with no other formal training
@@mdubault Even though I live in New Zealand I'll check it out, many thanks from the Far North!
Thank you, I completely agree and think that you stated that very well.
If you are legit and doing your job right, then you should be able to quickly and effectively communicate that to them (with cert(s), registration, license, and knowledge) that you are indeed legit, and they should - if they are doing THEIR job right - respond accordingly. Sometimes they won't, but that doesn't mean you have done anything wrong. If a cop pulled you over and asked for your license to drive and you gave it to them, and then they said, "But are you sure you're allowed to be driving a car???" then that should be just as confusing as an LEO or anyone else for that matter not understanding that you are legit and they need to call the FAA to confirm your creds if they have some suspicion that you aren't legit, not continue to bother you or demand that you justify or explain yourself, once you have provided your documentation and clearly stated [and shown] that you are allowed to be doing what you are doing.
Awesome news
I had my first police encounter a few weeks ago and it was totally cool. Somebody had complained about gunshots in the area. Well there's a guy who lives back in the woods there who shoots his guns occasionally, which is totally legal - outside of city limits, etc. Anyway, the cop came by and asked me if I was the one who had reported the gunshots. I said no, I'm just flying my drone, I've heard the guy shooting before, no big deal. He said okay, then he asked, "Is that the Mavic Pro 2?" It turns out that he's a drone guy. I said no, it's a Mavic Pro Platinum. Cop said he has a Spark. We talked drones for a while. It was really great.
cool, I own the moon, it was over my property last night and "the property line is from the ground to infinity"
See you in jail.
Big deal. I own the sun every day at noon
I didn't know my property boundary went vertical either. I called United Airlines earlier and told them to stop flying their 737's over my house. They may be at cruising altitude by my property is my property.
No last night the moon was above my place. Its mine. Lmao
PS the sun too. lol
haha
I had a great encounter with law enforcement. 5 officers showed up, looked at my licence and flight authorization for the controlled airspace. Then sat and watched our tests.
I've been a law enforcement officer in Texas for the past 18 years and have flown my drone Recreationally for the past 5 years. Recently, I've decided to pursue a Part 107 license and I understand the State and FAA regulations so much more now because of it. I rarely receive drone related calls when I'm working, but my most recent call involved a male who flew his drone within the vicinity of a hospital. Someone freaked out when they saw it and reported it. I approached the guy and just asked to see his LAANC or FAA authorization to be flying and recording in Class B Airspace. He kindly showed me his LAANC Authorization on his phone and we just chatted drones for a couple of minutes. I could see that he was nervous, but I assured him that I did not observe any wrongdoing and he was not in trouble. He kept wanting to land his craft because he thought he was in trouble, but I encouraged him to continue flying. Based on my observations, I also did not suspect that he had malicious intents with his flight. I then left so he could be comfortable with flying.
When I first attempted to understand the Texas Statutes and FAA Regulations, I saw so many similarities, but I could not understand the context of the State Statutes. But after watching a video from an attorney, I realized that Texas Statutes govern capturing images with a drone and the FAA govern where you fly a drone.
You should go on a nationwide campaign to educate other officers! There are not enough like you yet!
Too bad he left still thinking everyone that owns property owns all the airspace above. Not good.
*We are living in an occupied country, if that was a Nice Transaction !!!* Have to lie about things that you know aren't correct, to be "Nice", and 😵😳🙍 not confront the Uniformed officer with Facts or your OPINION, Like neither count !!! Very DISHONEST And Cowardly "Transaction"
A teaching moment that slipped away...
Maybe go back to their office and educate them?
I thought this at first too, but I think that building a rapport with the officer was an important step. Keep in mind that LEO in a lot of cases aren’t up to speed and we want them on our side.
Railroad police are definitely interesting to deal with.
I thought that was true. It isnt?
Retired Deputy Sheriff here. Couple points:
1- You handled the contact very well. Confrontation always raises suspicion of many things when we deal with a subject. It never is a good idea period. It places the Officer in the position to investigate further ... it’s his duty in the interest of public safety and his and his department’s liability.
2- The RR Police should have done their own response as they have the property jurisdiction only. The Police would naturally perform the courtesy requested but would be on very shaky legal ground if something bad took place in the encounter.
3- The Deputy was operating on bad information he was advised by his department unfortunately. I mean if the notion that the property owner owns the airspace above his/their property, then how far would that extend? Could they then pursue legal ramifications against airlines and small craft? I mean seriously.... totally ludicrous.
Thank you for the clarification and updates though on the Homeland security info. I expected that would enter in at some point. Bottom line is it’s all a federal situation that seems to be unfolding as we watch.
Thanks for your LE perspective on this.
aviation.uslegal.com/ownership-of-airspace-over-property/
I believe that some judge ruled in a case that a person "owns" the airspace over their property up to 83 feet (it might be 84). Why that odd number you ask...well, apparently no one is sure where the judge got that number, but it's thought to have been considered the minimum safe flight altitude at the time. "The dividing line between the portion of the airspace in the public domain and the portion protected as an incident of land ownership against invasions by aircraft is the line delineated by the Federal Aviation Administration as the minimum safe altitude of flight."
Wait what ? Confrontation makes it probable cause. Lmfao
That really was Ludacris about the airspace up above.
LOL
@@dtho2790
I feel you. The law, it always amazes.
Common Sense should be a law.
Part of the value of your encounter will be the Officer’s experience. He now leaves the situation with an appreciation for the drone hobbyist as knowledgeable and courteous. Thanks for being an ambassador
You handled that well Russ. He was a really nice guy but he was a bit misinformed like many are. You are a great spokesperson and role model for the drone community. Thanks for sharing
You are supposed to be able to see the drone at all times 'line of sight'. He was breaking the law by operating inside his truck unable to see the drone. What would have happened when the telemetry failed who could he have hit and injured. Would he or another operator have taken responsibility or just driven off.
@@andyrbush You don't know that he couldn't see his drone from his truck. He landed it without getting out of the truck.
@@chipsawdust5816 Don't be silly.
Thank you so much for posting this! The legal information that you provided about what is permitted and what is not permitted was very helpful. However, far more important (in my judgment), was the way that you promoted thoughtful, respectful interaction with others. So often there is a tendency to be confrontational and aggressive when we are “right”. As you pointed out, “this type of interaction rarely ends well.” This is a great example for all us drone flyers. Keep up the great videos!
Super helpful to me Russ! I do Railfan videos and your approach with the officer was spot on. I can tell you interacting with local law enforcement, especially Railroad police, being polite goes a long way!
Great video Russ, you’re a true gentleman. Even the officer seemed to be a gentleman as well, which is always great to see law enforcement not being respectful in their approach. Thanks for sharing this interaction.
Way to take one for the team, Russ! I think I might print out some bullet points on basic drone laws to hand out to people I encounter when I'm flying.
Thanks for the video. Well done!
"Like rabid mothers looking after their young"... oh my days, nicely said! 😂
They are like a game warden on steroids.
I can attest to this. Lived by "the tracks" for 30yrs growing up. Dad had to call the RR once on some kids that put a metal rod across the tracks. I'd like to know how many traffic laws that RR officer broke getting to our location so quickly. He was 8-9 miles away at least.
Thank you for being polite and courteous to our law enforcement! We appreciate it for sure. Props to the deputy as well, it was a good interaction.
Great share, Russ. As always, thanks and keep up the great work!
"Be polite and don't get defensive." Those six words say it all. Thank you for showing how it's done! Peace.
A Hobbyist Photographer What these people want you to do is to be patronizing, since they think they are “large and in charge.” Let them feel that way, it’s no skin off of our noses.
Why?
Be polite and don't get defensive...really?
Is there a limit to that?? What if the cop
is crude and rude?? What if its some bullyboy
that wants to lord authority and hasn't the slightest
idea what they are talking about? And make no mistake
there are many of those out there in the leo ranks.
I say:
have your documentation.
Know your rights.
And be prepared to deal with it the way it comes.
@@zutrue Yes. The implied threat is....be polite and deferential to John Q. Law or we will detain you and take you for a ride you don't want to take. They have an expression for this - "you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride"
Police officers know that the very last thing a law-abiding citizen wants is to be arrested, thrown into a cruiser, hauled off to jail and booked in. We will do ANYTHING to avoid that and so they use that implied threat as an emotional cudgel to get their way. And you can see that attitude prevalent even here in this thread from all the self-acknowledged LEO's who congratulated him on the "correctness" of cowering before the police officer who was infringing upon his rights and who was completely ignorant of the law.
Far too many police officers are taught that what is to be obtained from EVERY encounter with EVERY citizen is compliance above all else. They can always find a statute to cover what they want to do. Even the ones that take great pains to tell us how enlightened they are.
I have had many similar encounters flying my drone, and that's the way to handle it. Be nice, respectful, and leave even if your abiding all the laws. Of course if you're doing a commercial job, and you're legal, then it's time to argue.
Russ you handled that so well! Enjoyed watching this interaction and seeing how to handle a situation like this. Thanks!
Thanks for being so professional and educating the officer at the same time.
how about carrying a written page with the FAA rules on flying, I do carry this for photography
Great idea, Hugh!
Gonna have to at this point....
I have a printed sectional chart with me. You can get them for under $10 on Amazon. You could also show the FAA B4Ufly app which should indicate if you're good to go. Any other legal documents about jurisdiction, air space and all that is good as well.
Drone U has a "drone advocacy kit" Which has a lot of this stuff in a PDF. We can all download it for free and print it to keep with us for situations like this. They actually have this kit available on its own website but they're currently utilizing that website for the FAA NPRM issue so I guess you need to go to the main website and search for the advocacy kit.
@@souocara38able I do useboth airmap and b4ufly
@@onlyonestinger I am only going on all the bullshit photographers get when filming or photographing from a public space, what the police, and most of them are like this, do not know you can photograph or video ANYTHING visible from a public space, Period, You do not have to answer any questions, give your name ID or anything else if not suspected of any any offense, and once these POLICE are educated they immediately back, Usually have to call for a supervisor, BTW photography or video from a Public sidewalk of similar space, everything including people can be shot, Look it up, written by many attorneys who specialize in this stuff. I do not know of one street photographer and know many who ever gets a waiver. however some ask if a photo can be taken, sometimes, the reason for carrying information on all this stuff is it shows whoever may stop you that you know what you are talking about!! by getting a 107 FAA certificate it makes you learn what is ok and what is not, B4ufly and Airmap has everything there depending on the airspace, I live in Class D airspace, but not far outside its is Class G,
I have seen a Ken Heron video where he explained that you can fly in uncontrolled airspace and only the FAA has jurisdiction over it. However, you cannot take off or land in private property.
Actually, it's the same on a National Park, you can fly as long as you take off and land from outside.
Oh Interesting to know...
Actually there is a caveat “while not disturbing the wildlife”. Let’s say you are flying over a National Park (while standing outside their boundary) and chasing deer (or some other wildlife) with your drone. They absolutely do have the right to have you arrested. Be careful and be respectful. And anyone thinking of getting whale footage here in Hawaii be aware there is a 1,000 ft msl restriction - effectively preventing any drone flight overhead. Waivers can be applied for scientific purposes. Aloha.
@@punapirate That is a VERY valid point. You CAN fly OVER a National Park, State Park or Local Park like any aircraft can but, as you point out, do it at a height that meets the definition of non-harassment for wildlife while staying under 400' AGL. Thanks for your input.
~G.Alan Fink
www.flickr.com/photos/187044155@N02/
Bingo, hence rail roads are private property.
SURE YOU CAN. You just can't trespass. If you have the property owner's permission to operate a drone from his or her property, you are good to go.
Glad you posted this. Also glad you ended up with a super understanding and helpful Sheriff. Sure he still thinks the property line goes vertical...but hey, no frivolous ticket to fight...
Anxious to watch the follow-up video, Russ.
🍿
Great edit, by the way.
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Nicely done. 👍
Thanks for the help bud!
Ken Heron in the house that's what's up
Huh and hi
Handled that very well Russ. Good knowledge about flying over trains. Good stuff as always. Thanks for sharing your experience Russ 👊
Awesome Russ!! Very informative! Thanks for sharing!!
Hey man. Very informative. Just kinda a side note... CSX, CN, CP, BNSF and other major railroads are starting to do trial runs of utilizing drones to inspect trackage and equipment. I say this as a former railroader and current drone pilot. They haven’t established drone Ops yet, but might not hurt to keep an eye in the air. I’ve seen CSX and Vermont Rail use drones in my area for hard to access inspections. Happy flying!
Yes they are doing those flight in accordance with the TSA and DHS. It is part of their infrastructure security and safety efforts.
They not doing just trial runs. BNSF has an SUAV department. I did two years worth of construction progress at a big BNSF yard. I had to be initially cleared by their department to fly the missions (credentials check, insurance etc). In fact they offered to help me get my any airspace clearances but we did not need them. After that I had to call the BNSF police every time I flew a mission. Never had a problem but of course this was all done by the book.
I live in Vermont. Do you have locations that their doing this at. Glad you posted this info.
Don Hurst they’re running them on the trackage they own in Northern NY near Ogdensburg. Not sure where in VT they’re using them
@@Nightfire_Gaming81 Thanks
I had the same encounter you had twice. My entire channel is dedicated to railroads. The critical areas that are mentioned where you should not fly is mainly industrial parks. In my case, there was a propane distribution facility that receives tank cars every 3 days. I was not aware of the facility being what it was, I wasnt flying over it, I was flying next to it and I launched and landed on a public right-of-way and at no time was I on their property. Regardless, their security force was watching me and called the Homeland Security office that was assigned to monitor that area. They in turn approached me. They werent rude, they were mainly there to make sure I wasnt there to cause harm. I explained to both officers that I was trying to film Amtrak coming through a long sweeping curve and going under an overpass. I offered to show them the footage I already obtained with other passing trains and they declined to watch. I brought the drone down to show them that its a video/photography DJI drone and I wasnt carrying explosives. They were appreciative that I did that but then I asked them why. Their answer was simply, "leave now or we will call the local sheriff and have you arrested" I didnt want to push it any further and frankly, I already got what I wanted, so I packed up and left quietly.
The other incident occurred at a CSX railroad yard in Florida. This was my go-to place for years, the yard master knows who I am, he was aware of my youtube channel and he never had a problem. in fact, 1 day he handed me a printout of what trains were excepted to come by for the day and basically said "have fun". Well, 1 Sunday came along and I wanted to grab some footage with my drone at the southend of the were a grain train was preparing to depart. The conductor saw my drone and gave me a thumbs up, asked me what kind, I told him its a DJI Mavic Pro. he said cool, are you filming us? I said yes, he said ok. Can I get a copy of your video as Im also into trains. I gave him a thumbs up. 15 minutes later, his engineer gets on the radio and calls the dispatcher, hey! there is a guy flying a drone out here, call the police. I left when I heard that seeing I wasnt in the mood to deal with a CSX officer. I had caught up with the same conductor later on down the tracks and he apologized to me on behalf of the engineer. But he did tell me that railroad officials have asked train crews to call the dispatcher if a drone is spotted. I didnt challenge him, he was being nice to me and in return, I just took it for face value. bottom line, if you want to film railroads at a yard, just ask. if they say yes, great! if no, say thank you and move on. Just pick a spot where you can quietly do your thing and move on..
A perfect example is the 50 foot easement for the railroad. You cannot encroach that easement without getting some pushback from the railroad. But they need to understand unless there is active rail traffic at that time they do not "own" the airspace over the rail. If you crash your drone on the easement though and retrieve it they can claim tresspass. So you can see it becomes a real can of worms depending on location and the activity at the time. If your flying your drone in class G airspace that airspace is uncontrolled by anyone including the railroad from the ground to the lowest level of class E airspace. Best advice is to back off 100 yards from the rail line and get shots from the periphery. Flying directly over rail traffic is the part that will get you in hot water.
It's always best to film from outside the train yards because they are VERY dangerous. I've worked a couple of fatalities in train yards where school kids were cutting accross tracks as a short cut. There was a long long train backing up and with the other noise the children didn't hear the cars rolling toward them and got run over and killed. Switching yards are extremely dangerous.
Well done, Russ! Thank you for providing this valuable video!
Super cool video thanks for sharing. We all want to keep flying and do it the right way 👍🚁
Thanks for this, and for having the presence of mind to turn on the camera. If it is convenient, can you post the sources you used to research the regulations you discussed in the video?
I really wanted to see you in a high speed police chase, that would have been exciting. We would’ve set up a Go-fund drive for your bail. 😂 Thanks for the information and the video.
ZERUS1648 opportunity to really check out active track 😂😂😂
Lol! It would be a million views video!
@@51Drones
No doubt a million views.
One thing about owning the airspace above. Ahhhhh
Please do not say the word tax. Shhhhh
Funny funny funny
This is why I’m so glad I purchased the Mavic over the phantom. People really don’t go crazy about it since it’s a smaller drone. Great job handling this situation.
Great lesson Russ, thank you for sharing your experience.
Is there a quick sheet that show the FAA's regulations that allows you to fly over someone else's property i.e.e railroad tracks etc so you can show anyone who complains?
LMAO!! Love the comment about Railroad Police. I'm retired Law Enforcement. The Railroad Cops do take things seriously, to the point that we often tease them when their teaching recruit classes at the Oregon Police Academy. I also like that your not Cop Bashing!! I always tell people to keep in mind that 99% of Cops out there, don't enjoy telling peeps that they cannot fly there drones, or any recreational activity for that point. They'd rather be flying drones too. Lol. I know I enjoy flying my new drone and can't get enough of it!! Even though I'm a Drone Rookie and crash often. Stay safe!!
David Walters good point. The RR police have a long and tortured history fraught with murder, torture and union busting at the behest of their corporate masters. Watch the films Boxcar Bertha and Emperor of the North Pole for a Hollywood enactment.
Anyone who states they haven't crashed their first drone is either a liar or hasn't flown it yet.
Hmm in Wisconsin i used to jog along the tracks and bike even...i never encountered any hassles. I think out West the police are just too bored
@@galanfink4028 I've been flying a phantom 3 for 2 years and the only damage it's sustained was one of the remote antennas broke after being folded and unfolded so many times. Granted, my first "drone" was a 4 channel Chinook model, but still. Proper procedure and awareness is everything.
I actually had an officer stop and talk to me when I was flying in a park that had a no drone rule. It was a county park and the rule is buried deep inside a pdf that wasn't easy to find but still I thought I was going to get at minimum a reprimand. It went totally the other way, he said "isn't this a great place to fly" then proceeded to tell me about the drone they have and just upgraded to! I am aware that I could legally fly over the park but conducting operations from within the park isn't permitted... of course it was a cold day, nobody was there and totally not bothering anyone or causing a safety concern. I have yet to have any bad encounters with the law, only place I get a hard time is from people on social media that think all drones are spying on their property. I see posts like "don't fly that over my house or I"ll shoot it down" quite regularly. In a nice turn though the local historic preservation society asked if they could use several of my images in their archive to which I agreed and the mayor's brother just got a drone and asked if I could give him some photography lessons/tips.
Thank you for clarifying the Train itself and the diff from the tracks and train!
I have had an encounter like this myself, and I know the feeling of "resisting to argue" when you know the officer is 100% wrong. Thanks for the VALUABLE information about flying over trains. That is news to me as well. Had no Idea they were considered infrastructure and governed by homeland security. Great video, Russ! LESSON: Always keep that camera rolling!
Ask to attend their morning briefing and give a little talk.
Citations please regarding the prohibition of flying over stationary trains.
Is that not the case?
@@SunriseWaterMedia Ya I've never heard that either and even searching can't find anything about that.
How's it any different than standing on an overpass over a track/train to take pic's?
@@Wildfire86872 Don't start using logic on the government. It never ends well. 😉
A Great video Russ and I totally agree with you on how to handle this situation.👍👍
Great information Russ. In a related note, I was teaching a drone safety class and a guy familiar with the railroad industry warned that there is a lot of tech on trains now that can interfere with drone frequencies. He warned to stay at a distance to safeguard your drone.
A reminder (I think you probably know this) ... while the FAA has authority on what goes on in airspace, property owners may still control what goes on in LZ's. So, for example, if you had launched/landed w/i BNSF property, BNFS could rightfully get upset (assuming some notice has been provided, especially if the area is otherwise accessible to the general public). In the event some property owner cares to have the airspace above the property restricted in some manner, it is then up to said owner to make the appropriate application to the FAA to establish the restriction ... which will then show up on a LAANC platform such as AirMap.
Noting too that, just because it doesn't show up on LAANC mapping doesn't mean it doesn't exist - it just might have to be updated. Always check with the RR before flying so they know you're there and not a threat to security.
@@galanfink4028 This is good advice ... Let's hope the RR has a working contact portal - it just might have to be updated.
Unless you are a government agency good luck getting your lands airspace restricted, it just will not happen.
The FAA doesn't issue such restrictions like candy. You have to provide something more substantial then "I don't like drones overflying my property." In general, if you can't demonstrate a legitimate safety or national security interest in restricting your airspace from drone activity, you won't get it.
@@chuckschillingvideos Exactly.
Homeland Security has what's called VIPR teams (Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response teams), you don't want to mess with them either.
Nice work on this. Thanks for bringing to us.☺☺👍👍
You came across calmly and handled the situation very well. Have always found,being polite really works.
Much better way to handle it than "I know my rights!" which always goes over well....:P I think the only thing I'd have done differently would have been to (after first acknowledging that you will comply with his instructions, as you did), spend a little more time actually encouraging him to get more information regarding the common misconception that "your property rights extend vertically, etc" and that only the FAA has jurisdiction to determine that constraint - and hopefully create more of an actionable education motive for him in the process. You were clearly erring on the side of an abundance of caution which is certainly preferable to being argumentative. Anyway, kudos to you for setting a good example for the hobby community!
Yea so the officer gets the misinformation reinforced and keeps breaking the law. I agree to be polite, but just because a police officer has a badge doesn't mean that you must follow his unlawful orders.
Dam right never goes well. Cops above the law. Hes lucky hes alive..
Russ, you are an ambassador for the drone community and an ambassador for how to treat people with respect and decency. The officer was a thoroughly nice bloke as well, and a credit to the sheriffs department.Thank you and best wishes to you and your family.
Thanks for sharing this video and keep bringing more great videos.
Well done!!! you are a cool guy Russ, and well documented, cheers.
Good video. I have BNSF tracks behind my house and I'm overflying this literally every week.
You're the only guy on TH-cam who knows to light his face under a baseball cap
You handled this exactly like I would have. Sensible and respectful. Despite the officer having the incorrect information.
How you would have =/= it being good...
Thanks for this vid. Loved it. I've been fly'n a few years and abide by the FAA requirements and have been approached a handful of times. I have handled it as you suggested and the interactions were positive. I always offer for them to fly it, but no takers to this point, but they always smile. Thanks again.
I fly at that train bridge all the time! I’m glad my understanding was on par with yours.
What about flying over Interstates, I have been trying to find out information on this but what I did find isn't clear. For now I follow along the side filming from and angle.
The key word is "vehicles". You can fly over pavement but not loiter or fly over moving vehicles. It sounds like you are using a good technique already. Best practical advice is transit quickly when there's no traffic and don't fly abreast or above where your drone will be a distraction to drivers.
Same here. Where I live there are 3 interstates and numerous other major highways. I've never crossed them. I've heard it's OK to, but, I don't. One scenrio that has played in my mind is a bird strike that brings my drone falling to the pavement of the highway and someone over reacts and wrecks. Don't need that on my concious.
Good question, I live in west TX right on IH-10. Most of my flying will be off of exits and parking areas off of the interstates.. I'd be doing the same as you flying off to the sides. But yea I would like to know the rules in case k decide to fly over the E & W bound lanes! Not that I'd be flying like 20ft over but still
As a commercial pilot I can’t count the airports commercial and local airports that have railroad tracks running at the end of the runway on on one end or both. There are rules you go by and this case it is a moot point if you are in the landing or takeoff pattern. Aerial charts dictate your altitude in uncontrolled airspace. (500’) in uncontrollable airspace and (1000’) in yellow heavy populations. Just thought I would throw that in the mix. But due to the not so responsible drone operators we have restrictions imposed on us that punish the operators that want to do the (right thing). It is like gun laws. The gun owner that is responsible get punished by the not so responsible owner.
I guess that law has two parts. One is about drones, one is about spying and privacy. It's somewhat against common sense to fly drone above someones house in order to take photos through his windows etc. I never studied if I can take video footage of random people, because I'm sure I can't install security camera observing public places, but on the other hand I likely can take video footage or photos of random people by camera or phone. And as far I know it's illegal to use dash cam in a car in Austria due to privacy reasons (yes, it's weird)
I'm a railroad guy & I have a Mavic Pro. I have learned a lot from ya & I appreciate the videos educating & letting people know the rules. I have done several videos over the tracks here in NC and I have never been approached by LE. Thanks so much 51!!
Once again, thanks for the awesome videos. This was definitely an educational one for me
I had an interesting interaction with union pacific and their "big boy" I met several of their officers... your Information is accurate. being polite is number one rule. I had called the local LEO's to get their blessing first. I will not identify them, but first words from them was "damn railroads think they own everything" . Also they technically own 25 feet on either side. I understand that in some states it's 50.
You did look suspicious flying in a car honestly. I always fly my drone outside my car.
Great information as always. Thanks Russ!
Great applause in how you handled the event!!!
Keep a copy of airspace rules and chart to educate yourself and LEOs.
I would have shown him my 107 license and the b4ufly app that shows you are in a permitted area.
Very timely Russ. There is a section of tracks I have been wanting to film. I will do so with care!
1 year later this is a great video. Thank you for your knowledge.
I called the FAA's drone zone about this. I was informed that a person CAN fly over tracks and trains. I was told that the FAA isn't too concerned with trains. They also couldn't tell me whether railroad property in general is considered infrastructure. Can you identify the policy prohibiting flying around trains? I haven't been able to locate any law defining a train or railroad tracks as infrastructure EXCEPT Texas law, Government Code Sec. 423.0045(1-a)A(viii) which states, "a port, railroad switching yard, trucking terminal, or other freight transportation facility". That doesn't indicate the train or track itself. Check your local laws. Texas drone law falls under Government Code Sec. 423.
Regulations are based on practical safety concerns. Small UAS pose no risk to trains. Flying low over are traffic is an example of high risk to drivers being distracted by the sight of a drone.
The part about trains is a bit vague but falls under developing guidelines by the TSA and DHS regarding safety of "critical infrastructure" which trains fall under. Understand this is a grey area so interpretation for this can vary wildly depending on who you are. But the best way to think about this is you cant fly over other critical infrastructure sites such as power, electrical etc. So just avoid flying directly over or within close proximity of a train or locations where multiple trains can be located such as junctions, rail yards or service locations. Back off 100 yards and film from a distance away from the easement and a safe distance from the train.
@@DoomerONE
I understand your outlook on this aspect of the situation and especially when you're flying loner aircraft you don't want it impounded.
My question though is what do you do when you are at a job site and Mr. Policeman comes up and says you can't fly here. Are you going to be so nice and just go away, try to work it out with your customer somehow? Or are you going to stand your ground and say look Mr. Officer I know all about this, I've studied it a lot, I have a pilot certificate and I'm good to go. I'm happy to show you my pilot certificate, the FAA sectional chart for this area and some other online documents indicating that I'm allowed to fly here.
I have a contract and I'm going to do my job...
And by the way, he should have stopped interfering with you until you got the thing landed...
I do know its strickly illegal to be on any rr tracks even dead ones for photoshoot it might have something to do with rr tracks cover different states but the rr will go after u if they see u Airspace is different I believe
I had a BNSF police officer at my door because a anonymous person on FB reported me to BNSF Police because of my drone video of trains over the railroad yard where i live. He told me it's illegal for fly over Railroad property and it's trespassing. I kept telling him i spent hours and hours researching drone regs and laws and there's nothing i could find about flying over railroads. So after that I spent countless hours for a week researching and coming up empty even in a discussion forum talking to others. Now BNSF, CP, and UP has a page on their websites saying it's illegal to fly over their properties. And yet where is the FAA rule or law on that? The officer could not tell me what law it was either.
I saw a youtube video of trains from a drone, the guy was flying over a big UP yard in California and the department of homeland security found him and told him he can't fly over the railroad yard or property. That is scary that the DHS is guarding the RR yards now. I never heard of that. hopefully not around here in KS. I want to fly close to the big yards in KC and get some shots but haven't gotten around to it in awhile.
And in time Amazon is gonna be flyin over everything and everyone without heavy restriction...money rules...
So true mate
Nope, I'm gonna pop every Amazon drone that flies in my airspace and call the cops on them until the FAA makes it abundantly clear to every law enforcement agency that airspace above people's property is fair game.
@@JS-qi1ou All we would need is a few of their heavy and powerful unmanned machines flying out of line of site to crash into an object or worse a person and the resulting court case will knock that idea on the head. It's all about control with low flying small drones, what we need is a lobbying group similar to the NRA to hound the authorities till they stop pandering to the moaners...
Very educational. Thank you 4 sharing!
It's always best to keep a level head and bring the drone down first and foremost!! You did a great job handling that situation and the officer for being very nice and cordial to you. Makes the situation much easier to get through. I have yet to have this type of conversation. I hope I can keep a cool head lol. Great to see this type of video. Keep them coming!!
Isn't it amazing how no one is too concerned about those satellites up there in space looking down on them 24/7 with live video feed. Matter of fact, some cars are being honed in on in the name of "safety"...
Anything in public is open game as far as cameras are concerned.
There's cameras ALL over the place.
The public has a more legitimate concern about them being recorded than the government does...
Isn't anxiety wonderful.
Its because of anxiety we are all at this point with being over regulated.......
Can I walk across railroad tracks while video recording?
Can I drive across railroad tracks while video recording?
Can I drive across railroad tracks while using a dashcam?
In general, you may not trespass on railroad owned property.
You may drive across the tracks at grade crossings only.
Railroads worry about trespassers because there is a chance of the trespasser being struck by a train.
This is a fact. The RR cop gave a local citizen a 2 hundred dollar ticket for crossing RR tracks where there is no crossing. They are arrogant sob's in this town now.
Had a RR officer tell me that they own 500' on both side of the tracks. He didn't have an reply when I told him to start making my mortgage payment then, because I live 235' from the tracks. I've never had much of an issue with any kind of law enforcement before, I have family that are LEOs, and I'm always respectful to them, but that RR guy was the most arrogant, uneducated officer that I've ever encountered. The encounter wasn't about a drone, I was just sitting in my back yard watching the trains go by and shooting some photos of them. I was clearly on my property, probably 75' from the fence that the RR put up, at my fire pit. I guess they don't like people shooting pictures of trains. lol
@@rich500Yeah, it's called trespassing. Thing is if someone is trespassing and gets hit/killed by a train, a lot of times they/their family will try and sue the railroad as dumb as that sounds. That's why they are pricks about it.
@@scootterpootter The original charter the RRs got was ..."for the public good... encouraging migration west, Have not seen a change in their charter yet.
Great attitude from both you and the law enforcement officer. Yay for humans.
I am a commercial licensed drone pilot too. Your approach and advice is professional.
Attitude is the answer, and you have it. Thank you for your comprehensive coverage of this subject.
I have 40 years associated with criminal defense. I am not an attorney, for the record.
I’ve talked to csx and they don’t care as long as I stay away from the moving trains they even let me take off on there property
I guess it all depends on who you talk to at the railroad some guys are nice some guys are not.
*I have had quite a few interactions with LE here in Columbus, Ohio and seem to have very similar experiences as you did! Infact mist admit to not know what the drone laws are and often agree I probably know more than them when it comes to drones! I will say when someone wants to debate me on Whether a drone is or isnt allow over private property I always mention google streets, and google maps they are the reason we cant stand naked at a window facing public property and assume privacy! Its true as long as the photographer is on public property and can see inside a house window from said spot they are standing they can take and use the photo as they wish!!!!!! this includes drones but also taking it a step further like you said in the video FAA is still the only Entitey that can govern the airspace from 3 ft upwards so if you have a problem with that you should thank our technology not the person loving said tech! loeved you video!*
Great job. You were polite, the officer was professional, perfect encounter.
Thanks Russ this was very informative and a video that needed to be put out Russ thanks so much
Thanks Russ, very informative. But could you please reference the actual regulation numbers. I would like give law enforcement actual government material, rather than tell him that I heard it from a TH-camr.
Just yesterday, 2/13/2020, I was flying my Spark near a UP railroad interchange. A UP railroad police officer approached me. I was camped out on my truck tailgate on the side of the road. He asked about my drone, said he wasn't familiar with it and that he flew a Mavic 2 Enterprise on occasion. Very polite, he was. But! He did asked to see my ID, and took a picture of it. "Just as a pre-caution" he said. I'm not licensed just yet (need about 3 more weeks) so I was fawningly polite. At the same time , I was not sure about the flying over railroad tracks rules. So I didn't. Just kept my drone to the side of the tracks. But I know what you mean. Very un-nerving. That was also my 1st encounter with any type of law enforcement while flying my drone.
I wonder what he would have done had you not given up your ID? The Supreme Court has ruled time and again that people are not required to carry an ID with them, as "papers" are not required in the United States. Not trying to be a jerk, I've just read a lot of comments here about people being told to show their IDs. I had RR officer approach me in my backyard and tell me to show my ID for photographing the trains as they roll past my property. That didn't happen, no way was I going to show some random guy my ID, when I was not on RR property. lol
@@scootterpootter didn't want to miss dinner that night, so I didn't argue with him. As a peace officer in Texas, they can detain you for any reason for up to 48 hours, without charging you with anything.
@@BMacksAerialVisuals WRONG. Research Turner vs. Driver. There is no such thing as a state or local municipality being able to suspend the fourth amendment or any other part of the constitution for their own desires. If they were to arrest you, they would lose qualified immunity based upon the ruling in Turner vs. Driver (for Texas and its US District Court jurisdiction only) and you could personally sue any of the officers involved in said arrest. Them, not the department, not the police union, the actual person performing the arrest. Still won't get you home in time for dinner, but don't give up your rights or we'll havenone left.
Great video, you handled that extremely well
Thanks for the info, love the channel and the content!
I'm Black. The cops would never treat me with respect like that. Sadly I'd have to be worried about being shot because my remote is dark and would've been in my hands when he approached me.
I’m black and never had an issue with cops.
Cop is making stuff up. He admits he doesn’t know anything.... and what he thinks he does know is wrong.
Rickinvegas typical police just obey even unlawful actions or risk death
ThatGuyScott... yes, I’m not advocating being a jerk or combative to a cop in this situation but I do advocate standing up to law-enforcement who is overstepping their bounds. And they do it all the time. One of his first questions, if I remember correctly, was “where do you live?”. Well sir, it’s really none of your business where I live. My first question to law-enforcement is “why are you talking to me?“ This Police Officer outright admitted that he didn’t know the law. 51, I appreciate and thank you for posting this but if this was me that is where the conversation would have ended. “Thank you sir, have a nice day” followed by a friendly wave
@@Rickinvegas sorry rick...i dont agree 100%...i think 51's approach was the smootther way to get out of a shaky situation. In the longrun it doesn't help to fight the law..
There's far to much at stake for a wonderful hobby/job perspective, for all of us out there trying to use OUR (everyones) airspace responsibly.
So that all grounded pilots can continue making airtime.
Statement from a total quad nubee outa germany.
Greetings to everyone, and hard feelings to no one...
Rickinvegas Rick, I see your drift, but wonder about causing needless rift! Yes, law enforcement sometimes talk fast & loose, but I like Russ’ tack of using courtesy and respect in spite of. I think he showed us a good example here. Cheers brother. And great video, Russ! 💛😊
Rickinvegas knowing rights isn’t being a jerk... they aren’t god you shouldn’t think of them as masters
Thank you for sharing!
Wow, thank you for this...admittedly, I have flown around and above trains, making sure to maintain a safe distance from the train itself itself but I had no idea. I will observe those rules from now on. Always good and informative from you!
Thanks for sharing! I know you had to play nice with that guy, because you felt intimidated. A property owner doesn’t control the air space “vertically” over his property. That’s one of the myths going around. What I tell people is that if a helicopter can fly over, so can I. The national airspace is not subject to property owners unless there is a TFR. This is another reason why you don’t want to let people and police see you flying, because they are mostly ignorant and will create a distraction. If I am approached, I let people know that I’m not going to talk until I safely land, so they understand I’m focused on safety.
At the same time, I know it’s not smart to argue with an ignorant person with a gun. As a part 107 African American remote pilot, I’m sensitive to the possibility that ignorance of rules regarding drones might not be the only ignorance I’m dealing with. (BTW: I scored 98% on my part 107 recurrent test last August)
Agree 100%. Especially the part about landing safely first before talking.
Bryan Dooley Yes, and that way I can finish what I was legally doing before I got interrupted! :-)
@@VisionCommunications The part about not arguing with an ignorant person with a gun made me laugh out loud. I truly hope you don't have to deal with that other type of ignorance. That is something that I have not had to deal with. I feel that the younger generation has helped to move us in the right direction in that regard but we still have a long way to go.
BTW, I scored the same on my test. Congrats on the good job!
Bryan Dooley When I come on site to do a job, I’m scanning the landscape as much as I am scanning my airspace for possible hazards for the flight. I’m looking to avoid people, security cameras, professional law-enforcement (whom I respect), private security, and mall cop types.
Personally, I think that you should have educated him on the rules especially as you are licenced. You have way more knowledge on the rules and have now in my opinion made it hard for anyone else to fly there quite legitimately. I respect your attitude but I don't think that caving in helps anyone.
*We are living in an occupied country, if that was a Nice Transaction !!!* Have to lie about things that you know aren't correct, to be "Nice", and 😵😳🙍 not confront the Uniformed officer with Facts or your OPINION, Like neither count !!! Very DISHONEST And Cowardly "Transaction"
Thanks for that info, I live a block from very busy tracks.. I will have to stay away from the tracks in the future.
Hi Russ...This was a great video. I am a retired LEO so this was very informative. The Officer handled himself professional and friendly as you did also. I learned a lot here about the trains, etc. They only the Officer should let you have landed before continuing to talk to you. Excellent video buddy. Love your videos.
You should have given out your card, that way he can see just how informed you really are. I'm ALWAYS learning something new from you... Thank you for what you do!
That was an awesome sheriff there, thanks for the RR info
Well presented, you kept your cool under tough conditions
Really well handled and I totally agree... that's exactly the approach I would use too. A huge part of it is not getting off on the wrong foot. The cop was actually a really decent guy too and freely admitted that he wasn't fully up on the restrictions. Huge respect to him for that.
Very nice education. 👍 Thanks Russ!
I love this! Thank you for making these kind of videos. It helps so much.
Good explanation. There are a lot of railroads that have had issues with railfans getting too close to the tracks or trespassing where it is posted. Some people don't follow the rules and mess things up for responsible observers. Don't have a drone yet, but in the works. Learning quite a bit from you, thanks for what you do.
Know many that record train movement from drones and always stay off to the side from a distance. It's best to be friendly with the crews, sometimes they give you a heads up on where you can get the good shots.
You handled the situation like a professional. And yes, I think he might go and research a bit more on what you explained to him about the FAA owning all of the airspace above in the USA. Great video. Thanks for sharing these lessons with us.