Anyone who loves Jesus Christ would NEVER participate in the mass punishment those recruits engaged in. This is the same as doing this to Jesus himself !!! I would rather flat out refuse to do this torture to someone.
Their behavior was EVIL and DISGUSTING, PERIOD !!!! "Love your neighbor as yourself, for love does no harm to his neighbor; in so doing you have FULFILLED THE HOLE LAW' !!! and Jesus said, "What you do to others you have also likewise done it unto me" (!!!!!!)
Their behavior was disgusting and wicked. "Love your neighbor as yourself for love works no evil against his neighbor, in so doing you have fulfilled the whole law" (Romans 13:9-10). Jesus also said, "What you do to others you have likewise also done it unto me."
@@robertmckinley2886 I respect your beliefs, however, the point is making soldiers and marines who are capable of defending your God given right to believe the way you do by killing other people and breaking their things. Nothing about war or battle is supposed to be tempered by morality. The problem is not the military and its methods of converting normal humans into warriors capable of meeting and enemy and defeat him but also willing to sacrifice their life to do so, the problem is helping them deal with it or turning it off afterwards when the soldier leaves service. Maybe the lord can heal the heart afterward. One could hope.
I enlisted in 1987, three months after the release of this movie. Every recruit must have seen this movie, as I did before enlisting. The blanket parties were off the wall. By the way, it is considered blasphemous to call a Marine a "soldier."
@@robzilla730 I have heard of it. I am a proponent of respect is earned myself. I am not into participation awards. Just showing up isn't enough to earn anyone any brownie points with me. Above and beyond is a nice start as far as I'm concerned.
My view of the jelly doughnut scene is that Hartman wasn't punishing Pyle for stealing, he was punishing him for getting caught. For drawing attention by not locking his footlocker. Not only is he training them for combat but also for the possibility that they become prisoners of war where it might be necessary to steal food and getting caught could lead to every prisoner being searched.
Having been through Army boot camp I can tell you that the methods and logic of drill sergeants/drill instructors aren't complicated and haven't changed much over the years. Nowadays they can't physically strike a recruit or overly demean them, but things like smoking the entire group for one guy's mistakes are still very much a core tenet of training doctrine. You punish the group for one's mistakes so that everybody learns the price of "slipping up" when it matters, not just the one. And if somebody leaves their locker unlocked, it's getting absolutely trashed to teach the recruit the importance of securing not just his personal belongings, but the expensive equipment he will soon be entrusted with. You trash their locker so that way they learn to be more careful before they're given a set of night vision goggles worth ten grand, or to secure their potentially classified documents. What good is a guard who can't remember to lock a door?
My absolute favorite branch of the Military is the Air Force, of which I always wanted to be a part of since I was little. Even the Air Force Military Training Instructors are strict with their recruits. When I was growing up, I would feel tears when I heard Drill Seargeants, Drill Instructors, and Military Training Instructors yell at their recruits from movies such as this one. But I understand why these individuals need to be yelling, and throwing insults: to toughen up the recruits for war. No one cannot scatter fuzzy-wuzzy, feel-good, huggy-wuggy, unicorns and rainbows, sunshine and lollipops on the warfront. War is ugly. There is no sunshine and lollipops, fuzzy-wuzzy feel good, unicorns and rainbows during war battle. And do these Drill Seargeants, Drill Instructors and Military Training Instructors cry? Absolutely NOT.
In that BUD/S class 234 documentary, the Chief Seal Instructor punished two guys for having candy where they weren't supposed to, and I remember it did feel more like he wasn't really mad, but still made them do a couple hundred push-ups. It felt like the Seal community has the same mentality regarding getting caught.
It wasn't really discussed until years later, but the scenes with Pyle are referencing "McNamara's Morons". When the US government wanting to increase the draft, they lowered the standards and let in people who were too low IQ or mentally unfit for service. This program had disastrous results, these soldiers were 3-5 times more likely to be killed or seriously injured in combat.
@@Oliver0200 October 1st 1966: Google for McNamara's Folly, or McNamara's Morons. Not only did these unsuitable draftees die disproportionately, so did members of their squads and platoons. War had changed since the Revolutionary and Civil wars, it needed thinking men - all the way down.
I was low IQ and labeled border line retarded. They let me in and I was asked how the hell did I get past meps and basic training. They were nice and actually helped me grow mentally and now I can reid and right beter than ever.
The point being...not everybody has what it takes, physically, mentally, spiritually to be a Marine. Trying to force it...is bad for both sides in terms of wasted time, effort and, resources. Pyle should have been washed out but, Hartman's pride was both their undoing. The concept of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole exists for a very sound reason.
Yes, exactly. That is the reason that our modern military is volunteer and all parties involved agree that this is far superior to drafting and general enlistment.
@@cyberpimp29 I have mixed feelings about the draft. On the one hand, yes - I agree. A volunteer military is going to be a better trained one, I would think. But on the other hand, it seems to me that if a country is determined - after exhausting every other possibility - that war is the only way forward, then everyone should be involved in some way. If not fit for a Marine or Navy or whatever - let them do whatever they can. I still remember Bush, Jr. telling everyone to go on that vacation, buy that new car - he even lowered taxes! And it became very easy for the public to ignore the cost of those wars - personal, and financial. We might have not had the mess we've had, if we had used conscription. Iraq and Afghanistan might have ended as Vietnam did. Just a thought.
@@curiousworld7912 appreciate the thoughts, but cannot agree. In a Republic with citizens that all have equal rights under the law, the draft is abhorrent. If a war is so unpopular that you cant find enough volunteers to wage it, then the war should not happen. I'm with you though that a draft could be implemented if its a WW3, America is invaded type situation...
@@cyberpimp29 Believe me - it's not how I'd like to think about this. I remember the dread some of my older sister's friends held for the draft, way back in Vietnam days. But I think it made the war so unpopular, and it was obvious there was no 'winning' going to happen, it finally ended. And again; my feeling that if a country believes it can't do anything but fight, then all should have some stake in it. If that was the case; perhaps we'd be less likely to get into some boondoggle. I don't know...
The book this is based on shows that Hartman suspects Pyle is going crazy, but he intimidates the recruits into keeping quiet about it, because he's already had several other recruits drop out and if he loses Pyle as well, it will bring unwanted attention from his superiors. So he just wants Pyle to get through the training so he can move on and be someone else's problem.
Pyle's story made me cry because i can relate to his situation: wanting to be someone you are not meant to be or just cant become, and being tortured for it
Puked story is harsh because everyone turned their back on him even the one who understood him and knew it was wrong. Joker abandoned his better instincts even after seeing what that did to pyle
It’s sad that there are expectations for people to fit into places on this world they were never intended for and the truly heart breaking part is you need to sacrifice the very core of who you are to become a viable component within it. Like feeling the crushing weight of the true death of anything pure and innocent that the world rejects
It wasnt that he couldn't. He had no idea what he wanted as do most people that join the military. Pyle was a lighthearted guy who realized he dug himself into a deep grave. Regardless of what he wanted this is where hes at and at the end of it all if he didnt make that turn he wouldnt have made it in the marines especially in the middle of a war. But making that turn helped him realize that life wasnt the fairytale he once believed it to be and he made the very adult decision to take it into his own hands and end it. Now i know this sounds bad but life is hard and there are no breaks. There is a heightened level of responsibility you will have to continue to adjust to as you get older all the way until you leave this world. Some people recognize this and take their time to enjoy the small things and there are others who make it their primary fixation like the drill Sargeant who made his identity in the army his whole life. Pyle fell on the opposite side of the spectrum as one who doesnt participate at all
I don't think it's correct to interpret Pyle as "turning evil" in the end of the film. That's a shallow interpretation. The dude had a psychotic break. His brain simply could not deal with the harsh realities of the world he found himself in, which he calls "a world of sh*t." Same thing happened with the computer HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey. Two irreconcilable systems of programming in one brain. A solution cannot be found, and a complete breakdown of the psyche occurs.
@@HPAcustomriflesandcerakote correct. Leonard was never evil. he was literally tortured into insanity. The dude had an obvious learning disability, and was dragged there along the hardass wannabes.
@@MangaSlayer102 yes. And some people have invisible disabilities that never get adressed. Of course, on a mediocre preparation to senda them to war they would not pay too much atention to it
2:56 In an interview, Gunny said that when he was a DI during Vietnam, the government needed more Marines so boot camp was cut from like 14 weeks down to 10 or some such thing. He said that many DI's turned barbaric and brutal because they didn't understand how to accelerate the training. He said that HE never became brutal, but some of his colleagues did.
@@Rollercoaster555 dang man, i salute you, even tho i dont like this country, but im glad you made it out, was it scary there? i had a friend (im in rural alaska) whos dad was in vietnam. tl;dr : what was it like there?
You are wrong. Hartman absolutely knows they will "motivate" him (blanket parties at this time were SOP). They were not "evil". Hartman was betting the peer pressure and retaliation would be enough to get him to do what is expected. It is a closed environment and he would never expect him to have a live weapon off the range. It was an overconfidence in a common practice, not a miscalculation.
Not a question of Pyle’s motivation. It is assumes that no matter who it is, when “properly” motivated, they will respond. Yeah, they will, sometimes badly. Pyle could have killed many in his barracks, not just Hartman. All men are NOT the same. Pyle might have been just fine in a non-combat, support roll...that actually happens in the Marine Corp. and there are NO combat Marines without a ton of supporting personnel...who are also Marines.
@@Timinator2K10 That's exactly my point. Some men will respond better. But some men, like Pyle, who clearly aren't fit for this environment, is it worth the experiment? I suppose many would say, yes. Hartman would. I'm not sure I personally would agree with him. I have no problem with what Hartman did up until he gave a vague instruction.
@@LifeIsAStory I agree with the OP, Hartman knew precisely what kind of motivation was going to be provided. It was the norm to do so in the Marines, or worse - ala the "Code Red" of A Few Good Men. Is it "evil"? I don't consider that to be a simple question with a cut and dry answer. And I say that as a devout Christian. I think it ~could be considered evil. I would say, in this instance, it was certainly misguided. It was the wrong action for this individual. I think Joker's actions are more important than the actions of the others. I think it is a much easier argument to make that Joker's act of betrayal was an evil act. I think Pyle doesn't snap if Joker doesn't join in. I definitely don't think Harman's "suggestion" was evil. It was, again, par for the course in the Marines. The second thing I would mention is that it is often difficult for us, in this hyper aware, psychologically sensitive day and age, to review such movies - or more precisely, the actions and time in which such movies take place. Trying to impart a modern sensibility on a 1960's mentality, and a military mentality at that, is a precarious thing to attempt. There was no catering to weak, sensitive types at that time, especially not in the military. That's not to say that our assessments are necessarily wrong, but I would argue that they are moot to a large degree, b/c we are bringing sensibilities that simply did not exist back then. My dad was a Marine (deceased), and it was not uncommon - at all, for recruits to die, as Drill Instructors marched them off through the swamps with full ruck sacks on their back, knowing there was a real chance that a recruit was going to drown when he stepped into a deep pocket/hole. My dad said 2 recruits from other companies died while he was on Paris Island, from drowning in the swamps. It was a very different world back then - mid 50's for him. As for myself, I joined the Navy in 1989 (19 yrs old). I am a very sensitive person. I was also a very soft person back then. Bootcamp was a nightmare for me, and I hated every minute I was in the Navy. Sure, I changed on the outside, but inside, I was deeply, deeply miserable, b/c that was not who I "was". But even at that time, no one was interested in catering to my soft nature. Nor would I have expected them to. That being said, I found your overall thematic interpretation very interesting.
@@vijabe I appreciate it. And I appreciate the comment. I get where you're coming from. It is difficult to define evil. And I've had people in the comments say that what they did is just the price paid to create competent soldiers. Fair enough. I think Kubrick was worried about what this was doing to the minds of soldiers. If you look at the second half of the film, sex is emphasized very heavily (as it is in other Kubrick films) and the scenes feel useless in a sense, but it appears to me that Kubrick felt that humans in general (not just soldiers) had become too overcome by their human instincts (violence, sex, ext.). Did the Marines dehumanize themselves when they did that to Pyle? Tough question to answer. So I suppose what I'm trying to get at is, there isn't just a cost for Pyle, there is a cost to the Marines who did what they did. I think that what Kubrick is trying to get at. And remember, although Kubrick surely knew the military well, the Vietnam War is simply a place to put forth themes and ideas. He put them in many different settings during his career.
Full Metal Jacket was ostensibly an antiwar film, but it turned into one of the greatest recruiting tools for the USMC. Every Marine I know has seen it at least once. Many joined because of it, not in spite of.
Reminds me of my brother a bit. I took him aside and warned him that the cost may be high, we were supposedly Christian and I felt it was against our beliefs at the time. I kept bringing up, you know you may have to kill people, people that might not be bad, might have families, etc etc, on some meaningless government whim. All he said was, "Yeah? I know." After that he smiled at me and I felt sick to my stomach.
@@AffyisAffy It's something that people that join the military don't know until they're already in. Everyone thinks they're cool and badass until they get in and actually do their job. Then people wake up usually. The people that don't realize something is wrong at some point are too far gone. Nearly everyone in the military hates something that goes on, whether it's the way soldiers are treated, bad leadership, politics etc. The ones that join the system and forget what it was like to be a private are the ones who usually make things worse and perpetuate the system.
Pyle is really a great example of a theme that permeates the film. He illustrates the cruelty of the system that drove him to suicide. It's shocking when he kills Hartman and himself, and at that point I think that Kubrick really kicked off the horrific showing of how the military crushes people, how the bureaucratic awfulness of it all destroys the souls of countless kids.
That's literally the least shocking and most satisfying scene in the movie. In a way it is too satisfying and reduces the tension. I would have preferred if Hartman got away with it.
The actor (for Pyle) did such a good job. I hope he is both proud and knows that he was part of an iconic movie that may very well never meet it's match.
It’s true that drill instructors are responsible for creating, as you say, killing machines. But if you watch interviews with DIs who served during the Vietnam era, they saw themselves as carrying a much greater burden. They were trying to teach those kids how to survive, and at least some of them felt personal responsibility for the fate of their trainees. War is an altogether inexcusable affair, but it falls to the DI to teach military personnel how not to die.
very good, we had some great DIs, many WW2 and Korean War vets, we respected most of them because like many of them said, "I didn't plan on staying in the army after Korea, until I realized the best thing I could do was train young men how to survive combat, and these are the guys you really love, cause being loved by someone in the chain of command is most important for soldiers.
@@davisworth5114, I’m so glad you added your comments. Thank you for sharing your observations. This topic might not be Earth-shattering, but I still think it’s important for people hear.
@@davisworth5114 Revisiting your comment, I hope you stop by again. I think there’s more to what you wrote than I recognized when I read it the first time. Can you expand on why the emotional connection between soldiers and those further up the chain of command was so important? I apologize if it’s obvious, but it’s not obvious to me (I can be pretty slow on the uptake) and I’d like to really understand what you said.
Rightly So, in all branches of the US Military!Blessings to all my Brothers & Sisters in Arms. Very Sad indeed it those day, we all had no respect of our citizen counter parts. However, I can personally say as for myself I never lost respect of us all who served and what I was called to do.
I read that in the book when Pyle kills Hartman (or, the Hartman character whose name in the book escapes me) Hartman tells Pyle that he's proud of him before he dies, because he had turned him into a killer. I'd have liked to have seen that in Full Metal Jacket.
God I wish The Shorttimers would go back into print. I like to make a point of reading the source material, but the book is a bit out of my price range right now.
It doesn't happen exactly like that. It comes off as more of a final plea in my opinion. He starts chewing him out and then flips his strategy. Pyles death is I bit ambiguous, yes he shoots but the whole time he's begging his gun no. It's different for sure
I didn't read the book, and you give a crutial point ! For me the suicide of Pyle in the film is the wrong thing that kills the film. It's just Pyle turning crazy and Hartmann barking as usual. If Hartmann had say in the film what you explained, I would have an other opinion of this scene.
Fletcher and Hartman both achieved exactly their goal with both Nieman and Pyle. Their same goal was to break their student down and rebuild them from the outside in, turning them into what they wanted their students to be. The problem with this is that its infinitely harder to rebuild something than it is to destroy it. The trouble with building outside in is that you can only ever see the surface. The inside may still be in shambles. Hartman wanted a mindless killer who's thoughts were always about ending the enemy, and that's what he got. The machine he built couldn't differentiate Hartman from the idea of the "enemy". Nieman, likewise, became a very impressive and skilled musician, as Fletcher wanted, but isolated, walled off from any human connection, bitter, angry, vindictive and selfish. Another Fletcher, who will probably inflict similar torment on someone he mentally abuses, and the wheel turns. The only difference being that Hartman suffered negatively for his breakage of a young man's psyche, whereas Fletcher revelled with pride at the hollow automaton he created.
The Marines break you down for your own good and the rest of your unit you might come in as a hustler.. akid from the country but when you get through basic hopefully you you understand that you're a marine part of something bigger than you trained to kill and not just murder people combat is a bit ch when you go home you're not a killer you're a vet most who survive will never talk about it I have a friend that is an army ranger Vietnam era he can't watch combat movies and shows it to real you carry out with the rest of your life if the di s did what you see in this movie it was to give you the tools to survive. War is up close and personal crazy if you make it home that basic training help you get there I was in n the army basic had the most unreal feeling at times it was just like this it will change you just wrapping you head around the purpose of it took a lot yes we trained to pull the trigger it's the only way to go we're put in situations nobody should be in this movie always puts me back there some of the others washed out no shame...the dis we had were crazy the ways to train us were better than this but when you and your squad crawled through the live fire course m60 rounds three feet over your head you will be different I just kept thinking to myself damn damn tracers over my head lucky me they're not shooting at my training makes the odds better that you make it home
Well in that case then Hartman accomplished what he set out to do... the senior drill instructor is the enemy and the recruits become a cohesive unit and don't rat on each other , will gladly suffer together , by the end of recruit training they have figured out that daddy was actually the enemy. That he was ordering the junior drill instructors to cause chaos and stress you the fuck out.
Gomer Pyle was also a commentary on McNamara's 100,000 where the military was forced to lower their recruiting standards to meet quotas instead of accepting qualified applicants. It was to illustrate that by forcing the acceptance of handicapped individuals, they would not only put themselves in danger, but would endanger everyone around them by holding them back.
And why? Think about it! There is no more a question of western values, free speech, free though, not at all! Poor Pyle was trained to defend rich people's prosperity, golden watches, diamonds and other useless stuff! Sarge Hartman was a tool, which was made to kill softness, love, empathy, heartness from these poor lads. Lads, who were educated by their mothers and other female siblings. Everyone could remember, how USA messed itself to 'Nam war: president Ike was scared shit to his pants, when someone joke-thrower yelled: COMMIES ARE COMING! So, American elite does not be afraid that communists are going to kill them. No. They were afraid, that communism will take their prosperity (which are made by greed and robbing!). This will lead that political power is no more in the elite's hands. Look at Vietnam now. How many solfiers were killed or mentally ruined for nothing? President Tricky Dick masturbated in his Oval Office every time, when he got reports telling B-52 bomber raids. Tricky Dick, elite's reliable lap-dog! Why the hell we even have a God's Law in our Bibles: "Thou shall not kill"?
"lower their standards" I dont understand what that means, i see that phrase used a lot. what, someone who does 15 pushups isnt qualified to become a soldier, but someone who can do 20, is? a war is won by doing 5 extra push ups in PT? because the requirements for the role of a air force accountant is the same as a marine infantry? come on dude, what are you on about? some people are fit for the life style, others aren't. Pyle should've been washed out, or different methods of training should've been tried. this isnt a matter of "standards lowered". nobody has ever used the phrase "lower standards" with good intentions. usually it's loophole language to discriminate on the basis of gender or skin color.
@@jsmith434w Lower their standards? Its just a simple thing: collect all the heroinists and other black drug abusers from Bronx and send them to Nam. Problem solved, when these youngsters returned to USA in coffins. Police officers laughed loudly!
Having been through boot camp, I’d say that the depiction here is pretty spot on. I never saw anyone get their ass beat by a DI or by recruits. But the group punishment, the intentional humiliation, the off the wall, creative remarks by DIs, and the dark humor speeches are all absolutely true. I think most people are able to adapt to the situation, but sometimes it just flat out breaks people. Some of the fittest, most Moto poolees I knew ended up washing out, and some of the most out of shape fat bodies, managed to excel and make it to the end with flying colors.
Some people broke simply because they actually thought the fleet was gonna be like boot camp. These were the sheltered but those of that grew up with the faja and the yelling from momma and daddy had a blast.
Sometimes, it's the DI's who crack. I won't out anyone, but I've seen one thing that would have gotten a DI arrested, and another DI in another platoon was arrested for punching a recruit. Of course, you hear about the occasional DI suicide. I remember my platoon's senior drill instructor was much more of a asshole when he found out that he'd have one more cycle after us. They're under tremendous pressure.
Pyle lost his family (when Joker punished him, which he considered a betrayal) and thus the world become cold, dark and totally blank for him imo. The driving force behind this loss was the drill sgt., so he took his revenge on him, then ended his life, since he had nothing to live for. The drill sgt. also can be viewed as a real evil force imo, a curruptor, as he motives human beings to become feared murderers.
The common mentality I’ve heard from a former DI is that they are terrified of sending someone improperly prepared for battle. They push recruits to the end of their rope without compassion because there is none on the battlefield. We are now a purely volunteer force and all the more effective for it. In modern times a draft would not work at all and much of why started in Vietnam.
You cannot tell who is evil and who is not everyone of us has an inner demon inside why? Humans are not created perfect we all have evils and madness but war is the only environment were all humans worst trait and inner demons shows. It's understandable in training that the drill instructor push every recruits to the limit even encouraging one to be a trained and cold blooded killer in war there is no mercy and a weak person is as good as dead as he is alive why you cannot survive even a single day in combat if your weak
Saw the movie a few days after my 16th birthday. While as a teen I enjoyed the first 10 minutes of the film full of verbal abuse, I also was shocked by its message which I understood as "the horror of a human having been turned into a killing machine becomes even more obvious when that killing machine attacks its own people".
@@theyear750bc yes i found that the horrific part of it was how this lifestyle, military basic training, and the turning of men into killers, is glorified. that's the truly horrific part.
The Blanket party was necessary for the recruits (and especially Joker) to cut off their humanity and become killing machines. The murder of Hartman is actually portrayed in the original book "The Short-Timers" as well, but it was in front of the entire platoon, rather than in the bathroom. Also, in the book, Pyle wasn't the only struggling recruit.
Most soldiers do not take part in blanket parties, but it is good to learn who the sadists are. You keep ignorantly stating the faulty premise of this vid. is to "cut off their humanity", just spouting absurdities.
No the same facts were told to our platoon during the two weeks at the rifle training range. And this was in 1979, years before this Kubrick film was made. This was a case of art imitating life. Semper Fi
@@uberknott4472 ? Dafuq did this comment come from? My comment and the OP's comment are both focusing on the look on Pyle's face. The fuck does that have to do with what you're saying out of left corner, Crayola Muncher?
@@stevenbass732 the fuzz, any moles, bumps or lumps. You don’t come out of a 30 second haircut without some collateral damage. I loved how after we got ours cut the DI told us to remove our cover and rub our head once before replacing the cover. He said that was it and he didn’t want to catch us rubbing it again. Lll
@@chrissmith7669 Yep. My fondest memory of the first haircut was when a black guy came in with a gorgeous afro. The black barber asked him if he'd like to keep the fro. Of course he said yes. IDK how the barber did it, but he made 5-6 cuts lifted the fro off and set in the guys lap. BTW, you're right about the collateral damage.
During Army basic training we had this big meathead guy named Thacker and he was just like Leonard, he was big and strong but slow and didnt have many friends in the platoon, I tried giving him advice but eventually he just rtt'd which means refused to train which basically means you quit and get chaptered out and sent home. He freaked out over the gas chamber and eagle tower. Some people would make fun of him but mostly people were cool with him. Honestly glad he lives today because honestly i dont know what would happen to him if he was in during the vietnam era, he may have ended up just like Leonard in this movie. This was back when there wasnt much rules and regulations and society as a whole was different.
Had Pyle been in my platoon at Parris Island back in 1970 he would have gotten a bus ticket home quickly , I left Cincinnati with three other guys and we all ended up in the same platoon , I was the only one in the four of us to earn the title.
i think qhat really broke Pyle was Joker taking part and beating him hardest. it was a betrayal in Pyle's eyes. i forget, but were Joker and Pyle still Battlebuddies after the blanket party?
Could he have represented macnamara's morons? Was that only an army thing since they got most of the draftees? I don't know branch but I do know that all attempts to get rid of lower IQs were ignored after the IQ standards were lowered.
I met a man 30 years older than me who was drafted into the Army. His IQ was so simple that his job became setting up volleyball nets, taking out the trash, etc. for his time served. When I met him, his job was the basically the same in a different setting.
@@robzilla730 I got betrayed by 5 Christians in a row. I broke. Took me years to heal, speaking Bible verses over myself, and worship. Now better than ever, praise the Lord.
Every boot camp platoon has at least one recruit like "Gomer Pyle." They don't usually murder the Senior Drill Instructor however. And it is perfectly normal for the Drill Instructor to punish the entire platoon for one person's mistakes. There's a reason they do that. There's a reason why they scream and holler and create an atmosphere of chaos...because combat is chaotic, loud, and supremely stressful and you have to be able to function with all that going on.
I laughed and got sick to my stomach while watching a video when a colonel or general of some sort was interviewing a recruit who was in the midst of his first day of what passes for Army boot camp now. He asked the private if what he was doing was stressful, and the private said flat out, "No, sir! I thought it would be worse." More than that, the NCOIC who was with the recruit, actually corrected him and got the recruit to say it was stressful. But nothing of what they showed would have even taken place on the most relaxed day when I went through even only 30 years ago. We are so screwed if soldiers today are ever sent to a stressful place, because they will have never experienced true stress until that moment, and none of their fellow soldiers has any idea how they will perform.
@@desertrat7634 That's absolutely unsat. No way they're going to be able to function in combat. I don't even have the words my friend, I feel sorry them. Thanks for your service and sacrifice, Semper Fidelis.
Yeah, making your so called “brothers” turn on you and hate you. Makes you feel real safe and capable to go into combat when you are depending on them to have your back 🙄
@@CausticSpace The record of the Marine Corps in combat speaks for itself. Yes, it's harsh to say the least, but combat is no day at the playground either my friend it's brutal, incomprehensibly so.
@@chrisnizer5702 Compared to other similar forces, they aren’t all that good :/ higher casualties, higher suicides, and a bad win loss ration in comparison to other forces. Even in the U.S they aren’t all that, Army Rangers slap them around. The whole Marines are the best and few is just recruitment propaganda. In terms of skills the average marine is the same as an average us army soldier.
Amazing Kubrick stumbles onto a hidden truth - evil carries the seeds of it's own destruction but on the surface, it often appears to be stronger than good but only for a time.
Exactly, evil cannot conquer good, and when it came closest to doing so (in my own belief, the death of Christ) that only ended up working against evil because Christ's death led to good for all who believe Him, God made it so that even what was meant for evil, would turn around for good, putting evil to an absolute shame
Listened to D’Onofrio talk about getting the role and then putting on 80lbs to appear like a slob. Said it was rough gaining all that weight in just fat and blew out his knee. This is an awesome movie with great method acting and think it helped having R Lee Ermey a real drill sergeant to act the role.
My brother spent the summer of 1954 there as a 17 year old. What guys called the old Corp. In 1955-1956 a DI managed to get a bunch of his recruits killed by March them through a swamp at night carrying full gear weighing in excess of 50 lbs. Basic was changed with a heavier emphasis on PT after that. rather than brutality. My brothers stories made this movie seem like child play.
Group punishment is as old as organized military training. It's a proven technique that builds cohesion within the platoon and sorts out recruits that refuse to do the job. From my experience it's rarely a Pvt Pyle, but an aggressive wannabe hard man or a barracks room lawyer. This training is necessary to build the level of discipline and training essential for soldiers going into combat. The training NCO rarely takes pleasure in this process unless he's an evil psychopath.
I was in the army and we had a guy like Pyle and I was assigned to be his Joker and to help him. But unlike Joker I did not participate in the blanket party. He eventually cracked and was taken to the looney bin. I sometimes wonder whatever happened to that kid. He's probably a senator Lol.
We had a guy flip like that in AIT, he didn't kill anyone, but it was a trip. He went over the edge over a weekend and I was on fire duty that weekend. Last I knew he was under 3 point restraint. He never came back, so I never got my jumper cables back that were in his trunk.
Yup. I saw how recruit training changes someone. Also, processing and serving in their unit changes them as well. Basic is just the beginning of a major transformation. A person changes in Basic, in his unit and on deployment. Each challenge is more difficult than the last, with the VA (Veteran Affairs) being the most difficult in many ways.
I was in Army BCT in 1975. At the end of each training day we turned in all the weapons back to the armorer. It was literally impossible to take one into the latrine. And we were watched so closely it was equally impossible to get hold of any live rounds back to the barracks. Even the qty while loading our magazines was closely monitored.
I did my recruit training at MCRD San Diego. We had to button our top button all through 1st phase of training (there were three phases when I did it in 86'). Once we moved on to 2nd phase we unbuttoned the top button. By the time I went in things had changed dramatically in recruit training from prior years due to some seriously excessive recruit deaths as a result of batshit-insane DI's. In 83' one fuck-O DI marched an entire training platoon into the swamps of Parris Island which resulted in the drowning deaths of five recruits. Then in 85' at MCRD another nutjob DI who was pissed at his squad made them run the tap water until scalding hot then ordered the recruits to fill their canteens and then forced them to drink the scaling hot water. One recruit died and about 20 were seriously injured. So when I went in July of 86' DI's could no longer punch or slap you. They had workarounds though, they would spit on you and even kick you on occasion and if you were a real fuck-up they would take you into the "whiskey locker" which is the supply room, close the door, and beat the shit outta you but that rarely happened.
@@lewjames6688 Having gone through Parris Island, I can tell you unequivocally that recruits do not button their top button. Perhaps you should learn your place. San Diego isn't real boot camp anyway. Why would anybody admit that. A So.Cal. beach and boot camp?... righhht. There is no boot camp without that swamp smell and 17 acres of grinder.
I have to agree, when watching Full Metal Jacket it is best to view it as 2 phases of a process. Also as someone with significant military experience Hartman knew exactly what the rest of the platoon would do to Pyle.
The interesting thing about Pyle to me is that Kubrick got me to feel for him, have compassion for him, like I would a child, but also got me to laugh at him, mock him and disdain him. So the character Pyle exposed my own very real duality, to me. i was Joker. The first half of the movie has a lot of that.
D'onofrio gave a masterful performance. He really did look just like a little kid when Joker was showing him how to execute the commands with his rifle.
I appreciate your candidness but why did you view him with disdain? What fault was it of his that you would feel disdain for the poor guy? It saddens me to hear this because I had an older cousin like Pyle that the village children would laugh at and ridicule. He was a soft and very loving character. One day I was walking with him, he was always barefooted as he didn't like shoes (the Mediterranean is hot in the summer) and a group of kids saw him and started their usual crap on him. The joy he had of having met me in the street suddenly turned to this tangible sadness in his eyes and it just killed me. I was 11 years old at the time. I picked up three or four good-sized stones and threw them at their heads. I was a pretty good shot and a couple of the stones found their mark. I picked up some more stones to throw at them but they run off effing and blinding. I walked my cousin home and told his father what had happened and who some of those idiots.
I agree with your last message, everyone takes their fortune into their own hands. But combat isn't just human nature. There are exterior factors involved. Politics, friendships and psychology. A human will not be broken down that simply. Just as you do say in your part two. We all react differently to these very stressful situations. Go to boot camp once. You'll understand motivations much better. Reactions will be different of course. Good analysis by the way!
Thank you much appreciated! And I agree with what you’re saying mostly. There are a lot of layers to these films that are worth discussing but when I look at movies, I always gravitate towards ideas about human nature, and I think Kubrick did the same in his movies for the most part. Although he did include political messages for sure.
Combat mainly is human nature. To fight with oneself over resources. Instead of cooperating amd coordinating. Politics are entirely human concepts as are governments. Ants and whatnot do come close, however they serve in the natural world to survive.. we serve in other conflicts that arise from other human conflicts. The only conflicts most countries face are human related conflicts. Food shortages in some countries for example. Couldve been solved with coordination and cooperation. Meanwhile many others waste. Food shortages in most places of the world technically would be human related considering the technological advancements humans have achieved. Yet we csnt even feed ourselves? Come on.. most of the us economy is based off wars and fighting them. Ww2. Vietnam korea the list goes on. All wars are fought over lack of resources due greed or human idiocy. Or literally ideologies. Hence crusades. The only natural conflicts are the ones in well... nature. Fighting to survive. Whether it be environment or predators. To survive is a natural fight. To fight for oneselfs beliefs, good or bad, your own gain, or any reason you decide on. Is fabricated. By you, and anyone who partakes. Sometimes you need to fight for the good of something. But the problem your facing is either human created, related, or could eased with peaceful human interaction Catch my drift? Tldr: Humans are asshats that create most of their own problems and blames it on other factors. All wars are included. Ps. Maybe art school should be more accepting too.
I did basic (Canadian Army) in 1977. We had one guy in my platoon who must have barely passed the aptitude tests as he was a very low IQ recruit. We actually found the staff went out of their way to get him through, including giving him a “tutor” which was one of the top recruits to give him extra help. He did make it through mostly because he was motivated to be there. The ones that didn’t make it usually quit on themselves.
Great video. When I went through Recruit Training, my platoon had a Pyle. The poor guy had no business being there. We suffered for his mistakes for 3 weeks until he got injured.
We also had a Pyle, I even called him Pyle. That guy was such a fuckup while we were supposed to be straightening up our areas before getting our graduation release brief.the idiot fell asleeep.. our TI had to wake him up. He kept denying being asleep. Finally he admitted it. When the TI asked why, instead of saying he was tired he said it was because he was bored lmao. He didn't get to leave the base with his family for graduation celebration lol.
Every platoon has a least one "Pyle" They are not usually bad people, just unfit for the task. The problem is when you cannot send them off but you are obliged to work with them, train them and try to make them deliver... Most of times they are a danger to themselves and their teammates
Realizing that there would be no movie or story to tell if it had happened, the reality of it all is that the only thing Pyle needed was a free bus ticket back home. He never was Marine Corps material. And he never was going to be. In the real world, he was just a recruitment error. He shouldn't have been allowed to enlist in the first place.
you should read up on Mcnamara's morons. there legitimately was a period when people who scored below Average were thrown into the thick of the fighting.
In a harsh world we must show patience and forgiveness to people like Leonard. That could be your little brother, your child, co worker, spouse, etc. Genuine love casts out all fear. Everyone learns at different speeds in different ways. I believe a lot of homelessness, suicides, murders, and people turned insane is from parents treating their babies like how this DI treated Leonard.
The impact this had on, at least US Army basic training [I can't speak for the other Services - they are all different] - was a profound impact. I went to basic in '97 - we weren't *allowed* to take our M16s into the latrene (bathroom) *because* of FMJ - not even the port-a-potties in the field. Our Battle Buddy had to hold onto them. I also speculate - though it is a very muddled quasi-urban-legend subject to investigate - that the whole "Stress Card" thing, has at least *some* origins in FMJ. Basically amounting to, "Don't push the Privates too much, or they might kill you - we need to have a corrective action for this fictional possibility... we need a way for Privates to indicate they have had enough, that is neutral in the assessment of stress. Hey, how about a mood-ring card?" Something like that. I wonder how that influence has evolved up to today?
Modern army basically had an open door policy. We had someone who broke mentally and they just had someone walk with them to a DS and they spilled their heart and guts out. 5 weeks later she was gone
@@hackermangage1703 Okay, so about the same as when I was in. For the record, I never saw (I don't think anyone saw) are REAL "stress card" - it would have to have an National Stock Number as an official Army form, DA-Something-or-other. Never heard of such a form. I think the stress card, in reality, is right up there with, "The Buffer Hanging" urban legend. It was *always* "Not my company, but another company in my training battalion..." level. LOL I wonder if Mythbusters ever tested the buffer cord myth on Buster?
@@wallaroo1295 yeah, stress cards are bullshit. When I went to basic, Mfs would make jokes about it but nobody was ever actually given a “stress card.” It was a load of bullshit
@@sovietelmo3000 The only thing I can come up with, is something a Good Idea Fairy Chaplain would try - some third party "Check your Stress" civilian thing from the time, some training battalion tried it, and the Military Legend grew from there. Who knows for sure - at this point though, it is most definitely in the Legend category.
The torture you're referring to is called a blanket party. And it happens in basic training. I was in the USAF in early 1980 and this sort of thing happened at my boot camp.
@@therealstubot It's torture and bullying, there's no two ways about it. In normal jobs it would land you with the sack and possibly even jail time. If the person isn't up to the job, fire them. There's never an excuse for physical and mental abuse.
We're meant to feel sympathy for Pyle, having been put into a situation that he was incapable of dealing with, but I also feel some sympathy for Hartman. Not once did I ever get the feeling that his tactics or behavior were giving him any sense of pleasure or enjoyment. He was given a very difficult job to do and took the responsibility very seriously. He had neither the time nor the personal tools to deal with Pyle the way that Joker was able to do so he allowed Joker to try to do the job for him. Some might see Pyle's killing of him as some form of justice but to me they were both casualties of war.
Hartman was part of the military that demanded him to deliver 'killing machines' (not 'thinking soldiers') as they have to act on (learned) 'instinct'. In a sense, Hartman was a victim of that mentality as well - if he had dismissed Pyle, he would have 'failed' and been reprimanded. So, the Army/Marines rather cracks recruits past their breaking point than realise maybe some people are truly not a good match - maybe put him in supplies where he might do a better (great?) job? However, with a sociopath like McNamara, cranking out his 'optimized' Army, he figured even low-IQ recruits could win the war for him and his incompetent boss. Not to dismiss the Army's inane doctrine - they were still training for WWII - making it way too easy for the Communists to send them home in a bag. So it was a top-down issue - Hartman was just a insignificant cog in it - and obviously failed, but that is where the system broke down.
@@MrCmon113 It was Hartmans job to prepare them for war, I would rather have a drill instructor abuse me because I'm weak to prepare me for whats to come instead of treat me with softness and gentleness just for me to get slaughtered.
When I originally saw this film i was shocked and disturbed at the boot camp segment. After i went through army basic training i identified with the Marine drill instructor and had an appreciation for the process. The benefits of transformation from civilian to soldier (or Marine) cannot be overestimated. That today's standards are lower and basic training has been defanged is ripping off recruits from that transformation.
I've noticed that more and more now. My uncle went through bootcamp during Nam man is an absolute asskicker. I'm thankful for having some amazing RDCs build me up to be tougher, stronger and more humble. The new batch of kids coming from bootcamp seem softer and expect more.
I agree a kid I was friends with went to Paris island and I thought he’d come back a man but still a whiny little manipulative beyotch scared of everyone that stepped toward him . Saddest part was playing basketball man after ten minutes he was winded and needed a break I’m a smoker for crying out loud and was in disbelief. Times have changed for sure . It’s still boot camp but it’s not what the greatest generations went through. Dude got himself kicked out of the corp and then the army took him he completed they’re basic also in fort sill Oklahoma and then went awol. Yet he runs around with his cat card and talks about himself to chicks like he’s gi joe lol it’s right there with stolen valor in my book. Pisses me off I wanted in to serve badly but flat feet and a arrest ruined it . But yeah the intensity has been turned down a few notches for sure
@@Nephalem2002 doesn't matter. Still need to be ready for battle and any enemies that may try to take you life aka end your living subscription. I still train, still workout, still stay aware of my surroundings. I hate having my back turned on the door when I eat at a restaurant or pub.
Very insightful. I believe everyone will face some form of adversity that will change their core at some point in their life. As one goes through these experiences, get older, and gain wisdom we realize how important it is to learn from these experiences to change us for the better, no matter how horrible they are. It becomes especially tragic when you see this pattern repeat and you see innocent, good people change for the worse due to hard life experiences.
Retired combat soldier, here. I practised my art well. A couple of weeks ago, I found a bird, frozen on the road. I brought it home and nursed it, all weekend, until it died. I can assure you that the Army changes you. It does things that cannot be done in any other environment. However, the reality of taking lives makes you better at saving lives. Those things that aren't out there to kill you........ you just feel a responsibility to save. I can't talk for all of us, but that's how I ended up. It may just be me...I don't know. I know that my humanity was strengthened when I learned how to end someone.
Well said Marty. I live inner city, can be a rough place. I was asked why I grab my med bag, glove up and get emergency services to the degenerates of society. My answer always has been, wouldn't you want someone to help you?
@@Pd-17 Great work, Mate. If society could only look at all the great examples of selflessness and try to reflect them, things would be different. My best wishes go with you, every time you step out the door. Take care.
@@Will-ud4wr Ummmm.....Many, I guess. I wake up to any flickering lights and fireworks, even at a distance. I've become a bit emotionally detached, but extremely emotional, at times. I value life so much more than I can say. Any life...period. I work very hard to be understanding of peoples circumstances and cultural differences. Violence is a huge no. And, number one....the smell of death does weird things to me.
Precisely. No analysis of FMJ is possible without reference to Project 100,000. As well R Lee Ermey relates the pressure Marine trainers were under to turn out riflemen at the height of the war with swollen training cadres and compressed schedules with the resulting abuse meted out on the recruits.
It feels weird knowing that had I lived back then, I likely would have been one of them. This is exactly why I'm not going to join the military anymore.
McNamara's morons is truly a sick idea that was adopted by the US government, the underlying reason for it was not to give hope and purpose to men from poor backgrounds. The program was used because McNamara knew the outrage of poor soldiers being killed at high rates would be minal as compared to soldiers being killed from middle-class families. (Pure evil) However these low IQ soldiers proved useless in battle and America completely stopped the idea of a draft army.
During the Vietnam war the need for manpower in the combat branches of the armed services made it necessary for the Army and Marine Corps to lower its enlistment standards. The Gomer Pyle character portrayed here symbolizes those recruits. As an Army recruit myself during that period I saw many enlisted men who were mentally deficient. Further, often times young criminals were given the option of jail time or military service. You didn’t have to be smart to be in the Infantry. You just had to obey orders and be able to pull a trigger.
When Hartman left it to the rest of the guys to sort out Gomer Pyle. That was him pushing them to become one single unit and pull everyone to achieve their goals. I saw thar as a strategy Hartman used to motivate everyone and have the slackers feel the pressure, when even their closest budies starts to get annoyed with them for under performing. The whole point of their training is to create soldiers not teddy bears
They used similar methods in the waffen SS if the recruit wanted to leave. Germany needed every recruit at that point and either the whole unit graduated, or a failing recruit would be pushed to suicide through acts more evil than those done to Pyle.
@@taterater1052 LOL Is that what they tell you in school now? Well here's the truth: Punishment exercises were entirely BANNED under the Reich. Banned. So take your misinformation and propaganda and shove it.
I feel for the dude in saving private Ryan, no-one knows how they would react in the situation he was in. Fear is an all encompassing emotion, paralyzing one minute and not the next. Unless you have been in combat you don't understand how powerful fear can be, both crippling and a powerful driving force.
My first time seeing this movie was on parris Island on Christmas when I was in bootcamp. Great movie. I had it tough in training as I wasn't use to the new environment. Over time I adapted but not without sacrifice. We all have to give something up in order to gain something.
We had someone very similar to Pyle when I went to Army Basic Training for Infantry. He was by all means a child in a grown man's body. He flagged us with live rounds so many times it was horrifying. He eventually got kicked out, but it made me think, how on Earth could a recruiter look at this guy, Listen to him and think "yeah, he'll fit in"? I get that the infantry doesn't require the smartest, but it does require a functional brain, that of which this dude did not have. It was messed up.
The U.S. Army following a Defense Dept change of policy actively sought to enlist sub-normal intelligence recruits to increase the numbers during the Vietnam War. There's a good documentary on this on TH-cam. The soldiers who served with some of these guys say there's no way they could've survived in combat. When I was working a job where the supervisor was a retired Marine, in a matter of days I began to be treated like crap. I asked another employee also USMC-retired, what do they do in the Corp when they don't like someone? His answer was immediate, no hesitation, "Target him as a scapegoat, drive him out, and use it to build cohesion in the unit."
Your videos about Full Metal Jacket are beautiful and perceptive. Great work. Another part of the movie that supports your thesis about Gomer Pyle is the section of the movie where Joker remarks that the commanders are pleased that the recruits are moving "beyond their control," and that "the Marine Corps doesn't want robots. It wants killers." That's what Pyle becomes in the end- a killer beyond control. Your observations about Pyle's fundamental nature being changed reminds me of another Kubrick film- A Clockwork Orange, which also deals with fundamental change in a person ending in disaster. Great analysis.
pretty sure any normal ass person would probably do something regardless. You gotta be a special type of person to have a psyychotic episode in the middle of that.
Having survived what the Army calls Basic Training in the late 60s, I can say that it is rough at times. You could have seen a DI as tough and mean as Hartman but striking a recruit was a court martial offense so it didn’t happen too much (I suppose it did happen). After basic I went on to Advanced Infantry Training where the combat training intensified even as half the recruits went to non-combat training. Oddly enough, advanced combat training was less stressful as the men had already be separated from the boys.
I did my time on Parris Island in 1975. Many recruits in my platoon were struck, and outright physical abuse took place as well...such as taking four recruits, having them do bends and thrusts until they were near exhaustion them pouring bleach and ammonia on the closet floor and making them do more. 76 started, only 42 graduated on time. Not going to lie: I made it on time but what I took with me through that and my service changed part of me that took years after discharge to get back. Being sent to do the untold dirty things in Central America didn't help.
@@majorsynthqed7374 I hope the CIA weren't using you to murder innocent civilians. If they were, could you resist that order? I heard that soldiers don't have to follow immoral orders or orders against the Geneva Convention on warfare. Is that true?
@@ninelaivz4334 Any military member who refuses an order from a superior can be court martialed. At that point, it is up to the courts to decide the legality of the specific situation. Many such instances are hushed up in militaries around the world, and frankly have been for centuries.
There is a saying in the military "don't be last." This basically means that if you are at the back of the pack in a pack march or run you will draw the ire of your superiors. Be last or not get results to many times then your punishment gets shared with your team. The group punishment either activates the group to help you or in worse case draw their anger. You WILL push up to the front or get results, it saves ypu alot of hassle.
Clockwork Orange, Barry Lyndon, The Shinning and Full Metal Jacket all touched personal transformations. It was kind of the two novellas of Kubrick's career. Everything up to 2001 and everything after.
Well said. The books which Full Metal Jacket and A Clockwork Orange were based on focus on what is essentially brain washing to create or change an individuals behaviour or mindset and the negative consequences involved with the conditioning and treatments.
For Beginners, the Private Pyle would not have made it in Marine Corp's Recruit Training. No matter the Recruit Depot at San Diego or Parris Island. Some one like that would not have gotten past Receiving let alone Forming. But the video's synopsis is on the mark.
Yeah, that’s what I’ve heard from a lot of people. But for the sake of a story, some unrealistic things need to occur. But it is worth pointing out. And glad you enjoyed 🙏
Not so fast there where plenty of Pyle's in the military back then just look up McNamara's Morons. Robert McNamara lowered the standards to fill the ranks for Vietnam.
Your comment on how he says "Ow" is spot on. As a parent, a child simply saying "Owie": means it's bad. Broke my heart seeing it again as a 35 year old parent of 3 and when I was like 15 and saw it the first time.
IMO, Hartman committed suicide-by-Pyle. He knew *precisely* what he was doing by viciously antagonizing an armed and very mentally dangerous man who had his loaded rifle leveled right at him. Hartman was deliberately trying to provoke Pyle into shooting and, SURPRISE! it worked. It proved Hartman WAS successful with converting Pyle into a real killer and, it showed that Hartman never failed at his job of creating able killers. Throw in other possible factors such as a measure of Hartman's combat survivor's guilt or, that he knew that he'd never get to die a hero's death in battle.
Interesting idea, although Hartman’s reaction when Pyle actually turns his gun on him sort of causes him to "break character" which makes me think what happened to Pyle was unexpected.
@@LifeIsAStory I sure thought it looked obvious that Pyle had snapped...and, anybody with a weapon, who has possibly snapped, needs to be treated with kid gloves to end the situation. Hartman did the EXACT opposite. I can easily imagine Hartman's superiors saying "WTF did he think he was doing? The crazy SOB."
@@darrelldunn4618 Yeah, I think you're right. Hartman just miscalculated...but, he really should have known there was no reasoning or, demanding compliance from an ARMED head case. A weapon changed everything...literally.
@@Timinator2K10 :: That makes sense ! Hartman has seen thousands of recruits. He couldn't help but understand / recognize individual personal & character differences of ... With Hartman's experience, he should have known his "aggressive" training wouldn't work w / Pyle & w / his experience, he could have developed a special "formula" for special recruits. This is exactly like the conundrum of weather "art imitates life or life imitates art" :: The real-life ending of Christopher Kyle ( American Sniper ) who took someone, Routh, w / mental issues, to a shooting range & give him a loaded weapon which Routh then used to shoot Kyle & his buddy, Chad Littlefield, killing both. _( How the Hell did Pyle get into the military in the first place ? )_
For those of you who haven't been, Marine Corps bootcamp is 3 months of some of the best and worst times you will experience up to that point. It's monotonous and interesting, but no matter what it's fucking hilarious. One of the hardest things was not laughing when something went wrong or when someone says something stupid out of nerves. If any young men out there want one hell of an experience, join up.
IMHO - the point of the first part was that they were training the Marines to kill. Pyle was the first one that was successfully, 'trained.' Joker was relatively unchanged through the first section of the film because it was a joke to him. He could use his humor and intelligence to escape the training - he told himself it wasn't real, but he still participated in the blanket party. Of course it was real. Pyle killed the leader of the enemy force (Hartman). He was the only one to become a true Marine. It wouldn't be until the second part that Joker was finally, 'trained.' Full Metal Jacket isn't a complex film. It's really simple. The modern world will kill you and it will force you to kill others. It is murderous. It is evil. It has been murderous for 100 + years on a scale never before seen in history and there is no way to escape it. Somehow, it is the most intelligent and humored that come to the realization last, while the dimwitted get there first. The imaginative fantasize their way out of this reality for a time. The dull have no choice but to face it. Regardless, you are living in a world filled with monsters.
No. The world is not evil. US is evil. US created the monsters out of people, sent them to other side of world to bring hell in there. Remember helicopter gunner? Killing people for fun. Have you seen last scene, when soldier were marching in night, lit by fire. That was refference about nazi poster. Pyle looks like nazi poster "der untermensch". By the way, he is not first Gomer Pyle in movies, look up.
Great video again. I have a slightly different take. Gomer pyle *IS* the everyman exaggerated signifying the normal people not cut out for war but forced into it. not understanding the conflict. In fact the reasons and nature of the conflict is immaterial. Just that the conflict exists. Trying to do well but not really being enough until comprehending the brutality viscerally (the night flogging) of how ugly war is. Stripping you of all joy and innocence. Only then does he become an exemplary soldier. But it is in effect self destructive by nature hence his killing of hartman. From the perspective of the military sgt hartman isnt even a necessary evil. Hes an instructor. What is a man who shouts to the horrors of war? What is running assault courses to the Vietnamese terrain? What is being hit at night to your friends entrails? Even the night flogging presses on the idea "if you fuck up here where the stakes are low your whole platoon could die in the field" thats the logic of the warrior. Dont allow him to fuck up here. If being soft (jokers initial approach) is successful use it. If hard (night flogging) works use it. Because if he fucks up when the stakes are high you'll wish you cared back in paris island. One no longer can adopt the logic and mentality of a civillian but have to adopt the logic of life and death is in seemingly meaningless things like unlocked footlockers etc. Its an excellent film vert layered
Yes, I definitely see what you’re coming from. I don’t think Hartman really does anything wrong necessarily. The question becomes, what method goes too far? I would say what they did to Pyle is too far but it was a practice in boot camp. Interesting question. Appreciate the comment!
@@LifeIsAStory Well there you go, thats the absurdity of it all. We think that this behaviour is abhorrent, and it is. But if one mentally scarred young man and a dead gunnery sargeant is the cost of 30-40 competent marines. Thats a net win. Look forward to your next vid.
There is one phrase that I have never, never forgotten from bootcamp: "Attention to detail!" Because even the smallest of details, unattended to, can get you killed.
@@LifeIsAStory Look at it another way. Here you have 40 young men unaccustomed to really hard times. Live or die, kill or be killed. The DI's have just 13 weeks to turn them into warriors. Sounds like a long time, but it's not. The first thing they have to do is make them understand that individuals no longer exist. It's all or none.
The foot locker scene is significant though because it's really victim-blaming. He tells Pyle if it weren't for ppl like him who leave their stuff unattended/ unlocked, there would be no thievery in the world. It's a comment that really doesn't make sense, because everyone knows that thieves steal from locked cars/ houses/ and mug people just walking down the street. The comment is basically: "If something bad happens to you, then you were asking for it." I think it's more demoralizing by the Drill Instructor, chipping away at Pyle, and it's also a comment by Kubrick on soldiers and Marines in general and the attitude our country goes into war with. It's a message from the U. S. to the enlisted men.
This is a fantastic breakdown of one of my all time favorite films. However, one could consider Joker as the moral good in the flims first half albeit a severely flawed one. If you remember when the platoon punishes Lenard, Joker doesn't want to partake in it at all. He hesitates until Pvt. Cowboy insists he follow through. Had Joker resisted completely, the platoon would have turned on him and beat him with the soap as well. Maybe the term moral good isn't correct in this example but he does accept his role in guiding Private Pile through basic training as one would a child through grade school. What I find so incredibly fascinating is Piles loss of innocence and transformation. He absolutely becomes the killer Gunney intended but unlike the rest of the cadets he wasn't rebuilt into the soldier he was supposed to be. I often wonder if Lenard would have merely shot himself had Joker and Gunney not become involved. Addendum- I think Gunney intended on having his recruits punish Pile. This is not a new phenomenon in the military. Although I don't believe it is used today...
12:00 it almost feels like a demon possession. They removed Pyle's soul, and that created a void in him, and in that void a demon of indiscriminate death took hold. Not just a soldier trained to kill, but a thing that worships death, whether that be the death of Hartman's or his own it didn't matter; he just had to kill. He seems so inhuman in that final scene, and the montra he repeats almost sounds like a prayer.
Parts of the movie when they were in basic training were filmed in bassingbourne barracks in the UK....my dad did his basic there in the early 70s....the film the Memphis bell was also filmed there as it was us army airfield in ww2.
When I went through basic we had a guy very similar to Pyle... we were all very calloused, rude and overall just venomous to him bordering on the line of hatred, myself included. This video made me regret how awful we were to that guy. He really just needed some extra help. Thankfully when our drill instructor appointed the “good cop” to help him out he got his shit together and it didn’t end for him like it did for Pyle. I wonder if he’s still in the AF now and again and I hope he’s doing okay and adapted to military life
I watched the movie when it first came out and I have watched it many times since. But this analysis is really very pointed and enabled me to see the entire movie from a different perspective and better understand why certain scenes come across as they do.
I had a buddy that sort of cracked like Pyle did. It was creepy. He caught one of our DI's attention one day, he got about a week or two of "special attention" I'd lean more toward the DI doing it out of malice, but either way, he needed to crack, harden up or completely break out of necessity. It was late 2001 and the "war on terror" was just getting kicked off.
I think you're missing the point of the Paris Island chapter: I was left with the very strong impression that if Vincent D'0nofrio's character hadn't signed up, Hartman would have made a Gomer Pyle from the next weakest trainee in the company; Hartman's method is to always have a scapegoat to bully in order to terrorize the other recruits into compliance. I suspect Marine DIs actually do this.
Every recruit is fucked up. It has nothing to do with bullying or scapegoating, and every recruit has their moment of "pyle-ism" The difference is, you learn and move forward or you dont. PI is a shock to the system but their is more mentally demanding/physically demanding schools in the pipeline, and no matter the level youre at, or what school there is some form of a Pyle.
Training isn’t like this, and hasn’t been for a while, and this kind of outcome isn’t as common as you imagine. Just go talk to a young Marine next time you see one. I work with a lot of Marines from different eras, and all are really great guys, work hard and smart, and are very dependable.
I can’t believe people told me this movie was supposedly a “comedy” but with dark humor. When I watched, I didn’t think any of it was funny and honestly felt bad for the Marines
I've seen 2 dudes change like that. One was a Mormon and the other was a Singaporean. I still remember the look on their faces when they finally broke. That was 12 years ago. Still haunts me a bit to this day.
This movie is a classic Vietnam War movie, I served in the navy , but can relate to the boot camp scenes, even in navy boot camp was pretty tough in the sixties and seventies, 14 weeks long, in the summer, in San Diego, coming out movie for R.Lee Ermy and Vincent Dinoffrio, great performances by all.......keep on......wiley coyote
Hahaha I was across the fence at the mcrd, we could see y’all smokin and joking laughing at us dumbasses. But we all had to lie in our racks at night wishing we were on one of the jets taking off at the SD airport no?
I served in the Air Force in the 60s and 70s, my basic training wasn't quite as harsh as "Full Metal Jacket" but it wasn't far off. I still remember the flying footlocker and racks. Oh yeah, and the language too.
I liked this analysis a lot. I think many of us are being tested right now with so much polarization in our society as to how they would react if faced with someone who is willing to be violent to support their opinions. I also liked how you brought in the actual story of being reprogrammed in Westworld and how some people can’t accept being reprogrammed. One final thing, I noticed you said soldier at 8:33 and that only applies to the Army. Marines cringe when they get called soldiers.
For some reason when I watched this piece I starting thinking about “Lord of the Flies”. I think it’s that grinding, remorseless unrelenting journey towards a dissociative state where all trace of civilisation and a moral framework collapses in on itself. It’s captured beautifully in LOTF when in the novel ( can’t remember if this bit is in the film) one of the boys cannot remember his own details which he was able to recount like clockwork at the start of the story. The “system” on the desert island has broken these kids down just as the Marine corps has done in varying ways and to varying degrees to these enlisted men. Still prefer Apocalypse Now, but FMJ is a very very close second.
That’s a great connection. I haven’t read LOTF in so long that it didn’t cross my mind. In terms of forgetting who you are because of the brutal environment, Fury Road has a similar theme in there. And yeah I’m with you, FMJ is second for me.
As a Marine I feel like I earned my title, and always appreciated being addressed as such by other branches, or civilians. Aside from that I respect all servicemen across the board. If you’ve never been in a situation where someone without an EGA saved your behind consider yourself lucky. For those of us that have when it hits the fan you’re just glad those Sailors, Airmen, and Soldiers are on your side.
My friends dad was a marine. He told me I'd make a good marine because I was about 5 foot 10 and 180something pounds. I saw this movie though and it really turned me off. Got into working instead.
It was pretty much the same when I was in the army. When I was in it some days felt like shit lots of penalistic stuff made to brake boys down but in after I will think it was for the good. There is no time for deep analysis, brake em and shape em and when one looks around..where in earth is soft gloves used? One will adapt and make it or not and not is one very bad option.
If you ever wondered exactly what a "code red" was in A Few Good Men, watch what Pyle's squad did to "give him the proper motivation". Citizens see it as barbaric but as Colonel Jessup said, "it is an invaluable tool in close infantry training". Ol' Leonard learned quick, though his psych issues turned his focus in the wrong direction. Hartman wasn't training extras in Spandeu Ballet video, he was training kids to become killers so they wouldn't return from 'Nam in a bag with a toe tag.
Hartman absolutely knew the platoon would turn on Pyle and take matters into their own hands. That was the whole point of mass punishment.
Of course. Any DI would understand this implicitly.
Anyone who loves Jesus Christ would NEVER participate in the mass punishment those recruits engaged in. This is the same as doing this to Jesus himself !!! I would rather flat out refuse to do this torture to someone.
Their behavior was EVIL and DISGUSTING, PERIOD !!!! "Love your neighbor as yourself, for love does no harm to his neighbor; in so doing you have FULFILLED THE HOLE LAW' !!! and Jesus said, "What you do to others you have also likewise done it unto me" (!!!!!!)
Their behavior was disgusting and wicked. "Love your neighbor as yourself for love works no evil against his neighbor, in so doing you have fulfilled the whole law" (Romans 13:9-10). Jesus also said, "What you do to others you have likewise also done it unto me."
@@robertmckinley2886
I respect your beliefs, however, the point is making soldiers and marines who are capable of defending your God given right to believe the way you do by killing other people and breaking their things.
Nothing about war or battle is supposed to be tempered by morality. The problem is not the military and its methods of converting normal humans into warriors capable of meeting and enemy and defeat him but also willing to sacrifice their life to do so, the problem is helping them deal with it or turning it off afterwards when the soldier leaves service. Maybe the lord can heal the heart afterward. One could hope.
I enlisted in 1987, three months after the release of this movie. Every recruit must have seen this movie, as I did before enlisting. The blanket parties were off the wall. By the way, it is considered blasphemous to call a Marine a "soldier."
Can’t say I’m surprised. I’m sure some took it better than others. And I wasn’t aware.
If you're gonna capitalize Marine, capitalize Soldier too, hero. I earned THAT title in 1988, not a damn thing wrong with it.
You may not like it but marines check two of the three boxes of the definition of a soldier. You only have to check one of them to be classified.
@@1pcfred mutual respect. Ever heard of it?
@@robzilla730 I have heard of it. I am a proponent of respect is earned myself. I am not into participation awards. Just showing up isn't enough to earn anyone any brownie points with me. Above and beyond is a nice start as far as I'm concerned.
My view of the jelly doughnut scene is that Hartman wasn't punishing Pyle for stealing, he was punishing him for getting caught. For drawing attention by not locking his footlocker. Not only is he training them for combat but also for the possibility that they become prisoners of war where it might be necessary to steal food and getting caught could lead to every prisoner being searched.
Having been through Army boot camp I can tell you that the methods and logic of drill sergeants/drill instructors aren't complicated and haven't changed much over the years. Nowadays they can't physically strike a recruit or overly demean them, but things like smoking the entire group for one guy's mistakes are still very much a core tenet of training doctrine. You punish the group for one's mistakes so that everybody learns the price of "slipping up" when it matters, not just the one. And if somebody leaves their locker unlocked, it's getting absolutely trashed to teach the recruit the importance of securing not just his personal belongings, but the expensive equipment he will soon be entrusted with. You trash their locker so that way they learn to be more careful before they're given a set of night vision goggles worth ten grand, or to secure their potentially classified documents. What good is a guard who can't remember to lock a door?
@@WednesdayBLK “aren’t supposed to” physically strike recruits 😅😉
He wanted a ruthless killer ... he got one.
My absolute favorite branch of the Military is the Air Force, of which I always wanted to be a part of since I was little.
Even the Air Force Military Training Instructors are strict with their recruits.
When I was growing up, I would feel tears when I heard Drill Seargeants, Drill Instructors, and Military Training Instructors yell at their recruits from movies such as this one.
But I understand why these individuals need to be yelling, and throwing insults: to toughen up the recruits for war.
No one cannot scatter fuzzy-wuzzy, feel-good, huggy-wuggy, unicorns and rainbows, sunshine and lollipops on the warfront. War is ugly.
There is no sunshine and lollipops, fuzzy-wuzzy feel good, unicorns and rainbows during war battle.
And do these Drill Seargeants, Drill Instructors and Military Training Instructors cry? Absolutely NOT.
In that BUD/S class 234 documentary, the Chief Seal Instructor punished two guys for having candy where they weren't supposed to, and I remember it did feel more like he wasn't really mad, but still made them do a couple hundred push-ups. It felt like the Seal community has the same mentality regarding getting caught.
It wasn't really discussed until years later, but the scenes with Pyle are referencing "McNamara's Morons". When the US government wanting to increase the draft, they lowered the standards and let in people who were too low IQ or mentally unfit for service. This program had disastrous results, these soldiers were 3-5 times more likely to be killed or seriously injured in combat.
When did this happen?
Not only were the soldiers sent to war slaves, but mentally disabled as well.
@@Oliver0200 October 1st 1966: Google for McNamara's Folly, or McNamara's Morons.
Not only did these unsuitable draftees die disproportionately, so did members of their squads and platoons.
War had changed since the Revolutionary and Civil wars, it needed thinking men - all the way down.
And the ones that survived were COMPLETELY head-fucked....
I was low IQ and labeled border line retarded. They let me in and I was asked how the hell did I get past meps and basic training. They were nice and actually helped me grow mentally and now I can reid and right beter than ever.
The point being...not everybody has what it takes, physically, mentally, spiritually to be a Marine. Trying to force it...is bad for both sides in terms of wasted time, effort and, resources. Pyle should have been washed out but, Hartman's pride was both their undoing. The concept of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole exists for a very sound reason.
It's been years since I've seen FMJ, but I think you're right about Hartman's pride being both his and Pyle's undoing.
Yes, exactly. That is the reason that our modern military is volunteer and all parties involved agree that this is far superior to drafting and general enlistment.
@@cyberpimp29 I have mixed feelings about the draft. On the one hand, yes - I agree. A volunteer military is going to be a better trained one, I would think. But on the other hand, it seems to me that if a country is determined - after exhausting every other possibility - that war is the only way forward, then everyone should be involved in some way. If not fit for a Marine or Navy or whatever - let them do whatever they can. I still remember Bush, Jr. telling everyone to go on that vacation, buy that new car - he even lowered taxes! And it became very easy for the public to ignore the cost of those wars - personal, and financial. We might have not had the mess we've had, if we had used conscription. Iraq and Afghanistan might have ended as Vietnam did. Just a thought.
@@curiousworld7912 appreciate the thoughts, but cannot agree. In a Republic with citizens that all have equal rights under the law, the draft is abhorrent. If a war is so unpopular that you cant find enough volunteers to wage it, then the war should not happen.
I'm with you though that a draft could be implemented if its a WW3, America is invaded type situation...
@@cyberpimp29 Believe me - it's not how I'd like to think about this. I remember the dread some of my older sister's friends held for the draft, way back in Vietnam days. But I think it made the war so unpopular, and it was obvious there was no 'winning' going to happen, it finally ended. And again; my feeling that if a country believes it can't do anything but fight, then all should have some stake in it. If that was the case; perhaps we'd be less likely to get into some boondoggle. I don't know...
The book this is based on shows that Hartman suspects Pyle is going crazy, but he intimidates the recruits into keeping quiet about it, because he's already had several other recruits drop out and if he loses Pyle as well, it will bring unwanted attention from his superiors. So he just wants Pyle to get through the training so he can move on and be someone else's problem.
Well that backfired
@@MASTEROFEVIL
Quite literally
@@MASTEROFEVIL well in Hartman case the plan forward fired in front of him.
Pyle's story made me cry because i can relate to his situation: wanting to be someone you are not meant to be or just cant become, and being tortured for it
Same. People are cruel.
Pyle's story made me pissed off because in my own cadet life I have to deal with shitbags like him that drag the rest of us down
Puked story is harsh because everyone turned their back on him even the one who understood him and knew it was wrong. Joker abandoned his better instincts even after seeing what that did to pyle
It’s sad that there are expectations for people to fit into places on this world they were never intended for and the truly heart breaking part is you need to sacrifice the very core of who you are to become a viable component within it. Like feeling the crushing weight of the true death of anything pure and innocent that the world rejects
It wasnt that he couldn't. He had no idea what he wanted as do most people that join the military. Pyle was a lighthearted guy who realized he dug himself into a deep grave. Regardless of what he wanted this is where hes at and at the end of it all if he didnt make that turn he wouldnt have made it in the marines especially in the middle of a war. But making that turn helped him realize that life wasnt the fairytale he once believed it to be and he made the very adult decision to take it into his own hands and end it. Now i know this sounds bad but life is hard and there are no breaks. There is a heightened level of responsibility you will have to continue to adjust to as you get older all the way until you leave this world. Some people recognize this and take their time to enjoy the small things and there are others who make it their primary fixation like the drill Sargeant who made his identity in the army his whole life. Pyle fell on the opposite side of the spectrum as one who doesnt participate at all
I don't think it's correct to interpret Pyle as "turning evil" in the end of the film. That's a shallow interpretation. The dude had a psychotic break. His brain simply could not deal with the harsh realities of the world he found himself in, which he calls "a world of sh*t." Same thing happened with the computer HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey. Two irreconcilable systems of programming in one brain. A solution cannot be found, and a complete breakdown of the psyche occurs.
The psychic break was the point, there was no portray of him as evil, atleast I never picked up on an evil pile interpretation
@@HPAcustomriflesandcerakote correct. Leonard was never evil. he was literally tortured into insanity.
The dude had an obvious learning disability, and was dragged there along the hardass wannabes.
@@vittocrazi I wouldn’t jump to learning disability it’s just how some people are
@@MangaSlayer102 yes. And some people have invisible disabilities that never get adressed. Of course, on a mediocre preparation to senda them to war they would not pay too much atention to it
He acts like being being pushed over the breaking point and killing your DI is the same as evil lol
A heartwarming story about a man's struggle with weight loss.
brought to you by Dunckin donuts!
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Hahaha
is that you john wayne
2:56 In an interview, Gunny said that when he was a DI during Vietnam, the government needed more Marines so boot camp was cut from like 14 weeks down to 10 or some such thing. He said that many DI's turned barbaric and brutal because they didn't understand how to accelerate the training. He said that HE never became brutal, but some of his colleagues did.
That's probably where he drew his motivation from. Yet another masterful tact from the legend! RIP Gunny.
@@Rollercoaster555 dang man, i salute you, even tho i dont like this country, but im glad you made it out, was it scary there? i had a friend (im in rural alaska) whos dad was in vietnam.
tl;dr : what was it like there?
@@Ronn_V swim ur ass over to Russia then.
@@Ronn_V Q10
@@Rollercoaster555 Thank you, welcome home, and Get Some!
You are wrong. Hartman absolutely knows they will "motivate" him (blanket parties at this time were SOP). They were not "evil". Hartman was betting the peer pressure and retaliation would be enough to get him to do what is expected. It is a closed environment and he would never expect him to have a live weapon off the range. It was an overconfidence in a common practice, not a miscalculation.
They know they’ll motivate him - he just doesn’t know how they’ll do it. That was my point. And what they did to Pyle was evil in my opinion.
Not a question of Pyle’s motivation. It is assumes that no matter who it is, when “properly” motivated, they will respond. Yeah, they will, sometimes badly. Pyle could have killed many in his barracks, not just Hartman. All men are NOT the same. Pyle might have been just fine in a non-combat, support roll...that actually happens in the Marine Corp. and there are NO combat Marines without a ton of supporting personnel...who are also Marines.
@@Timinator2K10 That's exactly my point. Some men will respond better. But some men, like Pyle, who clearly aren't fit for this environment, is it worth the experiment? I suppose many would say, yes. Hartman would. I'm not sure I personally would agree with him. I have no problem with what Hartman did up until he gave a vague instruction.
@@LifeIsAStory I agree with the OP, Hartman knew precisely what kind of motivation was going to be provided. It was the norm to do so in the Marines, or worse - ala the "Code Red" of A Few Good Men. Is it "evil"? I don't consider that to be a simple question with a cut and dry answer. And I say that as a devout Christian. I think it ~could be considered evil. I would say, in this instance, it was certainly misguided. It was the wrong action for this individual. I think Joker's actions are more important than the actions of the others. I think it is a much easier argument to make that Joker's act of betrayal was an evil act. I think Pyle doesn't snap if Joker doesn't join in. I definitely don't think Harman's "suggestion" was evil. It was, again, par for the course in the Marines.
The second thing I would mention is that it is often difficult for us, in this hyper aware, psychologically sensitive day and age, to review such movies - or more precisely, the actions and time in which such movies take place. Trying to impart a modern sensibility on a 1960's mentality, and a military mentality at that, is a precarious thing to attempt. There was no catering to weak, sensitive types at that time, especially not in the military. That's not to say that our assessments are necessarily wrong, but I would argue that they are moot to a large degree, b/c we are bringing sensibilities that simply did not exist back then.
My dad was a Marine (deceased), and it was not uncommon - at all, for recruits to die, as Drill Instructors marched them off through the swamps with full ruck sacks on their back, knowing there was a real chance that a recruit was going to drown when he stepped into a deep pocket/hole. My dad said 2 recruits from other companies died while he was on Paris Island, from drowning in the swamps. It was a very different world back then - mid 50's for him.
As for myself, I joined the Navy in 1989 (19 yrs old). I am a very sensitive person. I was also a very soft person back then. Bootcamp was a nightmare for me, and I hated every minute I was in the Navy. Sure, I changed on the outside, but inside, I was deeply, deeply miserable, b/c that was not who I "was". But even at that time, no one was interested in catering to my soft nature. Nor would I have expected them to.
That being said, I found your overall thematic interpretation very interesting.
@@vijabe I appreciate it. And I appreciate the comment. I get where you're coming from. It is difficult to define evil. And I've had people in the comments say that what they did is just the price paid to create competent soldiers. Fair enough. I think Kubrick was worried about what this was doing to the minds of soldiers. If you look at the second half of the film, sex is emphasized very heavily (as it is in other Kubrick films) and the scenes feel useless in a sense, but it appears to me that Kubrick felt that humans in general (not just soldiers) had become too overcome by their human instincts (violence, sex, ext.). Did the Marines dehumanize themselves when they did that to Pyle? Tough question to answer. So I suppose what I'm trying to get at is, there isn't just a cost for Pyle, there is a cost to the Marines who did what they did. I think that what Kubrick is trying to get at. And remember, although Kubrick surely knew the military well, the Vietnam War is simply a place to put forth themes and ideas. He put them in many different settings during his career.
Full Metal Jacket was ostensibly an antiwar film, but it turned into one of the greatest recruiting tools for the USMC. Every Marine I know has seen it at least once. Many joined because of it, not in spite of.
Reminds me of my brother a bit. I took him aside and warned him that the cost may be high, we were supposedly Christian and I felt it was against our beliefs at the time. I kept bringing up, you know you may have to kill people, people that might not be bad, might have families, etc etc, on some meaningless government whim. All he said was, "Yeah? I know." After that he smiled at me and I felt sick to my stomach.
@@AffyisAffy that’s not your brother anymore that’s a government war criminal :(
@@AffyisAffy in the bible doesnt it say, if ure a soldier "just" dont do evil. But one can be one.
It's based of a book called the short timers... the sequel is called the phantom blooper
@@AffyisAffy It's something that people that join the military don't know until they're already in. Everyone thinks they're cool and badass until they get in and actually do their job. Then people wake up usually. The people that don't realize something is wrong at some point are too far gone.
Nearly everyone in the military hates something that goes on, whether it's the way soldiers are treated, bad leadership, politics etc. The ones that join the system and forget what it was like to be a private are the ones who usually make things worse and perpetuate the system.
D'Onofrio is an awesome actor.
He and Kathryn Erbe are hands-down the best detective team in the Law and Order-verse.
I couldnt see anybody else playing wilson fisk now same goes for charlie as daredevil
@@tomh.2405 Goran even outplayed Brisco.
@John S. Right? hahaha
Ur mom is
They should’ve named Whiplash, Full Metal Tempo.
NOT MY FUCKING TEMPO
Makes me wonder what Full Metal Alchemist could be about
@@fgp0032 That's what they should have called Breaking Bad
@@filmishit HAHAHA
Not quite my tempo.
NOT MY FUCKING TEMPO!!!
Pyle is really a great example of a theme that permeates the film. He illustrates the cruelty of the system that drove him to suicide. It's shocking when he kills Hartman and himself, and at that point I think that Kubrick really kicked off the horrific showing of how the military crushes people, how the bureaucratic awfulness of it all destroys the souls of countless kids.
That's literally the least shocking and most satisfying scene in the movie.
In a way it is too satisfying and reduces the tension. I would have preferred if Hartman got away with it.
he didn't die, he killed of the 'weak part' of himself and now he's Animal Mother.
I'm an old Marine..E-5, six years. Offered E-6 to re-up. Proud, but, turned it down. I agree with your viewpoint.
@@MrCmon113 i know I'm two years late but this is such a gross misinterpretation of the film - not at all a satisfying moment
The actor (for Pyle) did such a good job. I hope he is both proud and knows that he was part of an iconic movie that may very well never meet it's match.
I mean he still acts.. he’s in a few big name productions. He was kingpin in the punisher/daredevil for one.
He ruined his health getting fat for the role, he never really got his physical health back but he’s a terrific actor/
@@lunadarling5598 He was the alien in an Edgar-suit in Men In Black!
@@lunadarling5598 I knew I recognized him from somewhere
his name is Vincent D'Onofrio.
It’s true that drill instructors are responsible for creating, as you say, killing machines. But if you watch interviews with DIs who served during the Vietnam era, they saw themselves as carrying a much greater burden. They were trying to teach those kids how to survive, and at least some of them felt personal responsibility for the fate of their trainees. War is an altogether inexcusable affair, but it falls to the DI to teach military personnel how not to die.
Agreed, I think they deserve a lot of credit for forcing themselves to have to play the badguy only so their men can be tough enough for actual war
very good, we had some great DIs, many WW2 and Korean War vets, we respected most of them because like many of them said, "I didn't plan on staying in the army after Korea, until I realized the best thing I could do was train young men how to survive combat, and these are the guys you really love, cause being loved by someone in the chain of command is most important for soldiers.
@@davisworth5114,
I’m so glad you added your comments. Thank you for sharing your observations. This topic might not be Earth-shattering, but I still think it’s important for people hear.
@@davisworth5114
Revisiting your comment, I hope you stop by again. I think there’s more to what you wrote than I recognized when I read it the first time. Can you expand on why the emotional connection between soldiers and those further up the chain of command was so important? I apologize if it’s obvious, but it’s not obvious to me (I can be pretty slow on the uptake) and I’d like to really understand what you said.
Rightly So, in all branches of the US Military!Blessings to all my Brothers & Sisters in Arms. Very Sad indeed it those day, we all had no respect of our citizen counter parts. However, I can personally say as for myself I never lost respect of us all who served and what I was called to do.
I read that in the book when Pyle kills Hartman (or, the Hartman character whose name in the book escapes me) Hartman tells Pyle that he's proud of him before he dies, because he had turned him into a killer. I'd have liked to have seen that in Full Metal Jacket.
Although that would be nice on paper, it makes the next scene (his su1c1d3) way weaker
God I wish The Shorttimers would go back into print. I like to make a point of reading the source material, but the book is a bit out of my price range right now.
Omg that should’ve been shown!
It doesn't happen exactly like that. It comes off as more of a final plea in my opinion. He starts chewing him out and then flips his strategy. Pyles death is I bit ambiguous, yes he shoots but the whole time he's begging his gun no. It's different for sure
I didn't read the book, and you give a crutial point !
For me the suicide of Pyle in the film is the wrong thing that kills the film. It's just Pyle turning crazy and Hartmann barking as usual. If Hartmann had say in the film what you explained, I would have an other opinion of this scene.
Fletcher and Hartman both achieved exactly their goal with both Nieman and Pyle. Their same goal was to break their student down and rebuild them from the outside in, turning them into what they wanted their students to be.
The problem with this is that its infinitely harder to rebuild something than it is to destroy it. The trouble with building outside in is that you can only ever see the surface. The inside may still be in shambles. Hartman wanted a mindless killer who's thoughts were always about ending the enemy, and that's what he got. The machine he built couldn't differentiate Hartman from the idea of the "enemy". Nieman, likewise, became a very impressive and skilled musician, as Fletcher wanted, but isolated, walled off from any human connection, bitter, angry, vindictive and selfish. Another Fletcher, who will probably inflict similar torment on someone he mentally abuses, and the wheel turns.
The only difference being that Hartman suffered negatively for his breakage of a young man's psyche, whereas Fletcher revelled with pride at the hollow automaton he created.
Yeah I think that’s a good breakdown of both of them. Much appreciated. I didn’t want to spend too much time on them although I was tempted haha
The Marines break you down for your own good and the rest of your unit you might come in as a hustler.. akid from the country but when you get through basic hopefully you you understand that you're a marine part of something bigger than you trained to kill and not just murder people combat is a bit ch when you go home you're not a killer you're a vet most who survive will never talk about it I have a friend that is an army ranger Vietnam era he can't watch combat movies and shows it to real you carry out with the rest of your life if the di s did what you see in this movie it was to give you the tools to survive. War is up close and personal crazy if you make it home that basic training help you get there I was in n the army basic had the most unreal feeling at times it was just like this it will change you just wrapping you head around the purpose of it took a lot yes we trained to pull the trigger it's the only way to go we're put in situations nobody should be in this movie always puts me back there some of the others washed out no shame...the dis we had were crazy the ways to train us were better than this but when you and your squad crawled through the live fire course m60 rounds three feet over your head you will be different I just kept thinking to myself damn damn tracers over my head lucky me they're not shooting at my training makes the odds better that you make it home
Well in that case then Hartman accomplished what he set out to do... the senior drill instructor is the enemy and the recruits become a cohesive unit and don't rat on each other , will gladly suffer together , by the end of recruit training they have figured out that daddy was actually the enemy. That he was ordering the junior drill instructors to cause chaos and stress you the fuck out.
My father spent 30 years trying to break me down, but im still ....me 😎
Gomer Pyle was also a commentary on McNamara's 100,000 where the military was forced to lower their recruiting standards to meet quotas instead of accepting qualified applicants. It was to illustrate that by forcing the acceptance of handicapped individuals, they would not only put themselves in danger, but would endanger everyone around them by holding them back.
Absolutely! Just made the same point before seeing your post lol.
And why? Think about it! There is no more a question of western values, free speech, free though, not at all! Poor Pyle was trained to defend rich people's prosperity, golden watches, diamonds and other useless stuff!
Sarge Hartman was a tool, which was made to kill softness, love, empathy, heartness from these poor lads. Lads, who were educated by their mothers and other female siblings.
Everyone could remember, how USA messed itself to 'Nam war: president Ike was scared shit to his pants, when someone joke-thrower yelled: COMMIES ARE COMING! So, American elite does not be afraid that communists are going to kill them. No. They were afraid, that communism will take their prosperity (which are made by greed and robbing!). This will lead that political power is no more in the elite's hands.
Look at Vietnam now. How many solfiers were killed or mentally ruined for nothing? President Tricky Dick masturbated in his Oval Office every time, when he got reports telling B-52 bomber raids. Tricky Dick, elite's reliable lap-dog!
Why the hell we even have a God's Law in our Bibles: "Thou shall not kill"?
"lower their standards"
I dont understand what that means, i see that phrase used a lot. what, someone who does 15 pushups isnt qualified to become a soldier, but someone who can do 20, is? a war is won by doing 5 extra push ups in PT? because the requirements for the role of a air force accountant is the same as a marine infantry? come on dude, what are you on about?
some people are fit for the life style, others aren't. Pyle should've been washed out, or different methods of training should've been tried. this isnt a matter of "standards lowered". nobody has ever used the phrase "lower standards" with good intentions. usually it's loophole language to discriminate on the basis of gender or skin color.
@@jsmith434w Lower their standards? Its just a simple thing: collect all the heroinists and other black drug abusers from Bronx and send them to Nam.
Problem solved, when these youngsters returned to USA in coffins. Police officers laughed loudly!
this is a current problem in south korea due to declining birth rates
Having been through boot camp, I’d say that the depiction here is pretty spot on. I never saw anyone get their ass beat by a DI or by recruits. But the group punishment, the intentional humiliation, the off the wall, creative remarks by DIs, and the dark humor speeches are all absolutely true. I think most people are able to adapt to the situation, but sometimes it just flat out breaks people. Some of the fittest, most Moto poolees I knew ended up washing out, and some of the most out of shape fat bodies, managed to excel and make it to the end with flying colors.
Some people broke simply because they actually thought the fleet was gonna be like boot camp. These were the sheltered but those of that grew up with the faja and the yelling from momma and daddy had a blast.
Perhaps having obtained physical fitness is a sign of self reliance and pride which clashes with being turned into a bitch.
@@MrCmon113 Not a Bitch, a "Tool" being turned into a "Bitch" would be a lot less involved, and Demeaning. lol
Sometimes, it's the DI's who crack. I won't out anyone, but I've seen one thing that would have gotten a DI arrested, and another DI in another platoon was arrested for punching a recruit. Of course, you hear about the occasional DI suicide. I remember my platoon's senior drill instructor was much more of a asshole when he found out that he'd have one more cycle after us. They're under tremendous pressure.
Pyle lost his family (when Joker punished him, which he considered a betrayal) and thus the world become cold, dark and totally blank for him imo. The driving force behind this loss was the drill sgt., so he took his revenge on him, then ended his life, since he had nothing to live for. The drill sgt. also can be viewed as a real evil force imo, a curruptor, as he motives human beings to become feared murderers.
MARINES HAVE DRILL INSTRUCTORS DROP AND GIVE ME 50 !!!!!
@@184876ela kek
The common mentality I’ve heard from a former DI is that they are terrified of sending someone improperly prepared for battle. They push recruits to the end of their rope without compassion because there is none on the battlefield.
We are now a purely volunteer force and all the more effective for it. In modern times a draft would not work at all and much of why started in Vietnam.
You cannot tell who is evil and who is not everyone of us has an inner demon inside why? Humans are not created perfect we all have evils and madness but war is the only environment were all humans worst trait and inner demons shows. It's understandable in training that the drill instructor push every recruits to the limit even encouraging one to be a trained and cold blooded killer in war there is no mercy and a weak person is as good as dead as he is alive why you cannot survive even a single day in combat if your weak
Negative. They are not "murderers", they are killers. There is a difference.
Saw the movie a few days after my 16th birthday. While as a teen I enjoyed the first 10 minutes of the film full of verbal abuse, I also was shocked by its message which I understood as "the horror of a human having been turned into a killing machine becomes even more obvious when that killing machine attacks its own people".
Which has more horror, the killing machine or the trainer that trains you to be a killing machine?
@@theyear750bc yes i found that the horrific part of it was how this lifestyle, military basic training, and the turning of men into killers, is glorified. that's the truly horrific part.
The Blanket party was necessary for the recruits (and especially Joker) to cut off their humanity and become killing machines. The murder of Hartman is actually portrayed in the original book "The Short-Timers" as well, but it was in front of the entire platoon, rather than in the bathroom. Also, in the book, Pyle wasn't the only struggling recruit.
Most soldiers do not take part in blanket parties, but it is good to learn who the sadists are. You keep ignorantly stating the faulty premise of this vid. is to "cut off their humanity", just spouting absurdities.
Blanket party sounds good for a BDSM enthusiast
the look on Pyle's face as Hartman is praising the marksmanship of Lee Harvey Oswald... he's freaking gone at that point. Totally insane.
The way that the acting was able to so accurately depict a man at that point is just...........scary good.
No the same facts were told to our platoon during the two weeks at the rifle training range. And this was in 1979, years before this Kubrick film was made. This was a case of art imitating life.
Semper Fi
@@uberknott4472 ?
Dafuq did this comment come from?
My comment and the OP's comment are both focusing on the look on Pyle's face. The fuck does that have to do with what you're saying out of left corner, Crayola Muncher?
@@uberknott4472 The same facts? What are you talking about
Do Any Of You people Know Who Charles Whitman was😆 Yeah a lunatic
I’d love a army haircut montage where one guy already wears his hair that short and the barber doesn’t know what to do.
Doesn't matter. The barber will still cut the fuzz.
@@stevenbass732 the fuzz, any moles, bumps or lumps. You don’t come out of a 30 second haircut without some collateral damage.
I loved how after we got ours cut the DI told us to remove our cover and rub our head once before replacing the cover. He said that was it and he didn’t want to catch us rubbing it again. Lll
@@chrissmith7669 Yep. My fondest memory of the first haircut was when a black guy came in with a gorgeous afro. The black barber asked him if he'd like to keep the fro. Of course he said yes. IDK how the barber did it, but he made 5-6 cuts lifted the fro off and set in the guys lap.
BTW, you're right about the collateral damage.
@@stevenbass732 thats hilarious. "keep the fro", lol.
@@maxten I know. I still, after all these years, haven't figured out how that barber did it.
During Army basic training we had this big meathead guy named Thacker and he was just like Leonard, he was big and strong but slow and didnt have many friends in the platoon, I tried giving him advice but eventually he just rtt'd which means refused to train which basically means you quit and get chaptered out and sent home. He freaked out over the gas chamber and eagle tower. Some people would make fun of him but mostly people were cool with him. Honestly glad he lives today because honestly i dont know what would happen to him if he was in during the vietnam era, he may have ended up just like Leonard in this movie. This was back when there wasnt much rules and regulations and society as a whole was different.
The second half of this movie is extremely underrated. I hate how it is overshadowed by the first half.
Had Pyle been in my platoon at Parris Island back in 1970 he would have gotten a bus ticket home quickly , I left Cincinnati with three other guys and we all ended up in the same platoon , I was the only one in the four of us to earn the title.
Was marine bootcamp even more intense than army basic training back then?
i think qhat really broke Pyle was Joker taking part and beating him hardest. it was a betrayal in Pyle's eyes. i forget, but were Joker and Pyle still Battlebuddies after the blanket party?
Could he have represented macnamara's morons? Was that only an army thing since they got most of the draftees?
I don't know branch but I do know that all attempts to get rid of lower IQs were ignored after the IQ standards were lowered.
I met a man 30 years older than me who was drafted into the Army. His IQ was so simple that his job became setting up volleyball nets, taking out the trash, etc. for his time served. When I met him, his job was the basically the same in a different setting.
@@robzilla730 I got betrayed by 5 Christians in a row. I broke. Took me years to heal, speaking Bible verses over myself, and worship. Now better than ever, praise the Lord.
Every boot camp platoon has at least one recruit like "Gomer Pyle." They don't usually murder the Senior Drill Instructor however. And it is perfectly normal for the Drill Instructor to punish the entire platoon for one person's mistakes. There's a reason they do that. There's a reason why they scream and holler and create an atmosphere of chaos...because combat is chaotic, loud, and supremely stressful and you have to be able to function with all that going on.
I laughed and got sick to my stomach while watching a video when a colonel or general of some sort was interviewing a recruit who was in the midst of his first day of what passes for Army boot camp now. He asked the private if what he was doing was stressful, and the private said flat out, "No, sir! I thought it would be worse." More than that, the NCOIC who was with the recruit, actually corrected him and got the recruit to say it was stressful. But nothing of what they showed would have even taken place on the most relaxed day when I went through even only 30 years ago. We are so screwed if soldiers today are ever sent to a stressful place, because they will have never experienced true stress until that moment, and none of their fellow soldiers has any idea how they will perform.
@@desertrat7634 That's absolutely unsat. No way they're going to be able to function in combat. I don't even have the words my friend, I feel sorry them. Thanks for your service and sacrifice, Semper Fidelis.
Yeah, making your so called “brothers” turn on you and hate you. Makes you feel real safe and capable to go into combat when you are depending on them to have your back 🙄
@@CausticSpace The record of the Marine Corps in combat speaks for itself. Yes, it's harsh to say the least, but combat is no day at the playground either my friend it's brutal, incomprehensibly so.
@@chrisnizer5702 Compared to other similar forces, they aren’t all that good :/ higher casualties, higher suicides, and a bad win loss ration in comparison to other forces. Even in the U.S they aren’t all that, Army Rangers slap them around. The whole Marines are the best and few is just recruitment propaganda. In terms of skills the average marine is the same as an average us army soldier.
Amazing Kubrick stumbles onto a hidden truth -
evil carries the seeds of it's own destruction but
on the surface, it often appears to be stronger than good but
only for a time.
Exactly, evil cannot conquer good, and when it came closest to doing so (in my own belief, the death of Christ) that only ended up working against evil because Christ's death led to good for all who believe Him, God made it so that even what was meant for evil, would turn around for good, putting evil to an absolute shame
@@alexm7627 I think you switched good and evil in your first sentence
@@mariaelenaelena8774 thanks for pointing that out! My bad! 😅
I don't think Kubrick "stumbles" into anything. He knows exactly what he's doing. There isn't another director as sure footed a Kubrick.
@@mariaelenaelena8774 Lol I didn't realize the other dude edited his comment and I thought you were just being edgy
My ring tone is Sgt Hartman screaming
" well anyfkn time sweetheart !! "
Listened to D’Onofrio talk about getting the role and then putting on 80lbs to appear like a slob. Said it was rough gaining all that weight in just fat and blew out his knee. This is an awesome movie with great method acting and think it helped having R Lee Ermey a real drill sergeant to act the role.
I went through boot camp on Parris Island in 1984 and never saw a jelly doughnut :)
I was there in 76 and I never saw a jelly doughnut either.
Just think of what Pyle had to do to get that jelly doughnut.
I went to Great Lakes and I didn't see em either
My brother spent the summer of 1954 there as a 17 year old.
What guys called the old Corp.
In 1955-1956 a DI managed to get a bunch of his recruits killed by March them through a swamp at night carrying full gear weighing in excess of 50 lbs.
Basic was changed with a heavier emphasis on PT after that.
rather than brutality.
My brothers stories made this movie seem like child play.
Mess and maint week, they are there
Group punishment is as old as organized military training. It's a proven technique that builds cohesion within the platoon and sorts out recruits that refuse to do the job. From my experience it's rarely a Pvt Pyle, but an aggressive wannabe hard man or a barracks room lawyer.
This training is necessary to build the level of discipline and training essential for soldiers going into combat.
The training NCO rarely takes pleasure in this process unless he's an evil psychopath.
@Jonathan Spier
Mainly just marines with a retention rate of 18% compare that to the army’s 92%
@Jonathan Spier i would say its more bc of chain of command
Yeah, _hazing_ is common in other organizations too.
Ni
No
I was in the army and we had a guy like Pyle and I was assigned to be his Joker and to help him. But unlike Joker I did not participate in the blanket party. He eventually cracked and was taken to the looney bin. I sometimes wonder whatever happened to that kid. He's probably a senator Lol.
On you for being his joker at the very least you can definitely say that you did try
Or maybe the current President. Just sayin'
@@txdrmr trump was a draft dodger. He never served. Biden on the other hand was in university.
@@txdrmr the current president is like 500 years old
@@binbows2258 he’s literally 3 years older than the last president
I witnessed that kind of change in someone I trained with, and it was a massive contrast of who he was, that kid won't be the same.
@@Javireviewsthings they say go as a man not a kid
Once you break a child, you'd better have a fucking manual because you're gonna create a monster if you don't know what you're doing.
We had a guy flip like that in AIT, he didn't kill anyone, but it was a trip. He went over the edge over a weekend and I was on fire duty that weekend. Last I knew he was under 3 point restraint. He never came back, so I never got my jumper cables back that were in his trunk.
Yup. I saw how recruit training changes someone. Also, processing and serving in their unit changes them as well. Basic is just the beginning of a major transformation. A person changes in Basic, in his unit and on deployment. Each challenge is more difficult than the last, with the VA (Veteran Affairs) being the most difficult in many ways.
The fade to black-screen between the Paris Island camp location and Vietnam war-zone was the most important scene-transition in cinematic history.
I was in Army BCT in 1975. At the end of each training day we turned in all the weapons back to the armorer. It was literally impossible to take one into the latrine. And we were watched so closely it was equally impossible to get hold of any live rounds back to the barracks. Even the qty while loading our magazines was closely monitored.
This is a great movie and the most realistic boot camp sequence of any film. One minor problem: Parris Island recruits do not button their top button.
I did my recruit training at MCRD San Diego. We had to button our top button all through 1st phase of training (there were three phases when I did it in 86'). Once we moved on to 2nd phase we unbuttoned the top button. By the time I went in things had changed dramatically in recruit training from prior years due to some seriously excessive recruit deaths as a result of batshit-insane DI's. In 83' one fuck-O DI marched an entire training platoon into the swamps of Parris Island which resulted in the drowning deaths of five recruits. Then in 85' at MCRD another nutjob DI who was pissed at his squad made them run the tap water until scalding hot then ordered the recruits to fill their canteens and then forced them to drink the scaling hot water. One recruit died and about 20 were seriously injured. So when I went in July of 86' DI's could no longer punch or slap you. They had workarounds though, they would spit on you and even kick you on occasion and if you were a real fuck-up they would take you into the "whiskey locker" which is the supply room, close the door, and beat the shit outta you but that rarely happened.
I did in 1974, MCRD San Diego. 1st phase. Do your research, pilgram.
@@lewjames6688 What does MCRD San Diego have to do with anything.
@@lewjames6688 Having gone through Parris Island, I can tell you unequivocally that recruits do not button their top button. Perhaps you should learn your place. San Diego isn't real boot camp anyway. Why would anybody admit that. A So.Cal. beach and boot camp?... righhht. There is no boot camp without that swamp smell and 17 acres of grinder.
@@jimangela4589 Well supposedly both follow the same rules.
I graduated MCRD PI a long time ago and this is the most accurate basic training movie ever.
Missing alot of the ass play though
@@bigdbob7929 you must have been in 2nd battalion haha
3rd BTN MCRD SD 1963, the close a movie has ever come to the real thing. SF
@@bigdbob7929 Soaps were dropped intentionally?
@@dexterlacroy4132 nut to butt is how the showers work my dude
I have to agree, when watching Full Metal Jacket it is best to view it as 2 phases of a process. Also as someone with significant military experience Hartman knew exactly what the rest of the platoon would do to Pyle.
Ha, I've seen this movie so many times and have always thought, how the HeLL did Pyle get a gun into the shower?
The interesting thing about Pyle to me is that Kubrick got me to feel for him, have compassion for him, like I would a child, but also got me to laugh at him, mock him and disdain him. So the character Pyle exposed my own very real duality, to me. i was Joker.
The first half of the movie has a lot of that.
Great insight!
D'onofrio gave a masterful performance. He really did look just like a little kid when Joker was showing him how to execute the commands with his rifle.
I appreciate your candidness but why did you view him with disdain? What fault was it of his that you would feel disdain for the poor guy?
It saddens me to hear this because I had an older cousin like Pyle that the village children would laugh at and ridicule. He was a soft and very loving character.
One day I was walking with him, he was always barefooted as he didn't like shoes (the Mediterranean is hot in the summer) and a group of kids saw him and started their usual crap on him. The joy he had of having met me in the street suddenly turned to this tangible sadness in his eyes and it just killed me.
I was 11 years old at the time. I picked up three or four good-sized stones and threw them at their heads. I was a pretty good shot and a couple of the stones found their mark. I picked up some more stones to throw at them but they run off effing and blinding. I walked my cousin home and told his father what had happened and who some of those idiots.
Weird. I don't think this movie ever got me laughing at him. Sociopath.
@@PopADoseYo Hey well at least you know a persons morals by how they view people. Lets you know who to stay away from
I agree with your last message, everyone takes their fortune into their own hands. But combat isn't just human nature. There are exterior factors involved. Politics, friendships and psychology. A human will not be broken down that simply. Just as you do say in your part two. We all react differently to these very stressful situations. Go to boot camp once. You'll understand motivations much better. Reactions will be different of course. Good analysis by the way!
Thank you much appreciated! And I agree with what you’re saying mostly. There are a lot of layers to these films that are worth discussing but when I look at movies, I always gravitate towards ideas about human nature, and I think Kubrick did the same in his movies for the most part. Although he did include political messages for sure.
Combat mainly is human nature. To fight with oneself over resources. Instead of cooperating amd coordinating. Politics are entirely human concepts as are governments. Ants and whatnot do come close, however they serve in the natural world to survive.. we serve in other conflicts that arise from other human conflicts. The only conflicts most countries face are human related conflicts. Food shortages in some countries for example. Couldve been solved with coordination and cooperation.
Meanwhile many others waste. Food shortages in most places of the world technically would be human related considering the technological advancements humans have achieved. Yet we csnt even feed ourselves? Come on.. most of the us economy is based off wars and fighting them. Ww2. Vietnam korea the list goes on.
All wars are fought over lack of resources due greed or human idiocy. Or literally ideologies. Hence crusades.
The only natural conflicts are the ones in well... nature. Fighting to survive. Whether it be environment or predators. To survive is a natural fight. To fight for oneselfs beliefs, good or bad, your own gain, or any reason you decide on. Is fabricated. By you, and anyone who partakes.
Sometimes you need to fight for the good of something. But the problem your facing is either human created, related, or could eased with peaceful human interaction
Catch my drift?
Tldr:
Humans are asshats that create most of their own problems and blames it on other factors.
All wars are included.
Ps. Maybe art school should be more accepting too.
I did basic (Canadian Army) in 1977. We had one guy in my platoon who must have barely passed the aptitude tests as he was a very low IQ recruit. We actually found the staff went out of their way to get him through, including giving him a “tutor” which was one of the top recruits to give him extra help. He did make it through mostly because he was motivated to be there. The ones that didn’t make it usually quit on themselves.
Great video. When I went through Recruit Training, my platoon had a Pyle. The poor guy had no business being there. We suffered for his mistakes for 3 weeks until he got injured.
You were probably the Pyle
I was.
We also had a Pyle, I even called him Pyle. That guy was such a fuckup while we were supposed to be straightening up our areas before getting our graduation release brief.the idiot fell asleeep.. our TI had to wake him up. He kept denying being asleep. Finally he admitted it. When the TI asked why, instead of saying he was tired he said it was because he was bored lmao. He didn't get to leave the base with his family for graduation celebration lol.
Every platoon has a least one "Pyle"
They are not usually bad people, just unfit for the task.
The problem is when you cannot send them off but you are obliged to work with them, train them and try to make them deliver...
Most of times they are a danger to themselves and their teammates
Realizing that there would be no movie or story to tell if it had happened, the reality of it all is that the only thing Pyle needed was a free bus ticket back home. He never was Marine Corps material. And he never was going to be. In the real world, he was just a recruitment error. He shouldn't have been allowed to enlist in the first place.
you should read up on Mcnamara's morons.
there legitimately was a period when people who scored below Average were thrown into the thick of the fighting.
@@boarfaceswinejaw4516 Yup! Not to mention Vietnam forced the Draft. Lots of folks who weren't "cut" for service.
In a harsh world we must show patience and forgiveness to people like Leonard.
That could be your little brother, your child, co worker, spouse, etc.
Genuine love casts out all fear.
Everyone learns at different speeds in different ways. I believe a lot of homelessness, suicides, murders, and people turned insane is from parents treating their babies like how this DI treated Leonard.
The impact this had on, at least US Army basic training [I can't speak for the other Services - they are all different] - was a profound impact. I went to basic in '97 - we weren't *allowed* to take our M16s into the latrene (bathroom) *because* of FMJ - not even the port-a-potties in the field. Our Battle Buddy had to hold onto them. I also speculate - though it is a very muddled quasi-urban-legend subject to investigate - that the whole "Stress Card" thing, has at least *some* origins in FMJ. Basically amounting to, "Don't push the Privates too much, or they might kill you - we need to have a corrective action for this fictional possibility... we need a way for Privates to indicate they have had enough, that is neutral in the assessment of stress. Hey, how about a mood-ring card?" Something like that. I wonder how that influence has evolved up to today?
Modern army basically had an open door policy. We had someone who broke mentally and they just had someone walk with them to a DS and they spilled their heart and guts out. 5 weeks later she was gone
@@hackermangage1703 Okay, so about the same as when I was in. For the record, I never saw (I don't think anyone saw) are REAL "stress card" - it would have to have an National Stock Number as an official Army form, DA-Something-or-other.
Never heard of such a form.
I think the stress card, in reality, is right up there with, "The Buffer Hanging" urban legend. It was *always* "Not my company, but another company in my training battalion..." level. LOL
I wonder if Mythbusters ever tested the buffer cord myth on Buster?
@@wallaroo1295 yeah, stress cards are bullshit. When I went to basic, Mfs would make jokes about it but nobody was ever actually given a “stress card.” It was a load of bullshit
@@sovietelmo3000 The only thing I can come up with, is something a Good Idea Fairy Chaplain would try - some third party "Check your Stress" civilian thing from the time, some training battalion tried it, and the Military Legend grew from there. Who knows for sure - at this point though, it is most definitely in the Legend category.
There is no stress card or timeout in war, numb nuts
The torture you're referring to is called a blanket party. And it happens in basic training. I was in the USAF in early 1980 and this sort of thing happened at my boot camp.
Good thing I'm not in boot camp or I'll kill every single one of my comrades, leave me alone and there will be no bloodbath
Would you consider that hazing or you know torture?
@@camrenmugabe3062 I'd call it retaliation or payback. When one guy causes 49 other guys pain and disgrace for weeks, guys get fed up with that.
@@therealstubot Thank you for the clarification.
@@therealstubot It's torture and bullying, there's no two ways about it. In normal jobs it would land you with the sack and possibly even jail time. If the person isn't up to the job, fire them. There's never an excuse for physical and mental abuse.
We're meant to feel sympathy for Pyle, having been put into a situation that he was incapable of dealing with, but I also feel some sympathy for Hartman. Not once did I ever get the feeling that his tactics or behavior were giving him any sense of pleasure or enjoyment. He was given a very difficult job to do and took the responsibility very seriously. He had neither the time nor the personal tools to deal with Pyle the way that Joker was able to do so he allowed Joker to try to do the job for him. Some might see Pyle's killing of him as some form of justice but to me they were both casualties of war.
The other problem is Pyle didn't willingly join
duh
You are absolutely insane. Hartman had no reason whatsoever to abuse Lawrence.
Hartman was part of the military that demanded him to deliver 'killing machines' (not 'thinking soldiers') as they have to act on (learned) 'instinct'. In a sense, Hartman was a victim of that mentality as well - if he had dismissed Pyle, he would have 'failed' and been reprimanded. So, the Army/Marines rather cracks recruits past their breaking point than realise maybe some people are truly not a good match - maybe put him in supplies where he might do a better (great?) job?
However, with a sociopath like McNamara, cranking out his 'optimized' Army, he figured even low-IQ recruits could win the war for him and his incompetent boss. Not to dismiss the Army's inane doctrine - they were still training for WWII - making it way too easy for the Communists to send them home in a bag.
So it was a top-down issue - Hartman was just a insignificant cog in it - and obviously failed, but that is where the system broke down.
@@MrCmon113 It was Hartmans job to prepare them for war, I would rather have a drill instructor abuse me because I'm weak to prepare me for whats to come instead of treat me with softness and gentleness just for me to get slaughtered.
When I originally saw this film i was shocked and disturbed at the boot camp segment. After i went through army basic training i identified with the Marine drill instructor and had an appreciation for the process. The benefits of transformation from civilian to soldier (or Marine) cannot be overestimated. That today's standards are lower and basic training has been defanged is ripping off recruits from that transformation.
I've noticed that more and more now. My uncle went through bootcamp during Nam man is an absolute asskicker. I'm thankful for having some amazing RDCs build me up to be tougher, stronger and more humble. The new batch of kids coming from bootcamp seem softer and expect more.
I agree a kid I was friends with went to Paris island and I thought he’d come back a man but still a whiny little manipulative beyotch scared of everyone that stepped toward him . Saddest part was playing basketball man after ten minutes he was winded and needed a break I’m a smoker for crying out loud and was in disbelief. Times have changed for sure . It’s still boot camp but it’s not what the greatest generations went through. Dude got himself kicked out of the corp and then the army took him he completed they’re basic also in fort sill Oklahoma and then went awol. Yet he runs around with his cat card and talks about himself to chicks like he’s gi joe lol it’s right there with stolen valor in my book. Pisses me off I wanted in to serve badly but flat feet and a arrest ruined it . But yeah the intensity has been turned down a few notches for sure
Maybe because we’re not going to war.
@@Nephalem2002 doesn't matter. Still need to be ready for battle and any enemies that may try to take you life aka end your living subscription. I still train, still workout, still stay aware of my surroundings. I hate having my back turned on the door when I eat at a restaurant or pub.
@@stormking3755 that last part was very boot
Very insightful. I believe everyone will face some form of adversity that will change their core at some point in their life. As one goes through these experiences, get older, and gain wisdom we realize how important it is to learn from these experiences to change us for the better, no matter how horrible they are. It becomes especially tragic when you see this pattern repeat and you see innocent, good people change for the worse due to hard life experiences.
Retired combat soldier, here. I practised my art well. A couple of weeks ago, I found a bird, frozen on the road. I brought it home and nursed it, all weekend, until it died. I can assure you that the Army changes you. It does things that cannot be done in any other environment. However, the reality of taking lives makes you better at saving lives. Those things that aren't out there to kill you........ you just feel a responsibility to save. I can't talk for all of us, but that's how I ended up. It may just be me...I don't know. I know that my humanity was strengthened when I learned how to end someone.
Well said Marty. I live inner city, can be a rough place. I was asked why I grab my med bag, glove up and get emergency services to the degenerates of society. My answer always has been, wouldn't you want someone to help you?
@@Pd-17 Great work, Mate. If society could only look at all the great examples of selflessness and try to reflect them, things would be different. My best wishes go with you, every time you step out the door. Take care.
I’m glad you were able to retire from your profession. If I may ask, what sorts of changes did you notice about yourself?
@@Will-ud4wr Ummmm.....Many, I guess. I wake up to any flickering lights and fireworks, even at a distance. I've become a bit emotionally detached, but extremely emotional, at times. I value life so much more than I can say. Any life...period. I work very hard to be understanding of peoples circumstances and cultural differences. Violence is a huge no. And, number one....the smell of death does weird things to me.
The bird died though
When I found out about McNamara’s Morons, first thing I thought of was the Private Pyle character. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_100,000
Precisely. No analysis of FMJ is possible without reference to Project 100,000. As well R Lee Ermey relates the pressure Marine trainers were under to turn out riflemen at the height of the war with swollen training cadres and compressed schedules with the resulting abuse meted out on the recruits.
It feels weird knowing that had I lived back then, I likely would have been one of them. This is exactly why I'm not going to join the military anymore.
McNamara's morons is truly a sick idea that was adopted by the US government, the underlying reason for it was not to give hope and purpose to men from poor backgrounds. The program was used because McNamara knew the outrage of poor soldiers being killed at high rates would be minal as compared to soldiers being killed from middle-class families. (Pure evil) However these low IQ soldiers proved useless in battle and America completely stopped the idea of a draft army.
another example why the vietnam war was a disaster on all fronts.
It's more about Forrest Gump, but yeah, Pyle fits perfectly
Arguably the best opening of a feature film. R Lee Ermy's performance is absolute genius.
During the Vietnam war the need for manpower in the combat branches of the armed services made it necessary for the Army and Marine Corps to lower its enlistment standards. The Gomer Pyle character portrayed here symbolizes those recruits. As an Army recruit myself during that period I saw many enlisted men who were mentally deficient. Further, often times young criminals were given the option of jail time or military service. You didn’t have to be smart to be in the Infantry. You just had to obey orders and be able to pull a trigger.
When Hartman left it to the rest of the guys to sort out Gomer Pyle. That was him pushing them to become one single unit and pull everyone to achieve their goals.
I saw thar as a strategy Hartman used to motivate everyone and have the slackers feel the pressure, when even their closest budies starts to get annoyed with them for under performing.
The whole point of their training is to create soldiers not teddy bears
They used similar methods in the waffen SS if the recruit wanted to leave. Germany needed every recruit at that point and either the whole unit graduated, or a failing recruit would be pushed to suicide through acts more evil than those done to Pyle.
@@taterater1052 LOL
Is that what they tell you in school now?
Well here's the truth: Punishment exercises were entirely BANNED under the Reich. Banned.
So take your misinformation and propaganda and shove it.
@@Aqueox all they do is lie these days but everyone just eats it up sad isn't it
@@Aqueox That is complete and utter bullshit.
@@margotpreston Prove it. You won't.
I feel for the dude in saving private Ryan, no-one knows how they would react in the situation he was in. Fear is an all encompassing emotion, paralyzing one minute and not the next. Unless you have been in combat you don't understand how powerful fear can be, both crippling and a powerful driving force.
My first time seeing this movie was on parris Island on Christmas when I was in bootcamp. Great movie. I had it tough in training as I wasn't use to the new environment. Over time I adapted but not without sacrifice. We all have to give something up in order to gain something.
We had someone very similar to Pyle when I went to Army Basic Training for Infantry. He was by all means a child in a grown man's body. He flagged us with live rounds so many times it was horrifying. He eventually got kicked out, but it made me think, how on Earth could a recruiter look at this guy, Listen to him and think "yeah, he'll fit in"? I get that the infantry doesn't require the smartest, but it does require a functional brain, that of which this dude did not have. It was messed up.
The U.S. Army following a Defense Dept change of policy actively sought to enlist sub-normal intelligence recruits to increase the numbers during the Vietnam War. There's a good documentary on this on TH-cam. The soldiers who served with some of these guys say there's no way they could've survived in combat.
When I was working a job where the supervisor was a retired Marine, in a matter of days I began to be treated like crap. I asked another employee also USMC-retired, what do they do in the Corp when they don't like someone? His answer was immediate, no hesitation, "Target him as a scapegoat, drive him out, and use it to build cohesion in the unit."
Your videos about Full Metal Jacket are beautiful and perceptive. Great work. Another part of the movie that supports your thesis about Gomer Pyle is the section of the movie where Joker remarks that the commanders are pleased that the recruits are moving "beyond their control," and that "the Marine Corps doesn't want robots. It wants killers." That's what Pyle becomes in the end- a killer beyond control. Your observations about Pyle's fundamental nature being changed reminds me of another Kubrick film- A Clockwork Orange, which also deals with fundamental change in a person ending in disaster. Great analysis.
To be fair to the guy in Saving Private Ryan crying on the stairs….. real war is so awful that there’s a pretty good chance that that would be you.
...................shut up......
@@leonotthelion right because shell shock isn’t a thing -_-
pretty sure any normal ass person would probably do something regardless.
You gotta be a special type of person to have a psyychotic episode in the middle of that.
Having survived what the Army calls Basic Training in the late 60s, I can say that it is rough at times. You could have seen a DI as tough and mean as Hartman but striking a recruit was a court martial offense so it didn’t happen too much (I suppose it did happen). After basic I went on to Advanced Infantry Training where the combat training intensified even as half the recruits went to non-combat training. Oddly enough, advanced combat training was less stressful as the men had already be separated from the boys.
Im beginning to think striking a Recruit was more rare than it was percieved. Only glamorized in Hollywood.
I did my time on Parris Island in 1975. Many recruits in my platoon were struck, and outright physical abuse took place as well...such as taking four recruits, having them do bends and thrusts until they were near exhaustion them pouring bleach and ammonia on the closet floor and making them do more. 76 started, only 42 graduated on time. Not going to lie: I made it on time but what I took with me through that and my service changed part of me that took years after discharge to get back. Being sent to do the untold dirty things in Central America didn't help.
@@majorsynthqed7374
I hope the CIA weren't using you to murder innocent civilians.
If they were, could you resist that order?
I heard that soldiers don't have to follow immoral orders or orders against the Geneva Convention on warfare. Is that true?
@@ninelaivz4334 Any military member who refuses an order from a superior can be court martialed. At that point, it is up to the courts to decide the legality of the specific situation. Many such instances are hushed up in militaries around the world, and frankly have been for centuries.
@@majorsynthqed7374
Thanks.
There is a saying in the military "don't be last." This basically means that if you are at the back of the pack in a pack march or run you will draw the ire of your superiors. Be last or not get results to many times then your punishment gets shared with your team. The group punishment either activates the group to help you or in worse case draw their anger. You WILL push up to the front or get results, it saves ypu alot of hassle.
Clockwork Orange, Barry Lyndon, The Shinning and Full Metal Jacket all touched personal transformations. It was kind of the two novellas of Kubrick's career. Everything up to 2001 and everything after.
Well said. The books which Full Metal Jacket and A Clockwork Orange were based on focus on what is essentially brain washing to create or change an individuals behaviour or mindset and the negative consequences involved with the conditioning and treatments.
That’s an excellent observation. All of these films have character transformation as a core theme
For Beginners, the Private Pyle would not have made it in Marine Corp's Recruit Training. No matter the Recruit Depot at San Diego or Parris Island. Some one like that would not have gotten past Receiving let alone Forming. But the video's synopsis is on the mark.
Yeah, that’s what I’ve heard from a lot of people. But for the sake of a story, some unrealistic things need to occur. But it is worth pointing out. And glad you enjoyed 🙏
Not so fast there where plenty of Pyle's in the military back then just look up McNamara's Morons. Robert McNamara lowered the standards to fill the ranks for Vietnam.
@@keithharper1470 Was Pyle really intellectually disabled?
Today that's likely true but at that time they needed bodies or operation bullet shield.
Your comment on how he says "Ow" is spot on. As a parent, a child simply saying "Owie": means it's bad. Broke my heart seeing it again as a 35 year old parent of 3 and when I was like 15 and saw it the first time.
IMO, Hartman committed suicide-by-Pyle. He knew *precisely* what he was doing by viciously antagonizing an armed and very mentally dangerous man who had his loaded rifle leveled right at him. Hartman was deliberately trying to provoke Pyle into shooting and, SURPRISE! it worked. It proved Hartman WAS successful with converting Pyle into a real killer and, it showed that Hartman never failed at his job of creating able killers. Throw in other possible factors such as a measure of Hartman's combat survivor's guilt or, that he knew that he'd never get to die a hero's death in battle.
Interesting idea, although Hartman’s reaction when Pyle actually turns his gun on him sort of causes him to "break character" which makes me think what happened to Pyle was unexpected.
@@LifeIsAStory I sure thought it looked obvious that Pyle had snapped...and, anybody with a weapon, who has possibly snapped, needs to be treated with kid gloves to end the situation. Hartman did the EXACT opposite. I can easily imagine Hartman's superiors saying "WTF did he think he was doing? The crazy SOB."
Yes BUT I think Hartman was confident that he could control the situation. Isn't there a line in there somewhere about the recruits being at the edge?
@@darrelldunn4618 Yeah, I think you're right. Hartman just miscalculated...but, he really should have known there was no reasoning or, demanding compliance from an ARMED head case. A weapon changed everything...literally.
@@Timinator2K10 ::
That makes sense !
Hartman has seen thousands of recruits. He couldn't help but understand / recognize individual personal & character differences of ...
With Hartman's experience, he should have known his "aggressive" training wouldn't work w / Pyle & w / his experience, he could have developed a special "formula" for special recruits.
This is exactly like the conundrum of weather "art imitates life or life imitates art" ::
The real-life ending of Christopher Kyle ( American Sniper ) who took someone, Routh, w / mental issues, to a shooting range & give him a loaded weapon which Routh then used to shoot Kyle & his buddy, Chad Littlefield, killing both.
_( How the Hell did Pyle get into the military in the first place ? )_
For those of you who haven't been, Marine Corps bootcamp is 3 months of some of the best and worst times you will experience up to that point. It's monotonous and interesting, but no matter what it's fucking hilarious. One of the hardest things was not laughing when something went wrong or when someone says something stupid out of nerves. If any young men out there want one hell of an experience, join up.
No thanks. I'd rather not be be a part of the imperialist war machine.
Shipping in November kind of wary to go tbh.
@@fernanwoodson9928 You will do great! Just remember why you are there and never quit. The end is all worth it!
@JP Off-Roading finance 🥶im not a tough guy but im doing what i plan to do for the rest of my life
Im doing BMQ for The Canadian Armed forces to join the Navy, and become a Marine Technician.
The fact that some people wanted to join the us marines because of this movie sickens me...
IMHO - the point of the first part was that they were training the Marines to kill. Pyle was the first one that was successfully, 'trained.' Joker was relatively unchanged through the first section of the film because it was a joke to him. He could use his humor and intelligence to escape the training - he told himself it wasn't real, but he still participated in the blanket party. Of course it was real. Pyle killed the leader of the enemy force (Hartman). He was the only one to become a true Marine. It wouldn't be until the second part that Joker was finally, 'trained.'
Full Metal Jacket isn't a complex film. It's really simple. The modern world will kill you and it will force you to kill others. It is murderous. It is evil. It has been murderous for 100 + years on a scale never before seen in history and there is no way to escape it. Somehow, it is the most intelligent and humored that come to the realization last, while the dimwitted get there first. The imaginative fantasize their way out of this reality for a time. The dull have no choice but to face it. Regardless, you are living in a world filled with monsters.
No.
The world is not evil. US is evil.
US created the monsters out of people, sent them to other side of world to bring hell in there. Remember helicopter gunner? Killing people for fun. Have you seen last scene, when soldier were marching in night, lit by fire. That was refference about nazi poster. Pyle looks like nazi poster "der untermensch". By the way, he is not first Gomer Pyle in movies, look up.
@@yannikoloff7659 just checking in. You're not glorifying Hitler, are you?
@@cherrypepsi2815 well respect where respect is due. sure he was a monster but the man did a lot of difficult crazy shit successfully.
So only the modern world is full of killing? No killing occured in the ancient world? Ok
@@spp6849 like what?
Great video again. I have a slightly different take. Gomer pyle *IS* the everyman exaggerated signifying the normal people not cut out for war but forced into it. not understanding the conflict. In fact the reasons and nature of the conflict is immaterial. Just that the conflict exists. Trying to do well but not really being enough until comprehending the brutality viscerally (the night flogging) of how ugly war is. Stripping you of all joy and innocence. Only then does he become an exemplary soldier. But it is in effect self destructive by nature hence his killing of hartman.
From the perspective of the military sgt hartman isnt even a necessary evil. Hes an instructor. What is a man who shouts to the horrors of war? What is running assault courses to the Vietnamese terrain? What is being hit at night to your friends entrails? Even the night flogging presses on the idea "if you fuck up here where the stakes are low your whole platoon could die in the field" thats the logic of the warrior. Dont allow him to fuck up here. If being soft (jokers initial approach) is successful use it. If hard (night flogging) works use it. Because if he fucks up when the stakes are high you'll wish you cared back in paris island. One no longer can adopt the logic and mentality of a civillian but have to adopt the logic of life and death is in seemingly meaningless things like unlocked footlockers etc. Its an excellent film vert layered
Yes, I definitely see what you’re coming from. I don’t think Hartman really does anything wrong necessarily. The question becomes, what method goes too far? I would say what they did to Pyle is too far but it was a practice in boot camp. Interesting question. Appreciate the comment!
@@LifeIsAStory Well there you go, thats the absurdity of it all. We think that this behaviour is abhorrent, and it is. But if one mentally scarred young man and a dead gunnery sargeant is the cost of 30-40 competent marines. Thats a net win. Look forward to your next vid.
There is one phrase that I have never, never forgotten from bootcamp: "Attention to detail!" Because even the smallest of details, unattended to, can get you killed.
@@LifeIsAStory Look at it another way. Here you have 40 young men unaccustomed to really hard times. Live or die, kill or be killed. The DI's have just 13 weeks to turn them into warriors. Sounds like a long time, but it's not. The first thing they have to do is make them understand that individuals no longer exist. It's all or none.
The foot locker scene is significant though because it's really victim-blaming. He tells Pyle if it weren't for ppl like him who leave their stuff unattended/ unlocked, there would be no thievery in the world.
It's a comment that really doesn't make sense, because everyone knows that thieves steal from locked cars/ houses/ and mug people just walking down the street.
The comment is basically: "If something bad happens to you, then you were asking for it."
I think it's more demoralizing by the Drill Instructor, chipping away at Pyle, and it's also a comment by Kubrick on soldiers and Marines in general and the attitude our country goes into war with. It's a message from the U. S. to the enlisted men.
Man I'm glad I found this channel. I've been binging it all day today at work. Great insights. It's incredible you don't have 10X as many subs
Hartman succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. Pyle arrived as a child and left as a killer with a hard heart
Dr Hartman-Frankenstein
This is a fantastic breakdown of one of my all time favorite films. However, one could consider Joker as the moral good in the flims first half albeit a severely flawed one. If you remember when the platoon punishes Lenard, Joker doesn't want to partake in it at all. He hesitates until Pvt. Cowboy insists he follow through. Had Joker resisted completely, the platoon would have turned on him and beat him with the soap as well. Maybe the term moral good isn't correct in this example but he does accept his role in guiding Private Pile through basic training as one would a child through grade school.
What I find so incredibly fascinating is Piles loss of innocence and transformation. He absolutely becomes the killer Gunney intended but unlike the rest of the cadets he wasn't rebuilt into the soldier he was supposed to be. I often wonder if Lenard would have merely shot himself had Joker and Gunney not become involved.
Addendum- I think Gunney intended on having his recruits punish Pile. This is not a new phenomenon in the military. Although I don't believe it is used today...
12:00 it almost feels like a demon possession. They removed Pyle's soul, and that created a void in him, and in that void a demon of indiscriminate death took hold. Not just a soldier trained to kill, but a thing that worships death, whether that be the death of Hartman's or his own it didn't matter; he just had to kill. He seems so inhuman in that final scene, and the montra he repeats almost sounds like a prayer.
Parts of the movie when they were in basic training were filmed in bassingbourne barracks in the UK....my dad did his basic there in the early 70s....the film the Memphis bell was also filmed there as it was us army airfield in ww2.
When I went through basic we had a guy very similar to Pyle... we were all very calloused, rude and overall just venomous to him bordering on the line of hatred, myself included. This video made me regret how awful we were to that guy. He really just needed some extra help. Thankfully when our drill instructor appointed the “good cop” to help him out he got his shit together and it didn’t end for him like it did for Pyle. I wonder if he’s still in the AF now and again and I hope he’s doing okay and adapted to military life
@@ADDrecords tf are you talking about
@@charmicarmicat2981 what he’s saying is that you’re stupid for enlisting in the first place
I watched the movie when it first came out and I have watched it many times since. But this analysis is really very pointed and enabled me to see the entire movie from a different perspective and better understand why certain scenes come across as they do.
Have you seen rob ager's take on the film? He touches on the similarities between Pyle and Animal Mother.
Jeez this used to be literally the funniest movie I had ever seen now it makes my insides feel sad thanks
That’s what reality will do to ya.
Lol if I say so
I had a buddy that sort of cracked like Pyle did. It was creepy. He caught one of our DI's attention one day, he got about a week or two of "special attention" I'd lean more toward the DI doing it out of malice, but either way, he needed to crack, harden up or completely break out of necessity. It was late 2001 and the "war on terror" was just getting kicked off.
God just the scene of him saying "ow" no audio even, was enough to get me teary eyed it really does feel like youre watching a kid get hit
Stop being hyperbolic
@@marbl3d45 im not
I think you're missing the point of the Paris Island chapter: I was left with the very strong impression that if Vincent D'0nofrio's character hadn't signed up, Hartman would have made a Gomer Pyle from the next weakest trainee in the company; Hartman's method is to always have a scapegoat to bully in order to terrorize the other recruits into compliance. I suspect Marine DIs actually do this.
Every recruit is fucked up. It has nothing to do with bullying or scapegoating, and every recruit has their moment of "pyle-ism" The difference is, you learn and move forward or you dont. PI is a shock to the system but their is more mentally demanding/physically demanding schools in the pipeline, and no matter the level youre at, or what school there is some form of a Pyle.
Training isn’t like this, and hasn’t been for a while, and this kind of outcome isn’t as common as you imagine. Just go talk to a young Marine next time you see one. I work with a lot of Marines from different eras, and all are really great guys, work hard and smart, and are very dependable.
This analysis is awesome, the heart being rejected gives me another way of looking at self induced change
It's not always easy to hold on to the core of who you are, some things, like a war experience, are hard to come back from.
I can’t believe people told me this movie was supposedly a “comedy” but with dark humor. When I watched, I didn’t think any of it was funny and honestly felt bad for the Marines
For idiots is like Swearing=Comedy
You just don't lead 'em as much
I've seen 2 dudes change like that. One was a Mormon and the other was a Singaporean. I still remember the look on their faces when they finally broke. That was 12 years ago. Still haunts me a bit to this day.
This movie is a classic Vietnam War movie, I served in the navy , but can relate to the boot camp scenes, even in navy boot camp was pretty tough in the sixties and seventies, 14 weeks long, in the summer, in San Diego, coming out movie for R.Lee Ermy and Vincent Dinoffrio, great performances by all.......keep on......wiley coyote
Hahaha I was across the fence at the mcrd, we could see y’all smokin and joking laughing at us dumbasses. But we all had to lie in our racks at night wishing we were on one of the jets taking off at the SD airport no?
I served in the Air Force in the 60s and 70s, my basic training wasn't quite as harsh as "Full Metal Jacket" but it wasn't far off. I still remember the flying footlocker and racks. Oh yeah, and the language too.
I liked this analysis a lot. I think many of us are being tested right now with so much polarization in our society as to how they would react if faced with someone who is willing to be violent to support their opinions. I also liked how you brought in the actual story of being reprogrammed in Westworld and how some people can’t accept being reprogrammed.
One final thing, I noticed you said soldier at 8:33 and that only applies to the Army. Marines cringe when they get called soldiers.
7:45 i always thought, after the beatings, it was joker hitting pyles that broke him. like joker was the LAST person who was "good" to him.
For some reason when I watched this piece I starting thinking about “Lord of the Flies”. I think it’s that grinding, remorseless unrelenting journey towards a dissociative state where all trace of civilisation and a moral framework collapses in on itself. It’s captured beautifully in LOTF when in the novel ( can’t remember if this bit is in the film) one of the boys cannot remember his own details which he was able to recount like clockwork at the start of the story. The “system” on the desert island has broken these kids down just as the Marine corps has done in varying ways and to varying degrees to these enlisted men. Still prefer Apocalypse Now, but FMJ is a very very close second.
That’s a great connection. I haven’t read LOTF in so long that it didn’t cross my mind. In terms of forgetting who you are because of the brutal environment, Fury Road has a similar theme in there. And yeah I’m with you, FMJ is second for me.
Just found out about McNamara "project 100000" this totally changes how I look at the movie. Forest Gump also...
As a Marine I feel like I earned my title, and always appreciated being addressed as such by other branches, or civilians. Aside from that I respect all servicemen across the board. If you’ve never been in a situation where someone without an EGA saved your behind consider yourself lucky. For those of us that have when it hits the fan you’re just glad those Sailors, Airmen, and Soldiers are on your side.
My friends dad was a marine. He told me I'd make a good marine because I was about 5 foot 10 and 180something pounds. I saw this movie though and it really turned me off. Got into working instead.
It was pretty much the same when I was in the army. When I was in it some days felt like shit lots of penalistic stuff made to brake boys down but in after I will think it was for the good.
There is no time for deep analysis, brake em and shape em and when one looks around..where in earth is soft gloves used? One will adapt and make it or not and not is one very bad option.
If you ever wondered exactly what a "code red" was in A Few Good Men, watch what Pyle's squad did to "give him the proper motivation". Citizens see it as barbaric but as Colonel Jessup said, "it is an invaluable tool in close infantry training". Ol' Leonard learned quick, though his psych issues turned his focus in the wrong direction. Hartman wasn't training extras in Spandeu Ballet video, he was training kids to become killers so they wouldn't return from 'Nam in a bag with a toe tag.
'Full Metal Jacket' is based directly on the book 'The Short Timers' by 'Gustav Hasford'. The film follows the book very closely.
Generally, yes, but there are significant differences.